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♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ hi and welcome to the festival of books and am joshua smith and san diego union tribune in today's guest and authors "disasterolgy" & kim mccoy, "waves and beaches" and recently crafted the third edition of the marine science classes, the powerful dynamic in the seat and a ghost and samantha is expert in emergency management of the book, ("disasterology") and oceanographer kim mccoy ("waves and beaches") . and kim let's start with you and you years at sea including a remote region is very

interesting, but first edition of this book was initially written in the 1960s by a mentor of yours if i'm not mistaken, and can you tell us about how they book impacted your career and how you came to create a relationship later in life predict. >> we became friends only 90s, and the first edition of the waves and beaches and when i was studying the dynamics and that certainly influenced me early on and luckily this first real job i had enough geography was away dynamics and it was a very broad and talented guy who knew the presidents hand call source of wonderful things he did, and his career. and i met him at the pirates associations meeting in san

diego in the late '90s, and he was talking about getting gold. and if then i went up to him and i said thank you for writing the first edition of the waves the beaches and he said i'm not really interested in these modern racks, i'm interested in the ancient history. >> hitting did you ever think you would form a relationship with this guy who wrote such a classic text that informed your early life. >> not at all, we would meet once a week or so and the pirates association and we interacted quite a bit was twice a week and he would give me things to read and sort of like a father to son homework type of thing and after a year or two,

handed me a copy of this second edition and said read this and then tell me what it means to you m of this "waves and beache. and so i did it and here we are 20 years laterts because he liky edit and it we had other things, i know his family and i know his every generation of the great-grandchild some really involved in with the family still. and you know, it was sort a father and son experience although he is about 35 years older than me and he died in the year 2000, and so the efforts of doing this was for sort of went

mute for a while because he had passed away but he just received the rights back prior to his death and his daughter asked me to well, would you want to finish the third edition and i said well i would be honored to do it. and finally hooked up with the publisher and over the last five years, put out this very substantial change for the third edition of the "waves and beaches". >> it seems like this is almost a new work of art here that you have created and i am wondering, who did the design because the "waves and beaches", the third edition here, the arts in this thing is gorgeous, the pictures are amazing and who put all that

together. >> some of those the diagrams the figures are modern versions of the drawings that he did himself, he drew them himself, those are black and white and myself and christina and another person, turned this all into sort of a thing and then myself and christina and james the picture and under decided on all of the pictures. and a couple of the diagrams are my original ones and some of the images. it's really emerging of the experiences in my experiences over the last 70 years. and he started back in 1946.

>> it really is a gorgeous book to hold them in just a look through it's quite remarkable and i think you did a very good job on this third edition. and can we go to samantha, you or your book on your personal experience, notably time spent in new orleans as a teenager, can you tell us about how those experiences informed your career path what drew you to places that are suffering from disaster like this. >> so yes, i started to do disaster work ande i grew up in maine but i had gone down to the city after the flood does to volunteer and when i got there, i was just completely blown away by the scale of destruction they are i had never been anything close to it before it is really

struck by how long it would take and how many people would need to be involved in that recovery and him he needs were going and met throughout the city and particularly in certain neighborhoods and so i ended up moving to new orleans doing all kinds of recovery work in the city. and i ended up being in new orleans with a disaster half of that so we were helping with response and recovery as well and finding these other disasters that were happening around the country andrs startig to find a lot of different similarities which were the challenges that were coming up in these events that led to me of going to grad school to learn about what research does about the disasters and how you should manage them. let me to the work that

i do now teaching at and researching and speaking publicly about the disasters, we can do to make our response better. >> and you do a lot of different things besides teaching in your testifying before congress recently. what is that like, it seems like your fork is more relevant than ever and are you feeling that personally. >> yes, i don't sleep much and i have been very fortunate to be able to take on more of a public role and being in a position to research not only my own research but to share a great research from other researchers from decades past and all of the world and really talk to one of the local communities and organizations about how that

research may affect the work they are doing in their own communities and also working with emergency managers and to see how the research can influence their practice and also really fortunate to have the opportunity to be able to talk with policymakers and elected officials to try to again see what we can do to influence our emergency management policies and more effective and disaster justice. >> you do such a great work, and says and this is very overwhelming and you think this is something that it shows you or you chose this want to work >> is a great question, i knew within 24 hours the first night of the disaster work was that what i should be doing and the fact that i was writing this book, i have also been a lot and

trying different elements of disasters happening. [inaudible]. and it kind of made a lot of sense and i will say that i knew nothing about emergency management i did not have any sense of anything related to disasters is very focused it on new orleans itself and really muted as kind of this one off kind of crazy thing that happened other than seeing the product of all of these policy decisions in a minute unnecessarily connecting back to what our risk in the future was but the climate changes the development decisions and when did that actually look like. and the path for me and it didn't know exactly what was but it was kind of their word. >> and wasn't something that was

rewarding and are you happy or is it frustrating at times. >> it is very frustrating, costly there's disasters happening everything a day somewhere in the world and they needed decision made an the policies and implemented initially to be the instruction that comes with these disasters and it is endlessly frustrating event on the same time, we know what to do to make a better and we know the kinds of policyin changes many amino what needs to happen in the local level state level and federal level is really matter of actually getting these implemented. and, there are more disasters happening all across the country and around the worldldsa and pee are highly paying attention to this and in the near future, a

moment on how we think about it and how we manage our risk. >> anybody wanting to read this, this is a dissection of everything they could go wrong with disaster relief in case after case. you're really making this a part how many people fall through the cracks in these efforts. >> thank you, there are goals, this book was to really provide a framework on how the people in think about disasters rather than just having it as reactive and respond, how can we process. >> kim, on a switch back to you, really kind of spice of this latest version of the class a, the climate events and disasters the last few decades and can you

tell us how the original text which involved a lot of scientific diagrams and explanations about how the waves the beaches work basically, just from a scientific perspective and can you tell us out that informs the climate events related to oceanography today and why is it important to packages altogether. >> i think what samantha covers from a disaster management perspective and "waves and beaches" from what causes the waves and the storm surges and the water intrusions, "waves and beaches" wharf entered look at it from a causal manage point and if you topical suggestionsew of what to do emily samantha, and your deepwater horizon

disaster in the gulf of mexico to show the complexity of that,a because of this waves and other things but the notion and the jurisdiction of the super complex for that. this british company owned by it is was comfort under company operated in the u.s. waters and if so who has control to manage the disaster, this is a disaster a disaster management and so when fema arrives, inasmuch wealth there is no single explosion on the rise but a leaking roof, individually the beams are rotting the new roof is running in the ruins your furniture and you jake can't keep buying new furniture. so miami for instance, $7,500,000,000 next five years just on pumps and a matter of

keeping the saltwater for the drinking water and everything, and san diego, of all kinds coastalry structures and indonea dealing with really capitol of thesi country because they've bn battling the sea level rise for over 20 years in here just north of where i said, the train tracks, and assessed can take several billion dollars to rebound it so will pay for that so everything, the techniques that the mentor despite, think not even been thought of really, fiscal any point in any account for that, countries like the netherlands is doing excellent job. so "waves and beaches" is looking at the causal and interacting with the coastline and then the topping into

geopolitics was meant and as is really describes how humans interact in a policy manager detention policy a little bit. >> we should mention that we can't stop talking about fires but in the southeast is a big issue when you have a case at the belmar cliffs and what we're going to do about that of course will have to be public money to realign the train tracks there we get some of these are the issues that were dealing with cross-country.re >> is such as physical, "waves and beaches" is really the physics, remember the animals and interact with the physical structure so unhealthy the fly

hundred salmon supply is from upstream whether there's enough water to move it to the coast and really connecting is live in the seagrass and whether or not there's adequate nutrient to going to the ocean to satisfy those which in turn, the larger fish eat so really connected from the natural environment and part of that process. >> one of these books are particulate the elected officials and decision-makers who have to often come or comment from a layman's perspective and based on their understanding of science and will that these books are accessible to a large degree and help people to make good choices i think it. >> "waves and beaches" has been

a hundred and 50 and also another action plans, over 1000 pages of references. >> estimate it's an access point he really kind of jazz that this kind of textbook i believe, to begin with. well done. you've been all around the world on the ships and can you give is a personal story of climate change or see we door you seen firsthand what strikes you >> and any trips, i think in 1980, only to area an west of greenland but it has not been accessible since 1840, in the last group that went there,

died, sir john franklin because the ice was to thickly cut stock then try to walk out, they all died t for and we were the first group going there in 1980, then 40 years later, cruise ships go up in that area and the ice, the penguins it species that had been living there for 5000 years, are being replaced by former species of penguins, the bones and stuff like that that you confirm to get an idea of which species and temperatures and these are visible changes would hundred. in california, kelp was like the force, learning and kelp forster

running, is really really diminished in southern california inviting it further north printed the whole ecosystem, almost is collapsingt it's massively under stressed and remember, their heat waves in the ocean also these are five - 10 degrees warmer than normal so all these fire in the ocean is getting stressed during these peak periods, if ever been at sea but was swimming two days ago the ocean that it was great and i'm going again at a super warm. >> anybody lives in san diego those the beaches have been warmer. and samantha, coming from a

detailed somebody disasters in iraq, what is going to do with take away from us like what you want to people to walk away with understanding better. >> i thank you so a good all of these disasters inhabited and talk about katrina and maria and harvey and other jemima talk about repetitive settings for main and i talked about my experience in north dakota the flooding and they are all kind of - but many they do have more similarities than differences i think sometimes when you the someplace in your experiences a disaster or urinary of the county has a repetitive type of hazard and again, it is about

what is happening in your community, is really unique and you're the only one experiencing this i hope this book what it does is demonstrate that actually these are things that a lot of people are having these experiences we'd on the one hand that is terrible but on the other hand, the means that there are bigger policy changes we can help to shift. and then we can talk about national policy changes to go down and affected the local level we don't need to go to making these individual policy changes, which frankly the situation wherein now, we don't necessarily have time to do that in so hopefully, this demonstrates that and just people that you are not alone in your community and that other people are experiencing this and i hope it inspires these local

groups to reach out to other groups across the country and sergeant were together. they lobby for the changes to the emergency management policies really ultimately to demonstrate that these disasters are not inevitable. but even given that the climate change and corporate development decisions and and think that we can do to prevent the disasters from happening or how it would minimize the distractions what is happened. >> it and want to do to feel like you have to go through policy debate here but what can we do to scale up disaster relief in the united states. >> autofocus on fema at the national level and emergency management agency and currently

fema is an agency within the department of homeland security, post 911 change and so taking that out of dhs and returning until the cabinet level agencies, is kind of the number one policies and has that, we really need to be talking about the catastrophe of the emergency management systems across the country. there is an emergency manager are agency of some form but unfortunately, in most places especially the rural communities you have a hard time whose acting as a fire chief and given all of these researchers, and resources in which is hazardous mitigation, we know anything happening so really growing in that capacity and hiring more

appeople increasing the fundingf our local emergency management agency would be huge in aiding the local communities to do things even like these mitigation grants the federal government which are doing it those adaptation projects that they want to be doing. i think we will start to see a lot more of the resiliency for what they call it, resiliency or adaptation strategies going forward at a lot of what the cities have been doing over the last five years, starting to figure out how they can trade their carbon footprint and most of their monies g going into the climate action plans but i think what will happen is that we will realize that the impact of the climate change is really coming home to it is hard pretty and had to figure out how to live.

exactly and we are at that point where we did not act quickly enough, and there are still things that we can and have to do because of the claim and change but we are facing consequences that are now when you can't print those communities with a consequent this and we also have to understand that they don't only have the climate change that is causing it does, is development and all of these decades and decades of policy decisions that have kind of come together and let us take to where we are now so i absolutely hope you are right, that there is going to be a focus on adaptation it and really hope as well that they're focusing on the climate adaptation and we recognize that the managers have been doing essentially that for a very long

time in terms of mitigation. and we haven't been fighting is known for decades and we want to make sure that we are not completely investing in the really using it this experience that we do have emergency management to this kind of climate adaptation contacts. >> do you have any thoughts on how san diego can prepare for these coming up heat waves and such. >> understanding the phenomenon of creating the disasters i thank you so fundamental or potentially creating disasters for instance, in the netherlands, and a terrible flood in the 50s, finger in the dike kind of thing and thousands of people died there and they took a national policy

and what we needed to go off what samantha just said, we need a national policy to approach these problems because climate change is not as a local issue, it's really international, is global we live in a globalized climate and globalized world and economically we cannot disassociate what is happening in china, or the indian ocean without recognizing it that if something happens there will change the insurance rates and the cost of thing so here in san diego, it has a problem with the shorthand in the south bay, the san diego bay where the sultan all of that, and what will you do about it. a lot of the building there is on stilts because planning

thanks for the long term, most cost-effective way of anything so instead of putting something i'm going to put a patch on the road and six months or a year later, is falling apart of the coastal structures needs to be a part of a some nothing, they shouldn't be able to withstand only the structural requirements and hundred years but also the anticipated climate change of these changes almost certainly will be occurring at the limits of what we think they are now >> and the use of seawall to try to protect the property and infrastructure along the coast and of course that means that the basically doing away with the beach in those areas and what you think these walls. >> is sort of a schizophrenic approach because just like

upstream, they permit sand mining announcing, they have beach - that is schizophrenic to do something like that and they need to recognize going of all of summer can be good for the entity right behind the seawall but in less you're doing something gigantic like the national policy, those patches on the coastal portions of the land, are not going to do much and 40 percent of the land between san diego and la are built with c walls of concrete or rib wrap and defense will still go around us and are in the patches and undermine it. san francisco is a good example, the coastal houses going down 40 and 50 feet and you can see those now expose completely.

and so you really have to recognize that you shouldn't permit in areas that are in harm's way and samantha mentioned, you can buy a house and real estate at a national level to preclude the damage because you're fixing the damage it the local hurricane katrina 500 million or somethingn like that and spend 15 million and keep it from happening is much better than having a million dollars in reserve for a disaster. so is understanding the phenomenon that creates disasters and they can be mitigated in approaching building a long-term approach and those that cannot be mitigated, cost-effective just retreat. >> important ratings and great topics in from our authors today, kim mccoy who crafted the third edition it of the

scientific climate and "waves and beaches" and i just want to say again, god, this book is gorgeous and anyone out there, you definitely should get it just a look at it and rated of course and samantha, "disasterolgy" and ("disasterology") and oceanographer kim mccoy ("waves and beaches")ro and this is a master class and what is gone wrong with the disastrous over the lastt 20 years and thank you so much for being with us and really appreciated and the audience out there, even for just dvr but in either of these brush from a number of independent booksellers, more information at shop/fbo be in also supporting the san diego canceled by visiting and visiting literacy san diego .org and if you enjoyed this program, but more at books, thank you again for clicking in and it is

been the san diego festival of books, meet the author in the q&a series. >> sunday, january 2nd, historians joins us live to talk about the history of the united states and civil wars, and the reconstruction era in the book titles included the emancipator, and the canteen in the biography in the civil war enjoying the conversation facebook comments texts and tweets, sunday, janua, it nine eastern on in-depth apple tv. >> to be successful in 20s in conversations. [inaudible]. on c-span's podcast recordings.

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join us on this podcast. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ >> next, on book tv interview other program looks at the root causes of california's 2018, campfire, the deadliest u.s. wildfire in the century and she's interviewed it by terry baker society of america enforcers ceo.