healthcare costs and all americans etc. [inaudible]. congress should consider empowering the postal service and control the cost of the game be better aligned with revenues. with that i will conclude my remarks. i am happy to respond immediately questions printed. >> thank you, i understand we are having connection problems. we are going to take a very brief break for five minutes to see if we can get them corrected it. his mother witnesses are breaking up and that delivery is breaking up. so it will be very brief, five minutes of recess to try to correct this. [inaudible]. >> thank you in the chair

recognizes the next person for five minutes. i would like to ask about one of the critical positions and attract belt predict integration of retirees in the medicare credit and are given our witnesses, postmaster general, why don't we start with you. now postal employees pay into the medicare programs. is that correct. dejoy: yes ma'am. >> my understanding is they have already paid in about $35 billion since 1983. is that correct pretty. dejoy: that is correct printed. >> no hasten our information about 73 percent of retirees are enrolled but the other 27 percent are not. that correct pretty. dejoy: yes that is correct printed the provisioner got bill would require court employees to enroll in medicare when they reached 65 and retirees who are already over 65, would be able to give it a three to enroll with no. penalty.

postmaster louis dejoy do you support this. dejoy: yes we support that medicare as you described it. >> thank you not only will the administration reduce the co-pays and of the medical costs, the retirees but the congressional budget office reports that it will save the postal service nearly $10 billion over ten years. is that correct mr. louis dejoy. dejoy: i believe it's more than that. the medicare integration projects that we have released $30 billion over ten years. moloney we need to get them price numbers. as we will work with you on that. thank you predict we go down the list of witnesses. mr. bloom you are the chair of the puzzle board of governors do you support medicare integration. >> yes we do.

>> ap wq, also supports medicare integration is that correct pretty. >> manager, we certainly do as part of a comprehensive package. so yes, we do. it's good for the postal workers and good for the future but it has to be drafted carefully. one happy to work with you and the committee on that predict yes we are in support as a part of the comprehensive postal reform printed. moloney thank you per unit is industry stakeholder do you support the integration pretty. >> we absolutely do. it's common sense and it should be done. moloney and inspector general, i know you don't typically pate take positions on policy proposals but would you agree that this would significantly help the postal service as financial picture long-term. >> yes, of course the fact that this would be very beneficial to

the postal service's financial situation. speech of doctor, would you agree the medicare integration would help the postal service's financial picture printed. >> i get the impression it will. one thing i could use more clarity is whether the course of doing it creates any sort of negative spillovers upon its the medicare itself or on to their employees health benefit programs. >> this is important because the government reports that without reforms of medicare integration of the postal service retirees health benefit find it could become insolvent by 2030. and appears that we have widespread support in this provision. the postal service in the workers in the industry and the stakeholders printed language to go forward with this provision. and it introduces bill marking that her business meeting.

and i hope significant bipartisan support for it. and now yield to the distinguished young lady from kentucky. recognized. >> thank you. postmaster louis dejoy, you have seen the provisions in the draft bill and pre- funding. if we passed just that part, does that put the postal service back in good financial state of the long-term. suet know it does not serve. look at the elimination the pre- funding benefits about tolling somewhere between 40 and 60 billion were projecting 160 billion-dollar loss of the same. in the next ten years. it's part of our solution. it is necessary and with

experienced unfair treatment in this. but it does not solve the problem. >> to all the provisions do anything to address your changing business environment mainly the decrease in the mail and and packages. dejoy: no. these are self-help plans that we have moving forward it that will help address that. our strategy when released will combine with this legislation to bring us to nearly breakeven plan of the next ten years. it. >> see you believe that your plan will be enough to provide the structural reform necessary to fix the postal service. dejoy: i think after this legislation that the chair proposals, there is no path to totally eliminate it or loss but in combination with this and

other actions and other good strategies for the american people at the postal service, we see a path forward it to sustainability. and good service. >> but nevertheless i'm that you tried to submit several reforms printed. dejoy: i think the word reforms is exaggerated. and when i am accredited with doing is also not accurate but simple things that i did engage in was setting, we had an organization with the coo and area vice presidents and an ig report said art trucks were not running on time and you are running extra trips. and substantially costly and deteriorating service and i asked them to put a plan together to do what i felt was a

pretty simple task and most other places that after about three weeks came back with a plan that guy didn't to run transportation on time and it really had a negative impact on service for about two or three weeks we began to recover. it should have been something that we were able to resolve within a couple of days. but it took us longer. it did in fact recover prior to or within about a month, we had gotten back. in all of the other things with the collection boxes and reducing overtime, that never happened. from my standpoint. those were internal, may have been to a meeting with a great fans of the but i was there for three weeks. is the operation they did it. in fact over time, since i've

been there has been through the roof, much more than it has ever been. in the postal service. >> i appreciate that reform efforts and look forward to looking more into your form. dejoy: the plan has been eight months of work with an extensive part of the management team dedicated long-term" also in place with very sensitive great sensitivity to their service, the postal service to the american people. and this is a balanced plan when it comes forward it. together with the chairs legislation we should be able to have a sustainable postal service. >> we look forward to that in the next question is for chairman bloom. dizzy do you support postmaster louis dejoy's plan predict. >> bullet has not been finalized but the board of governors has been involved with the postmaster general and the plan is been developed.

yes. >> i will conclude with that. it is important to note that chairman bloom is working closely with postmaster louis dejoy and bloom is a democrat former obama administration person i think that is what is going to take to reform the postal service. real reform, tough decisions as would have to be done in a bipartisan way they look forward to working with you to see that happens. so i yelled back my time. >> thank you. district of columbia recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. and i really appreciate the searing because the been talking about this and date ever since i have been in congress. i'm glad were doing something about it. only this agency requires full pre- funding.

of healthcare for future retirees. only the postal service. this pre- funding has to be in advance for 75 years. that is a lot of money. of particular for an agency which is succumbing to technology. employees even any years away from retirement are required to pre- fund. the idea was impossible to ensure the availability of future health benefits for retirees freighted postmaster louis dejoy how much money is

currently saved in the retirees health benefits fund. dejoy: i think the original combination of the postal contributions and some are around 40 - $45 million. >> if all of the federal agencies were required to prepay healthcare coverage, let me ask you, do you know of any other agencies required to pre- fund in this fight. was the postal service alone. dejoy: i am not an expert on any other agency rated but from the standpoint of comparisons that i received, no i don't think so. >> the mask about sector firms. are they required to refund the cost retirees health coverage

healthcare coverage. >> i know anybody does predict and i think we have to measure my business would have to be here today. >> i understand that and finally federal government could not keep refining so in 2006, the postal service or since that time has simply refused to refund $35 billion i think outstanding and think it's fair to say there is no expectations in this money will be repaid. in fact the congressional budget office in an authoritative reference does not even holding the longer, the elimination of the prevented mandates because it is our belief that these unpaid fondest will ever be repaid.

chairman bloom, does the board support eliminating this mandate. >> we do. >> president - your statement supporting the chairman's to eliminate preventing mandates, that was included in this draft. have you stated, this legislation is a necessary step to solving this refining mandate that is dragging down the postal service. do you stand by that statement. here today pretty. >> absolutely. it is unfair. it's unprecedented and it's really for needed investments and monies over the years printed so absolutely standby repeal for the pre- funding mandate. >> finally, how would eliminating the refining mandate help your members.

>> the eliminating of the preplanning mandate would take a lot of financial pressure off of the postal service and anytime there's undue and unnecessary financial pressure, we cannot carry other missions effectively is postal workers believe in and are dedicated to. and so it was certainly enabled the workers to provide better benefits and it was certainly enable the workers going forward to be more secure in their jobs and to be more secure in their mission. i don't know any postal worker that does not think that is the right thing to do away with this pre- funding mandate afraid it would make our jobs easier and from the service to the people in this country and that is what we are about. >> i think the pre- funding should be eliminated and i certainly hope we do so this congress. thank you and i yelled back.

>> thank you madame. chairwoman. let me begin with you. and i don't want to do take offense of this first question is just a matter of fact as a ranking printed up. but which political party do you affiliate with. >> i'm a registered democrat. >> okay. so from that perspective let me ask you, last year did you believe that the postmaster to louis dejoy was trying to sway the election get your parties nominee. [inaudible]. >> do you believe or did you believe that he was somehow removing the blue boxes for the purpose of preventing people from mail-in ballots. >> no.

>> do you believe he is trying to remove the mail sorting machines for the purpose of slowing down the mail for the election. >> kelp. >> okay and thank you. we go to the inspector general, let me ask you on a similar line of thought. did your office find any sign whatsoever in the evidence of a plan by postmaster louis dejoy to hinder vote by mail. >> no we did not. >> did the postal service perform or to me ask you this. did you look into how well he performed when it came to delivering election mail. >> yes. we wrapped up the order, our report is not been yet released. but we found that the postal

service prioritized ballots effectively during the election. >> let me go to the postmaster louis dejoy himself. how is the performance in delivering election mail. dejoy: very proud of the performances, 640,000 men and women of the postal service and we did the usual thing we do every election. the performance extraordinary measures, we delivered 99.7 percent. we have a report on a website, 99.7 percent of ballots within two days. some very extremely high numbers. i have it written down some place here. everything was in the 99th percent. in the balance to elections from the voters to the election boards, were 1.7 days freighted that was the average time,

11,305,000,000 ballots. >> i know the specific to election mail. we have issues with first-class other types of mail. but you can improve a great deal of those kind of statistics when it comes to election mail. salome come back to you again chairman paloma. where the attacks last year against postmaster general louis dejoy warranted. >> i would say they weren't and i will say my humble opinion that the political of the postal service was a bipartisan affair. but on your question, i think those particular attacks were not fair. >> will thank you for your honest answers pretty quite frankly, it's with that spirit that i believe the potentials of bipartisan solutions is within reach and we've to get away from the attacks in the allegations

that are unfounded. and i am pleased to hear that you as admitted democrat understand the allegations against mr. louis dejoy were unwarranted and i appreciate that. so it is my hope that we will be able to proceed and getting some solutions as we move forward. in the allegations from any in this committee that he was attempting to alter elections of those were true allegations, he miserably failed because there is a record-setting 1,305,000,000 mail-in ballots with almost perfect delivery with those. so i'm hopeful that with this information cleared, we will be able to move forward in a bipartisan manner.

and i think that a chair and i yelled back. >> thank you three bipartisan comments and out to the gentleman from massachusetts. piston lunch is recognized for five minutes. let me follow-up on the questions and freighted to the two previous witnesses. would you say with the near, let me quote, the gentleman from georgia. the almost perfect delivery of ballots in the previous election given that fact, would you say that it was unconscionable that someone would dispute and undo the result of that almost perfect delivery of ballots. in the previous election. to either of the two previous witnesses. let me just recap the fact some of gentleman from georgia voted

to undo the elections in two separate states. and so is just spent about five minutes reminding us in his own words that the delivery of ballots was almost perfect by the united states postal service in an election that he voted to undo. ... ... you have agreed that the

onerous burden on the post office to pre- fund their benefits by 75 years in advance should be corrected and eliminated and also that you support the integration of medicare, which depending on who's estimates, you or chairs will maloney's, i'm glad we are in agreement on that. let me ask you there was a story in the "washington post" that and i need to be careful about this, but it talked about you are yet to be released strategic plan and the change in the delivery frequency in that it may be reduced from the existing one to two days or 1.7 days i

think you quoted to three to five days. is that something that you are anticipating or that might be part of your strategic plan? >> we are not finalized. we are getting close to finalized and we've taken eight months to do a diagnostic on just about every aspect of our operation to identify what the significant errors in the performance are and we put together a comprehensive balance solution that moves forward in service, service standards, which haven't been met for the last eight or nine years and which as the oig stated the significant lack of progress to do herculean efforts to meet off some of the considerations we

have. -- >> let me reclaim my time. i appreciate your answer, i do. on this committee we've confronted this issue before about reducing delivery standards. we are a little bit concerned right now with the numbers we have in december. the christmas rush where i think 38% of the local first class delivery was on time and that's down from 91% in the previous year. so let me just say this. >> i would say that isn't accurate information. >> that's what we have from the postal office so that's what i have to work with. all i have to say is this if the business plan for the post office is to deliver an inferior product and we are in competition with fedex and ups and amazon, that spells trouble. that leads me to believe we

would be going into a downward spiral. the solution can't be to not deliver the mail or deliver three to five days instead of next-day delivery when we can get around to it delivery. that won't work just like going to five days didn't work because that isn't what the customer wanted. the customer wants seven days delivery not five days and my colleagues on the other side of the aisle finally agreed with that and dropped their proposal so for what it's worth that is my sense of it and thank you for your willingness and i you will yield back the balance of my time. >> is a gentlewoman from north carolina is recognized for five minutes. >> [inaudible] thank you madam chair for holding this hearing. all of us are affected by the post office, all of us use the

post office and want the post office to be sufficient. i want the post office to be self-funded as it was planned to be many years ago. i use the post office a lot. the local folks in my area are great and i enjoy talking with them. i want to thank the witnesses for being here today. i have a question my understanding is you represent 200,000 of the 600,000 postal union workers. i want to ask you how your union and the others are going to help assure the success of the postal service operational reform efforts that the board of governors and the postmaster generals have jointly designed, and i don't want you to mention more money. what all are you going to do better than you've done before? because you have a real self interest in this issue.

>> well, better than we've done before. i think the postal workers do a great job, and i think the postal workers, we seen this in a pandemic underscored in these dangerous times. the postal workers themselves and the unions they represent actually have done a lot to try to deal with the staffing issues and the overtime issues. and in fact have addressed questions of pay pay rates and benefits in a way that before my time. >> my understanding is the benefits are climbing as the mail volume is decreasing even though there may be a very slight decline in employees. the number of employees is not going down, and serve it with the volume going down, but the benefits are going up.

>> the union believes all workers should have decent living wages and good benefits. the unions have given up a lot of wages including some of the benefit structure over time. >> name one specific example. >> in 2011, the postal board of governors testified before congress the american postal workers union gave up $4 million of wages and benefits and the one contract for the life of the contract and that keeps going forward. we've increased the contribution unfortunately from our point of view with the contribution that workers pay for their healthcare premiums and have tremendously increased at the detriment of the worker. >> but don't most people in the private sector pay some on their healthcare benefits? i think most people in the private sector do pay for their

healthcare benefits. >> but again, i don't want to argue. i'm sure you are aware postal workers pay 28% of their premiums for a family health plan that's over $6,000 a year the postal worker pays out of their pocket. >> okay. what do you want the post office to be self-funded? to do you want to be self-funded, self-sufficient and not have to keep coming back to congress to ask for money? >> i don't know any time outside of covid in my history as a union before that, i know of no time outside of the covid emergency relief that taxpayer dollars since it changed under the law in 1970 taxpayer dollars have been used going into the postal service more has the post office as far as i know come before this body seeking money. i am not sure where all of the bailout idea comes from.

>> should the postal service give incentive for the retirement of older employees them hire new employees? >> that is a decision that the management makes. you are asking about early outs, congresswoman? >> just yes or no. >> that is a postal service decision. >> alright i have a question. according to cbo the medicare trust fund will run out of money as early as 2023. integrating the retirees will expedite the collapse of the medicare program. what happens to postal retirees then? >> that is a medicare trust fund is that what you're asking? >> and the employees are put into medicare as opposed to their own healthcare fund. >> i'm sure that is a bigger challenge than the postal employees but it's not work that

we've done at this point. >> about that is they wanted to get into the medicare plan knowing that it's going to run into trouble before your own medical plan is going to run into trouble, so what does that say about the approach to this? >> again, that is something that is a bigger challenge than the postal service and not one that our work addresses or that i am prepared to address. but we can get back to work on that area. >> one more quick question, not a question i have some material i would like to enter into the record. >> thank you. the gentleman from tennessee is recognized for five minutes. thank you madam chair. many of our colleagues have mentioned the goal of self funding and it is a worthy goal

but it isn't a goal that you pursue it in your private sector companies, self funding the health benefits over 75 years that would have been disastrous for your company. >> we had self funding but they were not advanced actuarially the rest of everybody's life so no we wouldn't have had that. >> and no other federal agency has this requirement. >> not that i'm aware of. >> we are putting a burden on the post office that is extraordinary and fatal and this congress is hopefully going to lighten the burden, but the self funding requirement i think has more implications. i think it would be better if we all agree we need to minimize the subsidies because the cost of delivering mail in alaska is clearly higher than in a more urbanized state.

>> it costs more to get to alaska and that is a different question. >> but alaska is part of the united states just as rural citizens are part of the united states and it costs more to deliver the last mile to those people. >> it does but there is a process. >> it's a largely unacknowledged cost because the price of the stamp is the same everywhere that's the intent of the universal service. a. >> but that implies a hidden subsidy and tax because some people pay more and -- >> the cost for the service as designed by the congress. it is a service. it's not a tax. you have the choice not to mail something. >> most people rely on communication and the private competition you place is more flexible at the rate. the post office for the cost

very wisely. >> that is again the design of the system. a. >> the problem is we haven't been able to address the pricing for 14 years and until just recently but that's been most of the damage done to the organization. >> it puts the post office at a disadvantage because of the design of the program. it is flat rate postage and goes everywhere at the same price. >> we talk about market dominant male products, which that's what you're speaking about now which we really don't have other competition in that area other than digital communications and failure to evolve over the last ten years. so i don't really understand what you are getting at. fedex, amazon, ups would they be doing as well if they didn't

rely on the post office for the last mile of coverage? >> fedex has a competitive product which we need to get better at doing. we have operational but not evolved. >> but they rely heavily on the last mile coverage because we are the only people that provide that. >> that is not really true. fedex actually doesn't do the last mile delivery with us has been significantly reduced over the last year. >> but they still rely on the post office to deliver and you have been making money on the increased package deliveries that have been sent to the post office direction, right? >> it's been up significantly. >> that's been the silver lining in the cloud. >> the cost coverage on the competitive package volume is different than cost coverage on mail as the pricing is designed. and it's important that we recognize the difference in what

it is you're identifying here. package delivery versus mail delivery going to every address versus going to where we can price competitively because that is a big part of the problem we are attempting to solve. >> i think it was mentioned that the 45 billion saved for the employees now is invested in low yield treasury bonds. it would be interesting if the money had been invested in the stock of amazon, fedex and ups would the employees be doing better today? and they are now with the youth low yield treasury bond? >> yes sir. >> how much better? >> the zillions of dollars. >> we are all familiar with the investment strategy of the federal government's and social security investment strategies as that has been long debated as you give up risk for a price.

that is a whole another discussion that you all have had for years. >> you are a political appointee. no one knows how much longer. >> that's incorrect i'm not a political appointee. i was selected by a bipartisan board of governors and i would appreciate if you would get that straight. >> how much longer are you planning to stay? >> a long time. get use to me. >> as long as the board approves? >> as far as my commitment to see the plan through, i'm here until i can see it tangibly produced results we intended to. i believe the board is for that. >> that isn't determined by you it's determined by the board. >> it could be determined by me. i have other things i can do. >> the gentleman's time is expired. mr. jordan from ohio is recognized for five minutes. >> do you have any protesters at

your house last night? >> not last night. >> president biden called for you to resign. >> the president has not called for me to resign. >> any member of the board call for you to resign? >> no sir. >> have any republicans or democrats called for it? >> it's hard to tell the board meetings because we are all very much acting in a bipartisan manner focusing on postal issues, but there are two gentlemen the chair identified as registered democrat and i think there's another gentleman on the board. >> has the chair of the committee called for you to resign this congress? >> she has not. >> she called for you to be suspended last time. a. >> we have had good conversations. >> i know where mr. conley is at and some of the democrats but last time there were protesters banging on pots and pans outside the house and calling for you to

resign. i just want to know what has changed. >> that isn't for me to answer. >> they were so ticked last time they passed a bill they called it in on a saturday in august to pass a bill and had a hearing on the bill they passed two days later. remember that? >> it was an unfortunate set of circumstances for me, for my family, for the postal employees, the postal board. none of it was based in any type of fact. it was sensational is asian. but i'm through that. we are just trying to get this legislation passed and get on with the improvements. >> they passed a bill saturday august 202nd, the bill they knew had no chance of becoming law that wasn't taken up in the senate then at hearing on the bill they passed two days later. normally they do with the other

way around, the committee gets together to look at the legislation, it doesn't have witnesses give testimony and then you may be passed out of committee, they called it in the special to pass the bill on a saturday and had a hearing monday and all that weekend they had protesters at your house disrupting your family and your neighbors as well and now you're telling me you've got no one on the board of governors asking you to resign, no protesters, the chairwoman hasn't asked you to resign and i want to know what's happened. what is different between february 204th, 2218 august 204th. what happened in those six months. what could explain the democrats difference in attitude? >> congressman, i don't want to dissipate. >> i'm asking a simple question would you hazard to guess what might have happened between august 204th -- >> they passed a bill and had a

hearing on it what may have happened between august 204th 2020 and february 204th 2021, what could have happened that would change the attitude of democrats? >> one of two things, either everyone is anxious to hear the new strategic plan or we had an election. >> i'm sure that's it. [laughter] still waiting for an answer. i asked you to comment on something and you wouldn't do it then either. what happened between august and february? >> we had the election. >> it was all a charade. you don't have to take my word for it. "the wall street journal" called it the giant conspiracy theory. that it was all a part of the predicate for laying the groundwork for the mail-in ballots and all the chaos and confusion the democrats wanted and the law they passed in so

many states in the unconstitutional fashion it was all about politics. it was all about the election. do you agree with that? >> it was a very sensitive time for the nation and a lot of activity. >> they accused you of things that you were restricting overtime, false. they told you you were taking collection boxes doing something that had never been done before even though it had been done by every postmaster general 12,000 had been moved by the obama administration but all of a sudden now you were the worst. again under the guise of creating this crazy chaos they wanted relative to the mail-in balloting and you were the one that used it to launch at all this summer when everyone was calling like i said they had you at the worst guy on the planet and now everything is so much

better. >> the gentleman's time is expired. >> the gentleman from virginia is now recognized for five minutes. thank you madam chairwoman. although gas lighting that we just heard doesn't change the facts. please move the microphone close. am i making this up as mr. jordan what have you believe that the president of the united states last summer publicly said voting by mail would lead to massive fraud, did he say that or am i imagining that? >> i don't think you're imagining it. what i recall him saying at one point is he was going to make sure the postal service got no

financial covid relief because then they would be able to effectively deliver the ballots. >> but the point is it was donald trump, the republican nominee who was planting the idea, aided and abetted by disruptive changes and it eroded the confidence. that wasn't a democratic narrative. that was a republican narrative by the president of the united states and the enablers and by the way, inconvenient fact. they would have to believe thatt it was the partisans on the committee and he quoted a number of democrats, by the way, admitted democrats for the record i am an admitted democrat and damn proud of it. i didn't vote to overturn an election and i will not be lectured by people who did about

partisanship. but facts are stubborn things. it wasn't the idea that it was complete fiction that the changes proposed in fact implemented with the board led by mr. bloom now who's admitted you went along with him, it was a judge that found it politically motivated, not a democratic critic. i refer you to a story last september. u.s. district judge upheld a challenge by 14 states and joined the postmaster general to stop what he was doing and said the states have demonstrated the defendants are involved. they are involved in a politically motivated attack on the efficiency of the postal service. that isn't from partisan democrats. that is a federal judge, and

that wasn't the only ruling that provided the injunction to stop the deliberate disruption of the postal service that was contributing to the confidence and ability of people to vote by mail. that wasn't a democratic plot and all of the gas lighting we are listening here doesn't change the facts. mr. bloom, you have admitted that in fact you supported and do support the changes mr. louis dejoy undertook that were criticized not just by democrats, but by actual american people who received the mail or didn't buy businesses, by stakeholders, by the media. that didn't just originate in this room. somehow, people were bothered by it because one of the most sacred institutions in america that still works during the

pandemic was being threatened in the public mind by these changes and the reason was political. we didn't make that up. a federal judge did. you agreed with those changes. you agreed to hire mr. louis dejoy because you found him qualified. you were according to one of your colleagues, you were all tickled pink with the performance of the postmaster general in the height of the controversy during the pandemic. are you still tickled pink with his performance? >> the board supports the postmaster general. >> do your colleagues say 100% of the board were tickled pink and had complete support, was he speaking for you that you were tickled pink? just want to get it on the record. >> i am generally not tickled pink by things. but as i said, the board of governors believes the

postmaster general in very difficult circumstances is doing a good job, and we've been involved with the development of a plan that we think will make the postal service much stronger -- >> i appreciate that. i'm running out of time. respectfully, i disagree and i hope president biden disagrees as well and we take action to replace the board of governors with people who care about the postal service and are committed to their job of oversight and accountability. i would yield back. >> a point of order. >> the gentle man is recognized. >> i just want to state for the record mr. connelly pointed over about voting and to object in the election. i've never voted to object to a presidential election but i will tell you who has, nancy pelosi in 2004. i just wanted to state that for the record and i will yield back. >> if i may, i appreciate the

distinguished gentleman's comments. i did not name anybody who voted to overturn the election, certainly didn't mean to include him if he didn't do it. >> gentle man yields back. the gentleman from wisconsin is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. first of all, i would like to just in general thank you for getting out the contrary to the new delivery vehicles. you did a great job in selecting the vehicles, and i'm sure that they will be a great asset to the postal service. >> next i have kind of a technical question i know there's a lot of controversy about this pre- funding the pension plan and i talked to people back in my district who are very emotional about it. they don't know how it works so i figure between the two of you here you should know how it works. if we have three different

individuals in the pre- funding in the first decade in 2006 -- >> i can't hear you. >> okay. i believe they began the pre- funding at around 2006, 2005 around then. if i have three different employees, one employee began working at the postal service in 1975 and ended in 2005, so he entirely worked for the new mandate. we have another employee who began working in 2000 and is going to retired in 2030, so he kind of straddles the period before the pre- funding and the period after. we have another employee that starts working in 2010 and winds up retiring in 2040, so his entire tenure is part of the pre- funding. when we calculate the pre-

funding, how is it calculated? first the guy that retires before it begins, is that pay-as-you-go for his pension? >> a fellow retires before the pre- funding began, the cost of his retirement benefits would actuarially be counted and the underlying cause that he wouldn't have the pre- funding. ... >> the way the calculation

works is we take all employees that are postal service employed three years or four years and another 30 years ahead of them and we calculate the future retirement benefit would be and amortizing that over a period of time. >> i understand. the person already retired , the way we pay for his pension or medical is unrelated to what happened in 2005, 2006. >> you are right. >> he was okay. and the person who starts after that when we calculate

that that is entirely amortized and we calculate how much money to put in there so when he retires we are ready to go. the guy in the middle that starts working in 2000 and retires 2020 is a hybrid. >> yes. we pre- find some but not all. >> once the pre- funding mandate comes in you would calculate what that liability was in and that would be amortized as part of the pre- fund. >> do we try to catch up or not? if we have a postal employee working for the mandate but when he retires that we still have that liability unfunded. is that correct should it be the money that we set aside in

part pay-as-you-go? >> yes. the overall liability is calculated based on everybody on the payroll and retirees. that is adjusted every year. the pre- funding portion was to advance to put more money into the fund for the future retirement benefit everybody on the workforce they are not vested and may not get to a retirement status within the postal service we are pre- funding the liability.

>> i guess i used up all my time. >> it sounds like i confused you more. >> you are recognized for five minutes. >> good morning mr. dejoy. as you said on your testimony the performance in the election that was a great success story. correct? >>. >> as you detail in your testimony you provided timely delivery of the ballots entrusted to you. right? >> to do everything possible. >> i don't know if we are in charge of friday what you are referring to.

>> you did everything to prevent fraud with the mail and balance in your custody. correct? >> we protected the security. >> you are not aware of any fraud with what you delivered? >> no. >> joe biden won the election? >> yes sir. >> let me turn you to what the "washington post" produced every six to talk about the on time performance of the delivery of today and three and five day first-class mail. basically it charts what has occurred with the on-time delivery from january 2020 through december 2020 and at the top it says january 2020, on-time delivery was roughly around 90 percent in on-time delivery between

three and five day mail was roughly 80 percent 90 percent for today delivery 80 percent for three or four or five day delivery for first-class mail. he took office around june 20t. >> june 15. >> there enough. and taking leadership at usps with the today delivery roughly the nineties all the way down to 70 percent toward the end of the year and with regard between three and five day it went 80 percent when you took charge of usps down at approximately 40 percent according to data from usps. when you get to 40 percent what you tell your customers you have a four out of ten

chance between the three and five day delivery standard will be met. that is starting to sound like vegas. the problem is sending a letter through the usps should not be a game of chance and that's why my constituents are so outraged. when we talk about today mail. according to the fed rate 12 "washington post" there is an article that says you have discussed plans to eliminate today delivery for first-class mail. you don't dispute you are considering that as part of the ten year plan the elimination of the two day delivery first-class mail standard. are you? >> we are evaluating all service standards. >> sir. would you commit to keeping today delivery of first-class mail locally?

>> there will be today mail class in our plan. some percentage of that of the reach right now may change. >> so what you're saying for local mail. >> to find local. i don't agree with your premise. >> you can take that up with the washington post. >> i think that's unfortunate you get your information from their it takes more than that to fix the postal service. there are many members are here. >> let me turn your attention that according to your own testimony you said the first step of the operational changes as we became more

disciplined by running our trucks on time and on schedule according to page 14 the investigation the showing the trucks that ran on time left half empty and left mail at the processing facilities. so let me ask you this. the constituent that comes to me complaining the medication has not read on - - arrived on time i should not tell them the trucks were on time? >> our position has always been. >> your time is expired. >> to the constituent that complains the medication has not arrived on time. i should not just say the trucks ran on time don't worry the trucks ran on time. >> you are correct and we agree with you. >> i yield back. >> the gentle man from texas

is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for being here today. i appreciate the opportunity to address this important topic and the postal service has been on the high risk list since 2009 with the obama biden administration. it is time to address it for sure. welcome back postmaster mr. dejoy it's great to have you back and hopefully more substantive conversation than the last time you were here. unfortunately was such a highly politicized environment it seemed impossible to get anything done in the way of conversation. so remind us how the postmaster mr. dejoy became postmaster was at a bipartisan standard or and appointee? >> at the end of last year the

then existing postmaster general indicated she intended to retire. and the board search process hired an outside firm that specializes in the search. we wound up identifying 200 people who were potentials. there were a number of people interviewed and then finally the board came to a decision. >> a bipartisan board? >> the board at the time and today has both democrats and republicans on it. >> the vote was partisan? >>

[inaudible] >> that is part of your experience in the private sector you came into the position to make systemic changes. one of those was the things you looked at over time cost are going up meanwhile the book delivery was going down. c began to look at that is there is a way to save money for the american taxpayer. maybe didn't understand the political environment that this is been the case with the systemic issues. the gao put out a report may 2020 the usps current business model is not sustainable financially due to declining mail volumes and decreased compensation and benefits and unfunded liabilities and that.

we've known for a long time the usps is not in a sustainable business model especially with the changing dynamics. does this bill address any of these issues? >> in our planned there are between three or four different elements or segments that bring us to sustainability and growth with the american people. of where we need to be in the plan we put together. it is very important a future sustainability. we have a sustainable and viable postal service.

>> that is in short order. >> those proposals are not in this bill. >> will really is the only legislative ask in our plan. >> if you want a viable postal service and trust we have a plan to move forward, this is a good way to help. do you believe that rise for the postal service to increase worksharing? >> i'm not a fan of evaluating workshare in many ways is enable people to run around and network part of the reason

why we have the hollowed out network. but i do see third-party logistics they have customers and they need to get to the american people to start a long-term plan we need have a stronger marketing product and service that attracts that attracts all types of companies we saw during the pandemic the competitor stop delivering too many different areas but we continued to 260 million addresses per day we deliver 35 percent in right now we have an opportunity to grow that and have a partnerships with commercial businesses to be fully

integrated with them as third-party organizations. that is a big opportunity for us. >> the gentleman from maryland is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you very much madame chair. first thank you thank you for the propaganda we have been treated to but chairman bloom, do you and the board agree with mr. dejoy contemplated elimination of first-class mail delivery in two days is this something you have discussed in would this improve the public satisfaction with current delivery performance? >> as i said earlier the plan has not been finalized so i simply have to rely upon my broad statement that you have a lot of opportunity.

but the plan is committed to placing to strength and grow the postal service. there are elements we don't suspect and others that do but i could ask when you evaluate we look at it in its totality and in its totality it moves the postal service forward. >> in terms of totality the idea that seems to have some buy-in from chairman, what is the logic of eliminating first-class service that generally deliver the mail in two days instead of a three or five day window? how does that improve the appeal and the resilience to the post office? >> we believe the postal

service will survive these minor changes we are making. not coming up with an operating model that can get out of losing $10 billion per year. somebody mentioned the future death spiral. i would suggest we are on a death spiral. we cannot continue to lose money but what we are looking at first-class very big part of our model. and those were more than first-class standards we have operated many different networks and have not made performance.

>> but the first-class mail prevented from being shipped. >> do you plan to prevent first-class mail from being shipped by airplane? >> in her strategy if we in fact to get the relief that we need in terms of time and i will tell you a big reason for our service performance failures this peak season carriers performed at 50 or 60 percent. >> if you would just explain the philosophy between the contemplated change how does changing the standards to double or triple delivery time successfully address service problems? >> do you want me to answer that?

>> three days to get from new york to california. we cannot do that on a truck. we take the mail we process the originating plant load on the truck take it to the air terminal. they loaded on the plane. the mayfly it to another location somewhere around the country to be sorted by somebody else. then maybe get on another plane to fly to the other location and then go to the terminal handling charge station loaded on a truck to go to the area mail distribution center to go to the destination plant. and then be delivered by a carrier and we have three days to do that. that network sir, over the last year has been performing at about 55 through 75 percent rate. that is a lot of reason for our failure especially to the

christmas holiday. we had first-class packages not even in a statistic being held up at facilities across the country it is not reliable. >> just because it has been late under your leadership then you change the standard bill that into the system. >> the standards have not been met. that three to five day standard has not been met 80 percent over the last five years you could say i'm bringing the damage to the postal service but the place was operationally faulty because of lack of investment and lack of ability to move forward which is what we are trying to do. >> your time is expired. >>.

>>. >> and then to be accused of gas lighting to my colleague from virginia i don't think it is a post office issue. when election boards in certain states had a universal bailout that wasn't your problem that was election board problem. and then virginia took it out of context. with the election boards put out is that they put out. in my experience there are two types of businesses. if you make a crappy product

you go out of business. if you perform a crappy service you go out of business. and from my own experience and then have a couple of examples because it's gotten worse since a holiday. i just talked to my cpa e-mail the ten by 12 envelope from covid hundred 66 miles and arrived yesterday. a local counties service center five figure check certified mail return receipt mailed december 92 virginia. delivered january 7th. on 21st there was another package and envelope it took another month. a constituent reported five week delay to send an antelope 5 miles. these examples go on and on it is embarrassing when you have to call a retailer in this

case jcpenney because i received a bill do generate 25th the next day i got the one do want every 25th. so i personally have lost all confidence in the postal system. i get mail that does not arise earlier assigned to take the photograph and last week i had to first-class pieces of mail one showed up the other hasn't showed up yet. personally am doing everything i can i will send payments anymore that so much confidence i have lost in the system so they have a challenge ahead of you. and then to get to the point where she - - ripe at the mailbox in the garbage can.

and medicare integration. that doesn't enter into the medicare would be $140 a month and get a better deal than not doing that. that is unbelievable how that happened in the past. and a postal service workers are different than federal employees. so mr. dejoy i'm curious the 160 billion-dollar loss projected. what he factoring in for volume and then to the point

with those two big competitors and the amazons of the world. >> the plan we are putting forward we tried to have a balance plan legislation and cost improvements and we are preparing the organization. with increased volume mostly in the package business. >>.

>> the gentleman's time is expired you can answer the question. >> on the first point about the service, i have to remind this committee the postal service is where the pandemic exist but if mail and packages were delivery 161 million, six days a week over 96 percent all the service things. the problem was getting mail and packages to the network significant at capacity was

lost 40 percent package volume over the ip plan that we had a truck load of mail is 5000 pieces this is not amazon but american consumers. that we have not machine the bowls which are 100 percent more. big boxes our workers have no machinery to deal with. we have 650,000 person organization. and then turned over to the environment. and a historical lack of good

tactical procedures for the workforce. this is the culmination of what happens this is a plan we will address going forward and it does have growth. >> the gentleman's time is expired. >>. >> like you in so many members of the committee we have an opportunity to put in place a process where the postal service is in a position for sustainability well into the future. and those changes implemented under the leadership of t13 and that of the postal service.

>> we need to see your face by law during the questioning we cannot see you. >>. >> now we can. >> a question the relationship during that meeting between the accelerated removal of soda machines and collection boxes and the decreases and those implemented in july and with zip codes held by the national association of letter carriers. and postal workers across the board. but the people on this committee and citizens across the country for whatever

definition they choose to respond. but in my opinion and those that continue to empty mailboxes. i appreciate the ranking members previous line of questioning if they thought that t13 intent was to slow down prior to the election and i would say that unless it was a heart surgeon it was impossible for a third-party witness and the intent in their heart or in their brain

and that question to the witnesses is mr. dejoy's actions have the effect of slowing down the mail the disassembling of sorting of machines and the denial of overtime request to have the effect of slowing down the mail and i would venture to say they would say yes that is the effect and that was the effect i receive a fairly significant member on - - number of complaints from constituents of gone days or weeks without receiving their mail and on time and then has been the case for months it is very difficult and trying to find a way to craft new legislation but there are a lot of people who pay extra money, late fees for bills that were not late but delivered late in many who

missed out on the medication schedules because they were not on time. they have had harmful impacts on the lives of their constituents i'm grateful the chairwoman decided to hold this hearing to the legislative proposals on a sustainable footing. but let's not rewrite history. so what happened between then and now to have a happy and fair election we owe a debt of gratitude to postal workers all over the country who against great odds deliver the mail on time and delivered ballots on time the bad news is we are left with the effects so the postal service financial condition has deteriorated over the years due to a number of factors and

i do believe the proposed opportunities can reinstate service standards to implement those kind of protections for postal workers we can get away from casting aspersions for the very first hearing set up to find a way out of the problem so i would yield back thank you for coming back and i would ask before i yield back my time can you tell us when the strategic plan for real and will you commit today to come back before this committee to explain in detail on to receive the critique and the questions with the members of this committee? >>.

>> i yield back. >> you recognized for five minutes. >>. >> we are having technical problems now to the gentleman from florida you are recognized for five minutes. >> said there's been a lot of

speeches so i would just get to questions. my number one question is can you describe the legislative reforms to assure cost do not increase going into the future? >> sure. thank you for asking and that word address the retiree health benefits fund between 25 and 33 percent to be the index fund the same way federal workers as index fund and the result of low yields from treasuries and the money

would grow faster and they did a study on that and it's about strategy as far as i can tell. my feeling is the postal service in general needs operation all freedom to figure out ways i know they like to say the paper mail deliveries i don't know why this needs to be mandated to let the postal service adjust accordingly. with the postal service with $5 billion over time that they

need to hire more employees temporary employees with extra overtime cost that is worth exploring in collective bargaining if we can come to agreement and then the postal service condition is not considered so putting it to be considered and then could cause problems for the long-term. >> can you expand on your testimony and describe how big of an impact the current financial crisis with the overreliance has been?

>> yes. we did that work and released last summer there was significant increases 2014 through 2019 and over time obviously we were in a different time. of covid and had not been a consideration at that point. there are different considerations now and with that six year period. >> t13 you can answer this one. do you support shifting the defined-benefit pension contribution more in line with the private sector would you

say that was more in line with the private sector. >> the compensation and benefit plans in the postal service right now have been negotiated that's not anything we are looking at and work with the leadership that we have spent eight months with leadership at the postal service and then to define the

best solution was with the american people and we have come up with a plan. and then messing around with employee benefit plans is not part of what i'm interested in right now. >> the gentle man yields back. >> thank you chairwoman for this hearing. i truly appreciate it and a serious concern i've heard from my residence on ongoing service issues sold mr. postmaster i went to bring your attention to the screen. this is a barcode machine a

can process 35000 pieces of mail for our? >> i don't know exactly but it seems like you know so i will accept that. >> i appreciate that. yesterday without ongoing service issues in southeast michigan. for delivery the bar code sorter machines removed prior to the election now have been reinstalled in detroit. so detroit has not been given permission to use them though. and then to receive them and

had not get an an e-mail at once a week so this is not an isolated incident. so i am really interested, mr. dejoy did you realize they had not given permission? >> i would say sometimes that communication is not accurate so i would have to check. >> that is a huge miscommunication. do you commit to immediately begin working to get the detroit facility to use the's machines to get mail sorted? >> you are assuming your information is accurate. what i am saying is that i don't know.

>> it's good to see you are consistent about adjusting and not knowing about the's issues and the agency. for sorting machines and somebody needs to give permission to use the machine then why bother putting them in their if they cannot use them? do you agree that is an issue? >> but there are machines and you are asking me about an area which historically has significant delivery problems. >>. >> and that he has not been

given a green light to use them. check it out and find out that miscommunication and get the machines up and running. do you want to commit you will look into that? >> we don't receive taxpayer dollars but i will look into the story on this machine and i will get back to you. >> they are there. i'm just asking you to do your job and find out why they have not started using them. so just to acknowledge the information that i am giving you that something is wrong when they are sitting idly by. so given the's ongoing issues

and with those service standards going forward. >> we believe in prompt reliable and efficient service and it frustrates the employees it angers them because we treat the mail as our own went to treated as if it was coming to our family members and friends. so going forward legislation is a key part to provide financial support with the burden of funding and by the investment of the funds in a retiree plan but the postal service has taken a positive step they need to deal with chronic understaffed and they have agreed to hire 11000 more people around the country and mail processing. that will help they should look at expanding services

such as financial services and charging stations for electric vehicles. all sorts of things that can be done to make it how can i trust the postal service to get the work done with the person of the country and went on to long. >> but if i am a. >> in my recognized?

>> yes. >> we are having a communications problem. we cannot hear you. >> i'm sorry. >> we are having a communications challenge. >> you will have to move on. >> mr. keller is recognized for five minutes. >> madame chair based on testimony of today's hearing the postal service is in the process of finalizing the long-term business plan. >> i am and muted. >> mr. keller is recognized.

>> i will continue to go. >> he was recognized. >> as i was saying as the postal service is in the process of the long-term business plan some high-level summaries are included today. with the promise of the release at face value the committee has been waiting on a comprehensive long-term business reform plan for several years. when will this committee be in receipt of the plan? >>. >> what date? >> i will tell you in march.

>> i'm struggling to understand with reforming the postal service has yet to be finalized. it's my expectation to fully examine this plan and the suggested reforms. and with those unrestricted services would be irresponsible for the united states postal service starting with universal service obligation and the overall mission say think your communications and the american people with each

other i appreciate the hard work of our postal workers and letter carriers they are the ones to get the job done every day and any frustration with the lack of progress we have seen has directed at the leadership service performance cannot improve the environment where costs are increasing the network needs attention customers expect more as a task force recommended to ordinarily define for what it requires and in other words to better define the mission in order to move forward to solvency. what are your thoughts on that quick. >> the plan addresses the two fundamental things continuing

to deliver six days a week and self to sustaining so talk about narrowing the mission it makes adjustments it makes adjustments and the things that we are asked to do that is costly but at the end of the day six days a week we are delivering to every household in america and growing our business by aligning to the new economy and positioning the organization to fulfill the obligations our network

depends on transportation and those contractors that drive up the cost there are billions of dollars in this network with their own self-help plans that is not consequential to employees and the american public is just better operational management of what we are doing. >> we will see that in the plan. >> yes you will. >> we have a postemployment benefit plan for the postal workers and that is funding the retirement plan and we do that as we go that's currently

funded. >> and we pay that as we go. we should do the same thing with healthcare we need to keep the problem promise to the people who did the work every day it pays as you go. they are earning that postretirement benefit. to think the money will appear the day they retire is irresponsible so let's have an honest discussion if we have to catch up because we did make payments in the past is one thing. the other was we need to make sure we catch that up and pay as we go. the terminology is very clear as a private individual with a retirement account and you can afford things then you make the contributions over a series of years. plus the investment equals the necessary cash to fund the benefit. is not be funding but paying as you go. i have run over but i wanted

to make that an important part. >> we do have significant balance much more than federal government and the issue before us right now is medicare integration with $35 billion we paid into medicare and 27 percent of retirees do not take advantage of it and the pre- funding that we do is a requirement by the congress for the actuarial calculations that they may never need the benefits. >> but i don't think this is unfair treatment of the postal service that needs to be corrected.

>> and protect the benefits people are earning to call it pay-as-you-go the chair recognizes the gentle man from illinois. >> thank you mr. chairman and also the chairwoman maloney for calling this hearing i'm pleased to know everybody has indicated they are in favor of getting rid of the prepayment. as a matter of fact i recall being on the committee that passed the legislation. and voted in the end and that what was voted. and with those news reports of

those problems we had in the chicagoland area. everything you have mentioned has been our problem and our issues. and in the traditional and it gets pretty bad so they are screaming and crying and climbing up the wall and to know when they can get delivery or wanted to know when there is some relief. i know we are talking in terms of the future direction of the postal service. but could you tell me what is done to bring some relief to the chicagoland area right

now? >> a number of the urban areas have been hit hard beginning with covid and also and as volume has come down almost through the third week of january for the holiday season and in that area and it's working hard and the real relief is coming from the volume coming down to use our capacity to get out and

deliver. certain areas i mentioned the statistic earlier, 650 or 660,000 personal organization not moving the needle up that is tremendous turnover within the ranks we had this year and it magnifies itself in the urban areas. >> are you hiring new carriers? >> we have been hiring across the board, yes sir. 50000 in the last two months 200,000 of the president said we converted 10000 in december and i am committed in working to stabilize it has the been an issue for us and then to stabilize that to give long-term career opportunities.

>> let me ask you an operational question. how much authority to local management teams have budgeted to make decisions relative to personnel needs? . . . . it wasn

itself that had too many broad functional aspects to manage any kind of impact. we have begun to spread it out at more functional lines, some corporate headquarters right down to the local post office and really started to work on the process. when you don't have a lot of committed process, then you have people second guessing. we are working hard and we have clarity, everybody from you know, a senior executive right down to a delivery unit. >> thank you, mr. chair man.

could i submit for the record select chicago stations and that area to the postmaster general inquiry about the services delivery? >> without objection, so ordered. the time is expired. the gentleman from louisiana is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. we had some technical difficulties earlier. i think those have been resolved to discuss the current challenges additionally i very much appreciate the letter that

you distributed to the members of the committee on february 18th it's an indelible part of american history. it's arguable that we could never have performed a silent republic of the many sovereign states without the reliable post office. we might not have and america to discuss without a silent post office you have to admit some serious challenges. i'd like to jump into that. it puts a burden on every aspect of business across america.

would you concur that the combination of the massive quantities of the mail-in ballots for the election cycle occur at the beginning of the protocols would you agree that is the root cause for increasing efficiencies is that dramatically increased the consequence of continuous erosion.

>> this is not news. it should all get fixed now. my colleagues across the aisle who could go and deliver a letter for 15 cents of course none of us could. if it this had stayed with me the point is of course historically the post office is always going through struggles and no exception now. we have to find a way past it and i will leave my remaining time to you to answer the

question. you will have about a minute and 45 seconds. you said we could improve and strengthen the institution from the generations. much work needs to be done but with your support confident and optimistic. please tell americo why they amy should be confident and optimistic in the future of the post office and i will leave my remaining minute and 20 seconds. during the pandemic and the

forest fires it's usually the first part of getting back to normalcy when you see people coming back into the communities the fundamental reason i'm an optimist in terms of the plan moving forward is you look at the pressure of the organization has been under the last eight months we still if we got the packages to the delivery units delivered to every household over 98% of the time and that is an advantage, looking forward to

get the mail and packages to that delivery unit in the most efficient manner and timely manner and use that delivery network to address the new economy as it moves forward to grow our business. >> my time is expired. >> the chair recognizes the gentlewoman from california do you know how big a postal service deficit is? >> we lost $9.2 billion is that what you're asking? or the 40 billion net equity

[inaudible] >> about $80 billion right now. a. >> when is the last time they reported a net profit? i believe that it was 2006. how much longer until it runs out of cash? >> tomorrow if i pay our bills. >> in the summer and the fall and according to the inspector general the last time you made changes, you didn't do any

analysis. this is according to the inspector general. you were in inspector general and didn't know the analysis. i heard you have a new strategic plan but i'm concerned it may neither be strategic nor planned. have you figured out if it would save money and improve performance? >> we've done extensive studies over the last eight months would you provide those and analysis

to the committee? >> when we announce the plan, we will produce a certain amount of information with regards to how we came about what our solutions are. but the committee has its powers to request whatever it is that it needs and it will go through the process. did you hire any consultants to help with the studies? >> the organization has had consultants for a long time and to the extent the management team used consultants support -- >> are they employed by the postal service or by outside

organizations? >> i consider all consultants when you say the word consultant i'm thinking outside organizations that are hired by the postal service. a. >> who are those consultants? would you please provide a list to the committee. if you would let me finish, it is that most of this plan was designed with about 150 people in the organization. and to the extent any of those groups had consultants working in the organization they may or may not have used them. but this is a postal leadership plan that was put together.

>> thank you. you said you're committed to managing the postal service with excellence. what do you treasure the most? what do you value about what the post office does, what are you not willing to change just to make a buck? >> i think as i said earlier one of the key attributes of the postal service that i think is very important both from the standpoint of what it is for the nation and for its viability because this congress and previous congresses say that it's self-sustaining and until

-- >> what is it that it does -- >> the gentle ladies time is expired and i think the gentleman has tried to answer. the chair recognizes the gentle lady from texas. you might be muted. i'm not sure. [inaudible]

i can hear you now. yes [inaudible] you are on, go ahead. thank you very much and i appreciate having this committee hearing today. i would like to tell you how much i appreciate and respect you and your colleagues coming today to the hearing in

washington, up on the hill that it's important for the american people to hear as well as members of congress. i previously served on the last postal subcommittee back in 1997, 98, 2009, whenever it was and we recognized how important the postal service was. employees, the service they provided to the country and the use of and about the employees i recognize there are members of congress that are frustrated.

but still postal employees have talked about us trying to get it together the best way that you see fit to run the operation. when you come up with what the long-term view is to include outside the box thinking like i am a part of and my background. i spent 16 years with at&t not just with the mission was, but the right way to serve it and i hope you will look at all the

things you believe are necessary for sustaining the post office, sustaining their mission. but also looking at things that might be out-of-the-box. to get the flexibility to run the business the way that it will sustain it. i am from waco texas and had a strong relationship with my postal carrier and the carriers at my home and my business. they are dedicated honest people who come to work every day. we need to support them but also make sure that the long-term effort when we look at it ten years from now that we can offer the word sustaining so it's my

hope that you will use my time with you today to say thank you for your devotion and effort and for having each of your people that are there with you today. i look forward to that answer that comes and hope that you will give some sort of thinking outside the box of ways congress needs to think about the way we think about you to sustain and i will yield back my time. >> the chair recognizes the gentlewoman from missouri for five minutes. thank god for the staff.

>> i want to thank you madam

chair, i'm sorry, madam chair. st. louis is home to postal service employees of more than 5,320 postal workers in my district. the united states postal service stays connected, provides jobs, delivers lifesaving medicines to save businesses and gives access to the ballot box. our community respects as a fundamental public service. the postal service's board of governors comprises 11 individuals including nine people appointed by the president with the advice and the consent of the senate and the postmaster general and the deputy postmaster general who are all appointed by the board of governors. how many members does the board have today?

>> six external governors and postmaster general. >> how long has the board lasted? >> i believe we haven't been at full strength and quite a few years. i will get back to you on the exact number but it's at least six or seven years since we had a full board. >> in general and the board how have they significantly suffered from the board of governors? >> congresswoman i guess what i would say is congress intended us to have a full board so i think the organization functions best when it has the diversity of the views that comes from a full group. nine is the number. i sat on other courts with nine and i think that it's good for the external governors i think it is a good number. i think that the board would

always benefit from additional perspectives. given that there are three governor positions and you are in your final year. >> president biden has the chance to fill the open positions on the floor. can i ask what career field did the governors cover? >> we have a diversity of backgrounds and there was another gentle man in finance and another business oriented individual. one of the governors has been involved as a pilot.

it is a diversity of backgrounds. >> what is the average net worth of the governors on the board? >> i have no idea. >> okay. how about any black indigenous or people of color on the board? >> it is comprised of six white males. >> currently the board includes only white men. this lack of representation is a critical opportunity to diversify the board. an agency of over 640,000 employees that comes from every walk of life and serves the entire american public should have representation at the top. more than 35% of the postal workers are people of color while 0% of governors are. meanwhile, the positions in the field that are not supposed to

be represented by special interests include wall street bankers. do you see it as a problem that the board of governors in the united states postal service looks like a millionaires white boys club? >> what i would say is that the postal service not having a full board is not enabling it to reach its full breadth of impact and i welcome that and i would say also there was a period when no board members on the postal service, but that isn't a problem with the postal service. that is a problem of whatever administration is in power and the senate at the time. the postal service would love to

have a diverse board that reflects its population, but this isn't something that is within our power. i would say that the period that whatever postmaster general leadership team was there at the time which i think was my predecessor, that had to be an unbearable time and totally huge consequence on her ability to lead and the ability for the organization to move forward and i feel very strongly about that and i think the quicker we get some new board members the less we can talk about this and move on to the plan and the problems we need to fix, so i welcome your discussion and whatever you can do to advance the process i would appreciate it. >> thank you. i would like to reclaim my time.

>> the time is expired. >> the gentleman from arizona is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you chairwoman maloney. i think the witnesses for being here today and appreciate all of my colleagues work to find a fiscally responsible future for the postal service, and i am looking forward to working with you on this effort. but today i want to discuss some of the events that affected the ability to deliver mail in a timely fashion. last year democratic colleagues turned a blind eye to nationwide mayhem, destruction and looting conducted by black lives matter and activists. many businesses and government agencies including the postal service all their entities burn and operations halted because of the persistent violent riots. the president of the national

nationalassociation of letter cs stated, quote the postal properties have been ransacked during the wave of civil unrest and letter carriers have been assaulted and robbed en route. the actions harmed the employees and citizens we served. here are a few examples of how the postal service was impacted by these events. in minneapolis to post offices were burned and usps vans were stolen and torched by rioting protesters. also in minneapolis the usps shutdown mail delivery at seven post offices. the post office in wisconsin had to close indefinitely due to the violent riots. in chicago, at least six post offices were broken into and burglarized affecting the mail delivery operations and in lancaster pennsylvania, post offices were filled with debris as the riots erupted across the

city. to make matters worse, a member of this committee went on national television ostensibly to discuss the usps funding crisis and called for continuing violence and unrest in the streets. as if it were not enough, the postmaster faced protests outside his home in dc perpetrated by false narratives from colleagues on this committee. given all this evidence i think our democratic colleagues have an apology to the postmaster and all of the hard-working postal service workers that were affected by the riots in 2020. can you elaborate, please come on how the civil unrest of last year affected your agency operations including financial impacts from the destruction itself? >> there's always consequential disruptive and costly both in terms of assets and stress on our employees. fortunately, in many of these cases, we had advanced notice

and were able to get our people out, lock up our buildings and the consequence comes to the people that live in those communities because they are deprived of the service and whenever the areas open up again it takes time to rebuild and reopen our facilities and deal with any of the destruction. so these had impacts. ..

>> the gateway pundit the usps writing minneapolis protesters. >> one from fox nine.com seven post offices and twin cities were had on friday.

kenosha main post office closes indefinitely due to violent riots. what from chicago sun-times for details the post office leading lancaster police police officer involved shooting one dated august 172020 from black enterprise.com calling for unrest of failures of the trump administration and when august 15, 2020 protesters are upset amid allegations of voter suppression. thank you madame chair. >>.

>> i want to turn to another topic. after operating implemented all changes last year service performance was substantially impacted the office was flooded with calls from constituents and i received countless pictures of pallets of a delivered mail. in september usps facilities during a morning shift percent to investigate the reports of the dysfunction. i provided management ample notice but yet i was denied entry. this is not an isolated incident several other members were denied timely tours. in the interest of transparency and enhancing public confidence wouldn't you permit members of access to tour upon request? please do not say at the time

the hatch act was justification the office of special counsel made it clear the hatch act was not sufficient to allow them to tour for the official purpose. >> i will check with our legal counsel and if there is a new position they wish the agency to take, personally i have no issue where you go or what you see. but there are agency rules and positions we take because we are an independent agency. >> i'm talking about upon request, not told we have to give 48 hours notice even around an election nothing

should bar member of congress to tour a facility for an official purpose but no matter when we ask there isn't any role that i am aware of two bar as to tour a facility and obviously adequate notice the morning for the afternoon before but reasonably you agree to remedy these requirements a member of congress can tour the facility particularly because this entire hearing has been about the challenges the postal service is having with delivering mail. >> as i said, that position if the hatch act applies or not, i am not able to comment. with regard to having members of congress visit our

plants, we will get back to you but i don't have a particular objective. but if you really want to go look at our problems i suggest you go to airports. >> reclaiming my time i don't need suggestions where i go i want to inspect public facilities and i would expect to ask counsel to communicate with office of special counsel with the hatch asked one - - hatch act specifically that we can tour upon request that's what i want an answer to and that's what i want to do. moving on to look forward to giving an answer from you soon as you can. also mail delays and service standards

many of the reports i received were about those and the reason is that the volume was down and however these machines are a vital tool for postal workers especially during election season. i asked this question before didn't get a clear answer when you commit to giving local plant managers the flexibility to reinstall sorting machines. >> no. i will not commit to that. >> why not? >> there is a process that we go through within the organization that determines what mail. >> reclaiming my time. >> i just want to make sure i ask about this issue. there have been reports usps leadership is pursuing

policies deliberately slowing down the mail by decreasing service standards. are you concerned there is a local ability of supervisors to request the sorting machines and also make sure we can maintain card service fees and what happened in the past with usps slow down the mail? >> the best way to answer the question is the postal service has an operation where people get the service they are promised under the law if that means local economy then there should be enough local economy to do that with that decision-making. the unions get involved with the relationships between the managers but there has to be in operation to be nimble enough and committed enough if that means local authorities and that's what it should include. >> thank you that's why the president needs to feel the boards we have a postmaster general that is committed to make sure that happens. i yield back.

>> i would suggest that will not solve your problems. >>. >> thank you madame chair for hosting this committee meeting is important to constituents that the status quo is not acceptable. i will also yield part of my time at the end for a couple of answers right now can you discuss and expand on the reforms you have made

mr. dejoy at the u.s. postal service from when you arrived in june 2020 what did you see it how did you decide what to tackle first? >> i'm sorry i didn't understand the question. >> can you discuss and expand on the reforms you made at u.s. postal service when you arrived june 2020? what did you see and how did you decide what to tackle first? >> when i first arrived i spent a lot of time with the management team doing increase actually i started 45 days before that so when i arrived on site i had spoken to most of the leadership team. i reviewed a lot of internal audit reports. we also have to remember when i came on at that particular point in time the agency was forecasted to lose $22 billion that year. up from seven or eight, we ended up at nine and ran out of cash in september. of cash in september. one of the top things i looke ws already let's go look and make e

because we run 50000 truckloads a day at 25 percent fall. that something we should accomplish so i implemented that and it crashed. we recovered in several weeks. i learn from that so that consequence is what led me to reorganize the reorganization is what we are doing right now the rest is about machines, cutting overtime, all of that is not accurate. >> thank you. >> earlier today i heard somebody say the service standards had been damaged in your opinion under your watch have they been damaged or do you think there has been improvements? i do appreciate you are undertaking this entire process more in light of running the agency like a business which i think is a very smart thing to do but i'm curious about the comments earlier of the service standards damaged. >> the out the standards we adopt a plan to nt make the changes that make this was exasperated by the peak season pandemic and a significant breakdown of the transportation network and due to extreme volume and increase characteristics, physical size characteristics presented to us. >> giving you a chance to respond that you are purposely trying to slow mail prior to the election can you

elaborate. >> the board is in full support of all extraordinary measures that were taken to try to fulfill our obligations to deliver election mail as well as he possibly could. but the key commitment of the whole postal service was supported. >> i yield back for the record i'm glad to be here today. >> mr. welsh from vermont you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madame chair. >> mr. dejoy there is a number

of catalog companies in vermont that depend on catalog sales. and as you can appreciate they are very concerned about the potential of increased cost of catalogs. my understanding is under consideration now is about a 7 percent increase in over five years, 35 percent, can you speak to that and your analysis and the impact that would have on those businesses and what they tell me and what to respond specifically to them? with that price increase they will have to reduce that marketing tool and probably go to digital. they don't want to do that and obviously have an impact on revenue even though your raising prices the revenue will go down. >> i have been speaking to many people in the industry of the recent ruling. our regulator, we had a ten

year test with the legislation and took four years to evaluate and they came to the conclusion that more or less the reduction of mail volume has had significant consequences to the postal service over the last 14 years they didn't fix any of that it could been between 25 and $50 billion that would have helped. >> but they are concerned about price increases. >> they should be because it's one of the levers we get to pull. i've established we have a certain amount of price increase that we can do. based on data for your analysis come as i have told industry it is a lover and part of the plan is pricing.

this legislation is part of the plan and operational cost savings is part of the plan and growth is part of the plan to the extent that we don't get anything else done but this ruling then i have to use at all. if we get cooperation and we can move forward with the plan and get the legislation we are not out to profit. we are to break even as you mandate us to. that's all that this is about so get moving on legislation the operational improvements we need to make that may include minor service adjustments the less we use price. the board and the team we want to be an economic and affordable user. >> i hear you acknowledging the price increases the pressure of their marketing planned and you are mindful of that.

>> i am very mindful to deliver an affordable service. >> i will also say there are many users of the mail system to deliver mail and packages. but a big part of our mail volume they are customers and we appreciate them but over 60 percent of commercial users are corporations that have a profit. certainly no one likes price increases but that does not mean there is no further reduction of mail. >> in my last 45 seconds, can you tell us what are the bipartisan proposals that are under consideration that you support? talking to the chair and the ranking member about provisions they agree on.

>> what i think they are speaking about is medicare integration that's in the bill and pre- funding elimination. that bill has some reporting. >> you do support that quick. >> yes sir. i supported in the union leadership supports it. it has been an unfair situation for the postal service. >> thank you and i yelled back. >> the gentle man from kansas you are now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for holding this hearing to help the committee in congress focus on the challenges facing the postal service. in rural america we understand the importance of postal mail to connector people and

communities. the unprecedented times united states postal service already having financial issues has been put under further strain. our founders recognized the importance of postal mail to uniting our country by including the establishment of post offices and roads in the constitution. it is vital across america. any postal reform consider by congress must be guaranteed continued long-term access to mail delivery to rural areas like kansas will also being financially responsible. every one of my constituents back home including corporate constituents like hallmark cards will suffer if we don't get this right. we must enact meaningful reforms to place the postal service in a long-term path to financial sustainability while at the same time increasing efficiencies and improving services. it's my hope in this hearing and subsequent hearings we will focus on the united states postal service challenges instead of focusing on politics.

mr. dejoy how are you doing today sir? >> i'm great. thank you. >> i want to ask when you talk about your bold operational reform agenda what aspects of the plan are you most worried about? that are at most at risk to immediate resistance? >> i think there are visions and aspirations for the postal service in terms of delivery that are just not achievable. we talk about flying. we don't own planes. so we have a deteriorated

transportation network. so we spend a lot of money and a lot of inefficiency trying to achieve these composite type standards that are just not doable in the current environment. then we get down to questioning if it really makes a difference if we are committed to six or seven day week delivery, does it make a difference if it is an extra day to get a letter? because something has to change. we cannot keep doing the same thing. last year we did $80 billion worth of service for the american people and recharged 70.

so my goal is to potentially charge 72 and get another two or three at of operational cost which is very achievable. but we cannot achieve it doing everything we continue to do. so i am worried about continued resistance to change which to everybody here seems concerned and recognizes there is an issue but to get consensus to make a move when we have a plan, it is a well thought out robust and balanced plan would be a real shame for not everyone to jump on and supported. >> thank you.

>> earlier you talked about the elements that needed to be added to the bill could you elaborate please? >> i know we had some technical difficulties but of waiting triple and quadruple rate increases the postmaster general was talking about the postal rate commission has allowed for. then i come back to that but then 60 delivery investing in returns for the employees and return the overpayments to the retiree system and this is paid through postage. were not asking for that back for the customer but to be used for the post office stability which is billions of dollars. but back to triple and quadruple rate increases going back at 2007 it was very painful personally it was the first year or the last year

the post office was allowed to increase by any rate today wanted before they were capped. and when it came out is between anywhere ten or 40 percent increase would kick in 2008 and immediately we saw the volume drop the industry loss between 30 percent of the volume. a lot of people blame the great recession but i will tell you that's not true. it started because of that big increase those catalogers that were just discussed in many others dropped me like a rock. >> your time is expired spent the gentle man from georgia is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madame chair. mr. dejoy you have led a distinguished career in business having served as the ceo of new greater logistics

1983 through 2014 and thereafter when that company was acquired by xp logistics, you served as the ceo of xp a logistics supply chain business. so you have a long and successful career in logistics. is that correct? >> yes. it is. >> and you brought that training with you when you accepted the position at the postal service beginning your tenure in may 2022. correct? >> june of 2020. >>. >> that's what i meant but you corrected me. but can you name for me one

enterprise governmental or private sector that is required to increase funds and health benefits for retirees and current employees? >> i don't know of any. i've heard of something someplace but for the most part it is nonexistent. >> and this requirement has created a crushing blow for the post office is ability to maintain solvency on a year-to-year basis. correct? >> yes or. >> when people talk about the post office not making money and being insolvent and needing to be replaced that's just not true? >> i don't think any of that is true. but we have financial problems.

>> and i tell you the decline of first-class mail is one of those factors. >> yes sir. we have lost over 45 billion pieces of mail per year from ten years ago. >> is that any reason why you would want to create a situation where first-class mail is not delivered within the current timeframe and you would want to stretch it out to let it be delivered at a slower pace than what is set in stone for right now?

why would you want to cause first-class delivery to be degraded? >> first-class delivery is degraded already because we don't make the service standards were not able to make service standards we haven't made service standards and it will be increasingly difficult to in fact make them. >> that you are trying to change the service standards to allow for first-class mail to be delivered over a longer period than the guidelines currently call for. >> we haven't released the

plan yet but what i will say if we move forward with the plan, only about 30 percent of first-class mail would be impacted with any additional delays and that comes because we cannot reach that mark. >> during the middle of a pandemic and in a climate where there will be more more ballots cast in the upcoming election you decided to change his delivery standards for the mail and as a result, the performance of the post office went into a steep decline. why did you do that? >> if you are talking about the past or the future? >> right before the judge ordered you. >> the changes that i made you would think that would make the mail move on time i was asked to put together a plan to have the trucks dispatch

from the plans on time. we had significantly leave vehicles, 50000 a day running around 25 percent fall. that is what i did. then we undid that we fix that that was all done. >> but it was lowered as a result of your actions spirit the gentleman's time is expired him answer the question. >> the transportation change that i made in july was remedied by the last week of august. it had no impact. after that we ran extra trips and late trips and did everything we possibly could.

the system is overwhelmed by package and mail volume and underwhelmed by the performance of the carrier networks and also quite frankly our own operations within the plant facilities. we talked earlier about embargoes. these were not embargoes we headlines outside the plants because we could not fit anything else in the plants. that is not an embargo that is physically overwhelmed. however, had we got mail and packages to the delivery units it was delivered 90 percent of the time within one day. so nothing that has gone on over the last four months had anything to do with me asking the trucks to run on time in july. >> your time is expired the gentleman is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madame chair for holding this important hearing into our witnesses for their testimony. is no secret and the election my home state of georgia was played with improprieties and irregularities. here to get into the specifics

or point fingers at the postal service i'm trying to understand terminology used more than ten times and the postelection analysis report. that extraordinary measures this was used throughout the report to highlight the success achieving the results that it did the report notes that some extraordinary measures deployed were deployed in previous years also want to make it known some of those extraordinary measures were court mandated as some were excluded as a former logistics officer the term extraordinary measures pertaining to metrics and results delivered leads me to thank you took steps above and beyond expectations. extra dairy measures is generally requires a reshuffling of resources and labor away from other primary tasks and duties. in the case of the postal

service those help to meet expectations to fulfill the mission not exceed them nor did you put proper accounting processes in place. my democratic colleagues are encouraging mail-in ballots as well as pushing a bill to restrict states rights to determine the vote by mail eligibility. for the entity already failing

and saddled with liabilities i cannot imagine that those extraordinary measures are sustainable. how critical is it for congress to take steps toward reform that bolster efficiency to make these extraordinary measures pertaining to meeting expectations relative of the past quest what we need? >> i'm a little lost on the question. >> how critical is it for congress to have reform to bolster efficiency for these extraordinary measures we are talking about >> a relic of the past? >> extraordinary measures are a set of procedures the postal service has done historically around mail and balance and that is something to see. we actually hunt inside the plants to make sure it is processed. this is different than another designation around election time. we are probably the most stable thing of the mail and ballot process. fifty states and districts

that have electoral boards and all their processes are different. that was a big reason

for some of the consequence why we need to go through extraordinary measures we do to get ballots out to the voters and to the electoral board. to the extent anything can be done to streamline that or even as something as simple as a barcode of first-class mailing would be very helpful to the postal service but going back to our plan for the future, there are extraordinary measures going on within the postal service everywhere. we have composite measures and metrics we have to fill that is not able to be fulfilled and it creates an operational process at times i find quite chaotic.

>> thank you i have one more question so to uphold the sanctity of elections 2017 investigation by office of special counsel found some employees violated the hatch act can you submit answers to the following detail of changes made to prevent violations during the 2020 election cycle especially as it pertains to ballots processed under extraordinary measures, and is the office of the special counsel investigating are planning to those violations that occurred last year? >> i am not aware of that for any violations that are talked about but we will look to the records. there was a commitment by the 630,000 men and women of the postal service to perform

within the letter of the law. >> i yield back. >> the gentle lady from california. >> mr. dejoy the president provided an executive order upon becoming president he wanted electric vehicles to be used to the greatest extent possible the gsa analysis on ev versus conventional they are equal because of the lower cost of maintenance and the cost of gas and will decrease with the cheaper cost of batteries. you just purchased vehicles but not one is ev? >> that's not true. we announced the acquisition yesterday. >> how many did you purchase? >> in the plan 10 percent.

>> why not 90 percent? >> we don't have that three or four extra billion dollars in the plan to do it. we are happy to talk with the administration and congress to help us. we spent $500 million. >> reclaiming my time. >> every the able can be converted to electric. >> thank you. i like to go one. october 2020 cbs news reported xp oh landed a highway shipping contract with usps the first that they signed with usps and more than a year in ongoing investigation revealed usps also awarded xp a logistics another highway shipping contract for 26000 november 2020 through 2022.

you are formally employed by ex- po logistics to maintain an interest when you came on board as postmaster general. october last year there was a certificate of divestiture that you finally agreed to divest have you completely divested? >> i have speak have you transferred any of your interest to your adult children? >> now. >> i have not transferred any of my interest to my adult children. >> your wife? >> now. >> have a lot of interest but specifically xp oh come i have not transfer that to anybody. >> any interest associated with the postal service contracts in the past

? >> of had a number of investigations with regard to ethics. oig report that stated everything i did came without recommendation. i did it right. i don't know where you are going with this but there are no ethical violations at my time in the postal service nor anywhere else in my career. >> evidently. >> evidently? >> oig did not review some of your accounts. the names associated is redacted i'm just curious if there had been an updated review of his compliance with ethics requirements. >> i complied with all ethics requirements. i did it immediately is a came into the organization. >> since the issuance of the report we completed the work and saw he followed guidance from staff and wrote the recusal to avoid conflict. >> let me and by asking, in my area of constituents, to ye franc d t bay are you willing to look at different rates of salaries for those in high-cost areas? >> the union leadership negotiate but i will tell you i'm committed to improving on the pre- career status of 200,000 employees within the organization to see a path to full-time employment and that's where we can improve on the retention and stay competitive in the marketplace and i'm very active in that work i recently converted 10000 people in december that hasn't been done in many years spent the gentle man from texas is recognized for five

minutes. >> the federal government in this institution are world-class experts at kicking the can down the road and burying our heads in the sand. we are terribly proficient at ignoring problems solving the current dire financial service should not be partisan it seems it is because i've been watching this for several hours now we should take partisanship and throw in the trash between 2007 and 2019 the postal service last $70 million and in 2029.2 billion. the postmaster general testified a couple years ago absence of real legislation to reform it would be flatbread

by 2024. and what are the answers proposed today by our friends on the other side of the aisle? cut cost? reducing workforce compensation eliminating unfunded liabilities? requiring the financial condition of the postal service to be concerned on - - to be considered? now. not one. we are trying to close 160 billion-dollar gap. taxpayer should not be on the hook is not as if medicare is a shining example of stability. how many other proposed reforms from the 2018 task force

have been implemented? any, how many have been implemented? >> we had a restriction on implementing a lot of different processes. but i did study the task force. there was some good directional elements and there were some things i would not sign on to but very much some of those elements after we announced a plan, i would be happy to discuss it. the white house support supported it should be a public entity and we need to look at new ways to market our services but to recognize they were cost and operational issues. >> is it fair to say some ideas were worth looking into? >> as a public agency we take all input. >> thank you i think you're doing a great job. i'm short on time. your union currently has a link to the 2020 line union contract and you tell your members contrac wit t at to cls well.

it's glaringly obvious the chasm has to be narrowed by eliminating those benefits. what is your union doing to help the postal service become profitable other than fighting management and you support the condition to be taken into account with future collective bargaining? >> you expect me to remember those? [laughter] >> are you willing to acknowledge the gap? >> i appreciate that a lot has been thrown around about the dire financial situation but a lot of this is liability and that is paper. we can say it's broke on purpose. our pension plans are overfunded. retiring healthcare fans are funded in a way no other federal agency does. there is a lot of money there. to me it doesn't get us to where we need to go. that isn't say we don't feel there are real challenges so what are we doing? we are huge advocates of expanded services to bring in new revenue such as the financial service world is licensing, paycheck caching or electric charging stations now

the third question is what have we done? the postal workers have given up a lot. glad you are reading our website go to the 2010 collective bargaining agreement we do get pay raises two years at all and lower the standards unfortunately they were having hiring. we didn't want to go that way that we believe good living wage jobs and good benefits and the problem isn't with the collective bargaining process heading into arbitration they are a model employee years and should remain that way. but i do take issue with the idea of the hundreds of billions of dollars thrown around and that's not the case and congress can fix it spent the gentle man from maryland is recognized for five minutes.

>> thank you madame chair. can you hear me? >> yes we can. >> i appreciate this hearing and the good work on the bill we've been discussing today. thank you for your efforts on that hopefully we can make forward progress. postmaster general, i thank you conceded there was some failure of execution in terms of a plan you were implementing last spring and summer. i thank you for that acknowledgment. the head scratcher for me is that you would barrel forward with your plan as the pandemic was ramping up. i just never understood. leave aside the pros and cons and i have a lot of concerns about why he wouldn't go into

a pause mode at a time when the postal workforce would be under incredible pressure i never completely understood. thank you first of all representation thank you for your union represents and then on those challenges that the postal service is facing. one of the components of the bill we are talking about in

addition to medicare integration and eliminating the requirement to predefined health benefits has to do with service performance and the idea of required targets to meet and terms of performance with the targets nationwide district levels for a plan going to prc addressing the failure to meet standards in the future. can you speak to how that focus and reporting regime relates to the postal workers union and other union support

for restoring the 2012 service standards that something you all have spoken to? talk about how you see those relating and your confidence and experience with the postal service management pulling the union into the conversation how to meet those standards and address any gaps between the standards and what is happening in practice. >> my union has not been consulted or sought input on the ten year plan. we were never consulted by the board of governors or by this administration. we think that's a real problem. we are all postal workers ourselves we are in touch with her members and we have a lot to offer. in terms of language of the bill we are glad you're taking on the question of service standards we made no bones about it we would like to see overnight delivery restored within our towns one side of the street to the others but we do appreciate that committee trying to address both sides of the aisle are very concerned and postal workers are equally frustrated. >> there is no hope of achieving the service standards of the public

expectation if those in the front lines are not collaboratively involved in that conversation with respect to committee and how we discuss propose legislation with the management of u.s. postal service. >> thank you madame chair the coronavirus pandemic has a great increase in the volume of packages moving to the volume to the system increasing 60 percent over the same period last years we have

been discussing. over the peak holiday season and the surge overwhelmed facilities packages piling up so much it became difficult for workers to move freely to do their jobs. i'm getting calls daily for my district, people crying and screaming into the phone their mail is drastically delayed between three or four weeks with the surge package volume was a major factor. reports that ups and fedex

had packages what you have to say about that mr. postmaster? >> i agree with you we have been overwhelmed by packages as i said in my testimony. the extent of which ups and fedex dumped, i don't know if that's the right word but they can refuse package volume and we chose not to so to the extent they were not taking volume we were the only outlet for the american people and we got a bunch of it.

that resulted what happened in your district all over the country of those conditions. >> i just got a christmas card last week. why did the postal service seem so unprepared for that surge? >> i'm here eight months and this is been going on ten years the erosion of the network, the end balance of the operating schedules, but even if i was here ten years

, we are in a pandemic congresswoman, the 40 percent increase of peak volume questions from the banking

committee which is chaired by senator sharon brown of ohio. >> this in the banking housing committee the virtual format printed the reminders as you began once you start speaking, there will be a slight delay before you are displayed on the screen. to minimize the background noise, please click the mute button. you should all have one box on your screens labeled and it will show how much time is remaining for witnesses you will have five minutes. opening statements. and s