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tv   Book Discussion on The Firebrand and the First Lady  CSPAN  March 27, 2016 10:00pm-11:16pm EDT

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>> good evening everyone. good evening. i i'm with the roosevelt house and it's my pleasure to welcome all of you to what is essentially the first of our evening public programs to mark women's history. part of the celebration is the opportunity to have another look or first look at the exhibition
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of the women's suffrage material that we have on view of the stairs. i was going to say to see only through the end of the month we will be announcing an extension but don't deter you. tonight we are going to welcome two extraordinary women who will be speaking about two extraordinary women and it is a pleasure to welcome both of you to the home of eleanor roosevelt to have played such a big role in the courageous and groundbreaking life of activism as the book we are gathered here to discuss the firebrand and the first lady has made clear for the first time, and it's a particular will pleasure to welcome everyone here to the college. she was phi beta kappa of 1933,
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january 1933. she couldn't wait and that is one of the many milestones in the life that we will hear about this evening. as the book shows she played a significant role. it lasted from the 1930s until mrs. roosevelt death in 1962. you will hear about all of us were activism later she was the cofounder of the national organization for women and really an extraordinary life and we will leave the rest of the story to the guests. our guests, patricia is the emeritus of women's studies and human development and family science at the university of georgia and a major chronicler of women's black lives including her book double stitch which won
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the memorial book prize. some of you saw the review at the boat years ago in which some of you remember the author of the notorious high praise for the first lady and knew that nothing was ever easy for polly murray a black woman born in 19 tens. a woman attracted to women and also a poet of memoirs come activists and priests. but her friendship with roosevelt sustained over nearly a quarter century and more than 300 cards and letters helped. it's for the firebrand into the
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first lady a tremendous book that has been 20 years in the making. i think that is what we call the rave and we thank you for your book and for being here today to celebrate its publication in the home of one of your protagonists. in conversations with professor bell scott is nell irvin painter the edwards professor of american history at princeton university and one of the most esteemed historians in recent decades. she's written many books that shaped the understanding of history since she published her first book black migration to kansas after reconstruction in 1976. her most recent book the history of white people was published in 2010 and its influence was immediate and has only been growing.
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i met the professor a few years ago but i'm told authoritatively that it was 19 years ago when she and i, while she is still john but when she delivered the fourth lecture on abraham lincoln at gettysburg college a while ago. since the retirement from princeton has embarked on a post historian career as an acclaimed visual artist got as far as i know has been the cool by only a couple of people i can think about, winston churchill may be and george w. bush, the second acts in american art. you should know that on her website this great historian now identifies herself as the painter formerly known as the historian nell painter.
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that's pretty good and i rehearsed a lot. we were able to bring her here from princeton to the roosevelt house. please welcome professors patricia bell scott and nell irvin painter. [applause] would you like to say something about paulie merry before we start? >> i would like to say how pleased i am to be here at this event hosted by an institution that is part of the alma mater and. she came here in 1928 after having graduated from a small high school in the south and only went to the 11th grade which meant she had to come to
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new york and earned a second high school diploma so that she could be admitted. and if you read her autobiography, what you know is hunter of all the institutions he approached during the weekend here is the one place she found acceptance and encouragement and so she did come to hunter. she had all kinds of financial trouble associated drop out after her sophomore year but she eventually returned and one of the things that she always remembered and would credit hunter for were her relationships one was with a guard who was an english professor. as i was saying to my colleague
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we know her primarily as an activist and the first african-american woman to be ordained but the first thing she wanted to be known as was a writer and she wrote an essay that contained the seeds of the crowd she was abused and she would always be grateful to professor for encouraging her. she also made lifelong friends who with whom she maintained contact with out her -- through her life so it was an important experience to come to hunter so i'm grateful she came because it helped make her who she became.
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hello. nice to see you all. thank you. i have several questions so i will pose these questions to professor bell scott and she will talk to them or ignore them as if she prefers. [laughter] and then as we get to the end, there will be time to ask some questions as well. this is an extraordinary book of extraordinary women. when you think about the times that we are in now and about those women, we want things to get better as they go along. i am not sure that's what's happened but i think that we are in a time that has asked us to keep both times in mind, our own time and their time.
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you worked on this book for a very long time. so i'm going to ask you about your involvement as a writer, as a scholar coming as a person attracted to these women as human beings. if you have any idea of what you would be see finding when you began this project? >> i began with one question which led to several but the first was how is it that the daughter of a grand daughter of a mixed slave from north carolina and a woman whose ancestry and titled her to the daughters of the american revolution, what drew them together? i was very curious about this unlikely friendship so that got
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me started and then i became interested in the relationship long-term. i wanted to know what were the dynamics of this friendship and what did included bring to the relationship and because it was a long relationship i wanted to know how did it change over time i wanted to look at the historical backdrop was not only was i looking at what was happening with each women individually, i was looking at them in historical context so the curtain behind which the story come in behind which the story unfolds that we are looking at the depression, we are looking at world war ii, mccarthy several major
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historical events and historical movements can early civil rights, the beginning of the modern-day more contemporary version of the women's movement. and each of these women had a role to play in all of those movements. in the historical context i was working overtime and then as i continued with the project it occurred to me that it would be useful for me to try to make an assessment about the impact of this friendship for the cause of social justice which was the passion that they shared, the cause of social justice and human rights and so i ended up
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with the questions of what drew these women together in friendship, what was the nature of the friendship of what friendship, what was the chemistry, how did they sustain the relationship and how did it change over time and what significance did have the cause of social justice and human rights. but i'm going to ask the audience how many of you have had a chance to read this book yet? one of the things i learned this despite they came from very different backgrounds and the fact that she was 26 years junior to eleanor roosevelt they had a lot in common, more than you might have imagined. first of all that they were both child orphans committee posts
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lost their parents what they were very young. they were both raised by elderly can. they had some personality to the personality characteristics in common. people are often shocked to hear me say that they were shy because they have seen bigger than life. when you say it when our roosevelt people think of a courageous woman and if you know anything about her, people tend to think that she was a great woman and she was the were both shy. they both had tremendous energy. they would wear out their best friends. however they both suffer from anxiety, feelings of insecurity, they were a people who are overall sense of well-being depended in large measure having what they considered to be meaningful work so the work was
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important for their sense of well-being as well as company with their cherished friends, and that included their dogs. so for eleanor, she had a preference but we knew that there were other areas that she had. and polly had a soft spot so they always had dogs. they were lifelong episcopalians in the think it's important not to discount that commonality in terms of their faith. they were devoted lifelong episcopalians. and even though she had the challenges in the church and left briefly from time to time
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she looked twice because she was upset with the treatment of women and polly was the sixth generation episcopalian so this was an important connection they had. they were both avid readers. they love to write, they love poetry, they love reading poetry out loud to friends. the commonality that isn't apparent when one thinks of them so i was really surprised and interested to learn how much they have in common. i also -- the second question have to do with had to do with how did they sustain this relationship and they sustained it through the letter is primarily, however, they supplemented them with candy, send each other flowers when one
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was sick or feeling low and david get together. it was a dramatic experience because eleanor showed up behind the wheel of the coop. she's the driver. the passengers of the private secretary, a man that she took to be a secret service agent though my research suggested this was probably tommy's husband. eleanor didn't like having secret service around, and so she showed up at this camp which was the first camp for unemployed women. it was sort of a female version
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of the camp however eleanor was determined that unlike the camps for men this particular camp wouldn't be segregated. that was important to her. it was in the bear mountain area of new york she would go periodically unannounced to inspect the camp to see how things are going so she drives up in this convertible coupe, gets out of the car and immediately starts going through the premises. the residents are really excited and they are following her. but polly who is shy and stunned by this unannounced appearance of the first lady and she hasn't been first lady that long is sitting in a corner of the dining area of the camp and
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peering at eleanor behind a newspaper, she's too shy to speak and introduce herself so there isn't a direct interaction but i want to believe that eleanor saw her because eleanor made a practice of counting the number of women of color she saw. she was determined that the camp would be integrated into so she went periodically count and make a note and whenever she thought she saw something that wasn't quite right she would write to the camp director. four years later, she applied to the university of north carolina's graduate school and within weeks of her application, the president franklin roosevelt went to the campus to speak in his address was after the
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midterm elections a wisely anticipated address people were excited. arrangements were made to the speech internationally, and franklin roosevelt had all kinds of praise on the university for its liberalism, for its faith in youth and progressive attitude on all fronts and polly was beside herself because she knew that they didn't accept black students that she but she hoped her application would be accepted anyway, and it was not. when she read the transcript of the president's speech in "the new york times," she was living in harlem at the time she just couldn't sit still so with her trusty typewriter she began a three page single spaced letter which she sent to the president calling him to task for his
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praise of the university's policies that forbid the emission of the students for hiring of black professional staff in any capacity and she sent this to the president as she was getting the letter ready to go she thought they may not make it through. perhaps i would like to send a copy of this which is what she did. now the presidents office forwarded the letter to the office of indication and they responded about a month later but eleanor wrote back promptly over her own signature and in that letter she sent i understand, and i'm paraphrasing but she said i understand your concerns but i want you to do with the greatest change is
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coming and it's best to fight in conservatory ways but don't push too fast. that is the caution don't push too fast. and she was happy to get this letter however, she was not about to accept the advice that she needed to slow down or be more patient so this was more symbolic of the relationship in the early stages when the relationship first began to. she was unwilling to compromise and eleanor roosevelt first lady of the nation feeling very much that her role was to be supportive of her husband's measured approach on the question of civil rights so there was a tension of wanting
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to let go, let's get moving and eleanor saying let's not move too fast. this was 1938. by the time that eleanor and i is guys come and polly is very suspicious and not willing to vote for franklin roosevelt by the time the eleanor is in her final years this tells you a little bit about the dramatic impact of the relationship, she moves from being someone who can never vote for franklin roosevelt who is suspicious of the two-party system to become a registered voting democrat and eleanor moved from taking the position of one who says you don't push too fast and you need to work within the system and you must obey the law that requires segregated seating and accommodations until they've passed. she moved from that position to
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actively supporting civil rights activists who were disobeying the code in the southern south so i can't ever say that she see that she moved to the center. she moved towards the center and eleanor moved from the middle of little to the left so we see them converging politically. so, that was one example of how the relationship changed over time. the question of the impact for the nation i dare to say had it not been for that relationship i don't know if pally -- and this may be too strong but that's my speculation, would have been willing to work within the system that allowed her to work
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to counter the national organization for women she agreed to serve on the commission for the status of women in 1961 where she worked with a group looking at the question of equal rights and then she became someone who decided that it was worth the discomfort to learn to treat to work within the bureaucracies and they always try to hurt. she had a really hard time and the people who were the mainstays of the bureaucracies always found her difficult like for example the naacp. and i think there's another reason we don't know as much about her because often when people write the history of the various movements, they write the history of those organizations which have been at the forefront of the movement so we have nice histories of water
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right and we have the book about thurgood marshall and people who worked within the bureaucracies and there's a tendency to see the institutional leaders is the most important people and hoping is that this will get people interested because i could cover all facets of her life but to open that door. that is a long response. >> i was going to ask you when your story began but i think yo may have answered that. you are thinking about these
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women you thought of as different and it sounds like you brought them together on personal terms less on the sociological trap but more of a psychological likenesses so i'm guessing that when you begin you thought that this was going to be a book about activism and women working together as activists. now that you have finished and you've gotten a warm response would be using this book is doing? >> one of the things i hope the book does is added add to the interest and the fuel to look at women's friendships.
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i think one of the reasons is because the documents have been there. it's not like i found new documents. there is a new archive at the roosevelt historians mentioned this friendship in passing and i felt like it deserved more attention than the previous historians and biographers have given it. it's also been my experience that the women who are as complex and complicated raise such a challenge for us as scholars. i wear the cap of someone that
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has a good grounding in social psychology and other disciplines and it has taken all of that to look at the relationship because paulie is african-american. she was a political radical, she was a woman whose primary infection was with women, she was a religious progressive always a religious progressive. she was and aspiring writer and i think her writing needs to be evaluated. so it was an interdisciplinary and much more complicated story than i had anticipated and
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that's something i would like other historians to consider. >> why do you think it was more competed then you expected? she worked in women's studies and you were part of all of the -- give me the proper title -- so you knew at least on some level that this was going to be a complicated story yet as you were getting into it, you were surprised. is that because of the the way that we grow up in the united states thinking of ourselves and boxes? is it because it's hard to think of a person who is black or is a feminist having so much a psychological i was going to say
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baggage that so much psychology, how's that? >> and yes is the answer to all of that admission to the fact this is a brilliant woman and in sociological terms. data overload she always kept journals so whether she was writing poetry or notes about her life, there was a huge amount of data primary sources when one is trying to access the thinking was at a particular moment in life so there's a huge amount of data.
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also for me even though she was born in 1910 and a i discipline in 1950, there is a difference in the historical moments, so here i am trying not to bias the work by looking only through the lens of my life even though i read and studied mccarthyism, it wasn't until i began to read the entries about her fears that mccarthyism -- i felt like i could just feel it. i remember reading a letter she wrote to a friend where she had learned that members of the fbi
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had been looking for information about her and this was in the 50s and she was just petrified but you know what she did? she was right about this and she knew that very frequently the information in those files were incorrect so she wrote a letter and send a resume in and a recent photograph and in the letter she said i've learned from the librarian at harvard university that you've been looking for information about me. because i know when i've learned from others that the information you have is incorrect -- this may have been shortly after the langston hughes have been called before the committee. these were friends of hers and she said i want you to have the right information.
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she described walking to the post office and biting the postage to send this return receipt signature requested a certified and she describes how her knees almost buckled under when i put the package in the mail box. she was afraid, but she felt this was important for her to do. i just remember mccarthyism felt different. i've always been appalled and upset but it just became personal for me reading her personal experience and of course the director wrote back and said no, we were not looking for you. that may have been some other agency. i've seen the fbi file. you know they had been keeping records since her days at howard
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said he had a they had a nice little file most of which was incorrect as she suspected or one agent would write something and then a couple years later they would say they couldn't verify it. so just the experiences she had that were not accessible to me in a real life sentence because it's before my time was really challenging to me. >> you've spoken more about her than eleanor roosevelt. eleanor roosevelt is a well-known public figure, a woman of enormous importance in the 20th century american history. what did you learn about her that you didn't know before? >> you probably know a whole lot more about roosevelt going into this project then you did about
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murray. i always heard she was a compassionate person and the death of her compassion and of her acceptance of poly really struck me. i asked pauley's friends who saw them together more than anyone held at eleanor deal with paulie because as i said she was a patient and said what she thought and later said to me she could be embarrassingly direct but i credit eleanor roosevelt for hanging in there with her and being unwilling to allow this young woman to lie out
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alone crying in the wilderness. and that was one of the first interview cited. so that gave me a window into eleanor roosevelt's patients with young people, pauline particular, and her willingness to listen. that was the other thing. she appeared to be -- in social psychology we talk about making relationships work and the active listening. you couldn't find a more active listener than eleanor roosevelt. she was the ideal active listener. totally accepting of people wherever they were. so, she really opened her home, she invited paulie up for an overnight stay. she would invite her significant
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other to lunch with eleanor so her openness -- i was also interested in her growth and when i think about this friendship and i've been talking primarily about paulie at the same is true of eleanor in the sense that this friendship was a place of growth for so she moved from being this cautious woman who was trained and socialized to obey the rules, you wait your turn, you work within an institution to be someone willing to fly the route. so i was very impressed with her growth. a couple of times there were a
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couple of instances where it was clear that relationship made it is commissioned -- it was clear discrimination wasn't just an abstract concept so that when people talk about housing discrimination because of what she had heard from paulie because of the experience in new york, you could tell from eleanor's response that this had become personal for her. later on the feminist stuff but the politics being personal. it was clear that it became a personal issue so i was very, very pleased to learn about her compassion from a more personal level, not just from what she did on the political front. so they related to each other as activists and also friends. >> it started out as a confrontation in words.
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pauli referred to it as confrontation by typewriter. and it moved from a confrontation to one where they became allies and began to work around issues together and then it moved particularly after fdr died in 1945 and she was no longer the first lady and was freed freed about the obligation of having to be careful about what she said and advocated because of her responsibility to the administration. they move towards a friendship, a genuine friendship. >> i'm going to ask a question i didn't speak about before so this is going to come out of left field. were there other similar relationships in either woman's life?
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>> i will start with eleanor. pauli wasn't the only african-american friend eleanor had. in fact, the relationship with mary mcleod bethune was better known and she was also close friends with walter wright, the executive secretary of the secretary of the naacp. pauli argued, and i think i agree, that her relationship is different, her relationship was different because unlike me is that he is and mr. white hoover tears of eleanor, pauline was a young upstart and so they wanted things from her. these are institutional leaders. she's president of the college, president of the national council of negro women. walter wright is the executive secretary of the naacp, so in
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their dealings they are thinking about the constituencies of their organizations and their political constituencies. pauli represented no one other than young people like herself. paulie could deliver votes and so she was very brash and apparently they were afraid to go very far because they were always thinking about the political consequences. it was always calculated and associate beauty and i think she was right her relationship was different because in some ways she felt like she had nothing to lose and could speak her mind. there were other young people come african-americans, that eleanor had relationships one, one is harry belafonte.
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they became friends and i don't know if they met at the world fair in brussels may be before they became friends and he still to this day speaks to her as his mentor. i recently heard him speak after as his mentor and she showed him a tremendous amount of compassion when he wanted to buy or rent an apartment in an apartment building in new york city and was denied because he was african-american she was so upset she wrote about it and she said why don't you just come in and move in with me and he said well you know, thank you for the offer but i can't. it would be like running away from the battle. i need to fight this.
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so she had those friendships and i think of to friendships with white two friendships with white women that were really significant. one was with the writer lillian smith who -- to you all know who lillian smith is? a native southerner born in georgia who wrote killers of a dream, strange fruit -- which is perhaps the most known and most important work and was an early ally of martin luther king and black civil rights in the young generation of that era in the 50s and 60s, never left his this house, work and started a literary journal that published one of the first journals dot
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cannot journals but first poems and was an important mentor and a supporter and was one of the persons who read various chapters and was very encouraging so she was important. and was a lesbian. the second person that comes to mind is the history of caroline who taught at harvard. she was a social historian and another person who hasn't gotten her do. social and cultural historian who became a friend of paulie's when she enrolled in howard law school and decided to audit the constitutional history course and they became friends and they were also cofounders, this
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person was a cofounder and they were friends until caroline's death and she also read various segments of the drafts. >> i want to ask one last question before we open and that is what did you learn your self personally? >> one of the things i learned is that history is always with us. pauli is one of those people who carried history around with her so that whenever she was writing letters she was forever writing letters to people she might start the letter by saying today seven years ago, then she will
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tell you what happened and why it's significant in that particular moment. so i found myself taking on that habit. and when i was working on this book, there were several current events happening that reminded me of things they have gone through. there's a case in the book of a virginia sharecropper who was executed and while i was working on the book in my home state, we are not texas where they execute more than anybody else but in georgia, there was a case of troy davis was a man who was executed and the victims that we can't have, jimmy carter had appealed to the parole board, the pope got involved that he was still executed and i can
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remember what they were dealing with the case hell she didn't sleep the night before and i wasn't thinking about it as i was advocating and lobbying to the board to try to get them to grant clemency. i was just one of lots of people around the state and the world but i just had a sense of their presence and eleanor was lobbying in spite of the white house worrying the heck out of franklin trying to get him to intervene or establish a commission which he did not do and she got on the train and wrote down to virginia to ostensibly to speak to a veterans group that then she spoke to the governor privately trying to get him to grant clemency. so, this notion of history being with us in some of and some of the letters could have been written by some of the black
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lives better people. but then because she burned candles at both ends i tried to learn from her life and she always struggled with this issue of activism and wanting to be an artist and by that i mean a writer, poet and also incidentally i didn't mention this but dabbled in photography is as kind of an interesting photographer. and she always said to lillian smith i'm a frustrated writer and i can't get to my work because activism keeps pulling me away. so from studying her life, i worked to try to define my activism because i was a lot like her as a younger woman
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redefining my activism to include writing so i learned that. she worked so hard so her health suffered. so i tried to learn the lesson from that about self-care. i also remember during the period i was trying to study how she dealt with issues of loss and grief with the two that raised her and i remember going back to that passage a couple of times when i was dealing with my own father's passing i found comfort in that so it has been interesting that when i started this book i was 40 something, 41 or something and now i'm 65.
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i will tell everybody i have my medicare card now. [laughter] and i watched myself age and i looked at how she and how eleanor dealt with aging and i learned a lot. they have been my examples to learn from. [applause] now for you to. >> first of all, thank you very much, both of you. you have done something really special for me. i did read the book. and you gave a lot to really talk about both of those women and i just want to say number
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one, it was about roosevelt where she bit off a little ice cream cone. you want to have fun reading this book because there are all of these for you and the fellow in the services said he felt like a man after the first lady that of his ice cream. he was now a person. but i'm going to ask the question that i think you've already answered that in the book you talked about her shoulder to shoulder with byron rustin. every time its history month they throw out all the things he's done but they never mention pauline -- murray.
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you mention she's right there with a strategy shoulder to shoulder. i would like you to tell us again why she is not mentioned. >> i think she isn't mentioned some of it because she is a woman. some of it is because she was one who found the bureaucracies trying so often what she would do is make her contribution and then she would go on to the next thing and what is interesting about that is that people were quite willing to take her contributions, her ideas but not always credit her so that is part of it and i also think that the fact that trying to do deal with her isn't easy because she is so she's brilliant, she's
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complex, she for some people it seems like a conundrum in the sense that she is so radical, so brilliant, but she is in fact i've had people say to me than some of her friends said to me that we were just stunned when she decided to go into the priesthood. they were just stunned. they couldn't figure out. but that had always been there. she had always been devout. i tried to show that some in the book for example when she was working with the case and wrote him regularly she would talk to him about the scripture come as a child she would accompany her
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uncle who was an episcopal priest and he would go from church to church and she would go with him and when the church pianist wasn't available she would play the organ so that had always been there but people would tend not to see that part of her. so i think some of it is her personality. in the end some of it is just sexism. some of it is prejudice against her sexuality so it is a combination of things. and what's interesting you bring up byron rustin, he and polly helped plan that bus ride to the south. we hear about it and about his work as the leader of that but
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she may not get mentioned. >> right behind. yes. >> you mentioned mary macleod here in who first came to the house and ben franklin, eleanor and sarah and the generation before. would you say she laid the groundwork of a friendship between an african-american woman and a like family such as the roosevelt so that she was already well along the path and was able, she was notorious to speak certainly encouraging the higher education of young women that the friendship that mary
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macleod here in paved the way for the relationship? >> i would definitely think so because eleanor did stay at mary macleod even's home and polly whose circumstances were always curious to didn't have during the lifetime never owned a home and so there was never an invitation for eleanor to go and visit her home. paulie always been to eleanor's place and there was never that invitation. i have no doubt eleanor would have gone if polly had invited her no matter what the condition was that polly was a very proud person. but mrs. bethune had middle-class standards of standard of living but yes it was important. i can't remember where it is eleanor writes about how it was
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a major development for her in terms of credibility to seem as if mary bethune as a person when he hugged and kissed her. there was a barrier across there and i'm sure that made it possible for her to have more intimate friendships with other young black people. >> if polly challenged eleanor roosevelt to confront franklin roosevelt on any other issues that were important to the african-american population? i mean do you have documents or letters that show there was a direct connection between eleanor's activism and her confrontation of franklin on these african-american issues?
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she did challenge him on the silence of the issue of lynching and eleanor eventually made a statement about how she was against the lynching. paulie when she graduated from howard at the top of her class like her peers had expected to be up to go to harvard, although is as decorated as she but she wasn't allowed to go because she was female. she didn't correct me ask eleanor she just was told how unfair this was and eleanor leaned on franklin who was a graduate of harvard college to
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inquire him, and he did. it isn't clear to me if you see the letter and i have this, i have an excerpt of it in the book it isn't clear that franklin cared about this as much as eleanor did. ..
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>> >> whether another place with the interactions of one another hard to go between civil rights and human rights? he would begin with the shape the civil rights from the legal issue and eleanor likewise on the human-rights
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struggle but both use the other's language to talk about human rights beginning at home in the same way the first person to ever do an assessment of the human-rights compliance in to did you find this space to go in between everybody else probably the second year of law school i remember, your question makes me think of this item noted is a dancer but 1941
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the second year of law school there was an international student assembly meeting in washington d.c. as students came from all over the world. from allied nations. and to get to spend the night and in the white house. and those working with them. to raise the issues about the allied behavior the other places in the world there are upset about what is happening in india and
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the development the language that you see her speech years later. she corners a white house picnic to convince her not to move forward but they do not back down in the resolutions go forward. they are not approved but the group does stay together because the owner says is an important moment in another
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part of the story addition of civil dialogue. on the nation's state level or institutional. so we begin to see this rehearsal between the two of them and the differences have to do with a group of young radicals yelling human rights. >> one last question.
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>> before i invite you to come upstairs to buy the book can join us for a reception. what did eleanor have been thrilled with this discussion? [laughter] [applause] thanks for enriching the discussion. thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations]
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>> host: hill or the 2 million voters you talk about? >> refers to voters in 17 swing states and republicans won in 2004 but lost 2008 and 2012. and even though they are bill literate -- bellwether county is like north carolina ohio and new hampshire colorado and wisconsin that is an interesting case because they haven't quite one wisconsin yet because of the changes they have a good opportunity. and then to find out who they are because the reason
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why the republicans win through the national level. >>. >> but then did interesting case their only county had a net population loss. oy the challenges are the population at growth the be carrying their native political affiliations. hymnals and county is our people have left with a significant population decrease over the last 30 or 40 years ago center-left didn't have the economic mobility to have that option so you talk about blue-collar workers, they work hard but not
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necessarily high-priced. they work with their hands. for economic liberty and what those particular issues are. in the most republican counties in his closing county was very republican. over the last two presidential elections so one of the reasons they message to the economy by using that alogical philosophical argument free
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markets them aware regulation. that for instance in cincinnati the epa requires them to separate their sewage system is very expensive project they have been doing this around the country as well and they want them separated out. the epa accepted that and then realized they could do a 40 percent less and still hit the goal but they refused to reopen. so people will pay hundreds of dollars a year extra in utility costs. to us because they will not reopen the process. >> so talked-about taking
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money out of your pocket you should know about this. with hundreds of millions of dollars more than it should. but if you talk about that with that economic argument to be much more personal. but that is what obama did in 2018 and 2012. with this fabulous network of people so when you talk about issues like making government work better. to have those ambassadors to say i will be this and i become president. >> that is why people have such an emotional connection
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to have this distain for 2012. >> in with the must win for the presidency. florida. colorado. why is that a special case? >> for instance reagan won in the elections so scott walker was elected 2010. in the state of wisconsin decade added february to show they have saved $5 million over five years.
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that they're able to use that money wisely. en trimming government installations to make things work. >> says scott walker has opened up. that is better than colorado or new hampshire. ed is a key state for both parties because the talks about their reach. if republicans could do that it is feasible to reset and the winning wisconsin would show the strength of the region. >> host: what is your day
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job? >> i am a senior editor i do twice a week podcast on politics and culture and also for the week. >> have video the candidate suggested -- done with you suggested? >> they have done a good job especially but also in texas currently in oklahoma as well. that tend to make me think they're on the right track. and also a purple states but in oklahoma and texas we don't know how he pulls with the swing voters will only work within the republican party primary but the
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organization level is therefore ted cruz. but donald trott is the variable mr. paige is if the republican party was that that 30,000 full level he is at 40,000. does not israeli author a detailed substance to make this work and people are responding to that in the primary. it is interesting to see how that will work out. to see the ground game but if you try to stay at that level to see if you can bring in the people that is an interesting test

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