>> greetings from the national archives. i'm producer of the united states and it's my pleasure to welcome you to today's virtual panel discussion led by lisa napoli, author of "susan, linda, nina, & cokie: the extraordinary story of the founding mothers of npr" . one of the founding mothersof today's book is sadly not with us . cokie roberts who died spent more than 40 years in broadcasting as a political commentator for abc news and npr. she won countless dsawards. she was conducted into the broadcasting and cable hall

of fame and was excited by the american women in radio as one of the 50 greatest women in the history of broadcasting. she was a longtime member on our board . she worked tirelessly on behalf of our education and outreach activities. cokie roberts and i often found ourselves in the rotunda with a conversation turned to the murals depicting the signing of the declaration of independence and constitution. cokie always demoed the fact that there were no women depicted . her counsel, intelligence and passion for the role of women in our society will be missed but never forgotten. today's author lisa napoli was raised in brooklyn new york early in the rise she covered the intersection of technology and culture at the new york times, on msnbc and for public radio's

marketplace. a chance to help start a radio station in the kingdom of bhutan led to her first book shangri-la: what i learned on my journey to the happiest kingdom on earth. the biography of 20th century philanthropist john kropp the man who made the mcdonald's fortune and thewomen who gave it all away . her third book is up all night, ted turner, cnn and the making of 24 hour news. i'm pleased and honored to welcome our three special guests, susan stamberg, nina totenberg and linda wertheimer. with cokie roberts, before founding mothers of the books title area susan stamberg who's been with the network since 1971 is the first woman to anchor a nightly news program and ehas won every major award in broadcasting. she's been inducted into the broadcasting hall of fame and radio hall of fame. beginning in 1972 she served

as cohost of npr's award-winning newsmagazine all things considered for 14 years. she then hosted weekend edition sunday and now reports on cultural issues from four morning edition and weekend edition saturday. she is well known for her conversational style, intelligence and neck for finding an interesting story. her thousands of interviews include conversations with billy crystal and luciano pavarotti. susan stamberg is the author of every night at five and talk and co-edited the wedding cake which grew out of a series of stories stamberg commission for weekend edition. professional recognitions include armstrong and dupont awards, and the incorporation of public broadcasting. the iowa state university's golden anniversary records award and the distinguished

broadcaster award for the american women in radio and television. nina totenberg is npr's legal affairs correspondent who reports regularly on all things considered, morning edition and weekend edition . totenberg coverage has won her widespread recognition . as newsweek when it, the mainstays of npr are morning edition and all things considered but the crcme de la crcme is nina totenberg. and the arts coverage nheard by totenberg on job clarence thomas's confirmation hearings the allegations by anita hill received the prestigious george foster award. totenberg was named broadcaster of the year and honored with a 1998 sharp award for excellence in broadcasting from the national press foundation. the first radio journalist to receive the award. she also received the american adjudicators society

for award honoring a career body of work in the field of journalism and the law. totenberg has been seven times with the american bar association and her continued excellence in legal reporting and received two dozen honorary degrees h. on a lighter note esquire magazine twice need for one of the women she loved. a contributor to tv she's written for major newspapers and periodicals on them the new york times, harvard law review, christian science monitor new york magazine and others. as npr's senior national correspondence linda wertheimer brings her unique expertise to bear on the days top news stories. and more than 40 years since she first joined npr he served in a variety of roles including were oin-house developing considered for 13 years. her 1974 to 1989, wertheimer provided coverage of national politics in congress, serving

as congressional onnational politicalcorrespondent . wertheimer covered for actions for npr and in 1976 became the first woman to anchor network coverage of a presidential nomination convention and of election night . wertheimer is the first person to broadcast live from within the senate chamber and her 37 day coverage of the senate debates won her a special dupont columbia university award. wertheimer has received numerous other journalism awards including awards from the corporation for public broadcasting were angry the iran-contraaffair . for american women in radio and tv for illegal abortion and from the american legion for coverage of the d30 debates. in 1995, 25 years in the life of the nation as her the national publicradio

celebrates npr's history . you for joining us today i. now let's hear from ourpanel . >> hello. you for joining us. back you for that wonderful, comprehensive introduction and these women need no introduction but we just got a terrific introduction for the archives, for the future generations and that's who i'd love to focus on today. i want to go back in time for people who may not know what it was like before these women were: and before npr was an iconic presence in the news media and before i do that i want to also say thank you to all archives because the without archives i would not have been able to write a . she said herself she couldn't have and our archives are invaluable .

you cannot find everything on the internet and you can't hear everything you need to know even on npr so you whose minds i invaded. this is an unauthorized book and i'm delighted and honored that you took the oitime to join me here tonight to launch this book with me for the upcoming anniversary of npr's 50th so thank you so much. >> it's so great. it's beyond my wildest imaginations we could have this conversation and the three of you keep talking g but i'll try to guide us through. even though linda came first technically in march 1971 i want to start with susan who coined the name founding mothers for anybody who doesn't like the word mothers, i've heard mothers is a loaded word in2021 . [laughter] my mother was

shocked when i told her that. but i will tell you what she really said t. nice working gal that she is but susan, you got into private radio before was public radio and before it was cool, before you all the cool . when we start with how diana mccalla who was that estimable force in her own right you a gay wan you before wan you was a major public radio powerhouse. >> diane was wonderful. she produced many pages of television programs for us at wbh. i got to know. [inaudible] moved to washington and she was instrumental in connecting with this new enterprise that

i mentioned earlier was the fact that i got -on public magazine. it was my first job in washington. my husband had a civil service job at the agency for international development. so i typed because there was this vast range of jobs available to women of my generation but that's what you did. you had children and you raised them but there wasn't much . and i called around people i knew and at that point, she said well, there's this new network. 12 stations, and they are just starting up . they're looking for a

producer for weekly public discussion shows and i said what does the producer need to do? she said the producer is basically knows the answers and ithought i can do that . so i called the director and re-briefed and i think what happened is. [inaudible] >> the stakes were low it's important to point out. it wasn't like today where you have thousands of people going to highfalutin schools for radio training four degrees in how to get a job at a place like npr or wamu

or at all. it was unusual that a woman got that job because the stakes were solow it was okay . >> i was the first person on that desk. not the first that npr and i eventually became a manager added but she was managing that. [laughter] [inaudible] i must say -- [inaudible] i never got a job that was foisted upon me by anybody but a man so i had to give that up. >> given that you had two main jobs, you've been, radio

stuck for you. it was something you love and you've grown up loving it. but you love working it. and let's before we move on to linda and nina talk about how it is that you decided you wanted to be on the radio that wonderful show last that you did really was a precursor to all things considered. >> was and again, it was heard by stations with the listenership of 200. but i walked in and i keremember walking into that station, wamu and immediately -- [inaudible] it's a powerhouse now but i walked in abut i thought i'm an english major.

[inaudible] i've never been good at. i had grown up with it and it was in my childhood. [inaudible] radio was so fascinating to me. no emotional to people and i liked it as a producer. [inaudible] and of course it was my duty -- [inaudible] [laughter] >> what happened because that would make it -- [inaudible] >>. >> i thought if it's up to me

i've got todo . but i was so nervous. what we did was dial 216-1212 . we wrote down whatever the weather was. and i was on the air with thatpiece of paper . i said that -- >> i couldn't even look out to see what kind of day itwas . >> i said -- [inaudible] i

thought i was so nervous that i forgot what i did the first time. this was february. [inaudible] and thankfully i filled the time slot. i learned two major lessons. one was to never go on the air on prepared and two was never lie to your audience. >> you talk about how working at startups is great for that exact reason is you can make all the mistakes at the beginning. and you make them in tandem with other people who are making this is helpful because you're all kind of training the path. you walked in in march 1971 this blank slate. and just to bump up against the anti-female sentiment

that you have dealt with up until that point, let's talk about briefly the cbs news radio experience that you had where you were basically told you couldn't go so far. you're lucky to get in the door in the firstplace . >> i was lucky. it was very clear that women were not to be on the air. there was a very good reporter working at the station and mary looked silly. she was a good reporter but she had to write herself out of the story. that was because she had some guy writing the story so that he didn't appear. i was so horrified when i discovered that because she was a real talented, very very pushy wrong minded woman . she still had to put up with that. and it was just impossible to

believe. i think one of the things that is hard to believe for young women today is out really awful it was. they can't believe that, they believe they are making a great sacrifice akwithout constantly getting hassled. they don't know from hassles, i've got to tell you. >> my last book was about cnn which was kind of like animal house in the early days. i don't think npr was quite like that . what you had to go through was all of you, was just shocking. like you say to young people today who don't understand the climate and is there a story you can tell us that makesthe finer points of that ? >> i finally fought my weight on the air and was able to go cover,

>> while we wait for linda to come back maybe we should jump to nina. there you are. >> did i go away? >> you worked with us for a second . >> i think the single stupidest thing that ever happened to me was i went to interview a senator who was an aging fellow. that's the chairman of an important committee. i went into his office and the secretary said our assistant secretary is going in with you and i said is that necessary because it was my experience that the press secretary would ulanswer the questions if youlet them . so i wasn't sure i wanted

that person to be there and theysaid well , okay. fine. i went in to interview and i said the only time i think i've been literally chased around the desk. one of the things that was difficult was that this man was in his 80s. he was captioning and it was very difficult. i kept trying to get around his side of the desk. but he was an important figure. you have in your book one of the senators from alabama who served and i referred to him as thecenter . >> we had a lot of little things like that.

they were terrible because we were all capable of stepping on anybody got intheir way . >> one of the things that i remember from that time was that it was a great advantage for us to have started at the same time asthe network started . cokie and i were there at the beginning and for us, we didn't have to face the problems that you would have to face if you went to a civilian time. the man from the new york times said to me i think. [inaudible] cokie had the same experience.

>> i had the same experience and later than wewould like to think . i had meetings in the early 1980s. >> wow. >> we had the hardware there at the beginning. we were not force two, nobody had to be fired that would be a congressional reporter, no one had to be shot arise to make clear who was the reporter on the supreme court. those sources were open and weleaned into them . there were other people doing that work but they didn't stick around. >> can you set the scene a little bit more about how free-form npr was because i really want people to come away with that, that didn't out of the gate become this major force that people trusted, listened to. you basically were all

inventing this form when you walked in the door. >> it was interesting, interesting for the people who are listening. they didn't quite know how interesting itwas to us . i was directing the program at npr, the first all things considered. what happened was that the show would start, you'd hear the newscast and i'd be sitting there saying where is the tape and there would be no take. >> nora adams who was with us for many years, noah adams said invariably in those days you could dpass on the first piece in the studio. that wasn't always true but you have no idea what the next piece would be. nobody knew.

nobody had any idea what was going on after that and all the pieces were supposed to fit into the right size, none of themwere the right size . we were literally being handed take without any sort of description to introduce it. what is this, who's on it? it was at the end of every day i was just a complete wreck . >> and it was really being produced or created by a very small number of people. it wasn't like now where you have this huge network. all the member stations that contributed pieces to. >> it was a small group of very young people. that was one of the problems. >> i don't know how many years it was but i remember

one day a piece fell out and jim russell who was the producer came to me and said i need you to -- [inaudible] i said i don't have one. he said i have a piece -- [inaudible] and that's what we did. >> nina, i want you to step back even further though it was when you stepped in r the door at npr bob hired you because you are known around town as a dog reporter you were not a video reporter. even though it was 1974 and 1975, there still were not aspiring to work in radio news . you were used the transworld and you did not have a radio

background . >> i didn't know how to use sound and susan stannard was the first ouperson who got me on air live on the radio. and but i had a huge portfolio. i had covered, i covered the house and senate judiciary committees. all scandals. some politics. and the supreme court and by the way, i think i handled -- [inaudible] but i did know this was not an era where we had digital and could bring in several programs away. we had one program that made it possible to do 1 million things all the time. and i was young and ambitious and i didn't have a husband. i had a boyfriend and i

didn't mind working until 10:00 u. >> did you all get the sense in the 70s that and this is free cokie and will move on to cokie. did you get the sense you are creating something big or were you just excited to have this platform to play with and to tell stories. did you have that sense of the bigger picture? >> i think it told us that you remembered better than us, we had 68 work news. i just read somewhere maybe there were 90. >>. [inaudible] most of them are working in the news.

>> they had big ambitions. it was a great piece in very difficult circumstances. it was fun. it was just such a wonderful challenge. many say it's horrible but it had an impact and we knew it. it was the radio version of the new york times, to be not good . >>. [inaudible] >> it's so interesting to imagine that you were making calls and booking people or reporting stories for a network when you call them the new york times, i used to work there. people answer your call, they call you right back npr you are in position when it would be a problem but back then it

wasn't a foregone conclusion. >> i would tell them i was from the radio and they would say was that . >>. [inaudible] we had 60 stations and i think -- [inaudible] >> who is -- [inaudible] >> that was the catch. >> the thing that i remember was we were terrified that we could not have any kind of audience and we kept finding -- [inaudible] [laughter] it was interesting, we find that people did.

we started out with very little faith that anyone would ever hear anything and we discover they were out there . one of the things that made npr, not right away was the cars. another thing that made a huge difference was they decided the children had to sit in the backseat in car seats latched to the seat. >> ..

>> they do say i know ifs anything is going horribly wrong, i know where you are, down at the end of the dial. i will hear those words. they don't yell at me. it would just explain what's going on. >> the tone was important from day one not to sound like commercial radio, not to screech or preach or voice from the mountain although you'll became the voices from the mountaintop which you got the last laugh because it gives to be a bunch of guys doingf that. what was also interesting to me was to learn about how influential you became almost initially in the middle of the country and none in the big cities because of that. >> they didn't have a lot of newspapers. they had local papers but they didn't have national newspapers.

it's hard for people to understand this, but the accessibility of reliable information was scary. if there was a place you could out on the radio and find that out, it was a big deal. >> you know, carlsbad new mexico home of the caveman. it was not possible to get up-to-date information anywhere but on the radio. the local newspaper was a fabulous newspaper with a local coverage but not for national coverage. the el paso times which my parents subscribed to in the hopes they would learn something, that paper, it was just not very good. i grew up reading the woman's

page, and some jumping from el paso said the family that owns the el paso times wouldn't let the women you are talking about, wouldn't let her edit the paper so she edited the women's page and was met at it than anything else in the paper. it really was. i was not of course particularly sophisticated about news but i did get that part. this woman was making much more sense that a lot of the other people in that paper. >> none of you wanted to do a traditional women's news. what you would of been relegated to if it hadn't been for npr, with exception, nina, you were able to buck that. >> started out my first newspaper job was -- [inaudible] in bostonn known historically as -- [inaudible]

weddings, not the vows but all the floral things and on the dress and allt that. i had no interest in that whatsoeverer and i decided the only way i was going to get any real expense was to do -- for free. i volunteered to do everything from school board meetings, and i regularly went out with a guy who was a photographer at night. he had all of the radios in the car, the fire department, the police department, the state troopers and you would go from one to another which was a lot of fun. i learned a lot that way. my next job i got to do more responsible things, but that was

my first paying job. >> if you are, if you're from an organization that does not have a lot of clout they have to do this in a different way. you have to do it personally. both of us had a lot of contact. we had many friends in the course of all the jobs we've had and we knew people, and we knew as nina says, people in low places. we knew all kinds of people. that we could go to to tell us what was happening. >> but the other thing was an advantage of coming up as woman in that era is that we would -- [inaudible] and they thought we reallyas wee very nice and we could understand what they were saying. we were asked, we would ask

questions and get the most amazing that of information i think we probably would have. when i was seeing a story about lobbying, for f example, one involving a new -- then northwest airlines, most of the members of the congress committee went oneo that trip, d there were only two people from the entire leadership that i could identify. one was the majority leader and he came up to talk to me and i said, you didn't go, and he said no. i said, why didn't you go? he said don't do those kinds of things. the next person was a republican for new hampshire and i said to him, why didn't you go on this trip? expecting some deep -- he said

the food gives me the trots. [laughing] >> one of the great things about covering the congress always has been that these guys love to talk. there are 535 of them so they don't get to talk, they don't get to all talk all the time. all of the big guys liked in your times all go for the germans committee. we would go in a little bit farther down the line at the committee making friends and learning things. >> linda, can you talk about did you and cokie t strategize or hw did you and cokie strategize when she came -- actually before we talk about how you strategized, let's introduce cokie by saying, having nina tell the story of her running her resume into the newsroom after retrieving it from steve, her husband, on the streets.

>> so steve roberts called me up. i didn't know her but he was just back from greece on assignment and judy miller who formerly worked at npr was working at the "new york times" that she said i think there might be an opening at npr. so it he called me up and he said bring me a resume and i met in outside -- my recollection is i met him down the street but he said he brought in, i don't know. i doubt it. i did know either of them, linda said to me i wonder if that is -- they had gone to college together. they were not close to me but they had been in college. >> acquainted. >> yes. i took it right away to jim russell, our boss, and i said you need more people and here's somebody, she's been at cbs and a father had been the democratic

whip and said you want to get some attention to her. he brought her in. cokie and i both came and with real -- thinking we would be hired shortly. while, in those days npr kept everybody like us on the string for months and months and months. >> my concern about cokie, and i did have a concern, was that she was, most of the things i had spent a couple of years learning, she knew when she was about seven. she knew how the congress work. she knew a tremendous him a people and the congress. she could identify the chairman

of committees and do what they did. there was just and lot that made me, i didn't feel that i did know as much as she did but i did feel she had better friends than i did. and i was concerned. but the thing that made the difference for her was that cokie never really had sort of a super competitive nature about her own colleagues. she was competitive about getting stories. she was competitive about lots of things but she didn't feel it was necessary to stiff arm your best friend and those you sat next to in the gallery in order to get what you wanted to go. so whenever we had a problem we worked it out. i think that's kind of a female thing to do. >> she had the i art of that.

i had a made two major contributions along this slippery as nina explained -- she came and had -- when they were living in greece. so when she came to us and we talked about the natural -- i guess encouraged in me just to be yourself and talk this way to a big radio audience, but cokie didn't do that as having broadcast from overseas. she shouted as if she was moving through this cable those under the waters, which is what she was doing. so when she i came here i said, you know, you don't have to shout. it's like the old days when you made a call to california and you in york and a shadow because

a phone for so long. it was no longer necessary and she could speak in a better come soft away, and she did. these were two major contributions i think you made. among many, among many. >> i do absolutely think that because npr was the very first place where i saw working out, other than the women's colleges that it went to, where i saw working out what we had always heard feminists say about women, that women were just not going to be fighting all the time. they were going to be trying to get where they're going together. that there was a different way of doing things. nina was one of the most aggressive reporters i've ever known, nina totenberg and cokie and i sator and little place in

the corner. there were four desks and we were in three of them, and every once in a while that would put some in the fourth went and they always laughed. left. they couldn't take it. we were always a joking, carrying on, talking to each other and they just felt this is -- i've got to get out of here. [inaudible] >> i think npr had a tremendous -- it was a fabulous thing to fine that you could actually operate in a collegial way and it would not, that you would not suffer from it. you would, in fact, everything would be much better for you in terms of the work as was in terms of your own -- >> we were all january in these

groups. we had the same kinds of problems. cokie would come in and say i don't understand why steve made me cry last night. and i would say, well, are you going away? of course that's it. or vice versa. it was just, it was a great benefit to have every place i was onlyfore npr i woman who sometimes occasionally one of two, somebody else being in the book section or something like that. it was a big difference. there was lots of other women who had experienced many of the same things i had experienced and was experiencing, and it was, the women at npr became my closest friends. >> you haven't mentioned a big

reason for all this, and this -- our first program director in the one who created, conceived of all these things that shape the present and what it should be. he hired talented women and give us things to do, important things to do and that helped a lot. >> if they had hired executive -- >> you got to be truthful about this. the reason we were so many women -- >> we were cheap. >> is we were cheap. [laughing] >> what did frank say? the third president npr, his line? get more bang for the buck with a broad. [laughing] >> to my facem he said it. [laughing]

>> nina, i want to -- >> the four of you not only found solace and unity from each other. you were helping women, create your own old girls network in d.c. again today a woman hearing this who's working will say of course, but that was not and, of course, when you were doing it back when you started banded together and having lunch and helping each other find jobs. >> that's true. >> you saw each other and recognized in each other that you needed to speedy we had to stick up for each other but we also need to stick up for younger women when there started to be, i'm embarrassed to say this, but sometimes a young woman will come too me who is, let's say ten or 15 years than i by the time were talking about in the early 2000, are much more even, and say so when so said i look nice in my

dress. and i say do you really want to die on this hill? you're going to have to fight of the fights. today i would never say that, but then that was then. if somebody came to me and said, he's touching me funny, we were on the warpath. then we were on the warhorse. that was worth dying for. >> fortunate for us we had stature in the company at that point. >> we could go higher. and spread the word. >> cokie created -- wherever she went, with whomever she went. she knew what l it was, she knew how to figure it out and she knew how to do it.

>> you all together became this force at work but you might find together. nina alluded to this. you all help each other personally. can you talk about, the fact you would have dinner with each other all the time and help each other with life tribulations. also carried it through obviously to work as well. can you talk a little bit about that? >> we could go to movies and they really do think cokie and nina and linda went more than ii did but we went regularly to the movies. eventually sometimes susan would even come with. >> after her husband died, they pulled her into that. >> they hadad a rule and after y first husband died also, they had what they called the widow rule, which is, i do remember

what, i think was called the widow rule. even for the week, if he's out of town, everybody else pays your share. you don'the pay. and then we were able to do that for susan, to, and for other people ass well. it was a very special and sometimes if we ever go back to the movies it will be special again. [laughing] >> i would pick another restaurant. [laughing] >> we were never allowed to make a suggestion. [laughing] >> cokie did really have a tremendous amount of influence on all of us c in terms of kindness and taking care of people. in fact, it's a standard joke among us and among her family, every once in a while people

will say what would cokie do? >> it was such a joke. >> and you would get very funny answers about what would cokie do and why. but it is true that she was, i don't know, maybe we should get in touch with a cardinal and suggest, you know that she should be -- >> she's the only person i know who could sit on a set at abc with a bunch of partners and start holding their seat to the fire about the sex scandals that have begun to unfold in the church -- cardinals. >> none of the guys would ask that and i remember her sitting there saying a mother wants to know, , what are you going to do about f this? >> i think we lost linda. she was fussing with the camera. >> that cat might have s come over. >> show me what to do. >> there she is.

>> the top of your computer you will see a bump and you -- >> or if you see the little zoom icon, just click on it. >> i'm trying. i was just trying to turn up the sound. >> may be some in the audience can help. [laughing]ar engineers. we are all very technically sophisticated. >> what would cokie think of zoom? the pandemic, the election. >> she missed it. >> she was very relentless and what a quick. much like our energizer bunny here. >> nina, when you think, i've heard you say your father lived to triple digits or never going

to stop working. you really can't imagine -- >> he was a teacher in the last probably more of a teacher and less 15 years. although he performed into his '90s. i do not consider myself a great teacher. it doesn't interest me terribly person-to-person, not person to class or even a small class even. i don't imagine i could do it until i'm 101. i've got this microphone right here, i would be holding it and say -- [laughing] but but i don't think i couldo that. >> i'm counting on you, nina. >> i could do guest appearances i think but but i couldn't e

kind of schedule that, increasingly news organizations have younger people and younger people and it never ever stops. there so many platforms, social media, digital, radio, yes, and so and so would on tonight on cnn or msnbc or even fox. i will do them if i possibly can. it's good for a reported to be seen and heard. you don't condemn people. but as you get older having to learn all of the stuff, and the pandemic has helped a lot, but you get more tired. it's where he so i'm not going anywhere anytime soon, but i am a realist. you can't keep working at this pace for ever. >> but there's very useful

things to say. sorry. >> sorry, no, i can't cover the story? >> no. [laughing] >> you just did. >> we've got five minutes left, i won't even ask nina about her ever writing a book, . the other women had many books that nina come you're not going to write about because you are too busy on deadline. >> i just didn't do it. >> how can we wrap for the future generations who will see this archival tape at this moment in time that npr is turning 50 where things are better for women, , they are not perfect, what would you say? what would be your final words? >> we are seeing some things happening like the podcasts and

all kinds of strange new things that i don't know, you know, i mean, i am not doing any of that stuff but i'm willing to admit it might be worth doing. there will be things that will open up for all people and young women will come if they've got the stuff. they make it into it and do it. i think it may be something different than what we did. i defended by all these things behind the, all the books. it's a whole new world out there now in that area. i think thater they will have challenges that we can't imagin imagine. >> i think it's a wonderful, wonderful book. i think it's t exciting and it's fun. it's hard work. i have a niece who won a pulitzer this year. it was in the first radio

bulletin and she started wondering about what i do for a living. it looked like it was so much fun when shee was about eight years old. so itt is very hard work, but if you can do it you're going to have a u ball. >> i agree. i can't think of a better way to understand and see the world and feel like you're making a difference difference, making things clear for other people. i have story about my granddaughter who tomorrow turn 15. i didn't ask her what she wanted to do when she grows up, but she has told me she's going to law school and then she's going to be on the supreme court. i said, that's wonderful. i think you know the supreme court is just a handful of them, the men's most days and they are reading and

writing, it's only work. why don't you think about being president rex because that way you have many more people to talk to, you're a sociable girl, you get along like to be with people. and she said, okay, i'll think about that. [laughing] that's her future. [laughing] >> well, i do think that it's a fabulous thing not to do the same thing every day, and have to always learn aboutut what its you're going to do that day that you don't know. i mean, it keeps your brain exercised and i think that is a wonderful thing. >> well, i have had a wonderful year duringng the pandemic which was a horrible year investigating your lives and stitching together the story of

public radio set against the backdrop of 70 images and your lies so spent in honor and a privilege and if so grateful to the archives for hosting us this evening, and again grateful to you for your time and graciousness in joining me tonight. historyth really matters and archives matter a lot so thank you soo much. >> you wrote this book in the year or less? >> something like a year-ish. >> i can't imagine writing a book that fast. >> it's a terrific book. >> it is a good book, it is, very compelling. >> thank a you. it's certainly not comprehensive. i hope there are many more to come but it was exciting to stitch it altogether and hope people will read it and hopefully will all meet up at the archives sometime. [inaudible] >> yes, yes. thank you all so much.

>> thank you, lisa. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> booktv on c-span2 has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. tonight at 9 p.m. eastern on "after words" in her latest book process, massachusetts democratic senator elizabeth warren talks about persistence

in her life as a professor, a u.s. senator, and as a democratic presidential candidate. she's anything by "washington post" white house reporter tonight at 10 p.m. eastern the development of precision bombing during world war ii is is the subject of best-selling author malcolm gladwell was new book obama mafia, a dream, a temptation, and the longest night of the second world war. watch tv tonight on c-span2. >> is: editor of a most, rather is editor of the most interesting problem, what darwin's the sin of man got right and wrong about human evolution. he is part of the research team that discovered and describes to that ancient members of the human family tree, oscar and -- he studied