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tv   The New Brooklyn  CSPAN  February 11, 2017 1:15pm-2:08pm EST

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they fell to a was in those rooms. other politicians haven't done that. they've relied on media and meet the press, those don't connect with people as much. i think it's getting back to pounding the pavement and physically interacting with people is where it starts. >> thank thank you so much. i appreciate it. [applause] >> thank you so much. the sign in line will go this way. we have copies at the register. we have all of his book here. >> every weekend book tv brings you 48 hours of nonfiction books and authors. here's what's
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coming up this weekend. tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern john hopkins university professors jennifer and discuss their book, what washington it's wrong looks how unelected government officials regard the american public. >> the correlation between the policies which is much stronger. we think there probably should be a stronger correlation between what the progress he is doing and what the public thinks the progress he should be doing. with like to find ways to make that relationship stronger. >> for many years, i have been annoyed at the various surveys undertaken that seem to be designed to show that ordinary americans don't know anything about government. >> sunday night at 10:00 p.m. eastern april ryan the white house correspondents examines race and police shootings in america from the perspective of african-american mothers in her latest book, at mom's knee. mother send race in black and
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white. >> this book focuses on women because we are the first influencer. for the first teacher. if you look at staff they show that we are also increasingly the number is the head of household and so for ride. there for the talk is now transfigured from a man to a woman and it's not just from a man to a son but a woman to a son and daughter. >> go to for the complete we can schedule. [inaudible] >> hello. here is me, hello everybody. i hope you enjoyed your lunch. we're going to start. good afternoon and welcome.
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i am sarah schneider the program director at the william e simon foundation. i am delighted to introduce today speaker, kay. shortly, i will sit in attention along with all of you she discusses her latest book, the new brooklyn, what it takes to bring a city back. but, let me briefly tell you how i have come to know and admire k. the foundation started supporting k13 years ago. i know that i speak on behalf of the foundation's president, jim pearson and my colleague janice and all of those who cannot join us today and say not supporting k as the william e simon fellow at the manhattan institute continues to be one of the proudest investments that we make each year. a quick overview of k's prolific work. she writes extensively in childhood, family issues, poverty issues, poverty and
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cultural changes in america. she is authored by successful books. she's written for the new york times, the washington post, the wall street journal, the new republic, the new republic, new york new state, public interest, the wilson quarterly and others. she's a highly sought after presenter conferences, television and radio. she sits on the board of national affairs in the future of children. she holds degrees from brandeis and columbia universities. with a resume like that i don't know what she has free time, but she doesn't make it now that she is a doting grandma. there with me for a second as i told quick story. when kay was thinking about what would eventually become her previous book, manning up, i was in the throes of being on the new york singles scene. offhandedly i told her i was told her i was so perplexed by the radio silence was now getting from a fellow that i thought i was getting along with that i was checking the to see if his name popped
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up. [laughter] thankfully his name wasn't there and it's far as i know that's not shown up i wish him well. i did find mr. right. he had all ready work to the manchild phase of life as k had coined in the last book and were currently working on expanding a family for a second time. but more than a year after i mentioned my dating was best the point, case skill to pick up on throwing instances like my obituary story, collect them and weave them into the bigger picture that examines the trend in society and a successful and interesting scholar. [inaudible] too busy to notice or simply
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doesn't want to acknowledge. she knows knows how to identify problem in society, anticipate the future implications and make recommendations on how to best address these treads with the interest of families at the core. she works across many cultures. perhaps some of you could drift off into a daydream when reading or listening to something that is too technical. i promise you won't to that today are anytime you have the pleasure to engage with casework. that's another beautiful aspect of her writing. she seamlessly weaves her recommendations into a story that her audience is interested in. the new brooklyn examines the recent line through crime reduction in college-level americans and what impact that has on the local population. she helps the audience
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understand how this renaissance is not the first of its kind. brooklyn started the farmland and was gentrified once before. this time the changes based on creative destruction rather than traditional industrialization. chapters include research on the split there's bars on one block and shootings on the next. the work ethic of the chinese as sunset park, the change in manufacturing in the navy yards from goods to ideas, the slow, the slow but steady ability of the jamaican population. the ghetto stigmas in east new york and groundswell. the the hipster population williamsburg and the guppies. k uses these examples to steer the conversation toward policies and cultural norms that can foster upward mobility among the urban core. stable stable families, job access, housing, transportation.
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it is a page turner. i'm sure you'll be transported across the river when k takes the podium. before i hand the microphone over to encourage anyone who doesn't have a copy of the book to stop in the back and get one at the endf the luncheon. a very favorable review will be published in the february 5 edition of the new york times book review. as you will learn, anything with the name brooklyn in it is bound to please. >> k will be happy to sign that. please join me in welcoming someone i greatly admire. k heimlich. [applause] >> well, i'm speechless. fortunately i have some notes in front of me. that was much too kind. it is been such a pleasure to work with the simon foundation. in addition to be very generous
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they are just great friends. i feel very warmly toward the entire crew including sarah. in 1982 husband and i bought a house in the park slope neighborhood of brooklyn. when i tell people that these days, new yorkers in particular i get this look in their eyes and it looks a little bit to me like nv. so, i can understand why. in 2010 the statistics grew, nate fisher call that the best neighborhood and all of new york city. it's an amazing place to own a home. i really have to admit to that we don't feel that lucky. lucky is the guy down the street who bought two houses.
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of course in 1982 when i when i tell people i knew i was buying a house in brooklyn they didn't look envious. they looked alarmed. brooklyn was not the kind of place that a jewish girl from suburban philadelphia should aspire to live in. people who could, were leaving for the suburbs not vice versa. there are many moments over the next few years that i wondered what we had been thinking. i think particularly of a moment in 1990 when the mother by younger daughter's classmate had a guy to her head as she exited to trying to do christmas shopping. we took the q train a lot and still do. the story of how brooklyn came to this state repeats what we've heard about the feeling cities and towns of trump country in the rustbelt and appellation. i don't think this up just because i like everyone else can't stop
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talking about the elections, it is real. for about 100 years from the middle of the 19th to the middle of the 20th, glenn was a thriving industrial city. if you you look, by the way each of you have it's a map which unfortunately does not show you where the east river is. i guess you can imagine where it is. if you look you'll see to the left is prospect park. to the left of that is park slope. which is where i live all these years later. anyway. brooklyn was a thriving industrial city. if you think of this waterfront from sunset park to redhook, and going up the coast with me, all the way into the navy yard, williamsburg and greenpoint,
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this part of brooklyn was really where the story was. in the days before their planes and trains and automobiles. we were dependent on both in brooklyn became a center, even of trade even before there were motorboats or anything like that. it was all ships. the waterfront was crawling with bustling peers, warehouses and factories. nearby were a variety of neighborhoods, most of them characterized by a predominantly irish, german, italian jewish immigrant.
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brooklyn had a multitude of coffee, shoe, textile factories, as sugar refineries and dozens of breweries. innovative and entrepreneurs of the 19th and early 20th century. brooklyn invented chiclets, the teddy bear, invented chiclets, the teddy bear, benjamin moore, paints and dominoes sugar. in 1849, you will like this one, a,'s name charles -- one of the many german immigrants who arrived to that time opened the large pharmaceutical companies. you probably know, and revere's company for inventing modern products such as zoloft, lipitor and let's not forget, viagra. over the years, companies like pfizer's employed millions of immigrants and. [inaudible] brooklyn supports and shifted in the second half of the 20
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century. the factories that that had sustained so many americans started to leave, not for china and mexico as is the case today, but for far less crowded and more truck from the american suburbs and excerpts. in 1957 when roger o'malley wrote the heart by taking the beloved baseball team, as they were referred to by locals to los angeles, in retrospect it seemed to foretell the story fate. by the 1960s the waterfront was becoming a set, and teen shell of its former self. in 1966 the baby during world war ii would be commissioned. by the time i moved to park slope about a mile from the navy
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yard was home to a few operating warehouses, but mostly acres of empty buildings and the occasional body that had been reportedly dumped by one of brooklyn's legendary wiseguys. there is still plenty of holdovers at the time. that removed him they removed him from the earlier waves of immigrants. next door neighbor was an elderly irish couple who had once taken in borders in the brownstone areas of brooklyn during the depression in a decades following. there were now being paid by the city of new york to house elderly. many of them sick and moaning. that was the musical accompaniment of my children's early years. hopefully they can't remember it. in fact, brookland was actually losing population. years later, the writer who grew
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up in working-class park slope with say about this time, you heard it over and over and those days. we got a get out of brooklyn. you know it, a lot of people did. so, the question i had had a my mind as i approach this book was, how busy old brooklyn becomes the new brooklyn. the playset gq magazine called that i still can't read this without laughing, the the coolest city on the planet. how is it that what i moved there like it stores have bulletproof cages to protect their case shears and they now have picture windows and free testings of their expansive and expensive pinot noir selections. . .
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and one final question. why should anyone care what happened to brooklyn? the place isn't even a city, it's a borough, it has 2,600,000 people in a city of 8 million, and a country of 330 million. what is the big deal? but i try to show in book is the reason we should be interested is that brooklyn is a microcosm for the vast economic and social changes that' are in our politics and should be mentioned the politics of western europe. over the past 30 or 40 years, advanced economies like that of the united states have been
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shifting away from manufacturing or, to pit crudely, making stuff, towards knowledge, information, or, again to be crude, thinking about stuff. new york city was already becoming the u.s. capital of the economy by the 1960s as corporations centralized and moved their headquarters to downtown and mid-town. bit the end of the '60s, 59% of the new york city labor force was in white collar occupations. this gave new york a real competitive advantage over other fading and industrial cities. most of their people who were white collar, they were predominantly men, who were working downtown, took the 5:15 train to new rochelle just like rob petrie, blade by rick van dyke, the fictional husband of laura petrie, played by mary
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tyler moore who i did want to mention today. but a few of the white collar workers, the more creative types in media. they were general gentrifying. brooklyn heights, cobble hill, park slope, you can trace those on your map. these were all lovely 19th 19th century brownstone neighborhoods that had gone into disrepair. over the next decades the number of white collar worker usen creationed as did the number and variety of white collar jobs in new york. government was expanding and so were colleges and universities, and a long with them jobs for lawyers, administrators and professors. by the 2000s, technology was opening up new occupation fore the educated and creative young, including occupations people had never heard of before.
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the kiln operatears may by gone but the new brooklyn has men thousands of web desirees, app developers and social media consultants. the house next door to me that i referred to earlier is a perfect ill station of the shift from the -- illustration of the shift from the older to the new knowledge economy. i already mentioned that there was an elderly irish couple living there. the house, who like other immigrants who ha bottom here long enough, had a civil service job, had been a postal worker, while his wife had been in charge of the boarders. fast forward 15 years. the house was sold, renovated and subdivided into conned condominiums. the whole deal.
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marble counters and recessed lighting. the first people to move in were people you would have never met told brick brooklyn, an ticket and his wife, a furniture designer and editor and her husband an editor at a music magazine. a wall wall street trader movedn soon after with his wife, a free lance writer, and their three children. same block, same house, old brooklyn, new brooklyn. now, one thing gets forgotten when people talk about gentrification the shrift from the old to new economy, is that this shift brought about very dramatic changes in domestic life and these changes also helped to reverse brooklyn's decline and the decline of many other cities. first, the knowledge jobs in
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media, in design, law and education, were proving especially appealing to educated women, even after they became mothers. while a lot of young knowledge economy workers are drawn back to the suburbs once they start families and begin to take notice of the local public schools' performance, others are unwill thing tolerate the hourly long commute that worked well enough for their own fathers who were often the single bread-winning parent. they want to live where they work, and we should add that it want their kids to be safe where they're living, and that the decline in crime occurred new york and brooklyn, of course in the '90s was a really -- haste ended the general e gentrification that had worked to brooklyn's benefit and all of new york city. second, the second domestic
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change that is worth noting is that the knowledge economy, as the same suggests, demand higher levels of education from workers, as well as early career training and the form of internships and associate positions. that was leading young men and women to delay marriage and parenthood until the were well into their 20s and and 30s. these educated singles who don't need much living space and don't care that butch that their school districts' test scores, gravitated to center cities with everything that they did care about. lots of interesting jobs, bars, clubs, art galleries, and a large population of suitable reman tick partners. -- romantic partners. brooklyn's story is far pinger than the borough sifts. they're shaping cities in most
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advanced economies from london to copenhagen, sydney to philadelphia, vancouver to washington, dc, college educate young singles and professionals are moving into repurposed old factories and warehouses and glassy highrises that might even have a rooftop swimming pool and a gym. gentrification has launched a global esthetic. you can go to almost any western capital now and find a gentrified neighborhood and it will have the same kinds of wine stores, farm to table restaurants, music clubs, and, again, art galleries. to be honest at times for travelers a little interchangeable. so, it's easy enough to poke fun the new class of urban folks, especially those of hipsters with their endless number of
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stocks, signifiers, bike lanes, filament light bulb fixtures, slouchy house and facial hair. engage in that mockery myself. the irresistible changer to tour misses something important. they're bringing innovation back to stagnating cities. in brooklyn we're seeing the creative dynamism that had largely disapple from the borrow but the 1930s. some moved into the buildings built bier early entrepreneurs. the pencil factory has been transformed into the headquarters of the counter-can sourcing web site kick starter. in brooklyn's navy yard where carpenters and builders built
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the battleships, makers are launching high-tech manufacturing ventures. look at the waterfront i mentioned earlier. along the east river and the new york harbor from green point north to sunset bark in the southwest. is this brooklyn's so-called creative crescent where abandoned and underused warehouses are crammed with homes -- with offices for 3d presentser companies, bio tech people. member of the young business people are what i call artist entrepreneurs. with he help of computers found a way to pursue their -- while making a decent living there businesses designing, making and selling clothe, jewelry, soap and stationery, and maps like
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the one in front of you. there are also a stunning number of new businesses that are centered on food, i'm happy to say. restaurants, beer halls, tea shops, come lats, grandknollly and takeout dinners to serve an educated, well-traveled population with an adventurous palate and little time to cook. so, that is the good news. as athey. but the transformation from an old to a new brooklyn, from an industrial to a knowledge economy, and generally-ification itself have not been nearly so kind to the urban working class and the poor. though you would never it from the popular media coverage, almost a quarter of brooklyn lives below the poverty line. a similar number are on food stamps, while 32% have an income
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low enough to qualify for medicaid. in the past, an industrial city like brooklyn could absorb these lower skilled images into large network of manufacturing and port related companies. dirty, tedious, and sometimes dangerous jobs. but you didn't need an education to get one. in places like brooklyn, you didn't even need to speak english or at least brooklyn's idea of english. at tough as the jobs were, they gave a foot up on the ladder to the middle class. the question that i try to explore a bit in this book is whether brooklyn can offer the same foothold to this generation of poor and working class as it did previous generations. it is really one of my central themes. brooklyn today is seeing what is sometimes described as a manufacturing revival but it is unlikely to perform the same services the old manufacturing from the burrows lest educate
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population. traditional smokestack companies acquired workers by the hundreds of thousands. today's technology include sophies tick indicated companies need only a small fraction of that number. president trump needs to take notice. those jobs that do appear in the want-ads tend to require skills not in the repertoire of those in need of work. low-wage service jobs with few benefits and unpredictable hours, wait staff, food presenters, hospital ordinaries earlies and janitor, that's the kind of job mostly available now. now, immigrants often take these jobs if not happily, then eagerly. some 39% of brooklyn's population is foreign-born, something you could forth geoff itch you're just read about the hipsters of brooklyn. like immigrants from previous centuries most arrive very poor.
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along the major of news extra siring the borough from the east river to the atlantic ocean you can find people from pakistan, afghanistan, bangladesh, haiti, trinidad, jamaica to name a few. will they thrive? i profile the two largest immigrant groups in brooklyn into n two very different neighborhoods gentleman maim cathness the seat and the chines of sun e sunset nearby west. and i try to address that question. the chinese are now the largest immigrant group in the burrough, a fact that would stun some folks inch sunset park newly arrived chinese are live four to 0 -- a rom and working in almost feudal conditions and i don't owe exaggerate. the devotion towards chin republic education is so notable
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that newcomers learn the first words, harvard. second ward, stuyvesant. those children look on track to leave their parent's poverty behind. but what i find in the chapter on the jamaicans is the picture is much more ambiguous. in parts of bed sty and brownsville and east new york black offered is entrenched over generation us. i devote a chapter to brownsville, one of most troubled neighborhoods in new york city. that's the history is fascinating. it stared as a jewish ghetto. as blacks escaping the jim crow south moved into the area the jews did not flee at first. brownsville was an experiment in integration. the fame our of that experiment
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and the continuing distress of the neighborhood are well worth funding. that should give you the sense of the book. would sum up this way. 35 years ago, after i moved to what real estate agents like to call transversal park slope. much of brooklyn is pros perking, present a remarkable picture of urban vie tell the as a new, well-fed, educated class takes full advantage of a knowledge-based high-tech economy but in poor and working class immigrant neighborhoods the picture us much cloudier. it's inaccurate to reduce this to a tale of two cities as the mayor has done. there are groups and individuals who will find pathways to the middle class and who are not part of the keynesian inner city. the major task for policymakers and for all of us is to ensure
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that maybe more can move up in the future. thank you very much. [applause] yes? >> okay. thank you. that was terrific. she is happy to take some questions. three rule. wait for the mic, say your name and ask a question, please. >> hi there. >> thank you, kay, that was fabulous. you mentioned policing was a precan be for the transformation. there are other government policies that were necessary or is this really just a spontaneous -- i don't would to use the phrase free market but how would eye ooh cities -- >> so, in my part of brooklyn in the brownsstone areas it was kind of ground -- from the ground up. grassroots. it was people like me moving in and finding ways to rennovate
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their homes. so, that was certainly not planned. however, there's been more planning going on as i think as both city officials and developers began to realize what was happening. is took awhile. -- it took awhile. one thing that the city did in the 'anothers was to -- the '90s was to put a lot of money into the brooklyn navy areas which was a sad shadow of itself. the buildings were in terrible disrepair. the elevators didn't work. nobody could do business there really except for some warehouses. and they decided to upgrade the infrastructure. this was under giuliani and is took awhile by bit the late '90s they were full in part because of this grassroots thing
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happening in williamsburg, and nearby creative communities, where you had lots of young people who were interested in going into the maker business that's call it. so it was a synergy in cases like that. there has been as many of you probably know, some zoning drama in brooklyn, particularly in williamsburg, which i describe a bit. the -- one of the problems that the brooklyn faces -- i think this is true for all of new york city and in fact for cities around the country that are similarly crowded -- is that the zoning makes it impossible to really expand and create more opportunities for more people. look, there are a lot of people who would like to come to new york, and it's very difficult --
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going to be very difficult to do that with the prices that -- for housing as high as they are. >> right here in front. we'll work our way around. >> i work for the new york city journal. a great speech. i've always thought and have argued that brooklyn would have been better off as a separate city and when you talk about she zoning, the other stuff that is holding brooklyn back -- i used to be a neighbor of yours in park slope and would walk across the candle and there was all this warehouses that could have been housing and these idiot neighbors were fighting the developers and people that wanted to live there, and new york zoning santa claus other regulations how much does that hurt brooklyn now? i think its location, either without new new york's laws woud have come back much sooner. it's got a great location. >> john wrote an essay about this which i stumbled across
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which was -- you remember the name of it? >> [inaudible] >> could have been a contender imlove that. and he makes the argument that brooklyn never should have become part of new york city. so we nurture eye -- eye con know classic views here. it's hard to everyone's would find it hard to believe that ninby. would be a problem itch it was new york estimate still a problem. there are very few cities in the united states that actually in thed the advanced questions that it have figured out how to dill with this problem. more people wanting to live in cities than places to house them. there are now waiting times of something like dish think the waiting list in stockholm went
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up by 40%, the waiting time. so, it's true in berlin, true in san francisco, which is, as you probably know, one of the worst places. i think they passed ala in 1960 that no building would be given permit unless it was affordable house, and guess what? there was no building. so, the question i try to deal with or that the way i try to approach this problem is not to simply say more building, more build, more building, because that would be -- that really could relive some of this problem, but i think what we're learning -- i've been thinking about this a lot since the election -- is that people feel a certain attachment to a place and a sense of away of life, and you can't -- we can't completely
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ignore and it pave it over. and where we find the balance between that kind of nostalgia to use a word that member is a little more critical than i mean to be -- and the need for vibrant new city, is a question that i think is probably going to have to be dealt with case-by-case. >> their the front. >> michael myers, new york civil rights coalition. does your book refer to the race wars in brooklyn? i remember the -- when i think this brook brian i think about the brownsville school fights and the crown heights and black and jewish conflicts and remember the black and italian conflicts. and the beat examination -- beatings and the violence on church avenue. the conflict between blacks and koreans. now, all this gentrification has
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is made a transition in terms of racial peace? what is going on there? >> i don't know that brooklyn can be thought of in very different terms than a lot of cities in the united states when it comes to the racial tension. i would say that the kinds of things you're talking about, which are -- i do mention in various chapters, depending on which neighborhood i'm talking about, we haven't seen anything quite like that in brooklyn, and i would expect we wouldn't. think one thing that has happened is that although the black population in brooklyn has remained motioner the same percentage, i think it's 34% over the population -- it's a different demographic. a lot of the black population is now immigrant from the west indies and the caribbean and also from africa.
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i think also there are so many different colors now that some of that black, white, binary, is being broken down and another thing that has happened that i was very interested to discover in a neighborhood like bed-sty which has become in at least if you read the brooklyn press, center of gentrification, when i went to look at it, what found was that, yes there are some white educated newcomers in bed-sty and some of them are buying houses there. which by the way if you have never been there has some of the most beautiful architecture i think in the city. however, what i also found was a lot of black middle class. people -- young people who were just coming back from college, wanted just like my kids do, to
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be in the city, and some of them are starting businesses. it was quite interesting. i spoke to one woman who had again i think to the university of chicago, and she said that when she got to the bed-sty, she couldn't find a decent coffee and she said when you're in law school you live on coffee so the wanted to recreate what the had at chicago and she set up a -- the first four or five dollar coffee place in bed-sty, which was blamed mostly on whites by locals but actually was not. there, are others trends going on that i think are breaking through some of the problems that we had in the past. >> can you tell us more about the decrease of crime in brooklyn?
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you made the statement there was a decrease of crime cry we general the-ification. people who came in didn't want to have the crime. not wanting it doesn't make a decrease in crime because people in the projects don't want crime, either. what there as cause and effect? how did it compare with the decrease in crime generally within the city of new york? >> i think the decrease was very similar across new york, and as many of you in this room know, mcdonald has done very important work on the decline of crime in new york and the policing revolution that seems to have played a big role in that. so that affect its brooklyn. it was interesting to me -- and caught me a built by surprise -- the gentrification of brownston brooklyn start before the climb
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decline. when i was -- enwhy moved there and -- as i've said i was not alone -- there was still significant crime but by the 1990s, we had mayor giuliani and we had a revolution in the way policing was done and by god, that crime really sank over the '90s and there's research that couple out, saying that in fact safer communities, safer neighborhoods, do promote gentrification. so i think the gentrification picked up as crime declined, and i have found rather persuasive on this, large by because of the policing revolution. it was -- also lured in more people once the crime went down, and now you meet people who --
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newcomers in my neighborhood who have no clue what it used to be like and it's very hard. they look at you like; what? between you try explain. >> jim epstein from reason. the book, the invention of brownstone brooklyn, talks a lot about with the early gentrifiers in particular, the striving for authenticity that people were leaving manhattan because the wanted to leave next door to the irish couple like you described do you agree with that and are there any remnants of that, looking for authenticity in the current gentrification wave? >> that's a wonderful book, bill the wimple relied on it quite a built for my chapter on park slope. there's no question that authenticity remains a brooklyn word. it is something that you see thrown around all over the
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place. now, people who wanted to move next to -- into an irish neighborhood because they thought it was authentic, actually -- aim being -- actually really didn't care for the aluminum siding and the laundry in the backyard. so there were tensions from the very, very beginning. and i quote some of the old-timer immigrants. they were not particularly happy with this new group of what the called beet nicks which i love. some professors and lawyers. and those tensions there are and a lot of what the gentrification drama is about has to do with
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the idea that we are changing what is authentic about brooklyn, and turning into it something homogenous. one thing if you read the book that jim is referring to, the people who moved to brooklyn at first really wanted kind of city living in the sense that they wanted to be able to walk places and they didn't like the suburbs. a very conscious revolt against suburban living by this new crowd. it was by the way for me. my husband and i had been living in westchester when we moved to brooklyn itch didn't want to be in the suburbs, and many other people i knew felt the same way. they thought of city living as somehow more authentic.
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s the sub birdies were sterile -- suburbs were too sterile and orderly. the authenticky issue is not only still very much prominent in the discussion but it's a word that has not got then kind of self-examination that it needs because it is leading to a kind of foolishness about what the real park slope is or the real bed-sty is. the real bed-sty is basically what is was like when you moved in. even if it was just two years ago. >> stanley stan goldsteen. ebbsly talk the borough of brooklyn was let by -- why didn't the bronx benefit but
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second, there's an article in the journal about color is better for cities. tall building now helps the bronx. >> well, i have learned two thoughts about that. the original gentrification in brooklyn was -- started in the brownstone areas. people liked the look of those areas. there's not that much of that in the bronx. i think -- i actually don't know this for sure. maybe hunter knows. the crime -- did it come down as fast -- it did. i think it partly had to do with the buildings infrastructure in brooklyn, the neighborhoods where really like neighborhoods in a way that sometimes the case in the bronx but not always. in addition -- correct me imi'm wrong because i don't in the bronx that well.
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my since the housing projects and many of them tallish,-scattered all around the bronx. now, we have in brooklyn many housing projects, and in fact one of the reasons that brownsville, the commune i spoke about earlier that remains in such distress, i believe is because there are so many. it's like the largest concentration of house projects in the country. so, when you have that kind of environment -- built environment, it's not going to attract a lot of new people. so, i'm guessing a little bit or speculating here, that this is part of what has held the bronx back as well. but more generally the housing stock i think is just not as appealing. >> we have time for one more and then i'm volunteering kay to
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stay after to answer anybody we don't get to. >> marshal jaffe other, do do you think presence of stable urban ethnic enclaves like the chinese or italians and -- is that a prerequisite for this kind of urban general gentrification or urbanization. >> not a pre requisite for gentrification but is a prepre-requisite for immigrants to asim lat. -- asim lilt itself done the right way. all of the immigrants who came to the united states -- almost all were who cake toum win to area where their people are and they provided social networks that were absolutely essential
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for finding jobs and how what to make of this strange food. the enclave was an educational institution for newcomers. the problem that we find today, and this is -- i can't give you simple answer anymore that the enclave is a good thing, because it depends on the enclave. there are enclaves where the culture of the particular community is not helping to create the next generation of successful students and citizens. so, what found in -- the jamaicans who are right about -- extremely hard work, very, very committed to owning a home, one of the largest home ownership


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