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tv   After Words  CSPAN  October 2, 2016 9:00pm-10:01pm EDT

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next phase of diversity and gender, changes going on in the workplace. the women's issues as well as gay, lesbian issues and now the aging issue in the workplace and getting the best out of all of our employees regardless of how old they are. >> what is your connection to the national book festival? >> i'm excited because when laura bush became the first lady she was the first to ever be in the white house.we so we went to her. i happened to be the chief operating officer at the time to talk about the project might be with her at the national library here in this town and it was established at the national book festival, so here we are 16so ha years later. our goal in 2001 was to have 5,000 people in the last year i
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think they had over 100,000. what we are seeing here on these three floors i fully expect they will exceed the target again but i think it is an exciting time for book lovers and people who enjoy reading. i am pleased to come full circ circle. >> you wrote the department of transportation, library ofenkine congress, chief operating officer how could you get to washington from alabama?? >> a political science major came to washington interns here in washington. very fortunate to be working with a number of people in this
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town. she is the author of this book disrupt living your best life at every age and 50 is the new 50. >> thank you for being on book tv. >> my pleasure. thanks so much for being with us today. i've been looking forward to this. you've written a great book for political junkies.
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>> right at the beginning you helped us set up a theme. there'there is usually an echo m the past. i'm wondering in the current presidential campaign season as you look back you've written about what do you think is most relevant or compared with what is going on? >> guest: that's where it started i and every one of the races you try to figure out what is coming next and when there is so much going on there is so much false information so you go back and look and think maybe this will come next. a bunch of different races we can go through. when andrew jackson ran, he was an outsider and they worry about him being a demagogue because of the television radio star but he was a reality star and there was
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a great birdie investing their hopes and dreams of the electorate because he was a successful general would take democracy off its mark because people would think you could. it's very much playing into that same fear about jackson. but if you go back to 1964, 68, the goldwater movement was very similar and equally successful in may 1968 george wallace is running and playing on the same that donald trump was playing on and he was considered a joke at first and changed the race even though he didn't win changed the conversation in a way obviously donald trump has. so those are three races in the book and it's funny because obviously donald trump is also
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completely his own creator. we've had businessmen in 1940 but never a marketer which is what trump is. >> they said the same thing about those past personalities. >> i think the standard now we can date it back if he wants to, the first television president in 1960 although the race was the beginning of using advertising technique is which was the beginning of the idea thathat a candidate is being sod but even it seems i get a jackson fixation but the reason he got into the race is the
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tennessee democratic republicans wanted a name that people could know at the top of the ticket. nobody votes for tickets now anymore but back then there was a piece of cloth paper so if you were a voter and you saw he was famous but that was the point of tohave a kind of celebrity at te top end of it isn't that the distant from the celebrity donald trump was and i ease in particular with roughly 100% name that other kinds of candidates couldn't have gotten that they might have tried. >> remembering george wallace in the 60s before i read your book i had been making that comparison that he wouldn't think of that identified with the segregationists and the new yorker.
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in both cases, the appeal went beyond the states they came fr from. >> wallace was such a regional candidate. he would say to his audiences with her in virginia, alabama or georgia, he would say they have looked down on us anybody beating from the south and we are not going to let them do it anymore. making a regional identification. identification. so johnson and the democrats for not unhappy because they wouldn't let him do his work in the south and a tie up richard nixon who has to worry about competing votes and it would pin him down but then what got him nervous is in the north, the suburbanites that were worried about the rise in the cities and the populations started to
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listen to the message and if they went in for the full segregation but it got to them through the same similar channels so when the democrats fault of voters in the midwest starting to appeal to wallace they started to get nervous and that is the same way he is playing in precincts that wouldn't have guessed when you first heard him talk. >> host: i realized how long jackson fits into that. i never thought of donald trump is a jacksonian but of course jackson has the war hero, donald trump won by military academy again seeing that similar on the servicsurface but that is only e first populist. before him, there were elites.
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>> guest: in the end of the system and the establishment capitulated so in the end you didn't have to really fight the final battle but in 1824 there is essentially one-party and that is the challenge in 1824 the democratic republicans were basically shot after the war of 1812 so the way the party picked the people was the caucus committee representatives would pick the nominee is because there was only one party, that meant that's who would be the president. jackson and others revolted in the system remember when we all knew the number 2,137 that is the number of delegates passed and it seems for a moment or two you might get those delegates the system is rigged. that's the same thing jackson was saying is people should make the choice.
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they went ahead anyway and nominated william crawford, secretary of state who had a stroke so was feeble and blind and nevertheless they nominated him and that is the last time they had a caucus because basically the point was proven that this was a game for insiders and it was based on the wider pullers, the people playing the marionette and then one of their final thing that's interesting he goes into pennsylvania and basically wins a contest that's close to our primary is now closer than the other contests where he basically becomes the people's candidatpeople'scandidate and tt time they tried to do a version of the same thing. >> that was a low turning point
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that led to what we would call the reagan democrats. in texas the important crucial contest because they had been piecing much of the race and then they faced off in texas. i'm going to pick ronald reagan this time. that was the head of the campaign in texas but he starts off as a democrat and a v-victor a basically gave them the boost
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that allowed them to go on the convention and challenge forward. >> a different region reminds me of jfk and the area that was so important. i should point out your book is not in a chronological order. there is seven parts in which you focus on the thunder of the chapter in flexion point. they broke through in that state. >> guest: he was irritated that he had to. he thought he was doing fine. his poll link to the extent he had good information and he was one of the first to hire a pollster and put him on the payroll and where can. if i get my numbers right there was something like 5,000 from
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1960 and 1980 it was 15,000. >> of course the victory everyone wants to imitate them so all the things he did start in early in the 56th race, hiring pollsters, other candidates have done some of these things before and in the primacy of money of course but in west virginia he's going to west virginia and he thought he was going to do well in the state but the story is a totally hollow victory because he's catholic and framed by the press so here you've got kennedy saying i'm going to go out and prove myself in the primaries in connection with the voters and it's being framed not as proof
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of his talent but simply people vote by their religion and their work republicans voting over just because of his faith. so they got so bad that the kennedy brothers fought on election night because they were talking to the analysts on the show and they called up and said stop it this is a victory for the candidates and the next day he said he won but it's a catholic things of the efforts to build the prestige was completely undercut so they had to go prove they could win in the state where there were no catholics and in fact one woman interviewed at times but of course they would have put it in the constitution. so i think there were four or 5% but there was a bias against the catholics and so by going into west virginia, he originally
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tried to run away from the questions and i don't want to talk about my religion, what's more important to have my policies. midway through he'd realized that wasn't working and addressed it in the way he was in the general election with the famous speech to the baptist ministers but he kind of put away some free and the question in the enclave in wisconsin. >> we were talking earlier about running in iowa and i see parallels it was a game changer remember that? >> guest: as i was thinking this through the podcast must continue even though we are getting new stories for the second volume. we are working on the victory in 2008 and you are right it was an
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inexperienced first-term senator, no executive experience using the primary and caucus process and david axelrod write about this that you built your prestige in the context so people start to see u.s. presidential even though you never had any executive experience in your life at all. it's like winning. >> host: he built up the credibility of course.
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the >> i want to get back to the title. it was newer than we thought it was. i have to say parenthetically you brought back memories when i was 12 or 13-years-old living in middletown ohio i watched the debates on tv but richard nixon came to town and i got to go out there and see him talking to the crowd in a very republican area and i was watching mixin mix inh the crowd and the reporters. do they do the whistle stops like they do? >> guest: i feel like obama
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did one on the way to the convention or i remember being on the obama campaign and the memory is that was the time one of the list .-full-sto the liste was during the primaries because he may be he did it on the way to -- it was when they were taking on hillary clinton for having fabricated the snipers thing together an impromptu phone call while we were on the train to hit that point. i feel like we were going through pennsylvania during the primaries but it's basically a huge gimmick. there is no practical reason i can think of other than you do
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get a chance to touch some of the areas and when truman that i write about in 1948 a lot of it is the fact she was going to these townto bestoned chilling d and he was masterful and had the first research department that would tell him before he came to the town. the important thing to know is x. y. and z. and he would talk about that and think this president from washington where we think they don't care about us he actually knows about us and each rubén was such that the way that he behaved seemed okay and so conjuring that when you go through the area isn't bad even though now everything you do, whether it's in a television
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in new york city paying attention to people who live outside the big cities is still a little something for these days. >> host: speaking of truman declared him to be a loser against dewey he made a larger point i will try to quote you. the elites are not very good about predicting. >> that is one of the constant stories going back to jackson they thought and even his friends thought he was in the race as a way to steal votes to help john quincy adams which in the end they would be in the race decided by the house of representatives. so they got it wrong in 1844 but it was so fun is in the
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september, the pollster basically said nobody has lost it's this far ahead so we are not going to do any more polling. so they didn't -- >> host: how far was that again? >> guest: september. i don't know how far he was of truman did so much he couldn't take the opinion anymore. and then the surveys that were done of the newsman of the day, all of them saying who was going to be in the cabinet and the most fun holding between they were writing about the administration and so forth and so on.
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so it was like we all know about the headline but these columnists had to do something that was even worse to go through the long convoluted arguments so it was like printing o that over sentence after sentence after sentence and there is a great line that said the only question for the press now we are ready to eat whenever you are ready to serve it and palm brokaw said when some of the networks called the race we don't just have egg on our face, we have an entire omelette. >> host: polling is much more primitive.
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>> it was primitive and it was also it didn't get out into the precincts and there was a lot of conventional wisdom thrown into the results which isn't that different from what we do today. even now you can be in the error of arrogance which is what was going on. but with the polling it's going to look like this and the way we measure it at the moment that gives us the most confidence is the way it's going to shape up, but then it doesn't and that's why it's full of surprises us and why there is so much of it. we don't have a crystal ball. >> host: i was struck by one word that pops up repeatedly, the word expectation. we cover that which surprises you good or bad and we often get
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surprised ourselves. >> guest: this is and where we into our finest moment. we cover what surprises us and then write about then the problem is you are building the foundations for the campaign based on the surprise about and inaccurate assessment and so it has nothing to do with the candidates necessarily and you think about there are so many of them in 1972 he wins in iowa but does better than expected and goes on to new hampshire that mcgovern did better than expected and he loses at the end now in 72 he also had a staffer that said. in other words there is something real about the
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campaign expects to do and if they don't meet their market means they are not enthusiastic about the candidate as we all may have thought. we were talking about iowa in 2008 she's got more money and is expected to do well in iowa and comes in third. they were supposed to be the democratic nominee at the front of both of the news magazines best time and "newsweek" have her on the cover and then comes in third with 18% of the vote and that is a huge loss because of where the expectations were. a rise in new hampshire and he
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turns a second-place finish into a launching pad for the presidency. >> host: the term the comeback kid. another chapter in your book will -- >> guest: it's funny because usually someone that gives themselves their own nickname you have to earn a nickname. you have a second-place finish being turned into a great victory with a sleight-of-hand. >> ask people who won new hampshire in 92 and either bill clinton or they don't remember. they got so forgotten after th
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that. the child's schoolyard game it works but it felt like somebody said jeb bush was low-energy. it sounded like nonsense that his shoulders got a little over after that. >> that is the challenge is knowing where helder planned something in the expectation of the country. let's back up, what do marketers do, they introduce them to the need they didn't have before or know they had. i don't know the need to be punched in the face but there is some talent in it and it's one where you realize you want it so there is an art to this and it's not just the fact that something
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people were expecting in the way they wouldn't be expecting a punch in the face or he has the markemarketer skill for doing tt and thinks the electorate nervous is the idea that person can win the presidency basically based on the same kind of sleight-of-hand that goes into marketing and people used to think it's funny when you look at the political analysis before the 1960s where they look to voters and said they make a rational choice they look at the candidates and position and think how can i maximize the value in life for the country or whatever and they do a mass problem and favored the total is, that's how they vote. in the 60s it turned out the emotions played a huge role and projected things on to candidates with their emotional feelings in life that it's not an act of reason, it's an act of emotion and for some people that
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it's frightening. >> host: i'm recalling how at least evincing and eisenhower who had the first tv ad that it was so new -- he said i will not be marketed like a box of soap. he might have changed his mind had he realized how powerful he was for the time. >> guest: they have a picture of nixon on the front with a box of cigarettes marketed like a product and as i say, that started to go way back into the
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chicago ad man, the style of advertising gets moved into the presidential campaign and that is some stuff that hasn't been done yet but it's a great beginning of the story of how candidates were sold like soap and of course we should mention that until about 1840 and then even after that, any candidate that participated themselves let alone even the most high-minded campaign you were not supposed to participate because it showed a lack of virtue for the office and it meant he wanted to elevate yourself and tha herselt why you should want to be president but to help the country. >> host: he neve kina during the
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primaries at all. >> guest: he was smart. when you think about the modern equivalent is only one i can think of with a fantastic example here where literally seized and carried up b. apply the primary where they have to write in the minnesota miracle and there were so many misspellings of eisenhower but nevertheless, they rode in and he won as a result of the popular uprising essentially for him and we haven't really seen anything like that. >> host: there was a campaign going on.
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>> guest: absolutely, right. and they use the join the race credentials which was a campaign of itself that got voters interested in to did everything a campaign would want to do just not working on its behalf and in fact you could imagine if we were -- people get so sick of it they want a rival to be something of a piece of excitement salsa it would benefit that the candidate would have to say anything which is nice because then it won't offend anybody and they have to be in the position of not saying anything when there is a microphone that generates disappointment among the people that are running for president and would say something of substance but if you were not running nobody could be upset
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with you and that was a great complaint is that eisenhower was all things to all people which people could wear their dreams. >> host: when people ask them what do you believe in, republican or democrat and he referred them to their speeches that were wonderful collections that neither side could be offended by. as dewey said, the future is ahead of us. it helped to be a war hero. >> guest: it's really helped and what is interesting as he becomes the commander of nato that is the policy debate at the time and so his military expertise which of course was
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without question but it was a little sticky where there was a debate over whether nato shouldd do this for the communist threat was in europe or asia and in that sense there was a mild downside which this is a part of the story i don't tell and i don't know as well but the last minute when it's clear they are going to lose the convention con there is an emergency sort of draft and one of the things i've been to spend somhad to spend se flirtations over time and then to play on that same stature of course macarthur had a bumpy situation having been fired by truman also in the republican primary that was just fine so that was another story going on.
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>> host: i would be amiss if i didn't ask a little about your self because everyone knows you anyway but say it is an interviewer that his season at this. you mentioned your mom in the buck. for the folks out there that don't remember, tell us about your mother. >> guest: she was the first correspondent for cbs news. there were not very many women at the time and when she was on the air to report from the convention that his back when they meant something and there was excitement and things going on. so she was at cbs for eight years and kept asking. her first job essentially she
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knew all tha the senators and se said to them one of them she worked on before she was ever on the air she helped get the joe mccarthy' centered by the senate and went on face the nation of the broadcast and said they were ever more so because basically it is a kangaroo court that has no legitimacy. but she then worked for cbs and the 1963 went over right before shooting in dallas and john kennedy was killed and had been close to lyndon johnson on the
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hill. when she went over to nbc there was a new president and she was one of the favorite reporters. all this happened much of it before i was born because she left me with everything she had full of everything including the reason i write about it and here is a lot of those old books. she was the pennsylvania senator that was part of the stop goldwater movement trying to get eisenhower to run in the race does a great book about the republican party and the challenge is putting the moderate and conservative wing. it's a great book but it's one
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that he signed back when she was covering him so there's a bunch of those books that i have about senator taft all from her library. he's a longtime campaign manager and the father the congressman. anyway i kept bumping into the history writing this book with the previous one in ten years ago was about her life because so much of it took place i was either not on the planet were old enough to understand what it meant. so i spent a lot of time with her in the process of writing. >> host: in a media saturated
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alan it's interesting to see how a kid responds like gays or her parents to get far from journalism as they can. >> guest: i was actually in both camps. the story with her is that we had a rough relationship about when i was 14 when my parents divorced and i went to live with my dad until i was about 24 contributors on both sides i was no picnic. it's surprising how much i knew.
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we were knitting together the relationship. if you told me i was going to go into the business i would have told you you were crazy so it is a funny kind of facts not only y did i go into the business but after being in print for 25 years i switched over to being in television and working. >> host: what changed your mind on journalism? >> guest: i wanted to tell stories and i sort of only figured this out after she died when i was actually writing her eulogy. i love english literature and american history because a becae epicenter commits the same as this book stories that are not just pleasant to tell us something and illuminate parts of either the human character or the american character or the country as a whole. we pass on the stories and have
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since the beginning of time because they use the entertainment value to tell us something about ourselves and our world. so i love writers like joseph conrad who try to tell a story that got into some essential truth so that's what i wanted to do in studying literature or writing to. it was right before the 92 race and i have always loved politics. i have been a government minder so i was interested in campaigns and governing so then i went to two stories came together i got to meet a longtime columnist for life magazine and tim magazine who had the same way of coveri covering. it's about the stuff we love in american condition and heart of politics and so that just kind
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of got me becoming a reporter. i have about ford's years of covering baseball strike, wall street, the first attack on the world trade center, i covered stories that was basically everything thrown at me. >> guest: i had an amazing number of advantages both in terms of the school and also growing up in this world it was
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the traditions of power and that is intimidating and can make you nervous. when i was a little kid that's what i did. i used to be the one to open up the door at parties and would greet guests. that's helpful because television is distorting and washington politics is distorting so in the one sentence i grew up in that and threw a pretty careful efforts of politics knowing the story is not in washington has been helpful but if you come from the real world but is probably better and in fact when she wrote her autobiography that was
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basically from wisconsin out in the heartland establishing the credential to talk about politics because she had come not from washington that the country now. very quickly she goes to tulsa stories about bears, so it is in the book you see that the tension between the real world and washington. fortunately i've got roots in the country so that helps balance out. >> host: that gets outside of the beltway, doesn't it? they are quite surprised by the way this particular has come a long but every one surprises us. >> guest: having spent so much time covering campaigns and the movement that is now in 92 and 96 i covered him into the tea
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party movement in 2010 was a disappointment slightly different than we would have called it the movement conservatives because there' tha clash between the conservatives these days. these are loose distinctions but if you are in the movement you believe in a set of ideological principles that represent conservatism, smaller governme government. the republican parta republicand to talk about there's a philosophical underpinning and that's the movement you are in. he's not a movement conservative
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by his own admission. as he has said it's not called the conservative party is the everything party into the belief is not at the core of. this is not a conservative and rush limbaugh as a fan of donald trump so he is a populace which nevertheless has people that identified with the party and conservatism. but the more populouthe more poe conservative coalition was out there and we all know that. they mentioned the similarities between pat and donald trump and
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pat feels personally proud being carried forth that the grassroots folks i used to call them that we've got to take them serious now. >> guest: that's what caused barack obama trouble which changed the shape of the health care bill. back to me was something we saw with eric cantor and john boehner getting pushed out of office. we saw this coming. what surprised me is david pick someone like donald trump this is where i may have gotten the populist and the movements even
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though i was aware of the differences because movement conservatives say the central problem with lawmakers which made them so angry if they capitulated and gave been under pressure. so that is the criteria that you stay true to your word. his supporters make the flexibility of all things everywhere a great attribute. if people say the grassroots conservatives would say we want a smaller government but don't touch our security so there was a tension and the desire of the smaller government and affection for its largest program and entitlements.
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this supremacy of staying true to your word was probably my overrating of the conversations i had in the country where people would say if they would behave in private the way that we would like them to get if they would behave in public in a way that didn't degrade the culture, a lot of things that had been said, we want a president that says things out loud that we can be proud of and have kinhas kind of gone away aa way probably overvalued what was being said rather than the way in which they ended up voting. >> host: it's between what we say and think versus what we feel.
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we used to think about it lightly but i think about it seriously now because i look at donald trump and the reason why is it is a sense of empathy because i see the excitement and i am minded of the campaign in 08 and the excitement so many people had back then including myself to give my opinion i was very excited and i could see that we were going to have to changchange on the spotlight frm this book. we have gone hill economically
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-- downhill economically. they just want to get that sense of security again and he is now with the facts. >> guest: over the last several cycles with increasing passion i've want things to go back to the way they were and that iifit is an economic messad cultural message. the pace of change. it brings me right back with pat buchanan in western pennsylvania in a steel town where they were on hard times but the closing down and affect manufacturing changing and automation and all the economic effects had been around for a while that this bua that we grew up with a promise
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that is being taken away from us and we want those back in dc thaand wesee that in places whed trump is working hard where they have been specifically hard hit with closing and changing the economic landscape but we also see it in a kind of nostalgia that takes hold among the people making over $100,000 a year and basically benefiting. so it is both a specific feeling people have their economic situation and one that is much more general that it doesn't have links to people's specific concerns because they are doing okay. >> so many of these things pop up in your telling of history we go back to that jackson period.
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one thing we see is a discontent with the way things are going and resentment towards the elites. he shot it down and caused quite a bit of economic havoc. they just didn't trust those big thinkers. they had good reason to. the economic collapses that have responded to the east coast bankers ruined their lives on the frontier and so why are you doing this to me? you people with your fancy theories that clearly has to be part of this current populism from seven to nine whic a 7209 t of ms. behavior by picking your tv whether it's considerable reserve or washington lawmakers
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or security all of peoples bad decision-making savaged the lives of people's decisions that were not made so when i'm reading about jackson and his feeling about the national bank it feels very modern in terms of the anger of people making economic decisions ruining your life. >> host: the language keeps coming back at different periods of time. what does that say about the american character? >> guest: andrew jackson said by their abuse they shall elect, talking about the writers at the time much in the same way that he uses the traditional media
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and says its benefits and helps him with his constituency. there is a trickiness because there are some people that still trust with "the new york times" writes so what does it say about -- on the one hand it is comforting because they think if the koreans have always been there they will work themselves out as we have seen them work themselves out in the story. there were these moments of crisis and that the corrupt bargain that took place to get him elected that was a crisis moment. people were absolutely outraged
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more so than when the supreme court decided for george bush in bush v. gore. so nation in the public survived and continued so it gives people who end they think if the patterns are the same it will be okay regardless who is elected. the idea that they've been able to work their way out in the past i think what it says about the voters is that basically the passions are always there and always ruling what's happening with an active reason. so that is what leads to the unpredictability because we always have to analyze it in a way that seems logical but then the voters behave in ways that have more to do with their
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internal humor than what is going on in the brain. >> guest: it is a combination. you've mentioned how they could have an impact on the power structure affecting their lives. they have a sense of betrayal in the way they've been treated. >> guest: that is a healthy thing. there were two worries at the beginning of the american experience. it's not always a case that thet the emotions of the voters are
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wrong. that's what they see that they've lost the theme and that is what reagan said that it had gotten off of its mark and he threw a kind of emotional connection to kind of reset things. >> host: when you consider that he was the commercial sport it's like a spokesperson for the goldwater campaign. i remember tha the speech that e played in the political profile. he said he went to bed and was awoken by a call. they raised a great deal of money on that speech to get a
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couple of make america great hats. >> host: people try to get revenge for the 60s still. when people talk about it's really interesting when they talk about wanting to get back to something. there were things pretty good back then. that's the thing that's interesting in the culture it's just open. we were talking about the pace of change has been slow recently. i was standing there with john
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lewis is a part of the exhibit on the steps of the lincoln memorial with a march on washington. you look at the picture of john lewis standing there and he looked for 15 years to get into existence and you think that there is a piece of change. .. >> >>

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