please buy your book. if you want your book signed, please come back to the stage. we'll do book signing on the stage. thank you again. [inaudible conversations] >> c-span launched booktv 20 years ago on c-span2, and since then we've covered thousands of authors and book festivals including more than 40 programs with u.s. presidents. in 2004 then-senator barack obama spoke about his book, "dreams from my father." 9. >> but i believe in american exceptionalism that there is something special about this nation precisely because this is a nation that is heterogenerallous, and it is forced to constantly confront the fact that we're different. and yet somehow there are a set of core values and common beliefs that can bind us together as a single people.

>> you can watch this and all other booktv programs from the past 20 years at booktv.org. type the author's name and the word "book" in the search bar at the top of the page. >> host: and gina loudon, author of "mad politics: keeping your sanity in a world gone crazy," is our guest here at the miami book fair. thank you so much for joining us. >> guest: pleasure to be here, for having me. >> host: who's mad at who when it comes to politics? >> guest: there's a lot of vitriol out there. i think wehe saw it certainly in the midterm elections, and i think it's nothing that some real communication that's honest and forthright can't cure, but i don't know that's the direction we're going yet. i don't know if the -- i think the average rank and file person out there really does want to communicate withh people that disagree with them and learn from them and listen to them. but the problem, i believe, and i wrote about this in "mad politics" is that we've become

such click bait media-based media that a lot of times we're not given the opportunity to really have the civil discourse or to read a headline that's completelyha forthright. because everybody's competing for those eyeballs. especially printia media and especially cable news. >> host: now, in your view, has donald trump contributed to our current political situation? >> guest: i know that the answer on it face would seem to be yes, but i really don't think that that's ever been his intention at all. i think that he is, you know, definitely a counterpuncher. i'm not going to smooth over any of that. you know, i'm from the midwest, and in the midwest people find that amusing, they can laugh, you know, along with him and not think that it's anything that he meant, you know, the way that maybe some people on the coasts who are a little more perhaps prim and proper might judge. but i really don't -- i think that donald trump is a big part of my book, big part of my life,

in fact, and i don't mean to shy away from thatth at all. but i don't know that he's withstanding in what media has become in terms of the click bait issue that i believe ultimately polarizes us. you know, i believe that to get the attention that media used to have to be ableia to make the money that they need to make, they have to write some salacious headlines. they have to report news in a salacious way. and i think that's what has divided us the most, if that makes sense. >> host: what's yourt backgroun? >> guest: my background is inth psychology. i have an undergrad in sigh cooling and a few -- sigh cooling, and a few -- psychology, and a few graduate degrees. >> host: how did you get involved in politics and writing about politics? >> guest: you know, my dad, actually, is a leftist activist. and we used to, in his office he, he's an inventer, dentist. we used to listen to paul harvey. you remember paul harvey? yeah. and we used to talk about it and

debate. and so i, you know, i grew, and my politics as part of my underpinning from those experiences with my dad and learned to love the debate of it but also learned to love, you know, that you can actually affect your government in ways that you feel passionately about. you can actually affect your own life and your own -- your children's future and things by being engaged in the process. i gained a very healthy respect for my dadmy and his activism ad the degree to which he carved out his life for it and wanted to do the same thing. i'm not sure he really meant for me -- [laughter] but he got halfway there. he raised an activist anyway. >> host: so how does human behavior and psychology play a role in our political thinking? >> guest: so much. and i think too much of news addresses the what and doesn't bother to address the why. and i think that's a part where i feel very, you know, sort of called to lend my voice to the

degree that i can to talk about the fact that, t you know, we hr all of this vitriol in the political arena, but look around. look around you right now. these are people from all different walks of life, all different geographical places, all different races, ethnicities, religions and so on. so there is a part of our human psyche that wants to know people that are from different places, that think differently than us, that believe differently than us. we want to know and we want to understand. there's a curiosity there. so this paints everybody as either, you know, different from you or somehow racist or marginalized or dehumanizes people to where i think it gets really dangerous for their political beliefs. i think it's to skip over, hard to get to where you are. even if i think you're wrong, how did you get there, and why do we disagree on this, and do we agree on some things that we might be able to work together on? and i think that's the really potent part of civil discourse and humannd connection, if you will, that the media has sort of

cast aside in order to get, to be a business that they have to be today. there didn't used to be the belevel of competition in media there is now, but there's so much competition now that just to make a living, you've got to be the one that writes that headline that everybody's going to read whether or not it's completely accurate. >> host: 202 is the area code, 748-8200 in the east and central time zones, 202-748-8201 for those of you in the mountain and pacific time zones. dr. gina loudon is our guest, "mad politics: keeping your sanity in a world gone crazy." we're going to try to work in a couple of phoneil calls in the time that we have with her, but i h wanted to ask you a couple f questions. number within, you talk about political -- number one, you talk about political correctness. what's your view i of what it is and what it means? >> guest: i think that political correctness is a sort of group think that has sort of permeate our political culture and that if you belong to a certain party or even a certain religion or

even a certain race or are from a certain country, you're supposed to believe this. and, you know, i just spent the last six years of my life in california living right ona, the border, and all of my friends were pretty much immigrants of one form or another. and i learned that, you know, a lot of them don't believe what the news media tells you they believe. and, you know, just because the news media expects them to all be one way, i found this just recently in a recent election where they talk a lot about the women's vote, how women were supposed to vote a certain way based on their gender. to me, that marginalizes the complication and the complexity of what it means to be human, youno know? almost nobody thinks completely monolithically along anybody's prescribed lines politically. but, so i think we have to be carefulng about putting people n boxes all the time. >> host: trump derangement syndrome.ra >> guest: yes.

>> host: wanted to ask you what you thought about that. is it a real thing? >> guest: it is a real thing. there is a reaction to him because he's not that prepared, plastic politician that has all the consultants that he asks before he moves his right hand. so there is something about him, i think, that really -- you either really love him or really hate him if you're politically involved in those cases. i don't meet a lot of people that say donald trump, oh, yeah, i like him sometimes. most people have a very strong opinion. so there is a trump derangement syndrome where i think people will perhaps say, for example, that all trump supporters believe this or that all trump supporters are, you know, bad people. you know, we'veve seen the attas on people based on their politics, you know, on some politicians. we saw whatpp happened to rand paul, for example, and some other politicians in washington, d.c. and even other politicians in washington tease on the anti-trump side of the aisle. not necessarily con to demming -- condemning violent

behavior against someone simply because they're in the same party as donald trump? rand paul, for crying out loud, he ran against donald trump. just because he was in the same party, he tends to be put into that same box. i think the box-putting is a dangerousda thing and something that i warn about repeatedly in the book. >> host: well, let's take some calls. >> guest: sure. >> host: karen's in rhode island, you're onre with dr. gia louding, "mad politics" is the name of theit book. >> caller: hi. my questionqu is what is your specific field that you earned your ph.d. in, and how do you explain trump's daily lying? >> guest: well, i don't think trump is someone who lies. if you have a specific question that you're referring to, that's great. i'm sure happy to address it if i can. my -- i have two masters degrees and a ph.d.. the ph.d. is in human and natural development, so i've studied a lot about human

behavior, and that's what i like to study. human behavior, though, within the system; within the political system, the s business system, within the global system. that's b sort of always been my focus is how does that one person sort of fit into the group. >> host: jim acosta, cnn, and donald trump. >> guest: yes. >> host: what's your take? >> guest: i think when it becomes about the reporter, the reporter is doing a disservice to other reporters and to his audience. i certainly believe, i'm a huge advocate of the bill of rights butst certainly the first amendment. i'm glad that cnn has, for example, somewhere around 50 that do cover the white house, so jim acosta is just one of them. because ibe do believe in a free press press very strongly, and i would fight for that, you know, to my i doing day. -- to my dying day. so that's sort of where i stand on. that i, obviously, understand the frustration of the president

where he feels like his message is often not completely communicated or not communicated honestly. and i think that that's a problem. i wish that the media would just report the news unless you're an opinion journalist, which a lot ofof us in media are too, but tn say you're an opinion journalist, and i don't know if you need to be covering the white house, for example. it's a controversial one, for sure. >> host: skip's in waterbury, connecticut. go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: yeah. as an air force vietnam veteran, i can't see how you can support a man who had five deferments and never served. >> guest: i'm sorry, i couldn't understand -- >> host: scholarship said that as a vietnam veteran, he doesn't know how you could support a man who never served in the armed forces. >> guest: yeah. well, i mean, there have been otherr presidents that haven't served in the armed force as well. i do love what the president has done for thehe veterans. he's, obviously, a huge advocate for the veterans.

a lot more money, and he's slowly and surely fixing the problems we saw in the v.a. where veterans were often dying. i also knowi a more personal sie of him in that i live in florida where, you know, he's spent a lot of time, and i've met a lot of people, veterans especially, that he has gone completely out of his way to do things for. this is before he was running for anything. this was him as a human being. he's always had a love, a true love for veterans. i tell you what, i wish -- if i could go back and serve, i would love to. and i never did serve either. i'm certainly not going to run forr president -- [laughter] but while i love the idea of a president who has served, and i do think that makes you a strong ther person in a lot of ways for a lot of fields, i haven't, and so i'm not somebody to judge. i love our veterans too, and so i don't know how to judge someone else because they didn't serve. >> host: what is your role in the trumpe 2020 campaign? >> guest: well, right now i'm ristill, serve on his media advisory board, and so that's for the trump 2020 campaign, and

that's somebody who just, you know, communicates with the media exactly like what i'm doing with you right now. >> host: citizen somebody who studied -- as somebody who studied human behavior and somebody who supports donald trump, would you like him to stop tweeting? >> guest: no. i'm afraid if he he stops tweeting, i realize there are some i wish he didn't tweet, but he doesn't ask me first. [laughter] i'm afraid if he stops tweeting, he would lose his connection with the american people. there are a lot of people that really relate to him because of his tweets. they see the human side of him that maybe even the human frailty, the really human side of him from those, and i think also the media, sadly, just can't report everything about him. so if he wants something to be communicated, whether it's good economic news that gets glossed over by some of the more left-leaning cable networks or whatever, i think it's important that he has that communication tool. soon it doesn't matter what i think, because he's going to do what he wants to do. but, no, i personally a lot of

times laugh out loud when i read his tweets. [laughter] >> host: maury's in plano, texas. you're on with joan that louden. >> caller: hi. as a beautiful woman, how can you support a man who's a womanizer and trashes women all theu time? >> guest: yeah, i don't -- i certainly know that he has a past of many people, you know, who have lived a hollywood/billionaire life, certainly. and i, you know, i just think that there's a lot of people out there in the world who have lived a life to a certain point that maybe they're not proud of. i'm not proud of every decision i made, certainly, in my younger life asou well. i think that, i just -- for me, it's kind g of a grace thing whe i just think, you know, if he's improving our economy, if he's helping our veterans, if he helps women today and he has more women on his administration if, i think, than i think the last administration and certainly maybe any

administration, i also think when you look at things like unemployment at an all-time, historic low for women, i mean, these are the kinds of things that, to me, your actions now speak louder than your words and speak louder than your past. and if so i judge him on what he's doing today. >> host: next call is thomas in humble, texas. hi, thomas. >> caller: hey, gina, how's it going? everybody's writing books these days. >> guest: they are, yes.. [laughter] >> caller: everybody has a book. i don't care who it is. anyway, p.c. doesn't mean political correctness anymore. it's progressive capitalism. you know, like the green party, windmills, solar and all that, you know? it's about money. t'even marijuana. finish you know, it's like a $10 billion industry now? anyway, trump, hey, let him do his eight years. iwa want to see all his policie. so if they, you know, if he's

right, great. if he's wrong, we'll be calling you folks and reading your books. what happened? just like in 2005 and in 2008. oh, what happened to the banks, my house and all that? and they blamed the mexicans. what mexican or black guy owned a house, you know? you wasn't bailing out us. you would have been bailing out, uei guess, 75% of the white people. but, you know, hey, i'm looking forward to i reading your book. and one more thing, the -- [inaudible] from obama runs out in -- stimulus from obama runs out in 2024, and then we'll see. have a good one. >> host: that was thomas in humble, texas. [laughter] any response to him? aanything you want to add to that? >> guest: i was having a little trouble understanding. >> host: yeah. there wasn't really a question in there, just some statements. we'll just let them stand at that.. >> guest: okay. >> host: in your book, gina loudon, "mad politics," you ask yourself if you're a racist.

>> guest: well, i did at a certain point. >> host: right. and you write about that, i should say. >> guest: i think it's important everyone should search their souls for any bigotry of any kind, and i think that's something we should do on a regular basis. there's bigotry now that didn't used to be the same that we saw, for example, 50 years ago. and so i do think it's important, because if you're holding d if you're harboring resentment against a group of people foron belonging to a gro, whatever that group is, whether it's a racial group, a political group, a religious group, whatever, i think that's a calling on you incumbent upon us as human beings to dig into that culture and get to know those people and figure out, as i said before, what you can agree on and work together on. that even my dad and i who disagree pretty much straight down the line on everything, we have our things that we can agree on. and we do try to work together on those things. i've noticed i have a big animal rights side of me.

that's a big thing for me. i happen to have a huge heart for animals as does laura trump, eric trump's wife. we work with a lot of people who didn't ever vote for donald trump, right? i think it's important to do that, not to just stay in our tribe, you know? you have to get outside of your tribe. i don't think t that you need to impose that by some sort of government regulation, i'm just saying i think it's incumbent upon us as human beings to do that. >> host: gina dowden, members of the cabinet, members of congress who happen to be republican or support donald trump being attacked inn restaurants or not allowed in restaurants. what's your take? yeah. that's a form of bigotry as well, and i think that we have to take a hard look at ourselves in this nation if we're going to tolerate violence or kicking people out of restaurants or, you know, attacking people's families in their private moments. we saw what happened to tucker carlson's family out, you know, in his home. a terrifying thing, must have

been, for his wife. we saw a package of white powder sent to the home of donald trump jr. and his children. those kind of things arerfying. i don't want that to finish terrifying. i don't want that to happen to anyone, especially someone i whs put their life out there. i don't care what party. my husband or or or is in the state of missouri as a state senator, and to think that my family, my children would be attacked in a restaurant for what my husband's work was? i just think that's wrong in every way, and i hope that people on both sides of the aisle will stand up against it because it will come back around where democrats are in power someday and have the presidency, and i don't think this is the kind of behavior that u any of s really want to be condoned. i with wish that the more left-leaning politicians would do a better job of condemning it. >> host: mike's in clifton park, new york. hi, mike, you're on with author ginado loudon. >> caller: yeah. i find it highly offensive that you allow yourself to be

presented as a psychologist or even related to a psychologist. i'm licensed in two states, or i'm a real psychologist, your supposed graduate degrees are from mail order schools -- >> guest: that's not true. >> caller: you're not a licensed psychologist, are you? i'm licensed in two states. so for you to present yourself isic highly unethical -- [inaudible] >> host: okay, is that the point you wanted to make? >> caller: and the real finish well, the point i'm making is that she's not a real psychologies, and people a are going to take her ignorance as a possible real opinion when she's just a right-winger who's, you know, presenting, you know, opinions that are not even -- >> host: all right. mike, i think we got your point. let's get a response from our guest, gina loudon. >> guest: sure. well, yeah, obviously, i do have a degree in psychology. no, i have not sat for licensure, i've been doing m th. but i did my clinicals,

internships, and i don't have any degrees from any mail order institutions at all. you know, my background being in human behavior, what i usually refer to myself is as a human behavior expert, you know, human and organizational development expert, those sorts of things. sometimes people will call people psychologists because they know that they do something psychological -- [laughter] but that's not me. and anyway, don't, you know, i ithave no desire to a to do a clinical practice. that's not what i do. iho do media, and i study how humans work -- like i described when you asked me about that in the first place. that's my study and that's my interest. and i've done extensive research, and i've written for years about all of these topics. again, if people like the caller could get over this vitriol that i'm on the right, i doubt if this caller would have the same problem with some people. i do have a totally genuine

ph.d. and two masters degrees and, in m fact, three different universities my degrees are, and none of them are mail order. i don't know where that -- that's somebody put out there on social media, but it's just not true. >> host: how did "mad politics" come about? did regnery approach you, did you approach regnery? >> guest: i'd been collaborating with them on other things. there was a speaking organization that i work with and got to know them, and it was sort of a collaborative thing, to be honest with you. >> host: and we're going to take one more quick call, and this is from pat in norfolk, virginia. pat, you're on booktv. >> caller: hi, how are you, gina? >> guest: hi, pat. i'm well, thanks. how are you? >> caller: with i am very, very impressed with your background. i am an 85-year-old conservative republican, very involved in politics. at the age of 15, i was president of the young republicans.

but two or three questions ago a woman asked you why trump lies. i'm going to ask you the same question, and the reason being i have voted in every election since i turned 21. but this last time i looked at the little o. i came from new hampshire to virginia. i moved from -- so you know where new hampshire's like. -- what new hampshire's like. we don'tct have the electronic voting. and i looked at that little thing on the ballot, and i walked out, and i left it blank. he's doing some good, but he's so dishonest. okay. you've got a background in behavior with people, and he does lie. why? >> guest: if she could just give me one example. >> host: you know what? we're not going to have time. >> guest: oh, okay. i don't know how to defend such a broad thing -- [laughter] but i would love to hear one example if because he doesn't

strike me, honestly, as a dishonest person. i feel like a lot of the things he'se said have been misconstrud in the media starting with his trip down the elevator which i addressed when he made the statement that many have said was about the mexicans. that's just not what he said. i wrote it out word for word in my book and explained it. and many other things since then. for example, like the muslim banker remember that? well, that was obama's list of countries, and many people thought that was such a horrible thing. those were obama's list of people. thest separating children at the border, that was obama's policy. there were a lot of things i just feel haven't been communicated in the media that people just misunderstand, and i just don't know of any outright lies that this president's told, but i'm happy to address them if someone wants to send them to me one-on-one. >> host: "mad politics: keeping your sanity in a world gone crazy." dr. gina loudon, forward by sean

hannity. thanks for being on booktv. >> guest: thanks for having me, peter. >> over the past 20 years, booktv has covered thousands of books and book festivals. here's a portion. >> the first myth is that we understand it. you know, we study it, we have books on it, we categorize ourselves as leaders. but i went through a lifetime of trying to lead, trying to learn to lead as my co-authors did, and yet we never really felt we got it. so we went back to first principles with this book, "leaders," we went always way to blew dark, and we said, all right, let's go back to first principles, figure it out. and we started studying it, and the conclusion we came to was a little upsetting. that leadership is not what we think it is, and it never has been. we have lived with this mythology about leadership. >> you can watch this and any of our programs in their entirety at booktv.org. type the author's name in the search bar