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tv   Gloria Steinem Lawmakers Testify on Abortion Laws - Part 2  CSPAN  October 4, 2021 8:57am-1:08pm EDT

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[indiscernible] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
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>> now i would like to introduce our second panel of witnesses. our first witness today is gloria steinem who is a longtime feminist who has dedicated her life to protecting women's rights. she brings a unique perspective, having worked for voters for choice and advocated for the right to an abortion, even
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before the roe v. wade decision. then we'll hear from melissa murray who is a professor of law at new m york university. next we'll hear from doctor isabelle scope who is a texas-based ob/gyn. next we'll hear from loretta ross who is the cofounder of the reproductive justice movement and is an associate professor of the study of women and gender at smith college. next we'll hear from doctor ghazaleh moayedi who is also a texas-based ob/gyn and is a board member of physicians for protective, for reproductive health. finally, we'll hear from maleeha aziz who is a community organizer with the texas equal access fund.
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the witnesses will be unmuted so that we can swear them in. please raise your right hands. [witnesses were sworn in] >> i swear. >> let the record show that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. .. the affirmative. with that, ms. gloria steinem, you are recognized for your testimony. ms. steinem: thank you so much for inviting me to be here today. i accepted this invitation because i felt i'm on >> ae few people old enough t remember how bad it was when abortion was illegal. that's why what's happening in texas is not only a local issue or a women's issue, it's a step
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against democracy which allows us to control our own bodies and our own voices. remember when hitler was elected, and he was elected his very official elected act was to padlock the family planning clinics and declare abortion a crime against the state. mussolini did exactly the same thing because they knew at that controlling reproduction and nationallizing women's bodies is the first step in a controlling state, in an all controlling state. the huge majority of american women stand for democracy and in opposition to texas senate's bill 8. we do not want to have our bodies nationallized. otherwise we will be very close to turning back the clock to
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the days of the 1950's when one in three women had an illegal and a dangerous abortion. what were those days like? well, you know, i was there and i can tell you, as many older women can, they were filled with danger for women and guilt for both women and men. it was a time when one in three or four women needed an abortion at some time in their hives and so had to enter into a criminal underground without even the most basic medical safeguards or protections from sexual exploitation by the doctors themselves. in the 1950's i lived this situation which was true in england. he was working as a waitress in london, i had left an
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engagement to a very nice man at home we both knew, i think, that marriage would not be right thing for us, and i was awaiting a visa for that trip to india. that fellowship was to be my bridge to a different life, yet, i also had realized that i was pregnant. after what seemed to be an eternity of confusion and fear, i found a very kind and brave english doctor who was willing to help me by using a loophole in the law that allowed an abortion if he signed a statement saying that pregnancy was dangerous to my physical or mental health. and he said to me, but you must promise me two things, you must never tell anyone my name and you must do what you want to do with your life. i'm sure that man is no longer with us and has not been for many years, yet, i am greatful
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to him to this day and i dedicated a book to him. now, in this country, some many want to declare a fertilized egg to be a legal person. thus not only criminalizing abortion, but nationallizing women's bodies throughout our child bearing years by establishing a direct relationship between the government and a fertilized egg. indeed, the law's already in existence deprive four women who must depend on the government for health care, young women without parental or judicial permission, and even women in the u.s. military, all deprived of the reproductive rights available to other women. many of them are already the victims of illegal and unsafe abortions that have become their only recourse. in the 1950's, the fact that i
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could be helped was all that was significant. i couldn't have, not had the same safe and legal abortion if i'd stayed in the united states where draconian anti-abortion laws now threatened again for causing even more deaths than in england. even so, i could afford to find a way out, as most women could not. what would have a return to the dark days of u.s. history mean? i remember women who died from septic abortions, children who were motherless who wanted no more children than they could afford to care for. already the anti-abortion right wing have created martyrs of rosie jimenez who died, the first of many killed by the hyde amendment that denied medicaid funding for abortion,
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or becky belle who died in 1988, the first of many young women to be killed by the parental consent laws that caused her to seek an illegal abortion rather than disappoint a loving family. standing up for reproductive justice in texas is not only standing up for women, it is very simply, standing up for democracy. without decision making power over our own bodies, there is no democracy. we cannot, we must not nationallize women's bodies. we must let each woman make this decision for herself. thank you. >> thank you. professor murray. you are now recognized for your testimony, professor murray. >> thank you, chairwoman maloney, ranking member comar, and i appreciate appearing before you on the crisis in
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abortion access in our country. i'm melissa murray, professor of law at new york's university school of law i teach constitutional law and family law and reproductive law and i was at the professor of law at university of california berkley where i taught for 12 years and served as faculty director on reproductive rights and interim dean of the law school. in 1973 roe versus wade the united states supreme court recognized that the 14th amendment guarantee of liberty, protects a woman whether to bear or beget a child. since then the supreme court consistently guarantees liberty of equality. in so doing the court has made clear that states may not ban
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abortion before viability, or restrict abortion in ways that are unduly burdensome, more precisely, states may not enact legislation that has the purpose off effects of placing a substantial obstacle in the path of a person seeking abortion. still, despite the precedence, state legislatures have continued to test the constitution's limits by enacting increasingly restrictive abortion laws. in the previous decade, the anti-abortion movement sought to legislate abortion out of existence through piecemeal attack to gut it so that it's essentially meaningless. however changeses in the composition of the united states supreme court and the lower federal court had emboldened an even more aggressive and extreme agenda. those responsible for those laws have made their intentions clear, no longer content to chip away at the abortion
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rights piecemeal legislation, the most recent laws are obvious provocation to designed to relitigate and ultimately overturn roe versus wade and now they have their chance and embracing it. in december the supreme court will hear dobbs versus jackson women's organization, a challenge to mississippi hd-1510 which bans abortion after 15 weeks in defiance of longstanding constitutional precedence, abortion before viability. and not only to uphold the unconstitutional ban, it invites the court to overturn roe versus wade and planned parenthood versus casey. the supreme court's recent treatment of a petition involving sb-8, texas abortion law, noting the laws proceedal
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irregularities. five justices set aside nearly five decades worth of precedent allowing the ban to take fact and effectively overturn the legal right to abortion in texas. today marks the 30th day that people in texas have woken up with fewer constitutional rights than others in the country. no matter what the supreme court does we will not be able to erase how the actions failed texans and our constitution. roe is deeply woven into our country's fabric. people have firmly supported the fundamental right to abortion for decades and have relied on roe's protections in their lives. if the court tugs at the threads that undergird roe, the impact would not be to abortion rights, it would be a raining of rights that like roe rests on constitutional protections for liberty and equality. the right to marry the person of one's choice.
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the right of parents to raise the children in the manner of their choosing, the right to pro create. if roe falls, it will endanger these rights as well. and put at serious risk our country's notion of the rule of law, the legitimacy of the judiciary and the principle of deference to longstanding press dent n conclusion i hope that as you consider ways to support and protect the constitutional right to abortion you will keep these urgent threats to the rule of law in mind, as well as the community's, who are most harmed by them, thank you. >> thanks. thank you, dr. scott you are now recognized for your testimony. we can't hear you. turn your mic on. >> thank you.
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madam chairwoman and members of the committee, i am a doctor board certified from san antonio, i've delivered over 5,000 babies, making a tremendous impact on lives surrounding them although many were not intentionally conceived. the texas heartbeat act has reminded us of an inconvenient fact, a month after being conceived, developing a heartbeat. the supreme court could not resolve the question whether this is a life. today we cannot plead ignorance. we've all seen ultrasounds, pictures of the unborn demonstrating he is just like us only smaller and more in need of our care. the abortion debate has been obscured by euphemisms that allow us to mask the horror of the action, we have created a
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class of humans considered unworthy of life on their own merits, valuable only if someone else desires them. this is the definition of genocide. we need to reexamine this as a scientific and human rights issue, not through the lens of political partisanship, or social engineering. the women's health protection act seeks to codify roe. do you know what roe does, roe allows abortion at anytime in pregnancy if it can be justified in benefitting health of the woman. health is brad broadly defined uncompassing almost every stated reason for abortion. this legislation will hurt not protect women because maternal mortality is 76 times higher after an abortion at five months, as compared to two. researchers an i fill -- affiliated publishing papers
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reassuring us that abortion is safe, but better quality, international linkage studies demonstrates frequent complications after abortion. we did not believe the tobacco tri is when it told us their product is safe. shouldn't we skeptical of similar claims from the abortion industry? about 86,000 abortions occur yearly after the first trimester when the unborn human might feel pain and about 11,000 occur after he can survive separated from his mother. we're only one of seven countries world with wide that will allow elective abortion after viability even though two-thirds of americans support-- leading to hem imagine, infection and even death. i will never forget a young hispanic mother clinging to my hand in the icu, pleading with me not to let her die, as her
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body succumbed to overwhelming sepsis to late term abortion after roe. substance pregnancies are at risk if there's surgical detachment. and emotional harm to some women leading to anxiety, depression, substance abuse and suicide. i've seen many women coerced into abortion. a young black patient tearfully recalled how her mother forced her to undergo an abortion,at five months gestation. and now pregnant, her boyfriend said she couldn't return home unless she had an abortion. and this number reaches 67% in the black community. the narrative of her body, her choice led many men to believe
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bearing a child belongs to the women alone. in addition to my full-time work as ob-gyn, i'm the medical director for four centers, providing ultrasound, and women in crisis pregnancies. any women can in san antonio provides free mental health care ab and sources in houston and austin, full women's health care and counseling to provide strong relationships and healthy sexual behavior. abortion is not a choice to be celebrated, but a decision to be grieved. children are not a burden to be disposed of, but a beautiful addition to the lives of a family and society. our heroes are people who persevere in adversity. bearing and raising children is not easy, but without this important work a society cannot endure. let us give motherhood the support and respect is deserves and top promoting the destruction of innocent human
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life. thank you. >> thank you. ms. ross, you're now recognized for your testimony, ms. ross. >> please unmute, ms. ross. >> thank you for inviting me and hearing me out today. i don't have written testimony because i feel the need to speak from my heart because my story disproves many of the theories that abortion opponent like to talk about. in 1968 i was pregnant in texas at 14 years old through incest from a married cousin who was 27 years old who instead of baby-sitting me thought it was a good idea to get me drunk so he could have sex with me. in 1968 i didn't have any
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options. my only choice was whether to have that baby and give him up for adoption. i found once i had my child i couldn't go through with the adoption. it's not as easy as people try to say it is. so for the next 30 years i ended up co-parenting with my rapist and although i fiercely loved my son, i hated his circumstances and that complicated what my child should have received unconditional love from his mother. because as he grew up and grew to resemble his father, it was always there what it happened to me. i was lucky enough two years later to receive a full scholarship to howard university to major in chemistry and physics. and when i became pregnant while at howard university, i was also lucky enough to be
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able to access a legal and safe abortion at washington hospital center. and that abortion kept me from becoming a teen mother with three children, because i was pregnant with twins at the age of 16. so i didn't have any choice whether to have sex, whether to have a child, and it was so hard to raise that child born of rape and incest, and so, i really don't think it should be more difficult 53 years later for a child in texas than it was for me in 1968. i really don't think so. and now i'm wondering, is it a matter of people that don't know our stories or is it that they don't care? because 50 years of telling our stories doesn't seem to change
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the hard heart of people who haven't been through what we've been through. and i'm wondering what does it take? so in 1994, because of what i had been through, i was one of 12 black women who created the theory of reproductive justice because we needed more than what either the pre-choice or the pro-life movement offered us, which is the right to have the children that we want to have, the right not to have the children that we don't want to have, but most importantly, the right to raise those children in safe and healthy environments because nobody focuses as much as we need on what happens to the children once they're born. and so we have used this framework, we have poplized it around the country. i am so honored and privileged to be able to tell my choir,
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but i'm wondering if merely telling my story and all of our stories is enough because if you don't care, i don't know what it takes to reach your heart, but i can tell you, that theory of rape and incest just have the baby and give them up for adoption and you know, accept that your life will be forever changed, if you have not lived that life, then i wonder if you really know what you're talking about. and i was very glad that i had both my son, but i also had a choice two years later whether or not i would be become a mother of three children and sabotage the rest of my life, but mostly not be able to provide for the child i already had because he became the most important thing to me and i
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celebrate his life by the fact that i had choices. so thank you all for listening to me. i want you all to talk about what it is really like for people who don't have choices who live in texas, who shouldn't have to go through what i went through in san antonio. thank you. >> thank you, professor ross. thank you and, doctor, you are now recognized for five minutes. good morning, chairwoman mo lony, ranking member, and the members of the committee. i'm a board certified obgnn, a mom, a texan and apportion -- abortion provider. i'm in hawaii and texas
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providing abortion care, i'm the same physician with expert care and training i'm compelled by texas to provide substandard care for patients in dallas compared to honolulu. america marie, 18 weeks pregnant living in dallas. marie is seeking an abortion prior to sb-8 enacted. and she like most people who have abortions is already a parent and resolute in her abortion decision. although marie is confident and informed about abortion, ma lee is forced to endure multiple harmful restrictions. first, texas has a law that requires abortion after 16 weeks to be provided in an ambulatory surgical center, proven to be medically unnecessary and does nothing to improve quality or safety. by contrast, hawaii has no such law restricting where abortion care can be provided. if marie were able to make an appointment at one of our two
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surgical centers in dallas, she cannot have her abortion that day. by texas law she must make an appointment to see me, a physician, in advance of her procedure. as her physician, i am then compelled to force marie into a medically unnecessary ultrasound. i'm compelled to force marie to look at and listen to the ultrasound. i'm compelled to force marie to hear a description of the ultrasound. i'm compelled to force marie to hear medically inaccurate state mandated scripts and an after all of this, marie cannot have her abortion, she must return 24 hours later because i'm compelled to force her to wait even though it's medically unnecessary and goes against by my better judgment as a physician and if one of my colleagues is providing care the next day instead of me, marie must wait longer because texas forces people to have an adorgs from--
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abortion from the same physician who provided the ultrasound. in hawaii marie could have the abortion in the morning and go home in the afternoon. in hawaii unless marine is a member of the military or federal employee, her health insurance or her medicaid would cover her costs. if she were living in hawaii marie would not have to forego, food, rent or child care to access her abortion in texas marie will. today marie can't get her abortion in dallas. the next clinic is oklahoma city, a one month waiting list for appointments in the week priors to sb-8 was in effect. by the time she would schedule the appointment, unable to get it into oklahoma. now we're moving in concentric circles, further and further away from her home and further and further away from hope. this is exactly what sb-8
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intends to do, deny people the ability to have an abortion and this is where we are today. abortion care has almost completely stopped in our state. om a small fraction of people are able to get the care in clinics. they're working to care for everyone for the limits and everyone else out of the state for care yet we know not everyone will be able to leave the state. the impacts of this law is devastating, it is terrifying, not only for people with undesired pregnancies seeking abortion care or anyone highly desired pregnancy that has complicated. health care providers are confused. they're allowed to treat an ectopic pregnancy or miscarriage, they're worried they will have to delay life saving care for people very sick. they're worried about the possible chronic conditions that can worsen in pregnancy,
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but not worsen enough to warrant an exception under this law. and sb-8 has not only caused a near total abortion ban in texas, it's made it extremely dangerous to be pregnant in texas. where our maternal morbidity and mortality rate is unconscionaby high. texas deserves better. i know firsthand that abortions save lives for thousands of people i've cared for, abortion is a blessing, abortion is an act of love, abortion is freedom. we need federal protection now. we need laws that he will evaluate science and evidence and autonomy of people enacting care. the women's health protection act is an important and critical step, not enough. we need people to be protected and burdened to live their healthiest lives, but most of all we need you to not forget
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about us, the people in texas and our restrictive states trying our best to care for ourselves and our families and communities midst efforts to control our bodies and lives, thank you. >> thank you. >> you are now recognized for five minutes. >> good morning distinguished members. committee. first i want to thank congress woman for sharing their abortion stories on the panel prior to this one. their leadership particularly in this legislative body is an inspiration to me. my name is marie, i am a mother, a survivor of sexual assault, and proud abortion story teller to testify and a commune organizer for the texas equal access fund. before sb-8 officially became the law things were already
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dismal, but now they have become a nightmare. abortion funds have been working around the clock to help people access abortions with funding assistance, travel support, and more. abortion funds exist to counter the discriminatory classes and racist restrictions on abortion like the hyde amendment and sb-8. the authors of sb-8 and the despicable law made it clear they do not care about our physical well-being, they're only interested in controlling our bodies. as a survivor i know it all too well and it fills me with rage. i remember feeling helpless and disgusted by my own body for a very long time. sometimes i still do. and i'm so thankful that i did not become pregnant by my rapist. i am angry that we survivors
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must publicly share our trauma to make legislators relize the depravity of this law. and we hear panic and anxious calls from clients who are terrified they will be forced to remain pregnant. over 80% of our clients learn about their pregnancy after eight weeks gestation, that's two weeks beyond the limit imposed by sb-8 forcing them to travel out of state for care. texas does not guarantee -- that means those who call case lines for support are not able to earn a wage if they miss work for a multi-day medical appointment. i can relate to what our clients are going through. nearly eight years ago, i needed an abortion, too. i was a recent immigrant to the united states from pakistan. i was a college student, navigating a new country,
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culture and legal system, after affording housing and food i did not have a lot of money left over. like many people searching for abortion clinics and needing an ultrasound, i ended up at a fake clinic also known as a crisis pregnancy center. despite lab coats, they were not medical professionals, and christian images were all over the walls. i'm muslim and through a christian lens. and-- i panicked and a supportive family member covered the abortion and the costs my partner and i took the flight to planned parenthood and i remember what strangers yelled at me and i had to endure twice
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and i had to wait 24 hours before i could could have my abortion. i'm eternally grateful that my provider calmly reminded me, i know what's best for my body. and my family and friends stayed with me and i felt cared for and love when anyone should feel when they're ill or an abortion, my procedure, pain medication flight and transportation cost nearly $2,000. with federal policies like the hyde amendment and state laws that ban private insurance from covering abortion procedures we are left to pay for all of these costs out of pocket, despite having health insurance. a year after the birth of my daughter, i recognized the symptoms of a severe pregnancy sickness i have experienced with all of my pregnancies. due to hg i was physically unable to care for or spend time with the baby chose to
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have and it broke my spirit. my husband is active duty military, and lives four hours away during the week. we decided that abortion was the best decision for our family. the love i have for maya, my daughter, made my second abortion the easiest decision that i have ever made. and this time, i knew abortion pills were legal and safe in texas. and my abortion helped me create my family i have now and for that, i will forever be grateful. doing so also made me a better mother because i chose motherhood on my terms. i welcomed it with open arms. members of congress, i sit here before you today to ask you to show up for those of us who have had abortions and provide abortions. no one should be afraid of seeking health care. no one should be criminally punished for wanting to end their pregnancy and no one
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should fear asking a loved one for support at a time of need. as we testify, everyone loves someone who has had an abortion. i hope that you listen to my story and the stories of countless others. the actions that you take impact your constituents, and loved ones who have had abortions. thank you for listening. >> thank you. i thank all the panelists and i now recognize myself for five minutes of questions. since i've been in congress we have never had pro choice majorities until this year. now we have a pro choice majority in both chambers, including more than 100 democratic women. the american people are solidly on the side of choice with four and five people supporting legal abortion, despite the strong support for abortion rights, right now anti-choice
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state legislators are trying to bull doze the right to abortion right into the ground and we cannot let that happen and thank you for being here today. you spoke about your own abortion and in the early 1970's before roe vs wade, you pioneered the fight for reproductive rights. but what is happening today, puts these five decades of progress at risk. since roe vs wade has the right to abortion ever been under greater risk than it is now? and than it is today? >> you need to unmute, ms. steinem. >> i do not remember any time at greater risk and i am sorry
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to say that i believe it is also connected to a racial bias in this country, because we are at a point when we are about to become a majority people of color country, which seems to me a great event in a way. we're going to have better relationships with other countries in the world, understand differences better, but i think the -- there is a profoundly racist resistance to the continuation of the right to safe and legal abortion and we see that in the nature of the resistors and the nature of their politics. it is absolutely fundamental that we control our own bodies. there is no democracy without that. we're fighting for the very
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basics of democracy. >> thank you. professor murray, one of the most extreme abortion bans in history. texas senate bill 8 took place after the supreme court refused to block it and this december, the supreme court will hear oral arguments in the case examining mississippi's 15-week abortion ban. this is a direct challenge to roe vs wade, which established the constitutional right to abortion. professor murray, how real is the possibility that roe will fall in the coming months? and what will happen on the state level if it does? professor murray? >> thank you for the question, chairwoman maloney? i think it's clear given the supreme court actions in the order, sb-8, texas
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unconstitutional six week ban on abortion, there is certainly majority on the court receptive to overruling roe and squarely presented by mississippi in the brief to the court. you could remove the viability of the salient marker in the court's jurisprudence. the bottom line is the same, ritz in the country will be imperilled. it would return to the state and the country would be a patch work where some would have abysmal access to reproductive health care and some would not. poor women, lgbtq women, women who live in rural areas, if the court decides that viability is no longer a salient concept and allegedly saved roe, what we'll have is a desiccated and hollowed out right to abortion in which the states will begin to pass ever more restrictive,
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whether a 12 week is permissible, a six week. and the fact that we're can go six week, the window what is reasonable in terms of abortion restrictions has entirely shifted. >> thank you. professor ross, you are one of the original founders of the reproductive justice movement. if roe falls, what will it mean for people seeking abortion care, particularly those for whom care has been historically pushed out of reach? professor ross? >> what it will mean is that people will have fewer choices than i had even when i was a teenager in texas, that they will become desperate. my parents considered taking me to texas and seeing if i could get an abortion there, but they deemed it wasn't safe, and instead they stuck me in a home, which is my decision,
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too, for unwed mothers in san antonio near trinity university the plan was for me to give my son up for adoption and i chose to keep him. and a lot of people think that because i kept my son born of rape and incest, that that is why abortion should be illegal or outlawed, just because i love my child doesn't mean awanted to be raped or to happen, i think it will be hard on women in texas, but i have to say grass roots pre productive grass roots activist who believes abortion is a human right, we'll do whatever we can for the women's rights and lived experiences, and have every means at our disposal to make sure that women don't die because people don't care. we care. >> thank you for being here today. the gentleman from texas, now
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recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chair. the toughest discussions we have up here are the ones for sure where the rights of people we represent seem to be in conflict, and understandably there's no shortage of deep emotion surrounding this debate and especially for the women who through no-fault of their own have found themselves the victims of despicable and horrible acts. our declaration of independence talks about the inalienable rights that we have as people, among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. and it's important that our founders recognize that these rights are not a grant from government, but they were a gift from god. they preceded our government and therefore we don't have a right as a federal government to limit them.
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when we look at that, we realized we can't have liberty, we can't have pursuit of happiness without the right to life. roe vs wade was decided in 1973 and of course, much has changed in the last nearly 50 years, we know a whole lot more than we did then. nearly 50 years of scientific advancement have unveiled to us the amazing miracle of the development of a child. i asked my mom, actually if she had an ultrasound picture of me and she said, no, and that's pretty common for anyone who had-- who was born when i was born right around the time when roe vs wade was decided. ultrasounds were not very common, not much we knew what was going on, but much happened since then and we have 40 ultrasounds where week see facial features, a child's smile, react to external stimulus, a heartbeat detected as early as six weeks.
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in the early '70s when roe vs wade was discussed, abortion activists would call it a blob of tissue or an appendage of a sort and now we know so so much more about it. according to the american college of pediatricians and the association of american physicians and surgeons they said we now know that the unborn child is a living human being, a rapidly developing from the moment of conception and capable of feeling pain long before viability. even in the pre-viability period, the child's heartbeat, the child can express himself or herself through smiling and other actions and respond to the environment outside the womb. in short, as basic embreology textbooks life begins at fertization, a fact that surprises no one in the medical profession. dr. scott, could you speak to the development of a child who
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has not been born yet? is it fair to consider still a blob of tissue or what do we know know that we didn't know back in is the 1973? >> well, we have beautiful ultrasound that tell us so much. and in fact, the-- some people want to call it fetal cardiac activity instead of a heartbeat, but the blood vessels exist from about the 16th day after conception. the fetal blood cells are already in place by about 21 days when that heartbeat-- when the electrical activity that generates the heartbeat is in place so the whole system is there, and it's running that early within just a few weeks the-- we can see facial features, we can see arms, legs, by nine to 10 weeks, the baby has fingerprints and fingernails.
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at 10 weeks, ultrasound tells us, if that baby is going to be left-handed or right-handed, we can see a strong preference for sucking one thumb over the other and this happens in the first trimester. it is beautiful and it's widely available to every american to look on youtube and just see how much they look like us at such an early gestational age. >> what about a pre-born baby's ability to feel pain, what do we know now that we didn't know in 1973? >> for a long time people, researchers in the field thought that it was necessary to have a completely formed cerebral cortex to feel pain, but we now know that the sensory receptors begin at seven weeks, that the spinal reflex arc, which allows withdrawal begins at 10 weeks, a fetus at about 16 weeks is
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undergoing amniocentesis and accidentally stuck with a needle will do all the things that we would do if we feel pain. it will withdraw from the sensation, heartbeat goes up, release stress hormones, by 20 weeks, thalamus, the lower part of the brain is fully functional and connected to the extremities and experiments in infants who don't have complete development of the cerebral cortex show that they show pain. we can see it on their faces. when fetal surgery is performed at as young as 18 weeks, anesthesiologist treats the fetus as a specific patient. not just to the mother, but specifically to the fetus to help the fetus not feel pain during that surgery.
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so we certainly, by the time of viability, at around 22 weeks, we know that unborn human being feels pain and the dismemberment abortion procedure used most commonly at that gestational age has got to result in excruciating pain to a member of our species. >> the time expired. and now recognized for five minutes, ms. norton. >> thank you very much, madam chair, for this compelling hearing. before i get to my main questions for the witnesses, i want to point out how uniquely vulnerable the reproductive rights of the women i represent in the district of columbia are, at least until statehood. because congress has control
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over the district's local affairs. currently congress prohibits the district of spending its own local funds on abortion services for low income women, including-- i'm sorry, even though 15 states use their own funds for this purpose. do you to republican congresses could even create a texas style bounty law in d.c. and if the supreme court overturns roe, congress could ban abortion in the district of columbia. it is more than ever to make the district a 51st state. for nearly ooh 50 years now the court upheld the right to abortion care, still many states have thought to undermine this constitutional right, including by enacting trigger bans. and that's going to be the basis of my question.
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these bans would immediately take effect in the event roe falls, the center for reproductive rights estimates that if roe were to fall 24 states would likely take action to ban abortion. that includes 30 states where so-called trigger bans have been enacted. meaning that the abortion would be immediately outlawed if roe is over turned by the supreme court. professor murray, could you explain how these trigger bans work? and what that would mean for abortion access in these 11 states. >> thank you, representative norton trigger bans are laws that are enacted in many of the states that basically specify in the event that the supreme court overturns roe versus wade the state will immediately
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recriminalize abortion within the borders and that would turn back swaths of the united states into abortion-free zones and turn women living in those states into reproductive refugees having to go to other states to find reproductive care. and the refugee crisis at the border, we will developing a different crisis in our own borders. >> thank you, professor ross, you are one of the founding thought leaders of the reproductive justice movement, which was brought -- which has broadened our understanding of how abortion restrictions disproportionally harm certain communities. how would banning abortion further entrench longstanding
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health inequities, particularly for communities of color? >> thank you for the question. as we found out through covid people who already had inadequate health care, who already had limited life choices found their lives made worse when they have to deal with an unexpected health crisis and particular will i when they have to deal with an unplanned pregnancy, so for black women, latino women, indigenous women, disabled people, people marginalized and underserved by the existing health care system, they will find their lives made worse. they will find that they have fewer options and they will find that they have to go through even more extraordinary hardships to take care of the children that they already have, to find to keep a job that they're marginalized at
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and i find that people will be extraordinarily desperate when they have to choose between paying their rent or buying food or getting an abortion, or taking care of the children you already have. we are mothers, we do whatever is necessary, to take care of our children and we're trying to do that. and sometimes i remember with my own child, it meant going without food so my baby could eat. and so, these are the things that people are asking us to dive deeper into. and it's countless -- i don't know why 50 years later i'm fighting against human rights violators. i don't know why, but i continue to do so. >> thank you very much. my time has expired. thank you, the gentle leader yields back. the gentleman from from georgia is recognized for five minutes. thank you, maed madam chair,
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once again we find ourselves dealing with something we have nothing to have jurisdiction here. and democrats are trying to convince us abortion is a constitutional right. arguably you've got as much constitutional right to kill an unborn baby as you do your neighbor. it is the preamble of our constitution that states clearly that the purpose of our constitution is to secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity, it's not to kill the unborn, but secure the blessings of liberty for them. and yet, here we are, again, madam chair, we have time and again, written letters and made requests for oversight of the executive branch. we have serious issues in this
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country, that we have not been able to have hearings on from the withdrawal in afghanistan to the southern border where we have covid coming across the borderings drugs, human trafficking, criminals, terrorists and who knows what else and still no hearings to address those issues. inflation, on and on and on. and unless we deal with the disastrous decisions of this horrendous and the horrendous failures of this administration, those things are going to continue in our country. but here we are dealing with abortion and i would just say, as a pastor, i've dealt with this for over 25 years. i am unapoll getically pro-life. i've spoken, marched, voted, listened, prayed on this issue for decades. i appreciate my colleagues for her incredible testimony earlier this morning, and i have to say, i was shocked last
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week as my colleagues on the other side of the aisle voted against the protection of a baby born alive from a botched abortion. yet, we are told the baby is somehow the mother's body. i wonder if that baby lying on the table there is consider the woman's body. and that it's okay to kill that baby. and my colleagues voted in that direction last week. i have seen over and over and over for decades, and prayed with and ministered to and helped women suffering emotionally and physically with the results of abortion and i believe this needs to be a major topic like wise discussed here our federal government should not be in the business of expanding abortions, but in limiting it and so, from that dr. skop, i want to thank you for being here, your testimony was incredible. from your professional and
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scientific opinion perspective, is it correct to refer to the baby in the womb as the woman as body? >> thank you, congressman, the baby has its own genetic makeup half of which comes from his mother and half from his father. he has-- he is dependent on his mother, and yet, dependency should not be a criteria of who has a right to live and who must may be killed because many-- i mean, a newborn infant clearly is dependent. human beings are very, very dependent for the early part of their lives unlike many animals, we need our mothers to care for us, to bring us to birth, and then to care for us even afterwards. so clearly he is although part of the body-- or in the body, he is no more a part of woman's body than a car
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in the garage is a consistent feature of the garage. >> okay. and listen, dependency, like saying if a toddler fell in a swimmer pool because it's dependent upon someone else to safe it, it's not of value and we let it drown. it's the same-- we could go down that path. the dependency is not the issue, it's a separate individual in the womb. can you tell us how many women die each other from abortion procedure complications? do you have any idea? >> i cannot tell you that because our country has very, very poor data on deaths related to abortion. there are many reasons for this, one is that there's really no clear federal mandate to report deaths related to abortion. i'm sure many members of this committee are aware there's a maternity mortality crisis across the board and studies
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have documented that probably between 50 and 75% of even maternal deaths that occur related to childbirth, related to care in a hospital, many of those do not get reported on the death certificate and there are various reasons for that that i probably won't go into, but the c.d.c. primarily draws their data from death certificates and they are ignoring the fact that it is very, very difficult to document on a death certificate a death, for example, if a woman has an abortion and committees suicide out of guilt six weeks later, that will almost never be documented. many abortion providers do not maintain hospital privileges. it is very common, i've seen this in my own profession when i'm taking care of women in the emergency room, for a woman not to return to the abortion
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provider if she has a complication to come to me. many times she's ashamed and she won't even tell me that it was an abortion that led to complication. >> the gentleman's time expired. if you can wrap up. >> thank youments . anyway it's very, very poor data. >> thank you, madam chair. >> the gentleman from virginia, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairwoman and for holding this hearing. and-- >> we heard an exchange about complications and not reported and the data is vague. what do you know about complications and deaths from licensed clinics that provide medically supervised care with respect to abortion? >> thank you for that question. i'd like to first remind all ob-gyn's that the american
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board ob-gyn spreading misinformation can result in information-- >> can i interrupt, did you hear misinformation? >> i did hear misinformation. >> for the record, we did hear misinformation. ... this data is tracked from a clinic level in texas, it is legally required that every day we report to the state who has had abortions and if they have had complications. in fact, the state has passed a new lot that i have to report complications not related to abortion care that might happen 20 yearly -- 20 years later. might have been 20 years later any person's life. >> couldn't one make the opposite argument that as a matter fact, by closing clinics in making it difficult to get illegal abortion which is legal
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in america, actually we are, texas for example, is endangering the lives ofiv women taking a safe clinical procedure in a clinic that is licensed? >> exactly. we don't need to make that argument. it is medical fact. it's a medical fact be we know that when people do not have access to abortion care that maternal morbidity and mortality rates rise and that's a global fact. >> would to be fair in your opinion to say frankly the new texas law is endangering the lives of women? >> yes, sir, that's exactly what i said in my testimony. osed or attempted to impose on abortion providers and facilities where they work? >> we have numerous medically unnecessary laws. that is not my opinion, the national academies of sciences have shown in an unbiased nonpartisan report, that these laws are medically unnecessary
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and harm people. in texas, for example, first of all, a physician must provide abortion care, that we have good evidence you don't need a physician to hand someone a pill or promote -- provide first trimester abortion care. in texas, you have to have a medically unnecessary ultrasound, that has to be provided by the same physician that is going to purport -- provide the abortion. there's no reason these increased safety at all. they have to wait between four hours between the time they get their ultrasound and the time they get there abortion. the same physician has to do it, you have to be at least 18 years old or get parental consent. you need to have an id. you need to be able to access a clinic, we do not have enough planks in our state, if you live along our southern border, that access has been gone for a while. the state restricts me practicing evidence-based care.
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the state does not allow me to provide medication and abortion past 10 weeks, even though we have good evidence that the medication is safe to provide after 10 weeks. the state requires that physically hand the patient the pill, even though all of us, physician or not connote you do not need a physician to give you a pill. >> let me interrupt you. what you just described sounds like an overregulated regime in texas, making it very difficult for a woman to access legal medical care with respect to abortion. i find it ironic that same people that say that wearing a mask compromises my personal autonomy have no compunction about imposing on women in this country and in the state of texas. some of the most restrictive legislation governing this most sacred autonomy, control of your
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own body, the texas law allows vigilantes and gives them bounties, how is that affecting you in your work? i yield, madam chairwoman? >> as i mention come up we have a lot of -- it is basic autonomy, it is difficult to navigate, no one could have imagined something like this would happen? -- something like this would never happen. just because they want the money, and anybody can ring about a frivolous lawsuit against somebody come up family member or friend trying to support them having an abortion. it is ridiculous. abortion says -- abortion is health care, every person
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deserves equitable and fair access to abortion. >> we are back to the wild west in texas. i yield back. >> heals back. the gentleman from arizona is recognized. >> dr. skop, you were just accused of spreading misinformation, would you like to address that comment, please? >> thank congressman come, for the opportunity. i think there is data available to support everything i have said today. i provided references to the committee of what i had said. it is unfortunate that the politicize it politicalization -- i went into care to care for two patients, a woman and her unborn child.
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i continue, because in my conscience i cannot do otherwise to advocate for the life and health of both of my patients. that is the right thing to do. >> i agree with you. we are seeing that same discussion with what we claim to be a science. with the covid-19 discussion, as well. the health care provider, we know patient autonomy is the -- all pregnant women us receiving an abortion should be told of the risks, including the impact to future fertility. tiered knowledge, are women being told the by taking this pill it may impact their future fertility, not be able to have children in the future, is that -- can you discuss these ramifications? >> i do not know specifically what is being said in abortion
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clinics. i do know may states have mandated the discussion of complications. the fda mandated discussion of complications as well. what we do know and what i have seen frequently in the er, from women having complications is that it results in complications frequently. studies from europe tell us medical abortions have complications four times as frequently as surgical abortions. very good studies and meta-analyses tell us that between 5% and 8% of women who receive a medical abortion do not pass the tissue completely or hemorrhage and require surgical completion. i do not know how many women understand they have between a1 and 12 or one in 20 chance of a surgery in addition to the pills
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they receive. i think the number of medical abortions and percentage of abortions is going up dramatically, particularly in response to covid. there is a good possibility women understood the high risk of complications, they might opt for surgical abortions instead. the numbers of medical abortions are concerning. additionally, the fda, because of covid, remove the in person requirement for medical abortion dispensing, which means a woman does not need to have an ultrasound to find out how far along she is, i have seen many women who underestimate their gestational age, there must hire -- there are much higher risk to fail if they are advanced gestational age, medical abortion pills do not affect the pregnancy in the tube, women
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have died from that. they do not evaluate rh status, in which case a woman may in a future pregnancy, if she needed the injection and did not get it, she could form an immune response to her future children. 14% of those children, if untreated will be stillborn, half a suffer death or brain injury. there are significant complications that can occur with unsupervised medical abortion. for some reason, the fda is choosing to look the other way on that. >> let me get this right, there is preoperative screening, complications if we don't screen and complications postabortion, based on those screenings or additional facts? >> that is correct. there is a lot that women probably do not now. >> i have limited time. i yield back. >> thank you.
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the gentleman from illinois is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairwoman, i appreciate you holding this important hearing. dr. skop, i have a question for you, sb eight prohibits abortions to the fetus after quote unquote detectable fetal heartbeat, correct? >> correct. >> and you testified in support of sb8 at a march texas state senate hearing, right? >> i was at a state senate hearing, i was testifying particularly about the medical abortion limitations. i may have submitted a written testimony, i do not recall -- >> but you support sb8? >> i support the ability of a state to legislate the perfor r
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ance of abortion -- >> it does not have an exception even in the case of rate, correct? >> that is probably correct. >> it does not have exception even in the case of inset -- in zest- incest? >> correct. >> i have a daughter, one my greatest fears is that she will be raped. if god forbid, your daughter were raped, do you believe that your daughter should be forced to carry the fetus to term? >> i just want to say for the record, the stories i've heard from women today of their abortion, make me very sad. i feel for every woman that has been through that horrendous
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situation and had to make that decision. we are in a world where women do not have to work -- address that decision. in the case of a rape, women generally know they have been raped. a woman can find out -- >> i'm asking you a simple question, even after eight detectable fetal heartbeat out under sb8, if your daughter will raped, do you believe she should be forced to carry the baby to term? >> sb8 is enough time for a woman who has been raped to determine -- >> i am asking after determine -- detectable fetal heartbeat. i'm asking a simple question. at that point, is it your testimony that you believe your daughter should be forced to carry the baby to term, even in
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the case of rape? >> if my daughter were pregnant as a result of rape, that would be sad. >> you are being evasive. this is the hypocrisy which characterizes people like you having an opinion as to how you would treat your own daughter, but forcing other daughters and sisters and women in the state of texas to go through unholy different experience. in texas, they reported more than 14,000 rapes in the state of texas. most experts believe the actual number far surpasses the number of reported rapes. do you believe that after a fetal preppy is detected, there should be any exception for rate or in zest -- rape or incest?
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>> i think a woman has adequate time -- >> after the fetal department -- fetal heartbeat has been ascertained under the statute, it appears you don't believe there should be an exception for rape or incest. that goes directly contrary to what donald trump said, he said i am strongly pro-life with three exceptions, raped, incest, protection of the health of the mother. ronald reagan said texas will work tirelessly to make sure we eliminate all raped. you don't believe sb8 is going to result in the elimination of
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rape in texas, are you? >> of course not. >> madam chair, his time is expired. >> give me an answer. >> the heartbeat indicates an independent human life. as a pro-life physician, who advocates for the fetus as well as the mother, that is he that human life should be allowed to continue. >> unresponsive, thank you. >> the gentlemanly -- yields back. the gentlewoman from north carolina, ms. fox, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairman. i want to thank you for the way you've handled yourself in this hearing. i want to thank dr. skop for being willing to put up with some disrespectful questioning, and a very disrespectful attitude towards you.
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we really appreciate that. thank you very much for doing that. dr. skop, have you seen many examples of premature babies born around 22 to 24 weeks they go on to leave -- lead healthy lives after receiving treatment? as you see in the age of these decrease as science has advanced? >> i have. i have been practicing for 25 years. around the time i started, i think we considered viability the age at which you could likely resuscitate a baby, that he would have a good chance of survival was around 25, 26 weeks. currently, we are seeing babies saved in our hospital at 22 weeks. extraordinarily fragile, extraordinarily sad, heartbreaking for the mothers.
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many times i have seen this in association with eight shortened cervix -- eight shortened cervix , which is associated with abortion, particularly multiple abortions. sadly, women do not know the choice they make today may cause them to have an extremely premature baby who clings to life later. >> do you believe that the age of viability will get younger as we continue to make scientific and medical progress? >> i think it may get a little younger, i think there is going to be a physical constraint at the point at which the of the ally -- alveoli and blood vessels that through the lungs can pass oxygen. there may be a hard limit, it is amazing we are saving so many
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babies just a little over halfway through a pregnancy. >> dr. skop come up in an amicus brief submitted to the supreme court in the jackson case, 375 women shared sworn affidavits how they were injured by second and third trimester late-term abortions. madam chair, i ask unanimous consent to insert and record via amicus brief in the appendix purporting the experience of these women. >> without objection. >> thank you. have you encountered women in your work who have had similar experiences? >> i think the late abortion is exceedingly emotionally traumatic for a woman. she has felt the baby moving, regardless of her circumstances, that has got to be the hardest decision to make. they are very dangerous. i will tell you something else i'm concerned about, coercion.
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if we have abortion without limits, for any reason, in this country, until birth, a woman who is deemed coerced toward a number -- toward an abortion has nine months to fight for the life of her baby. i think many women who have late abortions are women who got tired of saying no, i want to keep my baby. which is terribly tragic. one thing i have seen in texas from the pregnancy centers i work with is that women come in for ultrasounds, and when they see the heartbeat, they are very happy, because they now know that their boyfriend or mother cannot force them into an abortion because it is illegal. the earlier we set limits, the more we are protecting women from that coercion of losing the baby that they want to carry. >> and we see this in a crisis pregnancy centers all over the country.
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dr. skop, i'm going to give you a few more seconds, i know you have corrected the record at least once, since i've been listening, there are many things that have been said today that have not been true. i want to see if you would like to correct any more falsehoods that have been said? >> i must speak to the statement that was made that pro-life people are racist, because we do not want the hyde amendment to be overturned and for the government to pay for abortions of children of color. the flipside that we should be considering is that black women have more abortions the white women, people may not recognize it, but there has got to be a eugenics component here. in the civil rights era of the 1960's, there were approximately 18 million black people in america, approximately 18
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million black babies have been awarded -- aborted.+ it is not racist to want to save those children. >> that is an eloquent statement. we know planned parenthood was begun in order to kill black babies and other children who were unborn that they felt were unfit for this world. it is important people understand the history of planned parenthood. thank you very much, i yield back. >> the gentleman from maryland, mr. raskin is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. women in the united states have a had a constitutional right to abortion it in america -- in the united states since 1973. that is a fact. women have been free to make their own decisions with respect to abortion. this is as it should be, everywoman woman situation is unique.
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-- every woman's situation is unique. some are 19 and become pregnant by raped, or incest. others are impoverished, ill, depressed, emotional or mental crisis and could not contemplate it. every situation is different. deeply personal. real question before us in america today is who is going to decide for the women of america, is it the women of america? or the state legislatures, 69% of whom are men? who is going to make these most private and intimate decisions. i know every member of the committee on the others opposes roe v. wade and right to privacy. i wonder if any of them are willing to defend the details of the new texas law.
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it not only makes it unlawful for women to have an abortion after six weeks, when most women do not know they are pregnant, it deputized as everyone person in the state, including rapists and sexual harassers and insurrectionists and murderers, including snooping and spiteful neighbors, feuding relatives to go out and sue the doctors, nurses, medical personnel and family members who helped their daughter or niece or sister or mother through a health crisis. they can soothe them for $10,000 -- sue them for $10,000 under texas state law today. that is america in the 21st century come up with the constitutional right to privacy under attack. this is our future and our present, the nightmare that the gop wants to deliver to us.
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our friends don't want to speak about the specifics, so i want to ask specifically, every witness here, do you think the law should be changed in america so women and girls were raped can be forced to bear their rapist's child as under the texas law? i will begin with ms. steinem. then ms. aziz, just yes or no. should the lobby changed so that women and girls were raped can be forced to bear their rapist's child. >> is a survivor, no one should have to do that. >> the answer is no, it should not be changed. >> dr. moayedi? >> no. >> thank you.
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dr. skop? >> no, i don't want to see the law changed, i want people to change their hearts and minds >>. > i take it your view is roe v. wade -- we should try to convince people to our point of view about an intensely private decision like this? >> that is why i am here today. >> thank you, professor murray, what about you? >> yes. >> ms. ross? i don't know if she's still here. >> no, my son had a complicated life getting to know his pedophile father. the fact that i had to deal with this man, re-raping me emotionally to raise my child, that is an obvious no. >> ms. ross, i went to ink for
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your testimony, you -- thank you for your testimony, you have made vivid for us what we are talking about here, every woman's situation is different. the supreme court made this a personal decision in the doctrine has changed from the trimester framework, everyone is saying you can have an abortion up to nine months, that arranged but has nothing to do with the law in the united states under roe v. wade or planned parenthood v kc which draws a line of fetal viability, i want to thank every witness seems to agree that the texas law is deeply flawed. if not completely unconstitutional. impinging on the woman's right to choose and compelling her to bear her rapist's or abuser at's or assailant's child against her will.
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that is an outrage and a scandal, totalitarian, let us go back to the right to privacy and have the discussion, that people can add engage with each other and move each other, i think dr. skop -- i think dr. skop to that point. i yield back. >> mr. higgins is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. from my heart, i feel the pain of my fellow americans on both sides of the aisle. we will all answer for our sins. all of us fall short of the glory of god, i am no exception. i have lived in times at rebecca -- in rebellion against god. every sinful act i will kneel before our lord and say over the
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course of my six years, i failed and fallen in ways that bring shame upon my heart and soul. i have been callous and uncaring , i have lacked compassion and broken promises. i have been at times a bad son, and unworthy brother, a failed husband. and forefather. i have lived and thus i have sinned. america is an anointed nation, as such, our republic will move forward according to god's will. our nation will evolve in our saviors on time -- savior's own time. i stand in judgment of no man. as a child of god, i will fight to protect the innocent with every fiber of my being and every part of my spirit.
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ultimately, god's will will imbue itself into american society, as has been mentioned here today. america at cycle laws ultimately will reflect god's love for his unborn children. until that time, some of us will never rest in our battle to protect the most vulnerable amongst us. the precious and innocent children of the womb. this is been a meaningful and insightful hearing. i moved by the testimony of our witnesses today. i have faith and confidence in the future of our nation, divided that we be on this issue. i believe ultimately, we are in god's hands and we will move
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forward according to his will. madam chair, i yield. >> the gentleman yields back. the gentleman from california is recognized for five minutes. >> the gentleman needs to unmute. >> thank you, madam chair. i just want to take 30 seconds to correct the record. representative fox suggested -- this absurd suggestion and that it was somehow conceived to encourage abortion in the african-american community. i suggest reading in eighth grade history book as a starter. first of all, abortion was not legal when planned parenthood was founded in the 1930's. originally it was founded to
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carry birth-control control by margaret sanger. the great civil rights leader was an advisor. it is fine to have ideological differences, it is sad that people are saying things that are a misreading of american history. frankly, pretty unpatriotic that you don't take the time to read american history and are creating false impression. this is why i think civil education -- civic education, get some basic facts. with that, let me turn to dr. skop. do you believe that homosexual behavior should be criminalized? >> [laughter] >> no of course not. >> you believe that same-sex
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marriage is ok? or are you against it? >> at this point, i think our country has decided that decision. i have no opinion to weigh in. >> it wouldn't be something you strongly oppose? >> i think what you are talking about is activity -- >> a simple yes or no. are you mutually for or against it, lately, do you think we should have tried to legalize -- >> i think they do. >> you think that is fine? >> that is the decision our country has made. >> the question, do you support a right to life group? >> are you asking me if i financially support? --
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>> [indiscernible] >> i assume, you are sympathetic -- >> there are differences of opinion within the pro-life community, as i'm sure there are in the pro-choice community. i think they did a heroic thing, i'm proud that texas is the first state -- >> here is my question for you, i hope you won't condemn this. former texas solicitor general, has filed an amicus brief on the group texas right to life in the dodds case, the review describes roanoke. they said -- heroic. they said there is no source of lot that can be invoked to resist it, -- we support the
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overturn of lawrence b texas, meaning basically they want to criminalize homosexual behavior again and take away same-sex marriage. can you today say and how embarrassed you are giving your beliefs that they would quote something like that to the supreme court? >> i have no opinion on that statement. i do not think it relates to the issue of abortion. >> of course it does, they are putting an amicus brief in the texas right to life, part of their argument for overturning roe v. wade points to issues of equality, does not concern you? the groups, in the name of defending sb8 are trying to overturn lawrence? >> i have no opinion on that.
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i wonder, could i clarify what congresswoman fox said, they mentioned -- >> do that on someone else's time. i want to know if you don't find a embarrassment in the fact that you have members of the pro-life movement that -- are you aware of that. >> i don't see how that pertains , i would imagine their briefs written in support of roe that might contain facts that you can to -- consider controversial. >> madam chair, his time is expired. perhaps he could have a hearing on homosexuality after your hearings on white supremacy and -- >> madam chair, i have a point.
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>> the gentlelady is recognized. >> thank you, madam chair. with respect to the gentleman from louisiana, my understanding is that it is the chair that decides what is part -- when a person's time has expired, the gentleman should have his mike muted, it is out of order when chiming in to tell you when someone's time has expired. >> yes, you're right. >> isn't that correct? >> the gentleman from louisiana didn't speak. >> the floor is mine at the moment. forgive me if i made reference to the wrong person, whoever has been calling out is out of order. it is you that controls the time , and tells members when their time has expired. >> we are all trying to stick to
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the five minute rule. >> i would just ask that members refrain -- you make sure members refrain from telling you when that is and we follow procedure so you can manage the time. thank you. >> thank you. the gentleman from south carolina is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. first of all, i want to thank everybody who testified today. our witnesses come up with your medical background, i know many of us are passionate about many issues. there are many women today that testified before us about their own struggles with rape, sexual assault and the lifelong pain and trauma it brings to us, both physically, emotionally and mentally. but the stories this morning that we heard a remarkable and
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painful. i told my rape story two or three years ago as a state lawmaker in south carolina, when they were doing their own fetal heart beat bill. today, i believe we are still one of the only states in the country that has a fetal heartbeat built with exceptions for women who have been raped and for victims of incest, because i told that story. i am pro-life, regardless of the circumstances, when you are right, it is traumatic. we have a right to make that decision for ourselves, at some point, these cells become a human, a child. inside a woman's woman. the other thing i think about this morning, it pains me to hear the stories, too often, too many women have the same stories. it is offensive, as i sit here,
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as a woman, is a victim of rape and hear some of my colleagues, -- question one of our physicians here today about what she would do if her daughter was raped. i cannot even tell you the unimaginable anger and pain i have as a woman when someone wants to make that hypothetical example. this isn't something to toy with , we should not be having this hearing for political pr purposes for the next fundraising scheme on social media. this is a serious issue. it affects women who are republican and democrat alike. this is not a joke. there are kids out there that are victims of incest, women out there dealing with this for a lifetime. i do not want to hear any of my colleagues, republican or democrat, sit there and have a
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hypothetical question two women were here today, asking them what they would do if your child was raped. i find it offensive and disgusting. the second thing i want to say is that gay marriage has nothing to do with abortion or the right to life in this country. it has already been decided by the supreme court. we are all adults in the room, i hope all the support the right, if you want to be married, like anybody else, you have the right to do that. third, and finally, i sit here today, as lieutenant colonel scheller is sitting in a braid, he is the only person that has been put away without a charge or sentence or conviction on afghanistan for exercising a right to speak out and potentially be a whistleblower and expressing his frustrations as a soldier. i saw yesterday and tuesday in the senate and house hearings
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the blame game going on, we have billions of dollars of equipment we just left to the taliban, were selling it to iran and who knows who else. we have a cabinet was saying one thing and present saying another. i then as i am sitting here in email across my desk that says reportedly the department of homeland security, secretary mayorkas is wondering if we can accommodate between 350000 and 400,000 immigrants at the border . if we can account for those illegal apprehensions, if we do away with title 42, meanwhile our border patrol agents are being right -- threatened at being fired if they don't have vaccination. what the hell is going on here today. we don't have oversight over state abortion rights. this is not the purpose of this committee, i yield back. thank you.
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>> the gentlelady yields back. the gentle woman from new york is recognized for five minutes. >> i need to correct and address an assertion that was made, not too long ago. this idea that first of all, that this law provides ample time for a victim of abuse to seek abortion care, because once again, we are in a room of legislators for attempting to legislate reproductive systems that they know nothing about. six weeks pregnant, and it is shameful that this needs to happen, this conversation should not be held in a legislative
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body. six weeks pregnant is two weeks late for one period. when you are raped, you don't always know what happened to you. i speak about this is a survivor. you are in so much shock, and by the way, people who commit abuse and victims and survivors of sexual assault are overwhelmingly assaulted by someone they know. this myth that some person lurking on a street or in a parking lot, waiting to sexually assault you, that myth only benefits the abusers in power at why you to think that is how it happens. it is your friend, a boyfriend, a boy -- a boss, a legislator.
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you are in so much shock at what happened to you, sometimes it takes years to realize what actually went on. who's idea the victims know in the two weeks they might be late for their. -- might be late for their period. i am about 15. 115 pounds. you look at me weird i miss my period. that makes you two weeks late, whether you're pregnant or lot -- pregnant or not. unbelievable. that the republican side would call a witness so irresponsible and hurtful to survivors across this country. honestly.
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your constituents deserve in a policy. professor, is it possible for us an abuser to sabotage their partner's birth control? turn on >> turn on your bike. >> yes, i hear all the time. i have heard from women, particularly when they are in control or power of their abuser , all the time we are seeing people forced to continue pregnancy and we have seen people were coerced and dabbing abortions. that is why it has to beat the woman's choice, not the people with power over her. >> thank you, professor. as you said, it is a common tactic for eight -- four and abuser to sabotage a woman's control. would you say abusers often do
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this to intentionally if there partners pregnant without their knowledge. >> yes, that happen. i don't think my rapist wanted me to be pregnant, but i do hear women's stories all the time. there are many circumstances, you can't come up with one story , different circumstances. >> as we can see, abusers will sabotage their partner's birth control in an effort to exert power and control over them. dr. moayedi, when we see that the tactics of abusers on a personal level, the attempts of control can sabotage victims -- victims reproductive care over themselves, then becomes mass adopted by overwhelmingly
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cisgender mail state legislatures, do you see a connection between these abuse dynamics and how they inform a culture in which we could be affirmed or which these laws could potentially help or assist abusers in this dynamic? >> unfortunately, our country is actually founded on reproductive control and coercion of enslaved africans and other indigent people. this is a historical tactic and a method of upholding white supremacy. >> thank>> the gentleman from gs recognized for five minutes. rep. clyde: it is evident this hearing is strategically placed to distract from the massive $4.3 trillion spending bill the democrats want to hide from the american people, that will further bankrupt our country, saddle us with trillions more in
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debt and create federman -- federal programs that change america into a socialist nation. that's because the democrats passed their bill that pertains to today's topic last week. we hold hearings together on bills before they pass, not after they are passed. unless it is for messaging purposes only and that is what we are doing. we are here attending a hearing called examining the urgent need to expand abortion rights and access. let's be clear, abortion is neither health care nor is it a constitutional right. life is a constitutional right. an abortion procedure ends alive, it ends the heartbeat of a precious child in the womb, and sexual violence is never acceptable or protected in our constitution. dr. skop, if you want an opportunity to respond to that personal attack, i will give you one.
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dr. skop: thank you for that opportunity but i am not offended. there is a so much pain on both sides of this issue. if we all come away from one point of this hearing, it is that we are not going to legislate, we are not going to find a solution that makes everybody happy, and we need to -- our country needs to improve its behavior. we need to stop allowing rapists to run amok. we need to provide effective contraception, which by the way, there is long acting reversible contraception that is extruded nearly effective and has been proven and i am sure you would agree with me, in large-scale studies to prevent abortion by preventing women from getting pregnant. we need to prioritize relationships. most women who seek abortions, if they tell the father of the baby about their pregnancy, i have seen this time and again,
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what they are secretly hoping for is they will say i love you, i will marry you, the circumstances may not be good and we may not have much money, but we will make it work. that is what women want. what they are getting instead is here is a $600 and planned parenthood is down the street. all of this has to change. rep. clyde: wow, wow, wow. thank you for being here today. you mentioned in your testimony you have delivered over 5000 babies in the last 29 years. i am sure you have seen technology come along -- a long way the beginning. can you describe briefly the impact technology has had on improving the viability of unborn children for those born prematurely? dr. skop: it is amazing. these babies, i believe one of the witnesses earlier today was discussing her child she could hold in her hand. they are perfectly formed.
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they feel pain, they many times at 22 weeks, half of these babies can survive and many have an intact survival. that's not to say there isn't pain involved in that. how horrible to have a child if you don't know if they will live or die, or maybe they have a life of struggle. it is amazing we can do what we can do, but at the same time, maybe we can start looking into some of the things that cause these young babies to be born, and in any cases it is cervical damage because abortion is so common. rep. clyde: thank you, previously you expounded on the risks of abortions, especially at home chemical abortions. with the recent push to eliminate protocols, do you believe women in rural areas are at high risk for serious complications? dr. skop: certainly the
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complications don't occur when the woman is given the pill in the clinic. the reason for in person requirements is to make sure they desire the abortion, they have been counseled appropriately, that they are not -- that they are at low risk to have a complication from the abortion. if they think they are eight weeks and they are really 12 weeks, there is a higher failure rate. that is the reason for the in person requirements. the tail end of the abortion is many women bleed for a week or two, have a lot of clots and pain, 80% lead for more than a month. the tail end is the complications occur long after she has left the abortion facility, which may be five hours from her home. when she is in a rural area and does not have access to emergency care conveniently, those are the women that will suffer. if that woman really understood, i think most of them would opt
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for a surgical abortion in the clinic so it is done and they do not have to worry they will be one of the 5%-8% that will require a surgery, often in emergent conditions, overrunning the er, in the time we are concerned about the covid pandemic, using the pandemic as an excuse to tell women to self manage their abortion remote from the clinic in rural areas, it is an absolute -- it shows me the women -- >> time is expired, you may tie it up. dr. skop: i don't think it is good care for women. it is not showing we value those women to put them in that dangerous situation. >> the gentleman's time is expired. the gentlewoman for michigan is represented for five minutes. rep. tlaib: thank you for taking
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a deeper dive and what happened in texas and across the country. i grew up in the most beautiful, blackest city in the country well 85% of the city of detroit is black and beautiful and black mothers told my mother to raise her boys when she had that accident at parent meetings, and i am listening to people pretending, disingenuous, that they care about the lives of my black neighbors. i get emotional about this because i cannot believe that my colleagues who did not vote for the george floyd justice in policing act, are talking about the fact that planned parenthood, which i believe is one of the only health care places and institutions in cities like mine, the fact that we have some of the worst infant mortality rates in the country amongst black children. we cannot even get them to one-year-old. why aren't we expending the same energy, doctor, and getting
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them to one year? how -- why when i was in the michigan legislature, they spent so much time on this but they did not want to talk about the single mother, so she could have wraparound services because she made that choice? we abandoned those mothers. every corner, we vilify and dehumanize. i have watched them force mothers to do drug testing before they could even get any assistance. when are we going to actually call this out for what it is? this is about controlling women in our country, period. stop pretending it is anything but. you know what is so distressful about all of this is the fact it is not just texas, chairwoman, you know this. this is literally opening the floodgates for the possibility that we are actually going to see our country punish and criminalize abortion,
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criminalize women making a very difficult decision. i want to know, dr. skop, what are you doing about infant mortality rates among black children? have you testified in a committee about it? dr. skop: thank you for your question. i am very interested in the topic, i have applied to be a member of the texas maternal morbidity committee three times and have not been expect -- accepted. i think it may be because of my stance on life. i am terribly concerned by the lack of support that so many of those women have. rep. tlaib: the same people that voted for the bill you are championing today are people that would leave them completely homeless and with no safeguards at all. i want you to believe me when i say that to you. because black lives matter should be at the forefront of every policy we do it this can -- in this country.
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it can't just be you being on a commission, it is standing up and saying -- i want to tell you something. over 40% of the deaths of covid in my state are my black neighbors. even though they make up less than 14% of the total population of michigan. because of environmental racism, because they don't have access to health care, and you all are punishing planned parenthood, sometimes the only option they have. because people are investing and saying this is how we can get access to health care. i am really just incredibly frustrated of the gas lighting, misleading and trying to say you're speaking on behalf of my black neighbors. you are not. you are not. i'm going to leave with ms. ross. i saw the pain on your face i have to tell you, as you were listening to them, i could see you had a lot to say, and i'm going to leave you with the last minute to tell me how you felt
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you heard them talk about this is killing black folks. tell them about what is really killing black folks in this country. tell them the truth. prof. ross: i am tired of white saviors saying black women are not smart enough to make our own decisions about our lives. that's what i am tired of. that is the ultimate in racism, to accuse of being less smart, less human, and less caring about our children than you do, when you vote against children having lunches, getting good schools, hitting rid of guns so they can survive. you vote against everything about our children once they are here, and yet you want to say you are a better savior of lack children then we are? get over yourself, this white saviorism does not convince us to have our interest at heart. rep. tlaib: i hope you hurt her, because a mentor of mine told
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me, people will not see the same way icu, but i hope you felt what she was saying. you want to save lives, tear down racism in our country. >> the gentleman from kansas -- knowing >> point of order from the ranking member, point of order. >> the gentleman is recognized. what is your point of order? >> i've never seen a hearing there a witness has been battered and treated the way our witness has been treated today and i would encourage your members to treat this witness with respect, i can't believe i'm having to say this. in congress, we are very frustrated that 99% of your
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witnesses are in this congress but we treat them with respect. all i ask is the democrats treat our witness with respect. she is answering the questions and doing a tremendous job, handling herself well and i don't think she deserves to be treated the way she has been treated by your side. i yield back. rep. maloney: i know members have strong feelings about this issue but i would encourage members to treat everyone in this hearing, members and witnesses with respect. with that, can we continue with our hearing? i now call on the gentleman from kansas. >> this committee has many opportunities for much-needed and long oversight, including the growing security crisis on our southern border, the deadly disaster that was our
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humiliating troop withdrawal from afghanistan. the true origin of covid, and runaway inflation. however, we are taking time today to instead focus on the legislation the house passed last friday. the abortion on demand until birth act. this past january march the 48th anniversary of the infamous roe >> struck down any law unbornchildren from abortion ann estimated 6 million unbornn american wives have been cut short on the abortion industry since the decision it's estimated that as many as 2000 unborn american lives are tragically ended every day. fortunately, i was standing evers like hr 3755, that number is on the decline in america thanks to no small part, to science. science which proves at six we can unborn child has a heartbeat
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of about 98 beats per minute in science, which proves and ten weeks and unborn child has arms, legs, fingers and toes. as capable of feeling pain. science which proves a 15 weeks, and unborn child as a fully developed heart, 26 courts of blood per day and is more and more americans seen as evidence, over 121250 laws in about 500 in the past decade alone, protect the lives of the unborn child in the pregnant mother. and today, two thirds of americans believe the state should make laws regarding the abortion industry that abortion should be legal a or other legal in the same trimester for other five beliefs abortion should be illegal in the third for mr. congress must stand with these americans to reject the abortion policy of the left and continue to find a way to work together to protect the unborn.
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doctor i appreciate you being here and i would echo the comments of the ranking member that you have been treated fairly today. the work that you have done, is incredibly impressive, compassionate, and i want to ask you a couple of questions but first, earlier you triedt, to speak on margaret and planned parenthood and things like is i just wanted her one i would like to give you an opportunity to talk about that if you want. >> sure and thank you rated his little more complicated than what the congresswoman stated margaret sanger, quite a bit of documentation eugenics and it was very popular in our country at that time she made many statements talking about theim types of people that she did not want to be born read recently,ly the men had and planned parenthood a name off the building as they acknowledge
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that she had made statements were not in line with what we believe today à la guttmacher was the second head of planned parenthood about the time that abortion became illegal and that's when itt made its way ino abortion provisionon i think everybody is aware that they provide more than half ofat the abortions in our country today pretty she was not in favor of abortion, it was illegal and dangerous at the time that she did work but she was in favor of keeping certain ethnic groups and financial groups from having children. >> i think one of the things that when we look at these laws, i was in kansas state legislature and i worked on banning election abortions for example. in these laws that we see across the country, am so supportive up and we have to continue to fight
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on this front. and i also think the pro-life movement needs to do a better job showing compassion for the mothers that find themselves in a terrible circumstance. i think you are one of the people doing it the great and could you talk specifically about the worker pregnancies center student support magnet women and their loved ones. >> thank you so much for that question and yes my passion for this as i said earlier, women never have to address this horrible decision. no matter how they choose, if you can see from her witnesses earlier today, even though they feel like theou decision they've made allowed them to succeed in life, is so painful. i have to say doctor, your story of child great, that hurts my heart that you went through that. we do need to acknowledge that children do not have to be a
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barrier to be a success in life as women, cory steinem, i appreciate the groundwork that she laidst so that women we are extraordinarily successful i have three children and i love them all dearly. and at work until the day i gave birth for allrt three of those children i did not stop me from succeeding in my chosen profession. we must think of the country is in partisan ship that said that we either have to available for everybody in every circumstance or than to totally limit it entirely. we are all concerned about human trafficking, letting medical abortions readily available over the internet by mail order, how does that help trafficking if the woman interactions medical system are one of the ways they
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can be identified and they can help with these pregnant women, many, probably most graphic women havee abortions and unintended pregnancies and abortions that ifni we are just allowing their traffickers do have these pillse to in their pregnancy so they never see the healthcare system, that's wrong. i said, the work that i do, to provide women pretty. >> he just on the stock because your time has expired pretty. >> contraception so they don't get pregnant. healthy relationships so that if they do get pregnant, it's a couple together who raises an child. educations of the children understand the importance off abstinence in which contraception works well in which does not. >> thank you. >> the gentleman from illinois mr. davis is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. i don't think you for calling
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isn't very important hearing you. i still want to think all of the witnesses for their compelling testimony and especially want to thank my sister colleague for the revelations in sharing their experiences. i want to start by thanking you for sharing your story with many and with the world. i know that i speak for many of my colleagues and the public, is saying that we are better for having your voice your today. and with your permission, i would like to ask you about some of the experiences you share in your testimony including some you have identified as being traumatic. is that okay with you. >> absolutely pretty. >> thank you.
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enter call for for written testimony and noticed that the unlicensed emissions who are pressuring you to continue to carry your unwanted pregnancy rated misinformed you that your ability to pursue a medication. is that true pretty. >> yes pretty. >> let me ask you, and you feel when you are told that you could not receive the medication of abortion treatment. >> thank you for your question. i want to start by saying i do not regret either my abortions and you regret my experience of the crisis pregnancy center printed the most dramatic part of my experience was one of the centers and always treated thers and i hope they shut down and they prey on vulnerable pregnant people and i just want to acknowledge that a lot of people being left out of the conversation today and as we know people to get pregnant and
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not just - but your people over and over again said we would get pregnant but that is excluding people that should bet a part of this conversation. as for the crisis pregnancy center, let them know that i am m a survivor of sex is all thati developed a medical condition as a result of that offense which makes any sort of situation difficultt eventually having anxiety about having an ultrasound, i told there were these two ladies that were clearly not medical professionals and i told him, and the stenographer was also not a license stenographer with somebody going to test i told them that i was scared and the response was becoming s pregnant now - and as someone who's worked in the role of an advocate for sex assault survivor and is a survivor, that is disgusting and i don't know why crisis pregnancy centerst ae allowed to printlo people.
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i just think they should all shut down. they do not help, the praying pregnancy people. >> you mentioned in your written testimony that you actually had a relative who insisted that when you are in need and that made me remember the time that i have driven young would be mothers to the emergency room of hospitals after they had attempted an abortion with a coat hanger. and i have family been able to help you, financially, what do you think your experiences would've been like. >> i just want to say it worries me about people using unsafe alternatives but i do want to assure everybody that it is very
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very safe and nothing like what you have described. i was very angry that he had to travel all the way to colorado springs, spent $2000 that he didn't even have. relative paid for me to have access to my abortion. but all i really did was go to another state, navigate all of these numerous barriers for the provider to give me a pill that i could've taken it home. this what i should've been able to do. they're very safe and they are great way to have an abortion if somebody chooses, kindest person's choice. i would get pregnant again did not want to carry the pregnancy this time, my choice of either medication abortion. >> me thank you forur sharing yr experiences with us. this is indeed been a very informative experience and i
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cannot thank you more for holding this 90 i yield back. >> thank you, the gentleman from wisconsin is recognized for five minutes. >> sure, i guess this can be used primarily to doctor stop and scott. i think kind of how is this going to affect america. and of course i was in the state legislature for a long period of time and we have a variety bills that we would've liked to ban abortion in a variety bills that to hopefully, change the way people look at it in one of those bills is 24 hour. a bill that i think was kind of the model for the country and researching, we talked about all the women who are being pushed and having an abortion and we also after the bill passed, then
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i think it was either one some of the one tenth of the woman he thursday did not show up the second date which would indicate that without the milk, the abortion providers i too many people the medical profession, they just wanted to get the abortion done and get the cash and not have to worry. the somebody might not have to come back for the second appointment. and, my anybody would want to put somebody through an abortion 45 minutes over an hour after they walked into the door without letting them go home collect their thoughts and see the really felt. >> i don't know the mindset of what would encourage that but i think that if all of us believe in choice, we should make sure, this the type of the decision that admittedly some women can
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make this decision and move on but i've seen many women who made the decision have regretted it intensely. so this is the type of decision should allow time for reflection so i would think that anybody who cares about choice, would be interested in making sure that woman has all the information it at her disposal she knows how far along she is and with the conflict and complications that might result could be and she understands the development of ndher child and then she has tie to reflect so i think the waiting periods as you said, many women do not come back after the wedding. and i think is a women's who have reflected and said, this is not the choice i want to make carrying my baby. so, if we are not motivated by a thought that every abortion is a good abortion which i think that iall of us intuitively realize that is not the case.
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perhaps the old population control motivations, and may consider every abortion is a good abortion with those of us who are thinking individuals understand the complexity of people's lives must recognize there are some people may move on from an abortion without much affect their others will be dramatically changed and we need to make sure the both of those people have the information that they needed in order to make the right choice. >> also, it is an opportunity for some of the children's lives saved if you talk to anybody was been adopted for people with adopted children, you realize these women and do not come back after 24 hours early unfortunate things can happen. make one final comment varela to
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go. i have my political life, several pro- planned parenthood people they do focus and am aware that they really do with the population - the one more question here. if you prohibits for life and health and especially in medicine and technology. do you believe in is much more clear that we have human life today and say, three years ago pretty. >> absolutely. the ultrasound technology, interviews or an surgery on the ct make babies but even shortly after the time, doctor bernard of mason and with one of the
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founding members of mar al, and he was instrumental in the row decision he was an abortionist and as he saw more ultrasound technology and recognize humanity of the fetus he wrote a letter and journal of medicine when he said, i'm increasingly convinced that i have presided over 60000 deaths. he became pro-life because of the ultrasoundnd technology. >> your time is expired. the gentle lady from florida, recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, are twins who were conceived through in vitro. this was 22 years ago and after they were born, we are told the only way thataf we can can see e child was through rbs rated four years later, i missed it.
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and learned thatat i was pregnat with her very much wanted daughter and eight weeks. millions of women have irregular menstrual cycles and often times by the time you realize you miss you. , you are past the six week limitation it in the texas law. this is common in seductive your testimony this address the most women have plenty of time within that six weeke limitation, is divorced from reality biology and science and you know it. now moving on to the extremism in the texas law. we heard the pain and confusion in the challenges that they have gone through as a result of being forced to share custody with the attacker. i just can't even imagine. a member should be aware 34 states require a conviction of rape to terminate parental rights of the attacker. forcing the women to give birth
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from a pregnancy conceived from rate is forcing women to repeatedly be victimized by the rapist and that is outrageous and unacceptable. now soon after the supreme court allowed this texas man to take back a type choice are in a similar legislation ban including my own state of florida. these grotesque texas and for the bills in particular post some of the greatest threats abortion access in u.s. history one of the most morning blatantly unconstitutional the moment is they allow private citizens from anywhere to become bounty hunters to enforce the six week abortion fan. this is big brother been jealousy, and captures cuba the my constituents reflect. from local antiabortion protesters out-of-state lobbyist groups can send that any individual who wants to seek an abortion including reduction or driving to an appointment
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including family members friends arena drivers. and can you tell us what this means to people accessing abortion in texas and what could it mean for individuals in florida if that copycat bill was signed into law in your answer, he provided more detail about the nature of this bounty system enforcement strategy and believe the goal is really to have private citizens actually file bosses was at creating an intimidated culture the fear that will prevent women from receiving abortion care pretty. >> thank you for the question i'm delighted to insert in second records state. on the texas unconstitutional ban on abortions. the law was purposely crafted into avoided abuse typically when abortion bans are put into law, they are violating the constitution federal courts. them from going into a lot of the constitutionality is being litigated it in order to avoid that, jonathan mitchell who was
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the architect of that and also the author of the bill previously referenced. and overruled he crafted this law for the purpose of taking out of the enforcement mechanism to delegate private individuals and purpose of business people. one system of support the pregnant person might rely upon an abortion i care and two, to ensure federal courts cannot, and stuff is often going into effect. this has de la this man to go into effect the reason why today, there are millions of people reproductive age in texas who are without the same constitutional rights as the rest of us read. >> thank you. professor rawson wanted turned to you. i ames concerned that antiabortn social media companies like twitter and facebook to coordinate the bounty hunting of women seeking abortion due to systemic racial barriers to you that black women will likely
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suffer the brunt of this in boston companies preventive kind of egregious behaviors of others have failed to act which is a clear violation of the guidelines printed these technology companies also have an obligation toha stop abortion bounty hunting on their platform to a shark committee safety. >> will i think technology companies need to be regulated simply because they're acting like a utility in the hamper privacy information. but they dosing to have a moral center about other platforms get used to challenge democracy and the dosing to care because they monetize outrage and laugh all of the way to the bank although similar role in the bowl they can be targetedd so, yes, i thik that isth a real discussion we need to have read but i do want to raise one point that is to talk about how many people think that black women in are threatened by planned parenthood. it never worked for planneded
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parenthood and low unemployment going to speak up on behalf of black women are constantly told that we arens not smart enough o determine for our lives and the decisions we need to make in a really think these white saviors need to stop acting like races because if you want to be called races, stop mouthing those races talking points against black women. because we see you for what you'reyo doing, not for the work you're it. you care about our lives, and you about her children and we don't care to have you in writing planned parenthood which does work to save our lives because you think we don't see through your hypocrisy. w >> thank you and i yield back. >> south carolina now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you pretty and i think
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this was mentioned, this is a sad thing with the atrocities that are going to cross happening across this country from afghanistan where people are getting slaughtered to the border where you talk about women's rights and freedoms and women who get raped in children getting raped and drugs coming across the border. we are talking here today, the taxpayer dollars to talk about estate issue right now that really with the ongoing tragedies having all the world are self-inflicted, it is amazing that we are doing this. but anyway, as i have listened now for the word to describe the killing of a child, the me just read a women's legal right to choose a woman's right and choice fertilized egg, and taking of a life. in our family has experienced it
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with a daughter having a child at 25 weeks, and i think the representative mentioned her child was as big as her hand and i was our grandchild was as big as her and and they went through the decisions that could affect the lives of the mother and the long-term health of the child and she chose to have the child. in the child is up and running we can celebrate his second birthday. so yes, as we talk about this, just a as doctor the people that you have i guess counseled after who have had an abortion in my case, people that i've talked to, or anybody was had an abortion that i have talked to has had a tear behind their description of what they went through. what is your experience. >> well i would say is mixed. some women will not talk to me about it and i believe we hear
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that one out of four americans women have had abortions. but when i do new patient n there's not nearly one out of four that will reported on their history. there was some discussion earlier today about shame and stigma. it is true that women experience shame from their abortions but it's not because of the lawmakers. it's because they know defended the life of their child. when counseling a woman, if they did give me the history of the abortion, i do try to look into that a little bit. how do you feel. many times just asking very gentle questions, 20 years later, tears will come to their eyes so they still feel regret and sadness in many cases. perhaps if they've had multiple surgical abortions i will do proactive monitoring, measuring
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cervical links, make sure that if they are beginning to have an incompetent * rates we be proactive in treatment. it was not really brought up in the steering but i do want to make the point that many temp we hear about abortions for the life of the mother. as an ob/gyn, caring for many women, have never had a referred patient for an abortion to save paher life. in the rare event that a fetus does pose a risk to the mother's life, i can deliver the baby by c-section or induced labor, many times you be saved if he can his mother can hold him and let him until he passess away so there s a very but we can deal with these cases. in a very humane way. >> i agree. you're familiar with if somebody is accused of a double homicide, killing a mother while she's
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pregnant, are you in favor of redoing those laws here in favor of abortion, is killing of a child in a mother, is a double homicide, wouldld you change the laws of the state. >> i'm in favor of everyone having equitable and fair access to healthcare. it. >> i'm talking about it double homicide to the beach change pretty. >> again i believe that abortion is healthcare and i don't see it the way that you do pretty. >> so what your definition of homicide. megan oc abortion as homicide scene is healthcare andse for m, they can be no limits on healthcare, there cannot be second chances healthcare should always be free equitable and everybody should have access pretty. >> joy asked the question, to the life of a child, why is it a crime medication mother, and child in the womb, why is that a crime and you think the crime to be changed so as not double homicide. >> i think what -
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>> thank you knife. yet you not answering my question. >> the gentleman from vermont is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you i don't think all of the witnesses and also i especially want to thank my congressional colleagues who spoke this morning and their deeply personal situations i applaud them for coming forward. i'm appalled by the texas decision is a fundamental infringement on the rights of women. and appalled by the aspect of the law attorneys the citizens into vigilantes and bounty hunters. it is chaos for our country, personal respect, and the rule of law. in vermont the very proud of our legislature and our governor who have passed into law a bill - 57 which recognizes that a choice
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of reproductive care is a fundamental right prohibits the state and local government from interfering with the rights of restricting abortion. inin the polls the rights of won it and it is now considered by the people vermont is a constitutional amendment. and i'm in supportive law and i am a cosponsor of it but one of the challenges that we have in vermont is a very rural state in many parts but it is very difficult with the restrictions for women in rural areas to get access in any significant at all convenient. my question and will start with the doctor. people living in rural communities where providers can be fewit and far between, they already face challenges to get abortion care. in your experiences how does the
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abortion ban and the group severe restrictions particularly in texas affect patient seeking abortion care in rural communities. >> abortion restriction are devastating to the rural communities that t i serve. in dallas on any day providing abortion care prior to this lobby, i might see several patients thatg have driven three or four or 500 miles, for their care. that is unethical and unconscionable somebody has to drive that far to get pregnancy care. >> thankeg you rated i want to thank you for your work and hows the texas people access and support rural patients in need of abortion care,e, this real practical challenges that have to be met. i would like you to explain how you managed to help folks in your area printed. >> figure for your question and as the doctorou said, they face
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additional challenges when it comes to accessing an abortion. there's not many left in the state of texas and people have to travel really really far. so now it's logistical nightmare even if somebody were known that they were pregnant, by six weeks by the time they might be able to, with the money or they'd be able to find a clinic an appointment because they went over the limit. but we really need to focus on is how people are not able to access care people in rural communities especially as people are not able to access care they deserve because of this. >> is sometimes against abstract here because very real financial pressures on ain young person. that's in need of an abortion and even with the job of the gas money for child care money, and it taking time off from work which they may not be able to do
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and tedious, the little bit on those really practical real-world challenges that a young woman with faceac pretty. >> yes, i can talk about my own experience when i had my first abortion, i was a young woman that it was in college and moved to a new country in a new immigrant to the legal system and i didn't know what my rights were and where i come from, abortion is not treated the way it is here in the u.s. on the culture shock to all of that. i had to travel as i said to colorado springs because of the disinformation provided to me by the pregnancy center and i wish i didn't have to but clearly didn't have the money had i not had raven didn't have a relative, i would not be sitting before you today at all, would not have my daughter that i love with my whole heart today. it would not be with my husband. and so last-minute flight when you're trying to scramble and you're trying to make sure that
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you can get your care when you needed, last-minute flight was nearly $400 a lot of people may disagree but so use have that experience, and i was also in a new state and this is important and a support person america $800 per flight in my procedure was about $680 but my blood type was negative so i needed another shot to protect a future pregnancy and that was over $1120 and i was extremely sick and it forced to travel to take a flight to go to another state and i needed a medication but he also needed nausea vacation because is about throwing up 13 and 14 times natives extremely dehydrated is being forced to travel from texas all of the way to colorado springs. that was ridiculous. and not to mention that i love my family and my friends who were there for me. but there were other cause such as food in order for $10 an hour
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job sojo i work but i was only able to make it work because of my family member who paid for everything otherwise you're also talking with allies of wages that iss missed work for two wes and i put around $2000. so just imagine, that is not a cost - >> my time is up. that's very graphic and real thank you and i yelled back. >> thank you mr. biggs recognized for five minutes pretty. >> thank you and deeply opposed to the premise of this hearing and it's sincerely disappointing theyce have chosen to use this time and resources and time on this topic on expanding it rather than connecting oversight for the biden administration and disastrous policies. disastrous policies and discussing the democrats asserting that we must expand deaccess to procedure is killedn estimated 62 million babies since w they decided in this lat week the house passed budget
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that's enacted, will make everything the country in late term abortion state and as we, the democrats voted not to preserve the life ofif a baby bn alive after abortion read some really disturbed by this the premise of this hearing but i want to go, ongoing recent statements with regard to certain findings in article that i would submithe to the regulat. this is from a journal medical ethics by doctor in john bachman who wrote, her scientific evidence supports possibility of fetal pain before they can sense is, 24 respecting out to conclude that a baby in utero may feel pain as early as 12 weeks. your comments please printed. >> articles very interesting
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because the doctor is well known as an expert in the field and in fact the american college of obstetricians and gynecologists in the very same as saying that fetal pain does not occur until the third trimester. and quoted doctor durfee and the other paper that they quoted was soothingly a very pious paper written by abortions providers. nonetheless, the doctor is a pro-choice man but he also is willing to follow the science where it goes and is become convinced withh his research tht there is telling evidence that pain exists as early as 12 weeks. his previous statements he went and said, i was wrong. so i wish we could all do that we can all re-examine our biases and under the current evidence and decide perhaps in some ways
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to cap it off pretty. >> thank you and from another piece, i'm going to quote from it, today during the fetal surgery, specialist and fetal anesthesia present to administer to general and study to the baby as well as an agent and opioid. is that accurate pretty. >> that is accurate. the standard of care. >> and why would you provide this maybe even in opioid to a fetus receiving surgery. >> because in that case, the fetus is the patient. is desired, the distance does not apply to him and so he has treated with care and respect pretty. >> i was struck by earlier testimony that your training was when you were treating someone who's pregnant treating to patients. extent ofat that lease.
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>> i entered the field because i love the moment in a new baby is born, it's a fabulous thing brief enough scene, is have to be there to just recognize the miracleth of life. i love women as well as the fetuses so i don't want you to think, think the allegations have been made to somehow i've taken the fetuses. i just think that women it sufferer from having this joy so readily available, socially physically mentally and in many cases. i wanted to say something related to the accessibility which relates to what you said, about provider in san antonio manav new rural women live aroud us, about two and half hours from theur border. so i patients who come to see me early in pregnancy once a month,
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later every two weeks, the final month of pregnancy weekly and from those border cities driving toek have hours each way so thai can care for their baby so people are concerned that people might have to make two trips to abort their baby. the peoplepe who desire a baby, many times make that trip multiple times. that speaks maybe we should be expanding access to hospitals and prenatal care in rural areas instead of just prioritizing our intent abortions pretty. >> my time has expired and i would likeob to submit a couplef articles to the record. thank you. >> the gentle lady california, is recognized for five minutes pretty. >> thank you and think you all for your patience here doctor,
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can you tell me what the american college of obstetricians and gynecologists says about abortion. >> i can't tell you exactly with the overall statement has been that all physicians that they should offer nonbiased based care. in that apportionment is part of the full spectrum of reproductive healthcare pretty. >> and in testimony is been offered today, have you heard nonbiased statements being made about the procedure by your colleague. >> no i have not read. >> can you expand on that please printed. >> sure, i've heard several racist statements and several made between white people about what black people should or should not do with the pregnancies. is incredibly disturbing to your white people discussing what racism is or is not. and also heard several pieces of
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misinformationse about what it does or did not with the medication these are not chemicals and then heard very strange terminology use, medications, and this medication blocks the hormone progesterone and is not for magic toxin. this is simple hormone walker and prevents pregnancy from continuing to grow this medication can also be used to disperse growth later in pregnancies was safe to take throughout pregnancy in the second medications are called another name, both of the susie's medication to induce labor and we use it to prepare the cervarix heart surgery and is also used in abortion care greatest of these two medications are incredibly safe printed. >> so according to a 2018 report by the national academy of sciences, engineering and
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medicine, abortion is safer than childbirth colonoscopies, dental procedures, plastic surgery, and tonsillectomy. and yet facilities that provide abortion care are more likely to be subjected to medically unnecessary politically motivated regulations that only make it more difficult to provide abortion services. have you encountered such targeted regulations of abortion providers where you practice and if so, how has it affected you. >> i experienced targeted regulations every single day that i providing from where i go to provide it instead of being able to provide it in my private practice and i have to provided especially license clinic in our state. and from the ways that i have two consultations since they require that i like to patients about the risk associated with medications over the abortions. really top to bottom everything about the care that we provide
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and regulated by the state when we also have state clinics all across our state that i do people that perform ultrasounds without medical supervision's are taking care of people that have been told that there pregnancy is six weeks when they're actually 18 weeks, the mental the pregnancy is a teammates with her actually six weeks and the intention is to lie to them to caress them out of their abortion decision. >> is an uncommon in yourco practice that a woman comes to you not even knowing that she is pregnant and she is 16 weeks. >> there are people that present not knowing how many weeks they are. that is not very common but overwhelming, evidence shows that people are pretty good at knowing how pregnant they are. although it might take them a while to find out come of you have to miss you.
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first read. >> may be more than one pretty. >> exactly pretty. >> i think what we forget is certainly a male colleagues wouldn't have been experience with it but often times, you will miss you. because of stress related location and so it is kind of filed it away and then another month and sometimes it is not until the third month without you. that maybe i am pregnant. does that or hasn't happened. >> it does and the other thing that i want to make clear that abortion is not just for people forgot to take contraception for the nfl. it is false to say that if we just got everybody iuds who wouldn't have it anymore, people also choose abortion it very highly desired pregnancies because many things in their lives change and so is false to say that this is not just a contraception issue. >> i think you and one last question, how much does it cost,
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they don't cover abortion in texas, how much is a cost to get an abortion in texas. >> so abortion care is incredibly cheap pretty. >> provide the answer for the record. thank you and i yield back. >> okay now recognized from new mexico for five minutes. >> thank you and the witnesses, i know it's been a very long day and while i understand this is such an important topic for us, truly wish we were having hearings on the supply and afghan and venting crisis and border and administrations withdrawal from afghanistan. the were not, this what were doing today my questions are for the doctor. no we don't have a lot of time so i'll go through these questions. i come from estate in the new mexico where late-term abortionists alive and well
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predict i don't support it but what i do want to ask you is a specific question about the proe or as a whole. and is it true that abortion procedures based on the gestational age of the unborn child changes pretty. >> i like to enter my questions from before. is it true that abortion procedures change based on the gestational age and size of the unborn child credit. >> so procedures are individualized to the person whether at in the pregnancy, the there medical circumstances and the setting which we are providing the care pretty. >> so what procedures have typically used in early pregnancy pretty. >> so as far as he drove abortion, typically early pregnancy offered as either with medications or procedures, dilation. raand aspiration abortion. it. >> thank you and wisest
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procedure not used later in pregnancy printed. >> 's procedures also used later in pregnancy, which is also use other instruments to help terminate the pregnancy. >> okay, thought it was because tissues grow from her is more difficult abortion process read i might bean wrong there. >> so that's exactly what i just explained, is the same techniques but in additional instruments. >> great and what abortion procedures are used after 15 weeks gestation printed. >> the same of the same i just described, condemnation of gently dilating the cervarix using of medications and it violators and then removing the pregnancy and with an instrument pretty. >> so more along thelo lines ofn abortion pretty. >> that is not a medical term pretty. >> but it is used pretty. >> that is not a medical term that is not a medical term. >> is equal to dismemberment
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pretty. >> so just want make sure that the public can understand it exactly what we are talking about because were talking about dismembering a baby. >> i'm not lying to the public pretty. >> i'm not either but i do want to speak truth to the public so let's call it what it is that i'm going to say dismemberment and you don't have to respond that but we all know that's exactly what it is and he will need to understand what we are talking about when we are dismembering the arms and the legs and beating heart baby from a mother so thank you for those answers and i would now like to move over to the witness, the republican witness, just going to askhe your opinion, i believe we have a moral crisis on our hands in the country. i think we stop teaching children in elementary school had about condoms on bananas and how to stop thinking that having sex has no consequences and making personal choices that would not relate to having to make a tough decision like this is part of our problem. help me understand you think the
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education in terms of sex education and as a morality of what we are doing to our youth and what is your thought of that. >> i think there is a concern that for whatever reason, were attempting to normalize sex behavior in young children. history has shown us that people do have a 16, there were obviously many women who playfully give their babies up for adoption which was a very sad thing and women it did speak of illegal abortions but, we are promoting activity that will be followedou through. the more you intrigued the children by talking about sex, the more of that behavior you will get and i don't think there's any surprise there. the more sex and of course that occurs even if there are
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contraceptives available the more unintended pregnancies you willll see so i agree, we are transiting children are not sure why is being promoted but it is being and the consequences that we are having more young children pregnant, and i agree, it is a problem. >> thank you and i wish that we would have a moral compass re-examine have children make sound decisions and thank you and i yieldld back. >> the gentle lady from california is now recognized for five minutes pretty. >> thank you very much, doctor, do you believe that all black lives matter pretty. >> of course i do. >> you have written it widespread abortion in the black population has become an acceptable form of racism in the
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united states today in a row clearly that abortion has affected the black community leading to a decrease in population numbers as well as many w consequences to women and children in many of the pathologies your word, unlike community can be at least partially attributed to the right and the families in the absence of fraternal involvement facilitated by abortion. and health complications hitting to death and despair can be caused by abortions. can you explain to me what your expertise and familiarity is with black families. >> i have an ace and a nephew that are both black. >> wonderful and thank you. and now how would you respond to this argument pretty. >> thank you so much for the question prayed between abortion and the is the substance of my
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own scholarship. billing away whichi is narratie of abortion is being used to advanced race grounds for overruling of our race and increased interest is narrative can be traced to clarence thomas is 2019 of the planned parenthood paper in kentucky and there they attempted to history of the movement in the united states and forth like a ministry upon which he relied is woefully incomplete and professor thomas was correct enough than in the 20s and 30s0' the united states was in the greatest of the eugenics and hot. [background sounds]. and white supremacy and however in advancing those interests and racial insecurity, they do not rely and abortion rather their efforts were bans on interracial marriage immigration laws and then kept certain minorities out of this country and most importantly, for our purposes forcible and corporative but those with so-called pains and.
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[inaudible]. there later redirected in the 1960 source for women who were receiving assistance is also to say that sterilizations rather than abortion was used of reproductive control and to the extent of abortions figured into this add up all, was in the effort to compel nativeborn to reproduce in greater numbers and following the civil warl there were considerable anxiety about the demographic character of this country and why middle-class women were using contraception abortions to limit the families to manageable sizes while immigrant women having babies in record numbers. in the replacement fear of being replaced by the thought to reverse the traffic by necking criminal bands on abortion throughout this country andn. finally, another some of the members of this committee are among the house republicans who voted against making sure of the use of federal holiday when you
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failed to takeou this modest blk experience in this country, it is very difficult to take seriously that your support that are unconstitutional abortion are animated by concern for black woman in our children. [inaudible]. >> thank you and i yield back. >> the gentleman from texas. it is recognized for five minutes. no i think you may be muted. >> can you hear me pretty okay thank you. this committee, committee of oversight reform, and i don't understand why we are now feeling compelled to oversee
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state governments and completely in our responsibility to a federal government and it is as if we've already considered hr 3765 so the old saying about putting the cartth before the horse, this is actually pack the horses already the barn and i don't understand were having hearing after the fact there's so many other things that we should be talking about but i really had to take issue with my colleagues with a questioning that that was incredibly to ask it witness a question and because the windows off off after about four seconds. i wouldn't like it if a republican member today. so doctor, i would like to give you the chance to actually answer that that you were asked a minute ago. >> i believe it was related to what i had written it about my concerns about abortion in the black community and again, this
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is not my lived experience, i'm not in any way trying to say that i understand the circumstances. but i do know is as stated earlier the 67 percent of black children it born to unmarried mothers and we all know that poverty is much much higher for an unmarried mother and is not unique to black men and their many men across thes country to allow a woman in the option of abortion and if they would choose to have the child, they let them in a single mother to raise the child. it's just the breakdown of the family and i think this we could probably chase this subject around all day like what is happened that families do not stay together but hopefully we can all acknowledge that for the sake of thee children, having to parents in the home to help each other out in the model behavior
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for the children and in many cases to bring in an income sufficient to keep the family out of poverty are all things that i think we would all aspire to. so the article that was quoted was just my attempt to explore some of the issues another might be linked to abortion like i mentioned earlier, i'm concerned that black woman have a metallic engine mortality three times that of white women and think there's number of factors we can oulook at including again, poverty, genetic factors and lack of support. it is a very nuanced conversation and i wish that people in the halls of power would have the ability to change things, were able to c do some f these nuances and give them
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consideration to whether the policies that that particular party promotes are always in the best interest of women, children, families, men, but, it is a big big discussion clearly. .it. >> absolutely. have you ever come across any head of studies or that could shed light on what the african-american publishing of this country wouldca be if there was not abortions in the country. ... ...
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if covid is a threat why do we let one and half million people we don't know into the country? they are not -- >> gentleman's time. >> thank you, sir. i yield back. >> thank you, mr. fallon. the chaire recognizes the children from georgia mr. johnson for five minutes. >> i to mr. chairman. within regular order i want
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mapped into speak and thank the chair holding this very important hearing which is very timely as well. i also want to thank each of the 11 witnesses for their testimony today. there's a reason why there were no men testifying today. it's because this topic ist' abt women's freedom, at a time when we have republicans putting forward the proposition that individual freedom is at risk because of covid-19 mask and vaccine mandates. those verye same republicans tak you out of the other side of their mouse, those are the sameu republicans the majority of whom are men who deny women the freedom to makeny medical decisions over their own bodies. how duplicitous and hypocritical is that? my payment is that abortion is a medical issue not a critical issue and a woman should have the freedom to choose whether to obtain this medical procedure
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subject to certain protections for a viable fetus that is grown from a fertilized egg. i believe roe v. wade provides a thoughtful framework to, the trimester analysis to this human race issue. pregnancy is a medical issue that is i female centric and an ideal world it would be only women who get to decide the nation's policies on this uniquely female medical procedure. or at least women would make up the majority of those who seek to control whether this medical procedure would be available to them. but, unfortunately, men have turned the issue of abortion into a political issue and then make up 73% of the deciders here in congress. and republican deciders in congress who are the main drivers politicizing abortions are 86% 86% male. so much for women to -- women's
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freedom. carry a philosophy of limited government to support laws that come into the private of women's healthcare decisions and that's why i was proud to vote for the women's health protection act legislation that codified roe v. wade we must act now to protect the freedom women have to make their own health care decisions over their own body. can you explain where abortion restrictions and bands fit in history of the state control of the body and reproductive autonomy of black women? >> thank you, congressman. i live in georgia so i'm very proud of you. >> thank you. >> i first have to remark on something that i couldn't believehe i heard out of
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somebody's mouth, that is that the what 18 million more black people in america when we've got a few hundred thousand at the border, , that they won't let in but that's just me that notices the hypocrisy and the ridiculousness of trying to make race-based arguments out of the people, out of the mouse of people who only enact race-based policies against black people. so i will just let that go. i think it's very important for us tous understand the intersection of racial justice policies and gender justice policies and reproductive justice policies. because you don'te understand y these bans on abortion are not about having more black and brown babies born. they want more white babies to be born because if they could restrict abortion to black and brown women, they would send limousines to take us to the clinic.
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i know that for a fact. and whether or not you believe me, look at the disparate treatment at our children get once they are born, whether they go through a school to prison pipeline or have a property tax funded school system where by definition the poor neighborhoods have poor schools. the weibel want to address gun violence, environmental problems, lack of clean drinking water. when you put it all together you can't separate this fight for abortion from the fight for voting rights for civil rights or environmental justice. and one thingng that infuriatese is they think we are too simplistic as if we are some enslaved people who can't do an analysis of what they are really out ofwhen they talk both sides of their mouths.
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like you say, they won't wear a mask to protect public health but they want too be in my bedroom and and my i body tellig me what to do with it? with that most private decision about whether to commit my life to another person's life. >> it's inconsistent. >> gentleman's time has expired. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. johnson. the gentleman from florida mr. donalds is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. foreh something. abortion and a decision any woman has to make with respect to abortion is probably one of the most emotional decisions that they will ever encounter. i've had an opportunity to talk with and meet with many women who have both gone to that decision and have actually executed it and had the abortion, and those who went up to the line and chose not to
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have the abortion, and it's heart wrenching. it is gut wrenching. but we have a problem. the oversight committee has no jurisdiction over what the state of texas has done, zero. this is the second time in this committee that we have listened to an open hearing amongst this full committee about something that the state of texas has done through their legislative capacity in their state. you see, the oversight committee's jurisdiction, we are the main investigative committee for all of the committees that exist here on capitol hill dealing with the executive branch with the united states government, the federal government. while we are talking about what's happened in texas with respect to their abortion law are what we did several months ago with the state of texas with respect to their election law, instead of actually covering, you know, covid-19 and the american rescue plan, which are on the tabs for this committee's website. the committee has not had one
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full hearing dealing with either of those two issues. the committee has not addressed to the growing concern and some of the growing scientific data that is coming up with respect to natural immunity versus accident immunity. the committee has -- vaccinated unity. the committee has not heard anything dealing with. the committee has not discussed the fact that there are american citizens who are being compelled to vaccinate or they will lose their job. whether they actually have immunities from covid-19 or not. the oversight committee has not brought that up once. we are not even discussing it. it's not even something that the chair one -- chairwoman is even thinking about bringing. we have not discussed the american rescue plan and a very clear data that exists that the american rescue plan has put downward pressure on small business owners to be able to hire people to come back to work in their businesses all across the country. we have definitely not discussed in southern border and the over 1.5 million people who have entered the country illegally
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this candle -- calendar year. we are not talking about the children being traffic i coyotes. we are not talking about the billions of dollars that drug cartels are making allowing people to cross our southern border illegally. last but not least, we have not talked about afghanistan in an open hearing. i want to acknowledge what the chairwoman said earlier today. yes, the committee has had a classified briefing on afghanistan. that briefing was a joke. there was nothing that was disseminated in that briefing that you couldn't find out on fox, cnn or msnbc. there was nothing in that briefing that if you go and read other classified reports, the classified briefing was not as detailed as the classified reports. and band -- afghanistan blew up in the face of the american people in the world. instead of holding afghanistan hearings in open session, where members of this committee, who are the main investigative arm of the united states house of representatives, i found to be laughable.
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we have not discussed, and i hope the chairwoman would actually hold a hearing on the fact that marine lieutenant colonel schiller is currently being held in the brig for expressing his viewpoint on social media that there must be accountability for what happened in afghanistan. yet at the same time, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, admiral millie, is walking around capitol hill while at the meantime having conversations with bob woodward. the oversight committee is not discussing that. what happens in the life of a woman is very personal, very personal. but what the state of texas does with the state of california does are state of new york does is what happens in those state legislatures and what those governors assigned. the purpose of this committee is not to go back and second-guess what states are doing with respect to their legislative power. because that is actually indirect contradiction to the principle of federalism upon which the united states government was actually created, and the united states constitution was signed. the framers of the constitution
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would have never signed a constitution if it allowed this body and any other bodies to go and second-guess legislation signed in several states. never would have happened. adam check -- madam chair, we have broad authority to do so many things. i only laid out a few today. but that's what she -- we should be investigating. we should not be going into the state of texas. we should not be using the committee's time to create, frankly, political sidetracks over the other issues that are existing in the united states today that the american people want resolution to and they do want people to be held accountable for. with that, i yelled back. >> the gentleman yields back. the gentleman is aware that we have a subcommittee on this committee that focuses only on covid-19, and has had a hearing yesterday, and many others on every aspect that you mentioned. and you may not have thought that the classified briefing
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should have been classified, but there were many government officials there giving information about what was happening in afghanistan, and the procedures and the process of helping our allies be removed from afghanistan and other custody status of the machinery that was left there. also very important. and the gentleman may not think that the fate of half the population of america is very important, i think it's very important. we have efforts trying to nationalize a woman's body, to make decisions about how their bodies are going to be used and whether or not they can make decisions about their own health care and their own reproductive rights. i find it extremely important. you may not think it's important. i would think that certainly half of america thinks it's important. certainly, every woman is very
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concerned about her ability to make decisions about her own health care. with that, i now call on the -- i am calling on the gentleman from maryland. the time is late and we have many more people who want to testify and ask questions. you are now recognized. >> i appreciate the opportunity. i want to echo what you just said about, first of all, the committee's capacity to keep an eye on all of the other issues that you just mentioned, but certainly the appropriateness of our taking up this issue today. and i want to salute the witnesses. i thank them for their time. it has been a long day. but the testimony has been powerful. i also want to thank our colleagues who spoke on the first panel for their very moving testimony and their leadership here in congress on this issue and many others. i also want to thank the
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abortion care providers in maryland that i had a chance to work with when i was an attorney in private practice. i spent many years representing the. -- them, and was able to see up close, firsthand, personally the amount of attention, diligence, professionalism, compassion that they brought to their jobs and their responsibilities. and that helped shape my perspective and commitment on this issue. i want to come back and emphasize something we've heard today. it's been sort of alluded to. i'm going to put a punctuation mark on it. we know that the wealthy, the white, the privileged, in many instances, will find their way around abortion restrictions
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like the ones we are seeing in texas. that's just the way of the world. and marginalized communities, people of color, will bear the brunt of these restrictions typically. that's, sadly, the story of the struggle of people from the beginning of time until now, and probably a good way into the future. but we can do something about that. and if you connect the dots, you recognize that it is the same communities that suffer from lack of access to health care, to environmental justice, to racial justice at the hands of police, to economic opportunity, and now to abortion care, are communities that lack political
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power. it's no accident that in texas, not only are we seeing these restrictions on abortion care, but we are seeing restrictions in the form of extreme partisan gerrymandering that's been undertaken by republicans in that state, voter suppression efforts which are designed to diminish the voices of certain communities. so, this is all connected. and we have to acknowledge that, be candid about, and find out ways to fight back against that agenda. we talk about choice. but there is an asymmetry here, because i've heard my colleagues on the other site talk about how a choice was made to take a child to term, to have a baby. choice is ok, as long as, for my
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colleagues on the other side, choice is ok as long as the choice is one that they agree you should make. but if you make a different choice, the agenda is to restrict that, limit that, ban that choice. choice is about agency, it's about a voice, justice, power. it's about mutual respect. so, i would like to come back to you. your comments have been most direct, i think the most powerful on the topic of power, agency, respect, and i'd like you to just comment on that one more time in the context of this idea of a woman's right to choose. >> i like the fact that we are now bringing attention to the overlooked power of women to
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make the choices that make sense for them and their family. because that's what people like to overlook, that we are not just talking about people capable of becoming pregnant as if we are vessels. we are citizens, human beings with full human rights. and there are people who are dedicated to thinking that we become less human or less citizen or less capable of thinking clearly when we become pregnant. by every one of these people came from a mother who was able to think, i was able to actually, you know -- who was able to actually, you know, have her rights protected. if she didn't have her rights protected, they should have been. so i'm fighting for myself, but i'm fighting for my family, my children, my grandchild, and everybody else, because we are not going to be subhuman
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citizens just because somebody thinks that they have the right to tell me what i should do in my bedroom -- could do in my bedroom and with my families in a way that doesn't have my family's best interest in mind. >>. thank you. >> thank you. the gentleman yields back. >> [indiscernible] >> mr. keller is back. ok. the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. keller, is recognized for five minutes. rep. keller: today's hearing, it's not about health care and it's not about protecting women or their children. today's hearing is about weaponizing a radical, pro-abortion agenda against states that seek to protect women and the unborn. when two healthy people enter a
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doctor's office and only one comes out, that's not health care. when roe v. wade was decided, the scientific consensus was that a baby had to be 24 weeks old to experience pain. however, we know that this is not true. that babies can feel pain as early as 12 weeks. unfortunately, this is why the u.s. had -- is only one of the very few countries that allow elective abortion as 20 weeks after life begins -- past 20 weeks after life begins. dr. scott, modern-day science and research have changed our knowledge on the true point of viability. do you believe the laws surrounding viability should be updated as well? dr. scott: absolutely. i think we need to acknowledge the signs that we have expensed since -- experienced since roe
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and amend our abortion legislation accordingly. rep. keller: thank you. and also, we've heard in today's hearing that abortions have gotten safer over the years. i can't imagine how that's possible when the baby doesn't come out of the procedure. but when we are talking about the procedure having gotten safer over the years, is that true, that it's gotten safer for the mother? dr. skop: it has gotten safer. along the way, our surgical skills have improved, are antistatic skills have improved, antibiotic, we just have evidence-based medicine that's more advanced than it was back at the time of roe. but it should be noted that, although it's commonly stated that 5000 to 10,000 women died from septic abortions yearly
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before roe, that number is not reflected in any of the medical literature at the time. the american medical association, the cdc document one or a couple hundred deaths, which is still way too many, but it was not as dangerous, even prior to roe, but that was just used as a talking point in order to get the procedure legalized. rep. keller: can you explain if there are any physical risks associated with chemical abortions? dr. skop: the biggest immediate risk is not passing the tissue completely, having a hemorrhage requiring a surgery. there was a large chinese study i believe that looked at women who had medical abortions who failed, who needed surgery, and in that small group, they found a 361% increased risk of preterm birth and a subsequent -- in a subsequent pregnancy.
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additionally, studies have shown us that independent of what the rat thinks about the abortion, missile crist on increases the rat behaviors that are reflective of anxiety and depression. many of the deaths that have occurred after this have been from an unusual type of sepsis from an organism. both impair the immune system of a woman. and so, put them at a higher risk of infections. rep. keller: if i can just ask another question. on top of the series physical risks associated with medical abortions, we know that the process is long and can be emotionally traumatizing for expecting mothers. can you speak on the emotional impact this process can have on mothers? dr. skop: sure. one thing that's not really
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discussed is an eight week fetus is about the size and shape of a gummy bear. it is clearly human. you can see arms, you can see legs and you can see a head. women are passing those in their toilet, and they are seeing their unborn baby. they are not going to tell anybody that they saw that, but can you imagine the emotional trauma of seeing your own child? rep. keller: i cannot imagine that. i think it's clear, now more than ever, that every life is precious and worth protecting. i would just urge my colleagues to stand for life. thank you and i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. the gentlelady from illinois, miss kelly, is recognized for five minutes. rep. kelly: thank you. i want to thank the witnesses for their powerful testimony today. i have been on this hearing from the beginning and it's just interesting some of the stuff i've heard. one thing, the conversation about how the witness has been treated, i've been on this
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committee for nine years and i've seen horrendous treatment of democratic witnesses. i don't know if the person saying it is very new but there's been her in this treatment. i do agree that witnesses should be treated with respect. when we talk about science and scientific advancement, we use it as a convenient, but when we want to talk about climate change and vaccinations, we don't talk about what the signs is sank -- science is saying. along with the ciccone and state law, harmful restrictions have left too many individuals without equal access to abortion care. nearly 29 million women covered by federal health insurance plans or treated by federal providers lack insurance coverage for abortion services. this includes almost 14 million low income women who access health care through medicaid, half of whom are women of color. how do federal abortion coverage
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restrictions disproportionately harm people with lower income? thank you for being honest and straightforward and speaking truth to power. >> thank you for your question. i was fortunate enough to be in washington, d.c. in 1970 when i needed an abortion as a student at howard university. washington, d.c. legalized abortion in 1970, three years before roe v. wade. i was able to go to have a perfectly safe late-term abortion, by the way. three years later, roe was passed, and then a few years later, the height amendment, which restricts the use of several funds for abortion services for people whose abortion care -- health care -- is provided by the federal
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government and that's women in the military, women who get their services through the indian health services, poor women and all those things. ever since the amendment was enacted, people whose health care was provided by the federal government have been treated as second-class citizens. and they are discriminated because of how their health care is provided, not their medical condition, but because they are either serving our country in the military, on a reservation where they have to use the ihs, or poor women, or in the peace corps and those kind of things. i should be a constitutional violation to set up a second-class citizenship for people simply through a regulation. this is something that we, as black women, have been fighting since it was proposed, since it was enacted.
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our above all campaign is fighting to remove that amended. -- amendment. we really should not have it legal to set up a class of people as second-class citizens. >> i am proud to cosponsor the each act, a bill that will reverse the amendment and other related federal abortion coverage restrictions. how would the each act impact their communities -- the communities? >> thank you for your question. but i would like to say i think it's a question better answered by a legal expert that we are fortunate to have on the spinal, if that's ok -- on this panel, if that's ok? >> sure. >> it is my understanding that the texas law would basically make it, would provide a cause of action against any individual who aids someone in performing
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an abortion or seeking an abortion. it is written incredibly broadly. this could mean that the barista who overhears you speaking about your abortion could take a cause of action, file suit against you. anyone who provides age through these abortion funds or even donates to planned parenthood and you are in the country could ostensibly be a defendant in a lawsuit. because the law is so broadly written and that is purposeful to dismantle that network of support for a pregnant person. >> thank you. i would submit to documents and the record we are presenting indisputable evidence that abortion is safe, common and essential component of health care. -- on behalf of 25 medical organizations demonstrating a concrete medical consensus of opposition to abortion restrictions. the second is a statement with more than 62,000 members.
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acog's as the nations's explorative body in the development of standards of care for women's health. it has evidence-based clinical guidelines developed by experts in the field. safe, legal abortion is a necessary component of comp rents of health care and government imposed obstacles marginalize abortion services, from routine clinical care that are harmful to people's health and well-being. any statement to the contrary in today's hearings are not based on science or medical evidence. i yield back. >> the gentlelady yields back. the gentleman from michigan is now recognized for five minutes. rep. lawrence:, thank you, madam chair. i just want to start off my short period fo time here to put it simply, antiabortion policies do not stop abortion. what it does is stops safe and legal abortions, were a woman
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can go and get an abortion safely in a medical, safe medical procedure. let's be clear, when we talk about abortion, there has always been abortion for a number of reasons. and i'd like to preface my comments, god blessed me with two pregnancies. i was married, i had resources and i was healthy, and i gave birth to two healthy children. but i will never step down from the fact that if i were a victim of rape, insist or if i had to look my husband in the eye and say it's the baby or me, that i would have a choice. and the ability for a woman to make a decision about the care or the ability to bring a child in this world is something i do not feel rests with the government. and it is interesting to me when i hear the debate about what the
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care and the stress level i heard the witness talk about. have you ever examined and looked at the impact of children that are born three -- into a situation where there was no care? we know that foster children, the rate of foster children are growing, children born addicted, all of these things that, unfortunately, many people call themselves antichoice are not pro-life for those who are living and walking on earth. i have a question, and it is, we know that ms. ross, i will ask you, how has the aca helped improve access and health outcomes for women? >> when i was working at the
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national reproductive -- national women of color reproductive -- we work interested in passing the affordable care act because it widely expanded health care options for the american public and immediately had an impact of providing health care for many people who otherwise could not afford it. and unfortunately, it took us from the 1930's until now to even do that modest health care reform. and we still are not through because we know that every human being has a human right to health care. and one of our pathways is going to be to achieve universal health care. once we do, we will make sure that people who need the health care, who've made does who may be afraid to access it because they don't have sedition -- citizenship papers or are afraid to reveal to their abusers that they need prenatal care, we will cover everybody. we are going to expand the
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universal health care system for which the affordable care act is on its [indiscernible] i'm sorry, that is my airline trying to reach me. i am here already. it has been a real benefit and a human right that is too long overdue, but we need more and we are not going to stop asking for more. >> thank you. i want the record to reflect that approximately 700 women, mostly of color, die each year from childbirth-related cases. however, when we bring forth maternal mortality bills and laws, i don't see my colleagues on the others of the aisle with the same passion that they have for women who are dying in childbirth. when we talk about programs like snap, so once a baby is born, how do we feed them, and how do
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we use the title x family planning program that would allow women to have access to medical resources to allow them to plan their families so that they can give birth at a time where they are mentally, physically, and economically ready to care for that child? we hear insults on our social network over how we are taking care of people. well, you know what? if we had more family planning, not abortion, family planning, we could reduce the amount of money that we spend in the social network. with that, i yield back. >> the gentlelady yields back. the vice chair of the committee, mr. gomez, representative gomez from california, is recognized for five-minute. rep. gomez: thank you, madam
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chair. i want to also just add to what my colleague, miss lawrence, just said. the republicans, the other side of the aisle, they love to talk about life. but they talk about life, what i call the bookends of a person's life, there birth and death. they don't really pay much attention to the life that occurs in between. and every single time that they are given an opportunity to choose life, of how somebody is going to live their life, they vote no. when they have an opportunity to expand medicaid, which 50% of all births are paid through medicaid, they vote no. and what does that do? well, it has a disproportionate and discriminatory effect on people of color, mostly black
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women, who are four times as likely as a white woman to die of childbirth than their white counterparts. but you know what? they are the party of life. but yet, when they have an opportunity to choose life of a black woman, to expand medicaid and postpartum care, they vote no. so, their hypocrisy that they choose life is astounding at best, and cynical at worst. if they want to choose life, they should care about how that person is living. they should vote to make the child tax credit that we helped expand and make it refundable, they should vote yes, because then you are lifting 50% of the children out of poverty. we should choose life, not just at the bookends, but in between. this is what the republicans have always done. when you are born, after that,
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it is up to you, you are on your own. pull yourself up by the bootstraps, even though you might not even have baby shoes or boots to pull yourself up by. and that's if your mother survived the birth. i find it always offensive when they talk about that. so, let's go on to sb-8. and we know that sb-8 is not the only way the texas state government has sought to undermine abortion access. long before sb-8, texas and many other states deployed targeted restrictions on providers, or travel laws, to curtail access -- trap laws, to curtail access. how have these laws affecting your ability to deliver abortion care? >> as i stated previously, these laws affect every single aspect of my care. i did want to speak, if it's ok,
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about a conversation that happened early relating to black maternal mortality that i can't let go. that conversation between the good doctor and i believe representative fallon discussed how black maternal mortality as a result of genetic factors in poverty. this is an incredibly disturbing to hear from a physician. we know that race is a social construct. it is not genetically coded. to say that genetic factors lead to increased rates of black maternal mortality is actually a direct extension of the eugenics movement, which the other side seems to be very much against, but continues to use their talking points. rep. gomez: thank you. it's interesting, i always talk about the randomness of birth. that god doesn't give, you know, anyone population, he doesn't make them smarter, he doesn't make them more talented, he doesn't give all the attributes
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of what it means a healthy and successful life to one population versus another. that it is within the law of nature to be distributed, right. but, for some reason, they believe that that's not the case. and if it is randomized, if people all have talents and abilities, then why do we see the disparities that we actually see? >> the reason black maternal mortality rates are so high are a result of white supremacist systems in our medical institutions. if we work together, all of us, to dismantle white supremacy, we would actually be seeing better health outcomes for black people, indigenous people and immigrants. rep. gomez: that's exactly the point. that all these health outcomes that are met -- negative for black women, minorities and
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indigenous people are a result of policy decisions that have been made for generation upon generation. and if we actually have different decisions made, we can change the outcomes. not because somebody's genetics, not because of where they live, it's because of how we make different policy decisions to get different results. my time is up and i yield back, messenger. -- madam chair. >> the gentleman yields back. i now recognize the gentleman from kentucky, who is recognized for five. >> thank you, madam chair. i would like to begin by asking unanimous consent to submit for the record a few letters. first letter is from the students for life action expressing support for life. secondly, madam chair, i would
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like to submit to the record all of the letters that we have sent to you requesting hearings on various topics that republicans on the oversight committee feel are of the utmost importance. and lastly, madam chair, i would like to submit to the record all these letters that republicans on the oversight committee have sent to the biden administration requesting information, none of which have been responded from the administration. and again, that's the role of this committee, to provide oversight for the executive branch. so without objection, i ask for unanimous consent to some into the record. >> without objection. rep. comier: dr. skop, thank you so much for being here today. let me apologize for how some on the others of the aisle, in particular the men, have treated
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you during the hearing. i would like to remind everyone that you are an ob/gyn, nonattorney -- not an attorney. you are not an expert on amicus briefs or any of the other questioning that they were asking you. i would like to give you my time to respond to anything that you feel hasn't been adequately addressed or any information that you perhaps disagreed with that was stated by anyone else in this hearing. and with that, i will turn it over to you. dr. skop: there's two statements i want to make. one was this recent discussion and that i think, maybe i misunderstood, were you trying to say that there are not genetic differences amongst different ethnic groups? because i think the cdc would probably beg to differ, because there is quite easy to locate evidence that there are some
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groups that have a higher incidence of obesity, some that have higher incidence of diabetes, some that have higher incidence of hypertension. are you saying that you don't think that that's the case? >> i mean -- race is not genetically coded in the way that you are saying. are of those -- all of those are conditions of white supremacy, not of someone's inferior genetic capacity. dr .skop: i thought we were here to discuss science. >> white supremacy comes up a lot in this hearing. in this committee. dr. skop: i would love to hear how that works. >> it is climate change and everything around here but go ahead. dr. skop: i think i might have forgotten the other thought i had. i appreciate you guys have given
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me a lot of opportunities to talk today and thank you for hearing me. >> madam chair, i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. i just want to really say that everyone has given incredible testimony today. and i need to read something in. who else? is there still someone? no, this hearing has been going on since 3:00, we still haven't heard from everyone? and that gentle lady from massachusetts is a leader on this issue in the women's caucus and on this committee. ms. presley, you are now recognized. rep. presley: thank you. the right to abortion guaranteed by roe v. wade has only been a wreck in name only. abortion ban, including coverage
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bans, keep abortion out of reach for millions, specifically low income, black, indigenous, communities of color who already face systemic barriers to health care. professor ross, i will afford you the opportunity to elaborate on the roots and the impacts of white supremacy and how abortion bans like this are rooted in patriarchy, white supremacy and perpetuate systemic racism. could you speak to that? the ways in which abortion bans are rooted in patriarchy, white supremacy and perpetuates systemic racism? ok. >> is that -- i don't know if that's directed towards me.
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>> actually, you know what, since you started with that, doctor, will you pick up on that? >> i'm sure. and i would like to hear from professor ross. yes, from the founding of this country, reproductive cohersion is to create more people to be slaved. children were separated from indian families and sent to indian boarding schools as a method of genocide and control over those families. and that history continues to today. we see that history time and time time in how our medical structures are created and how we actually think about race and medicine, how we actually have physicians that think that high blood pressure is because of your race and not because of the stress of racism in our country. >> thank you very much. mrs. ease in your caps frk the
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texas equal access fund, you're on the front lines in the fight to insure abortion access for all. we know that there are some common financial challenges that your clients face as they attempt to access abortion care including childcare, transportation, housing, people being forced to travel out of state. can you speak to how the hyde amendment pushes those already out of reach further out of reach when it comes to access? speak to the racism and discriminatory implications of it, please. >> thank you for your question. absolutely. the hyde amendment is in place as a tool to discriminate against minorities because people that are wealthy will always have access to abortions. even in their case, i think their access should be easier because abortion should be easy to access no matter what. but the wealthy will always be
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able to access abortion. they can afford to lose wages for two weeks or so -- there are things that people that have more money are able to do. however, for minorities, for people in rural areas for minor, for trans folks, for any sort of vulnerable community i want to remind people it's not just that women are having abortion, we're aclueding a lot of people from the conversation. i want to bring it back to that. >> i'm sorry. thank you. thank you. and so again, given these cost prohibitive barriers here and the impact of things like the hyde amendment which push care further and further out of reach, abortion funds have been standing in the gap of that. but it's long past time that congress eliminate the hyde amendment. they passed a budget without hyde but the senate needs to
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follow suit and this moment demands it. doctor, are they limbed to those residing in the state where they're in effect. can you share how the ripple effects may be impacting broad what abortion access across the nation? >> yes, thank you so much for asking that. this week i was in oklahoma city providing care not only for people in oklahoma but for people from as far as san antonio, texas that's over eight hours to drive for care. ordinarily when i provide care in oklahoma city, maybe 7% to 10% are from the texas area and specifically the north texas area this week, 70% of the people i took care of were from texas that means also that those clinic spaces and appointments are moving outs side of the state as well. i would also like to remind people that prior to s.b.a. texas was a place where people would come for abortion specifically from louisiana that is pushing that care from louisiana outside of texas as
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well. >> thank you. gentlelady's time has expired. without objection. ms. frier is asked to participate in today's hearing and she is now recognized. >> thank you, madam chair and thank you to our witnesses. thank you for allowing me to wave on to the committee today. as a mom and a pediatrician and a woman, this issue is very important to me. i'm really glad that we had a couple of physicians here today to discuss this critical personal and medical matter. and i wanted to just start with a little level setting some of a quick yes or no. doctor, thank you for coming today. you are a practicing ob/gyn in texas. >> yes. >> and a little bit of in oklahoma? >> yes. and doctor when you were
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gettering medical degree, i presume you and dr. scott both took an oath to take care of your patients, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> in a typical ob/gyn practice ha has full scope of care, how many of those patients who are newly patient show up before six weeks? >> in a typical ob/gyn practice, the typical entry is at around 14 weeks. >> and that makes sense because many people don't know they're pregnant. thank you for clarifying that. you know, i'd like to talk about my perspective on again, as a doctor like you who has taken an oath to protect my patients and all three of us have take than oath. can i just clarify. who is the patient that you take an oath to protect? >> any patient that seeks care from me. the woman. >> the person who seeks care
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from you. i was going to ask dr. scott the same thing so that it is the woman she's taken care of. and in my view abortion exists in many ways to protect women, healthcare decision that a woman makes with her doctor. and frankly if women can be trusted to raise children, teach children, doctor children, they can certainly be trusted to make or we can be tested to make our own healthcare decisions and we certainly deserve the the autonomy to makes those decisions. pregnancy and childbirth make no mistake prevent -- present really big risks, risk to the woman's health, to her life, to her independence, perhaps to her education, her ability to feed her other children, to keep a job, to make ends meet. and frankly, even sadly safety from abuse from a partner or -- or a parent. and as a doctor, i am horrified by this new law in texas and
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others like it which essentially babb abortions but this one creates a system of modern day bounty hunters, neighbor, ex-boyfriends anyone with a grudge to enforce state law and profit from it to the tune of $10,000 or more each. and these laws undermine the oath that we take to our patients and that trust. and it criminalizes doctors in the process. you know, these are politicians and baiting the exam room and telling doctors how to do our jobs and frankly encouraging us, making us violate an oath that we have taken. finally, i just wanted to mention, let let's not kid ourself, abortion will continue but with laws like these it will not be safe and it will not be legal and make no mistake this puts women's leaves at risk just like 50 years ago when women would die from this. and it takes away women's freedom chart the course of their leaves, which we all deserve to have. so as the only pro-choice woman
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doctor in in congress, i just want you to know thatly always stand with women against draconian nonmedically justified barriers to women's access to abortion. and i sure hope that others like you will as well. >> thank you. >> thank you. i yield back. >> the gentlelady yields back. ms. escobar is asked to participate in this hearing. con congresswoman, you are now recognized. >> chairwoman maloney, thank you so much for the privilege of waving on to your committee. i'm so grateful for being here today. i also want to express my deepest gratitude to our witnesses especially those who have hung through the entire hearing, a very lengthy hearing with so much to discuss. madam chairings i asked for unanimous con consent to enter the record a number of statement from texas women, from providors, from nonprofits and organizations who will be
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impacted by this draconian law? >> without objection and thank you for submitting them. >> thank you, madam chair. i respect el paso, texas, a community on the safe and secure beautiful u.s.-mexico border. and i want to say a couple of things about the state that i live in and where you -- where we live in. in texas the very republicans who have pushed this draconian piece of legislation have the audacity to call themselves pro-life. however, their actions don't connote any respect or reverence for life whatsoever in texas we have an unacceptably high maternal morbidity rate, absolutely unacceptable. and republicans who have been in charge have been sitting on their hands as women continue -- pregnant women continue to die.
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children, texas children live in generational equity and poverty because in texas, the level of education a child gets depends on the zip code that they live in. and we live in a state that not only limits children's access to healthcare and their family's access to healthcare but we live in a state that is trying to eliminate access to healthcare all together through its lawsuits against the affordable care act we live in a state with a governor who prohibits mask mandates in texas schools in order to protect the leaves of texas children. we live in a state that was essentially -- with republican they're is essentially silent as the prior administration separated children from their parents under some of the most heinous, anti-immigrant poll says that we've ever seen in our generation.
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we -- we live in a state where republicans oppose access to sex education and contraception in order to prevent unwanted pregnancy. here in congress, so the problem is not just texas republicans. here in congress, the same republicans who support sb-8 and this draconian legislation unanimously and frequently and repeatedly oppose pro child pro-family legislation such as the child tax credit access to childcare, access to housing, and a number of other democratic-led policies that help enrich and save and -- and create healthy families. they oppose these policies. this is not what i would call pro-life. we should not allow them to get away with calling themselves pro-life. pro-birth, maybe in some cases, but certainly not pro-life.
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doctor, we know that these draconian laws do not end abortion. in fact, we heard earlier, the first panel, we heard from my colleague congresswoman barbara lee what she had to do in order to have access to a choice that she was forced to make, a very personal choice that she had to disclose here in front of all all of congress and in front rough the american public. but she talked about the way her pierce, were dying because they could not have access to safe, legal abortions. can you tell me as republicans seek to turn back the clock by decades on women and women's access to care, what will it do to women who will take their reproductive health care into their own hands? >> thank you for that question. i trained in el paso for four years and my child was born there as well.
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so thankfully today, that's we have safe medications that people can access. it can be safely taken. and you don't need a physician to take them so the concern with laws that criminalize or legalize abortion today is not so much around the safety because some people will be able to access safe medications but a >> we know already black and brown bodies are over criminalized and over policed in this country and we know people that seek those medications when they are illegal are going to suffer the consequences through the criminal legal system. i want to tell a story about our last legislative session in texas, a bill was introduced that would make providing abortion care felony and give the physician and patient the death penalty.
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that bill didn't make it very far but that very week it was being discussed a patient came and saw me and said i know i'm going to getthe death penalty for this but i need this abortion . i provide this care and i'm trusted to provide this care to themi do it out of the duty to care for my neighbors . that really is as a mom hit me very hard. that people know or might be confused about what the law is but still want to come in for that care no matter the consequences and i think it's important to understand that abortion and birth are not separate . they are part of 'ra continuum and as long as people have had births they had abortion . i'm out of time and i yield back. >> your time has expired and in closing i want to thank all the panelists for their incredible remarks and insights.
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i want to commend my colleagues for participating in this important conversation . we will be adjourning but before we adjourned to quickly take care of onepiece of administrative business . at the request of the ranking member this place will now serve as ranking member of the subcommittee on civil rightsand civil liberties . without objection, so ordered . without objection all members will have five legislative days in which to submit extraneous materials and written questions for the witnesses to the chair which will be forwarded to the witnesses for theirresponse . i'd ask our witnesses to please respond as promptly as they are able and with that this important hearing is adjourned .
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>>. [inaudible]
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>> so students from low income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. comcast supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy . watch book tvs coverage of the 21st annual national book festival on sunday, the virtual event hosted by the library of congress teachers
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offer discussions plus live in segments. at 2 pm eastern, joseph ellis talks about his book the cause, the americanrevolution and its discontent . in 1773 to 1783. he'll join us live at 2:30 to take your calls and tweets. 3 pm a discussion about the opioid epidemic with rad and keep author of empire of pain and eric air author of mallik. after the discussion on after strategies will join us live. 4 pm a look at russia featuring catherine belted with her book and joshua yahoo offer of between two fires. at 4:30 p.m. eastern the history of women and medicine with jennifer on europe author of the doctors blacklist and a the a campbell with women in white coats. at 5 pm kansas democratic representative charisse davis talks about her book charisse's big voice .
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watch book tvs coverage of the 21st annual national book festival. sunday at 2 pm eastern. on the tv on c-span2. >> next israeli prime minister naftali bennett and the palestinian president mahmoud abbas both spoke at the un general assembly innew york city on the current conflict in the middle east . >> i get the floor to the prime minister of palestine to an address by the head of state. >> thank you mister president. i it is my pleasure to introduce to you the recorded statements of president mahmoud abbas, president of the state of palestine.


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