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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  May 3, 2016 7:09pm-8:01pm EDT

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with this panel? we're all very upset typically the administration does not appreciate implant from those who use it on this side of the diocese but in this case may be they would welcome that and look forward to working with members on both sides of the aisle with additional pressure if i had to go to work every day to deal with united nations i may find other lines of work to deal with what is so ineffective but we thank you for your efforts to make shirts treat
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-- training has done better level at the state department for those that tolerate to take the appropriate action so we're working over the next several weeks we hope you have an opportunity to hear the witnesses on the next panel f we could respond to questions but thank you for your service to your country and for being here today. [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations]
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cemetery has been looking forward to your testimony the we thank you for being here every like to recognize the three witnesses who has very powerful testimony thanks for being here and for that strength to be here today. >> afternoon by an australian diplomat. as i commissioner of human rights of the african section to occupy i had firsthand experience in of human-rights violations including sexual abuse in the peacekeeping a rare man.
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from my experience i know that sexual abuse is vastly under reported from the various stages there are multiple variants and the victims who were minders the other is a higher likelihood they will not go punished and faced stigmatization in retaliation if reported the abuse. in these are for the first responders and have their own fears with their own job security. and from the u.n. personnel
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through those offices through the violations and poses risks in an inherently biased. said char exacerbated air earned one example is the case of one that told the french authorities that it was ongoing and the leadership had not taken any steps to stop it or if they had it is ineffective. it continued through july july 2015 that disclosed themselves but in april 2015 he was suspended and placed under investigation for his disclosure and shirley after i blew the whistle in geneva
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about the abuse and the apparent abuse by the u.n. leadership with respect to the treatment. despite the fact the suspension they exonerated him. and delayed investigation through jiri 2016 it is a habit it had a chilling effect with those peacekeeping missions in the u.s. secretary general has announced sexual abuse is in peacekeeping they do not address the structural barriers nor provide to the institution in the ambassador has referred to the dishonor to not be
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transparent it should apply to the u.s. leadership. many of you heard today should apply to the u.s. leadership they appear to have been committed for military personnel. from the u.n. leadership they are offered immediate protection that is not currently in the case. to address the barriers and with the system live procedures and then i and other personnel. to institute mandatory reporting with the authorities to recognize and address those was a blower
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protections and is to 20 tolerance to meet the high standard of ethics and integrity. from the u.s. state department the nonzero tolerance whose conduct fails to meet the highest standards recognize they're not adequately protected by peacekeepers or u.n. personnel. and as detailed in the recent statement of the appropriations act section seven '04 eight to insure that the next is committed to eradicate sexual abuse and is committed to protecting for retaliation.
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finally my motives is to protect u.n. as an institution and the principles on which to was founded. this is with personal sacrifice i love my job tonight remain hopeful of human-rights i hope my testimony will not impact the mission. thank you. >> thank you and other members of the committee for inviting me today. i served as part of the world campaign to promote a stronger relationship. as the previous witness and that must be cut out with us
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courage of exploitation continues the victims are real and the consequences as well and a 16 year-old girl was allegedly raped by a peacekeeper from the condo in a hotel room with a sickening violation but the trust placed in that peacekeeper in the military that sent him a. hearing those rand as reports it would be natural to withdraw all before more damage skin began but this needs to be balanced against the good condition has played a critical role from the free democratic elections leading to the swearing in of a legitimate president to a successful legislative elections that
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just concluded that peacekeepers have trained children on the avoidance of us the gift left by the warring factions to issue a report that indicated the u.s. peacekeepers are critical to reestablish security so how to support that vital work and elsewhere and that the same time to have meaningful steps to ensure justice for victims. whether france or the world military it must show that new policies to be endorsed by the security council will be implemented that needn't
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and shame a list is groundbreaking for the first time transparency is now at the core that secretary general has suspended payments to the two a contributing countries if there is credible allegations he will repatriate all of them to their home countries where there was evidence of widespread abuse but it was the first. long-overdue there on the right course. even though its doors for the security council the posture that will anchor to send home not only a black eye of the global stage so those widespread persist
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thematic exploitation or abuse the un must say no for deployment until progress is made. the secretary general has the power to do that in the security council must back to about. one year from now to choose to intervene to re a look to the u.n. for employing peacekeepers end of the summer of a chapter in human rights record with the justifiable demands it must hold firm to reject any nation with the systematic abuse there is a severe shortage of well trained troops in the u.n. is
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challenged to equip the troops the responsibility must have other member states in resulted in pledges of 40,000 more people to ensure these pledges materializes to be instrumental to back up the denial for sexual exploitation and abuse and it is shameful to grab the world's attention to polls bin the culture that exist with u.n. peacekeeping the un members to develop and implement solutions to the crisis we have no other
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choice. i'm happy to answer any questions you may have. >> briefly can you share what you are presently not employed? >> i believe my contract was not renewed was the active retaliation. >> you said something we may have missed an opportunity with the last panel to pursue but 70 percent of abuse takes place by civilians that work directly for the detonations? >> that is my and a standing if so i would suggest those measures that are applied should also apply to those
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70 percent as well. >> do you agree with the order of magnitude at the civilian level? >> there definitely cases civilian employees are involved. 70% strikes me as i die will work to figure out how that number was determined but i also agree with with the recommendation that any tools used to investigate charges should also apply. >> we spend a lot of time talking about sovereignty in we should have spent more time looking into well list i may not catch every single one that i could but it appears every single case
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relative to civilians in the impending issue. can you share why that is the case? >> there is the accountability just as there have been and that does need to be addressed. >> weld in the field would visit that would cause them with their own employees working with the united nations to tolerate this to show this is not happening? >> it is the level of
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attention by civilians it is unprecedented because of the horrendous situation so as a contributor to the budget need to insist any employee of the un are subject to the same discipline and dismissal as the troop contributing countries. >> why is it that the case? why isn't the united states has to apply pressure as you prosecute people who work for them with the sexual exploitation? i don't get it. >> so many of the
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appointments are derivative of those 22 place particular employees of the 193 member states sometimes makes it difficult to want the employees to be punished. that isn't an excuse but it is a very wrong way. >> that is the same thing that occurs on the troops side with their own military personnel. >> and to be more specific with the wind to have total control as it is adjudicated jointly for of the
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contributing countries that many that are that backbone could be of price that we have to pay in the security council will figure out how we get more countries into un peacekeeping to make sure they carry out the work to do otherwise is unacceptable >> why does this culture exist? said why is the when reticent to deal with it? >> i hate to say but it reminds me of the child sexual abuse and the catholic church with that realization of the problem there are cover-ups i hope this sudden exposure will result in changes but there needs to be structural changes in terms of
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reporting because you have conflict of interest at multiple levels the a human-rights officers in the field better having to report on their colleagues to the structures are not in place to prevent them from receiving retaliation most of them are on short-term contracts that can be transferred out. . .
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>> i really do. i think there needs to be recognition first and there must be recognition by the un leadership that there are internal problems that have to be fixed including in relation to these abuses that are being committed, but also protection for the staff that report the abuses. bite un staff or by peacekeepers. >> my time is up, are you telling me with theirs's report that came out in 2005 which apparently was somewhat earth shattering at the time, are you telling me that leadership at the united nations is just become aware of this problem? >> know they have not just become aware of this problem. but it has taken them some time to actually act on it. i hope they do not act on it but they must do so.
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>> i think the other challenge is for sure the highest levels of the un have known about this even before 2005. so the issue of whether un officials knew about sexual exploitation, if they they're taking action as a pastor mentioned earlier in her testimony there is ongoing thailand for over a decade with the united nations about sexual exploitations and abuse. but i think it has taken this case to break it open and get this high level commitment. i think the other thing to consider here, un security council, for over one decade on both republican and democratic in ministrations democratic a ministrations have been pushing for increased peacekeeping missions, increasingly complex, larger missions. as a result, when the un comes back and say there are not enough peacekeepers in the system there is a real tension to do we approve larger, more complex missions when we do not
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have enough well-trained, soldiers with appropriate command-and-control to carry out those missions. it is not simply the case of one individual in that un running the operation. the security council is well aware of the situation for over one decade and yet continues to approve larger more complex missions despite the fact that there are not enough troops in the system. it is complex. >> thank you. >> let me think both of you and i listen to your last, in a prepared statement. i can assure you that we take the integrity of our hearings very seriously. we will very much appreciate your being here. we will protect the integrity of our committee process, so thank you for your participation. i looked at the information provided to us by the united nations, at least from the public website. they show one civilian episode
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in 2016, in 2015i did some quick math and they showed 14 which would be about 20%. i do not necessarily believe these are accurate numbers, do not get me wrong, but when you reply to chairman corker about the united nations i'm not sure we are going to get, today the right to numbers. i just do not know that is available to us. we will try. i just have a conversation with my staff and i agree with senator corker, we are going to be asking the first panel some additional questions for the record dealing with the united nations accountability for particularly civilian issues. there are two parts to the united nations responsibility. one, is how they supervise the activities of the participating countries. what they do with the tcc to
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watch their conduct, it's not just a matter of sending them home, it is a matter of of making sure they do not do wrong when they are there. that is is the supervision responsibility which falls with the united nations. yes, we want to take action against countries that are not responding correctly but there should be accountability within the united nations itself. secondly, there needs to be certainly responsibility of the united nations to give clear direction to its civilian workforce as to what is expected, to give them adequate training, to have adequate supervision. again, so that the conduct is clearly understood and zero tolerance is clearly understood. of course if there are violations there is accountability. accountability not accountability. accountability not only removing
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those individuals but holding them responsible for their actions. that may very well require the united nations to have arrangements with the way that it employs its personnel to make sure there is accountability for their activities. i will be asking those types of questions to our first panel in an effort to try to see how we can complete the circle. i think you do raise a very valid points of, it is fine to say the tcc's are not doing what they're doing and they should be removed, and i agree with that. there is also the primary responsibilities with the united nations and those responsible at the united nations for how these missions are deployed and supervised, etc. and how how the civilian personnel are expected to behave and making sure in fact they do carry that out or are held accountable. so, i guess my my point is this, have either one of you seen
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actions taken to deal with what i just said? is there a clear direction given by the united nations on the civilian personnel? is there clear supervision? is there clear training? is there a clearer way of being able to get the information on those who are violating so that they can be removed and held accountable? is there clear line of responsibility and accountability from the united nations to the civilians that are in the countries in which we have the un missions? >> to quick thoughts, first of all think it is important to note that secretary-general did remove the head of the un mission in car when these allegations and charges first came to light. i think that is the type of accountability that was long overdue and necessary. it will hopefully send a signal
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to future military commanders that when missions under their supervision, as you said, they are responsible for making sure that the troops of various contingents are actually performing their duties in an ethical and principled way. if they fail to do that than they need to be dismissed from their job and in the case of central africa republic, that did at kirk. in terms of his civilian employees that are deployed to all of these missions, they receive extensive training on sexual exploitation, and human rights, training, training is not substitute for appropriate supervision of work. so in the case of civilian employees, we need to ensure the people that are at the highest levels within each individual mission are fully responsible for the actions of their employees and at the earliest possible moment that allegations are race of sexual exploitation, that they are reported to the right authorities within the un system and accident and investigations are taking area impact the new immediate
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response teams the un has established make sure that within five-ten days of the actual evidence of crimes related to sexual exploitation and abuse are preserved, it's deployed in the case of both civilian and military employee. so i couldn't agree more. >> we know historically within the military commander has eyes been a challenge particularly colleagues reporting misconduct. we know there are problems and we try to take actions to deal with that. on the civilian side, doctor brown, is there the same type of inherent problems on reporting colleagues misconduct? >> i believe so, yes. yes. i think with the adage, there another problems, for example prosecution would require the lifting of immunity of the staff. also, the way the system is currently constructed it would require the un's office
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seven to investigate and we're talking there about un staff investigating other un staff. there are inherent conflicts of interest within the system that will need to be addressed. >> so with the immunity, their immune from criminal prosecution and the host country question. >> in theory. >> and but i would also like to make it clear that secretary-general, in writing has made it quite clear that no un employee was subject to sexual exploitation and abuse, if you have diplomatic immunity, it will be waived, most civilian employees were deployed as part of the peacekeeping missions actually do not have diplomatic immunity. in either case, the secretary-general and the un team has made it quite clear that diplomatic immunity -- >> knowing the countries in which the peace missions are situated, the capacity there to deal with these type of issues are limited. >> that is correct. going back to the point of the investigation itself, we have an inherent problem because you
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have a un investigative body investigating possibly quite a senior official in the country. you have an inherent conflict of interest there. you still have a conflict of interest in my view with the un office of oversight services investigating a tcc or the disciplining contacted unit investigating it, or even the human rights officer investigating it. when it. when it comes to actually un staff, that conflict of interest is exasperated and that needs to be addressed, along with, if i made the problems inherent with the reporting in the lines itself. there are are multiple barriers to this information moving up the chain. >> will the questions i think i would ask when i as from the united nations, we don't have three people here, is what capacity do they building countries when there un peacekeeping missions to be able to have the capacity to
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prosecute those who violate the laws in those countries on sexual exploitation and abuse? that would be an interesting point to see how the united nations is helping the country be able to hold accountable those who violate these laws. >> or these employees need to be repatriated to their home countries and subject to prosecution at home. there needs to be prosecution either in country which is often a challenge, or back home. >> buffer civilians it may be even more complicated. >> correct, i think so. >> get back to what you're talking about earlier when you have expanding peacekeeping needs that are complex, you you have pressure for more of that to occur, i look at the types of population generally speaking that are being quote protected,
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i mean is there some institutional disrespect for the types of people that these peacekeeping missions are being sent out to protect? is there something something there that we need to understand? >> i think the disrespect that occurs is between individual soldiers and the disrespect as a result of the individual actions are taking, the crimes they are committing as a peacekeeper. but, having visited many different peacekeeping missions around the world, i am honestly shocked by the willingness of these peacekeepers to serve away from their home for sometimes month, sometimes years on and protecting people they do not even know. they are doing it at great personal risk when you look at for instance, the peacekeepers that are battling back terrorist elements, there's
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been dozens of peacekeepers killed, three french were just killed in mali. it's a situation i think most peacekeepers are absolutely committed to civilian protection. we had a wonderful american who is deployed to south's sedan as part of a peace keeping mission and the military showed up at the gate, they demanded he turn over all the young men in the camp and he absolutely refuse. he stood in the gate and he said you may not come it and as a result, the people were saved. of course, for my perspective he is a hero for saving that. i was recently in south sudan, there are 200,000 people today living in these camps that largely all their lives to the fact that we have peacekeepers from around the world regarding these camps, trying to do their best to protect the people inside who would otherwise be killed by
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other elements within the country. it is very complex, i do not think there is a culture where they don't want to protect the people they're supposed to protect. i think this is a case of individual soldiers doing wrong and they need to be punished for it. >> let me ask you this based on what you just said. are we, today in this hearing getting an unbalanced view of this issue? >> no. i do nothing not think so at all. i think what is happened in car and what is happening mali and what is happened from sexual exportation abuse and other countries is absolutely horrific. it gives the entire concept of peace keeping a bad name. this hearing needed to occur, it needs to occur a year from now two years from now. this is not going to be fixed overnight. we need to meet make sure there is bilateral multilateral pressure for your succumbs that ten years from now we are not looking back at the sarah and saying, we worked on this ten years ago. ten years from now it your peacekeeping should be the model for how this is done. i know this is something how
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jane, is looking at. what are the best practices for training and commanding control to make sure, how can we bar for militaries around the world including the united states to make sure that we can work with the countries that are the backbone of peacekeeping to improve their performance. it is a long haul and it will require a lot of bilateral and multilateral pressure, and know the hearing is not unfair. >> let me ask my question again, because the disrespect that i was talking about is that you have the hierarchy at the united nations that have these complex missions as you mentioned and needs more in the way peacekeepers. yet, we are sending out countries that are known to have problems, sorry, where, where is senator isaacson mentioned in many cases rape is certainly an act of war, it is a part of war.
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i was just in the balkans and it's unbelievable to know it and see it and understand and meet women who were dealt with there. in that way it was an act of war, it is part of war. back to the disrespect i am referring to, i'm talking about not the soldiers, talking about at the un level is there a sense, they're so much in the way of need and these populations, so what, is there something there that i am missing? >> i think there was acceptance of this low grade, what was viewed at the time a low-grade ongoing problem and that acceptance extended for years on end, not just by the highest levels within the un but by the un member states including members of the security council. i do not think that acceptance is there any longer. if you look at what is new, as a
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result of what just happened we actually see for the first time ever, military units being repatriated. for. for the first time ever, policy endorsed by the security council say no more units may be deployed if they have attract record of systematic abuse or they refuse to get back to the un us what they have done in terms of discipline, or they refuse to investigate. this is the first time they have done this. this is new. we need to ensure it is in force that units from the congo are not deployed in future peacekeeping methods unless they fundamentally change the way they do method. i think the acceptance of these practices is over. >> if i may, i agree entirely what you said. i would just add that the un has failed, from what i can see to accept that it itself has a problem. that. that is what needs to happen. it needs to be a recognition that in itself, it needs to
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reform itself. it needs to recognize that it does not have the accountability structure internally, most of the measures applied to the tct tcc's do not apply to the un. they must be protected. we have this terrible case which is just sent a chilling message message through the system, that must be rectified otherwise we're going to find that people. >> i want to thank both of our witnesses. this is been very helpful to us. it really starts with the recognition that sexual exploitation and abuse is not acceptable. it has to be carried by the top leaders. it starts with east top leadership with the united nations and it has to be, not just understood in the leadership of the united
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nations, it has to be enforced by everybody in the hierarchy in the united nations. so they understand it is different than it was in the past. it does not mean people in the past did not look at it as serious, but the but the institution did not look at it as serious. that has to change. but it requires a cultural change. without that you will not to get the type of action that we want to see. the action we want to see is that the member countries that are participating in the united nations understand that that cannot be tolerated tolerated and their leadership presses upon their participants that this will not be allowed, and that if you are involved it is going to be very severe. also that you are bringing disrespect to our country's participation and jeopardizing our standing and we are not going to allow that to happen. that is what you're going to have to have for there to be the type of change that we want to see occur.
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so, yes we have seeds of acreage resides. you do mention some of those including the passage of the security council resolution. but we are far from declaring that is still something it's a matter that we are concerned. whether it's clearly being broadcast the way it should. that is something we something we're going to continue to follow. in the meantime i suspect will take additional action in congress. >> we want to thank you both, it it's been a very powerful hearing. i think that your testimony, i hope your testimony is going to end up affecting people and that hopefully thousands of people who would have otherwise been sexually abused, raped, whatever will not have that experience because of people like you who have been willing to testify in this manner. i want to build on what you just
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said, in essence because it united nations has provided peacekeepers that in some cases, and not not in every case are sexually abusing people, our citizens here work hard every day to reserve families and pay taxes. they're basically sending money, sending their hard-earned money to an organization that has been unwilling to deal with a crisis within it. that hates america. it taints the taxpayer money. i hope very soon the leadership of the united nations understand that the american people through their elected representatives are not going to stand for a sending money to an organization
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that is unwilling to deal with this moral depravity that is taking place there by not being willing to own up to a problem and deal with that in an way. again, we thank you. we appreciate very much your time and your travel. the record will remain open to the end of the business and friday and if you could respond fairly promptly for questions, my sense is that you will want to do that. we thank you again. with again. with that, the meeting is adjourned. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible]
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[inaudible] [inaudible] >> recently, campaign 2016 bus made a made a visit to pennsylvania during its primary. stopping at slippery rock university, washington and jefferson college in harrisburg commute ecology. students, and officials learned about our road to the white house. visitors were also able to share their thoughts are with us about the upcoming election. our bus ended the week at warrington, pennsylvania where it visited middle schools to honor 79th graders for their winning videos. a special thank start cable partners for their help in donating this visits. you can view the winning documentaries that
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>> .. eanor >> among iraqis or afghans. the state of the government and we are anxious to meet with you when you asked. >> former ambassador to iraq and the united nations speaks to us this weekend. >> we saw extremist exploited and although we have been corrected toward the end of the period i was there by the surge and by reaching out to the sunni's and building up iraqi forces and establishing a unity government it changed how we
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brought about security. violence was way down but unfortunately when we left and the vacuum was filled by rival regional powers tearing iraq apart the violence escalated and we have isis now. >> sunday on cspan's q&a. tonight, recent biography. former secretary sullivan talks about his new book "breaking ground" and then patricia bell-scott writes about the relationship between eleanor roosevelt and civil rights activist paul polly murray. and we talk about book about general custer. and then finishing with


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