tv Michael Wolff Fire and Fury CSPAN January 20, 2018 11:00pm-12:16am EST
january historically is a busy month especially relative to fever taste of sales during the holiday season but thanks to michael wolf the last few weeks have seemed well, like a second christmas for many book sellers. given the surgent demanding for mike's book one frequent question is whether there's any presence dense for this sort of frenzy, of course, we've had best sellers before, and seen people standing in long lines for them. and normally we're able to anticipate at least roughly how many books to order. but the velocity and volume of request for fire and fury seem to take everyone by surprise. our -- our event team did have the fore sight weeks ago before the books
release to schedule michael for an author talk. but it was at our new smaller store at the warf could have accommodated only about a fourth of the crowd here this evening. so let's all give a giant round of applause to the terrific staff here at 6 tonight. who -- [applause] they -- they made this spacious venue available and enabled many more people to attend. and while we're at it, let's also clap fornd rei hot and company which faced with a legal threat pressure them not to publish instead rushed out distribution of the book. [applause] but because of all of the attention that michael and his
book has received, i'm going to assume everyone here already knows what is in fire and fury while there's been controversy about the accuracy of some parts and whether they should be taking literally, a number of journalists who have covered this white house have said much in the book rings true and can be taken seriously as further evidence calling into question donald trump's witness to be president. michael himself has a long track record in journalism dating back to the mid-1970s when he worked as a "new york times" copy boy. he's been a columnist for new york magazine, vanity fair, "hollywood reporter," and other publications he's won several magazine awards, and written six previous books. he's edgy reporting and writing style has made him no stranger to controversy. as one "new york times" profile of him put it he's, quote, picked up as many foes as fans during his years as a slashing columnist.
we certainly appreciate him taking time to appear here this evening. they'll be in conversation with john and k part been a member of the washington post editorial board for decades and is a pulitzer prize winning writer. jonathan also host the podcast cape up, and contributes to msnbc. i've watched jonathan moderate before, and he comes very prepared so we should be in for a great discussion, ladies and gentlemen please join me in welcome withing michael wolf and k part. and look what you've done. are you -- i used this really terrific, thank you, thank you all for coming this is great.
okay before i get to the -- how i wanted to start this, i was curious that i mentioned this to michael, this is washington, d.c. a book event for a book that has set this town on fire. and iftion curious i was wondering whom, who's here? were in a did -- at least in part of a democratic city but in terms of power, the house, sthat, and white house are republican -- control sod michael said i would be curious to find out too. so i don't know if anybody how many democratses are here? [applause] okay how many republicans are
here? how many people involved in the political process are here. wow. okay. all right a lot of shy people. okay so my goal on "saturday night live" last week they're called over. the cold open was a morning joe, and fred played you -- [laughter] and the willy character had this. now, michael, there have been several errors pointed out in this book already. do you take responsibility for those? michael wolf -- look, you read it, right? everyone says, yeah. michael wolf says, and you like this -- you had fun.
everyone says, yeah. then michael wolf says, well, what's the problem? you got the gist so shut up. you know, even stuff that's not true, it's true. what's your reaction to that portrayal michael? so now i have to deconstruct -- [inaudible conversations] that's the world we're in now. it's all true. it is literally all true. this book is donald trump in bold. there isn't -- you know i think i have the problem with the berman brothers -- and who i seem to have -- transposed, and to this size, i entirely top two my fault.
but about donald trump this book is as true as it gets. what happens on this book that -- we all thought even i thought writing this i thought we know donald trump. we've -- we've captured this. and it turns out, i think that we haven't, but the story of donald trump is kind of emotional void. we've been sort of circling around, looking into. but not really being able to, to grasp what this thing is. and i think -- i think that's the -- that's the accomplishment of this book. now, during an interview on mscbc with katy because a lot of
people, saying well if you've got pace recordings of these u interviews you should release them with her i believe on a monday or tuesday you said, you said, no. when i interviewerred you on msnbc you backtracked you said you know, i'm kind of thinking about it. but i don't know. but now that we are a week later, a week out where is your head -- in terms of the question of -- i mean i've been doing this for rather long time. and i have always had, you know, i worked like everybody else works -- sometimes you have tapes. sometimes you have note. sometimes you run to the bathroom to scribble what someone has just told you. and -- i never in -- in my career have been askeds for tapes before. so i thought well that's not what we do and what i do is not make tapes what i do is --
write sentences. maybe i'm wrong in a multimedia world this is what has to happen, and when people have requested me this question i thought oh, my god now i have a sound engineer. now i have to get what, how do you do this? but maybe. maybe -- maybe. i mean, there's a lot it becomes somewhat complicated because there's a lot of, i have a lot of people on tape that i can sworn on my life that i would not reveal . you go through this process, in which you make a series of deals and sometimes the deals are -- i will talk to you but if someone asks me if i have talked to you, i will deny it and you have to promise me that you will not contradict that and that's the deem that you make. so i guess i can't --
i mean unless i'm completely immoral which i'm accused of being -- at least i'm not that immoral, and -- [laughter] but on the other hand, you know, i got steve bannon on tape and the bannon tapes are -- riveting. i mean, if you have not read the book, the bannon pieces are like wow. all right, so i want to get -- he opens his mouth and it's a kind of poetry. [laughter] a poetry of a sort. of a sort. we all poetry are is of a sort. well i wanted, you cannot stop listening to. you go you go i hope he keeps going. he does. [laughter] so i -- asking you this question to get into -- your sources, and how you got them early in the book, there is a, you tell, you talk about this
dinner party that is thrown. roger ails is there. everyone is waiting for steve bannon to show up. he's hours, he's hours late but when he gets there, he's just -- going on and on and on and on in the book -- it is not clear who is throwing the dinner part. but we now know that the dinner party was thrown by you. now -- it i bring that up for us specific reason which i'll get to later but on the view -- you were asked by meghan mccain whether the dinner was off the record. and you initially said, yes the the dinner was off the record. which you could hear the gasp in the audience of people who knew what that meant. and she asked so then how is this off the record dinner in the book? explain why it shall well let me explain a couple of things why it isn't identified.
in, in writing this book, i mean, i have to write that -- i made a very precise decision that there would be no i in the book. there was no eye because i didn't want this book to be about my impressions of donald trump. i wanted it to be the impressions of the people around him. i really nobody believes this, but i went into this, into this project without -- withouts preconception. without an assumption about -- about whether donald trump could -- would be successful or would be a failure. i thought i don't know. and -- i wanted to find out what donald trump is, who he is through the people who worked with him on a -- on a daily and often minute by minute basis. so i eliminated myself from the book.
so may this dinner did occur at my house. it came about because i have had a -- relationship with roger ails for a long time for almost 20 years. and roger a man who i don't -- qowld not say i agreed with on probably any -- any pingt on the continue women of opinions has never been a good friend, a source, incredibly funny person to spend time with and someone new whom you really get a glimpse. you really get to know something about how, how power has worked over this. over this practically speaking a generation. so i have known roger when he was thrown out of fox. i was perhaps among few people who kept speaking to him.
and he was moving to -- to palm beach in january so he was going on january fourth. i said come for dinner. of the night before roger and his wife. on the spur of the moment, i think -- probably that day i shot steve bannon a note. i said roger or is coming for dinner he's moving to they're moving to palm beach next day. do you want to come? and -- i don't know what i expected out of that. but when i went about when he responded that he would, he would like to comment i had to go to my an say, guess who is coming to dinner? [laughter] but it was actually a kind of a splendid evening, and, and it
was completely off a the record. then roger died i thought what does that mean in this thing and i decided that -- that it probably i decided i could use it spie spoke to roger's wife so like the confidentiality died with him. yeah that decision of made right or wrong that was the decision i made. then, shortly after -- after that, actually i got this wrong because first it was steve bannon who said after roger had died he said, you're going use that aren't you? he said that's -- that's history. that's -- and i said oh, okay. and i said he said yeah. use it. and then i spoke to roger's
wife. so what's how i got on the record. >> okay. so that actually one of the scene setting moments and so now we understand how it is that you were able to get waved had many to the white house to basically become a potted plant in the west wing lobby. so most of your -- your meetings at the white house were with steve bannon or o at least you were scheduled to meet with steve bannon and then what would happen? >> no. i was scheduled to meet with, i mean, i have a lot of meetings with steve and steve was one of the pillars of this become this book. but i basically met with everybody and even was -- under impression they were supposed to meet with me? where, did that impression come from -- the president? or can did it because you were talking to steve bannon, they
figured well, we should probably -- >> it came from -- it came from, i mean -- i was introduced around by -- by various people by hope hicks who was the -- you know the president's personal pr person. you know, kellyanne conway sean spicer, i mean this was -- this was not a mystery here. now, i think on one level, nobody quite knew how this came about and everybody looked a little puzzled by things. but it, it was there was no friction here. there was no friction. nobody was saying what are you doing here. everybody was saying okay. yeah, yeah. okay they would see you sitting -- she would see you sitting in west wing lobby like who are you waiting to sigh, and then you would say bannon they would chuckle and say that would be
for if a while why don't you come back to talk with me? >> i became a familiar presence around the white house, and i think also, very much a nonthreatening presence. i was not, i mean, you know press corps. was over there. not far away. but i was always careful not to come in as a member of the press. and not to -- not to act like a member that the press is a sort of, you know, they want something. and i didn't want anything. i literally was just i didn't even have -- basically come on michael. i didn't want anything. i'm just silting in the west wing lobby hoping to tack to all of these -- >> i said man, really? i just wanted -- i wanted someone to tack to me i was like -- [laughter] and this is, this is actually an important thing because -- you go in there an you so it would be in. you would get i don't know a 10:00 appointment you would go
in, and and then you would sit there, and you would sit there sometimes for hours. sometimes hours and hours and it was kind of humiliating actually, and you had the feeling that people -- a that regarded me as a kind of a pit iable creature. i'm not -- i'm not important enough for anyone to keep their appointment with me. everybody else is there and they're having appointments, and there are people come out and i'm still just waiting there, and in the hours are passing -- and i did feel humiliate but then it became this kind of thing that people -- it began to work. people would stop and they would try to take care of me and -- say like one of the neediest cases come on. come back -- talk to me, and the other thing and this is an important thing,
i -- i basically didn't ask questions. so all reporters what do we do? we ask questions ask questions i don't ask questions i go in and i sit there, and -- we are just to talk. so one of the reasons why perhaps people start to talk, from what you're saying and the key in that is, what you said in terms of the initial part of your answer where you said, you mention hope hicks. who is the president's personal pr person. now, when you read fire and fury you find out that everybody this this book has his o or her own pr person. ivanka have their own pr person. bannon eppedz up building up his own pr team. is one of the reasons why all of these -- the president, i mean, right, the president who has a press
secretary and the whole communication shop. communication shop of 40 people but he's conducting his on freelance operation. [laughter] so maybe why they took pity on you and in the west wing lobby they knew you were talking to bannon, is it that they realizedded oh, my god he's talking to bannon, i need to tack to him to find out what bannon has -- so i can counteract that. >> that happened a little later on when they realized that bannon was kind of monopolizing me in the beginning it was -- everybody, with everybody was -- was talking and confused about why they were talking. but they were talking, they -- it had come on high from nobody, nobody actually knew from where it came. it seemed but there was a general -- feeling that you were supposed to talk to me i think.
people unburdening themselveses did you feel like a therapist? >> eventually you did and that's the, what i saw -- in the -- i mean this book is really about there's a plotline, the transforms that took place is people in the beginning who were, you know, donald trump raw raw and you got this donald trump line. and then that tban to degrade you know they began to give you the -- trump line where why they were giving it to you and they would go -- awe, awe it shall and it became very clear that they wanted, they wanted someone else to know that why they have to give this line they didn't believe it. and then after -- moving even putt on then it fell apart entirely and they would tell you this is, this is, you know, this is really a mess here.
and so -- so, i mean, i think that happened and but then the other thing happened was this -- bannon thing. that steve was talking to me so then -- other people had to talk to me to counter what steve was saying. and also, because nobody in the white house you know there were these camps in the the whowtion and camps didn't speak to each other. so therefore, i became you have to in one respect you had these camps saw an advantage in speaking to me because then they can ask me what other people were saying so i became kind of a messenger, totally high school, and that was a welcome to washington. [laughter] >> i didn't mean to disrupt. that was it. so you -- there are many instances in the book where the president picks
up the phone. and calls around to his new york buddies or just people -- and just vents for a very long time in one at the end of one section, you write about all of the things that the president said and then at the end you said the call lasted 26 minutes. how many people does the president call like that back in new york? >> you know, there are probably eight people in new york he calls on -- on a steady basis. yoim and there may be more. those are ones that you know about people that i know about. and i, you know, i think he has -- you know he has a -- there's that -- that's his kitchen cabinet of -- basically billionaires. few media people who he knows,
and interesting thing is that he calls them and they call each other and whoever, they call their friends and so on. and this all leaks out so the president you know throws a fit about leaks but, of course, in in instances they come directly from him. so -- if you were -- if you are at event i did with dan rather back in november, you know i like to write in my books and take notes so if you have your book with you please turn to page 92. there it says on february 5th trump made one of his seething self-pitying unsolicited phone call without presumption of -- confidentiality to a passing new york media acquaintance. but call had no discernible point other than to express bent out of shape feelings about
contempt of the media an disloyalty of his staff. so, of course, i immediately thought, are you the passing new york media acquaintance? michael -- >> i believe if i told you in the -- in the green room i was not going to tell you that. [laughter] i had to -- i had to ask. but you know what then my question of reading paragraph in that question gets to -- something that i wonder if people particularly here in washington fully appreciate and that is the fact that -- you are a picture in new york media. you are a fixture in new york society with large that the world that the president and ivanka trump and jared kushner, the world that they live in and socialize in is the same world that you are in.
i'm thinking it from a journalistic point of view that when you read this book there are nuggets of information that only a new yorker only a new yorker who -- who swims in that pool would know the chapter on jervanka you have it. the what you write about jared kushner, and who he is and where he come theres from and why he t the new york observer and how that was important and how jared kushner and president trump are very is similar. that's not something you get from just starting to work on this book. that's -- years if not decades of accrued knowledge, and intelligence from being a reporter in new york. no? >> yeah, so listen, this is the world, world i've lived in, and
reported on is essentially the media world. and donald trump is in essentially a media figure. he's not a political figure. he comes out of this world, and, in fact, you know, i mean, the president has been saying that he doesn't know me. in, in fact, i have known him for four, for i guess about 20 more than 20 years that -- because i was the media columnist for new york magazine, an a so i wases one of the people at the magazine that he would regularly call up to complain about what was written about him or more frequently when he had not been written about. and you know i would see him, see him often around town and he was the guy at any combattering didn't like to talk to.
you know like to talk to people he recognized. and -- so i, you know, we had a -- perfectly fine long acquaintance, and which -- kind of i interviewed him in june of 2016 just, just before the conventions, and i was brought -- we met at the kimmel show in los angeles, and so i was sort of brought in to interview him. and i think it was hope hicks said mr. trump, you have 45 minutes. and his face went back. his eyes went open he said, you don't give michael wolf 45 minutes, and he said why don't you come back to the house after i do the show, and we'll sit
around. which we did for if like an hour and eating as he ate these pints of ice cream. [laughter] well let's talk more about president trump. [laughter] and and media because i do think that -- we have our first -- we have a -- a president who is -- a media creation. and you're someone who as you just said writes about the media and you write, on page 215 this is president trump's even citizen trumps view if you couldn't get press directly for yourself, you bill a leaker. there was no happenstance news in trump's view. all news was manipulated and designed, planned and planted. all news was to some extent fake. he understood that very well because he himself had faked it so many times in his career. this was why he had so naturally
fake news label, quote, i've made stuff up forever. and they always precincted he bragged. that is the -- that we have seen that totally for -- 363 days. his -- i mean his entire media career to be somewhat distinguished from his real estate career, but his media career was about, it was about this was literally sort of i will say anything that gets me inc. what we used to call ink. yeah. [laughter] an it was, it is literally didn't matter and wheive you're on the phone with him as a reporter it would own pretense would basically fall. what do you want me to say and play this? this is -- this is -- you know, he's a -- he's a -- he's an the not just an old
fashioned publicist so it's it not just him that's -- his the immorality of this is a well engrained, accepted immorality in the -- in how you o get pressed for yourself. that's you know the tabloid business. speaking of immorality so you're sitting there in the west wing lobby, for hours on end -- and if u you've ever sat in the west we think lobby, you know that people are are walking through. back and forth, staffers are walking through. meetings that people who have meetings with senior staffs are coming in. it's one 689 of the ways various ways for west wing upstairs for the door anyway you pack is an easy pass through.
now you -- were hoping that someone would take pity on you, and see you and take care of you. but sitting in that lobby, you see and hear an awful lot of hinges wool you're waiting everything. did you hear them talking about -- policy? just in general? policy? and then i'll hone in. >> yes. yes. and were they speaking about policy in any kind of substantive way? and what were they talking about? >> it's more -- i think the most riveting thing i heard -- most like oh, my god. is i heard tony blair and jared kushner talking about the problems of the middle east.
and i heard jared kushner say, let me get this right. damn it we can solve this problem. [laughter] okay. and what was, what was the former prime minister's reaction? >> he was -- i mean i think he -- he was acting leak a man who was trying to cultivate a new client. oh, okay. did you hear while sitting there in the west wing lobby wait withing for someone to scoop you up and bring you upstairs or -- around the bend, did you of hear people talk about the american people or o particularly the president supporters in waves that you found balling, shocking appalling it shall -- >> no, actually, my impression
is that mostly they didn't talk about things outside of -- of the west wing. mostly they were talking everybody in my experience with almost holy focus on what was going on in the west wing. so bannon people were talking about the -- the people they were talking about the bannon people, everybody was talking about reince priebus. and that is -- i think it was one of the things that i -- i mean, the lasting impression is that everybody was focused on themselves. is there anyone many -- in the white house who is left and a lot of people who you've written about that are gone who are qualified to perform job for which they were hired? or a job they're doing now -- >> yeah, i think sure. sure.
there's, i mean, a master i think is a -- you know certainly an experienced person in this job even you know mick -- you know, you know there are a lot. there are professional people there. but you know, one of the things i think, sing really worth focusing on now which haven't gotten enough attention is that, is that with all of the -- of the initial team leaving, bannon priebus, spicer, you're left with basically the two, the president's two senior most advisors are hope hicks 28 or 29 of june former junior fashion pr person. and steven miller who everybody saw his head explode on --
staffers national television. i mean and these -- i mean whether you agree with them or their politics or not these are just -- just two people who bring nothing to this, to this, to had had table they just have no experience. no maturity, and you know, and no reason -- no reason under the sun to be -- to be doing the jobs that -- that we're paying them to do. now essential focus of the book is -- is steve bannon is throughout this book. steve bannon is the smartest person in the west wing. steve bannon is the one who is true believer who has an agenda who wants to push the to do what he thinks he should do and steve is smarter than priebus and spicer and smarter than everybody. bannon is gone. are you surprised given the way
he comes off here -- it comes off as one who -- really thinks he's smarter than he really is. are you surprised that he's no longer there, and not no longer there -- like ex-communicated they have left them. i think that i thought steve come -- i do think steve is smart. and -- and qualified to be in that job. excuse me was he qualified to be in that job that he had? >> well, you know, steve is -- 64 years old, and has never worked in, in politics or government before. so -- so probably i would say -- in no conventional terms was he qualified for this job. nevertheless, he at least read a few books so he's coming in. bar is very low here.
i'm going to ask this one last question and opened it up from q and a in the audience and i'm so afraid that i'm going it take time away from you. so -- say this now if you have a question, there's a mic there and a mic there. please line up of after questions. one -- make sure it is a question. i don't mean to be rude but i'll be forced to cut you off and i'll be rude about it. because i want to get in as many people as possible. so again -- there's like a microphone here and microphone there. michael, you claimed in one interview you left some quotes and some stories out. why? >> i just -- couldn't nail it.
things that i -- that i believed to be true, but couldn't nail it. was there anything so shocking that you nailed it but because it was so shocking you kept it out? >> well, yes. i mean, about wait -- [laughter] >> wait, what? >> there is, there are -- there are several things that i thought were shocking. i believe that i had nailed it but they were shocking enough that you immediate to need a sort of triple quadruple nailing and i didn't have what. animal vegetable mineral which camp did it come from? >> what -- i'm trying to stop out what is this shocking thing that you left out that you nailed that you left it out o?
give me so contour. >> i know i'm trying to find out. [laughter] how much i have to struggle not to tell you this. [laughter] >> go on, man. if you read between the lines it is there. but just a little test. >> okay is it at the beginning -- the middle or the end? it's toward the end. [laughter] i -- i would say no more because you'll get it out of me here and there will be then weal all -- i can keep going i can totally sell the q and a -- if i can squeeze this out of you.
does it involve -- okay so question -- i'm going to let you, i'll let you off the hook. for now -- it's like a reading thing, it is there and first in line. nobody has yet spotted it. you were first in line you get the first question and this first question. rng thank you very much. hi michael thanks for the book. you achieved what all of us were thinking about which was we wish we were a fly on the qawl in the white house and you were that fly on the the qawl so thank you for sharing. my question is on average how many days week were you able to get into the white house and procedurally how did did you get in?
easy you make an appointment whoever the first appointment with puts you into the system welcome and you go in and you're basically there for the day so you have to start out. you have to make -- you have to go in with an appointment i didn't go in -- you know, i didn't have run of this -- free run. i mean once you can did as soon as you got in which you have to make this appointment so i would spend monday my schedule was monday i would make my appointment for the week and then i live in new york, so then i would come down on either monday night or early tuesday morning. i would check into the hey a.d. dales had is right across from the white house. and then i would, i would go back and forth and the -- nice thing i found out about the hey adam is people at the a end of the day could come over. come over for a drink or dinner
or -- whatever. >> we with all wish we were that fly. [laughter] thank you michael. >> question here. >> thank you for coming out. so prior to the campaign, and, i mean, it is pretty clear that trump and the clinton family had extensive relationship hillary received dodgeses from donldz through a campaign and both present at her wedding et cetera, et cetera at the start of the book you mention that ambition of the trump team fell apart at once he won the presidency it was clear he was trying to melt the cable news network and that sort of thing. do you think clinton was knowledgeable of trump's ambitions given the relationship prior to the campaign and do you think she had formed her campaign in a way to accommodate those ambitions? >> i'm -- i'm -- i'm not clear on the question e. >> can you ask that question again but shorter? >> yeah, so dontd and hillary had had a relationship. prior to the campaign --
>> right. donald clearly had other motives aside from being the president, right, do you think hillary was knowledgeable of motives when she was shaping her campaign? >> fund mentally the trump didn't think they were going to win and clinton dpght didn't think trump were imoin to win so in that respect i think that hillary people probably, probably did -- assume that, that the trump people had other ambitions besides being president which they weren't going to do or theoretically weren't going to be. and as he writes in the book, all of those trump ambition were the trump -- television new york, and ivanka had her own ambition and jared had his own aiming ambition thank you for your question. question here. >> hi michael thank you for
doing this interview. my question was -- what's the part of the book that you -- wish you would cut out and why? >> part of the book that you left many but looking back you wish that you'd cut? >> no part. i think it is -- i would say i'm entirely happy with the book at this point you know when you write books years from now you look back and you think -- but at this moment in time, i'm feeling good. you want to put that piece in that you forgot. but the tillerson. question here. need to take questions on the pitiable creature aspect of sitting in the white and west wing lobby so you're sitting there. are you on your phone or are you working on things are you just like making puppy eyes at
anybody who walk by you hoping this that -- like are you really going, going for trying to catch somebody's attention why you're sit manager west wing lobby or are you doing your own o thing and eventually -- >> trying not to be noticed. because you think somebody will throw you out like what are you doing here and trying not to be noticed because you have, you know, it is embarrassing. you know there you are, the clock you know the people there and clock goes, and you know, you've has beyond your appointment, and then they try to say can i get you anything? can you do this -- and then issue of going in the bathroom into can you go to the bathroom but you can go and you can wand or almost anywhere. >> i have been in that west wing lobby. where did you get to the bathroom that you can get to
unescorted? >> unescorted? >> you go through the -- through when you walk in, the door on the left -- you go through the door which actually we've -- been to roosevelt room in the oval -- yeah. well -- i mean it's again it was the thing you know what do they see? you know, and when you know the whole -- right you don't have as you said before you "don't ask, don't dos pass but you have a blue appointment badge that gives you some other kind of access to theball. question here, thank you. i've been wonder this the media yourself who has been the press secretary? >> favorite press secretary? favorite press secretary? you know, i mean, i've dealt within this white house in this -- in this book i only dealt with shawn. so you know after so -- resistant i didn't have any dealings with --
with sarah. but did you mean press secretarieses in general because -- this administration of three. so john spicer thank you. >> thank you. question here. team they want to talk to ban an they'll ask -- bannon about these things that you quoted him for in the book. qlowf met trurm and bannon and relationship isn't very good at moment it seems look but we're not completely sure. what is your impression that -- will bannon sell trump in these when he tacks about robert mueller or kism what he said, what is your impression what will happen -- from now on in two ways i would anticipate that --
steve will tell the truth. you know, but i guess there's the truth an there's the truth. but does he -- does he really are go after the president? does steve bannon make a decision to try to break trump? and i think that you know, if i were steveing right now, that's what i would be if i would be thinking that's one of my options here. i mean, i literally saw steve bannon go from, from the guy who elected trump to the guy who thought that trump was, was the idiot of the century. and a guide who you know, who -- who who came to realize that whatever goals and agendas steve had whatever he, you know, the
nationalist populous whatever that is and i don't mean to be dismissed for steve that is a very, very specific idea driven program. and he thought that trump would be its -- trump could be able to lead this, this this, this new movement and it turned out trump really is not capable of that not interested in that. and -- is -- is just going to go in whatever direction he goes in an any given moment and i think steve found that incredibly infuriating, and i think that he was useing the things he said in my bock as part of his -- intention to break with trump. so i -- yes, i think, i think that he i don't know what's going to
happen. but i think it is a very real possibility that steve could think. >> and to follow-up on his question -- since he brought up mueller has anyone contacted you in connection with the investigation at all given to some of the things that you have in here such as bannon's quote that the meeting in june in trump tower was treasonnist? >> they have not but i'll be honest, i've gotten a lot i'm behind on my e-mail. [laughter] question here -- thank you. but question is have you consider consideredded you received subpoena for those tapes have you provided them and
if you consider you would reach them publicly at the same time -- >> i have because i'll answer what i have not considered -- have not considered i have not considered what i would do if -- if my taste were subpoenaed -- brings up another problem in the whole idea of -- of the tapes and releasing tapes. because if my tapes were ever subpoenaed i would not release them. so, i think that that's -- that's my, you know, that's just part of what we do as -- as journalists i can't think of anything more fundamental about how you protect your, your work. so just another aspect of this question which is -- seems to be ultimately unclear. >> question here. >> do you believe that the p
tape is real? wait with i didn't hear the question either say that again. do you believe that the p tape is real? p tape is real? >> i would have no way of knowing my gut is, i don't believe it. but that's just -- i mean -- oh, my god. did anyone -- >> i can't even just imagining it what, and -- michael. in any of your conversations would any of the people in the west wing did anyone ever bring it up? the p tape, i mean. [laughter] >> yes. but -- in somewhat of a e elliptical way there was a lot of --
can you imagine this, no, no it is not possible. and i have actually -- had disconcerting discussion with the president in the united states. okay, now. now we're talking and putting extra tile on the clock here. mirk el what did the president of the united states say, did he bring it up on his own? he brought it up on his own. [laughter] in what -- okay. how does one? >> i was embarrassed i didn't want to talk about you know, golden showers with the president. i probably should have. i just felt so ac a ward about this. >> what did he say?
he was a germaphobe and couldn't believe that people were accusing hill of this, and -- did i think it was true? you know me he said but can you see me doing that, i didn't know what to say. i was like, okay. that was one with of a litany of things in the phone call or call you specifically so say you don't think this is true. i'm a germaphobe. but -- did you get the sense that the president was trying to convince you that he couldn't possibly do this? i think that the president just talks off his head. i don't think he's trying to convince anybody of anything. i don't think he has no strategy in what he's saying. he has no -- intention or intent. i think it just -- it just comes out. i don't think it matters who he's talking to and doesn't listen to who he's talking to so
what does it -- so it is very, disconcerting experience to speak to donald trump. [laughter] to say the very least. >> so this particular pp tape conversation, when did that happen? >> i will not -- >> did that happen, not to say. did that happen when -- did it happen as republican nominee can it happen as president elect. did it happen as president of the united states? although no you said, it's disconcerting to have a conversation with with the president of the united states. >> president of the united states that's within the last 3 63 days. [laughter] it's your turn. >> hi, how do we get donald trump out of office? patience. i think he'll get himself out of
offices. this is just -- unfolding process from the beginning of this trump thing. you know we all seen this as a train wreck, and just wall seem to recede but wall is still there but do you think he'll get himself out of office does that mean you don't buy the -- the prayers for impeachment you don't buy the really big prayers for -- invocation of the 25th amendment. you think that he will figure out a trump way to resign or leave the presidency a winner? >> i think the bannon formula is -- very reasonable a 33 and third percent chance of impeach and that he'll resign in the shadow of the 25th amendment. a 33 and third percent chaps that he will limp to the end but a zero percent chance that he
will have another term or even run again. question here. >> sort of in the same vain, i was going to ask you when and how will this this end, and you can talk about impeachment. but there's also others who could be involved in i know you don't have a crystal ball but where do you see? >> i think i'll fall back on that i think literally bannon formula is -- is the most reasonable way to look at this. i mean we don't know how this is going to end but we can. i think have some confidence of -- really something near absolute confidence that it will end. >> question here. >> hi michael thanks for the discussion. two questions -- first, can you kind of go into more of the beginning of your bannon relationship how did that come about and second have you
received an influx of hate mail or have you talked po the president? >> kind of -- >> received influx of hate mail and/or o spoken to the president since release of this book ? >> have you had any positive -- influx of hate mail? >> influx of hate mail? >> gotten influx of hate mail and spoken to the president since the book? >> i have not -- and i haven't really gotten hate mail but i'm behind on e-mail and first question is can you talk about -- elaborate more on beginning of your and bannon relationship and you mentioned a dinner but i'm sure. your relationship with bannon how does that come about? >> okay. okay in -- february or march of 2016, i was
walking through the and with speeches when you're on speaking circuit you're happy to go to orlando. [laughter] anyway i'm walking through not paying much attention. but somebody there's a guy i see this guy who -- who clearly seems to recognize me. looks at me and, in fact, drops his being and comes over to me and embracing me i think and he says oh, you've been doing great work. and, you know you take a fan and any way you get him. [laughter] and i say thank you, thank you. this and that, and he's acting like, like i know like we know each other. and also that -- my age this happens also and you think okay and just --
[laughter] but then that was it. all i knew. then about a month later i saw an article about breitbart. and there was the the picture of -- this guy and i thought oh, my god guy will hug me in orlando is the breitbart guy. and i -- instant i still wrestle with this. have i ever known steve bannon how could this -- i don't know. but -- i didn't think anything behind that except it comes august and suddenly steve bannon is appointed the head of the trump campaign. and i thought okay if he thinks i'm his friend i'll be his friend. [laughter] and i write him an e-mail and he say come up any time. and which i -- prompghtly do. i mean this is not far from my house i go over, i go over there, go up to trump tower, and
we sit dun and this is -- seems like we're friends i miss the whole chapter here. but -- [laughter] we have that's the thing so he's there maybe this is second week he's there and he's like we're going win and outlines we're going to win you know our pack is through. is through florida, ohio, michigan, and pennsylvania. and this seems so much just like you know, filling had. that i don't write this. and -- then i kind of so maybe i exchange another couple of e-mails with him. but then they win. and i respond again i think can i come up and he says well i think a week or so after the and i go up there. we sit down, we have a conversation.
and i say can i write this? an he says -- no. somebody will write this. you're about to be one of the most famous people in the country and he said, okay. right. so i did, an that was i think the first on the record interview that steve gave, and it may actually have been the -- the only one he gave until, with until just before he, he left the white house. so we, i continued this relationship our deep friendship with i don't know where it came from. but -- before we moved to this next question here. do you feel badly that the book is -- what helped push bannon out?
i feel steve knew what he was doing i feel that he clearly is at someplace where he did not expect to be. i feel sure, however, that he has a plan to get where he wants to be. that three people in that line are the final three people short question. >> you've known him as you said over two decades but close to two decades. the president. so he's changed from being a democrat to right wring republican. does the man have any u true ideology or just spur of the moment and what gets him -- >> bingo. that's what fire and fury is all about. >> can i ask one quick question? j no, sorry ma'am we're so over
time and i have to give the bearded man behind you a chance to -- attempt to ask his question. >> thank you. i read that there was some serious discussion of developing your book into a television series. and i'm curious to know as much about what as you can share but secly curious about what kind of tone you envision for that and whether it be -- a dark comedy or dark drama. it can be with read either way. >> i've had enough involvement with hollywood to know that -- whatever the writer of -- wants is totally irrelevant. [laughter] but if i -- if i could, i would say you play a totally straight. i mean you don't have to do anything here. [laughter] just it cares itself. >> can't wait to tune in. >> thanks.
hey, it's you again. >> can i have another question? >> really a short question. if -- donald trump gets impeached will he be better for u.s. than trump? >> i think anything would be better but i can't answer that question. but that falls into category of be careful what you wish finish so michael last -- last question. president trump tweeted not recently but michael wolf is a total loser who meads up stories in order to sell this boring and untruthful book with boring steve bannon who begged and cried for his job an now he's dumped by a dog by almost everyone. too bad. [laughter]
if the president is here or call you what would you say to him? thing with donald trump is you never get to say anything to him but i predict that actually what he will say sooner rather than later is that he's responsible for this book and it is successful because of him, and -- he is the real writer of this book. and on that note michael, wow. thank you both so much. if you could all please remain seated while our bests exit that would be much appreciated. thank you so much.
>> here's a look at authors recently feoffed on booktv's afterwards. our weekly author interview program, former clinton administration official peter idol man argued that u.s. courts are using fine and fees to exploit the economically imof rished. federal judge john newman reflected on his career first as a prosecutor. now as a federal appellate judge. and christopher scalia son of the late supreme court justice angt anyone scalia shared selections from his father's speeches.
coming weeks kaelin are report on populous movement in u.s. black lives matter patrice will discuss the birth and growth of the movement. and this weekend, on afterwards, women's march on washington co-chair linda reflects on the 2017 march. and what's ahead for the movement -- we felt that the democratic party or democrats in general were too busy focusing on vote for us buzz we're not them. you know, vote for us because that i racist or they're the deplorable and that's not how people are moved and i think about how i'm moved but by things i care about and community that i love. i'm moved by the idea that i have a role to to play in -- protecting the most marginalized people so what i wanted to bring forth not just buzz we're anti-trump. trump is manifestation of the unfortunate diseases that have
plagued this nation for a very long time but we wanted people to feel they were marching for something that we have value and principles that we stand for so we went on mission to find about 27 of the most brilliant women and women identifying folks had in the country and say that we want to put together a platform that's speaks to everyone, and being able to read a platform and people to say well you know what, never really thought about this but it makes sense to me but i care about three issues and this brings me to the table i'm coming for transwomen or o muslim women but come to table because i believe that immigrants in our country deserve to be deal with respect and coming to table because women deserve equal pay and women body should be their choices and government shouldn't be legislating them. for antiwar and prodiplomacy and peace and all we put forth was brilliance of woman coming together saying this is what we believe in and we march for these things but not against a one person but we're marching
for these things and against all of these bad things like racism and i remember reading an article maybe two weeks before women march last year that said this was the boldest platform that has ever come out of any march historically and one of the moments where i was the most proud. afterwards airs on booktv every saturday at 10 p.m. eastern and sunday at 9 p.m. eastern and pacific. here's a look at some of the best nonfiction books of 2017, according to the los angeles times. atlantic national correspondent franklin ruers on tradeoff between technology and personal privacy in world without mind. in the great quake, "new york times" science reporter hebe henry fountain ruers on largest earthquake ever recorded in north america happened in alaska. biographer ruth franklin recalls life and writing of author
shirley jackson pulitzer prize winning journalist john tells story behind a classic movie high noon and political climate at the time it was made. and in we were 8 years in power, tonia coats examines race relations in america and legacy of president obama. >> when i came into journalism, one of the big admonishing from older black writers and well meaning white or writers was don't get boxed off as a black writer. don't awill you them and inked what they were says you want your freedom to pursue yourself whenever your curiosity to go and i agonize because really curiosity led me back to my people and back to my community. and it was only really you know what i started doing that at that report under the presidency. and the obama presidency that i came to understand as i say in the book i was never boxed in you know everybody was boxed
out. because -- african-american history doesn't exist over here. it is the thread running right through -- the country itself so if you -- they don't get that. they think it is just one lings like you have two different colors in rainbow and this is one color in the the rainbow. [laughter] the authors appeared on booktv you can watch them online on our website booktv.org.