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relations during the korean war including general douglas macarthur's removal of command by harry truman. watched american history tv every weekend and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> hello everyone, good evening. on behalf i want to thank you for joining us for very special virtual event with brian burrell, chris tomlinson, and jason sanford and celebration of the new book forget the alamo the rise and fall of the american men. actually hope for a signing we will be offering today's conversation will be moderated reminder if you have not purchased your copy when it

purchased ligature supporting or storing staff barely sharing links via chat tonight our guests will be joining us up on the screen to talk about the book and if there are some questions from the audience be thinking about the questions you may want to ask our authors tonight. if you're wondering where to submit them, go although to the right there's two little bubbles is a q and a. want to to submit them there make sure we get them answered. with that, let's read some bios and get this conversation started. the author including the big rich and public enemies. and co-author of bestsellers barbarians at the gate. chris tomlinson is a columnist for the chronicle and the

author of near times the best-selling tomlinson tales family history in texas in 1995 to 2007. he reported from jason stanford as a writer and former communications director of austin. he's a political consultant than we have our moderator for tonight's the editor-in-chief, served as editor-in-chief of the texas observer. from the editor of texas monthly westside she also wrote the book how to be a texan, and without it one should help me welcome thank you all for being here.

>> thank you for having us the book people really appreciated for congratulations to the writer were excited to be here in conversation with you all. and to be talk about your new book, forget the alamo. >> thank you. >> thanks for joining us. >> excited to be here. well, my first question is you wrote this book it is a wonderful so congratulations again. my first question is, the alamo as you noted many, many times throughout the book is a pretty fraught topic in texas history. it is been written about basically within weeks of when it occurred in various accounts scholarly articles and discussion about how accurately it was written, why write about the alamo? why bust this myth why do it now? i'm so curious to hear from each of you what the impetus

was behind taking on such a giant texas history? >> you know, i first got interested in the alamo writing a column for the express news. it was regarding the brand of texas. what is texas in brand and what is san antonio brand question always been the alamo city. when i dug a little deeper i realized they were about to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to revitalize the alamo. there's this whole debate about what story that revitalized, renovated, with the new museum. what story was it going to tell? it seemed to bring this whole thing back to the surface again. i wrote in a column a fight at the alamo had more to do slavery and liberty. that triggered a firestorm and

a big conversation. >> richard brought the idea to us went to breakfast south congress one monday morning. jason and i, at some point he starts going on about all that you don't know about the alamo. all that you think you know is wrong. and especially what a burden the anglo dominant narrative has been. and at some point we kind of jerked up and said what do you say? after about another hour he does nothing but his homework i said somebody ought to write a book about that. until years later we have. >> initially i thought it would be a fun thing to do with my friends. but as we got into it i realize it's a little exciting shakespeare. you realize how much we get from the alamo here in texas in politics and how much it

informs our politics these days. it was stunning to me something i regarded as a provincial tourist interest is so foundational to our life these days. that's really what kept me going to the book. >> sorry i lost my screen this is where we all you everyone understands by now. i want to zero in on something you said, bryant, the latino experience and how that is reflected kind of in the history as someone who is latina whose mexican/american born and raised here in texas. has read some of the scholarship you write in your book about the historian had different glasses on the narrative but we are typically hearing of the versions and i think you'll call it the

heroic anglo narrative the texas history. i just have to ask is this something you all thought about, you are three anglo men is a something that crossed your mind as writers? i should say people tell the story they feel compelled to tell. certainly a story that's been told the state over. i'm just curious to know your thoughts are three anglo writers writing about this particular topic from that vantage rich. >> our first thought was this really addresses what you asked early about why now, latinos are poised to become a majority in the state. we argue there's never been a better time really for there to be a conversation about historic alamo. the real alamo as opposed to the alamo of our dreams. it's also a time for the countries undergo the sweeping reassessment of george floyd.

texas history is largely got in the past. that certainly surprising for it i say going in i had absolutely had no understanding of the latino experience with the alamo and it dawned on us during the research this is a big issue. we were very, very sensitive we are probably not the first people you would ask to bring this into mainstream discourse. we tried to do it by respect in doing talking too as many latino thinkers as we could. basically trying to convey their stories. i trust for those reading the book they will feel we have done it responsibly. >> my background is as a foreign correspondent. i covered the genocide in rwanda and south africa and i

learned that everyone needs to be part of these conversations of looking at the past and talking about the myths, the lies, the disinformation, propaganda whatever word you want to use. we've all got to participate in this reckoning together. my ancestors go back in texas to slave days my first book was about my family's slaveholding history. and i just think as an anglo i am as responsible and compelled to investigate these stories as a journalist and as an investigative journalist. and as a beneficiary of the white supremacy of the past. as brian said we strive very hard and very deeply too make

sure we gave voice to those who are not like us. >> the one thing i would like to add to that it should not be up to, it never is up to communities of color to convince white people that racism exists. it ultimately is something they need to hear from white people. we cannot put it on communities of color to spread the stories. they have been spreading these stories for a long time, for generations. anglo texas has filtered it out. >> has shouted them down in some occasions for. >> to the extent that not ignore them. we are hoping we can elevate their voices and get them heard. >> too that end, a big part of the opening salvo of your book is something you mentioned earlier, chris, how much slavery was a part of the alamo and preceded the events

was historically relevant to this moment. i thought maybe you could talk a little bit about people who might not know about that particular piece of history to explain it and encapsulated in nutshell if you can. >> andrew target wrote a book the empire a few years ago where he dug into the economic history as well as the political history of texas. he rightly observed and points out, we are in debt to him the only reason anglos were coming to texas was to grow cotton. the only way to grow cotton at the time was around slavery. and so from the very earliest letters, the goal was to turn texas into an empire slavery to use a phrase coined by randolph campbell.

>> when we started this, i was 57 -- 58. this was all new to me. i was thinking this was some type of woke, but when you get into austin's c realize the sheer amount of mind is space this man over ten, 12, 15 years put into continuing slavery in texas keeping in mind the mexican government, the texans for they founded in 1835. >> just want to add one last note, we are not saying i don't anyone to take from this slavery was the only cause of the battle of the alamo and everything that led to it and the revolts. neither can you say is unrelated. certainly a cause to brought

them here and brought them to the alamo. >> one other piece of history you talk about jason is i think a lot of it was about mexican politics. in the sight of federalism and what role santa answer played in that. i'm just for the history geeks among us who are curious about how, this is zero politics involved in some of this. what it meant for mexico to hold onto their territory which is 2000 miles away from mexico. city. the trigger here is there are a number of trickle triggers in the last minute was clearly but you have to understand

what that is. for the texas colonist federalism meant their state governments could essentially vote their own flaws including support of slavery. they began fighting for slavery down at mexico city he ended up fighting in vain to keep it going. so federalism really became a code word for slavery. without federalism they were convince central government would do away with slavery once and for all. and they had repeatedly tried to do. >> i would point out, this is where they were actually the leaders in fighting to maintain federalism. once again, they wanted to put together a militia to protect federalism and central government weeks before the

anglo texans began to get excited about it. and in many ways when the taxi and decided to take up arms against santa ana in the name of liberty, they co-opted the desire to remain part of mexico, to return to a federalist mexico. the anglos brought in the idea of what we are just going to steal a third of mexico and hopefully join the united states with andrew jackson would love to have us. and so that is the politics that were going on. it was a coat option of this idea that we're fighting for federalism. it was really a fight for permission. >> and greatly propaganda really start there and continues going on 200 years. the dastardly santa and the

their fighting for their freedom, they had their freedom they had more freedom and mexico was 30 years of research has shown. this was not a white community and mexico that was being beaten down or anything. they had gotten everything they wanted and more. and in the end what they wanted was to have their own militant slave nation which is what they got for ten years. >> let's talk a little bit about some of that propaganda and how early on it started. hope might be, i don't know if there was one person, who was most responsible for what a lot of people imagine the alamo to be. it starts as soon as the accounts we got from susan dickinson i'm blinken on a first name coming out in her having an evolving account of what happened when she left

the alamo and then joe the slave on the premises having an evolving account this all sorts of various different stories coming out about what really happened there. and how much could we ever really know. in addition to that the story evolved the book i read sure a lot of people have is considered the gold standard for some folks. talk about the propaganda the evolution of the propaganda. that does not always have to be a bad word, right?

it's getting washington on the grasses were william travis' famous letters of begging for reinforcements, promising victory or death. and as soon as houston found out the alamo had fallen, within 72 hours he propagated this myth the defenders of the alamo or equivalent, you see that exact phrase used in the texas propaganda sheet within 72 hours of finding out. next thing you know santa ana was on schedule. and then we see houston's men sit down and sit down with joe

and then all of the accounts comes through houston's men what the battle was like and in those very early days they were fleeing back to the united states houston was using this idea in a fight to the death for the good of all to rally the troops to slow down and create a battle cry. at the same time the taxi and agents in the united states were pushing this narrative, this mongrel race of mexicans killing good white men in every good white man in the united states would get on their horse and go to texas they would have a chance to prove themselves in battle.

as the great-grandfather sit in the american revolution. it was a race war and it was a propaganda stunt to try to correct for what was a huge mistake. that narrative is been picked up by several generations of anglo rioters. novelists, up until the first in the late 1800s began writing about this. just as we are seeing today or the state government is trying to eliminate any discussion of the true causes of the revolution. talk about slavery. that exact type of stuff is being floated in 1898. to make sure only one version is taught at colleges and schools. dominated the teaching effect and that's exactly what

happened. this kind of 19th century anglo viewpoint that is predominantly before world war i is closing in and still being taught to kids in the 40s, the 50s, and the 60s. it's really nothing i don't get ahead of ourselves when a new generation of latino speakers, writers and professors began quoting some alternate ideas that i believe is a true history of the alamo, the historical history begins to come forth in the name of provisions, which is the wrong word to collect. it is a truer version of what actually happened. that gives you something of why they were frozen or had been frozen for this moment in some way for so long. >> it started out as a form of

propaganda. but also the domain of hobbyists that real historians did not mess with the alamo in the texas revolt for a long time. did not have any relief scholarship in history of this. it was amateurish for a long time. isn't it about time somebody did a scholarly analysis what actually happened at the alamo? that happened last 30 or 40 years of we stand on the shoulders of those have done so much of the real hard work. >> some of it is been looked down upon. you got to be seen as parochial and has been so dominated by hobbyists and pulp fiction. going into do it as

professionals in the 70s, 80s and 90s was not exactly a tenure-track move. >> if you questions coming and said thank you folks keep asking them for sure. i will go ahead and start asking. this is a question i am curious about two. it is a very hot topic and evokes strong feelings from folks. how concerned are you about having written about this and taken on the most sacred cows which is really saying something because we love cows in general. and to that point i have to say also as someone, the woman, woman of color i'm little frightened again stage with you all but here i am. [laughter] but seriously does invoke a very strong emotions in people. people have very strong feelings about this. i am hoping no one is fleeing for their safety. there is something, stepping

out on a limb here and how you feel about that. >> i will start read one of my motivations was to get in on all the hate mail action chris was getting in is called prayer there's nothing so much a writer likes his as much as some good hate mail. after doing research on this and seeing the militia their armed militia guarding the senate down there. there are some people who, the people on the land office and they went down to san antonio texas rangers guarding them because of threats from the militia. there are some serious concerns here. which is what we all exist in a pure virtual plan or not it often so that's it. >> chris has been in more wars than you and i could probably even name. i've been in my share of nasty skirmishes over a few years.

you know, it is one of the things you really can't worry too much it is what it is. >> i had an excuse to improve my security system at a few cameras. [laughter] >> another question dropped in, do you think there's a risk your books important discussion on how slavery was the cornerstone of the texas revolution will be overshadowed about whether they bought jim buie's knife? to add onto that, there is this fascination and almost distraction the pop-culture aspect of it provides entrée to people say oh the alamo the fascination of this musician, i will look into it and learn more and allow for more edification on the subject. >> we got into this it was

just such a target rich environment. yes, there are questions about why their questions about slavery all that to the present time. we stumbled into this discovery frankly that we never expected. essentially a large segment i will say conservatively of the new museum is, the best you can say the it is weak. the directing much of it is fake. i do not want to say there's something us but for everybody. we had not even gotten to the myths about the battle itself. the fact travis tried to surrender pretty fact that nobody there had anything like a choice. the fact many didn't fight to the death. they fled into the countryside where they were run down and killed by the mexican calvary.

are we putting too much out there? maybe but that's the fun of doing it. >> i really thought the collins stuff would dry up a lot of the public discussion. is the cover story of texas monthly. everyone is talked about the reevaluation of the myth of the alamo through the slavery it lends. it's interesting we put them both out there and we expected, fully expected have a huge political discussion about whether or not the taxpayers should be spending hundreds of millions of dollars for a museum fulfill collins fake stafford i'm sorry thrill stuff is just not one thanks it is. i kind of discount of the fact live in a political culture right now it is not fact-based. it is tradition traditional pride what you feel a phil : step as it depends on what perspective you're looking at it from prater really did not start a conversation.

someday, someone's going to ask whether not they should spend money to put baby crockett fake bag in a four story, but right now most people are really interested in examining our foundational myths in this country. wrinkly little encouraged by that. >> there is a debate for every generation. i think it's one of the through lines of the book. every generation has debated what really happened? what did it mean? what is real and what is not. the fact we are still having that conversation over artifacts that could end up in a museum, could be paid for by taxpayer money is just tells us how much we little we really know. i'm hoping people will come for whatever reason and have a

multigenerational ride. >> one of the questions here is talking about the degrees which our current political atmosphere, is there anything to add to that question that you want to talk about here? >> we do not realize governor abbott was going to be promoting our book. that was really a surprise. when we started this and chris got us started got it rolling two years ago nobody was talking about texas during the alamo. in just two years later working on this book with our heads down, doing our thing and now suddenly awakened in june 2021 in the "new york times", the "washington post", national geographic. everyone and their mother suddenly writing about this. and here's to good timing. >> you mentioned governor

abbott. he recently bragged about signing legislation curing the 1836 project which is the republicans answer to the 1619 project. and to promote texas >> education they are going to do the most ridiculous thing that ever heard in the entire history of the world for the one to print up pamphlets promoting patriotism and get them out to people in the drivers license. it is just kind of posy bs that is in response to the reevaluation of our foundational myth. there are so many examples to keep coming up the most prominent one a ball is the embrace of the gun rights movement of the come and take it flag from gonzalez putting in ar-15 where the canon was. the symbolism and the constructs inform so much of conservative thought these days it's almost atmospheric. it is pervasive. >> let's call it what it is.

these myths were created to promote wide supremacy government, justify jim crow laws, justify the massacre along the border. there have been so many horrendous things done to people of color in the name of exceptionalism. and at its core, exceptionalism is about the alamo and the struggle to maintain slavery. and as an older generation that grew up on the walt disney mini series about davy crockett who considered john wayne, the alamo to be a documentary, these were all reinforcing the idea of white supremacy. now we are saying that is all a lie. that makes a lot of people uncomfortable. when i wrote about legends

about my family's slaveholding help my family supposedly treated slaves well, which we now know, you can't do that. so yes% the texas population. >> you talk a lot about reimagining our history, bringing it into a fuller account of what we know to be our history, not just in texas but in america and beyond. we talk about the foundational myth being upended about talking at the slavery aspect of things. so much of this is also the individual characters. davy crockett it's about travis it's about sam houston, it's about santa ana, a lot of forgotten characters is there

one of these any of the people i named her anybody else you think is the misunderstood or the character we are most wrong about? and who is that and in what way? i would say for instance one of the things that struck me in the book is this whole notion of santa ana being tainted as a villainous is he one of the more misunderstood characters out of this story? are there other ones who are more so misunderstood? or that we were wrong about? >> andrea i think we each have our favorites. mine is clearly jim buie who is always been painted as this steve mclean debilitated guy fighting to the death. jim buie was a crook, he was a swindler who fled texas in the face of two federal

investigations into lands that he did in arkansas and especially in louisiana. for that he is not only a slave trader he was a traitor of illegal slaves brought in from cuba when it was illegal as was his revolutionary colleague he was eight freeloader, he was a corrupt land speculator, he was about as far from steve mclean as you get. he has always been my favorite. a lot of people like to go on about travis and i'll just leave that hanging there. [laughter] you gotta read the book. >> the guy i kind of a really had gotten locked onto the son of the renegade's banish priest a child soldier wounded at the age of eight goes to

evacuate to escape the spanish inquisition when he was 13. then returns home to join the revolution against spain and becomes a colonel in the mexican army. he goes into texas as a spy but speaks perfect english. gathers all of this intelligence, comes back and said the americans are going to try to sell texas when you do something about it. he is reporting to santa ana he becomes santa ana's speech writer. he joins with abolitionists in baltimore and has freed slaves to texas once they push all the anglos out. so free black people can have a colony inside of the whites from alabama. this is a guy i've never heard of before he started working on this book. he has such an amazing life including coming around too finally try to overthrow it

santa ana in the end. it is just amazing. >> i'm not sure he was misunderstood he's horribly underappreciated. there is a town named after him. but once again if you are pitching this story, you are pitching the battle of alamo to hollywood without the historical weight of it, you try to pitch travis and you pitch buie and all of these guys and crockett, you can see a modern movie producer saying tell me about that guy. snuck out warned houston became mayor of furniture store run out of texas and then he was occupying san antonio. that's an incredible story. retelling the story right he would beat the most widely known person in texas.

not jim buie. >> the gain is really the great tragic hero. if you do not know the story it's worth picking up a book to read it. >> you talked about next acts series with a question here about your analysis what you think is been the most accurate and i will add it to another question with the book that has the most integrity. most accurate, most integrity and put my only block on there. and the one think no one's reading this book everyone should be reading this book have a fuller understanding. >> i'll leave the last question to you all. the intersection of the best fictional account of the alamo, most accurate account of the alamo it is respected

by everyone, vigorously researched praise when the first books i read because he is a buddy. and then you do all this research on the alamo you realize how much he got right where historians got it wrong, unbelievable kerri took with the fact even though it is fiction, made up a couple of characters, broke my heart they were not real. he just did a really good and responsible job. so much so that when ron howard wanted to make the 2004 movie he eventually dropped out of about the alamo, who's in a room for the whole bunch of historians on accuracy. eventually stayed on as a consultant to the new movie is eventually made that is by far the most accurate movie about the alamo. it is also the least fun. >> second at the 2004 alamo, not a great movie, terrifically accurate. best book you've never ready should pick up if you like ours we mentioned it earlier a book called seeds of empire

which is academic and economic analysis of early taxes from whose conclusions and research are early chapters are dependent it is a great book. by and large if it is written before 1970 you can probably pass. >> with one exception jim layered viva max. i would recommend the memoir which is written. it was elegant it is a detailed, it tells you a story of the battle of the alamo and the battle for texas independence. it is a voice you don't hear anywhere right now. and there's an annotated version out that is wonderful.

it is just a great book. so i want to talk a little bit about, this goes one of the questions i had, broadly can you talk a little bit about the women in the alamo? i'm going to be here beating the drug for who gives a whole accounts of the characters you might not hear about. not just ask the alamo i will be now the daughters of the public of texas could you talk a little bit about the importance of women propagating the mill therapy and income method protecting the alamo one of my favorite

characters she's a granddaughter one of the great politicians the first republic of texas set aside and betrayed and he resigned in protest. was a schoolteacher and single, catholic, woman, her father was sick her brothers seated her financial help. she was dedicated to the story of texas and the story of her father. she started the movement to try to save it was connected to the alamo chapel.

she's the wealthiest woman in texas, clara driscoll. the granddaughter, the heiress of a huge oil and railroad. but she liked pretty things and pretty places. the two found this comment because to save the alamo and build a park in the middle of san antonio. once i got there hands on the property there focused on saving clear one to save it down. it started one of the great feuds of texas history that went on for years. people in austin know clara from the driscoll villa which is where the contemporary museum is.

their story is fascinating. and of course claire goes on to become not only tear down but she also becomes one of the most important women in the democratic party and the whole united states in the 1930s and 40s. she was critical to the victory. there were these great strong powerful women. they were not always on the right side. and neither villain nor hero. the struggle between adina and clara which is 40 years pre-thanks what's going on right now. but dena really represented trying to tell the whole story. clara much wealthier, much

more powerful, well-connected really has if you look at the storage unit telling is the heroic in there. the ultimate victory really consolidated the narrative as the narrative of the alamo. the un- challenged narrative by and large all the people we can blame for the history that were taught today there's very few people who were responsible for this. lex and of course they were given control and management over the alamo. the church in the state property, the plaza outside which is still part of the alamo city property but the daughters of the republic of texas heritage organization was running for better part of the century.

they were about budgeting. they were extraordinarily good at being hostile enough that no one in san antonio can mess with them for a long time. it was not until three women brought them down, mostly from the inside print my favorite person i talked to in researching this book, who is a daughter. she was smart enough to understand engineering reports and budgets. she was a great researchers. she started to feeding a lot of research to the express news and the daughters were terrified. and then she started sending information to the attorney general who then was greg abbott he started the investigation. and to kerry's office. everyone started to get really worried about the structure. and the structural integrity of the alamo church. that is ultimately what force lawmakers to take control

alamo away and give it to the general land and they oversaw the daughters management and eventually they took it away. but the person who push the legislation to do that get the only stories it's interesting. in your opinion thinking historically how much trouble is a society in when policy as opposed to simply influencing policy. that seems a little bit that

we talked about in regards the where we are now. >> i am not convinced that influencing policy they really are the policy used to be marked mixed up and form coalitions. due to the divisions. >> i take history the lessons they needed. they are at a place now where we need different lessons from our past that what these myths and legends are teaching us. there will always be a certain

competition as a population, you want us to hold onto the past and preserve those stories. two of volvo we need to involve the stories that we tell yourselves. >> that is great. i have a couple more questions of course anyone else in the audience has questions there's a lot going on curious to know how much did you research about, learn about or decide to include about native american history and how that weighs into this. this entire books written on there's a part of the myth taking to in ways that have the same -- met cassie many of these waves as mexicans ours.

i was just curious is that something that came up what to include, what not to include, how much to talk about the need of the american experience and how much that was a piece of the history in general. >> to say the book was initially 30% longer than it is now. and we did a lot of cutting. i think we tried to still talk about why the native americans come on cameron not going to get that name right. he talks a lot about how they had 1500 of their ancestors come to the street in front of the alamo. how that needs to be respected by the state and by everyone involved and renovating the process. we also know this was key, the

native american population were critical to the early formation of the mission. the spanish called the comanche area had this really advanced political culture how is how the go to we could not get into all that we were focused on the lives that came out of 13 days making 36. i hope the one thing we will do moving forward is remember there is a 300 year history. there's more to it than just those 13 days in 1836. >> great. it's interesting to talk about working together. one of my other questions is,

i have to ask a process question what is it like to write a book with three people? that seems like a lot of arguments or possibly? yes this, know that, i like the sentence why did you cut it? >> that never came up. [laughter] we got along famously. >> we basically we sat in the pool and dictated into tape recorders and laughed at each other's lines, each was better than the last. we have become very comfortable with physical intimacy with each other. one of the great things, we have all written, usually it's going into a room inside your head for long time in living with that. in this one the great benefit to that is your talk with two smart people you respect.

you get really challenging conversations about the ideas. this book, note one of us could have written this book we were challenging each other's ideas all of it down the line. the thinking became a lot more involved than it otherwise would have been. >> absolute. lex there is hugging under definitely hugging. >> will good. we are all at a place we can finally do that again. it's hard to imagine a snappier title than the one you all came up with. once you thought of energy seriously consider any other assist spoiler alert there is a nether but there is a very similar title you all found am i right? >> there is a fantasy novel forget the alamo, there is a mexican published history from

1964 which was a very similar name part of toy the names of the book, before in of of the work that name of the book came at the end or right slapped my hand on the table set and i have got the damn name. i will take credit for that cyber. >> we slumped our shoulders and rose we had to do this you cannot have a good idea the perfect title and not do it. >> i have been at two different dinners with people were i thought it was okay to talk about the book and to say what it was going to be for two different diners slumped off their chair and onto the floor and said you can't say that. i knew we were onto something. >> he gets all the credit we had the title before and we outline the book. >> and then my last question

there's one more, but as a moderator i feel like i can pull the designation of asking the last question. what has been the most surprising thing that you have learned aside from brian and jason here understating the alamosa possibly wrong. it's something that really when you are reporting you felt like was -- is there such a thing to a scoop from a story from 1836? what is been the most surprising thing you have learned? >> our member brian and i were having breakfast with andre who was a professor at acc. he is one of the fathers of mexican-american studies they did not teach it in texas at all until he started doing it. this is just an example of how privileged and clueless brian and i were.

they don't know mexican-american until they teach seventh grade history per their good guys and bad guys long time there people around texas are pointing to classrooms and he is the one, his grandfather killed davy crockett. and texas history has for generations served as a really racial sorting mechanism. it teaches a lot of these kids they are the bad guy. and in retrospect it's obvious. a lot of people know this for long time for it i didn't and i was shocked. >> my favorite factoid in the book and it is only the footnote it's a story of a little-known british singer named davy jones. when you found out there's another famous singer davy jones and the monkeys, took his stage name from that of a hero of the alamo thus creating david bowie.

>> i am just a geek. i have never seen santa and is a letter he wrote just before crossing the rio grande him going to take it back and free those slaves as wretched souls who are in chains. i never knew that existed two days later she crossed into texas. >> wonderful. other any parting shots from all three customers anything you want to add? people look at this may be considering purchasing we tried to not bang the reader of the head by how wrong all this is. just to be open to the idea their other ideas about what

happened. especially communities of color have points on texas history and the alamo i know we opened my mind we try to put this out there in the public conversation in a non- preachy way if you will. >> i would say this is a funny book we need to have one voice and brian took the lead in writing it. it is a light touch, it is funny it is not a boring history book like you are used to. i think you'll see some of the reviews are knocking us for that. i think it is really the only way to have this conversation is with a light touch and to make it fun.

and i like to think we did that. >> i am proud that this book goes from the beginning to the end. usually they stop somewhere. this shows the continuum of history and how we are still fighting the same dang fight today. i'm proud we all pull that off. >> good luck. it seems like you've all become characters in your own book when that will be written on let's be clear this is not finished it will be written again. so congratulations to all of you and thank you to book people and thank you to everyone who came. i really appreciate everybody's time tonight. >> thank you for being a great moderator. >> thank you. [applause] >> are really went to echo that, thank you to all of you for joining us tonight virtually. and everyone watching from home, thank you for being in the crowd and sharing your questions with us.

please buy the book please support our authors and please support her independent bookstores. as i mentioned at the beginning we have signed copies which makes it all the more special. make sure to grab your copy we have a curbside we are open to the public. without thank you all only hope to see you at the next one. >> this week we're looking back to the state in history. : : :

ended on july 27 covid 1953. >> today i'm going to talk about the korean war. >> were going to cyprus civil military relations for the last time i met we talked about the cold war and the development of containment. korea was an unusual situation in that it had been a colony in japan since 1910. during the second world war there was fighting in korea, the u.s., and the soviet union joined the occupied korea. they agreed to divide korea. not northern korea what we call today to north korea was a very much