interviewed by investigative journalist and author of the smear. "after words" is a weekly program with relevant guest hosts interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest works. >> host: what would you say is a one paragraph thesis of killing the deep state? >> from the cia and the justice department and fbi formed a coup d'état attempt to make sure donald trump ever continues to serve as president. and the other sentence i would add to that is about the steps donald trump must take in the process in order to preserve the constitution to image what is

treason. >> host: i heard some of these the past couple of years and i didn't attach a love of meaning until recently so maybe you can define other shadow governments and swamp. the same thing or how would you differentiate? >> guest: people do loosely used these terms and have different meanings but they all come down to the same concept and that is in washington there is a group of entrenched interests i represented in the bureaucracy and i largely take the intelligence agencies and the justice department and certainly the irs that other agencies on their own agenda have been the new world order types.

the party politics have gone along with the extreme version of politics we are seeing in the recent years. they are affecting their own bureaucratic wishes other than the people of electing donald trump president and donald trump turned it was most understand because washington was at one point a swamp and they are

certainly biting and fighting for their turf. >> about 22 plus years i have a different name for it via insistent there are chrissy and by that even if the administration's changadministri felt certain tasks and policies with change as the days. is that a part of it? >> iso >> i so tremendously admire your work and the most recent book identifies the same issues that i am addressing although mine is in the context of donald trump specifically.

the bureaucracy shows up and i'm sorry but we can't do that because here is this law and regulation and what you asked us to do is inconsistent with what we were required to do by congress. diametrically bu what he ran ons a principal donald trump had had to find this out even with the

republicans and others we will hope you get obamacare repealed and replaced. as president johnson had known coming into the office how difficult it is to give and take the capacity of the legislation and how much bargaining there is going to go on to get a piece of legislation passed. realizing this deep state of entrenched the cia and fbi

justice. is there a precise moment that you can say there is a deep state if we started to believe there is a shadow government? >> guest: it goes back to the assassination of jack kennedy. with its hearings and the like it was a huge shock in the way we began to find out how this occurred in the gunfire shots

which seemed to have been almost impossible t to to have been any harvey oswald gets shot and begins to say i think i'm watching a play being produced where we are not supposed to know the real story behind the scenes because he's just been killed anthony harvey oswald said he was a patsy and i begin to think even at that moment this is a deep state jack kennedy did not control and i knew he had been warned that the dangers were significant because jack kennedy understood when he gave his universit university se declared his willingness to reach out and work together with the russian that went against a lot of the genitals he had come to realize during the cuban missile crisis.

you can hear it on tape in the archives we are happy to have more. the idea that the deep state is not only determined on the policy. it is with the deep state cia directive bureaucracy that is capable of engaging in criminal acts around the world etc., the iran contra. the list goes on but what people

will find shocking when they read my book is i am abl if i ao document a coup d'état effort ongoing within the fbi and deeply loyal to hillary clinton. to the extent the plan has been a serious fbi department of justice coup d'état effort backed by the cia. >> host: with what you say over the decades in general is the goal of the deep state? >> guest: gets shifted to be

internationalist. take a look at john brennan for instance had a deep history with obama and it sanitized his passport records during the run-up to that cycle and then he ends up in the cia and it's highly possible he converted somewhere along the way h and hs state department and he demonstrated he speaks arabic and they made it a policy in the cia that carried out things also in the justice department that for instance had a great number more, muslims were brought into the administration and the idea of radical islamic terrorism was ruled out as more and internationalist view as the

kind of policy attitude that you see in the european union. the lonthe long said the positif power in the cia and justice. the future was this new world order in which we could go to the globalism, internationalism defined the united states of america if president obama was fond. for the conservatives for

patriots with the startling points of the deep state. it is end a xenophobia and i don't hate islam. by march 200 miles after 2005. ask your book points out on those of us who want to have a conservative position that is duly recognized as appropriate.

the bureaucracy and coup d'état within the state department and fbi reflects this internationalism. they were constantly under attack. this is not legitimate and lying about what we do report and lying about lawsuits filed or issues that i would call fake news, but we are constantly under this attack because the hard left doesn't want to deba

debate. >> host: one of the things i saw overtime in the decade was in the past ten years or so this trend towards not just wanting to debate viewpoints and facts, but it's new to me when i first started happening when the forces didn't want to have their say they didn't want the public to hear certain things which struck me as strange. >> this is one of those points where we have a similar experience at info wars where i am proud to be. everything you read about it that says it is discredited. >> host: >> guest: as your book points out that if the disinformation

generated by people like david and media matters. they want to eliminate the first amendment and are not interested in freedom of speech or religion. the hard left is not interested in the second amendment, certainly don't want people to have the right to bear arms. questioning the fourth amendment, to be happy with all of the social media that are really just serving as the front piece of the cia and the nsa especially in montgomery or

julia masson should with data -- we are fighting internally. i think it is one of the best definitions, the bankers looking aat it info wars called it the most disruptive news service opposing the media consensus that was causing to be kind of like a dissemination of corporate news. the story line the democrats

want advanced whereas for instance my book killing the deep state, i'm not going to get interviewed by abc or cbs or nbc. they don't want a story told. in a way where they've been able to challenge and threat in the mainstream media consensus so much they don't want anybody to even cover it or they make lies about lawsuits that are filed to disparage alec jones when they haven't bothered to listen to what he is saying come of this misrepresentation is calculated and the annual fundraising efforts document how they've got some conservatives like lou dobbs fired or different people

removed from the networks because they attack the advertisers and they attack and not only make up things about you if you read the description -- >> host: you can't correct when they want something to be said, the edge and a editor can keep any truths or facts that are contrary to be published. >> guest: they are constantly being attacked by editors who will dominate the agenda and demand that we be called all of these negative words that they can invest starting with conspiracy theorists. my book points out that there is a coup d'état effort and i think the effort for this is getting to be massive. >> host: that would be a conspiracy theory. >> guest: accept this date conspiracy fact and that is the

problem is the left wants to cover by controlling the language and the dialogue they want to basically call what they are doing patriotic or in defense of the day really want to destroy and rewrite the constitution. you take a look at the hard left in california and it has nothing to do with what the conservative rest of the country once and wad they are not willing to accept they lost to the majority of american people or at least the majority of the electoral vote totals did not buy the argument which was essentially a retelling of the media matters or george soros funding of the hard left line. >> host: your book reads as strongly supported of the trump presidency.

he is not many people think conservative on many things. some things you said something snow, changes his mind from time to time. time. where yotime. were you always a supporter and how did that come about? >> guest: i've known him for many years going back to at least the 1980s when i had a career in financial services working internationally in financial services an in the broadly in the united states. for the couple of years i about looked at the plaza hotel and got to know him quite well. some of the companies i was working with were doing business with donald trump, the buying of the gm building across the street from the plaza was an example and i always admired donald trump did have a great rapport with him and thought he was misrepresented and regarded. if you knew him he was a generous person who cared deeply about his guests in the hotel,

worked with the unions, hired every race on the planet to work with him, had more women in his organization and hillary clinton ever hired in her campaigns and was demeaned both learned how to live with it and i always said he looked like he was going to lose just before he wins. and he's got a remarkable capability. donald trump is going to be a disruptive presidency to the leftist agenda because they don't want confrontation, they don't want the american people to wake up whereas a certainly if you follow some of the things that has been posted which i've

pretty well identified as one of the military intelligence working closely with trump that this is a narrative that is again back to the fact the constitutiotext theconstitutione preserved but donald trump is to turn the tide. .. >> all the mueller house an indictment of 12 or 13 wacky russians the posted something on the internet. even the department of justice said it did not interfere with the election and that's it, that's all they got. or, to concoct a prosecution in general plan for line which, i'm not sure he did.

this is the end of the first attempt, and it has failed. i think when i was happened is donald trump once a counterattack. we are in the initial stages of that. i expect it may take a year or two, before it is done i am convinced he will take seriously the potential charges including treason, which i could believe could be lost as highs hillary clinton and barack obama. i don't think president trump will hesitate to do that. >> can you briefly give me the highlights of your educational background. you mention financial services. >> guest: my history is complex. i don't think anyone will ever fully put together the different things i have done. i was born in cleveland, i attended saint ignatius high school. i went to harvard. harvard pay for me to get my phd. i had written three books when i

applied as an undergraduate. at harvard, got my phd in 1972, i had done a lot of writing at that time. by the 80s i had a top-secret clearance under contract with the state department to work on terrorism. trained by some of the top psychiatrist all over the world. i had a second large career financial services which i continue. i worked with insurance companies and mutual fund companies and banks around the world. very strongly in the united states. when i co-authored with john o'neill on the book against john kerry, which john o'neill was really the hero of, co-authored the book. that gave me an opportunity to get another career, which i did working some 12 years with

wnd.com as a journalist. two years ago, i began working with alex johnson a full-time as a washington correspondent with info wars. i'm very pleased to do so. >> host: you begin your book with the smoking gun. what is that? >> guest: the smoking gun, this is a critical piece of information the inspector general has been releasing. but it involves is, these two lovers in the fbi, peter stroh second lisa page. peter had a top position, very senior they had some 10000 e-mails of the two or messages they exchanged. some of which had been released. they were supposed to be lovers,

they wrote so many instant messages, don't how they had time for a love affair. they are solidly anti- hate john. they hate to trump. it's a disaster, catastrophe they say. >> host: family this little paragraph. i don't know how to pronounce it but what peter's message makes clear you wrote, is that paige and peter and the high ranking fbi officials laid out an insurance policy plan to make sure trump never served his term as president even if you pull off a miracle to become president beat their clear favorite of hillary clinton. it involved rush occlusion evidence that the fbi have been quietly accumulating against the trump campaign. >> guest: this insurance policy turns out to be the steel dossier, that originates by

republicans trying to pose trump in the primaries. when it was clear trump was beating the challengers, what everybody thought was going to be impossible, the hillary clinton people picked up the dossier and started on it. through the campaign they start of funding it. they launder their payment through perkins and coy, a law firm that defended barack obama. this is a clearly partisan law firm. it has worked with the democrats. they launder the money. >> as far as we know, what you're describing none of this is illegal. >> guest: i am not an attorney. i question how they were paid by the campaign. now, we get into what i think is a clear legality where fusion gps is used to obtain the fisa court approval to do --

>> it's advanced by the fbi. the fisa court is not explained. this came out in the devon nunez memo from the house intelligence committee, that what the fisa court saw from the fbi, this fusion gps dossier advance as reasons to begin electronic surveillance a carter page, fairly permanent member of the trump campaign at this point. i do not believe, and we have not yet seen the actual fisa court arguments or representations. from those who have seen it it seems clear, the fisa court was not told the fbi cannot substantiate the claims, could not authenticate the dossier. the dossier had an origin and opposition research.

it would be to material facts that would have to convince the court not to grant the electronic surveillance. for the officers of the court, the fbi and whoever made the arguments of the fisa court not to solely represent an inaccurate form is a crime. >> host: there something called -- procedures developed under mueller when he was head of the fbi to guarantee that no facts presented to the fisa court can be an unverified fact. they're so precisely picky about that, if one thing is iffy that they can't verify they go back to the drawing board. they're not allowed to present everything unverified to the court. >> guest: the whole purpose of the fisa court is to protect american citizens from electronic surveillance. the mandate, for instance of the

national security agency is only two conduct surveillance of foreigners. as soon as they look at carter page, anyone carter page talks to becomes collateral. so they talked jeff sessions about russia, now jus jeff sesss is a collateral person of interest in under surveillance without going back to the fisa court to get permission. so, carter page talks to the group of people in the campaign, they are all under electronic surveillance. it turns out with the russian staying that the department of justice conducted, and i question whether he is a doj agent himself. it has not been verified but speculated.

what happens, is that a wide number of this comes into the white house. the white house unmasks the name so it's no longer person a, b, c. >> host: was a procedure put in place, surveillance of u.s. citizens is supposed to be very rare. when it happens they said they will mask the names so nobody can use the. >> guest: that it comes to the white house and valerie jarrett begins on masking the names. begins identifying the names the people who are under collateral electronic surveillance. >> host: political enemies in some cases. >> guest: most cases. in the skits relate to the press. these are crimes. these are high crimes if the

intent was to deny donald trump the right to be a candidate, or to produce the evidence to impeach him. this electronic surveillance was approved four times by the fisa court. it continued through tunnel trumps transition. it continued into the white house. >> host: it was approved under donald trump. >> guest: the department of justice went and got approval under donald trump to do this. i'm sure it was brought to donald trump's attention. >> host: you talk about the theory the larger intelligence community factors into the deep state. i think some of the best evidence supporting the theory man, on march 17 when john brennan issued an over-the-top angry tweet to president trump. here's what he said. for the perpetrator corruption

becomes known, you will take your right pope place is a disgrace democratic in history. you may scapegoat andy mccabe but you will not destroy america. america will triumph over you. then the former u.s. ambassador, samantha power tweets outside, not a good idea to piss off john brennan. i found it astounding that former political officials would be having a threatening and intimidating tone. and the lord over the public instead of serving the public. >> guest: these are good points. the brennan memo to me thousand to the category of letters to write and as soon as you write it you rip it up into not send it. you have it out of your system. but you do not want to go public. also, it had the tendency to act

as if he was in the cia. >> maybe he does. >> this is the question it raises. other people in the cia listening to it brennan is telling them to do. are they undermining the presidency? these are legitimate questions. why did john brennan think he could take a stick and poke his nose at the bear is hard for me to comprehend. >> host: they have both acknowledged the controversy of on masking names of u.s. citizens including political enemies captured during intelligence. it's at an astonishing rate of almost daily during the 2016 election. >> so to go to a slightly different subject in the hillary

e-mail, i could prove during the campaign not only that whom vomiting had access to the her.com account.asending them some of them had sensitive information they could have been picked up by anybody she gave her so of password. then president obama had a pseudonym e-mail address that was not barack obama. he is that to communicate over hillary's private server when she was out of state. so i guess when they were working at how to cast comey statement which was rewritten by mckay and other officials in the fbi, they would have had to

possibly in tight barack obama for violation of the same security requirements. >> host: the original statement said hillary clinton e-mailed the president from russia on this unclassified system. they emphasize. >> president obama responded that, so using his pseudonym to go over the clinton e-mail server which would be the specific violation. when comey does a statement to the public and not only is one of the two lovers and andrew mccabe. fire at the recommendation of the inspector general for lying repeatedly under oath and leaking information, when they rewrote, statement during the election they not only change terms like grossly negligent to

extremely careless, which is not a legal definition of the criminal act, they also changed that it was president obama who had use the server with the synonym e-mail. the coup d'état was that not only in the detailing killing the deep state, it not only involved in an attempt to make sure donald trump lost the election, or if did happens when it he would be impeached, and involved protecting hillary clinton so she would not be entitled. >> host: james comey wasn't against trump, why would he issue that statement right before the election that the hillary campaign planes for her

loss? huddy explained that. >> guest: i was reported on houma operating's e-mails she was sending e-mails to her yahoo account and through her computer that wasn't on the state department system. so, the suggestion was, how about anthony weiner's computer. so, the new york police department had several appeals, saying why don't you go get anthony weiner's laptop. he is probably texting some underage girl. once they look, they and certain

fbi officials in new york went and seized the computer. so, now the nypd has the computer and what comey realizes his the nypd would be happy to release what they found on the computer if comey doesn't reinitiate the investigation. one way or another the more damaging information could come out. i called up the new york police department which reversed that they opened up again or close down again within hours. i called up the nypd and said where's the computer. the department of justice came in and took everything, they took the computer and the notes. they took it back to washington and then comey made a statement that the opening have been close. he did not have a choice in that

one. what he had to tell the rental inches either we begin the investigation or you will read it in the papers. what was actually on weiner's computer. when that was made public it will validate claims in the arguments that explain the shocking material i have in the book. with the killing of the deep state i wrote the book to say we have to kill the deep state, not just preserving donald trump selection, is making sure we understand that we have justices politicized and westernized to robe intelligence agency politicized and westernized and now because hillary one could have affected the sensory, info wars would've been done. with no recourse.

already google is attempting to cancel my youtube account which they rescinded in 24 hours, attacking alex jones any see the difficulty facebook is a realizing sharing of information for political campaigns compromise. take it like this thing song, instead of every step you take, it is every click you make, we are watching you. and eric schmidt ends up being some chief technology outside of clinton's campaign. all of the google data is transferred to the clinton campaign for the get out to vote information. that was not shared with donald trump. it is -- >> host: is probably in some disclaimer that we don't read.

>> 14 paragraph disclaimer. this is why i think this internet bill of rights will be an important idea. you cannot have corporate giants with one legal paragraph stuck away where nobody reads that everybody has to agree to it to use google. that cannot deprive you of the first amendment rights. that will be a key issue that i perceive being fought out in the ftc, the federal church commission where i believe the real regulation of the internet needs to be. i'm predicting killing the deep state to make the argument these internet giants have to be regulated. we'll have to have fundamental rights incorporated into the internet giants even if it involves antitrust action to pick them up.

>> host: you write about james comey, to think trump would've been better not firing james comey and befriending the deep state or working with it rather than fighting it? >> guest: the only mistake trump made was not to fire james comey immediately. james comey was happy to smile at trump and they go about sticking a knife in his back. what comey did was the same thing andrew mccabe did. he wrote secret memos to themselves documenting meetings. anyone with experience in the corporate world knows the self-serving memos written by you to the file have limited value. you're probably trying to make the version you want trying to make the other person look bad. i don't think it's any accident

that comey's book will be published on top of my book "killing the deep state". the new york times upon over the book. it will be viewed as a barter of victim and he'll be pretrade as having a higher honor which i think is the title of the book. none of them will dare to interview me about killing the deep state. it's remarkable the book has already become number one the various categories in amazon and is one of the better selling books, maybe one of the best-selling books ever written on tunnel trump and his presidency. it will be constantly fought by the mainstream media which does not want you to hear what i wrote in, killing the deep state. >> you have examples of comey and mueller working together in

the past on several projects. one was the marc rich part who is a oil trader and traded with iran during the embassy hostage crisis. you want to give an overview? >> host: what's the point of including the story? >> this is where the partnership started. there are fewer think are significant. i'm writing about them today. one is that the role that mueller played when he was head of the fbi making sure that the rhenium one bribery scandal which have been revealed by campbell which is now a client, married to judge to jennifer who is working with the president. >> the point is, mueller played

a cover up role because had that scheme been known by the committee of foreign investment in the united states, permission for russia's -- their state-owned energy company to buy uranium some of which was shipped out of the united states contrary to the lies told at the time. that provision would not have been granted. bill clinton would not have gotten $5000 fee for one speech. the clinton foundation would not have gotten $145 million in contributions. >> host: i believe the hillary clinton people have said she had nothing to do with the approval. >> she didn't sit on the committee, that's absurd. everybody who had a brain knew what was going on.

hillary clinton said i will not sit on this one. the person she appointed as her surrogate had a vested interest in pleasing her. the hong kong bank which was laundry monday, billions of dollars for drug criminals and for international terrorist, john cruz, banker from long island came to me with a thousand pages that he walked out of the bank with trying to blow the whistle. in my banking experience this was clear evidence of money-laundering. was contacted by the department of homeland security and ultimately ended up with $1.9 billion finding paid. comey was on the board when this happened. >> so he was sitting on the board of the bank been accused.

>> as a board he had responsibility over the banks responsibility mueller was head of the fbi. the ritalin which was u.s. attorney negotiated that nobody goes to prison. on this people working together which is a long-term relationship, it is impossible they control this and i found out the long island branches that he would not be listened to. he tried to talk to these people. they can only see money-laundering going on. you cannot run the drug industry without the intelligence agencies been involved.

this cast of characters was a cover up artist. >> host: you wrote, by allowing the bank for criminal charges despite pleading guilty to money laundering violations for both the drug cartel, comey, mueller and lynch were playing major roles as deep state operatives. serving on the chess piece he bank board was not comey's only chance to cash in on his service to the deep state of his various fbi and doj assignments. in 2005 - 2010, he served as general counsel and senior vice president for lockheed martin. major u.s. military contractor. job search here and $6 million. >> that's a nice payoff. wikileaks pointed out that comey in 2009 trip to russia where

hillary had mueller went on the trip had robert mueller traveled to russia with some uranium samples that were from a theft in east germany. but the point was, what was mueller doing on the trip? what was that visit to russia about by russia in 2009? why did it take wikileaks to reveal it from state department cables that wikileaks got a hold of. these deep state operatives have ties that i think are shocking. it's shocking to see the extent to which hillary clinton, barack obama and robert mueller have been working together over the years of various projects. >> is there any plus side to the notion of a deep state?

no single president of any administration could do that much to drastically change or the country? >> john kennedy said he should break up the cia into a thousand pieces and he replaced -- as the head of the cia. the mistake john kennedy made was to not to it that day. if you have a rogue apparatus in the cia, it is no surprise that tea party activists cannot get their 5o1c3 and for operations approved. it's no surprise that the politicalization of the department of justice was aimed at the detriment of law-enforcement, joe arpaio be in pardon, perez went after arpaio for criminal violations of a court imposed set of rules

that had to do with antidiscrimination and car stops of hispanics. president trump pardoned arpaio and now a lawyer of history the leader of the democratic national committee, this is the hard nature of these organizations. i cannot see a benefit to weapon iced and politicized partisan fbi, named them all industry. i think president trumps frustrations in dealing with this our parent when he says let's tear down and start over. >> host: to kill the deep straight you say donald trump must defeat mueller's plan to remove him from office. do you want to elaborate on

that? >> this investigation has come to an end. mueller is out of gas. he is now fishing. and putting it to an end, the clearest way and i recommended articles i have been writing and in the book is to get mueller himself under criminal investigation. let's get an honest grand jury that targets and subpoenas robert mueller to produce documents from the uranium one investigation. when they legitimately call in the department of justice i believe mueller will resign. >> host: is there anything trump should have done differently in terms of sites acting more quickly in your terms to get rid of comey? is he responsible for making think so hard on himself? >> guest: there's nothing trump can do that these mainstream

media, these media matters motivated groups funded behind the scenes, if trump orders russian salad dressing for lunch will be evidence he's conspiring with. there's nothing he can do. no matter what he does. i had press credentials to travel the last three weeks in 2012. the job of the press was not to cover the speech on economics, it was to ask questions about abortion or anything they could get headlines on. to fly around and joke with each other about who did the best article that made romney look like a jerk. when you're dealing with the deep state in this vocal farm in the their job with giggling with

each other and what they accomplished make it look bad, donald trump is right in targeting that's why my book is called killing the deep state. it's gotta be put to an end. the left thinks all have this identity politics socialist european-style communist utopia once we can politicized the entire government to make sure no conservative is a lot of social media. everybody has lawsuits and put in prison were sent to reform camps. they never realize that a deep state can turn on them too. should not have a politicized and well-placed bureaucracy. we do if you look at this special system protecting

bureaucrats from being fired because their senior managers, maybe we start dealing with the bureaucracy about by fiery bureaucrats but by closing agencies. >> for those who will not be the book and say you're just a conspiracy theorist, what you say? >> there and i can a look at the 20 pages of footnotes or the documented evidence. what's happening is the narrative is changing. trump is fighting a propaganda attack. the says there's no russian evidence. they said we have to look harder. way to defeat that is to undermine those advancing it. we realize the crimes committed, the line under a the leaking of

information which could go up to the obama white house, unmasking name to leaking. these are crimes. the american people understand crimes are committed and sees them, these two lovers, the 10000 instant messages are eye openers and the american people are ready. >> does the deep state winner donald trump? >> guest: donald trump. >> it's been a pleasure. [inaudible conversation] >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies.

today we bring you a filtered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> five, wednesday and c-span. at noon eastern on c-span, discussion on countering violent extremism. at 2:00 p.m., the wilson center looks at transatlantic after the u.s. with job the iran nuclear agreement. as he spent to a 9:00 a.m. the national league of cities releases the annual state of the city's report. at noon eastern on c-span2, the cato institute considers congresses war powers and how congress can reassert itself the

decision process. at 2:30 p.m., the state of action climate. >> sunday on q&a, the moralist, woodrow wilson of the role he played. >> their psychological information about wilson. i read it and i had a sense that it reduced to true tangled that i did not feel like i could deal with on the strength of my own knowledge and theory that he was a father. some people have said his stubbornness and later life was a reaction to his father strictness and they can point to a story where his father made him revise something he wrote several times.

the vision is that wilson resented this. but when you read every mention, their worshipful. they never had an unkind word to say. >> sunday night on q&a. >> in war and peace journalist writes about the shift in u.s. foreign policy the trump administration cuts to state department budgets. he talked about his book with james holmes. this is one hour. [applause]