president, david bossie and former campaign manager, cory lewandowski argued that bureaucrats are seeking to undermine the presidency of donald trump. the two are interviewed by investigative journalist, sharyl attkisson of "smear". afterwards is a weekly interview interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. >> thank you for turning us. i thought we'd begin with the short version, a synopsis if you will -- >> i got a chance to meet donald trump. i've known the president for quite some time. i got to meet the president because i was trying to raise money for children's hospital in washington d.c. when my son had one of his major surgeries.

we were very blessed to be able to have great medical care for my son. he wanted to help other families. we wanted to raise money. i got a chance to meet mister trump because we were being at a golf at a golf course in washington but he ended up buying. we were able to, i got a chance to know him because he wanted to help me with that mission of helping children. was something i didn't forget or take lightly. he understood that i was a political guy. i became one to ask questions. he never came to d.c. often. but we got to become friends over the years and it was a tremendous cathartic evolving that he had when i saw him in

2012, 13, 14 and 15 looking at running for president. i saw what went into the process. corey and i wrote a book, but trump be trump last year that outlined our involvement in the beginning of that campaign. i hosted an event in new hampshire where i invited mr. trump to come to thousand 14. that's where i introduced him to corey who later he would ask me, who should manage his campaign, i reintroduced them to corey. he went on to win more than anyone, i give credit to the candidate. corey helped him a little. >> introduced you to donald trump? >> yes.

life is so amazing. i got a phone call and he would ask me if i would come to new york city. to meet trump at his office. i had a job at the time but i drove over from new hampshire where i lived and went up to see him at his office, overlooking central park. it was surreal. he sat behind the desk and asked me, if he was going to run for president, i think it could went and what strategy what i employ? i wanted to run the campaign i sold him i wasn't interested. if you come on board, would you run the whole thing? i said i would. then we laid out a strategy, i will, new hampshire and soccer letter. six months later, he came down that big beautiful us later with mrs. trump, now first lady trump, change the direction of our country and i stood by him and sat next to him for thousands of hours, listening to the direction if you wanted to take the country. i knew i was in the right place

and was very fortunate that helping them secure the nomination. >> your book trumps enemies, we are going to go into depth, what would you say that you are going to tell people that would surprise them. i'm looking for more of a summary. >> i think what this is about is two things. reminding the american people that one donald trump came to washington d.c. he was a outside her. he brought in people that not only did he not know, or detrimental to his agenda. we outlined some of the people have since left. the intelligence communities and what they did to a political candidate and his team by using their badges in positions of power through the process to go after individual who fundamentally written from a political side. if you told me in this country in the stain age, the abuse

would take place, i wouldn't have believed it but i've seen firsthand. our book is a detailed analysis of what the intelligence community did not only to candidate trump but men are of this team, and also the mistakes that were made at the beginning of this administration to surround the president with people who were his enemies but they destroyed him from within his own administration. >> i want you to pick it up from there. how critical is it works you wrote you think about this. donald trump entered office from the way, it sounds like filled important positions with people who have never supported him. >> i think many residents, presidents really, go through this transition process and every president before donald trump has had some political machine. whether they were a senator,

governor, what have you. they have been long involved in the political process. they know a lot of people because they're part of the established party. donald trump is truly an outsider. somebody who was elected as a change agent. part of the reason people voted for him and believed in him was that he didn't have this big pottery of establishing figures that would come in, he had to take advice from folks. i think he is part of "becoming" president, he listened a lot to republican leaders in washington and took advice from folks that i don't know he would do that same thing today. to think during the transition in the first month or two of his administration, the learning curve wasn't credibly steep. just like it is for every single president of the united states. there's no classes or degree on being president. it's a learning curve.

i think once he got his hand on it, he has changed. he has moved people out, brought new people in, if you look at the folks like rex and gary and rob order, those folks are gone. you have people like bolton and kudlow and shine in. i think that's much more reflective of who this president is. i think he's managing his administration, his white house. in a way that is much closer to how he ran the trump organization. a businessman, somebody who wants all the information. not just some. he doesn't need gatekeepers. i guess the secret here. the president loves all the information. on all sides of any issue. then you make the best decision that he thinks is right for america as opposed to gatekeepers who are trying to

control the narrative, control what he learns. i think he is somebody recognized that quickly and really has changed how he does the job and i think he recognizes what those deep state enemies and in our book, we talk about that and we'll get into it in depth. that's really the president of this book. all things, congress, media and even those in his administration basement near the beginning, you wrote at a meeting, incoming president trump had with outgoing president obama, which is a friendly meeting with maybe what you call an odd twist. advice president obama gave the president trump which may in some ways, set the stage for those early months. cory lewandowski, tell us about that. >> when the president was a president elect and went down to

the white house, he and trump went to see president obama and the first lady. they went there with an open mind of what it would be like to be the president. it was supposed to be a 90 minute meeting with the president elect and the president turned into a three-hour meeting. during that time, barack obama gave president elect trump a series of information that would help them successful. north korea is going to be a severe, significant threat to your and ministration. he also said to other things. set the stage for the rest of the and ministration. quote anybody tell you who to hire. no matter what. go with your go with your best instinct. then almost in the next breath, barack obama said, but don't hire dental mike flynn. at that time, he was a three-star retired general from the head of defense intelligence agency has been someone who campaigned with donald trump and

the team for a series of months. present elect trump got to know flynn very well. respected his service to the country. we were seriously looking at giving mike flynn a senior position inside the trump administration. but those words, don't let anyone tell you who to hire, with the single exception of mike flynn, set the tone of the entire intelligence community. mike flynn, as a former head of the dia understood the intelligence agency. understood the resources they had, they could bring to bear against individuals and event internationally. what we talk about the book is a relationship that foreigners were afraid of mike flynn because he had a different way of doing things. much like donald trump. is going to come to washington d.c. and fundamentally change the way the intelligence community operates. mike flynn did that with the head of the dia.

candidate trump, president-elect trump did not take the advice from barack obama, ultimately offered dental flynn the job as a national security advisor and then we saw that mike flynn made miss statements to investigators who have not gone back and said they didn't think mike was lying and there's a question as to whether mike is actually, what he has been accused of by the crooked fbi, the person, none other than page in the whole cavell at the fbi. he sat down with an attorney and they charged with perjury in blood guilty to that. there's been real question whether or not that will hold up. that advice set the stage at the beginning. >> i'm going to read a brief excerpts. you wrote, you little doubt that obama let his agency's spiral out of control during his eight years. even going so far as exquisitely

allowing them to conduct surveillance on citizens of the united states out of essex while. not just any citizens but also members of the trump campaign. the people at the top then any in history, they feel threatened by the incoming trump administration. you want to theorize or state that the push against dental flynn might be really part of an intelligence agency conspiracy or operation, make sure he didn't teach beyond the layers of the intelligence agencies had been doing for many years. >> but the great and very important point. in our book, dumps enemies, we got a chance to interview president trump. we sat in the oval office and with him. conducted a 45 minute, several

things in this interview, which reprint in the book. one of the important elements was that the president felt, we asked him, do you believe that barack obama knew about the surveillance operation and you being spike on it, and he said yes. i think that's very important and when whatever mueller does, whatever the report is about. we need to see what mueller says about that. the other issues that the president talks about is, the president talks about how stock and page in their text messages, uncovered that they would we information to reporters. you know this, they would leak information and within the used to go to the court or by law

enforcement agencies for other purposes, extend their leads. testify their investigation or scrutinize people or to get, put out publicly they are being looked at. it's a dangerous thing. this basic circle exists in the sense that law enforcement agencies, fbi agents would week information, get a story out there, then go and used the story to complete the circle to go get a warrant, to go to a judge to use as evidence of a potential crime the president said, don't forget that what these people did, using a badge to go out to people. these people were also watching us. during the campaign, these are bad guys. the men and women of the fbi,

who are by and large incredible agents, the agency is an incredible agency. all americans should respect them and honor. what stock and page and call me did, was leave a mark. a stain on that incredible agency by doing and conducting agents in this way against a political enemy. >> to fine-tune this, we have from our sources, who have seen documentation that is still classified and have told us that they believe barack obama name was in the meeting when these conversations were taking place. there is no way for the former president of the united states to say he didn't know that this insurance policy was in place. the meetings taking place with the highest levels of the government and one name in these documents which continues to be redacted and we believe it's in our sources, that name is barack

obama. >> while on this subject, mentioned insurance policy, at least three people that we know of have used that terminology. it was two fbi officials struck who you of refer to. also a friend of, who wrote before trump elected, we need an insurance policy in case he is elected. some people québec conspiracy theory but that came from the balance of the people themselves. what do you define as the insurance policy from what you saw if one exists, or you say this? i believe,. >> the insurance policy was between struck and page who made a deal with the acting director of the fbi, he had been removed on in it may 9. the same day i should note, he was interviewed the ig and has

been lying under oath on three separate occasions. that insurance policy was to make sure donald trump was never elected president and if he was elected, to the implement the series of events which took place, jim, taking a unverified document in providing it in a restricted meeting that just between jim comay and the president-elect of the united states, he put that document in place and he leaked the information with the hopes of basically overturning, i believe, overturning the outcome of the u.s. election so donald trump never served a day is president and the united states. what i really mean is that jim comay should have never presented in unverified document to the president-elect the united states in classified gift space during the meeting where they went to the nation's most he could have information. he did that so he could go on to

the media and immediately following say the document has not been presented to the president-elect and classified setting in this whole russia collusion investigation all stems from the action of one individual and i was there insurance policy. >> separate from the intelligence agency aspect of this, maybe it's related but you talked about the early days flying that now president trump has gotten his speed like when it comes to his staff and who to trust and who cements them. let's talk about some of the earlier days, some of the people you say whenever trump first who are hired in the administration and maybe the impact that had, in terms of weeks or policy direction or chaos. do want to go down a couple of them yourself? >> i think we can go both ways.

let me just say that we talk about the first secretary of state. we talk about terry cohen, the performer economic advisor. we talk about rob, those are individuals who worked at the highest level of the trump administration. through your actions and through the president observations, he came to understand that they weren't on his team and they were undermining him work playing, slowed the process down whether it was on trade, mostly on trade issues with gary cohen. the president uses and wants to continue to use it and call it was against that. i think we have the story in the book, it's been reported that gary cohen actually took a document off the president's desk.

in the oval office that he took a document off his desk, the president was about designing, to slow down the policy. in order to stall it. to make sure the president didn't enact it at that given moment. i think the president, as he learned about the job, there is no class on being president. there is no masters degree or college degree on it. it's a learned process. every president in american history, all 44, before this president, has had a learning curve. the one thing that they have had is these big political machines but they brought with them. that's the difference here. president trump is starting an administration from scratch. had to build an enormous operation overnight and part of what he was told is being presidential, listening to the guidance of these washington in uses, who will tell him how to

do it and he took the advice and i think he's learned who to take advice from and who not to. >> for these people in your estimation, in fairness, people who differed with president trump on some policy issues? trying to steer him and what they thought was a better direction. or to see some of these people were placed to their to steer things on behalf of other special interest? perhaps money interests. one is more altruistic petition, which may be the case where one is more conspiratorial, the notion that maybe the establishment did not want this president looking in certain corners or changing certain policies. >> i want to be a conspiracy theorist but we refer to many of these people as a november 9. they became a fan of president trump the day after he got elected. they didn't support him during his campaign, they likely didn't

vote for him they found an opportunity to join in and ministration which was young and inexperienced to further their own agenda. we seen this with people who went into certain portions of the executive office building with a overstock policy on specific things that came from the lobbying world in the major difference in clients were taken care of they were in the building so they could return back to them afterwards. that doesn't mean i'm a conspiracy theorist but i do think it means some of the people who serve in administration, did that so to immerse himself. at the cost of the president's agenda. people like guerra and rob, and some others, they had their own agenda as well. they weren't elected to be the president of the united states and look, we saw this too many times. the president asked for a specific policy or specific action to get done, the separate cop and disregard it. it would use that version, selling techniques, goldman is

going to forget. that's not what happens but they use their position as influence with the president to say we can't get it done this way. he wants to get things done. he's a businessman who brought that business mentality to washington and his staff by and large at the beginning, did a very serious disservice to him. and i to the american people. >> mentioned spicer, spokesman for a time. you wrote in the book that he really initially didn't want to be part of the campaign. he came aboard and said, reluctantly, after president trump won, have significant was that? >> right after donald trump became the republican nominee

job saving senate seats governor seat around the country. then we find out donald trump wins, which i knew was going to happen and all of a sudden, he has a conversion and besides, let's go inside the building to emerge myself. that's what he did and i don't think that serve the president well. i don't think he's a person wanted to see jump actually be successful. he is part of the gop establishment and he is a prime example of one of those people who joined with the administration and only. >> carefully and closely as you are, in my not understand you mean when you say the gop establishment is not want to see president trump 60. why wouldn't they, when they

have a candidate who one, even if he is more liberal on some policies that with like, or he wasn't part of the establishment, i wouldn't they advise him and pop was up as much as possible to be successful? >> we've been asking ourselves that. whether it is bob, jeff, whether it's somebody we both respect a lot. they seem to have much more of a problem this president's style, if you will, then his content and his policy objectives and the agenda that he is successful and his long, long list of accomplishments. the president in our interview tells us that if these folks, whether it's bill or any of

these writers around town, around washington d.c., if his name had been josh smith, president smith, with this agenda these accomplishments, he would be considered the most successful republican president of all time. but because they don't like donald trump, he believes they treat him differently. nothing he does is going to satisfy them. they are going to be never trump was until the very end. for them, they look at as an industry. that they have created for themselves. they disagree with this president, even when he is doing things that they have wanted for years and years. including judiciary. you look at the president has done the transfer, the federal sherry.

whether it is judges for the united states supreme court, who conservatives across the board, have fought, thought incredibly high of. even those folks, the bill crystals of the world, it's never good enough. it's not right, they hate this president. more than they love the country. i believe that. >> what is behind the scenes story of what happened with chris christie? the new jersey governor who was, came aboard got behind donald trump at some point and then disappeared from the stage and you write a little bit about what was going on. i don't think the public has heard much about that. >> governor christie is a good friend of mine. i was the person who recommended

that we bring on governor christie as the chairman of the transition team. i was there when governor christie dropped out the presidential race and i was a texas when he came out and endorsed candidate trump and has stood by him. i think christie is a very good and honorable man. i would have loved to have seen him go to the administration. i think there's still an opportunity for him to do that. after president trump became president elect, there was it the decision at the transition seen at the higher levels that they wanted to make a change and bring then vice president elect to be had of the transition team. that included a whole new team. the family think much more involved. governor christie has had a long relationship with mr. trump, he and mary pat have been a trump stir for two decades.

i think you'll see him as an outside advisor, he'll speak on a regular basis but they are, there may come a time when he decides he wants to serve this country again. i'm sure if that is the case, president trump will accommodate him and bring him in for the administration. >> he told fairly early on, president trump was getting advice, and who he was getting it from, we talked about speaker paul ryan coming in and geordie leader mitch mcconnell, you still talked about msnbc host, former congressman and republican party, he -- cohost who by the way used to work with me at cbs, they were giving president trump advice, this is before things went completely wrong between them. now they speak as mortal

enemies. can you ask. [speaking in foreign language] what was the advice they were giving president trump? how did that relationship go from being one, from the advisors to perhaps more contentious relationship. >> right after donald trump became elect donald trump, the called advice and recommendations. it was going to serve as the chief of staff to the white house? that's an important decision. there were only a couple of candidates. joe called me and said we never met with steve at all. could you arrange at the trump tower, they were going to speak with then-president donald trump. they sat with mr. trump and recommended that he become --

>> can talk to? these newspeople, no host, they were analysts, opinion people and newspeople, is it thought they would call you and say, we want a meeting with the president to give advice? i've not done that. i'm a news reporter. i would love to have a meeting with the president. i wouldn't presume to be giving advice on matters. how did that come about? >> outside, crazy world of politics, the people that you talk to in front of the camera, sometimes where the most difficult to work with, are your best friend off-camera. it was not uncommon for personalities, from across the board, right center, left, called me and said i've got recommendations. people from cnn, fox news, but across the board. the ones who are doing the hard

reporting, but those who have talkshows still on television today. we love if you would think about hiring . some time with deep which i did, coming out of that meeting, basically the decision was made that he was going to be the chief of staff. i don't know where they got off the rail but i can tell you, a number of people who you know the people watching the show when, on camera are absolutely scathing to donald trump and his administration and their policies. but off-camera, the call and say, do you think you could consider me for the open communication director? or i'd be honor to work in the white house at some point. maybe some people have no values, i don't know. it's very, very different when you are not in front of the camera.

the future before. >> who did you butt heads with specifically, if anybody, it talks about but to be trump, it remind me of what, didn't they say that about reagan? some people sing [be writing. let him be himself. other people who didn't want trump to be this, who are you butting heads with? what does that mean, anyway? >> when i met donald trump, i saw a man who is 70 years old, made billions of dollars, a difficult thing to do. a man who, wrote bestsellers. he had been successful at a number of things he's accomplished. i never thought it was my job to try and make him somebody he wasn't. if donald trump wants to fire off a tweet about something, it wasn't my job as a staff to tell

him he shouldn't do that. his name was the one on the ballot. i wanted to empower him to be the present he wants to be and bring his message to the american people. people like bob manafort who decided he was going to be more presidential to real donald trump in, to make them a traditional candidate in the sense of mitt romney, who lost the election. they thought that being a traditional candidate like we saw in the primaries of so many others, 17 republican candidates in the field and donald trump distinguishing himself by being straight talking person who went out and told the market people exactly what was on his mind. paul and i had a fundamental disagreement about the way the campaign to be run. because paul was more contemporary to donald trump in age, their grown children, people had not been involved in politics before. but i was no longer capable of managing a successful general

election campaign and so the decision came down to ask me to do something else. that was a disaster. paul lasted eight weeks. now he's spending the rest of his life in prison. >> is there anyway you would go back or are allowed back or want to be back? he's going to run again in 2020. >> we fully expect to continue on what we have been doing for the last two years. the president trump's outside advisors. two people who would tell him what he needs to hear, not necessarily what he wants to hear. two people who will be involved, whether it's as volunteer, helping with messaging on television, or directly involved in the campaign. we'll be helping him get reelected. it is so important, you look at

his accomplishments from the first two years. look at what he's going to do the second two years, to build on that. where american can go in the future. you look at foreign policy, domestic policy, economic policy and you see the transformation that has already taken place in two years. it's a transformation when paul ryan, not exactly on board with the president's agenda. not somebody who in agreement with a lot of policy positions that this president had. but worked with us on certain things and worked against us on others i speak of the house. he's not going to have a democrat house to have to do it. he's when you have a bigger majority in the united states senate. i think that's an opportunity to get more people in his administration. chuck schumer, chuck is really

done america disservice because he is not allowed, to the process who are waiting senate for those. chuck schumer, one person, standing away of the american government, working better, faster, more efficiently and in a way at this president wants because he can't have his people in the shops which allow the career, deep state folks to have much more power and they should have. they are not in those jobs. we are going to continue to talk about his successes, continue to talk about his agenda for the american people. all americans and hope that he puts a team around himself inside the white house. and in his administration that's

going to allow him to succeed in two years. >> you brought up paul ryan. you both wrote, the enemies of president trump congress fall into two categories. the first we have activists who will never have a nice word to say about a booming economy. these congressman recorded in the new stories and constant presence on the never trump networks. the second category you say, we have the quite and including both democrats and a handful of republicans behind the scenes sabotaging shadows. both of these groups of politicians are doing all they can to resist trumps policies for all the wrong reasons. how much is the fact that president trump a republican senate and a republican house but could not get full support behind a lot of things he wanted to do, even when maybe he should have been able to terms of party

affiliation? how critical was that? his first year end a half? >> i think it's a huge missed opportunity for us. i remember the day running of the admin station, the senior members of congress came to meet with the president and they said, if you do healthcare first, you're going to get that done and three months later, we have historic tax done and by november or december, will have passed a historic build to revitalize our country they didn't fulfill their promises. >> the republican party waited until donald trump got elected. to start writing the healthcare legislation to repeal obamacare. not only did the house not get it done right the first time, the u.s. senate didn't even start writing their legislation which is a completely separate document to the house actually passed the bill. they slow walked the president's

agenda. the agenda he went on and there was a huge detriment to the president. we still don't have a transportation for structure spend a build on. looking forward, we have a president with a dealmaker. he's going to reach across and work with nancy pelosi if she's the speaker of the house and say, let's rebuild our roads, let's rebuild the bridges and airports and train stations and see force. we're the biggest economy in the world. our people deserve to drive on roads that are safe and secure not have bridges fold on. that should have been done in the first two years. the republicans in washington d.c. stopped his agenda as they didn't, they couldn't work well enough together so now let's see if we can get something done in the next two years. >> the deep state, always a huge topic. i call it something else, working in d.c. after 20 something years. i realize certain things didn't

change when have a new president coming in you might expect positive change. obama came in and promised complete transparency and overhaul of loss. we were all super mystic, it comes into play, bureaucracy. one of the things you wrote about that. one of the ways in which the deep state abuses its power is by hoarding information keeping it from the public. it's easy to forget but when a person takes a job, it's effectively an employee of the american people. every piece of paper or line of text across his or her desk, is subject to review by the american people. what you're getting at is, when we try to see this information, oftentimes the bureaucrats act as though they own the information, as if a private company and good luck, trying to see it.

>> the organization that i lead as president, citizens united and judicial law are two of the only organizations that have, during the obama administration and since, have been trying to uncover a lot of this information and you have to go, follow it, which we have dozens and dozens of over the last several years. and you have to, they don't respond or answer, they don't give you information you want. you have to go to court. if you believe this, we have a case right now that is going on for information related to the state department and it is victoria newland, a top policymaker at the department of state, somebody who we think was involved with this russian

dossier. and involved in this same people. we issued a subpoena and in court, the state department said it would take 45 to 65 years to give us one years worth of e-mails of this person. it is simply outrageous, you cannot do that. my grandkids would have to go through that information. it is literally a joke. you can't take that seriously. they want to do is narrow the scope, narrow the scope. it's investigation. looking for more clues, not less. you don't know how to narrow the scope. that's how they get your. that's how they don't give you the information. we have continuously had to

fight these battles in court, time and time again. literally, everyday. it's not the way it's supposed to work. the american people should have access to this information. >> you did long interviews. about a lot of these topics. would you say you learned from that, he does a lot of interviews. he's not exactly hard, he doesn't play hard to get in terms of information. or would you say we learned in the interview you have us in? >> we asked him, knowing how the media has treated you and how they dispersed you and attacked your family, to have any regret running for president? knowing you had a great life before. the question, when i asked, was so foreign to him, he has no regrets.

he said that this is the most important thing that is evident and that nobody rises with the job of the president really is. it's the best decision he's ever made, regardless of all the negative stories written against him. he so happy he can take our country in the direction that's going. i said sir, if they can only remember you for one thing, what would it be? he said, the jobs i've created, the economy a black, but people were back to work and the historic members of the african-american community and hispanic immunity and asian american community are working today that they too -- told us two and four years ago they would never come back. he sees the work he's done the first two years as an opportunity to make people's lives better. he knows the more work to do. but i don't think anybody realizes how important it is to him to know our countries on the right track and we are going again. we have nothing to apologize for

being americans and to me, that made me proud. >> if i could, i would add he's right, but one of the other things that came through to me, in the interview, the president believes, truly, that the fake news is incredibly detrimental to america. he believes one of the most important things that he's done is educate the american people on the fake news. if you read the full interview of our time with the president, he talks about that at length. he talks about how reporters get up and give speeches. we saw that with the gentleman from cnn after this interview but he gave it, it was going to happen. these people want to be more

self-importance. they want to be about them. not about uncovering the facts. he doesn't care about getting a negative story, he cares about getting a story that's not actually right. they put in their own biases. that's the biggest issue to him. which is one of the reasons he used twitter during the campaign and he uses twitter today, to speak directly to the american people and educate them on issues in the day. whether it's a small issue or a large issue, he's able to bypass the mainstream media and go directly to the people. it's one of the reasons uses it but to think that was kind of a transformation for him, he always used twitter but how he uses it and why, i think has grown. the power of the message has grown. i take that as one of the big

things. i took with my interview, the president talked about barack obama, knowing about him being spied upon. he talked about the fbi using their badges in an inappropriate way and abuse of power if you will, i think there's many important things people will learn from our interview. it's the first interview that the president has done for a book. we were honored to be able to get that. >> how are the two of you viewed by those in the white house now? if you want to pick up the phone and have a conversation with president trump, would you be able to do that? today tried to block you? >> it depends on which people you are talking about. i think when we talk about this in the book, there are people who fear dave and ice relationship with the president

because we don't want a job, we don't want to work in the warehouse. we want this president to be successful. so the information that we tell him is unbiased, unfettered things no one else is willing to say to him for whatever reason. i think people fear that in so, do they want to limit our axis? sure, we write about in the book. the fact that john kelly requires an escort anytime we are on the white house campus. we can flight on air force one but with the president, i work with the vice president and see him all the time but if we are on the campus, john kelly gets notified every time dave and i come to the white house and he makes sure we have an escort as we walk on the campus. i think it's a sad thing. we are two guys who are only here to help the present be successful. television through office work a policy matter that we help on

capitol hill if we can, any way we can, it's unfortunate, so do i think the people restrict our axis? you bet i do. does it stop us? no chance. >> where does john kelly fit in this? either helping him or maybe not helping him. >> i think when john came in to the white house to establish a sense of order and rules and policies and procedures, was probably necessary. it seemed to me the west wing was wild in the first six or seven months. i think what happened in it's gone in the opposite direction, most people believe john has checked out. here these rumors all the time that he's going to leave with intellectual or not, except for the president to decide. we know john is the first chief of staff, who had no political background and no media background and i think that hurt

the president during the midterms. many believe in the white house, that the president should be behind the resolute desk, making policy discussions and limiting who speak to the president. i believe he's best when he's on the road. he's out talking to the american people. interacting with others, having the conversation. that's why think he has excelled. that's why he won, his presidency because he outworked his opponents. he went directly to the american people. >> would you take only fbi director you thought called him the last boy scout? >> i worked with jim coming for a short period. he was a staff member along with me, working on the senate.

he was the chairman, michael was the chief counsel. he had an incredible team of people who are dedicated to uncovering the truth about the clinton administration at the time. james, he was one of those folks who worked with us there. he left the committee, they had a tragedy in the family and it was an incredible terrible thing for jim and his family to go through. so i know him and i know what kind of person he is and in my view, before this. and i did, called him the last boy scout. he was always happy to see that he was in these positions over the last 20 years because i said, this guy, he does the right thing. little did i know that as the fbi director, from the use of

this, from having andy and strock and page and all of these characters really within the fbi, running an operation within insurance policy. misusing the application process. having james comey drop this dossier in order to leak it, for james comey to leak information through this columbia professor, in order, in his own words, to get a special counsel appointed. all of those things, things that i never thought that i would see somebody that i thought had the highest integrity. i was incredibly is appointed. for those reasons, and i just look back and i just don't understand where he could have gone wrong. it looks like it's all about jim coming.

at least in the final stretch. it became about him and his work with this president. i think he got in a position where he hated president trump more than he loved his country. that's a difficult for me to say because i respect him but that's where it comes down. >> in fairness, the possible looking at the other side, that, he didn't change, he said he thinks what he has done his right, because for whatever reason, he thinks trump is not good for the country or a thre threat? >> that could be, you are right. i wish i could believe in the thinking that that would be a good thing. sixty plus million americans voted for president trump. they voted for him for a reason.

that was one of the reasons, he was going to change it. somebody come and break this broken status quo in washington d.c. gridlock, bad policies, with korea. our economy, you name the issues. they voted for their own reasons. it's not one person's job to upend an election. it's not one person's job to try to use his power to overturn an elected president of the united states. never had that happen before. i that i like to never see it happen again. whatever, residents of the democrat party and i don't think the misuse of power justifies the end. >> the presidential counsel investigation, robert mueller will go down in history as the most critical part of this

president, the beginning of his first term. how you view the molar investigation and robert mueller specific role is considering his face as a respected man, former fbi director but friend of commie, someone in charge during some of these surveillance abuses, what is your take on that? >> i think the whole premise of the special counsel investigation was built on a, never gotten off the ground. now here is where we are. he's investigating a collusion cooperation between trump campaign and russia were outside entity for two years. there is no evidence. i was there by and large for most of the campaign and no we did not coordinate or collude cooperate with any outside force. the only campaign that did that was the clinton campaign took $5 million give it to a british to

go to russia to come up with a false dossier and put it into the hands of crooked fbi ravens and use it to secure words to spike and american citizens in violation of the fourth amendment on u.s. soil within the political beliefs. i think mueller commie have been best friends for a long. of time when jim coming was the deputy attorney general, mueller was his direct support. they've known each other for a long time. i call into question if he can actually be disengaged enough to come up with what really transpired. there was no collusion. the only peel -- people, the individuals who did things, that predated their time, 20, ten, 20, 30 years ago or lied to the fbi about what really took place. what we have seen is to separate sets of rules. we've seen one set of rules for the conservatives, for the trump

people who like to the fbi and are not being prosecuted, sent to jeff, we seem separate set of rules for the clinton people are given immunity by literally, peter strock, who gave immunity to testify against hillary clinton. hillary clinton who basically lied to the fbi, on multiple occasions who's never been prosecuted. not one referral. two separate sets of rules. we had better have accountability not just the molar investigation, in my opinion, to be made public for every american to be exactly what is in there because after two years, tens of millions of dollars, the american people have the right to see that this set that trump campaign was involved in a collusion didn't exist, that should be made public. there should be referrals for the people on the other side who nota bene, give it to christopher steele and went

after individuals in the trump campaign based on the political beliefs and not one criminal referral for those people has happened yet and that's a shame. >> you go into detail about all of this in the book. the name of the book is trumps enemy. the interesting inside look behind the scenes. thank you both for describing the book with us today. >> thinks for having us. >> thank you. >> if you like to view other afterwards programs online, something go to our website at booktv.org. ...

>> >>