>> you have for years. [applause]

. >> ladies and gentlemen, brent stevens and dennis prager and our moderator. [applause] [inaudible conversations] and you are both well known to everyone here. let's get with the. so to talk about anti-semitism on college campuses. the movement is based that

israel is is an apartheid country to permeate everything they publish and print even be protective wall the is built referred to as the apartheid wall. i thought it would be worthwhile richard robert goldstone critical of israel on occasion keep in mind he is the individual who is credited to be the person to bring down apartheid from within the south african government. and appointed by nelson mandela and of course, the first prosecutor of the

international criminal court. here is what justice goldstone had to say about the accusation one particularly pernicious issue the is pursuing it and to pursue apartheid policies within and like negative inaccurate slander calculated to retard rather than in the last negotiations i know the cruelty and opponents system event in israel there is no apartheid. nothing comes good to the definition of the israeli arabs they have political

parties in the knesset including on the supreme court. and alongside those jewish patients so to start with you, this movement is not about apartheid then with this and about? >> antisemitism. [applause] >> would you like to elaborate? >> i will rewind and say this just to do disagree with anything on stage he is probably right. and to say this sincerely

and dennis prager is a national treasure. [applause] so now to the subject is a concerted and malevolent effort to single of the jewish state that is uniquely sinister and anybody with that quotation knows anything about israel knows how deeply fall slatting is. thinking of the first child after my wife at given birth

there were rooms with several petitions one was the ultra orthodox family. on the other side was an arab family had done a favor palestinian or israeli they were all taken care of that is the reality of israel. so you might be led to believe were be suckered into the movement thinking is really is a unique the pernicious state with believe in the center and benign population but to

what is scary to me is that with that conventional wisdom for those who know better. i will save this again. with that attempt to travel along liberalism or progressivism. i assume you favor gay-rights and you care about the rights of averages them political minorities and the rule of law? and they should be prosecuted for criminal acts. reassume you care for the

environment and arrogance to the death penalty. if those are your values then to constantly espouse those values to outstrip california in this is the only position is the pro-israel position. so to do with these agreements. and to shut down all debate in that legitimacy of the state of polls that set of values that is indistinguishable pet the attempt to convince your

children or grandchildren should be resistant. [applause] first can you hear me? now? >> guide to radio for a living. no good? i don't know what to say.

how is that? don't look at me. i was wired. at least i know what to do. but he is a complement in himself. [applause] and extraordinary human being. the reason i say yes to a dialogue with him is to hear him say nice things about me and the rest is commentary. so on the level of the medieval bloodline when the jews were accused of killing christian children and to answer that in itself is not worthy of an answer in the moral category of the glove

lying. is only directed to the jewish state my world view is steeped in the belief the jews are the chosen people. it is pure logic and has nothing to do with faith. i don't believe that but i know that because the world has only attempted to obliterate one people. all he trades on earth all hatred of jews is extermination best. there is no parallel to the hatred of jews in inhumanity . enslaved, low-priced but the desire to eliminate a people as unique to the jews that is only divine element in history explains that there

is no secular explanations for the annihilation. i will give you an example provided they did two years ago with this prestigious forum to against to that is how they work. this was the subject at oxford university with 400 students, zero which is a greater obstacle? israel or home loss -- hamas they are age you hating group and acknowledge that with pride that is one of their what clotheshorse and they won the debate. i was only shot would never

was then only one by 100 friends when negative votes. but in any event that hamas is the bigger obstacle is the israeli. he teaches at oxford theatre was a woman who got her ph.d. at berkeley. shocking laugh laugh so that is what she said. this debate is available on you to that israel goes to the palestinians what the nazis due to the jews. first of all, israel's committing genocide against the palestinians is the most effective genocide in the history of genocide. there were more palestinians than ever. is the reverse genocide then

you increase laugh off this was a serious statement. so the issue is not about israel it teaches nothing about israel but the state of the university. the universities in the western world are a moral cesspool if you don't know that you are probably jewish and i say that because they venerate the university so you must enter cognitive dissidence. >> maybe because i am from the university of chicago that when i think of my own appreciation and deism came through the university and taking courses with

diversity of chicago with the intellectual seriousness and through a great scholar. we should be careful but i do agree that the way to have this conversation with respect of israel or israeli policies what it says about liberalism in the country today the people who describe themselves as liberals should travel with a movement at its heart is totalitarian.

hamas is the islamist group that despises when bin and homosexuals out but point do they go desert over proposition day? -- eight but is cool to travel with hamas as a liberation movement? out what point does that distinct and -- distinction become blurred in the imagination of the american progressive so the liberation of a religious totalitarianism should be the perfervid policy of a significant segment of the american left? if you have heard me on previous panels please accept my views i take my shots.

but the american left as a real problem to have the difficulty looking at countries like iran or the palestinian movement to say these are totalitarian countries whose core values are and difficult to my own. even if god forbid we find ourselves on the same side of the issue as texas. beetroot to your liberalism to see what this movement is really about. >> given that this could spread like a contagion

where does this go forward? >> it seems to be getting worse actually. black lives matter is committing genocide but because the notion it is true to be seduced by the name under the guise of wonderful names in the history of the world there is exceptional individuals for example, tariff is no safe space if you don't feel good we will not provide you with plato which is going on across the country.

>> so i ask liberals to distinguish themselves from the left liberals must fight the left it is now regarded only fighting the right. and before i was born harry truman. these were the roles -- liberals if you hold liberal classical positions you are a conservative. for example, i believe there

is only one race. the human race the color of their skin is not as relevant as the color of your shoes. that is the liberal believe but the left believes race is intrinsically significant that is a racist beef. the university of california has listed a list on the internet of macro aggression but it is the racist things that people say better not racist but they are. anyone who only says this the human race and to be a racist statement so things are getting worse.

>> this is not the first massive movement. i remember photographs in 1934 and they are the misfortune. with that historic movement toward the acquisition or a the holocaust, a deerfield this is a passing fad we will go through to seduce young liberals on college campuses? paris that ominous based on the allies that have enormous consequences? >> what we hear all learning

is the postwar period if it became shameful and it no longer be keen dangerous to be jewish but that was historic cleve anomalous. this the thing going on for some time in europe. i began to sense it in brussels having conversations with my european colleagues it is ridiculous that in the suburb of paris but now is widely recognized in be verified extraordinary antisemitism in europe.

and to make that case but it is what we are witnessing is a return. but it is a liberal or a conservative and to be more concerned with the environment. they are normal debates that have been with then liberalism all in above family and of basic liberal values. now moving into new politics

and to be neuralgia like it is my convention -- conviction that trump's politics and a conservative but not liberal and there is a difference between the two. it is easy to mistake democratic liberalism for would never wordy want to use. mattis what animates me with my politics. each have their own justification and it is happening here in the united states and on a bipartisan basis. after the second world war people like william f. buckley and arnold -- and

still center -- solicitor they said they would not write for national review in an effort to show the illiberal side of the movement for mainstream conservatism. arthur schlesinger was doing the same thing on the left and something similar we have for zero new version. and increasingly powerful and influential. >> any thoughts? >> zero lot. [laughter]

. . dune the damage. we had a very wonderful dialogue at a function on this issue. my position in a nutshell was i was -- i wrote a national review and elsewhere against donald trump, but said for my first

article if he is nominated i will vote for him. and hundred he was nominated i did wrote for him and wrote strongly on behalf of voting for him because i said this was my theme when we were together and my theme the whole time. there are two doors and you have to open one door organization one door is it a man eating lyon and the door says perhaps a man eating lyon, i would open the door says rapid man-eating lion and take the risks. so i have a question, and this is a question. really is. i'm very curious. if somebody had schoop you a year--- -- shown you a year ago saying that donald trump will not be the nominee but here is the cabinet of the next american president and it is the cabinet he chose, one year ago would you have said, wow, that is

wonderful, or, that's truly ill liberal? >> i would love it if the cabinet represented the donald p administration. it doesn't. >> i take that as a yes you would have welcomed this cabinet. your point is totally will taken. , there may be a -- >> look. you're blog a little facile which is my point, and we have had this argument months ago, which was that we're nothing dealing with a normal administration. what hanes when steve bannon-certained sometimes the national security counsel. we now have breitbart on the nsc and cabinets matter to the extent they're empower i bed the president to matter. obama had cabinet members he never met with, all right? but the people that mattered to

his administration were people like susan rice and ben rhodes and so on. in the bush administration, condi rice, you know, mattered more than steph hadley, but that's a bit of a false way of thinking about it. what bothers me now is we now have a cabinet that -- excuse me -- an administration or presidency that in the last eight days -- think about this. we're in a giant squabble over the size of the crowds the inauguration, the term "alternative" facts hasboard or vocabulary. the president went before the cia and made an ass of himself and disgraced the organization. we're in a needless and gratuity to us -- excuse me my language -- pissing contest, squabble with mexico and should by our neighbor and our ally, we just issued a holocaust remember

pabst day statement that somehow managed to not mention the jews and reince priebus doubled done on that. he have thousands showing up at airports because of this extraordinary and in my view shameful refugee order, and this is -- i'm missing a few things. and this is in eight days. so, yeah, mattis is great, we all agree mattist is terrific. if he were president i would be even happier, but we have a presidential system and the point i was making throughout the campaign is, we call these people secretaries for a reason. to underline their insignificance in the structure of government. the only person that matters is the president of the president and if you're a conservative you have gone up with the view that character is paramount, and my concern throughout the election was that the character of the

president, and judged by the last eight days, since the presidency began, what do you think about the character of this president? that's the question that i thick we -- think will underline the next four years. [applause] >> i think it's way too soon to pass judgment on -- [applause] -- >> look, talk about -- >> there are a number of things. first i do i believe it's way too soon. he is not any ideal candidate, but number one, there are two separate issues. number one, the thought of another four years of left-wing rule in america i do believe was the end of america as we know it. so, i -- [applause] >> so that dish was far more speaks mystic about four more

years of left-wing rule than i am of four years of donald trump as president. i think that we have enough checks and balances in this country. i am not -- listen. these are passions -- [shouting] >> i don't know what to do. it's on. don't know what else to do. can you hear me now? >> yes. >> all right. don't look at me imhave no control over this. i know that there are passions on the subject and for good reason. we are passionate about america and the world. in each of the cases that bret raced -- raised there's another way to look at it. but not always positive. i want to express, character matters more than anything. that's true in personal life. it is not true about leaders. i wish it were. many years ago i wrote a piece,

like 30 years ago, i wrote a piece called "adultery and politicians." and whereas normally we don't -- we care deeply,ow don't want to be married to someone who is an adulterer, may not want a business associate who andy adulterer, but as president, i couldn't careless, because -- he's not an adulterer. i'm just using that as an example -- [laughter] >> it's very important. the man who -- schlinder, who saved so many jews, was acron yuck adulterer. chronic. and he saved those jews. i have found no relationship between great leadership and great character that i can think of. they're all -- when it's combined it's awesome. generally speaking, it's somewhat in my opinion naive

desire to have a saintly person or even wonderful charactered person lead your country. that doesn't mean they have good values. there are wonderful people on the left who are ruining the united states of america. there are assholes who are saving the united states of america. that is a grownup view of how many life. wish it weren't true. wish every decent person has conservative views and every bad person had left-wing views. it would be verious obvious. there are time, lovely people who are tearing down the country. we cannot survive, we could not have survived four more years of the left and what is the left doing in a nutshell? the united states has a trinity just like christianity, and for that matter judaism. father, son, and holy spirit and in the united states, in got we trust.

the left is undoing all three of those, substituting equality for liberty, and just like the french revolution, wants a godless university as created in our university asks wishes mull toty to all curlism rather than from many one so everything we toad for the left is undoing. if i have a utterly imperfect, even illhill ran map who it the only way to stop that i will choose him. >> we're suppose ted be talking about the middle east. >> i did not raise this isn't. >> i just want to say something briefly. so, my wife is a liberal. i sleep with the enemy regularly. and you know what, you discover when you're married to people whose political views aren't always your own, is that people

first of all are full of surprises, that their views are less -- people who are democrats can also onhold views that on one issue or another or more on the republican side and vice versa and people are more complicated that those labels often suggest and i suspect that tree of every person in the room. no any of you is a purr democrat or purr republican and if you apply dish think dennis is the greaters man ever, but you can't really take serious my what he said -- seriously what he said. [applause] >> because if you applied in your own life, when you sit down to dinner with those neighbors of yours who are lovely people and they're philanthropic but how can they have voted for hillary clinton?

my god. and yet there they are and they're perfectly nice, and the united states would not have collapsed under hillary rodham clinton, have news for you, and i'm a republican. okay? i say that as a republican. i think it's really especially now -- it's rally really important for us to find what binds us together and what we agree on, at least as often as we -- dennis and i could end up shooting each other here for all these trivial differences and hi is a guy i so profoundly admire intellectually and morally and professionally, and i think you probably maybe might -- we'll see the end of this feel the same way about me. >> i do. >> and that's hugely important. let me just get back to the middle east issue for a second. part of the problem with bdf

mirrors something going on in american politics, which is the -- it's simply identifying towards demonization. the middle eastern conflicts, the israeli-palestinian conflict, these are complex things, and at in mini. [unintelligible] -- any anyone intellectual person that israel didn't come into possession of the territories in 1967. israel was faced with the war of anye layings in 1967 who which arar leaders say we're going to wipe out israel, drive the jews into the sea and that's how this so-called occupation began to take shape. then israel tried to return the lands and the found a rejectionist front for more than 25 years. israel has been in the business of trying to return, get out of

the business of occupation, for the last 25 years and unfortunately, time and again, instead of meeting with a willing partner that is prepared to recognize a jewish state in some borders or other it has met with palestineonans who tell you to their face your face they're going to give youhamas -- to a ballot behind your back. if you say, here's the deal. get out of the occupation business and the palestinians will be costa rica, okay? and eave every israeli would take that deal i want to go to costa rica i go. it's not too much to ask the palestinians if you want a state, be lykos extra eureka. it's -- costa rica and it's small and everybody wants to visit.

demand i because tibetans want a state and that's not on the world residents agenda, and -- world's agenda. and so prove to us if you were to get state you would exercise the responsibilities of statehood with -- responsibly. that's what is at issue. so my point simply is that you have this group on campus that likes to make israel the great moral issue of the day. by the way, otherwise eraid eraid -- eradicating other issues and reducing all complexity into the simple fable of black and white and angels as and devil in which the jews are once again and not surprisingly turned into the devils in the story and that's the worrisome thing. so not least among the signs in

which bdf is a symptom of intellectual decline on the live is the grows simplification which is the element that it feeds on. >> okay, we have a little over five minutes left. let's get back to the college campus and the bds movement. is there a counter offense or must the jewish world and the western world in general continue to play defense? >> the is a counter-offense. there are groups on campuses of young people who are trying to fight this. they don't have much support from the departments of jewish studies, i will add the department of jewish steweds at ucla invited -- who wrote roy race matters -- invited cornell west who is a pro bdt israel hater to give it featured

address the department of jewish studies conference on hershel. they invited an israel heighter to give the keynote address and i debated the head of the department of jewish studies at ucla bat eight years ago at ucla and the topic was there is a moral distinction between the israelis and the palestiniansing the head of the department of jewish studies at ucla said, there is no moral difference between the israeli and palestine yaps ump said there was. so, you can't look to the departments of jewish studies, again, always exceptions -- you can't look to them for help in this fight. they are more likely to be allied with people like cornell west, who loathe israel. it's very bad. you don't know how bad it is. not only on cam -- in general this has nothing to do with this specific live but has everything

to do with it, because i don't believe we would have -- we just denver on that -- just differ on that. we wouldn't have another four years for america to come back. one example of what the left is doing you don't know. teachers all over america are told, in elementary school teachers, you may not call your students boys and girls because you cannot imply a gender identity in the kids in your classroom. you must only call them students if you think that's trivial then what i'm saying is a trivia. if you think it's monumental, then we can't survive more of that. these are the crowds that don't like israel is not surprising to me. so, what is happening on the campus is the left has taken over most cam puts, including the -- campuses including the department of jewish studies and

the fight is very difficult for a kid to fight. it's very hard to be a pro-israel student on an american campus today, is to be ostracized. it is unbelievable but it is true. >> one of the -- [applause] >> probably heard this line before but one of the wonderful expressions of henry kissinger, he said one of fights on college campuses so vicious in and answer, because the stakes are so small. and fortunately college is just four years of life. don't disagree with dennis about the miseducation that so many americans are getting. at least if they're so unfortunate to be in the department of jewish studies. firmly giving the lie by the way

to that prejudice that the jews are smart. but there's more to life and more to intellectual life than what is happening on college campuses mitchell -- my guess is most college students are sub limely indifferent to these debates which is a -- actually, it's backed by a fair amount of evidence. if you're jewish and your kid in think of this you think it's the whole world but most college kids are too stoned so to -- to know where these places are much less whose side to be on if think what we're -- the subject this ought to be about, rather than getting into a -- the real core of the question here is what is the character of liberalism? that's what bds -- what the bds movement raises and that's what

all the kind of craziness on campus suggests, which is are we going to be -- i mean this democrat or republican ---we going to be a liberal society and are we going to be able to educate or children and have conversations that reflect in the classical sense of the term "the liberal virtues of openness, discuressiveness, reason and logic? one rein why bds, away from the antisemitic qualities sayings dismaying is what it says about the health of liberalism. it's like a lesion on the body suggesting the cancer below, and i think what both dep nit and are in our own waysdaying and where our deeper agreement and moral sympathies lie is that

we're both engaged in that very fight to save liberalism as it were from itself to make sure that wherever you come out on particular questions of policy, we are able to have the kinds of discussions which join us together. >> agreed. [applause] >> bret, dennis, what trite has been to have you with us. >> our treat. thank you so much. [inaudible conversations]