and no one has a view of the big picture. as the conversation shifts i see it slowly morphing into systemic and structural changes of how we educate children, how we welcome families intercountry in the barriers that we are starting to knock down one by one. >> that's so beautiful and painful and i think it's important i thank you so much for writing it in joining us to talk about it. >> thank you so much for your thoughtful engagement and thank you to everyone who chose to spend the night with me, it's been a joy to be here. >> thank you from the literary foundation in santa cruz california in book sue and west hollywood all have which have plenty of copies of the beautiful country, i am angie and i am wishing you a grand and

good night, happy health, be well and good night. >> booktv continues now, television for serious readers. >> good evening, everyone and welcome i am brad graham the co-owner of politics and prose along with my wife melissa muscatine, we have a great program this evening featuring washington post journalist woodward and robert costa to talk about the revelatory new book harold, i'll bring the last month of the top administration in the first months of biden's presidency. too post a question at any point during the discussion, click on the q&a icon at the bottom of the screen in the chat column you'll have a link for purchasing. bob woodward has reported in washington for half a century. with five decades with the washington post where he remains an associate editor he has covered ten presidents and

shared to what surprise when for the post coverage of the watergate scandal and second the lead reporter for coverage of the 9/11 terrorist attack. they have both made headlines and drawn many leaders under the national bestsellers. bob cost is a little younger about half woodward's age as woodward note in the acknowledgment the national political reporter at the post where he's worked for nearly eight years following several years at the national review. in moderating editor and a political analyst for nbc news and msnbc. no doubt they have heard or read the highlights in general milley with his counterpart in the chinese fears about trump

possibly launching an attack were mike pence searching and whether in congress he could've rejected the election results only to be told by dan quayle to forget it, there is much more to this explosive page two turner of a book it'll leave you aghast not only at how close the country came to a break but also help pair realism the future remains. the conversation with authors will be jean robinson, pulitzer prize winning columnist at the post in the four decades of the paper also has covered city hall reported from europe and south america and that the south section additionally he is author of three books working on a fourth and appears frequently on msnbc as a political analyst. gentlemen, enter. >> thank you so much first i

want to say what a pleasure and honor to be doing this tonight, brad i've known you for many years and my predecessor at the post bob costa i've known you since she came to work at the washington post in a very quickly saw and admired your persistence as a reporter, this is a great young reporter and bob woodward i've known you for 41 and a half years, you hired me at the washington post. >> that was a mistake. >> you can try to atone for that if you want but it's too late to take it back. and you are the great reporter of our time, it's a real

privilege to be here with the two of you to talk about peril, my first question is the making of the book. how does this collaboration come about and bob woodward you've done other books with collaborators and co-authors in you've done on your own what seems to have been a match made in heaven actually come about? >> it was a match made in trump's hotel in washington in 2016 costa said to me trump might be president he was on the verge of getting the nomination and he said we should go interview him. we did and i got two titles from the interview, i always bring

out fear or a use fear to get my way and i bring outrage in people so fear in rage came from the interview and after the interview he said some things and if he was elected president he would end the national debt in the first term and i observed that is not happen in the national debt and is going through the roof and i remember what you said to me. >> we have several conversations at the time how we had to take

trump seriously. , that interview in 2016 was a precursor to this book in terms of the method must talk to this candidate donald trump he said let's not go in there with a fishing pole as reporters and try to get different soundbites and really prepare for the interview. in other presidents of the past and he said to me in 2016 in february and march as we were getting ready and thinking about decisions why did trump decide to run how does he want to use power if he achieves and wins the presidency how would he wield the power does the understanding what does he want what's his goal, in the heart of a campaign trump had effectively

sewed up the nomination in march of 2016 we went in there to have a governing conversation with donald trump and it was quite long and it was not about topics of the day it was about the presidency and that to me was one of those moments he said this method in this approach of looking at the governing possibility first not the political issues is critical and i said we probably aren't doing this enough as we cover this campaign and woodward and i have remained close and says reporters thinking about the office of the presidency, power decisions. >> as i read over the last few days, pretty regularly while joel would drop.

in other words i don't use in polite company. in some of the stuff i found on curious, let's start with you bob woodward and bob costa, what made your jaw drop. what was a revelation in the nugget in the event and the conversation, what was it that jumped out at you and made you say whoa. >> the theme of what we found in it truly surprised us that this period between the election and the inauguration of biden was a national security crisis not just a domestic crisis, the worry that trump might have a

right stand moment and what would be the domestic impact of that, what we didn't realize is the chinese, the russians, the iranians were watching the united states. and were terrified about what was going on and put themselves on military alert, the chinese at one point, general lead ahead of the chinese military was telling people and it was the intelligence report and he thought the united states was going to check china but when general milley, chairman of the joint chief solve this, this is a crisis because the adversary thinks you might attack them as general milley told his senior staff then you have to worry they may attack you and you may have a pearl harbor, if you put

yourself in millie's shoes as we tried to do with our reporting, of how this all went down it was a very dangerous time and later it's been said these were secret phone calls he had and they were on a top-secret back channel but they were not seeking in the second call, two days after january 6 insurrection. he had intelligence at the chinese thought the united states was collapsing. once again he had to deal with generally and he prodded the intelligence agency, the nsa, national security agency, gina

was cia and told her look and everything, told the joint chief called up the admiral who ran operations around china and said cancel the exercises because they may be misread by the chinese provocative. this is the moment, this is the military persons nightmare and to have an adversary think that you might attack them and later to have the adversary actually think you and your own government might collapse. >> that's astonishing. you guys right there during that time general milley was concerned that president trump had suffered serious mental

decline in the aftermath of the election. i'm curious i would like both of you to weigh in maybe starting with bob costa. why was this that much of a surprise the way trump was acting in the surprised to general milley given what he had seen from trump and all the other jaw-dropping moments that we see. rob costa? >> are reporting does not cast it or show it to be a surprise, it's a culmination, a conclusion following the general assessment of close of president trump and going back to lafayette square we have seen screening at military leaders, civilian and in uniform and the protest in washington, d.c. in the combat

troops to confront the protesters, we see president trump issuing his own memo outside of the usual channels to withdraw u.s. troops from afghanistan and november 2020 a critical moment in the book because it causes people like chairman milley to realize that this president could go outside of the channel not only on withdraw when it comes afghanistan but putting his sharpie signature on some document that it leads to a situation with dire consequences. that same behavior and conduct with president trump's anger and theory over his defeat to biden could lead to challenges and to perhaps a crisis or catastrophe with u.s. nuclear or should he calls in the kernels who run the

strike operation and the pentagon were room and he says follow the procedure and make sure i am part of this procedure i need to be on the net, bring median if you get a call from anybody call me, milley is not in the chain of commands but he wants to be part of the procedure and he supposed to be part of the procedure and he says as he goes around the room, got it, yes, sir, got it, yes, sir. it's a moment because is not a psychiatrist but is a senior military officer in the united states make it a conclusion that the president he saw up close is in serious mental decline in getting the speaker of the house the same day nancy pelosi calling him insane he is crazy speaking of president trump and we have the whole transcript in the book a transco that was not revealed to the public before and he saying she's crazy you better make sure you have some control over the nuclear arsenal to something that could trigger war perhaps even more with china and another adversary doesn't

happen. >> i guess i'm asking because is certainly not the first crazy that we saw from trump and chronologically in the book early in the trump administration we have him refusing to sign off on an aircraft carrier because he doesn't like the look of it he thinks the tower should be in a different position, he's enable architect all the sudden. and you paul ryan the former speaker of the house getting a briefing on our personality disorder and you have to wonder how many people knew what they were dealing with when they were dealing with donald trump. you mentioned the lafayette square park debacle in

june 2020, the peaceful demonstrators were cleared violently out of the area and walked over to st. john's church to hold up the bible in general milley regretted and later apologized, "after words" secretary mark esper did an interesting thing having heard the burbling of the use of the insurrection act to mobilize the military against black lives matter demonstrators, mark esper announced publicly that there was no need to invoke the

insurrection act in trump was furious and he said your ticket away my authorities. >> he would not be pushed around and he actually shoved his statement at trump who was sitting at the desk, this is what i said, understand don't misinterpret it. this is one of the many incidents where milley just said my god there is a mental decline here, there is a danger and he had a wonderful praise for which i want to read, for general milley this is the darkest moment of theoretical possibility other words the moment was dark but the possibility was theoretical but that it became real when you mix

it with trump personality and the irrational raging, what mark esper and milley realized on this, jane and i worked together for years there is a point where you can't make the boss you keep them from doing well will be damage to the institution and they believe that they checkmated bringing groups to washington. in esper's experience in the problem he had he was fired after the election and the trump put in somebody, chris miller no

one knew what was going on there, there was no trust so you have the moment after moment, i don't want to dwell on this too much but here milley is up in miller's office and sees this memo that trump has signed withdraw the troops from afghanistan. milley is under the law and supposed to be involved in this, he was surprised they go over to the white house and eventually trump nullifies that memo but clearly trump will go off-line. >> let me jump around to the actual events of january 6 for a minute. because they continue to

reverberate in our politics and in our life for a long time. this question, the west wing was more or less deserted that day, there was very few people there and from the description and peril the president seems almost mesmerized or transfixed by the television interviews and almost out of it in a sense, is that an unfair characterization or how would you characterize the reporting about trump inside the west wing on the day. >> as bob woodward has said we have discovered this national security crisis a very grave situation on the national security front during the

transition especially after the insurrection on january 6 but we also found a very grave domestic political crisis that bordered on being a constitutional crisis of a few things going differently and while the events in the west wing in the afternoon of january 6, it was pretty deserted and he's watching tv in a flat mood it's not accurate to think of that as president trump on january 6. some of the most important parts that that section of the book, in the days before january 6 and while president trump may have been watching tv and seemingly idle during the riot itself we see president trump through our reporting be a very active player in the days before january 6, on january 2 senators

like mike lee, lindsey graham, two top republicans and close allies are being pressured by the white house, mark meadows the chief of staff, rudy giuliani and the conservative lawyer to think through how to help president trump get his aim of throwing some of these electors out moving the election to the house of representatives were republicans because they have control of the most obligations could tip the election to president trump in a very important meeting on january 4 were the vice president pence in his lawyer and his advisors to the oval office and president trump is there with john eastman, his conservative lawyer, for the first time he publishes memo that is gotten a lot of attention as six part memo outlining how pens could throw electors and give the election to trump. ngc in the scene president trump saying listen to john eastman, listen to john and he has his memo saying is constitutional

and legal for pens to essentially walk up on january 6 and walk away, this is president trump having a pressure campaign of his own vice president and using the legal conservative community and his allies there, the political community allies like guiliani and steve being in together on june 5 and all of these are happening behind the scenes, that's what matters in the reporting as much were probably more than president trump sitting there on january 6 watching tv. >> that is fascinating let's talk for a minute about vice president pence whom president trump urged with the memo and he kept talking about eastman and he says it's legal and he says you can do it, ultimately the vice president decides the legal advice he was getting and he

cannot just throw out the votes and meanwhile senator lee who had taken on himself to call the election officials in the states and learn that none of the states were gonna toss out there electric. bob woodward talk a little bit about mike pence and how you reviewed him was irresolute to rob the crisis, was he tempted to see what he could do to satisfy the president he served so loyally for four years, how should we end up seeing based on what you guys found out.

>> is complicated the multidimensional, mike pence wanted to accommodate trump because mike pence knew if something could be worked out, he might be able to stay as vice president, it was so obvious there are scenes which we can report for the first time where trump and mike pence are in the oval office and trump is saying to him, don't you wish you had this power and wouldn't this be great and mike pence is resisting andy's back and forth and he had some lawyers and counselors who are identified in the book saying you can't do this, you don't have the power and as you pointed out, at one point mike pence and dan quayle the former vice president who

had also been from indiana told mike pence, you don't have that power, he cited the constitution and the law but you see the hesitation on mike pence part in all of this and finally at the end he does stand up and do what is constitutional and realizes and says to his advisors, okay i meant to do the conservative constitutionalist would do. this was part of the peril and all of this, if mike pence had gone the other way and decided i'm confused, i don't know how we certify the winner here and walked away, which he could've done, trump was very anxious to

have them do, we would have a constitutional crisis, a crisis about the legitimacy of the presidency, who is president, who won and so forth, this again is whatever the political and constitutional bullets that we dodged the whole time. >> we did and it's funny to say that we dodged the bullet because when we went to january 6 and there were millions of americans who still deny the legitimacy of the election but in fact we did dodge a larger caliber bullet that would've been a constitutional crisis with mike pence and the conversations you referred to president trump saying the vice president wouldn't it almost be cool to have the power to throw out the boats. when mike pence says no trump

says i don't want to be your friend anymore if you don't do this. and he said you betrayed me, i made you, you were nothing. it's all about donald trump's and it, is it everything from the beginning to the end, every minute of every day isn't all about donald trump and i use the present tense because i assume it still that way. isn't that what you reporting. >> one thing that stood out to us in our reporting is after mike pence leaves the oval office he looks white as a ghost, rattled, people who were seen him at that time said he was shook, he goes home and has a dinner schedule but president trump on january 6 states at the white house in the open so door to the oval office out into the

garden, 31 degrees and he was getting ready for the rally, this is the big moment and that the hotel you have guiliani and other allies huddling together and i was in the streets of washington reporting and it was chaos, cops fighting with protesters, protesters and red caps walking through the streets and what we found out president trump opens the door to the oval office in the freezing weather and takes it all in, here is the prize of his supporters and says isn't that terrific when some of trump's aids come into the room they start to shiver and say someone going to close the door he doesn't close the door he keeps it open he wants to hear his people out there and bob woodward said to me, it almost reminded him of nixon talking to

the pictures on the walls and 1974. >> what is interesting about it, bob costa and i talked about this in length when we discovered what happened at this moment, it's almost a mystical engagement that trump has with them about their. he is mesmerized by it, we discussed this and nixon in his final days was talking to the pictures on the wall and nixon was talking to washington and lincoln, trump was talking to his bob and that is his connection to the population and it is, the last line in the book are peril remains because of trump, what he stands for and is

out there in the political world, some polls show he would be biden and trump has 30 - 40% of the people in the final days of the trump administration.

it also has chapters about joe biden and the incoming biden administration. and, you switch from one to the other, it's almost like you're talking about two different countries. [laughter] you're talking about one country where everything is crazy and one country where things are more orderly and normal and work the way you kind of think government in washington works. no matter which party is in charge, is that a fair characterization of the contrast you get in the book? isn't it a book of not just to fascinating individuals, but to countries as well? >> i would not phrase it particularly that way. these are intertwined stories. we begin the book january 8, you understand where this

country ended up in the days after the insurrection. you also want to answer the question and are reporting, how did you get there and where is this nation going? we go back to charlottesville, back to biden's decision to run. someone who'd run twice and never found his footing in any of those races in any meaningful way. he always had this burning ambition even eight years after being the vice president. and he decided to run, spurred by this belief that what was happening in the country, white supremacy, this was un-american. his traditional center left politics never really but democracy was at risk. that fueled him in a different way to almost feel like he was in mission before he made a formal decision to almost willed himself to run, to try

to confront what trump and his mind was doing to the country. it's a human story, and it is a political story and it is a reaction. >> it is almost time to start taking some questions from the audience. but before we do i have one quick question for both of you and i will start with bob costa is trump going to run again? >> he continues to tease it publicly and says to everybody he knows you're going to like my decision. his confidantes were working with him now or updating him on pulling all the time in new jersey, and florida telling him he's the most popular republican in the country. he has the political capitol. he is saying too many people behind the scenes in our book he wants to run again. when he tells brad his former campaign manager this past summer, he once that army back. that is his phrase pretty had

an army, he wants it back. he told others he's going to run it not for any sort of a policy aim, but he is going to run because he believes the election was stolen and he wants vengeance. >> i think he has definitely running. the really interesting question is why? what is the rationale for the candidacy, we used to talk about why this candidate? why are they running? what would they do if they one? trump has based, i mean all this year this issue the election was stolen. he pivots around that. i think it is so important to

examine exactly was the election stolen when you have senator lindsey graham and senator mike lee investigate an extended scene where mike lee is sitting because he reached this memo from john eastman electors in seven states. it will be major news and a senator can get anyone on the phone as we know. he sits there for a couple of days and calls all the heads of the legislatures in arizona, wisconsin, pennsylvania and georgia and says alternative electors?

no, zero, time and time. there is nothing there. he tries to tell trump personally this and convey that message as lindsey graham his supporters. it is kind of like the "washington post" and some editor says the story is there no it's not there that does not exist. editors and presidents have in their head these things do not exist. with the existence of a stolen election is a total fantasy. wheat scratched around, we called people, we went out into the night. knocking on doors, reluctant

sources, making sure we got the best obtainable version of what occurred here. and what occurred here is there was no stolen election. >> on that note, i am going to turn to some the questions we have from the audience. the first one, will this be treasonous if you step outside of any normal channels in his communication with the chinese? or was this within. [inaudible] by. >> chairman millie going to testify before congress next

week he's issued a statement ahead of that testimony saying he worked with in the procedures there wasn't some kind of miscommunication as bob and i write. this communication can be the seat of war, millie knew that. he wanted to avoid it on october 30, 2020. that's why there's a call to general lee. and again on january 8, 2021. it is important to read the full book. the full book has the full context. the context shows in each of these moments in the calls he was reading in other people praise calling a machine of cia director he was talking to paul, running the national security agency. he was talking to the joint chiefs. this is a senior military officer working to de-escalate potential crisis. it is clear that these kind of calls between military leaders can be routine.

but our book shows calls between such leaders can be routine, certainly, this moment was anything but routine. it was a moment on a back channel to try to avoid global war. to avoid some miscommunication in the south china sea or a president he believed was in decline acting out in a rash way, a catastrophic way. with the exchange we see him trying to protect the country from having miscommunication or an isolated call from the white house or even the president, causing a missile to be fired or even the nuclear arsenal to be used. >> second question. i talked a bit about bill barr's role in the final couple of months. the book reports instances in which bar was also a break or

a buffer, keeping the president from perhaps doing crazy things. the question is, was this about preserving or restoring his own reputation? was it about in some way to protect the institution, the justice department and indeed the proper role of the executive branch? what can you tell us about bill barr? >> very interesting personality. certainly he wants to leave. he left the trump administration with some people, not with others. what we found most interesting was that he would have private

meetings with trump and in the middle of last year, the election year he went to trump and said i traveled the country. i see more people out there. i see your supporters. you have incredible support there. that mr. president i need to tell you that your supporters think you are and -- i am sorry. [laughter] i should have made that a whole. >> and bob woodward said the real word where on the colbert show the other night and i said oh boy here we go. [laughter] >> it is stunning. barr is trying to give him political advice. you think you are and thing thing political genius but you are not. he is a conservative republican and once trump to

win. when he sees the whole administration, there really isn't epic collapse of the presidency in this. november, december, january when he saw this barr wanted out. he wrote the resignation letter to trump which is really a love letter of all the great things you have done , hoping he can sneak out without getting an negative trump tweet and trump accommodates him, tweets and said bill barr has done a great job. so this is complicated. if you put it all together, all of these people one way or another including penance, including a bar, including millie, including the republican leadership on the hill senator mcconnell, the

house minority leader had disdain for trump. behind-the-scenes they would say things to his face there is a sense when you connect the dots here, that everyone glimpsed his unfitness for office or that he just was not doing the job, trump was here when asked was the job of the president and he said to protect the people. while he did everything but protect the people. his presidency was defined by protecting donald trump. and that now, that peril continues as we say in the book there will be a real

massive fight in the republican party between trump and pence or trump and somebody else for the republican nomination. anyone, you'd know this better than anyone, anyone who tries to predict the outcome or where american politics is going, is wasting their time. anything can happen. >> especially now you talk about protecting the people, the other day i was driving on constitution avenue and looked over to the washington monument and there's nearly 700,000 little white flags that are planted all in rows. it had died from covid-19, you

try to square that with the duty to protect the american people could address role the trump of children in jared kushner during those parentless final days? >> based on our reporting, the presidents of children in particular of bunker trump of bunker trump was actual advisor in the white house, her husband jared kushner the senior advisor as well, there is a scene when a bunker trump goes into the oval office a few times, three times actually i january 6 is the encouragement general keith callaghan others working with president trump and tells her

father to let it go she says let it go. we are careful in our reporting to not lean into anything. we are just telling them what we have confirmed has happened. we are not making a conclusion about whether this even matter to president trump. there's another scene in the book that i think as a reporter is more revealing loucks his long-time adviser a few days after the election says to him essentially what a bunker trump says weeks later on january 6, let it go, let it go, just let this defeat go. go back tomorrow lago enjoy political winter. run the gop from the outside and some kind of informal way pretty brushes off your people don't want me too quit. based on the reporting the conversation was pretty similar on january 6 with his daughter ivanka. jared kushner working on middle eastern issues, his children along with others around the president, many of

the president's critics called them enablers. it's true that time seemed to enable his behavior. but at times are just turning away and not knowing too much to try to corral them. we attacked two sources familiar with them is just an impossible task to do anything but just nod and go along with what's happening inside that white house. >> thank you bob. another audience question, do you think trump, in his heart of hearts really believes the election was stolen from him? [laughter] >> it is a great question. i wonder how you tap into trump's heart of hearts. he would not talk to us for this book. although last year i interviewed him for ten hours. he was not happy with the last book, rage, about who he failed to protect the people

from the coronavirus when he was given intelligence warnings. what, as reporters, you quickly learn you want to describe events, and behavior. what is sad and what seems to be the motive? the motive is something you never get the full clarity on. what is trump up to? is he rational enough to know the election was not stolen? don't know. i think he's one of these people who believes certain things, even if there is not evidence and talks himself into a belief. it's easy to cross that threshold of belief to

delusion. i think if you gave him sodium pedophile, the truth serum i will say it would take a lot of the drug to figure out what he really, what is going on here. but that is the problem and the peril, i got to know him very well. bob costa in 2015, 2016 was often the only one on the trump campaign plane wasn't even the campaign at that point. you can try to get the facts about what happened. but what this is ops absolutely about is maybe trump secretly has a psychiatrist or maybe trump will have a psychiatrist in the latter years of his life.

at least he will get clarity on what happened. the point for people in our business is that we have to find some way to be as factual as possible, to not get caught in the political storm and make political judgments. and tried to invite people into this a wonderful opportunity to see what really happened. and what really happened, was a giant surprise to bob costa and myself. in the summary is, it remains big wrecks really quick one noticing that so revealing right after the election president trump calls up kellyanne conway his longtime advisor and said how did we lose to that guy, biting, how

did that happen how did we lose? so for a fleeting moment he's privately acknowledging that he did lose he lost to biden. but in that same. he's getting call after call from giuliani people on the right in congress and it was stolen, it was . in that same. talking to conway and others in gosh i can't believe i lost how did we lose to that guy? he starts to sit maybe it was stolen, it was stolen that begins the drumbeat that fuels this entire transition. >> fascinating. another question, basically was the cabinet ever close to considering the 25th amendment or some way of believing in chan relieving president trump of his powers customer. >> know the standard is the president disabled?

pence as vice president would be the one who would have to lead the charge on this. he steadfastly refused to do it. coming out of this experience and hopefully there can be lessons learned. as the 25th amendment sufficient for dealing with a problem like donald trump? and the second issue is, some experts and knowledgeable people about nuclear weapons have said do we have a system that really makes sense? do we have control of nuclear weapons? , i don't think he was going to start a nuclear war. if we got into some sort of military action with the

chinese we use a small tactical nuclear weapon all the sudden we would be on this perilous escalation of the latter that would us to armageddon. it was a dangerous. and the mechanisms of the 25th amendment state mechanism and procedures control nuclear weapons, there is lot of work and a lot of examination that needs to be done in our view from our reporting. >> one last question. it is about president biden. an audience member has asked and you hear on some news channels about the question of whether he is being protected

by his handlers from tough questions. if he is being cosseted away from the presidency and protected, overprotected in that way. do you get any sense of that in your reporting on the biden? >> our reporting shows there are some around president biden, they call it the wall. this effect of trying to keep him from interviews. he did not choose to participate in this book. he did not sit for an interview. we know in the back of the book. but what is interesting in our reporting about that question is that president biden's closest friends and advisors know he has a career being

candid at times, being a little sharp. and so on the right some time to see coverage of this aspect of the book on the wall around biden is some kind of way of cocooning him from tough questions. but when you look at the book in the context, there's a whole section of president biden really seeing in the eyes of his advisers and friends a little prickly at times. to sharp with the tongue. there is a hope to keep this politician, who has so much political popularity now in his own party, who has the power of the presidency from meandering into a moment or a controversy. you saw it early on in this administration powering to the 1.9 chilling dollar rescue, dealing with the virus. you sell a politician in biden who largely averted controversies early on in gaffe type moments. eventually there been a couple.

they have been scattered and few. that shows impart his own discipline. not so much a wall around it but biden himself different time in his life adjusting his own political approach. cookson taking one final question. and actually i'm going to answer the question for the question is how is all this amazing information obtained? and i can answer that question. it was obtained by reporting, old fashion shoe leather reporting that bob woodward has done for his whole career. and so that is where it came from, this is not an exercise in thumbsucking. it is reporting and i might add it is a fabulous eye-opening historical

reporting. it was a privilege to share this hour with you from casa congratulations on the book and i hope everybody it, back to you. >> great moderating and bob woodward and bob costa is an epic book about epic times. we do end it on such an ominous note. we will not be able to say we weren't warned if the peril does later somehow and brings us down. everyone watching, thanks for tuning in. a reminder in the chapter : you can find a link for purchasing copies of peril. from all of us here politics and prose, stay well, and well read. >> here's a look at some of the best-selling nonfiction books according to amazon, tapping this just published report by the "washington post" bob woodward and robert

costa on the transition between the trump invited in ministration and peril. cnn's anderson cooper and historian katherine howe's history of mr. cooper's mother's family. the vanderbilts. once one of the wealthiest families in the country. after that radio host mark levine argues in his latest book american marxism that marxist ideology as american institutions and threatens the constitution right next is james breaking bad habits. look at some of amazon's best-selling nonfiction books the body keeps the score. look at how trauma affects our brains and bodies. : :