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tv   HUD Secretary Carson Testifies on Oversight of Housing Regulations  CSPAN  June 9, 2020 11:25pm-1:35am EDT

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testimony who heads the federal housing finance agency. this hearing will come to order. room has been configured to maintain the recommended six that socialco distancing between senators, witnesses and other individuals in the room necessary to operate the hearing which we have kept to a minimum. some members will be here and arpresent. the witnesses were here in person and others will be coming in by videoconference. i remind everyone once you start speaking there will be a slight delay before you've are displayeyou are displayedon theg in remotely to minimize background noise please click on the mute button until it is your turn mun to speak or ask questi.
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if there's any technology issue as usual, we will move to the next senator until it is resolved.. i will remind all the five-minute clock still applies. you should all have a box on your screen so those of you operating remotely will show the time that his remaining. after 30 seconds i'm going to try to remember to tap the gavel to remind senators their time is expiring. with that, we welcome our federal housing regulators. the honorable secretary of housing and urban development and the honorable director of the federal housing finance agency. welcome back to all of you. today we will receive testimony on your agency's recent activities, operations and ongoing efforts too promote
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access to quality affordable housing while also ensuring the safety and soundness of housing finance market. your agency missions have never been more critical. the description of covid-19 has hit homeowners and the housing tmarket especially hard. we've already seen a huge number of mortgage borrowers and forbearance while many are struggling to make ends meet and countless renters are unsure if they will be able to make their next payment. in march, fha acted swiftly to prohibit for closures for millions facing financial hardship due to the pandemic. soon after, congress passed the coronavirus aids relief and economic security act codifying that extending these protections are providing relief to the renters. title iv of the outcome tends to be housing provisions.
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4022 imposes a 60 day eviction and foreclosure moratorium for the single-family borrowers with a federally backed mortgage loan and also allows struggling homeowners up to one year loan forbearance. section 4023 extends similar relief to those that are current on their mortgage payments. >> for those that live in the multifamily units to participate in a federal assistance program or have a government-backed mortgage. to further soften the economic blow of the pandemic across the
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many communities served. in addition to implementing the care act, the fhfa have taken actions to further protect borrowers and mortgage services during the pandemic. agencies have extended the foreclosure moratorium for qualifying homeowners through at least the end of june. the agencies have also taken steps to ensure they are not facing large looming death payment. they will no not owe a lump sumt the end of the forbearance. they further announced the new payment deferred option which allows the borrowers that are able to return to making their normal monthly payment the ability to repay their missed payments at the time the home is sold or refinanced with maturity. they similarly have component of the national emergency partial claim, national emergency
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partial claim which allows eligible borrowers and forbearance to reinstate their loans by authorizing servicers to the defense fund them on their behalf like the fhfa repayment is the third until the back end of the loan. uin recognizing the undue burdn that the pandemic is placed on the mortgage servicingon indust, sfhfa have acted quickly to address the liquidity gap. it extended the issue or assistance to include the past for assistance program which allows the servicers to apply for assistance in meeting principal interest payments and they've announced no mortgage service or will be responsible for advancing more than four months of the best principles payments on a loan. while america has taken steps to return to work and relax the stay-at-home orders, the recovery is only just beginning.
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for the collaboration at this time i think you. the committee is also focused on working to identify and taylor over burdensome regulations in the effort to create conditions that will lead to a forceful economic recovery. secretary carson, i apply to you for the efforts to identify and eliminate 33 barriers to they've taken a step towards safety and soundness and proposing a thorough thoughtful of the three g. network for fannie mae and freddie mac. as americans face the financial uncertainty is long past time to make the hard position and address this unfinished business
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of the 2008 financial crisis. thank you for your considerable efforts here and i look forward to the continued work together this topic. thank you both again for joining usr here today. senator brown. >> senator brown, do you have your mute button on? >> i think we are going to try to contact him to fix the technical problems. senator brown.
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the [inaudible] i am told senator brown is speaking and is being broadcast but we cannot get the signal in this room so we are going to have him continue his remarks.
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i apologize to the witnesses you may not hear his introductory remarks before i go to your testimony.
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>> [inaudible]
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you want to abandon the legal standard of the supreme court, the legal standards used to bring the housing discrimination lawsuits. that isn't just my opinion, mr. chairman, let letter after letter of the agency opposing actions and those before us today are pushing plans that will make the home ownership more expensive, harder to get particularly for borrowers of color. this is what happens when the ideologues in his administration pushed wall street's agenda instead of regular people actually need. before this hit from the families were spending more of their income spending a wee houy were likely to experience, this
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was fueled in part by the federal government's failure to protect black and brown borrowers from predatory subprime lenders before the crisis despite knowing that they were targeting them. now black families are experiencing this economic crisis withth just one tenth thy are more likely to work at jobs where the corporate employers didn't pay them enough to begin with. we are close to repeating these mistakes. they prefer that they are unlikely to be able to make the next payment. almost half unlikely to be able make the next payment. they are in the middle of a crisis and you either don't kn know, you don't know where you don't care. you are moving ahead with civil rights protections while inouye went across the country that are
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opening up 20 million americans are unemployed, some have been able to pay the rent but only because the test emergency unemployment insurance earlier this year and it's set to expire at the end of july. president trump, leader mcconnell are refusing to extend it. of course we should be surprised if thiat this part of the leades decades long effort to undermine andan weaken the social insurane unemployment benefits all of us pay into. the democrats have plans to get more help directly to the working families and the with the utility bills so they can help the renters avoid any possible choices between rent and prescriptions were training savings were going to a payday lender. it's already passed the house and if it's in the majority leader's test. the desk collecting dust for many bills keep coming and the
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stress keeps mounting. before the pandemic president trump and his trophy cabinet members either didn't realize or didn't caret that behind the stock market data the economy was already broken for many and it never worked for many of them to begin with and now the trump administration either doesn't realize or doesn't care the bottom is falling out for many of these families. for those in hawaii and montana and minnesota and rhode island and idaho people are tired of the lack of action and accountability before the pandemic the trump administration's l were trying o leveld the playing field for wl street, but this kind of definition enough is enough. we want to hear that you understand both the magnitude of the current crisis and the inequities built into the
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housing system for generations. it's about time you do something to actually fix it instead of making it worse. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator brown. i'm going to wait while they adjust this a little bit. i think we are getting there. we will now move to the witnesses and secretary carson, why don't you begin first? >> thank you, mr. chairman and ranking member brown. i didn't hear most of what to say. members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the steps the u.s. department of housing and urban development is taking to maximize the nation's response to the national emergency. these actions reflect both my work with theh white house coronavirus task force and the measures developed to protect
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the health and safety of the american public. i want to begin by recognizing the unprecedented health care and economic challenges facing americans today. this disease is affecting those across the nation. as the secretary my highest priority has been to ensure americans don't lose their homes and to safeguard those at the greatestve risk including homels and low-income communities. i also want to thank the nation's medical professionals have first-line responders have sacrificed so much to keep americans safeea and healthy. as a medical doctor, i am inspired daily by their unwavering commitment to their fellow citizens. president trump signed into law the care act and in total it provided more than $12 billion
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in funding recognizing the unprecedented nature i directed my staff to immediately begin the process of getting the fun fund is impacted by. as of today, they've announced obligations for over $9 billion in funding. this includes 3 billion in funds, 4 billion in the psg fund is, 685 million for the public housing operating fund, $380 million for the rental assistance, $800 million in project-based rental assistance, $200 million in ie hp g. phones, $75 million for the section 811
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boucher program at $65 million for these funds. the fha acted quickly to help protect single-family homeowners who lost their jobs or were experiencing economic hardship as a result by implementing a 60 day moratorium, which was subsequently extended through june 30. the act also provided the 120 moratoriumon including properties with single-family or multifamily mortgages. they further announced a set of mortgage payment relief options for the single-family homeowners
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this includes the cares and forbearance that allows them to request up to six months of forbearance and extend up to six months. also included was an extension period for calling the loan due for those big home equity conversion mortgage. the fha alsoh. implemented the national emergency standalone partial claim the borrowers on forbearance. this will help eligible homeowners resumed their payments and avoid a long sum payment. they expanded the pass-through assistance program to help address potential issue or liquidity challenges and other
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mortgage programs. for th the issuers available fus and scheduled payment of the principal and interest to the mortgage-backed security holders. the timely payment to the mortgage-backed holders consistent with the guarantee is essential to the liquidity. if theth confidence of the investors to finance the housing and the programs. in december, 2018 president trump signed executive orders 13853 establishing the white house a opportunity and revitalization council. i've had the honor of chairing the count since its establishment. president trump directed at me and counsel to utilize its
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talented structure and build on its original intent with a renewed focus to expand efforts to protect the most vulnerable communities. they will be kept safe from this invisible enemy now and into the future. in the coming weeks, they will identify different policy approaches needed to help advance opportunity. thanks to the leadership of president trump, i am proud of the work of this administrationd especially the 7500 employees are doing to fight this invisible enemy and to meet the needs of the american people. i'm grateful to this committee for its bipartisan commitment to meeting this challenge. thank you. >> can you turn your microphone on.
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>> distinguished members of the committee thank you for the invitation to appear today. the there isn't a single civil rights protection that they have pulled back during my time. not one any assertions to the contrary is false. we have acted swiftly and we've prioritizedro those in the housg market from day number one. and for the partnership and leadership let me thank the employeess they are the greatest asset and their well-being has been the top priority. flexibilities have enabled them to remain safe and image at home obligation while fulfilling a
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vital mission. we've also continued to foster the environment where everyone feels safe, respected and valued for their differences. it reaffirms my fairness, diversity and inclusion are the core values to be personally and in thean agency. they are one of the most diverse workforce is among the agencies. during the crisis americans shouldn't have to worry about losing their homes. they worked closely with the regulated entities to support the borrowers and renters while ensuring the proper functioning of the mortgage market during the crisis. our actions have been and continue to be data-driven. it applies to those backed by fannie mae and freddie mac. the policies helped set up standards for thofstandards for. for those facing foreclosure we
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suspended all through at least june 30. bacon was repaid with a messed. in the enterprise forbearance about one third continue to make opayments. they directed the enterpris thec trait such as a courageous they want to buy a new home or refinance. at the direction the interface created online lookup tools that
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allow the renters and borrowers determine if they are eligible for eviction i protection or forbearance. they also have the options to the script servicers use when talking to borrowers about forbearance. we've emphasized those in the public that no lump sum is required at the end of the forbearance. we partnered with the cpb to launch the protection program and they helped to develop a website that consolidates the federal information about the mortgage release options and how to avoid scams. we've also taken action to support the proper functioning of the mortgage market to ensure the safety of the market participants, fhfa authorizes several verifications and a grizzled flexibilities at least through june 30. t instituted the servicers obligations to advance the principle interest payments on the loans and forbearance.
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prior to this the enterprises had never participated this. the policy provides a new opti option. i'm proud of what they've done to help those in the housing market deal with the crisis. at this point is referenced in my written testimony i am encouraged by what the data tells about the state of the market and the capacity and forbearance rates. the this undermines the role and jeopardizes the important mission to provide the interface to the stronger foundation on which the distress they have everthree proposed capital ruleo help teach enterprise to be safe
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and sound int sounded to fulfils mission across the economic cycle and to support a sustainable and affordable home ownership. however i should emphasize only congress can enact the reforms necessary to fix the structural housing finance system. to that end next week i will submit the annual report to congress that includes several legislative recommendations. reform is long overdue.rd strengthening the regulatory and supervisory authorities simply to be on par with what others have will ensure the enterprises will be well regulated in capitalized outside of conservatorship. i look forward to the opportunity to hear your questions. thank you for the opportunity tr be here this morning. >> thank you, director. i look forward to your resolutions on the system. my first question will be to both of you. as we both know, congress acted boldly on the act to make it
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through the economic crisis including through exton in the forbearance prohibiting those and forbearance across the broader portion of the market. now ten weeks later from the perspective, could you briefly tell me how what you guys the current state of the market and what are some of the policy trade-offs that we need to consider now as we move forward towards the next response? >> this is the reason that theyc acted so quickly in conjunction with this committeee and others because if a person is worried about the health of their family, the last thing they need to be worried about is whether they are going to lose their home and therefore quickly enacting forbearance for
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homeowners you mentioned the partial claim which is interest-free by the way the payments are tacked onto the end ofof the mortgage. there are a host of other forbearance measures that were taken. all of these have hadl a very important and positive impact so things have not deteriorated to the level most people thought that they would. we are still vigilant looking at the market. i think everybody was taken quite a backside last month's report when we expected the 22% decline in the market and didn't have quite a 6% increase. there are a lot of interesting things going on. it speakss to the impact of the interventions that have been done but also to the resilience
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of the american people, and their willingness to do what it over 90% have continued to be able to pay their rent. so, it is really quite impressive for the american people are able to do. we have to recognize that these underlining economic infrastructures are actually very strong. this coronavirus came along and we intentionally had to stop the economy but remember that underlining factors that created us areob still there and what we have attempted to do is bridge the gap so that we do not have to start over again and we can just resume the upward trend for everyone.
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>> they aree about 6.6%. we have seen over the last few weeks the numbers start to stabilize. i think we have seen a stabilization. as was mentioned in the remarks about a third of the borrowers continue to make the payment, which i think is a positive. clearly the biggest problems facing the economy going forward in fact the housing market, so with large i think the single most important thing we can don is figure out how to put people back to work.
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coming out of covid i have been very pleasantly surprised. we have seen home sales pop back up. people in quarantine spend their time looking on line because one again, the number of undecided to buy them when we came out of this, so i would emphasize i think that it is in a relatively strong point and where we really need to be focused on printer only in the labor market. >> thank you to both of you. my time is expired. senator brown. >> people working in jobs through the pandemic, retail
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workers, custodians, security people, home health aides, did you know people working in these jobs do not get paid enough to afford to rent a modest one-room apartment comple? >> i do, and that is one of the reasons we are concentrating on the people that are most severely affected byte the pandemic. and one of the reasons they were most severely infected. -- >> you ask that you talk about the economy on a rocket going up like a rocket when the pandemic hits. the fact is these are workers in the economy that have been working through the pandemic and they don't because corporations are not paying whether or not we have that housing pricess in ths country long before the current public health crisis upon which you blame the entire economic problems of the country and the agencies are making things worse whether it is through the budget cuts in affordable housing were
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to make the mortgage or expensive or harder to get or dismantling the fair housing protection. so, i want to turn to that. secretary carson, i've been writing to you and many members of the committee from minnesota and hawaii and nevada and montana, rhode island all of us have been writing to you about the decision to not enforce the law. it's been an egregious attempt to wonder what the premis why te fair housing act is an absolute regression in fair housing practices. ..
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>> to take legal president and the supreme court's decision at least 45 groups mr. secretary represents tens of millions of americans this is our country you are ignoring them with this comment partially true it is and then against the wishes of tens of millions of americans. >> i have for that anything that even smacks of the unfairness for peoplenges. but we also want things that actuallyly work. not things that have been there for decades and not resulted in anyro improvement. therefore we are doing things a little bit differently.
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looking at af h the real reason and segregation is not because there is a bunch of george wallace is standing in the doorway but because people can only afford to live in certain places. so therefore we are moving toward a model where we encourage development of affordable and decent housing not just in one area but a lot of different areas. >> and with a such administration wants to see higher wages so they can afford decent places to live opposition to the minimum wage , 100,000 people in my state lost thousands of dollars in overtime because this administration which you are so happily a part of comes down on the side of corporate interest.
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last week the city of columbus began processing evictions one advocate told me my client was trying to avoid eviction and then national crisis with 20 million people who have arenaseir jobs using you are the person how may people will lose their home or will become homeless in the weeks and months ahead cracks. >> we are heard on - - working hard that no one. >> already somehow become homeless the eviction courts continue to operate.
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but the point is to support $100,000,000,000.75 billion emergency foreclosure fund 20 million americans teunemployed. how may people will be homelessss or lose their homes?
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we don't have to do another package we would just let happen what's going to happen. >> thank you to both panelist there this morning on the eviction conversation it is an important conversation to engagentgena and perhaps senator brown's passion is well-placed there is a lot of fear evictions and people being able to pay their rent. they cares acting contains exclusive measures of those renting apartment buildings financed by federally backed mortgages we did this to make sure families do not end up on the streets during a pandemic but as we present to a recovery and better job numbers, as you think through the eviction conversation, can a moratorium actually make it harder for renters? are they not accruing on a bigger balance i have to pay in one day? will that not actually lead to more evictions and not less?s an
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i do appreciate his passion sincerely but the other side of the coin is we may be setting people up for long-term failure if we don't start looking at the picture from the end of the crisis back as opposed to the beginning forward. >> that is an astute observation. the fact of the matter is , when we extend the forbearance and people still owe money that is not helpful. what is helpful is to create an environment such as we were enjoying a few months ago where people had employment and opportunities to climb the ladder. we are very interested to
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create affordable housing in lots of different places. those are the kinds of things that empower people and we are interested in programs where people can save some money so they can make a down payment on a home that the principal mechanism of wealth accumulation this country we are not interested in continuing a bunch of old programs that kept people impoverished for generations t. >> you touch on the important point fundamentally what we want to do so people can pay their rent rather than simply try to avoid eviction. we move very quickly before they cares acting support moratorium on evictions for fannie and freddie loans we will extend that if necessary through june 30th but how do we grow jobs income or deal with lack of housing supply , all of these things are 30.dda
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critical. >> with the forbearance measures come as far as i can tell you have been very receptive and open and many conversations to we don't always agree the outcome but at least you are available for the conversations of thank you for that. with the fhahad looking at lenders and servicers for those forbearance measures for they cares p act but director you and i have spoken on this beforeca can you give me an update or the assessment of forbearance assistant given those loans owned by the gsc or secretary carson or the assessment through the fha? >> the current gsc numbers are six.percent the fannie freddie loans and forbearance one third continue to make their paymentym.
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we have seen that flatline over the last couple of weeks .o it has stabilizedd >> last week was the first time it went back in the other direction at 12.4 percent right now which is much smaller than anticipated and predicted by many we will continue to work extremely hard to push that down further. >> i have about 30 seconds left would you agree that a surprising job numbers in may that perhaps the worst is over and as weut get folks we engaged in their responsibilities is a good thing long-term for their savings and retirement fund because ultimately people who
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have limited incomes and savings the deferral has been helpful which is good news but i'm afraid of creating an issue one or two months is still a lot for people to absorb the past we get back to normal the better off we will be especially if the economy starts to percolate a little bit. >> you are right that's why it's so very important we utilize the information we have learned about covid-19 so we can live with it and not be dominated by it. >> thank you. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. i do understand the forbearance programs people are in temporarily from their
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mortgage requirements but at the end ofha that thousands of people could be thrown their bhomes or are they could be evicted is that the situation we look at? >> we certainly want to minimize that and we will emphasize fannie and freddie nobody is required to make a lump sum payment our default option is to add that to the end of the loan when the house is paid off are trying to make sure there is no payment shock or change the monthly payment for the borrower or the renter a to make sure people can get current. we are focused to minimize how many of these loans go into real delinquency or foreclosure we are focused on that.
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>> the reality is legally that landlord or mortgage holder if the next payment is made if you add on the forbearance to the end of the loan if you don't pay then you are out then that is the incentive i don't think they can avoid we have situations their individual mortgages have already been foreclosed but the situation is such you put your finger on it we have a real employment problem even if the forbearance is tacked on the end people still cannot pay it that would suggest to me we have to extend
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unemployment because many of the people that you have alluded to that are still paying only because they get enhanced unemployment also for the our resources so the renters can pay their rent or their mortgage and eviction takes the pressure off the landlords and the banks so they have funds wouldn't that make more sense than simply to just stop one day and hope everything is okay? >> i agree the point about this being a fundamentally a jobs income issue that's where we should focus but in terms of fannie and freddie and forbearance generally borrowers don't walk away from their home if there is positive equity we see less than 1 percent cross into a
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negative equity position. as long as we have a strong housing market we don't have a crystal ball that in the strength of the current market i don't think there will be a lot of borrowers walking away but that doesn't change a fundamental point that this is a fundamental jobs issue. >> we have a deal getting the incomes to gather with some help for their rent or mortgage otherwise i don't see anyone wanting to walk away from their house. but what i dooy see that they o and foreclose on a house that's the way they can operate to me and that's the option they will has when we
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stop with those benefits so this is something we have to take very seriously housing has been estimated that 30000 individuals and households will bese at risk windows unemployment benefits terminate. and we also know most households are minority households they don't have the resources or the financial support and as far as affordable housing goes we put money into affordable housing but it's a fraction of what we need they should talk about it more with more money in their
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budgets we have a crisis ahead of us we shouldn't say we won't tack on or demand forbearance and we are so pleased. thank you. >> thank you mr. chairman for your testimony. i have had some concern of the mortgage servicing assets and then to try to resolve those issues and more regional vein from where they got their loan and because of regulations and other factors and into
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independent servicers. that the concern for homeowners of the cares act as well-intentioned as that was could cause dislocation because of the forbearance mandates that they can shelter. and he said the industry as a hold iss well-capitalized and
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enjoy the impacts of the coronavirus lockdown can you talk more about the upper limits of that capacity that in your opinion to bring the mortgage service industry up to its limits? >> i will start with emphasizing that the 346 non-bank servicers we get quarterly financials through every one of them and for the larger of the non-bank servicers we get weekly or daily contact so our analysis is data driven we monitor them every morning i get a high-end watchlist of servicers and i'm happy to say that list is smaller todayncety than two mos ago or two weeks ago and i would go as far to say they are in a better financial position today than they were in march we have seen servicers we thought were close to the line we work with fannie and freddie to encourage those servicers many have raised substantial liquidity. our estimates you probably could that is our view on this and that issues that ginnie
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mae or private label may be different but certainly in the d fannie and freddie but you would have to see forbearance rates get over 3 percent before they would be stressed among the industry and this would be systemic why we put the four-month limitation in place so no servicers on the hook for 12 months. >> thank you for that answer. >> senator menendez. >> it has been over two months since the cares act became law providing $5 billion but to address the health and economic aspects of covid
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response that has only released about 3 billion of the funds congress appropriated and furthermore there was a major lack of clarity on the rules of the first dispersement that cause confusion in the way they sought answers to questions whether they could use the funds for covid testing for to support small businesses. wenders had planned to release those in the careses act? >> thank you very much for your question. as you probably know the time of the first set of friends was a record amount of time the reason that wisdom without a federal register notice is because it's not required in those situations where the money to be dispersed and used
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i hope you made that clear to everybody. having said that the federal register notice will be coming out in the near future. >> do you have a timeframe? the reason congress provided the money obviously is to deal with the challenges these municipalities have greater demands, less revenue as a result of the social distancing measures all different forms of revenue so this money for some essential programs is>> critical. >> of the 12.$4,000,000,000.9 12.$4,000,000,000.9.1 billion has only been allocated and utilized already by using the grant formulasgran
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already in existence. the last portion of that will be allocated by october 1st. >> that is way too late that is not what congress intended there is no way we should be waiting until october. >> all statutory requirements and timing will be met. >> let me switch to another topic on december 182018 i in a series of other senators sent a letter raising concerns how to implement the unofficial policy to deny fha loans to doctor recipients we asked had to clarify one --dash had to clarify that was new policy you said it has implemented any policy changes
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during the current administration formal or informal with respect to the eligibility requirements for daca recipients". for every 12 of 2019 administrator montgomery testified before the house appropriations committee saying the policy hasou been unchanged for many years. every 22, 2019 had officials met with my senior staff and other staff to brief them on the policy related to daca recipients and they affirm there has been no policy changes. mr. secretary you testified before the house committee on appropriations april 2019 you were unaware of any changes of policy related to daca recipients receiving fha loans and said i'm sure we have plenty of daca recipientsof from
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fha documents but those revealed on friday show that they were actively discussing and implementing a policy prohibiting the issuance of a fha loans to daca recipients as early as march 2018 if not sooner. mr. secretary so why did you and other officials conceal and misrepresent this policy change to members of congress o? >> i have concealed nothing at all. people do have conversations. i'm sure they will continue to have their conversations. am i privy to their conversations? know. does that change policies? absolutely not. >> but it has changed the policy because i have heard fromcywful lawfully present daca recipients and social security numbers that we would expect from any law-abiding citizen who have been denied.
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mortgage company say fha change the rules. so all your department's testimony today is out of the realm of what has been recorded as saying that is what it shows. so this department has changed the rules on daca recipients. >> i think it started as a result of a question that was provided and then it came to light may be some rules were being violated and people decided they better pay closer attention to the rulesespllo. >> that is not what has happened but we will follow up mr. chairman. >> thank you mr. chairman it's good to see you again fha have
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a guaranteed five.$7 trillion of mortgages suffice it to say to play a critical role getting us through the pandemic and with your testimony talking about fannie and freddie mortgages with forbearance many constituents we heard from several who are getting conflicting information and misunderstanding or confusion over the process of forbearance depending on who they are dealing with such a have the opportunity to speak to those who are looking at the forbearance can you explain how this is designedto to work and what the process looks like and what the lenders and servicers should be doing that they follow the law?
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>> first let me emphasize in response we drafted a script done son time ago soul regardless of who the lender is at its fannie and freddie loaned they should get the same script and same answers and options fannie and freddie do follow up to make sure that's the case. for borrowers listening there is no requirement at all for the missed payments to be made up. if you have missed two or three payments this is the case with fha nobody asks you to pay that back all at once. if you can that's great but if you are a bar were in forbearance and made your payments you are immediately able to refinance if you
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choose to have our waterfall of different options you the bar were as missed payments do not contact the lender when you resume payments we will automatically take those to put them on the end of the loan, interest free once you payments000 in s $250,000 mortgage it's now 253,000-dollar mortgage and that is simply paid back when you sell the home or refinance. we think this is fair to borrowers and lenders to keep the exact same payment so when you resume you can makeam the payment if you are back to work but don't make what you use to and cannot afford the previous payment and we will
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give you the modification option with a payment that is affordable but that will have to be something we have to reach out to your service or. so we want to emphasize if you were in forbearance and resumed payments we will attack it on the and automatically that will be reflected in your monthly statement but the monthly payment won't change. > m the fhs a announced anotr deferment plan my constituents are looking at the options. >> the forbearance is at the beginning where the payments are not forgiven just pressed on pause you call up your service or and you have to contact your service or. this is so crucial. you have to call or sign-up. lenders do allow you to do this online, some of them enrolled in the forbearance
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plan. it is not forgiven just tacked onto the end of the mortgage. at the time you resume whatever you have missed will be put back back. so it is critical to keep in mind is not forgiven better pause but you have to pay it and for many household you are probably better off continuing to pay it. but it is a timeout. . . . . a e
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period might end. >> it's important to make sure that they are in t contact with the owners to work something out. they also can have a reassessment of their income so their rent obligation can be lowered, but it does require proactivity on behalf of the renter. >> thanks. i'm out of time. >> senator tester. >> mr. chairman, thank you. ranking member brown, and i want to thank doctor carson for inherited a.
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going off of what senator menendez said and the fact we are now three and a half months after the act has been passed, the same thing could take greaterm. extent two and a half months after congress passed the act is two and a half% of the money that's been available basically two and a half months after. can you tell me why this is the case? >> first of all, the rest of the money is being announced today so all $4 billion of that will be allocated and announcements made as of today. >> why did it take so long? >> this is record time, senator. >> we are in a pandemic with a
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lot of other things going on and i don't think that the congress passed -- i don't thinks congres passed the care act in a record amount of time. they haven't been going out. >> the initial amount went out the first week of after the bill was signed and that was a billion dollars. we also made it clear people could utilize a the money they already have. >> it's good that you are getting it out now i just hope that it isn't too late. let me asksk others that have asked this as well. we have a situation where people have lost their jobs so we are
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telling them it's okay. we have people with property that microphones on that property in whatever mechanism they might have used. can anybody tell me what the plan is for the only keeping the printers in their home but what is the plan to fix you might be surprised you probably can't see this, but this is the payment tracker for 2019 versus 2020 you cane see that it hasn't changed very much, 97.7% last year
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people were paying 94.6% now so people have been paying significantly. we are still concerned about obviously, and that is why i mentioned if you don't see any prospect of being able to get a job, which i don't think is the case for many people, but if that is the case, you can have your income adjusted. >> i got it and i appreciate that, but what about the folks that are on those that may not have gotten incomeha because of the rent a ar boat are you doing
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about it if you are allergic? >> we have heard of landlords moving forward. we haven't seen evidence on whether those are fannie or freddie or back or not. i will note we don't have enforcement authority over landlords. when we hear complaints we get into the cfp.
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we do not have the statutory enforcement authority in this area.. if we believe in landlords it is getting forbearance and violating the forms, we can stop the forbearance but we certainly have no ability to bring the enforcement action people against landlords. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator moran. >> mr. chairman, thank you. mr. secretary, thank you for joining us. i want to draw my attention to you first i'd like to talk about single-family versus multi-family. under the s. h. s. a in my view there is a confusing disparity between how it is applied to single-family versus how it is
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applied toi multi-family. in determining as i understand it, the single-family s fhfa relied on the crisis of 2008 for the factual basis to make that determination. however, on a multi-side, there was an indication by the fhfa say that that wasn't the appropriate way to look at it for the multi-family. but in terms of losses in 2008 and 2009. for 1.3% while single-family losses were 3.6%. based upon that comparison, it prrprises me and every proposal is the risk with regards to the multi-family. when it seemsn to me the evidee shows exactly thee opposite.
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why then relative to the single-family are they penalizing the multi-families against the data? you have indicated they may be over financing family housing. it is based upon the facts, not based upon the desire to reduce the financing. all of this should be driven by the facts and the data. there is a pre-existing activity l count and those are indeed two different things.
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it's nothing less of multi-family again those are two different things but in fact the current rate proposal is a 2018 rule that was crafted by my predecessor in the multi-family part of the rule almost as exactly the same as it was in the 2018 rule very modest changes were made, but i also adwant to clarify a couple of issues that are critical here. while every proposal attempts to use more banks like language so that analysts and commentators who understand the process can read our proposed rule and have more than apples to apples approach, i do want to emphasize unlike in the banking world they are somewhat fixed so for instance we are all aware we are the 50% risk wait a half on the single-family mortgages.
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that 50% is the same for everything that fits in the pocket. whereas thehe average risk waitn both single-family and bowtie family in the proposed rule are driven by the composition of the loansy. so youee have seen today it is different than it was in 2008 and they perform functionally pretty well. let me also emphasize that the cap we sit still asks where they've been in the marketplace was his essentially the highest market share that they've had in decades, so we haven't pulled back fannie and freddie from the market. we try to make sure if it performs differently, and also we are seeing in this environment for instance fannie and freddie do have aan significant amount of the senior housing and student housing in the multifamily sector that are both under stress that we are
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keeping in mind on. i am not overly concerned again it is a possibility of this being a different crisis this time around than the last crisis. but i also want to emphasize it is a proposed rule we are taking andd we certainly expect and welcome the commentary. we will obviously go through those comments and they will be thoughtful about it and throw in a data-driven and we will be transparent about it. >> thank you. would you commit that they will provide the data? >> absolutely. >> we will also follow up about other alternatives about the funding for the multi-family into what you see as available. my time is expired and i think you. s >> thank you, senator. >> thank you mr. chairman and ranking member. half of all renters live in
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apartments owned by individual landlords and provides for protection for the properties that take advantage of the mortgage forbearance. the same protections are not extended to renters in the one to four units receiving the forbearance. or are you considering extending the protections prior to announcing the forbearance program? >> senator, i would remind you that section 4022 which handles the single-family which is where the rental is they are mandated essentially in the honor system where we have to provide the forbearance. we do have these requirements for there to be an exchange where there will be no eviction. our conclusion is that for us to
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place legal mandates on the tenets and single-family t ouoperties would have to amend this section. >> a couple of other things about where the discretion lies between the congress and you refer to the foreclosure moratorium expires at the end of this month. what is your timeframe for deciding that and consideration in terms of an extension? >> dwe will be making that announcement within w a week because we can always extend it as we move along i certainly think at a minimum just because
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we can always extend it again as we start to see how the economy willin be involved. my preference is to give people enough certainty without necessarily walking a thin. >> is that in the congress is handling to use expression >> if there was to be an extension for those it is the foreclosure there were a number about 230,000 ongoing for
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closures and it's important to remember that because those as well because we want to be able to facilitate the social distancing and we are looking at continuing and that is a separate outside. >> a lot of good conversation has happened. to provide to the committee a sort of shattered a production d recommendation for our consideration as we look at the next round of legislation to understand what is going to happen next in the event that we do nothing at all. the administration's authority to provide flexibility to those individuals that also probably
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more importantly, what we are going to need to do as the congress to make sure. there are a lot of technical aspects but basically what we are looking at is people have their bills piling up and up and that means they are experiencing some relief right now, but as i heard secretary carson and you talk about the best solutions for this job growth, that may be true enough, but we know even in the most optimistic scenario that job growth isn't going to come fast enough to help people with their rent and mortgage even as is a statistical matte. individuals need help them find employment with the 40 million are unemployed and those drops are not coming back very quickly so it's a little bit of a
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rhetorical sleight of hand to say we've got to wait for the job market. it's going to be years before we fully recover. one final question are you comfortable with an october deadline pushing out this money? >> that is the deadline. >> bithat isn't what i'm asking you. i'm asking you understanding how urgent the situation, understanding we are at depression levels and we are in a global pandemic, that seems rather casual meeting the statutory mandate when you know the people across the country kne suffering. so, my question is there any way you can see fit to go back to your agency index of a process
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of pushing out these funds? we are not saying you are violating the law. they arere saying people need te money now and would you consider pushing out a littl it out a lie quickly. >> if you could be briefed pleased we are overtime. >> it is june 25. it is out today. the ninth. so, it doesn't mean when the deadline as we are going to wait that long, we forget about us * we possibly can. >> senator van hollen. >> thank you mr. chairman and the witnesses today. you have asked a lot of questions about the impact of the job loss and therefore the loss of the difficulty so many people have been paying rent. even the most optimistic scenario would show up millions of americans will remain unemployed through no fault of
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their own before june 30% after july 31 enhanced and the benefits will expire three quick questionquickquestion to both ou agree that this makes sense to the extent we will continue to have millions unemployed to extend to help people pay their rent as this emergency continues? >> it's going to be important to monitor the situation to see how much recovery is going on and we are not going to sit idly by and watch millions of americans suffer for some and a centerfold. >> so, just to clarify, at the end of july it is clear that we will continue to have millions of people unemployed through no fault of their own and you would continue this at some point?
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>> if it is necessary. >> do you have an opinion on the? >> i will remind you we are an independent agency not a part of the administration or the negotiations will lead for the next package looks like in the administration. >> i understand that. url for somebody that is well versed on these issues and have an understanding of the impact of people not able to pay their rent. >> i certainly share the need of the broader income and theob jaa dynamic. you've raised the issue of those receiving more than wages. i guess at the risk of the old cliché about the two-handed economist, there are trade-offs here and i think fundamentally
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it is to be off the trade-offs. >> if both provides the benefit of employers and businesses being able t to share reduced hours and wages with the system. mr. secretary, in response to the earlier question, you mentioned the process of income recertification. have they put out additional pinformation recently to better inform the tenets of the fact that they have to do that, but the option is available to them? >> yes, we have.
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have you thought of expediting the process? in other words, we know that a irlot of people are losing their income because they're losing their jobs. is there a way to expedite the certification process so people can get the benefit of earlier rather than later? >> we have the assistant secretary who has been in constant communication with various others to inform them of what the process is and how to access the process quickly. >> mr. secretary, not right now, but if you could get us the hoformation on how many people have requested recertification's cesince the emergency kit, could you give us that information? >> i would be happy to. >> director, you've recently released your proposed capital rule for the gse's.
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they estimated that the change will raise interest rates on low income and could raise mortgage payments by 200,000 by $58 per month. isn't it the fact that this proposal will increase interest rates i would disagree with the analysis and is that he's on the part of a mortgage insurer that has strong economic interest in not seeing up to the rule. i certainlrole. i certainly would not put him forward as an unbiased expert in this. i would also note that we had a decade since the financial crisis of arguments by wall street somehow raising capitalal will destroy lending in the country. that has not been the case. i would note that today many commercial banks in the market are able toar make mortgages and
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hold twice t the capital that is required and to doso so at costs that are equal to or less than what freddie and fannie are charging. i think it is critical that we have the financial stability and we know when the moment of stress and institutions like danny and freddie are undercapitalized with low and moderate income. households. >> i know my time is up, mr. chairman. if you could provide your estimate of the impact that this proposal will have on interest rates and mortgage payments for lower income households, can you give us some detailed information on? >> we will look at that and see what they can provide. >> it seems to me that in making these kind of decisions it would be essential to have that information, as i hope that you can put it together and i look forward to getting it. thank you mr. chairman. >> senator cortez musto?
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>> mr. chairman, ranking member brown, secretary carson. thank you for being on the phone last week asho well. i'm looking online at the urban institute is an article that says new data suggests that it's dividing by race and income and the first paragraph of the article says that the racial and economic disparities with the affordable housing existed long before the pandemic. the pandemic in th and the econc fallout only widening the divide. would you both agree with that? >> absolutely, yes. >> let me start with you, secretary carson.
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from what i've listened to than the testimonthetestimony and alr written statement, you know what the initial funds congress has provided to help provide people assistance but i do not hear or see any answers to how they would respond to thelo increasig numbers of african-americans, latinos and people that rapidly see the increasing costs to what we are doing to address that. so my first question to you is how they calculated the assistance formulas into the researchers prioritized the proportions back to >> your voice keeps going in and also i am not getting the full picture. but i think that you're asking are we doing statistical
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analysis. is that somehow being utilized in the policies that we created and would that be inaccurate -- >> thank you. of course we always look at the demographics and we do recognize that there is a significant disparity based on the environment in which we live. the crisis has made it very clear hypertension and diabetes and asthma have a tremendous negative impact in terms of morbidity and mortality. >> i appreciate that, and believe me, especially coming from your background. that's what they ask you this, as the secretary of housing and urban development right now coming out you look at the date on which you do not disagree with, what are you doing right
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now particularly in this pandemic you address the issue within these communities and in this conversation that we have today that i is my first questio you. >> we are utilizing the white house counsel on the opportunity and revitalization which is a multiagency counsel to address the underlining cost for those disparities. that means housing specifically. it means education, communication, transportation. >> i appreciate that and what the white house is trying to do, but my question to you what are you doing as secretary to address this?
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>> we recognize that this is going to be in all of government approach to solve these kind of problems. these are not just a hhs problem, it is a combination of utilizing all of these together recognizing what the underlying causes of the problems are. >> ..
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>> him i would like to ask
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secretary carson with radon testing. him there have been numerous reports him that is a serious hazard for lung cancer him and the president's budget includes $5 million for the healthy homes program and to recognize what the problem is but one of the problems we see him and that is not being inhabited.alad the housing authority is an alabama and to say they do not have the money at this time to fix the house to fix those units. him and with those federal housing authorities to be penalize it's hard to adjust those policies so we don't penalize them while they are waiting for sufficient funds. him. >> we are in thank you for mentioning the $5 million which is the first time the money has been dedicated.
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and those can be used for radon and it's good for the inspection protocol as well. and including radon as well. and during that inspection process. >> as the public housing authorities are waiting to abate the radon they are sitting empty are you adjusting your policy so they do not get penalized to have vacant buildings or apartments? pa if they are not following the protocols that are mandated then yes they will be penalizeds we cannot allow people to simply ignore those
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regulations. >> that wasn't my question it takes time between getting the money and the funds to abate the radon and for those that are doing everything they can to comply with the law are you trying to get adjustments and they simply don't have that even though they literally do not have the funds to comply? think if they make it clear they have recognize the problem to addressing it and are just waiting for the of course we so
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will provide the appropriate waiver. >> staying with you secretary carson i appreciate a lot of what is being implemented with a cares act and the disparate impact it has had on minority populations but i would be remiss if i have them pointed out prior to the crisis your department has also issued
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a number of rules that i think completely turned on its head the role to try to prevent discrimination for instance talking about this with the disparate impact proposal will make it almost impossible to provide in sue on race-based issues that make status rule which is also creating problematic areas for discrimination the fair housing initiatives program of the 2021 budget is less than what it should be and i am really concerned about the proposed rule in 2018 the trump administration to rescind the obama administration rule regarding recipients of those localities of a comprehensive analysis
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your proposed rule now eliminates tools involving race and instead focuses on the regulatory barriers as we move out of this crisis can you commit to make sure the housing is back looking at this discrimination involving ie country your apartment will take another look that is a fair and equitableriri drean
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. >> will deftly commit to do everything we can to prevent discrimination and warehousing no question about that. >> thank you senator. >>. >> they give you the opportunity my really do appreciate the rules to engage with me and i want to come back to the gst's we have seen the importance of the government's role with the mortgage market and congress has not been very effective at all with the reform efforts and with the administration's plan so to answer how we get those out of conservatorship and address i you think the current economic challenges impact the relief obviously i would think some of the interest and would speak to that if we have that real plan and the gsc pays for that backstop. >> a number of questions and there. it is always a pleasure to talk to you and i hope you always feel that when we disagree is in a transparent manner and fair and open manner.
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is an independent regulator i cannot speak to the administration's plan but i want to talk about conservatorship but i believe this is not a choice on my part but a statutory mandatete and to get fannie and freddie into a safe and sound condition. and where we are in the covid crisis and the housing market i think this will likely delay in exit by three or four months i would underlined the tremendous amount of unknowns. and then if we have a number of forbearance loans go into default and perhaps that foreclosure we'll have to take them out and with freddie and fannie so we still see how
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this evolves we see it's too soon and with a wide margin of error. >> and obviously the market is changing and in the interest of the private investors it appears without any compensation that would be helpful in issuing guidance to clear up i hope you would not.
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>> i would emphasize what happens is fundamentally the responsibility of treasury to make sure the government gets recouped fairly this is the treasury department's decision that the government will not walk away without compensation i know the senator has raised and to have that data driven on how to disproportionately affected communities of color and that
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will be important i would like to continue this discussion i am concerned that if we i know not all the research metrics but it would be a challenge to the 2008 crisis and we will conversations. said thank you to both of you to talk about this. i want to talk about the economic and equity crisis sleep one - - sweeping to the country mr. george floyd aid
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was in my hometown it was a tragedy we cannot look away from this injustice. it reveals a systemic racism and inequity that existed policing in our society and it is intolerable. and with anguish in fear and frustration to know that the police will not attack us and kill less we just want to be treated equally we went to seek justice for mr. floyd and his family but people are marching in the street.
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and they are demanding we dramatically transform the policing system in this country. and then to speak out and change the disparities in discrimination and in the housing system. >> and this pandemic is increasing. so in minneapolis him and home so the typicak family earns less than half, 44 percent referee 25 percent of black families in minneapolis owned their own
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home which is the lowest rate in the country and that is the way most americans build wealth and economic stability. why has this happened? we know historic racism is at the root and the 20th century it minneapolis racist redlining strategy barring from buying and selling neighborhoods and then we build big frame freeways that destroyedimn communities one of eight families lost their homes through the i 94 freeway through the twin cities. talking about in minnesota so secretary carson we need to work to fulfill the promise of the fair housing act of 1960 as a young senator from minnesota walter mondale helps you write that legislation. it has not yet been filled we have rules with her housing
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rules that would do just that but hide under your leadership is undermined this effort to oversee fair housing. so secretary carson i believe in this moment we have a moral responsibility to change the system and how they perpetuate these inequities that i just described that we all know are there to continue to move forward in a way where we can do something about this. so i ask you secretary carson, please consider the voices of my constituentsca n md civil rights leaders and advocates to see the moment to make the change we need to make with her housing. you can use the power of your agency to do this. i want to ask you something specific related specifically to homelessness on tribal land. covid-19 pandemic has exposed huge racial and economic disparities eeta in with a
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devastating impact on tribal land according to the national alliance of homelessness people are uniquely vulnerable to covid-19 because of food insecurity and shelter conditions all the dangers and not enough hiding stations and knowing these risk factors are they are it makes no sense to me that they are not eligible to apply for the hud assistance grant senator murkowski and i have a bill to fix this so my question to you is what do you think they can access the homeless assistance grant to help the overcrowding. >> there is been a number of programs you are familiar with the housing block grant cprogram that provides the same
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types of relief that you talk about but do i believe they should be entitled to significant health because of disparities? the answer is yes. >> we will push forward this alegislation i will follow up separately specifically related to sprinkler systems and in the public housing project. thank you
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. >> is a senator on video and audio? senator? thank you to the witnesses for
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being here today economist reported this week the recession officially began in february and our ongoing public health crisis and the economy has significant headaches and hardships across the state arizonans worry about their health and safety an increasing number are concerned the senate must act to provide meaningful relief to families of small businesses to stabilize the economy by the spread of coronavirus and help state and local governments provide essential services during these challenging times thank you for being with us today when we stay eviction or foreclosure families face seeing homelessness only to find shelter and food unprecedented wait list for shelter services across my state arizona faces difficult circ fault i mperson their hom circ fault i mperson their hom to ta notices. the state of arizona a a dedicad $5 million that there are tons of red tape to have people in the department of housing that can provide technical assistance and share best practices as we address these challenges? >> we do we would be happy to provide them and also we could use your help to deregulate the barriers preventing the building of affordable housing in arizona and other parts of the country. this is creating a lot of the problem of skyrocketing prices while incomes are not going up. ryry toll say i'm surprisedureda
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hear that i am a strong proponent of regulatory reform arizona is a state that has the most black - - relaxed regulations of any state in the country. >> we appreciate that. >> i want to talk about my own experience as you may knowrya i was homeless as a child my family lived with housing and security over 30 years one - - for three years without electricity so i want to housing authority to give assistance to those who are on the verge of losing their home like my family did because of tough times right now unprecedented numbers of families in arizona are facing these tough times through no de through air own global pandemic that is not man-made we get they are on the verge of homelessness without seeing any kind of help in sight so before my time expires we see increased
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rates of seniors experiencing homelessness in arizona the rate has nearly doubled i don't think the federal government has a good solution because most of the current efforts focus on getting people back to work your budget proposes a small increase but clearly needs more affordable housing options for seniors given we are in the global pandemicobal i what can we do to address this issue to keep seniors in their homes? >> we have to recognize an ever-growing instance of seniors we need to start concentrating on the type of housing that's most appropriate where they may have shared living space but perhaps private facilities for bathrooms and sleeping. that also gives the opportunity to intermingle with others and if you know about mental healthnt
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that is essential as you grow older. we need to think about those things that are changing in our society. >> as a licensed clinical social worker i have a lot of experience with mental health my concern is we are not taking action to provide the support for physical security or mental health of those facing homelessness they give mr. chairman i yield back. >> that concludes. >> senator menendez has asked for a few minutes for an additional question and senator brown has asked to make a concluding statement so we will conclude the hearing with that. >> thank you for the courtesy. secretary carson i went to go back to the daca issue since you mentioned taking a closer look at the rules. don't daca recipients have social security numbers? isn't that correct. >> i believe they do. >> and they have work permits? >> of them so hard could have made the determination to interpret lawful residency as it has in the past because daca recipientss presponsid. did recd
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were eligible for fha to include daca had made a choice to exclude daca recipients by defining lawful residency in a different way to exclude that much is made clear in the foia documents so hired did change the rules because before a daca recipient was not only we see on - - besieged but now they cannot. so you changed the rules and did not reveal this publicly and misrepresented the change took a place one - - a placean
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we sent a letter to the inspector general requesting the open and investigation how this decision was made and how congress was misled for so long so will you commit to fully cooperating with that investigation? >> not only will we cooperate i would be delighted to work with you to look at that rule. >> i will accept that offer and look to return to what your department used to do. somebody changed it underneath you at a lower rank and that is not your view than i would embrace you to change it back where it was that daca recipients lawfully present under dhs did receive mortgages and have been responsible borrowers. we appreciate with the inspector general. >> we will conclude with senator brown with a brief concluding statement. >> thank you for your courtesy always i want to disclose a always i want to disclose a couple points i appreciate comments were directed to the secretary i apologize if you thought it was directed to you with the proposals will disproportionately hurt black and brown communities also we appreciate your emphasis as americans have lost their homes so far despite the worst unemployment numbers of our lifetime doctor carson renters are telling us they are in trouble particularly black and brown rentersng
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taking on what they cannot afford and relying on the expanded unemployment insurance that we passed dad is to expire in a little more than a month my colleagues refused to extend that the only amendment mcconnell allowed on the floor to the cares act was to eliminate expanded unemployment we need to act now to put money in workers' pockets for rental assistance. over the weekend you said the remarks over the next week i hope you're right it will be hard when he spent his entire career come i know you know
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this but cannot acknowledge it publicly i assume you do privately but this president has spent his entire career dividing people from the central park 52 colleen mexicans rapist immigrant children ripped from their parents un against him you know that. we know why he does and so do you to distract from the administrati record "we must eliminate the problems which they stem." that came from the governor of your state when yo betraying workers treating black and brown americans as expendable it comes down to leadership so contrast the president with the words of another leader responding to calls for justice in the street to said we should not use violence to silence protesters "we should eliminate the problems from which they stem that came from the governor of your state when you were growing up 1
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a republican governor george romney detroit 1967 and responded by listening and taking action work to pass a fair housing on michigan to implement the fair housing act for the job you have now as hud secretary president nixon fired him and the american people are waiting on my republican colleagues to show that same courage today calling for dialogue be refused to listen to all the people who have stood up against your civil rights rollbacks and your budget cuts and housing finance reform making it harder for people of color to buy a home you call for dialogue but today you said you could not hear but that's okay whether or not you prefer not to hear me i hope you listen to the demands for justice for people all over this country. thinking mr. chairman that concludes the questioning and comments for today's hearing for senators who wish to june 1. we ask witnesses to respond as quickly as you can.6. tuh ndova
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i appreciate the work you are doing and you being here to testify at this oversight hearing. we are adjourned. >> thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] him him him him him


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