>> mexico supports c-span2 as a public service. next on book tv, georgetown university law professor sheryll cashin argues us housing policies have created a residential caste system resulting in poverty free havens and poverty dense hoods and only to increase profits. find more schedule information at booktv.org or consult your program guide. now here's author and professor sheryll cashin.

>> the evening virtual audience and welcome. thank you for joining us. my name ntis hillary car and i'm goingto introduce this talk with sheryll cashin for her new book "white space, black hood: opportunity hoarding and segregation in the age of inequality" . joining the conversation is tomikobrown-nagin . thank you for joining us tonight. for virtual events like tonight harvard bookstore continues to bring authors and their works to argue community. every week will be we will be hosting events and our schedule here is on our ts website at harvard.com /events where you can browse books from home. this evening's discussionwill include time for your questions . if you have a question click on the q and a button at the bottom of the screen and we will get through as many as oo time allows . you may need to enable the captions by clicking on the closed caption button on your

screen . in the chat i will be posting a link as well as a link to donatein support of this series . your purchases make events like tonight possible and help conserve the future of a landmark independent bookstore . thank you for tuning in and support of our author. we really appreciate your support now and always. as you may haveexperienced in virtual gatherings , if they do we will do our best to resolve them and we thank you in advance for your understanding. now i'm so pleased to introduce tonight's speakers. sheryll cashin is a professor of civil rights at georgetown university and a contributingeditor for politico magazine . she's previously been a lot clark for justice thurgood marshall as well as an advisor on community development in neighborhoods like those of my house and has appeared in the new york

times, washington post among many others and is the author of the new york times book review editor's choice integration, and her emmy award nominated loving and the threat to white supremacy. tonight sheryll cashin will be joined by tomiko brown-nagin, the dean of radcliffe university studies, professor of constitutional law at harvard law and faculty of arts and sciences. ytomiko brown-nagin is the author of the book courage to present: the long history of the civil rights movement discussing professor sheryll cashin's latest book "white space, black hood: opportunity hoarding and segregation in the age of inequality" which kirkus reviews called an important argument that white supremacy and racial division poison our cities and has been called brilliant and nuanced in presenting the centrality of geography in social inequality.

where so happy to have them both here tonight so without further ado the digital podium is yours, professor tomiko brown-nagin and sheryll cashin. >> thank you to the harvard bookstore forhosting this talk . it is my pleasure to be in n conversation with sheryll cashin who has written this fifth book and just i like to start off byasking you why you decided to write this book . >> part of it as you know is your fault . it was about four years ago, five years ago that i got a call from you asking me if i would like to give the lecture at my alma mater and i was flattered and flabbergasted and said what will i say this institution where all my former professors are still on the faculty? it forced me to think ambitiously what would be

worthy of the occasion and i've spent my entire academic career thinking about segregation and was very inspired by michelle brandis book the new jim crow in the way that she connected contemporary mass incarceration to a prior anti-black institution jim crow. but i wanted to see the connection from slavery to jim crow to the iconic segregation of black ghettos, black hoods. and because it just seems like each time we put to bed one black supporting institution we create another the premises still manifest. it's just the structures change and ideology around it changes . that is one reason. i had to find something

ambitious to say to my alma mater but the other thing is i have been passionately entire life about ... i guess it's because i acome from a civil rights family in alabama . about low income black people and how they are othered in a society. how they are treated not just by whites but even by middle and upper-class blacks. it's sometimes ... well, you get the point. i feel very passionate. i called the neighborhood's descendents in recognition of the connection to slaves. there they are the true descendents of slavery and as i said in the introduction, i see them with love and i wrote this book to humanize them and to advocate for them . >> i have to say your lecture was impressive and this book is really impressive.

it is the total package. you combine historical and legal analysis o. you discuss all of the relevant scholarships and you and i work in some of the same areas, so i know that scholarship and it's really all in there. and going beyond that you combine storytelling and policy solutions and you do it in almost 200 pages. so it's just a really impressive book and i truly congratulate you on the achievement. >> thank you so much, that means ikthe world to me. for those who haven't had a chance to read the bookyet, why don't you go through and give us a brief overview of the argument that you make ? >> what i'm arguing is that racial inequality that you see in american society is

best explained by understanding that we have a system of residential caste that produces it. we intensely constructed a affluent white space and the iconic black hood and the one wouldn't existwithout the other . high opportunity poverty free bastions couldn't exist if we didn't concentrate poverty elsewhere and these two extremes of residential caste are the most persistent kinds of neighborhoods that we have . in fact, the boundaries of affluent white space and concentrated black poverty are hardening. those neighborhoods are persisting and not going away . there's a lot in between but what i argue is everyone in american society who cannot

buy their way into affluent white spaces which also are emerging to be heavily asian as well get a very different dealwhen it comes to opportunity . people trapped in the hood get the worst deal and i'm saying that residential caste is that she explanation for structural systemic racism and i explain that residential caste in america is animated by three primary anti-black processes. boundary making dawhich is a polite word for segregation. opportunity porting, over investing in affluent white space, diss investing elsewhere and high driven surveillance.

predatory policing and also private policing of black bodies . that's the argument of the book and i also call for abolition and repair of american residential caste. >> i want to end up on that discussion of abolition but i wonder if you'd talk about some of your word choices. you use the term cast throughout the book as opposed to say racial coordination or marginalization or just plain racism. i wonder what do you is the explanatory power of cast as a concept? >> i say residential caste a very popular book by the same title and i'm not talking about just socialcast . but the word is powerful. it even oaks more than just racism. people who are in high poverty neighborhoods are

essentially trapped there. very few people are able to get out . that's a caste system. it's also cast also evokes the degree of other ring that affects folks in the hood. the stereotypes and nasty stereotypes of super predators, thugs, welfare queens, ghetto. some of the worst stereotypes of blackness are incubated in the hood and are based on a lot of ideas about what goes on there. often generated by people who have no intimate knowledge of lax people. so i think caste is more powerful than just saying racism. and for me, that evokes

entrenched structures. and residential caste is nothing if not structural. the social distinction that comes naturally to human beings become much more efficient when you overlay it withgeography . those people over there. art worthy of coming to live in myspace. people come up with reasons to justify the way things are . i have a chapter as you know about mythology. i call it ghetto mythology. but the mythology animating residential caste is that high opportunity living is burned and people trapped in low poverty eoareas, that's the deserved result sof individual bad behavior .

that erases and masks a century of nefarious public policies that systemically create actually render some neighborhoods the void of any real dopportunity. >> i think it's an appropriate word and as you say it's powerful. it gets to the permanence of the situation. being totally devoid of opportunity, being trapped is a very powerful word choice. you also as you mentioned at the top use the word descendents. and you tell stories about descendents on every chapter. can yousay a bit about why that's your word choice for this book ?

>> for me descendents is a term of affection, of love, of honoring an african-american legacy. words used to describe black americans particularly poor black americans are often have negative connotation. the n-word, ghetto or whateverand it also evokes the truth . african-americans and after the civil war were overwhelmingly in the south, right? there descendents became great migrants. the early great migrants, some of them may have been enslaved but there descendents lots of them were great migrants so they go north and south to escape jim crow and what the primary response to black people in large numbers wherever they landed was to contain them

and hyper segregated neighborhoods. and to disinvest in those neighborhoods. making them much worse in other places. and i guarantee you the folks who live in the hood i guarantee you that overwhelmingly, those folks are descendents of slaves. there is a continuum, a direct continuum which i described. >> that's important to talk about. not a lot of people do make those connections and i think it's again, a very appropriate term. >> i want to finish the second half.d and thank you for noticing that, every chapter opens this and features a character or two and i tried to get

this picture, a lot of this i want to synchronize my people , black people with real human beings. and many of the people i feature are tupeople who overcame something that inspired me. so i have photographs of them . i told their stories and i do it chronologically. so i make the connection because i have a chapter. i don't 1890 straight through and i do it fast because you get to the contemporary parkway quickly but i wrote this for lack people. particularly black americans and i have her here but very influenced by toni morrison in this book of essays she writes about how syou know,

first of all her whole career she centered the black american experience. and she wrote that for herself, for others. she wasn't trying to appeal to any other audience. i wanted to write a book that was truly like your the truth about what our people have been through. and she says in the book i just pulled out in one essay jumped out at me that you know, racial oppression may never go away. it may never goaway but we can write about it . we can tell the truth. that's what i set out to do, to make it clear to myself and my people all these forces that are set against us. and they never seem to stop. and the more i learned the angrier i was but i wanted to just tell the truth aboutthat . and you know, i wanted it to

be a bit of the bible frankly where you if you wantto understand why it is , here. >> can you tell us one of those stories? let's take a chapter okay. so many come to me but i'm going to pick lakei barnett who is a descendent in the technical sense in that she lives in a high poverty areas inwashington dc and i interviewed her double times . she was in a very poor area in maryland. and i got to know her because she was a client of a georgetown law housing law

clinic and to meet this woman, she's a dynamo. she's an impressive person to me. she has a lot of knowledge and a lot of gumption and she actually had been middle-class and due to unfortunate circumstances found herselfand her family homeless . and i follow her through the struggle to get some stable housing. and she was actually more functional than a lot of people around her in the homeless shelter and took advantage of all the services the georgetown law students provided her and i tried to show how much assistance she needed and a lawsuit because she was didiscriminated agains . she got a housing doctor and it's illegal in washington dc

to discriminate based on source of income. she had one of those rare hard to get hud opportunity vouchers. and but for georgetown law students helping her through, she got a settlement and putting pressure on the housing authority in dc which finally because the housing doctor you only get three months or something to get your placement. they finally got some emergency assistance so they put her in a van and drove her to a certain spot but she started out someone had told her in an opportunity, they say they take the voucher and may back out. i show the struggle and trying to get her kids to school . she's 10 minutes away from where there's a lot of gun violence but this is a person whose written books. who's produced ... she's got

this movement of women who endured all kinds of things where they sort of have a monologue where they did a play .sh she's just a striver. so that's a modern equivalent. i could go on. that's one example. >> the storytelling is powerful and it's clear to me and to the audience that you have a lot of passion as well as expertise and that comes through so much in this work. >> did you have a favorite character? i'm just curious. >> i was attracted to the concept, that's something i tried to do as well is tell a story. although i want to go back to

something in particular that you just said. you mentioned that this book, you wanted to be a bible. and you said that you wrote it for the african-american community. and one of the things you talk about implicitly but also directly in the book is the separation between the descendents and the black middle class and certainly affluent blackamerica . let's talk aboutthat . so let's talk about the contrast between the progress of the black middle class and those who are trapped in these ghettos. what is what dilemma does the black middle class face including affluent people, including black officials who

control majority back black cities. tell us about the dilemmas and how you recommend trying to resolve some of those limits. >> first i want to make it clear to the audience that i centered the african-american experience but i will would welcome anybody reading it. i definitely had african americans and theirexperience in mind when writing it . well, one of the points i make is pre-civil rights, we had a cast system just based on race and in the south particularly no matter what your social economic status you were in that caste system to. post civil rights the good thing is people who prosper were able to exit the system.

back in the day when it was created there was a different strata ivof black people who live together but the fair housing act opened up opportunity and most people who could access high poverty neighborhoods do. in fact the economic segregation is growing fastest among african americans and latinx people. they're amoving to higher ground and james korman kind of speaks to this. democrats outnumber republicans like 12 to 1 in this city and when dc, the city i live in was overwhelmingly run by lack people h, they pursued mass incarceration to. and cei have heard others about

nonwhite people participating in. in a society that concentrates advantage and concentrates disadvantage to all people particularly as you know this people who are parents feel pressured to get as close to the high loopportunity as they can. i live this in washington dc so the dilemma is distancing yourself from concentrated poverty is and by the way concentrated poverty is growing faster in the suburbs and its growing fast in white areas to but distancing yourself from concentrated poverty and concentrated disadvantage becomes necessary to thrive.

so part of the reason, descendents are worse off than they were before the civil rights revolution because they lost the proximity to our most successful lack people and they lost ultheir social influence. they lost their tax dollars and there's a lot ofsocial distance now . it is a dilemma and i live that myself. i put my kids in public charter schools for the first seven years and each year of their education from first grade through seventh grade each year the poverty rate grew higher. last year there were in school 53 percent were on it free or reduced lunch and i walked the walk as long as it works for my kids but it began not to workso much .

that's the dilemma. >> it is and of course it's a dilemma that i'm familiar with myself f and i think this book really as you said will help a whole lot of people understand the plight of people who are descendents and not fall prey to the mythology that affects everyone in this country. so let me ask you about white allies and people of color allies, how they are implicated in the problem you identify . one story what stories are they telling themselves about concentrated poverty and why should they care about the unique circumstances, unique americans? >> okay, well everybody

should hear about residential cast because it's only working for a very small fraction for those who live in the metropolitan areas. only seven percent of the population can buy their way into the highest opportunity places . , d those places exclude they have exclusionary zoning. they often won't even have to apartments let alone duplexes or quad. >> .so the exclude non-rich people and a lot of people don't realize is it's subsidized by everybody who's excluded. they get golden infrastructure. there's gas taxes, they often get more than their fair and e of revenue rates income taxes in terms of what the state decides to invest in for development.

and so this whole system is destroying opportunity for almost everyone whether you live in a city or a non-rich suburb, there are a lot of suburbs out there now for a ruralarea , americans no longer the land of opportunity for you. it's the end of opportunity. and we have a politics that's cut taxes, cut taxes and biden is trying to change that we have a politics that has historically maligned the people trapped in the worst hoods. but that's masking the system of structures and opportunity and also politics. our severe segregation facilitates this extreme partisan gerrymandering so

you should care. even to the affluent person who lives on high ground, you should care. i live in a neighborhood that i have to admit is pretty affluent. i mean, it's not the most affluent in washington dc but it's a neighborhood of progressive and kind people who have a lot of black lives matter signs and we believe in science and we're lucky we live in a neighborhood like that. >> ..

so many people i think in this country are hungry for something better than toxic division, fear, a society based on fear, separation. everybody has to scratch so much. if we followed my suggestions for abolition and repair we would stabilize a lot, that would be a lot nicer neighborhoods that are less scary to people andsc you would have more opportunity to return to public institutions, right? a lot of high income people, i mean, the hyper affluent are always going to be in the own universes but two. professionals feel the need to buy the most expensive house they can afford either to get in a good school or spend a lot of dollars for private school. to basically get to opportunity that stable and good.

great, right? society that wasn't based on residential caste, that had an attitude of care rather than predation, particularly for descendents, i think opportunity would be more widely distributed for everyone. >> that's a great answer and insight and i hope its persuasive to the readers. i'm going to turn to audience questions into just a moment soi would ask our audience to please post your questions so that i can ask sheryll about what's on your mind. but first i want to turn to sheryll, the question of what to do about all this. there's a chapter this title abolitioner and repair. i wonder if you could share

what's in that chapter? what your vision of what needs to be done to dismantle and replace residential caste? >> i want to start off by saying my starting point was reading w.e.b. du bois, angela davis. i'm not the first person to talk about abolition and creating an abolition democracy. so my vision really came from them, the language they use. when you use the word abolition you talking about transformation. i'm not talking about modest reform. the beauty of understanding residential caste is once you understand it and its processes, the way forward becomes obvious. you just reverse those processes. the first thing i say is we need to change the relationship with states, with descendents from

punitive to caring, change the lens in which we see them. there i say with love. but what you see descendents as three-dimensional human beings who are capable of agency and potential assets, it frees you up to focus on and identify evidence-based policies that actually might be cheaper than what we are doing, which is basically mass incarceration and over policing, and more effective. first you have to change the lands but it also say we need to reverse the processes here so inclusion rather than exclusion. you know, mandatory inclusionary zoning, mandatory affordable housing for all neighborhoods. green lighting rather than red lighting.

that is an historically defined black neighborhoods, , the veryh neighborhoods that were redlined in the '30s and cut off from traditional mortgages and traditional investment, to this day are disinvested in and distressed. they should be first in line for new infrastructure dollars. they should be first in line for community investment, community development dollars. their studies in chicago, i have this stat. chicago spends three times more money and white neighborhoods than blackor neighborhoods in is development dollars. that's not right. so having a neighborhood analysis and racial equity analysis, paying attention to where the money goes, and prioritize disrupting the unfair allocation.

and then third, and this is what's been in the news so much, i don't profess to of all the answers but wem must transform policing from predatory test humane. and offer examples of innovative programs that reduce gun violence dramatically just by focusing on theseth young peopl, the relatively small number of young people, they are young to me, young men typically, who might actually be likely to pull the trigger or who actually are engaged in gun violence and haven't yet been prosecuted, wrapping services around them andng giving them loving mentor and giving them a life plan as richmond, california, did dramatically reduce gun violence. a lot cheaper than incarceratio incarceration. some hopeful examples in the book of

places that are doing transformative things. there are things we can do. >> we have a number of questions, good questions and let me ask one. what do you see as the first step for cities, states, entities with power can take to begin dissolving the caste system in the us? >> i think the first system is this sounds very self-serving but i do think it would help to read the book. you have to understand what is going on and how systemic it is. i really identify all the systems that are systemic in black neighborhoods. but i really do believe that the first step is intentionally changing your lens first. thinking of people as people,

as human beings and potential assets rather than deficits. so that's the first but also a neighborhood analysis at the local level. you should put into your budgeting process in seattle, the twin cities and baltimore are doing this now where do you regularly, annually assess and look at where dollars are being spent and intentionally tried to achieve racial equity. this is what joe biden, i was so inspired within hours of being inaugurated, joe biden signed an executive order calling for a racial equity exercise and put susan right in charge, a formidable woman .

and basically said we are going to start paying attention to how we are spending in real numbers so much money. just paying attention to this and then intentionally trying to disrupt the process of if we do nothing what tends to happen is affluence people are the squeaky wheel and they get more than their fair share in their region. being over about that. and then you know, there's so many dimensions. but dubois and angela davis talked about abolition is as much about building up as it is about tearing down and you need to repairdemocracy as you go . we should grow the multiracial coalition that

claims black lives matter and sustain the coalition so you have people who will show up at zoning meetings and say i stand for affordable housing everywhere or who will fight for integrated schools. it's a multi prong thing. there's no silver bullet. >> your discussion reminds me of the prospect of beloved community . that system that was discussed and i think it's quite resonant with what you're saying about starting from low. so sheryll, there are questions about examples. sort of locations, cities that have made real progress. you mentioned richmond california, could you give us other examples of cities that have taken the kind of steps

that you think are important? >> you might be surprised. louisville kentucky which i feature quite a bit in a chapter on schools was a very segregated neighborhood and segregated in its schools. about 90 percent of students who went to school were black in the city and 90 percent were white and the outlying area. over a twenty-yearperiod , through a series of actions the louisville metro area became much more integrated and built a constituency for people who volunteered. you had majoritarian politics in which the majority of people wanted integration . after they got out in their

corridor with school segregation they continued their school integration. theyconsolidated the government ,city and county . and residential segregation went down a lot in the area. it went from being a hyper segregated metro area to just being moderately segregated. that is a success. and now they've done a lot of education around what happened in the 30s and why black neighbors in the west and. why they need more resources. despite lately the city is associated with jets, they still have work to go. they have miles to go but there went from being hyper segregated to less segregated and they have pretty good jobs with creating and

maintaining integrated schools. much better than a lot of other places. a lot of otherplaces in the south , white areas are trying to secede from the school districts. >> i want to go back to the conversation we were having about affluent blacks being a part of an elite base. there's a question about that and it's asking about how people, how individuals can rectify the disconnect of identifying to as a number of elite spaces while trying to strive for abolition of the institutions and structural barriers that allowed some people to thrive both black and white. so there's a dissonance. in what we're trying to do's is. and i mean, arguably i'm

guilty of it although i live in two stably integrated neighborhoods in the district. the law, i mean a 50 year tradition of black professionals living with whites and jews. and i'm in one. i was in one and now i'm impressed. so i chose integration. this neighborhood i'm in is not economically integrated. it's not far but here's my point. there's more appetite for integrated spaces stably integrated spaces than there are tools and neighborhoods to fill the appetite. because of our policies.

i'd say yes, it's dissonant but while you're living your life you want to amend your time and treasure to organizations trying tomake life better . you can vote for and support policies that will make life better even if you yourself are not in close proximity to people who are really selfish . >> there's a question that's being asked about your vetting process. asked about what it was like working with your editor and the most interesting part of the question is what did you leave out of the final publication if you can talk about that? >> writing is both a joy for me. it's also, i don't struggle ... i mean, i've never had writers block.

i don't understand that. i enjoy the craft of writing. i go to bed every night reading good writing. i love literature. for me this is my fifth book and my process is when i have an idea i get a book deal with the deadline for submitting the book. i can't write unless i have a deadline. if i've got a deadline i'm very focused and for me, my friend is word count. i write when i got the research done and i'm ready to write. i map it out and i set the goal. when i was young, i'm not young anymore. not giving away my age but when i was younger i would try to bang out 1000 words a day. i can't do that anymore but as i was writing this i'd say 500 words a day. some days if i just wasn't

feeling it i would say something easy. 300 words a day when you start getting up and doing it , this film about, a documentary about heroine toni morrison. she said she would get up at 5 am. i can't get up that early. i would get up at 6 am and 7 am and tried to get my 500 wordsdone . it's good to say you're going to do a certain number of words and just get to that and in 10days you've got 5000 words . the math just helps. in a month you've got 15,000 words. most books these days are 80 to 100. a lot of them don't wantyou to get too long . what was left out in this book? in this book, nothing. i spent a lot of time

thinkingabout it . i really did. this book had nothing left out. there was stuff cut in others but does that answer your question? >> as i said at the top it's very well structured. it's a model in so many ways and i'm not surprised to hear you say you didn't leave anythingout . you really did it in a very powerful way. so another question someone wants to know how the bronx is doing in terms of these issues. >> i can't the bronx. i haven't been there. i don't have any specific stopper. i know that the bronx is not what the bronx was. way back in the day. there's been an extraordinary amount of redevelopment since reagan.

this was the south bronx reagan went to but i wish i could it but i don't have any firsthand knowledge . i will say in coda to the previous question, i have a degree in election engineering and i definitely, you said you were talking about how powerful it is in terms you laid out. it's the engineer in me that built the argument. each chapter builds on the other and builds on the other . so i've melded the passports of the country with just sort of a scientific system. >> i definitely can see it. there's a question about whether your book is in dialogue with race for profit, how the banks and real estate industry undermine black homeownership .

i've cited in the chapter on opportunity and i commend to you. it's shocking how much whatever black wealth we had in housing has been taken, stolen from black people. through predatory lending, through these installment contracts which are have resurfaced. tommy c coates writes about it in the case for reparation how black people were preyed on installment contracts in the 60s where it's like you're buying a house on layaway and you don't get any equity until you make thevery last payment . but private equity funds after the foreclosure price in 2008, 2010 have prayed in the very neighborhoods that suffered the most for their

foreclosure prices because they were preyed on with pet predatory loans. upfront loans. they're going in there and they've been snapping up foreclosed houses but they might pay 5000 for it and turn it around . then sell it for 30,000 with an installment contract which is designed to fail. they want installment buyers to miss payments. they want you to fail and what do they do? they turn it up and it to another person so they are transferring hard earned dollars from essential workers tighten. and i learned this stuff in part from the book. as animated i am, it makes me angry. descendents can't win even when they're trying to win . >> cheryl, let me go back to the bronx. there is a person who notes

that the bronx is majority latino and the question is whether or what the key differences are between the black experience and the latino experience. of courseas some people who are both .>> the key difference is that black people i told you the story about the great migrants. before like the 1990s i'd say. let's say 1980s. black people were the only population of that singled out for hyper segregation. right? latinos were moderately segregated. before, this is matthew's book american apartheid. at one point, in the 20th century there were nearly 50 hyper segregated cities in this country .

and all of them were places where the great migrants ended up in large numbers . so the segregationist is a defining feature of the african-american experience and it continuesto have consequence to this day . coates writes about this in the case for reparation. it's an atlantic magazine. for african-americans making $100,000 tends to live in a neighborhood with the accoutrements and amenities of what whites making $40,000 get. so but as the hispanic population grew with immigration, there is like some areas in new york and la where some hispanics became

hyper separate. but it's not the defining feature. the defining feature of oppression for latino people i would say is this sort of anti-immigrantrhetoric . donald trump, the things he said about mexicans. so you know, i say that both in the beginning, the intercept of this book and i say in the conclusion i want to make it clear i'm not saying other groups have not experienced oppression. i'm not saying they don't experience it now. i'm writing about residential caste and residential caste is constructed based on anti-black animus that continues. >> so it's unique, not that other groups haven't suffered

and continueto suffer . >> i make that clear. >> you do. it's time for the last question now and it is a question about asking if you have any hope. it seems so bad sometimes. it seems like there's no way forward, what keeps you going ? >> hope is a choice. we're in a tough time and overlaying a pandemic with this residential caste, there's a reason why there's disproportionate death in black and latinx communities. we had talked about this but residents caste causes health disparities. optimism is a choice. my feeling is the forces of darkness in this country and there's a lot of forces of darkness.

once you see this you will get up and try to fight for anything different. and we talk about some spending scenarios or some localities and places are making for something different. we have to have hope and have to keeptrying . because if we give up and don't try, it's just going to get moreof the same . >> i think the chapter when you talk about abolition is very hopeful. and i thank you again for writing the book and i'm >> thank you. thank you again for writing the book and i'm going to send it back over to hilary at the harvard book store. >> thank you so much, tomiko, for doing this for me. >> my pleasure. >> thank you both actually. this is really wonderful and thank you to our audience out

there for spending your evening with us. you can learn more about this important book and purchase "white space, black hood" on harbor.com. on behalf of harvard book store here in cambridge, massachusetts, have a good night, keep reading and everyone please be well. >> here's a look at publish industry news. former trump is releasing a book of photos in his time of office title our journey together is published by winning team publishing cofounded by donald trump, jr. and will go on sale december 7. the "new york times" has released their annual list of the 100 notable books of the year. this year's nonfiction titles include annette gordon-reed on juneteenth, carter, the american war in afghanistan, john the quarters woke racism, maggie nelson on freedom and the chancellor just to name a few. a memorial to the late english novelist virginia woolf is being criticized for its planned location. the statute of the novel is

seated on a park bench was to be position overlooking the thames river. critics argue her suicide by drowning in 1941 is a reason to move the memorial to another site. according to npd bookscan print book sales were up close to 12% for the week ending november 13. adult nonfiction sales had another strong week and are up almost 7% for the year. booktv will continue to bring you new programs and publishing news and you can watch all of our past programs anytime at booktv.org. >> weekends bring you the best and nonfiction books on booktv. booktv. coming up hillary clinton and mystery writer louise penny discuss her international thriller state of terror. university of illinois journalism professor nikki usher offers her thoughts on the challenges facing american journalism in her book news for the rich white and blue. aunt about books form new democratic congressman steve

israel thoughts on opening a new book store, plus bestseller lists, new releases and other news from the publishing world. and on "after words" in his latest book woke ink inside corporate america social justice, vivek ramaswamy argues corporate america is signing on to woke culture only to increase profits. watch booktv every weekend and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. >> here's a look at the best-selling nonfiction books according to politics and prose bookstore in washington, d.c. topping the list is david when grow and the late anthropologist david gravers critical look at the development of human society in the dawn of everything.

that's followed by betrayal. the aftermath of the 2020 presidential election. after that are memoirs by actors, kal penn you can't be serious, and stanley, taste, my life through food to wrapping up or look at politics and prose bookstore best-selling nonfiction books is journalist steven roberts tribute to the life and career of his late wife cokie roberts. some of these authors have appeared on booktv and you can watch their programs anytime at booktv.org. >> good evening, everyone. it's a good to have you here. for afo very special event produced by doubleday in partnership with three iconic independented bookstores. templars literary foundation associate with kepler books in menlo park. bookshop santa cruz in santa cruz, california, and book soup in west hollywood. thank you to all of you for