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tv   Douglas Winiarksi Darkness Falls on the Land of Light  CSPAN  August 28, 2021 4:00pm-4:56pm EDT

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series. i wish i could be with you in perch and. issue conceived from my background i am suffering from an archive deprivation send of the last year. let's get right to it. i've got a tail just been through this afternoon. corky and occasionally troubling story about the history of 18th century new england. as with all great melodramas this all begins on a dark and stormy night. march 15, 1750. rain and snow spoke fell in alternating currents in connecticut. earlier that day a young woman named mary smith who is not related had served pancakes with arsenic. immediately annabelle felt violently ill and died the next day. it appeared to be foul play.
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who is remanded to the county jail to await trial for murder. indicted on the same day, hello accomplish was none other than john smith the head father of their four children. surviving court records there are clues to the motive that led john smith to conspire with mary smith to murder his wife. bacchus the prominent leader of the baptist movement provided additional details he published nearly two decades later. the facts of this sordid affair john smith was a member of paine's separate congregational church in canterbury. after a while he declared it was revealed to him by god that mary smith was to be his wife. his question upon it said the wife you did not have but divine providence would take
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her out of the way. this appeared so dark the church called him to counsel and the pastor meets with him in a church he carried murder in its nature. smith did not hear the church and was cast out, excommunicated. two and a half a carried bought some rats poison and poisoned his wife. the murder of smith was a crime of passion. if it's reported to be trusted as kind of a religious passion. they called the first great awakening. think of this fascinating case of death by pancakes early american evangelicalism. i will situate the murder of
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hannah bill smith through a series of adultery scandals including the controversial practice internal marriage for marriage in the new covenant. more recent historians spiritual were free. the emotional madness they're caught up in that revival of the 17 authorities to rise to the conclusion god has commanded them put away their lives. much of my topic will focus on a particular group of early american protestants. most scholars take for granted they are the modern evangelical unit. the term evangelical for reasons that should become clear at the conclusion. i'm referring to like john and mary smith as radical
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evangelicals, most common in the 18th century the people called new lights. it's well known but few scholars recognize the anti- quaker of the 17th century re- emerged during the new england revival of the 1740s to discredit specifically those men and women who has succeeded in breaking away from the congregational churches of the standing order. by the turn of the 19th century, only zealous anglo-american protestants claimed the monitor self identified was found in places like nova scotia, and the front tier. they were by and large restless spiritual travelers in search of new spiritual homes. the free seekers of the early republic. the basis of my talk is this. people called new lights experience problems involving
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mind and body with greater intensity than other kinds of protestants. many scholars have argued the transformative experiences have a sense of servitude about the state of their elected born-again souls. it also makes them acutely aware of the persistent failings of their earthly bodies. sexuality, marriage and family structures, thus became issues of deep and abiding concern for many women like john and mary smith of canterbury, connecticut. solving the conundrum of their bodies became a lifelong obsession. with outward from the immediate context of the smith murder trial in new england two parallel examples from elsewhere in british north america. i hope you will grant me some
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latitude in terms of geography and chronology. seeking and the completed argument. like stand on issues that seem odd or unclear. after all i'm trying to reconstruct it we might call a populist of religious experience from 18th century new england. there is not anyone who offers a coherent or systematic overview of the constellation of religious beliefs and beliefs today. in the end it is my hope that tracking a cluster of related experiential issues will lead to sexuality in the body among the people called new lights, and perhaps extension against the progeny and her own fines.
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so at this point let me turn to the local context of the smith murder case. barring some of the material darkness falls on the land of light. john and mary smith murder trials lay at the center of the marital scandals during the years between the bible with the evangelist whitfield in 1840. in each case the leading figures had experienced conversion drawn in the tax appointed church. indeed all of these adultery cases exploded within so-called strict or separate congregational churches. form during the 1740s in
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opposition to the puritan congregation establishment but by the time the scandals broke many of these same renegade new white baptist churches. ebenezer who presided over a small congregation in cumberland, rhode island. in 1749, was civil authority he allows his daughter, molly to sleep with the revival convert. several years earlier molly had married joseph bennett but appears to have found on their union, believing it to be an estate informed his daughter i would her lawful husband here lies molly when bennett was at sea. provided a late with the bible
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between them. returning from one of his villages he and his young wife pregnant and gauge an adulterous relationship with her father's approval. he immediately sued for divorce claiming ebenezer warren had conspired to seduce his wife. the rhode island courts granted his request finds affinity and sent word to jail. several months later he moves with his daughter and her new spiritual husband in 1751 back to the town where he spread his a wicked ins sain tenants among the solomon finney's extended family and neighbors. between 1751 and 1764, isaac bacchus provided a series of bitter church councils in which the separate churches excommunicated several of ebenezer's words followers who testified they'd not got there
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white right wives at taking up other women. the radicals maintained the union between two persons when they were married together is a spiritual union. they denied the authority of civil magistrates to establish marriage contracts and follows the lead into a state of perfection in this world. freed from all thinking and trouble and say they should never die. last two decades allegations of similar abominations sprang up in the new marine towns. it is a of radicals of worship for a short time and ebenezer warren the life of solomon for one time revival preacher of the grafton congregational church in central massachusetts. during her husband's dismissal
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and 1747, sarah had passed a powerful conversion experience and separated from the church. rumors abounded heat engagement one congregational minister called criminal with the other under the splendid guys of spiritual love and friendship. later in the century college president associated shadow creature to lie as her spiritual husband. ireland would go on to form one of the first utopias in the small village of harvard. a large dormitory known as the square house for the followers and continues practicing his spiritual marriage into the 1770s. men and 1753 path to what she called a second change in her
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body said that she had been entirely her corruption in her soul ever since. he informed a shocked isaac bacchus she was convinced the spiritual and physical incorrect ability sarah prentice and immortal. meanwhile the strict congregational churches in and around bacchus' holy town of connecticut went to pieces by a string of marital controversies. shortly after 1748 and again no relation to our canterbury murder suspect to be his spiritual wife. for several months to live with him scandalously coupled
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with smith and refused to heed the abolition's of the church. he would eventually renounce that scheme is a delusion of the devil mary smith went on to partner with another member of the and in a surprising turn of events his wife approved of the match and was charged with being in striving to hide his sin. the elder john palmer have little choice but to excommunicate parishioners and their god provoking family and destroying soul damning practices. the marital conflicts soon spilled over into the neighboring town of canterbury. one case involved a single woman named mary wilkinson who developed a reputation during the revival as a person of evil fame. in 1746, the nearby congregational church in
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connecticut had vanished onto siblings after they declared the minister presided over a church of antichrist. was a small radicals who like sarah prentice believed they had passed the first resurrection and were imperfect mortals. during the same month century for his heritage only a few miles away, he stunned the canterbury set with blasphemous outbursts. i will bless you and you shall be saved she declared to a stunned young man in the congregation. but if you will not i shall curse you and you will be damned. she continued to hike up her skirt exposing her thighs in a very obscene manner. she would expose her nakedness further. before the county magistrate welcome while wilkinson expressed her discourse and
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paid a fine. she also attempted to excuse her strange tirade. elevated clements who experiences had convinced her there was neither good nor evil in any expressions or actions under whatsoever circumstances. this was of regional context and with john smith began talking about his spiritual union with mary smith. sometimes of 1749. that canterbury church is centered both for their vain irreverent speeches and coiled spirits. but john and mary refused a tenth of their sins and sail on september 27, 1749 that canterbury voted to excommunicate john smith from the church. six months later, his wife, who is dead. local residents literally called the late 1730s were a
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time of considerable discourse about marrying in the new covenant. molly becket who stood at the center of that controversy defended solomon by claiming he was made for her. man and wife internally but not externally she maintained, for god had made it known to them that it was so. it's worth remembering new england congregational's in their church and ancestors never considered marriage to be a religious sacrament. indeed for all the 17th century well into the 18th, marriages performed by justice of the peace with little ceremony other than publishing. much more what we call civil unions than religious rituals. as to understand the theological reasoning behind these so-called internal or name covenant marriages returned to george whitfield. it surged across new england during the 1740s.
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critics including english artist who was scandalous you see here, created this powerful work upon the passion of a weak women and youth permitted rude behavior. it lay elsewhere. the distinctive notion of conversion as an instantaneous intrusion of god's holy spirit, directly into the bodies. seventeenth century puritan minister had american metaphors to your sermon. both men and women possessed feminine stoles that need to be a spouse to christ. get ministers also understood the consummation of this metaphorical spiritual unit did not take place until christ's return and the day of judgment. more confident of instantaneous conversion experiences, winfield young by
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contrast demonstrated the holy spirit literally took possession and ravished their once sinful bodies. the people called new life the bridegroom had finally arrived to make them direct partakers of his love. in the case of consummating this heavenly union seductively invited sexually large descriptions of their conversions. a number of prominent laypeople i read about the experience is in the peak months of the revival, spoke of seeking potential spouses who had been born again. likewise a few of the most radical preachers of the. including leading figures in the future founder of dartmouth college, preached a dense converted wise continuing hannah of connecticut for example recalled how the dangerous and james and davenport to dissuade her from marrying a
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man who could not testify of the holy spirit. nothing about believers there especially troublesome in strict congregational and separate baptist churches but unlike their puritan forebears many of the people called new lights see the marriage not just as a physical union or physical arrangement by an institution of god. the spiritual joining of souls. tend to be more cells maintaining strict, also firmly believed god needs to communicate with his faithful saints through a new revelation, visions and other miraculous phenomenon. many sought divine direction and choice of a spouse bridget take for example, why should
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he informed that canterbury church so marked out the union had a demonstration of god's will in question there own conversions. it would appear the religious phenomenon that would come to be called spiritual took shape during the 1740s. the key elements of this populist theology including five factors, first, george whitfield's concept of conversion is debatable, full bodied and above eight experience with the dissent and physical implantation of god's holy spirit, which was secondly fascination with various charisma attic the holy spirit and continuous revelation and superseded what is contained in the bible.
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thirdly the desire among many revival convents to be married saints can testify to a similar experience with the holy spirit. and fourthly, marriage to an internal union of souls ordained by god, dependent on social practices in human authorities. and alas, for some, the sense their souls at least not their bodies, perfect without sin and morally corruptible. leaders of the separate movement quickly recognize internal marriage or represented accounting heresy. it's a logical extension of many of the practices they previously nurtured and sought to institutionalize among their breakaway churches. as you can see from this map ideas about internal marriage were spreading rapidly throughout southern new england during the 1740s and
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1750s. especially candid letter written to isaac bacchus several months after the smith murder trials, minister of a separate church and connecticut placed internal marriage in the context of what he calls a dangerous sport that i gripped his congregants. a slippery slope to infidelity. she refused to even pray until they had experienced what they called the new birth or conversion. from there they renounce their infant baptism which were invalid because they were taken in an un- generated state. find the most zealous among them maintain marriage with an institution of god. those who had not been married in the faith, that is after the holy spirit had entered into their body and the active conversion, they would put away their wives and husbands. if left unchecked, the concept
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of the new birth would push overzealous saints directly along in this line. for the revivals into the separate movement to baptism and into the great mystery of iniquity, the adultery scandals that had rocked the churches of eastern connecticut. okay, that is my argument, pretty heavy stuff, right? what you think? let's pause here and answer some of your questions before we move on and draw a marker and some these topics we have been covering. >> thank you so much, wow. [laughter] i think people's view of 18th century religion as being demure and drab is probably shattered forever. [laughter] >> well spoken. for sure. >> a couple of -- clearing something up questions that we
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had, one is could you provide background on the congregational church? i think that means related to the congregational church we know today. >> so today's universal churches in new england dwelt from their name of puritan heritage in the 17th century in the era of the puritan great migrations of the 1730s. important to member for the story i am telling today, the first 100 years of settlement and new england those congregational churches, especially in connecticut and massachusetts have a state-supported monopoly on religious culture. every person that was a settlor or inhabitant were required by law to pay taxes to support their local congregation minister and to attend worship services every sunday. that meant there was a very little religious dissent in new england.
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in fact it is a argue in the first part of my book, it became much more of a monoculture during the 18th century. baptists, quakers and anglicans and episcopalians especially in rhode island but the places i've been talking about eastern connecticut, central and southeastern massachusetts there is a one and only one kind of way of being religious. the revivals of the 1740s that teach others to experience religion differently. it is out of that experience of religious difference the kinds of adultery scandals i've been talking about appear at the far end of that experimental with the revivals. >> okay, you keep mentioning whitfield. could you tell us a little bit more about him? why is he important to your
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story? a famous figure in history of global evangelicalism. one of the founding rights. he is an english teacher he studies at oxford university in the 1730s. he is the contemporary of the founders of english methodism. he is a dramatic or a tour and theatrical performer. during the late 1730s he embarks on the first of many transatlantic preaching tours. in 1739 he preachers his way from south carolina to maine. electrifying his audiences everywhere he goes. he has a folksy style, uses rhetorical techniques to connect with his audiences. he has a powerful message of instantaneous conversion. people who have heard him preach suddenly realized the
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way they have been participating in congregational life, is it lacking something is lacking what is called the new birth. soon to be raised with the congregational churches, baptized and worship service every sunday is not enough. to have what's called the holy spirit living inside of them. there is a revolutionary new way to experience deceit with the hallmarks of evangelicalism. this idea that conversion can be instantaneous they would often say you could know the difference between midnight and noonday lights. that transformation to look they began to see it in their experiences, they look for in the neighbors. when they found it lacking that's when they began to split away from the churches
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and that purification movement which is a lot of the controversy them talking about today. >> interesting. i have a question who says these separatists view their ideas as new revelation are that grounding this in higher movement of christianity? >> i think it depends if you are able to ask them, or ask me. there is a lot of her rhetoric during the revivals and the religious culture during the 1740s. people have never seen anything like the outpouring of the holy spirit since the days of the apostles. many of them turn to metaphors and ideas, or imagery derived from the apostles and pentecost. the outpouring the gifts of the holy spirit on the disciples and early followers of jesus. they felt like they were living in a really heady time for almost anything was
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possible. things like speaking in tongues, and new revelations from god. so, in some ways these separatists who are at the most radical edge, but see themselves a living as if they are living again and apostolic times. what they were doing was revolutionary. most will argue revelation it close at the end of the apostolic age. faith healings, speaking in tongues, those things don't happen in our world in the 1740s. they are a radical revival congregants really did. it's a basis that i would answer that question. >> yes, interesting. i had a question from brett's comment was there sense spiritual with paris was against catholic sacramental is him and suspect in that way? we are breaking the sacrament?
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>> i don't think so. that is a very interesting question. obviously, especially during the time. we are talking to the 1740s, 50s and 60s, or locked in a series of political struggles with catholic and french bread there's a lot of anti-catholic rhetoric. you will see it in political sermon. there is sort of a hatred up north and french canada. but i don't see any ancient catholic language from the controversies i'm talking about today. >> that is really interesting. we actually have some questions that are bringing some of this up to the present. i think i'm going to wait until after the second part of your talk to bring some of those up. you know you have more to tell us. i will let you take that on
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and will see you again in a few minutes but. >> that sounds good. we leave it to the larger issues because they are important. first me tell you a little bit about the bigger picture. spread out these cases i've been talking about and spread them out a little wider for you. so far were looking a narrow range of new life adultery cases from a relatively short period of time. to what extent do these mind and body issues continue to shape the experience of those called the new life in revivals in the 1740s? to answer that question i will try to trace this distinctive logic, so consider the case of mary bacchus. a distant relative. centered at canterbury for usurping the church's decision
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to excommunicate john smith. mary bacchus defiantly declared she will continue to hold communion with smith after he'd been cast of the canterbury church. he brazenly admitted with mary smith for even after he'd been tried for murder. the stated reason of her dissent offers a fascinating glimpse between sectarian strain and the movement. bacchus held that any soul could never sin. john smith knew which inspired mary smith and his wife. those transgressions did not taint the puritan of his soul. the canterbury church had no grounds on which to excommunicate.
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souls were spiritually perfect, incapable of seeing the failings of their mortal bodies. the early 18th and 19th century. there's one example maritime canada were interestingly enough hail and towns in southeastern connecticut during the nail 70s two decades later, perfectionist ideas surfaced alongside controversy over marriage. in cornwallis and marriage is being invalid in the president of the local presbyterian clergy which you can see the portrait here to live apart from her own converted husband. so it is much assume for her to have children by him as by any other man.
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other than preachers in nova scotia i the possibility of getting drunk certain many acts of murder and adultery. the bodies of the saints not convict souls were capable of sin. a believer is like a nut firm into the net explain the prominent preacher. they're dirty the shell but not the colonel. administer miller. jeremy 17 he moved his family to richmond, new hampshire with a group of zealous perfectionists led by a baptist elder named moses hicks. hicks and his followers have recently exchanged something called the old wise for
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spiritual wives route 1780 when the massachusetts several members of group to sit on the gallows they were belief with the letter a further adulterous indiscretions. most of the faction gently rejected the principle of what the called spiritual with paris. instead they moved on to become the founders of the universalist denomination which came across the hill country early in the 19th century. another notable member of miller's separate church and cumberland was a wilkinson who you see here in the bottom left corner. came in from a neighboring town of rhode island. during the british occupation of providence 1776 he fell into a trend and which angels clad in white robes wearing golden crowns. from her sickbed she
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proclaimed she was the person of jesus christ come forth and now appears from her body went all the rest the powers of the messiah. the universal friend dressing and men's clothing and a grown and shrill voice that confounded her many critics. respond to the name and the body existed from maternity to live fully with no ability of error possibility of defect in any respect. after gathering followers the 1780s, the friends founded a communal society in western new york which flourished in the 19th century. then of course there were the shakers. they were successful and
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notorious new religious movement in british north america prior to the rise in the 1830s. founded by an english mill worker who integrated colonies in 1774 shape the beliefs and practices that epitomized between simple bodies that so preoccupied the people during the second half of the 18th century. taught that actual intercourse was the sin of humanity the root of the former adam and eve in the garden of eden. the second coming of the christ spirit and female form. taking up the cross of celibacy discipline their bodies and perfected. by 1800 the shakers have converted thousands of leaders organized shown here in blue
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most performer congregational or separate baptist churches of new england once puritan establishment. there print just experimenting with shakers or time in 1780, shadrach shaker village in harvard massachusetts. dozens of families in the very towns even talking that eventually found their way into the shaker fold. places like canterbury, connecticut and massachusetts to experience powerful religious revival and more important, controversy over marriage and sexuality in the 1760s. what unites all these stories and nova scotia to the new york front tier, is this basic fact. the people called new lights were not just seekers who
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experiences and commitment to continuing revolution propelled them into a quest for spiritual purity. as late men and women work to the logic of their theology and conversions they began to question all institutions, sacrament, churches, community and families. they started new ideas about the find sexuality, marriage and the family. some such as molly warren and moses hicks innovative marriage to internal spiritual union set the stage for various and adultery scandals that followed. all of the embraces religion she and the friend turned in the opposite direction to transcend their bodies by denying altogether and practicing rigorous.
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the shakers to file the celibate path to spiritual perfection. still others, including those of nova scotia denying the resurrection of the latter. in proclaiming the perfect and immortal whatever the feeling of physical husk. in a brief interpretive order to dispel world spouse swappers, live forever's suggestions for thinking about helping mind and body struggles that came to define the experiences of the people called new lights. challenges us to rethink our understanding of religion in early america. first, the connections and trajectories i've been sketching should give us pause of the so-called first and second great awakenings.
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the book about the great awakening but i disagree. they're using that phrase altogether and i have been trying to do my talk today. controversy over the body, marriage is also the peak searches of revivalism. the 1730s and 1740s marked the emergence of the new light the understanding and development of a tradition of religious radicals. second is the need to consider how we situate the so-called sectarian train within the broader history. for many, by knowing all scholars, the shakers and other religious outsiders are products that purportedly fully air the revolutionary political and social climate. they are creatures of the
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democratization of american christianity. one thing is clear from the eclectic predate the revolution. as to the purity to realize the alternative religious communities including obscure feelings of group such as the pilgrims, the house society than odd. be on these small, short-lived movements stand the pillars of the american tradition for the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. sexual and american practices have inspired generations of scholarships. they were descendents called new lights. might much deeper than we once thought. the famous antebellum
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spiritual hothouse generations in the making. the further foil of the popular religious experiences from the 18th century with revival. which is what we look for similar developments around the world. that in giving the people new lights as american originals as one scholar has suggested. on the methodists of manchester, england for example or of germany and bethlehem, pennsylvania. many ways in which they sought to regulate and promote the sexuality of its members to robust body of scholarship is more about the challenges and possibilities of living saintly lives will encased in bodies and any other protestant community and vast early america. it's the most romantic world is the story that still needs to be told.
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as another e word, evangelical. you will recall intentionally left that term undefined in my introduction just like i've done this talk. by focusing on the people called new lights instead i tried to distance my heritage from other studies that emphasize continuity exemplified in the way of scholars such as megan hatch, george, thomas kid, intellectual genealogy by the static definition of evangelicalism first reposed by historian david addington. all evangelicals were religious travelers of one sort of another. in effect for too long, sense
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of revivalism scholars had so often maintained theological ones. they're obligated not only to reconsider the state of their souls with their body, their sexuality, their marriages and their families. none of these concerns and modern evangelicalism. when they talk about people called new lights we should dispense with definition altogether. to think about evangelical as a definable essence. we can see evangelical as being an understanding that stretches religion becoming. we want to deliberate speakers like mary and john smith.
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to the fragmented religious cultures of the 18th century and the early american republic. speaking of the smiths, we have one piece of unfinished business to complete here, how did things work out in their death by pancakes murder trial? on june 19, 1750, mary smith was summoned to the jail and arraigned before the connecticut superior court. she pleaded not guilty, put herself on god in the country. the attorney called nearly two dozen witnesses and former brethren and congregational church. the court told mary not guilty of the murder of annabelle smith. they. later in the day the grand jury rejected john's smith murder indictment altogether.
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john and mary smith were forced to bear the cost of their trial that was customary in cases where the accused or suspicion following the acquittal. these costs were staggering in excess of three and 77 counties and 240 for joe. then, an extraordinary turn of events john and mary smith were married less than six months after the conclusion of the trial. mary was already pregnant at the time was the first of their four children was born later in 1751. at the time of death nine years later john smith and kitchen implements, and bedding, spinning wheels and books. nearly all of the state was sold off to pay his creditors. mary smith remained in canterbury for the rest of her life living miserably according to bacchus. 1782 mary had watched go right
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past her front door and down the main road, opening the gospel to many of the same families would once divorce traditional mary ann would have the first shaker villages in new england. thanks a much. >> wow, thank you. [laughter] okay, we have quite a few questions. let me, start with an anonymous one. you have told us a lot about the situation in new england. have you discovered evidence that these kind of concerns the people are called new life have long religious and other parts of america? >> the answer to that is yes. it is kind of a popular folk theology of religious
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experience. when people can arrive at different places. i tried to treat some direct communications in massachusetts. one of the things i'm working on now is the book about the lives of western shaker is him and one thing i noticed is the biggest shaker missionaries that traveled to the west in 1805 and another period of intensive revival is the great revival. it's the birth of the american bible belt. kentucky and ohio when they met people there were surprised to find many of them were already going along with ideas about sexuality and marriage. ac prizing number of people that they talk to, would say things like we tried to practice and i tried to practice celibacy for a few months during the revival we were not able to do so.
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they became a radical becoming some of the shakers first convert. the when is it new jersey transplant and a founder of the account of hamilton, ohio. he was all excited about their teaching and their messages. the shakers that initially he would be a convert until a search on with the radical ideas that he could be partnered with anyone he wanted. and then the shakers were horrified. you can see both sides of the spectrum. grow up independently far removed from the tiny space we have been looking at today. the answer to that question is yes. >> interesting. >> several people have asked about mormonism of the 1840s.
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a lot of the same terminology, spiritual with paris, all of that kind of thing. is there some connection there? >> i think these are -- i would like to hope this is kind of a freak will that more of a scholars have been working on. there is scholarship more from norm's adamant evangelicalism in upstate new york, new england or definite events for that greatest good genealogical evidence that indicates many converts have roots in new england. how many have been in families were trafficking along the same routes i have been studying and presented today
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they've been out of puritan establishments, baptist and's strict congregation of the baptist churches. our enough of a secret mentality and those families smith's idea about the marriage attracted to them. >> i have several different questions and i will sort of summarize it and rapid into a question i wanted to ask. people are asking about the relation of how you might relate more recent sexual scandals involving modern evangelicals to this sort of background. i also want to say the beginning of your presentation you mentioned your argument might tell us something better on time. at the risk of opening a can of worms can you expand on that? [laughter] >> obviously this is a complicated question to answer.
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but, for contemporary evangelicals and consider themselves conservative christians they have raised the bar on what it means to be a religious person to a point where these kind of mind/body issues become activated. i think it may help, trying to have this very long, century long history of this problem. it's one evangelicals feel a little more than other kinds of protestants. it might account for the stance that some conservative christians take on marriage. the interesting and concern for so-called family values. and then at the same time it would help to explain a little bit more about why evangelicalism is a movement
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to which have impacted certain kinds of communities are seen such a a betrayal of its central core values. i think the idea one can have a born-again experience can create eight weight on someone's religious life. make the issues about what i do that i live in this kind of a body, other kinds of christians and protestants in particular. >> wow. so thank you. i think we've just about reached the end of our time. it's an intriguing talk. it's given us a lot to think about. thank you so much. i look forward to seeing what you come up with thanks so much, this is great i really appreciate it. >> american history tv is on social media. follow us at sea snd

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