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tv   After Words Lizzie Johnson Paradise  CSPAN  December 23, 2021 4:58pm-5:56pm EST

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>> next hundred tvs author interview programs afterwards, journalist lizzy johnson this is the root cause of california's 2018, campfire the deadliest u.s. wildfire in the century she's interviewed by terry baker society of america's forrester ceo, foresters and afterwards is a weekly interview program with guest host interviewing at top nonfiction authors about their latest works. >> thank you so much for joining us and discussion about your yobook "paradise" and surviving america's wildfire and giving the opportunity to speak with you and on behalf on 9000 book members andnd professionals in firefighting. and i have to say that i really really enjoyed in the book and the way in which you put this together and only kick things off by hearing more about you and i've been in a story myself
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where found in nebraska to journalism at city hall in san francisco andn fighting wildfires, just how did you make that journey and i'll have a q&a afterwards when looking forward to hearing where you are and your road along the way. >> yes absolutely and thank you for having me. my first job out of college in the chronicle in california, and covering local politics and they had their own kind of fires so after doing that for a few years, realized it needed a change of so a general assignment desk and around the time the wildfires happening in their starting to get really bad
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and in 2017, and shocked the state into motion a and after that, the acceleration just continued and every summer, it seems like the fires, thousands more homes are burning down. .. been covering fires for a while and spent a lot of time in the town of paradise when the fire was burning and afterwards in the ways that disaster lived on even after the fires had gone out. >> that's quite the journey and i can imagine city hall is its own type of fire. and you talk about how it such a greatce community in such a smal degree of separation.
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a well-known fact is that i work for the same company. so we have a connection that we didn't even know about. >> i oversaw the man-made source so there was a small piece of public land in nebraska. >> guest: that's so while the here. i feel normally when i talk to people from nebraska to say i think i flew over it one time. >> host: or drove through it. >> guest: drove a tractor to
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schoolot so very cool that you work there too. >> host: with that and as you talk about your journey in coming to this space i really wanted to give you some kudos in what i saw was your technical knowledge around forestry and fire fighting into your storytelling. it's really profound for me and one of those moments that was so special like this is impressive. you know some of the terms that you also use them on a way where i pick up on that. the person who is not a professional forester it made sense to them. a great piece on explaining moving to football field every second that's just all the time kind of an a neck dote in
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firefighting. i wanted to understand a bit more about how you develop that understanding of technical expertise on how it works. >> guest: as a journalist so much of my job is translating things helping people understand technical concepts that maybe they don't otherwise. particularly when it comes to fighting fires. actually by starting the fire there. so in trying to learn as much as i could about it i went through a professional fire academy with the county of san francisco. it's about structure and firefighting academy. they had me out on an engine and i had to go put out the fire so that taught me how it felt and how heavy that gear is and how
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hard it is and how did gear felt in my hand and then also just all of the terminology in understanding that this is what it means on the ground and this is helping people understand what it was like. plus go that's definitely emerson yourself in the world of firefighting and i'm sure it was quite the experience and definitely having experience withan that was there anything that resonated like some of the terminology or was this something that i would have never thought this is the name word this past name. >> guest: i think for me it was the thing that really stuck with me was what the terminology was anymore living the experiences of firefighters.
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every summer felt like i was appearing to a fire chief again and again saying this is the new normal to the point where that sense of the firefighting academy talking about that it's an emotional experience and how you carry those with you. dealing with a situation where you can'ttu put the fire t and you can't save homes and it comes down to just saving lives realizing that firefighting is being taught and we have seen more and more of these firefighting -- that's a conversation about what you do as a firefighter when you can't write the fire. plus go that's a great point and i notice some of that in your book as well. the legacy of firefighters being
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able to stop the fire or save someone's home and then in essence when you losese in firefighting methods there is basically like you mentioned the emotional toll which we don't talk about much. it's more and more of a conversation not only that the folks are trying to protect oftentimes they may leave in some of these communities and have to try to fight fire of their home and families have to be taken out and be taken somewhere else. so there really is e a growing challenge in a more normal conversation can be had about that. thank you for sharingng that. the next that i had was in the concept of how is a professional
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in this sector oftentimes to speak about the concept of being willing to engage with communities in a way that's related to value and die you in the land versus jumping into a very technical explanation for what happened or what's going to happen. have you seen that there are other barriers specific areas around that, very technical aspects and what we are trying to convey to thee' public around firefighting and what we can do to get ahead if the fire before it happens and to convey to the public around the fires and to convey. i'm talking to a lot of people
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about it so i'm just curious about that concept of the translation of this communication. >> guest: i think you know again people who don't understand firefighting i think it's hard for them to rap their heads around it and they think that space that civilians in first responders are occupied together becoming broader because these disasters aren't just fighting homes fires. also educating people on how to prepare. that's a tough job because of the knowledge gap. if your firefighter andd you've seen these really bad fires summer after summer it can be hard to tell a community that hasn't burned down or narrowly managed avoiding it is a big threat.
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there's a little cognitive dissonance there. people are like well maybe we have had to take this seriously. i know the fire chief is telling me to pack a bag. the town is more so maybe i should a-ok. i think it's a tough talk for firefighters and firstst responders. you have to tell the people how to best prepare themselves when people don't always necessarily understand it and why they need to be prepared. >> host: it's a great point and it's that piece of being reactive versus proactive. even when like you mentioned some communities are like it just didn't retest the last time. i'm originally from florida so
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as hurricanes and it's the same thing. everything was fine so it's that theyfi challenge for first responders and communities. i think also the policy piece is one of those things that we look atd policy and the overall applications of those policies both from the national and the local level, the ability to engage in policy discussions and put policies in place that are helpful for what realities are raised on.n. so obviously i'm sure you may not have heard this the climate solution and there's a case that where do you see opportunities around the impact of these fires and the mitigation of these fires in the policy round and discussions that are happening now with the trees act in so many other things in the fore street -- the natural resources.
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i think the big thing is just making sure were all having the same conversation. i think it's difficult to change being proactive like you said versus reactive. people are on the same page having the same conversation about these fires are like again just trying to help him places that haven'tli burned down. public support is hard and i think that's the biggest thing right now is the conversation we are having and we need to take this's seriously because these fires are getting worse year after year. as stillll being in that conversation and tryinger to hae a similar conversation it makes
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me think about the tools in the toolbox term and obviously those things that we try to do ahead of the game in particular what comes to mind with the prescribed fire. it's a national position statement when you describe fire and i'm sure you understand the prescribed fire is not as strongly adopted in the west. so i'm just curious about your thoughts on again how we can continue to move this conversation forward on the proactive races were that visual and in this case when you have a community affected by a large wildfire the response of seeing smoke in the air. knowing it's intentional for the greater good? >> guest: everything you are saying who are saying to show might admit something that happenedst last summer and for
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those of you that don't remember this county the town of paradise was hit by the camp fire and again this year by the dixie fire. lastme summer lightning strikes submitted massive blazes and ended up running for a couple of small communities near paradise. the local fire departments realize they needed help and it took timell to get the community on board and to get the funding for that and they needed help. they were trying to secure grants for prescribed fire. it just took a really long time to get the community on board.
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people are frustrated when the fire world through because they said we were so close to maybe there was something we could have done to lower intensity of the fires. that's a challenging thing to hear and i mean especially with the conversations i've had in my career have been with firefighters and managers about communities like paradise in those landscapes. it's not a matter of if as to the community in that space firefighters that are successful really is a key component and he just never know. that race against time a lot of it. anotherol step down at policy is really and i was curious about your thoughts not so muchut on e policy or strategy as you were
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talking about in your book with pacific gas and electric and the whole conversation around d energizing the line and i think there was's push back saying it could do this it's going to re-energize the line. i think that goes back to an earlier point about getting ahead of these things in the communities and realize we have these utility portals that can be very impactful and even have a more significant impact and some of the challenges. i'm just wondering how would
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that come together and would it help convey that [inaudible] >> guest: you made so many good points. it's that situation we have found ourselves in particularly as climate change worsens and the environment we are in is different than it was 10 years ago so you have this really vulnerable infrastructure that goes right across the an area that super dry with dead and trees.
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i think people understand more now that it's really important to try to problem solve and away thatto is possible for pacific s & electric company which is the biggest power threatop in california to turn off the power. it's a tool in the toolbox, to steal your phrase, that we have right now and there are serious issues with that in people who are medically vulnerable have dropped medical care and they can charge their phones. i get it that it's very very hard. at the same time we have seen summer after summer headlines of pg&e starting another fire. we haven't had a year as long as i can remember where that hasn't happened. i think the issue with that is people mostly see the
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inconvenience. it's hard to actually see the trade-off of that because you can't just say oh this is the fire that started in this b fire would burn to this community and burned through this i many home. there is note tangible thing that you can say this is what we prevented. people are left with a bad taste inow their mouth of another week without power and we didn't have air-conditioning inin our homeso even if intellectually there is a pointt to that emotionally yor experience of the inconvenience or inconvenienced by intrepid medical care that says really hard thing to overcome. it's just the rally that we are living in now and it comes that what we are saying earlier about making sure we are having this conversation and understanding these fires aren't going away and we are living with their
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legacy of how we have managed the forest and how we have approached climate change and how we have built our homes and hardened the grid so now we we are facing hard choices and sometimes those choices mean being inconvenience. >> host: those are great points. really important point especially again the natural environment is our reality and it has been our reality and out so significant. we have to be mindful of that. that leads to my next question so perfectly timed. you mentioned during town hall meetings the county sheriff had to engage an answer difficult questions and part of that you referenced the challenge to pg&e obviously. also the mismanagement of the forest through policies related
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to keeping the fire as small as possible and i will be totally honest it's one of those moments in the book where it is just like you know it took a step back as a forester and i said there's no such thing. it was good. it was good to have that point. we all have a stake in how these lands are managed and how we sustain it in how we operate through that. they think there's an important balance their how we sustainably managed forests in the presence of our infrastructure. i wanted to thank you for putting that peace in their because at first it was just like i was taken aback a little bit. i think there's a key point and it's not so much that it's not something we can move past.
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what is the evolution of our forest management as we tend continue growing the wilder spaces? i wanted to get to this place around how we managed leading up to these fires. i'm sure some of the conversations that you may have had and the camp fire. ice were some of the conversations that came up about tree removal. this piece of how do you address this in some cases where trees have obviously died during the fire. also that projection of what's to come and the projection of trees that will like lee not make an impact homes and roads. i'm just wondering if you had
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any conversations with community members where there was some of that response and concerns about the what they would look like and how trying to make these areas safefe for them where we will impact the same vistas that cause them to move to where thef were. >> guest: you have to remember that people loved paradise because of where was that. isth this town of 26,000 peoplen the foothills withan these big t a full canyon on both sides are people talkedd about the towering -- annika tells the first day of summer because the air smelled like warm and how at christmas they were covered in snow. people really love those trees and so i think after the fire one of the big things was what do you do with all of these trees that gave the town its
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identity. it's built-in to the environment and people's collective sense of identity. so many ofem those trees died ad i think the decisions surrounding the trees is emblematic around the larger conversations happening about the landscape because the conversation changes when you have people living there and you have homes there and if a the tree was to follow for you prefer it didn't hit a house or a car or person. as much as you love. it has to come down so that was one part of it conversation in the second part two is how do you pay for that? paradise was a very working class community. theyd always joked in town that the populace was either nearly dead or newlywed because of the
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demographics and a lot of retirees who wanted to live close to nature and younger families who could afford to build a life there. so not an extremely privileged demographic with a lot of expendable income to spend cutting down upwards of 50 to 100 trees on their property. again it's like how do you have those conversations when at a certain point choice feels like aev privilege and also it feels like your identity and you understand it's the right thing to do. at the same time it's emotional to look at the trees that were outside of your window your entire life and know that they all have to go. i think that makes it hard when you're having a culmination of a typical conversation that science conversation andin emotional conversation with people trying to decide what their community will become. let's go you know that's -- that resonates so much.
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one of the parts of your book where you're discussing the school bus going down the road and it's this road were one of the teachers was like i always thought this was rainforest in the bus driver says this is fuel and we are taking the us down this road with all this patch and shrubs and vegetation and pine trees. it's that culmination of the worst possible scenarios and situations. oftentimes your mind just doesn't go there. it just doesn't go there and the challenge is remembering -- and i want to ask on the policy side of things and you mentioned the challenges of theic evacuation d every thing from originally having a four lane highway that
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was brought downon to two and trying to slow the traffic in town to be safer and not to mention also running scenarios and exercises in the small population of the community coming out to participate in those exercises. i was wondering in your conversations with the town managerif and some of the community members what were some of those thoughts and is there some reflection on what it was like two in some cases having it nor some ofco those concerns afr being brought forward by calfire and others related to something happens we need to evacuate? >> guest: i sound like a broken record. i keep coming act do we need to have the same conversation and make sure we are on the same page. it is important tole note that
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paradise is a town that was pretty well prepared as far as towns go. it optionally thought about an evacuation plan and they had tried to practice it. of course the people in town saw it more as an inconvenience andl largely avoided the evacuation drill. not unlike when you think about how annoyed he you would feel if you had to practice an evacuation in front of your house. think it's just human nature to assume we won't actually have to use it. that's what they are up against and i agree that paradise was a really fire prone price -- fire prone place. again this town was tucked between two geological chimneys that would carry the fire right up and there were very few evacuation routes and they knew people would be trapped if a major fire were to roll through and they knew was a possibility. it's sort of like it's the one
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in 100 year flood. that is something that a town hall is grappling with. how do you balance the concerns of theirir constituents making your town a beautiful and safe place to live inmm understanding you have a limited amount of money coming in because it was a more impoverished community and it's not like their coffers were overflowing and they could just build another road on the side of the canyon to help people get out. they were dealing with that while also trying to understand how much do you plan for the 100 year fire? i think there was decades of decision-making where people are planning for the fires that they had none in the past and those buyers never burn through town and out we stopped. there were decisions that could have l made that again it's impossible to know without looking in a crystal ball.
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it would have made the evacuation efforts a little easier a little smoother. there are other things to look at too. paradise is so emblematic of all these places across california and across the west of how you keep people safe. how do you make those hard decisions were the calculus is changing? you can't just think your town is going to be safe next time because we see fires being put out all the time. you have to start putting money into places and having to make those hard decisions of how are you going to get people out because that 100 year fire we are seeing is a lot more frequent. >> host: very true and you made the point if it be everyday safety or the 100 year saved
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the? that takes a rewiring of how we look at the whole scheme of things. actually i think you mentioned something related to some of the current conversations happening around infrastructure legislation. and the fact forests are included in these infrastructure bill's. forests are just as important as ridges -- bridges and roads. i'd love to hear your thoughts on that now that we are as a nation we are willing to see the forest almost the same light as roads and bridges. the professionals say we have been telling you all along.
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now it really is significant to start looking at a forest and outweigh.n >> guest: i think infrastructure on its own is not very to a lot of people so they don't really think about it or in particularou people think of like a crumbling bridge versus a forest. i think again having those conversations is really important because it could change the outcome of the fate of towns like paradise. i've been spending a lot of time thinking about tying up empty lots near parks to try toco keep that as a firebreak area in case the fire rollp through town. you need moneynd for that and that's not something that these communities always have. infrastructure bill's help with that and they help beyond this on future conversations about how are we building and how cant we make this safer and where
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should we be putting communities in the future and those were conversations that were happening as much a couple of decades ago so it's encouraging to know that now people are talking about it more. >> host: i have a little bit of a follow-up or does that make you a little more hopeful for communities like paradise and others that are the small rural communities especially in the mountains that policymakers at the national level are starting to see ande tie this picture ino it and really healthy forests. is there more hope given the catastrophic impacts of a fire like that? >> guest: it's good that people are talking about solutions. for a s long time i felt a lot f doom and gloom because so much of my job is holding a mirror up
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to the problem to get people to pay attention. when i started covering fires a couple of years ago there were very few people that covered it long-term and show the ways in which communities have really struggled. at the time it was really hard to keep covering that same kind of story line over and over with there never being a break in the narrative and there never being aa solution. it is encouraging to think that maybe this isn't something we have you relive every single year for eternity if you have smart people that are making decisions and trying to figure this out. >> host: i think you'll find yourself in unique company between hope and politics so congratulations on that. >> guest: wow what a way to phrase it. [laughter] one of the things i wondered to follow-up with you
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on is your book in and of itself can you tell me a little bit about your method of writing and covering these stories as it's a bit of doom and gloom and all the pieces aren't there to make this better so stepping away from the journalism question you delve into how you wove together different characters and icycy characters apologetically. i know these were people and there were stories that tie to this fire in paradise. i just wanted to get some of your thoughts on the steps in writing a book about this and i'm sure that's in the headspace of what you've seen over andre over again. >> guest: i ended up writing the book because i had irked ported so much that it couldn't be in the newspaper anymore and
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i thought my editor is going to be really mad at me if i write something out of this because it obedient hair newspaper and there's that sense of wanting to create something long-lasting that would help keep understand what was happening in california particularlyia because every tie i would either visit the east coast or visit my familyly in te midwest there is the sense of ignorance and people not really understand just being like oh yeah california's burning again. that always rubbed me the wrong way because the smoke that people size sewing convenient everything that made a people's lives werere people's lives andt wasn't just making the news. spike in help people understand what these fires feel like and the impacthe that they have and what it means for the rest of us and that is just this climate
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change and it's here and we are with it in its most evident right now with the ferocity and intensity of these fires been writing a book i would say i'm an expert first and foremost a normal peoples lives for they learn as much as i can about the fire in the electrical grid. i pride myself on getting to the people who understand what their lives look like in the hard decisions they had to make when the fire world into town that morning and after-the-fact figure out whether they could rebuild their lives or would rebuild their lives. this is something that will haunt them forever. how do you survive fire like that? i did my own reporting and that really excessive about it. every call that came to the sheriff's office and the local police departmentro that morning and i read thousands of pages of
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documents and read as much as i could about firefighting and looked in the archives of paradise and st. francis county trying to figure out and writing in a way where you were learning about the people in the town is also learning about forestry management and how we are building an estate and learning about the fire risk and learning about what we can expect next. it's like balancing his just so where you are learning as you were getting immersed in these people's lives. >> host: i think you achieved your goal. it reallyy was something that i've done with so much work in this field for years and speaking of that in your research you happened across some tribal knowledge. can you talk a little bit about what you discovered there especially as you wrote that
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into the book and it seemed like it had to be in the book on this story of the history of the impacts of fire and respect for land and the community following all of that. i'm curious to hear a little bit more about that piece of work as well. >> guest: yeah so in early 2019 is a few months after the camp i fire hit so i decided too on it to her with the leader of the butte county fire counsel. she had started doing these trips to show people what it looked like after the fire and they would take politicians and civilians and there was this very heartwrenching o way with which she was trying to change people's opinions and get themco to understand. on this tour there were two members of a tribe. we are standing on the spot to
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overlooking the community and everything underneath us is burned to a crisp. they told us their story about these two people in their community and how they had this massive wildfire that was in early similar to the camp fire and how they had to move away. eventually they came back and saw that their home was greener from the fire. there was somethingng about that and hearing it i was like how come we haven't heard about this in our history books and how come this is the first time i'm hearing about this legend when i've been doing all of this research in the archives and hadn't stumbled on it at that point. they knew that it needed to be in the book because i think it offers an echo of the fact that these fires happen over and over and they are very cyclical.
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there's this wealth of knowledge that totally got stomped out when the settlers came over from europe and brought over this idea of fire being a really evil tank. i think we still see remnants of that. we see today with a big buyers rolling through that it's a bad thing. buyer is a healthy part of the environment that i think there's something we can learn by looking at indigenous knowledge and how they lived on the landscape and use fire as a tool and it made the environment a healthier place. ever wanted to go through that entire story to help people understand there's this whole great history of fire management that so often we don't hear about and the ways that we deal with fires should be much more nuanced than they are. as to thank you for that.
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that's reallyio insightful and something you put a lot of thought into on how we. the space for those conversations both from the standpoint of meetings and discussions to also just being open-minded to those discussions and how various tribes have managed land and what that means and how we need to really think through that and as now to talk about through this whole discussion the concept of living in harmony as much as possible and the infrastructure what that means. speaking of some that people in- your book some people stood out. one of those people was an emergency dispatcher. you mentioned she had to be tough and assertivein being a
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woman in a male-dominated field. i wondered if you had more thoughts on that you're going through fire training school and the challenges that women face in fighting fires knowing their efforts to increase the opportunity especially because of the shortage of firefighters. there are challenges so i wondered if you wanted to add additional comments on that? >> guest: to it takes a long time to change a culture and she felt like she had to be tougher than her colleagues and she was olike well it i might not always be tougher. i can be smarter and figuring out ways to be successful in a career that hasn't always been very welcoming to women. even when i went through my firefighting training and again that was two weeks out of my life so i can't speak to what it's like for all women.
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i remember at one point we would all go on these big runs together in one of the women in classes like i feel like at the try twice as hard to be taken have to seriously by these guys. that was in 2018. i think those prejudices still exist and is something that women are still confronting. visit their e-mailed dominate field. thee gluttony of these wildfire, i think that is something that can improve. we need morehe representation. >> very much so both from the standpoint of fighting the fires and also creating awareness and the perception that anyone can step in to these roles and be successful. that's one of the key pieces and there were a few comments throughout that you mentioned
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the book that either ended up with the firefighters you talk to deciding to fight fire for the summer and some that decided that was their career. any other insights for discussions on how firefighting, folks kind of fell fell into it and summonses not being aware it's great for a few extra bucks or know it you'll something inside of me and there's a theme throughout your book around the concept of fight, flightty or freeze and were obviously for firefighters there start calling to save property and to save lives and to help per day was curious about some of your thoughts and seeing how some are brought into the job.
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>> guest: i was struck by how much of helpers they were. they deeply wanted to help others out and that and the fact that you can be outside and you can work with your hands and you can meet people and you could feel like you are doing something in a way that maybe you couldn't in the career you thought you were setting out to pursue. there were so many people i talked with there were going with universities to study something else and they worked seasonally as a firefighter for the summer and they realized itm was something and it got into their blood than they never stop doing t it. i've always enjoyed talking with firefighters because they do honestly just want to help and they want to help you understand i came from covering politicians
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who didn't't necessarily want to help you understand what they were doing like the firefighters. >> host: excellent, thanks for sharing that. you mentioned earlier that the fires would hit the same places and the impacts are exponentially impacting the community is both from actual impact to the trauma that r we face and what it means to see smoke again and to be concerned about safety and not way. i was curious about your thoughts on the same questions about the three different communities and i'm looking forward to getting your thoughts on these. given that we have these challenges around policy and changing climate and around how
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that impacts impacts communities would you see as an opportunity for us to improve the conditions of our forest just from a broad standpoint? >> guest: people always ask me for answers and i wish i had them. is it journalists what i do is holding a mirror up to the problems. i will say what i found there my reporting is i think we have to reckon with their new reality and understand that we need to start changing the way we are making decisions and figure out where to put money. for example in paradise so many of those homes have been around for decades. i think it was something like nine out of 10 homes were built in 1990 so those weren't home so that been built in a fire safe way. there is a piece of legislation built afterat homes certain date be constructed in a fire safe way.
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that did not. you can anything that existed before the legislation. that was something i heard a lot in paradise people wanting to build dispensable -- defensible space. i didn't have the money for funding to retrofit the home so having conversations about these places that exist what can we do to makee them safer and secondly confronting the fact that these fires are just going to go away next year. with that we need to start thinking critically about where we build new communities. is it a good idea to build a luxury apartment on a cliff that in the wild urban interface that is burned before and realizing that we need to start changing our decision-making and not
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think that won't happen because it will think those are the biggest banks, just having conversations about that and asking ourselves are we planning the worst-case scenario knowing that scenario will probably happen at some point and what can we did differently to prevent tragedy from happening again? >> host: a great point. is there any advice you would share with oysters and firefighters? >> guest: any advice? i think the thing that i come back to time and time again is that gap between the knowledge that you have is a forester in a firefighter in the knowledge that normal people have about the risk. when you are talking with someone you might not internalizetl how to tell them o it's important to pick one thing and make sure people know that
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you and that is to have a plan and to have a go bag. maybe scare people a little bit and tell them you need to know what to do if this happens because all the time you >> scrolling through facebook trying to figure out what they should evacuate or not for trying to -- is time that could save your life and helping people understand that they need to learn how to help themselves. >> host: you touched on that a little bit. what advice would you give policymakers?f >> guest: a lot of advice dispensing today. >> host: you've done a lot of studying and research so it's time to wow as with all your knowledge. >> guest: for policymakers i think the thing to remember sometimes those tough decisions at the right decisions especially this saves people's
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lives. it's hard to balance what constituents need in terms of wanting to have a safe community sometimes it's not in the best interest knowing they that could have long-term impacts that mightre kill people. need to think critically about fire danger in the state and how we are building and rebuilding and so often there's that sense of separation were legislators don't want to trample on people's well-being or their right to live and build their homes in the way that they want. i think we'll something to each other to be safe and to feel safe and that starts by what happens at the capitol. >> host: very much so. the last bit of advice and what
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would you share with viewers? >> guest: again just understanding the calculus has totally changed. you cannot just assume that you are going to be safe and that the fire won't come to your community even if it has been okay severalho times in the pas. have covered so many of these fires were people think they have time or they think it will be safe and it's heartbreaking to hear those phonecalls by people that get counted on a fatality list realizing that the risk is very real and you don't want to end up like that or you don't want put other people in a situation where they are risking their lives to save you and all of volunteers that had to go in with search-and-rescue dogs to pull remains out of the rubble. you have to know a plan for yourself and you can't just assume someone will come and save you.
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let's go that is a great point. thank you for all of that great advice and thank you for an amazing book. i'm telling plenty of my friends in the firefighting business about it and you've done a thoughtful job of incorporating stories into something that's digestible that hits on key points that we all need to think about an experience and hopefully it will help move us forward t in a positive directin around taking care of communities and our forest and it's important to myself myself and meyer cassation so thank you so much for your time today. i've really enjoyed having a chance to have a conversation with you and it's always great to speak with another nebraskan talk about something besides corn, cows and corn huskers. >> guest: was really nice talking to you too pretty was a
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great conversation and thank you for enjoying the book and recommending it to people.
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>> my name is jared porter i have the pleasure of conversations with dr. miguel de la torre. i'm your host and we are so glad you joined us the wearer before began a thank you for the key sponsors of the southern festival of books. the metro national art commission tennessee arts decommission vanderbilt university. thank you for your support that makes this possible and speaking of support the festivalak is fre for nonprofit event and donations from individuals

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