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tv   Michael Malone The Big Score  CSPAN  November 23, 2021 4:36pm-5:54pm EST

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>> cspan on the go, watched today's biggest political events live or on-demand anytime anywhere on a new mobile video at, cspan now, talk highlights and is it is c-span radio, and discover new podcasts, all for free download cspan now today >> did you wonder what it would be like to go back in time to read the history and benefits from his lessons to shape the future while today we have the usual opportunities in 1985, one of the first reporters of the tech industry chronicled and when it began decades long story of people and companies in this book it counts the history "the big score" and a threat beginning and at a time where it was really influential and
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compelling account not only of the valley but also proved to be draw for entrepreneurs. in the first president of ebay now social and renew your said, michael malone stories captures the culture in many outside personalities and if how to create this massive and depiction of silicon valley and the calling card and for me and countless other entrepreneurs and investment in tech in the vision of the big score, and the billion-dollar being published and more please partner with michael malone nbc reporter as well for today's conversation of the "the big score" and is capturing contemporary history and first-hand experience and as he writes, the internet or new creative tech history archives in the narratives but i was there i know how now half the valley and the fruit trees and i
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can remember what is like to shake a hand in steve jobs in my own interest playground and play the first atari games unit pretty and so at a time when tech companies influence continued to grow and the debate tsabout positive and negative effects braided and one with the benefit promote longview and from the literal days to the day when they host a weekly podcast, he brings exactly the kind of perspective today days sconversation it printed questin such as what is one of the forgotten stories from the early years of silicone valley would be valuable for us to learn from today and connections about the valleys history of issues today and its future trajectory and what about the valleys that involved and what most concerns you today. were very pleased and would collaboration with the - and connected to the thin tech
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companies in the highest valued private companies. and published his book about the economic exams and the traditional, five numbers. and michael malone is an author, television producer and dean's executive professor at the e university. and 1963, silicon valley, 29, aged when he finished writing the big score, and 800 the number of pages in the first draft of "the big score" and the and 25 books written including intel trinity. and moderating today's conversation it andni were thrilled to have on the stage scott, is an emmy award-winning reporting for nbc bay area for a report on building a business and technology and also podcasts partner the silicone valley
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overviewand will, and we are sog forward to your conversation. take it away. >> thank you so much marguerite and welcome everyone and michael malone, welcome to you. >> is great to be here pretty. >> and this time i get to ask you the questions. and folks please allow this informal scott and are really not capable ofma anything else. [laughter] >> this is an honor to be here for many reasons and mike you know i'm aea big fan of yours ad as a tech reporter i've been fording in your shoulder years but also computer history museum and some of the earliest stories idea does the silicon valley reported work and you've allowed me to do the programming they are due do many interviews there do decal both individually and with young children to see
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the exhibits and i appreciated that so it'spp an honor to be associated with that and mike. >> i'm deeply honored and not done many things at the museum over years ago back so far, i remember when they would make a decision to move to silicon valley and even further back, on the land where the museum is now, as a ten -year-old i used to use my bb gun to hunt ground squirrels. >> it is a great honor and really thrilled to know what your doing with the museum now and repositioningit it and movig into the future we need it right now pretty. >> excellent everything that you just said, the past and present in the future and that's what we are going to get into and i would love technology obviously i love silicon valley and i love history and i'm not ashamed to say and we will get into a whole lots of these today.
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in first of all of my, were doing this on one of those days when people say, over you doing glenn. he is after all 1969, that was hiwhen you land on the moon andt was literally a lifetime ago and going back to 1985 in silicon valley terms, going back maybe three or four lifetimes given how fast the pace of technology changes and yes, were going to go into your predictions and everything but i was taken and when i went back and read some of the stuff with how similar a lot of stuff is pretty rethinking the more change the more it was staying the same pretty. >> well we have been through about ten by times since i wrote the book. i find myself at this point driving down el camino or heading out the computer history museum in a flashing between
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multiple periods of c time and when the computer is and facebook is an google or farm fields, and i can remember that i can remember when nasa was adding more buildings out there i saw the shoreline and steve is pulling the amphitheater is everything that all seems to be here simultaneously, the past and the present. in the valley, is kind of the same way. it has not changed. in fundamental ways but it has changed completely that very very different place producing very very different products and services and have some of the characteristics of the valley, survived. is still that same hard-driving entrepreneurial community read and instead of meeting in the spacer meeting to plot the creation of their companies with her still plotting the creation
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of new companies. >> it struck me the rock stars of the time of the book weren't that ship executives in the big industry with the chp industry that lasted for quite some time and then there was quite a period of time when chips for sort of on the back burner and they work everywhere but they were not getting all of the preo let's fast-forward all the way to the past literally a couple months, all of a sudden, there's a huge ship shortage that we are talking about and not only iphones but automobiles. and it's now front-page news you know, driverless cars and all of a sudden, i am thinking that you must be having déjà vu is front and center again. >> you cannot get the most popular vehicle in the united states, at 150 because they cannot get that chips the micro
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processors for the engine computer and then tells you something very profound it is something that we forget because we are now you know the food chain, we are about seven levels down. doing apps and that sort of thing theel driverless cars butt the very top of that. many, hardships, the semiconductor is the reason is called silicon valley even though we don't make silly thing here anymore. the chips matter because everythinggoes from there and we get excited aboutm. the latest w technologies the product and the companies but in the end, it all depends on getting us chips built and right now they've not been getting built pretty. >> right in it makes sense to see for different reasons, zoom stock in an all-time high or, facebook stock near all-time high but these materials and look at all, and chips are sexy again and didga you imagine that you know, 35 years ago and could
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you imagine that we were talking about today is hot again 35 years from now you know how quickly the valley changed pretty. >> they got embedded in wrote was a reallyyan got embedded and then you file software on top of that o, the chips are so hidden away the last time that we thought about chips was when they said intel design is a great marketing campaign now are realizing that everything depends upon it from one of the battles loss and with that semiconductors, where those strays now and very dangerous time because 80 percent of the world chips beingan made in tain and china is making noises towards taiwan and they found of the chokepoint of the world economy and it's right there in this paths. as a scramble out by intel and even by the taiwan's to get over to the station start to create
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fast braided that will take two or three years and billions and billions of dollars to get us up to the point we were secure again and making our own semiconductor devices so this is a very recent time right now read. >> i wanted to essence your brother no, geopolitical situation right now and technology are so important is like politics on capitol hill and the technology are so inclined is every other week that there's an antitrust hearing or something and it is all to get this will between global politics and silicon valley tech and what was it like in 1985, are we a little bit more on the scene the shadows sort of doing our own thing back then. >> unnoticed would probably be the right to word to describe it, concrete tilt up buildings in the middle of orchards and you know, very few freeways, el camino was the main
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and during that time, the valley operated at pretty much independently of the rest of the united states and there were no famous people and 1985, i mean, jobs was in his little building and he had not gotten his great profile by tom will get in esquire magazine the valley was not noticed and there were extraordinary things but we were still relatively operating independently of the influence of washington dc and pretty much making our own rules in greater as you go back another decade atlanta effort named the town silicon valley heard and actually introduced this area to leaders of electronic news and that is how will everybody new hp since the 30s but for the most part, this was not seen as enclave of high technology, it's
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just starting to be a keep in mind, apple in the book was published i think a week before apple introduced the macintosh rated so apple was pretty well-known up at the apple three, had been a disaster and s opposed to change the world, no big deal it turned out. so the world would change a week after i finished just book which is this space of most contemporary historians and we finish something and raven up and then it's all obsolete the next week. >> and even with apple revolutionizing the computer game, facebook was a very small rocket share certificates really, they're kind of hip and then in california and make you have one of these machines but not everybody does. but was a turning point, i remember in the late '90s, the stock market really brought
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everybody to silicon valley but was there a turning point before that where we removed the tech industry from the shadows into the light, visit the mac or more of a gradual move. >> i don't think it was mike because mac did not get a real strong, the movies about it now but what is introduced, i was there and it was a big deal but not that big of a deal because of a a lot of questions about i, a mouse, tiny screen did not have enough memory and what will you use it for and it really didn't get fixed until adobe came along. now i think the two turning points were one, apple going public in the apple ipo, and everyone talked about that. he made a bunch of people that otherwise would never been that successful really wealthy. apple of the time, you gave the founders stock like it was jellybeans and no restrictions
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on the kind of stuff now but back then, a lot of people made billionaires overnight like secretary senate the guy who walked water the office class and that sort of thing and then suddenly, all my goodness the technology is hot and with a lot of money and we can all get in on it and i think to the point that i people in the newsroom the mercury news, coming up to me in the hallways and saying, hey can you give me some stuff in apple and i said will i believe that is against the law. in the second event i think occurred you know right about the time i was writing this book and that was the japanese and they came rolling in with chips that were better than ours read and i was at that event with the guy from hp showed equality charts of silicon valley chips versus japanese chips and it was
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an eye-opener, it was astounding in the japanese, so much better and cheaper and more reliable with everything else in the valley was just, knocked on his rear and and that's when they went back to dc and they started doing congressional testimony in all of that became the face of silicon valley the whole japanese battle with japan and all of that, lasted for a few years, they had to affects input silicon valley really in the map is a crucial part of the market economy and our competitiveness but it also started it when i think has been not pleasant history on the valley dealing with washington dc and with the feds is inevitable that because are so big and the biggest companies in history of the world but back then, they really derided having to do it and if you remember david packard we come back a few years before that from being deputy secretary
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of defense when he said, never again, never going to washington again and would not even do a defense contracts read he was so bitter by the experience that was the attitude of the valley and after that, now we have people running for office and you know, begin critical contributions and candidates and the valley iss interlocking with dc now there's no getting away from it. it is just going tod get deeper and deeper. >> you mentioned the money and sort of that spotlight that shine because of the apple that raised up two things. what i remember shortly after that, steve jobs obtained rockstar status and part of that was almost a sort of super casual almost poverty-stricken look, he was told the magazine covers barefoot, in a long time there wases a sign in fast forwd
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it to what i would say perhaps the second mostt influential was netscape and after they went public another spotlight on market in recent news the cover of time magazine, also was barefoot and we ushered in not only the rockstar ceo was sort of the casual rock store ceo and by the time he published his book, was anyone dressed the way you're dressing right now. i mean, honestly in terms of executives, because we became not only the place where money was in all of this technology but also the place where we dress more casually rated. >> the named one of the chapters in the book t-shirt tech is because it was such a new phenomenon read was always a greath disconnect between the look and the reality rated because these work hard charging people you know and i sat in with jobs in the infamous 1984 l
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report and he really did go wash his feet in the toilet. he would massage his fees paid by flushing the toilet when his feet and another that was interesting with the guy sitting across from him was an ambitious driven guy just like everybody else leading silicon valley and it was basically statement that i'm not one of them and not of the generation we are the new crowd and wewd will dress and behave the way we want. as much a message as his lifestyle read and obviously has been copied ever sense of until the '90s when all of a sudden w meetings which two jeans and black t-shirts. >> we will take questions from you guys in a little bit but
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john massey said, don't knock 128 and back, we use this project online is a scheduled myth remember rated. >> i know who he is mash. >> i love thatt reference and it just hasn't hit the mainstream quite yet. >> yes it is interesting because the next book after the someone inside for a couple of months and following him under ipo and i learned so much about human nature and how's lives change and everything else in that is kind of well ipos are emblematic event of silicon valley and for a long time, every business plan said we will then sell to google but in the last few years, the ipos taking off again, is become ipo valley once more and that is fun because i think that it is
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democratized. people get to participate in the process of creation making wealth and i think is much as entrepreneurship is part of the valley pretty. >> it almost seems like a for a while there, not only startups keeping money to begin a as they call them, but if your chip company are looking to intel to buy you, if you were a social media company or instagram you are thinking, somebody come in and give us a billion dollars but then we started to see more ipos. and as a journalist i like to see them because they are independent and you know i remember when microsoft made that speech to yahoo many years ago thinking that would be sad if they went away because they are absorbed by another company and then they ended up going away for different reasons.
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>> the big companies were being immoral starting to lose some of your billion users somebody do you by the next hot company and you just keep going that way and buying up all of those user and sing perpetually young so you have these different apps etc. and i don't think that is healthy for the valley predict the companies need to die and most of the companies in this big score, they are gone and tht there was a good thing because we constantly need to refresh with new talent and new companies and new ideas and it said right before just going to have a handful of gigantic companies that absorbed everything that opposes a potential threat, this is not ngthe valley anymore. >> known because of social media, the these days a lot of young techies especially the founders complained to me because of social media,
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everybody knows everything about us and everybody is looking for the dark side. and even look at those workers, they is always two sides and again what we do for our job, back in the 80s, there's this perception of the people didn't know but in your book you talk about how thereoo was a dark sie that social media at the time but there was some - >> i went back and looked over the book again and i was struck that i thought that i was going to be reading this cheerleading book for the valley, is this greatness the future all these wonderful human beings changing the world and all of that and then i find that oh yeah, i didn't work with susan and the four-part series on toxic chemicals killing people in the valley. and we looked into espionage with p carrie and it the drugs and everything else and there
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were criminals running around the valley and even back in the 70s and when it chip shortage happened in thesh early 80s, we had a family looking in the valley trying to get them off the loading docks even the bad month so they can sell it on the gray market predict ... in the ascendant right now and why did criminal when you can make a billion dollars easily around here. >> so much of the technology
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decades ago was built on the government infrastructure or the chip industry and now it's hey we have 400 different maps. it's a different world so you are right it seems like that that ability but the goal seems to be let's do something in cash in and move on. >> it's a fundamental shift between hardware and software, okay? in between electrical engineers and code writers and that's the old world. you know and i think back about fairchild and those companies in the early days the intel and all that, that was very much a madman kind of era you know and
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antigrowth has a crew cut in the photographs and you realize that was the distinct world and that kind of world did have traditional criminal behavior and it had companies where you know they dreamed of becoming big and they had very specific structures and organizational charts and everything else. software changese everything and i think the market changes to because originally the valley was selling to industry. it was commercial. we were selling to other companies. now the turning point was the web but then social networks and now it's sales to consumers. it's a different world view. i mean old values family by your home get your gold watch, today young people in san francisco you sold them suspects in the hardware era.
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you sell in many ways manipulation and the social networking area and those companies are really thinking about how to enlist mr. or mrs. consumer into joining our world and becoming a member of i don't want to say cold but yeah occult and they used trucks from casinos and everything else. i mean they have convinced the to design their own product. a set of tools to make this work for ourselves. that's a very different reality. >> were there companies are entire industries that them that were jumping on the tech bandwagon where literally they wanted tech valuation or in other words was there a wee work attached in trying to jump on it? >> there is a little bit of that. they beganit to show techieesqu.
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they really weren't -- they were trying to affiliate themselves with cool value think so you get ads from the 60s and the 70s it's all people dress like me you know and they have got the pretty girl sitting at a computer that he had never seen before in his life and very sexist stuff and everything else. and then in the 70s you start do see a change. you started seeing appearing in advertisements. we have a so we are tech company and we are smart too and hard-drivingpa and we are goingo be really successful because we haveiv this guy and that was the turning point, point of deflection. >> you mentioned silicon valley coming up like this incredible branding. i wantth to bring up a quick
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comment do you believe certain publications and this comes up in silicon valley has lost its luster not only that other cities are emerging as other tech centers all around the world. what are your thoughts on this click silicon valley i've always thought the other cities are the most flattering thing we could see but competition is taking away from what we have. >> i declared the valued at about four times over the years and i was wrong every single time you know. as the -- as the value lost its luster i think traditional value has lost its luster but think about it if you listen carefully its tech history goes back 121
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years. cy elwell and paolo alto it wasn't the valley but it was on the cutting-edge of technology and i by the time they got to bl and dave in the garage it was already 30 years old and that was 30 years ago in the valley is still going strong because the battle peach regenerating itself and i don't know if that's because of traffic because of the cost of housing and i looked back and i go there wasn't that much traffic. you could buy a house in sunnyvale for $90,000. so what was i complaining about? the valley seems to be able to rise above all of these peripheral challenges as long as the entrepreneur corps and company building and creativityn stay strong. that's where worry about these
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giant companies having too much control because we lose that vitality of people wanting to reach for the brass ring. i think the valley will regenerate itself again. and they have tech companies and they have entrepreneurs that they don't have the culture. this is the only place i've ever been where technology is penetrated with culture. it's inextricable. you go to century theater and they are doing at four -- we need programmers and kids movies and you go to a local coffee place especially during booms like when people were developing apps for the iphone there were six or seven tables and mike cupertino pete's people surrounding a laptop.
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i don't go anywhere where i've seen at and finally its venture capital. where is all the venture capital, tech venture capital in the world located? they have offices everywhere and as long as the money is here silicon valley will keep regenerating itself. >> we certainly haven't gotten a high housing costs and my concern is as it gets higher and higher it's one thing to say you were already here but what about the traditional startups creating value and kiss the ring and get that money. if we steer them away with high housing costs because of the age of my children i know a lot of high-schoolers and people thinking about college and they are thinking how could i ever come back to the area as my
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early 20s as a graduate because there's no way we can afford housing and i worried that that set of entrepreneurs are going to go somewhere else. >> i wrote a piece in the "wall street journal" a while back suggesting what could happen. it's begun to happen but it's very slow and that the valley has to grow outwards. it kind of went over the hill toward santa cruz years ago but now i'm hearing developers are really starting to develop and once they get a highway of real highway through hollister and going east -- traces of beautiful little town. it's just over the hill. we can grow in all those directions physically and obviously we are growing and we are growing tall. i drive down el camino in sunnyvale and i don't know where i'm in.
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the six-story tall buildings the length of the city. it's going to go up and it has to so it's more urbanized. ido think the covid lockdown was interesting because we learned it can be protected doing a zoom call and i think that will then enable the valley to become more virtualized. physically it's going to stay around the bay area but i think you can virtualized well out of all of northern california. and if that's a subject we tackled on your podcast where the valley for decades has had the idea of hey we do software and therefore we can work from hnhome or a coffee shop and this was never accepted until the last 12 to 14 months in wow it's a productivity product and it seems to have worked really well. >> but you'll see backlash. people will say wait a minute i think we went tooom far.
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i think we are losing control is what they fear. >> california talked about that high-speed rail from north to south and im thought the best thing they could do right now would be to build high-speed rail rome san francisco or san jose to sacramento and open up the eight quarter to the valley for it to grow. i don't think -- we need to drive to the office in everyday anymore. the companies that want their employees to come back or saying hey two days a week? we willl negotiate, three days a week? just don't quit. i think that's the future. >> you are right. let's go back a bit in the forward inor your new look lucky road to forward me talk about what you did and did not get right d in 1985 and you call the
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valley dead many times. let's talk about some of the different things. >> that i screwed up? absolutely. the one i feel the most guilty about is -- the demos. basically everything we are looking at right now, the screen and the bit mapping and everything else. they've been pretty much forgotten. as a kid i had seen a clip of that stuff of angle bart doing the demo of all demos and the valley at a much forgotten about him and he came in one day and he sat down and talked to me and tried to just tell me what he was doing and all that and i thought he was just another littleus valley guy living in te
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past and i didn't give them that credit and whenno i wrote the bk i didn't give him enough credit. i bought the pr line being put out by apple and the other computer companies that they were the creators of this stuff and unfortunately you know -- got alzheimer's disease fairly young but i caught -- saw him a couple of times that i was never able to apologize for giving him enough credit. history is giving them credit. i don't think enough. >> the second thing i screwed up on, the internet. i was with a group of kids. they were bright kids in the took us on trips. we want to xerox parc and i sat down in front of the terminal
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and i got to play with our brunette in 1967, 68 somewhere in there and it did absolutely nothing for me. he had the typing all of these code numbers just to talk to some guy at caltech who had nothing to say to them and i thought this is stupid. this is never going to go anywhereth and then the web started taking off in the internet started taking off in the web and everything else and i tried that and i said this is kind of interesting. and it wasn't until really the web came along, the world wide web when everybody else found out and he thought this isn't bad. so you will not see the word internet in a book written or published in 1985 even though we were right on the cusp of
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changing everything so i regret that one. >> your former classmate steve jobs had a different experience when he was at xerox parc. >> well yeah. you know this at least as much as i did a kuchar still out there in the field on the line but you cover this story, daily story and over the weekend you did a round up and he discovered the real story and then six months later you find out the real story behind the real story behind the real story and 10 years later at a cocktail party someone tells you actually what happened.u you know steve jobs and xerox parc is a perfect example of that. the famous self-effacing story he goes to the xerox parc nec's xerox computers and it's got the
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angle bart inventions on it and he says we have got to do that. a great story and it showed steve c. modi and all that but the fact of the matter is he was working with the mac team and there were guys working at apple and they knew a all about this thing and they said we have got to do it and they said well steve has to sign off on it. i said he will never sign off on it because he didn't discover it. they said let's make him discover it. so they set it up so he'd walk why the computer and go over to that's the real story. there a number of things that i've learned in this book that are completely wrong. for example i didn't realize andy grove had looked at frederica one day and she
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said -- and he said i will destroy you.nd they will never hear your name in silicon valley again. okay so that's why all these years he heard that the microprocessor was ted hoff's invention for the architecture atat microsoft was the idea was absolutely teds invention but when he left i noticed all of a sudden the story changed again. frederico disappeared and yet he's the guy that built the thing. so the real story is these four guys and i nominated two of them for a nobel they deserved it. there's certain people inizy the town who got nobel prize is the didn't deserve it but that's the real story. so the pr department tents to
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give credit where it is and do all ended our people that deserve the attention. >> you are yourself for thesi internet and what it would turn out to be but many years later it didn't then. they are the second most valuable company. and now they are the second-most valuable company company in the world and there's another much later than when he wrote the book on the precipice of going away to where the point where michael dell said let's share the assets back to the shareholders in a company is by the way the most viable company in the world which somehow survived thanks largely to the internet. >> the original sin of that. that story doesn't fit with any of our preconceptions. that steve jobs convinced
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bushnell to let him resign and nobody at the atari believe steve could do it. they didn't like him anyway. he was obnoxious so steve convinces best friend pete wozniak, these guys are both my neighbors in her member this happening, to design a game and wozniak was looking at hp and he was getting that first game ready and he gave it to steve and steve walked into bushnell's office and he said look what i created in bushnell said fabulous and they paid him and steve didn't get half of it to wozniak said he gave about a third of it and because of that wozniak went to the west con computer show wanted to buy a processor and he couldn't afford the 886 that he wanted from intel because they were about
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ford bucks andy at 50 bucks so he took one out of the goldfish bowl or they were selling them for 10 bucks apiece and the built the apple one around that and as a result apple microprocessors for the first 25 years, that was the original sin and wozniak didn't find out about it until was explained to him by mcintosh and when he found out what really happened he was very upset human being you know and i love wozniak said he didn't deserve to be ripped off but that's the original sin of apple and the most valuable company in the history of the world. >> going back who knew that they would cast that big of a shadow? >> after ibm's vc came out apple started losing market share. it was in the low 90s for that
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and it fell for the next 20 years down to 8% before steve came back with the i is what company right now has the largest shadow and as their company that you think maybe 24 -- 20 years from now will. >> one of the great things about the valleys you can't reject the next unicorn. i think you know gordon moore had lot of batteries. it doesn't get noticed because it isn't as simple as the semiconductors but he said battery powered will be the limiting factor on semi conductors at a certain point. herere are some battery companis out there that are doing interesting things and we had one that just in the valley
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novick's. silicon batteries so no silicon is come back to silicon valley but is there v product going to work? i don't know but it's possible that batteries can now get on the freight train in not the semi conductors. i think batteries are going to be crucial and whoever has the great breakthrough, you know i had lunch a while back with frederico and i said what's the greatest invention in valley history? is it the tryout -- triode or the transistor? is it the integrated circuit? visit you and your team with the microprocessor and he said no, i think the one true moment of
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genius in that whole history to play in our process. he said everything else that wee all do you could see it coming. you are extrapolating from where we are now to what we could do in the future but he says the idea of taking the transistor and laying it flat and the printing process and being able to scale it down 10 nanometers with the planar process that was not an active engineering. he said that was an act of artistic creation and he said everything else pales next to that moment when they came up with that so i thought that was interesting. that's what we are waiting for. the valley waits for the moment where you get a plain our process and everything changes and moore's law presents the
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opportunity to do that every two or three years. bushnell was building circuits and he played computer games at his university and he realized you couldn't build an electronic pinball machine because it was too at spence of. when it got down to 10 bucks he knew he could start atari. the improvement in performance and reduction in price can start a whole new landscape of opportunity in the coming years and that's what makes these going.eneurs keephe that opportunity is right there anden i think that invention is right around the corner.r. we can't predict and we can't depend upon it but it always shows up and that's the greatness of the valley and i'm waiting to hear the next one. i think it'll be battery powered i think it will be artificial intelligence.
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i don't think robotics. we have to look at autonomous vehicles that something big is waiting in the wings and i can just feel it. you can feel it rising underground but you can't see it yet. it's a particular protection. >> let me ask what might be waiting in the wings on the darker side. use the phrase rising from the ground. many years ago we figured out what was rising from the ground byld the fairchild plant and it was killing people. we didn't know it then and nobody did but it caught people by surprise. >> let me give you quick answer about that. ii was sitting, i was on the story were a big factory was being built 800,000 square feet and we were sitting outside me and a bunch of press reporters and i heard about people getting
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hurt but no one had written about it and i said do you guys know about toxic chemicals around here and he said oh yeah matt farrell over the place. i said have you ever written about it? >> they said we are tradecraft. we write about technology. i told that to susan who is a of a lot better reporter than i was and she could shoot in that was the beginning of the whole toxic thing in the valley. everybody had quietly known aboutno it but the valley is so pretty with the green grass burns and the nice concrete hoping is. this wasn't smokestack or this was in. pittsburgh. we were here with a clean and safe industry. only then did we discover there were some of the most dangerous chemicals ever known. so you are right i think we
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sense that something is wrong. >> we sense that something is wrong now and whether it's mining bitcoin or whatever it is. there is still mining going on but we are at this place where we are software, we are actually producing anything and therefore we are not hurting the environment. you can see what's coming because of the january 6. you can see what's coming in 2016we whether it political and other countries relying on social media to spread their word and we are seeing what's already here within tyre facebook sections devoted to why you should not get vaccinated and we are seeing people die because of it. how long is technology going to be allowed before government figures out what technologyt
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doesn't b someone can say hey there's a disincentive for misinformation much like a disincentive for chemicals. >> to think that toxins are not to our bodies but to our brains right now. we see several things occur in one of them is the notion that we can assign people to determine what is the truth and control the access to that truth to billions of people and i always hearken back to the latin phrase about who will guard the guardians? none of this is sure that we are right and there's a first amendment specifically designed to create a base between alternative points of view and if we start censoring it heterodox he point of view we may be find a solution to whatever problems we face and we
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are allowing large companies to decide what we should know. you are a little different from me but i'm the first absolutist and all points of view have to be recognized. it seems tech has begun to narrow the area in which we are allowed to operate in our thinking, in our speech and everything else and i'm not sure they are the people that should be doing it. i'm certain the federal government should be doing it andd to date they haven't done anything about it is you are covering these congressional testimonies. politicians don't even understand what zuckerberg's talking about. we are starting to see a glimmer
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and i don't know the exact solution is. it's probably somewhere in the law that we have been giving tax special breaks and sparing them responsibility with that information and that may carry -- something can be done there. we talked the other day about how the ftc sent a warning should -- out there when after broadcom for antitrust. they were coming for the big toys. we know the continue of video games will change the wiring of our kids brains and ultimately we have to understand the digital world is not the same as the analog world to the analog world was built for us. we have to learn to cope with it. the digital world was specifically designed for us to
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entertain us, manipulate us to take their money to empower us all the good things and the bad things. we are still working it out in the next few years strike me. >> are we ever going to get a leader for of a better term manipulate us by social media and is that where we are right now where some speech. >> yeah. i'm not sure we will. until a new technology comes along. i just wrote an essay talking about how silicon valley has changed with the code writers etc. one thing i talked about was freeware which we all love. you are free to download it. it's a truly pernicious valley
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invention because you give away everything for you but you don't really notice you are giving up every bit of your personal reinformation so you are slowlyf surrounding your liberty for that new gadget or something. we have appealed that back and add more data into the process. we have to get to the place where we own our data and of the company wants our data they have to buy it from c us. take all my personal information but it has to be our decision. right now it's not our decision. that's where a lot of the recent of the valley is coming from right now. >> maybe there is a job or career opening is after all their agents to handle contracts
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for whatever jobs we have. >> my 25 cents an hour for the original sin. >> the one i said but it really did work was nothing and thatbe was the number attached to how much money could doubleday make publishing my book? they have done such a beautiful objob of packaging in bundling t and hopefully they will see something from us. i could have put on a paper hat and worked at the window but donaldson made her money writing that first book. to make sure to get to some questions out there and by the way feel free to put it in the q&a section or the comment
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section. this is something we touched on earlier but what about intellectual property and human rights on the two other side's? b that's a really complicated question because is china a friend or an enemy and if you are making apple computers and where there are imprisoning confrontation -- how do you do that to make a profit? there was i think 1980 or 1979 the computer decisions magazine disappeared. i've always remembered it as the title of it was would you sell a computer to and he went through the list of all the companies and i was working for p. at the
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time in pr and all the companies were selling minicomputers to the likes of the argentinian government and other dangerous countries and enemies around the world who were doing terrible things like keeping track of citizens that they were resting. nobody talked about it and the question is are we in bed with china at a time that it's not morally right to be there any more? that intellectual property where china was doing everything but the world patent organization and all that kind of thing i know they are still doing it and i know the companies where they actually put in tripwires into the products that they were going to sell to china to reverse engineer the code.
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they would just scramble it did when you're dealing with a company that allows that kind of if you got to thinkin twice. >> ibm did so -- so the question is at what point is it just morally wrong to deal with china quickly are so deep in right now. are you institutes in our universities and we have the top basketball player in the world. we have a famous debbie deb e. roessler w apologizing for his scene in a hollywood movie. onot and on and on. when did we stop and when do we say that market is not worth it? in taiwan the source of most of
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the chips in the world and they say if you -- we have nuclear weapons. companies are going to make some very serious decisions very soon. >> catherine reed has a a wquestion. the new semi conductor facilities and this is something you talked about mutai california error environmental challenges. what about concerns about the environment? >> yeah when they announced they were going to build down there i thought why there? and then moto and intel have been there for decades. so you have a large population of people that are pretty good at putting on the suit to do that that's tough so you have to
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look for trained people and you have to go there. you are owing to go to dubuque or a la houma or something like that and start over. i think it's going to put pressure on if the structureut f arizona and new mexico but there you go. >> yet are concerned are the likes of elon musk while he's welding cars that are better for the environment he's talking about currency were a lot of mining gets done. >> you know your in 2021 where people are concerned about the environmentalt damage created by a cryptocurrency. you know? i never thought i'd see that day. >> one thing you touchedng on earlier antitrust and i
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apologize if i'm pronouncing it wrong but the relationship between silicon valley and antitrust. where do you see the antitrust hearings going and will it ever make a difference with the likes of facebook and amazon and apple and microsoft? isn't ever going to affect any of these companies? >> i think at some point it does. we watch this kabuki>> dance now for years and washington d.c. says we have to do something about big tech and their army of lawyers to and everything else back to d.c. with lobbyist the right big checks and everything is quiet again. i think there's a rising anger about what's going on and we are starting to see noises but at some point no matter how much money a congressman gets he's
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got to vote a certain way for his constituents. i see that day coming. it's interesting because breaking up companies at a certain point is not a bad ultimately it's usually more successful than the original company in a classic example of that is ibm. ibm was truly a monopoly crushing univac with their mainframes in the 50s and 60s. then they are hit by antitrust in their paralyzed. in that time they didn't get into the personal computer world and they really missed the personal computer. that enabled 150 companies to get e started and apple and commodore and a few others. ibm gets in the game designing
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the ibm pc and they eventually take over a sizable share of the market that the company that got creative are now giant to say we have real competition. i think the same thing will happen. right now where'd you go? >> to twitter and you go to facebook. you don't have any choice and if you break them up you are going to have multiple companies with a lot of the same people now running those companies and a lot more competition and a lot more creativity and a lot more dynamic because entrepreneurs start showing up. right now those markets are closed. >> it wasn't that long ago, that's how we got agile and now
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it seems like everyone wants to show how -- they are. isn't that historically an unhealthy trend? a variant healthy trend. look it companies every 10 years.he they pretty much completely changedh every decade. the rest of them changed every decade. lately that has been the case. we have companies that are 20 or 30 years old that are still dominate everything. maybe it's healthy for a balance of trade it's not healthy for the economy or for silicon valley. >> we have a couple more questions. what advice do you have for people who want to take a more active role to shape a better future in their personal lives for humanity and that's interesting because they talk a lot about how they are helping
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humanity and that sounds kind of sketchy but they see themselves themselves -- >> that's a tough one. there are always brilliant people out there. let's put it this way. you have word geniuses and valley history. there is wozniak and that's about it and the legendary tracking crazy brilliant bob wilder but there aren't many brilliant people out here. this is the iq of silicon valley's insanely high. there are always people to do want to try something new and create a new company. they are out there and they are looking for help and they are looking for people who will step in and join them and give all
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their energy into making a new technology and making the new company happened and you get to know people out there but one of the great rules of silicon valley are if you can answer somebody's question you refer to them as somebody they can. this challenges you'll be connected to everybody in this town and three, four or five steps. and formed startup teams and develop products of your own. and influenced the creation of those companies. it's a sad thing the most enlightened company and valley history which was at its peak in 1958. that was hewlett-packard. there's never been a more enlightened better run company in the valley. the it's not even hp anymore and where are the people taking risks on organizations and
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treatment of employees. the internet is filled platform for communicating withim other peoplele. start up a log and make your case for what you believe and get involved in crowdsourcing things. if you see a book project a new company or new product that you think will help mankind get involved with that. they are a million opportunities to do good in this town. we tend to just focus on doing well but you know i've been a boy scout leader for 20 plus years. that's important to me. i say scouts now because we have girls and that's important to me. it's a way of helping out the community non-profits in silicon valley, everybody works 80 hours a week so they are free to devote a lot of time to charity.
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do so, help out and make this a better place. >> excellent. we have our final question and it's one quick one because it's very specific that will take you back. i b think i feel your position t htc are? what do you do there? >> i handled apd working with calculators and effect it's my favorite artifact. i think it's a document of silicon valley but several hp calculators in the storage room that i introduced so i had the calculator group the desktop computer group and part of the
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many computer group. i was there for the second and third introduction of the h.b. 3000. and if it did. i introduced the h.b. one digital watch. it weighed about one pound and you had to have your shirt out but it was the first true computer watch. one arm got longer over time. >> i'm going to rap with this. this has t been a great trip ino the future so we'll end with the future question about the museum. there's a one-word initiative that focuses on one word of advice to a young person starting their career so as you reflect your life in your experience in silicon valley they want to know your one word
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of advice as well as the story behind why you chose that one word. >> i've watched a lot of people at the museum holed up their word and you are easy things like positive and i feel good looking at them but i thought i'm going to tell the truth. relentless. this valley was built by and will continue to thrive as a result of people who are relentless in their pursuit of great technology and great companies and success. you can't change the world if you are relentless.nn you can never give up. when i had a tv show on pbs i interviewed a bunch of executives and i said what was your single biggest screwup and it was interesting the most successful people were the ones that were the most willing to admit when they had failed and they use that as a code ever since.
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it was like a shiny object they kept in their pocket and polished all the time to remind them never give up, keep going, keep trying. it will work eventually and you will win in this town if you work hard enough long enough and you stay relentless. never give up. >> i like that advice based the same throughout the decades. >> absolutely. >> michael as is always it's great to talk to and i lookouou forward to hearing your podcast again this friday. and thank you to the computer history museum. i know i speak for you we are both big fans of the museum so thank you and i will send it back over. >> thank you scott and thank you mike for your book. we said that in the conversation
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rock stars in the talked about emerging in the 1980s which made me think about here we are once-in-a-lifetime and it made me think about talking heads because we are on the camera and using technology that was demonstrated so long ago and we are presenting context and history and the ability to think deeply about the stories of the past and how they can be a guide for thinking about the future. it's a wonderful opportunity to reflect and encouragee those who haven't to take a look at the book. there are some incredible stories about incredible people and applications. with that i encourage those in the museum to take your hats off
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and think you're so coming out of the pandemic. we have done well and i encourage you to take a look at our webpp site to see what you n do to help us. if you likek programs like this we like to keep them alive. let me once again thank scott and mike for their program today. so thanks again.
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>> i'm very excited to introduce tonight's speaker. including documentaries podcast short form video series games for blogs and more. her articles on memory have been featured in the boston globe magazine atlantic in scientific america. this book in particular supported by a grant from that offered these loan foundation and the public understanding of science osi.


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