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tv   Woody Holton Liberty is Sweet  CSPAN  December 24, 2021 7:00pm-8:01pm EST

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our television programs are also available as a podcast and you can find them all our cspan now mobile app, anywhere you can get your podcast. >> cspan's american history tv continues now, you can find the full schedule for the weekend under program guide our >> the crunches of how and why things happen and sometimes it seems that it possesses many task and in his new book "liberty is sweet" he seeks out history of the american revolution it, and more than as thousand eyewitness accounts i can check the history of any of those are freely available online at you can read for yourselves and it can be found online, the website national archives through the national historical publications.
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in elementary schools across america under the declaration of independence and the battles led by george washington and looking back, nearly 250 years, the american revolution, and can appear inevitable in arranging and refuting military power such as braided risen requires involvement of people after in overalls plate roles played by women native americans and enslaved africans and african-americans. and focusing on often overlooked actors such as geography and acs and too often it july 4th, 1776, to washington's first presidency, the world of seven years of liberty and "liberty is sweet" gives us a fresh look of the market revolution it in the ups and downs of the social spectrum added college professor of history at the university of south carolina, teaches and
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researches early american history, and the american revolution it in the other of several books including adams, and the second book, under the americans, and the constitution and of the national book award. [inaudible]. and jonassen conversation, and professor of history of south carolina, also the director of the public history p program and faculty associate in americans studies at the international institute and nownt is here from them and thank you for joining us today. >> love, and thank you so much for being here and here is woody holton and i'm more excited to talk about his new book, "liberty is sweet" the hidden history of the american
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revolution it and really, what even claims in this book is about the hidden influences on the american revolution and can you talk about those and talking about the different groups that you highlight in this narrative in this incredibly amazing narrative about this hidden history and so let's jump into it, what are some of these major things and it is hidden influences and why have they come to shape your research so heavily. >> will first nicole, want to thank you foror doing this, souh carolina program with me and i have a lot of reasons to be proud of it and i hope this program will know the fact that we have two people who can have a conversation is really cool.
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>> what i really appreciate you taking your time so we are talking about are native americans who still occupies most of the confidence in 1776 and the guys declared independence called himself the continental congress. inut the native americans about the politics and of course, that also really helps gets the revolution started it and actually argue the work in the west, the indigenous people and now one in five, people in the 13 colonies where african-american it and they also usually influenced the revolution and in fact i argued that if it had not been some of the things they were up to, revolution might not haven ever come to the south which is really what a great wealth of north america was in a lot of the people in this economy was
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my home in the state of virginia so i think african-americans and it and influenced them in their own work both positively and negatively so that is another thing for the african-americans and the people would probably be surprised when i say that women are of all ranks and races at huge impact because they always do, and more as they we do and you and i share a grad student, has done amazingng work and in e continental army so maybe we will be able to talk about the work on that but i also followed through the advisor mary beth norton wrote about and that she was at cornell and the founder of the group and in pennsylvania of the women's groups. but she ended up in getting into
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some things with george washington that we are talking about so basically these groups that i mentioned, the t native americans the african-americans and the women at. >> yes and definitely want to get to talking about at cerise but wanted to start with this compelling and his compelling view as you open the book, this map that shows the continent as being a great in indigenous place and i do think that i am really compelled by why you chose this is a way to come into this and also how you set your book in the history of the revolution that you're sending it in and what i see as the wcontinuum or. [inaudible].
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and is also it is no morbid tell us a little bit about why you chose to highlight or centralize the consonant as an indigenous place first and why you have the focus on starting this history the revolution with the conflicts in ohio pretty. >> will be graded thanks, a lot of this on the map what was talking about america in 1736 and i do want to say. [inaudible]. to ask why the american revolution cabinet and you are asking the wrong question because it was rebel and the people in power, john hancock and john adams and george washington and thomas jefferson
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aversion in and satisfied with their life inti the british empe in 1862 and it's these also here who said it changes so this whole discussion about we are really talking about the experiences against the colony and they want to change and part of the change in the wood ultimately lead to the revolution will be to those. in the next slide is talking about, north america into this river but as was pointed out, that territory in mississippi is
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still occupied by native americans and it i think it is now primarily. [inaudible].ac and other native nations and one thing that i want to point out is that our boundaries between rethose native nations in the od about shows the way that another similar and north of cherokee but it's only worthy of the map and on the battery as native americans did not have boundaries, they did it. in africa and europe and the rest of the world, but thank you so important to see that these nations in a sense of having boundariesun and also how it is based on and i talk about this in the book, but they put towns
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in their. and they have gone to philadelphia and charlestown and went to charleston in zero, many of the towns were in the vast majority of them of what they did and so just their privacy is i only, itant but hope you an imaginary person. [inaudible]. american history ate all, if you did talk about why the american revolution have an and then you still got to go back because of this huge role they played an answer question about that, one role that they played was people and their land and that leads the british to drawti a line alg
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the crest of the appalachian mountains and you can t actually see in a the mountains, the shad area is west of the mountains and a list 7053, the british government said the land spectrum franklin or jefferson or washington, we cannot go in the shaded area coming by to say, basically the white area and you can understand why the british didn't that pretty in the british and just finished this wall that we call the seven-year war for the french and indian war against the french and spanish and their native allies almost all of the natives that you see in the turkeys are one of the reach out to them that you see on here, in that war, it was on the east
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side and of course the british eventually wanted on the french in north america, and they saw that were but it was long and british officials understood it in the parliament understood today that the most expensive tg that are dacianns ever does is o to war and they didn't want to do that again and they wanted to make sure or decrease the possibility elise to save the americans, by not stealing their land so that was a line of 1763. and also there was something that people haveth and that is o enforce that line it and keep communists away from thebe indis
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and indians with the colonists and the british government anyway, made pivotal decisions in december of 1762 and that was the war is over, and they did for another two months of the war is over and what you need to do is get your country and you been fighting the wars overseas he won the war now you can send your troops home the british government decided 10000 soldiers in north america and basically peacekeeping troops. and the next slide, this is obviously a contemporary map, and this one was gone of the time in those red rectangles, you can download this for those people watching from home, library ofs congress, there area
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lot of versions of it and other places, the red rectangles represent the where the troops were placed, some were in new york but the bulk, art what i would call peace keeping troops, a human wall to keep the indians in the colonists apart. then how you pay for that, and the british parliament talked about the stamp act in 1765 in the sugar act the year before that in order to come up with the money to fund these 10000 troops. a lot of textbooks of you and i learned on, the stamp act was to pay off ae big death of the
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british government and run up during the french and indian war less untrue and if you read this, they were paying off all of their expenses it was future expenses, of maintaining these troops and peace between the colonists and the indians. so the line in the rhetoric british decided to build this e-mail and to make the colonists pay for it and that again, was a stamp act and the sugar act, it's a real symptom that we all the taxation without representation might not have it if the indians cannot be there for were irrelevant as they used to be thought. so the native americans had a huge impact in which you gotta
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start with is that printed indian for because the american armies were and that the american colonists were trading with the enemy and the french runs may be, 84 other areas in the white colonists would during all source of things they were infuriated british parliament during the french and indian war and the french, the french and indian floor, they couldn't do anything about these things because britain really cannot win the war without the british on the ground to do the bulk of the fighting so there's this real tension in london where they're getting format in formatting colonists but that anger cannott be really good to
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go to peace the to be depressed but as soon as they do be different, but now they were mad about something else and they said we will draw a line and it would be paid for by you inform the stamp act in the sugar act. i would maybe go so far as to say well the indians in the stamp act and powerfully influenced by a group not in the conduct called the american revolution. >> and when you say that all of the sugar islands had synchronicity like atlanta, so the confident in seeing god connection with these actions lingering obviously in usually
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important and of course, the reaction to the communist, they were fighting as you said, and they probably would get something they felt they would be able to get something so they for this betrayal. [inaudible]. and is something they were doing and really had a part of it and i do think that in some ways, and we use this language, and what we are going through, it really does read in a way that does going on with the issues and the political boomers that you see happening in the 18th century, and reads so distance
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in the past so speaking about and thinking of the place of his hidden history, want to talk a little bit about the place of african-americans within this realm, there's not a lot of kind of discussion on the place obviously a black history, the history of employment on the founding america off course. during this discussion, you cannot when a don't pretty and i want you to talk about this other, the war, the black ameris presidents within.
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[inaudible]. that this is what we are talking about the 26 and this presence of black people and is incredibly important so please tell us more.he >> 1126, and the people watching, i do tend to say that there were 26 colonies and right now with otherworldly 13, there were 13 number of bells, britain unknown had 26 colonies in america in 1776 and several in canada counting printed words in nova scotia and other areas and the real jewels the british always on the ones i mentioned ines those were the sugar islans in the caribbean's and especially c barbados, jamaica d we want to talk about tobacco in
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virginia because i was number one crop growing in north america and of course i was going largely by enslaved people in north america and not the number one crop supported by the colonies, sugarcane was. and they make from and in north america before before they had steel and big industries, the turning of the molasses into rum from sugarcane raised by slaves in the caribbean and it is a reminder that estate was built on slavery people know that and massachusetts was bill in slavery as well and you have written about it in your book.
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>> yes june 15 of 2022. >> issues you just how the new yorkers are on slavery and from virginia on a really, are dependent not only on the labor of the enslaved people but on the labor of enslaved people in the caribbean and it also there is, will half of the fish in new england, goes to the country because of eating meat on fridays and what an amazing return that feeds the enslaved people in the caribbean's. and we could start but we can't name a colony where enslaved people were not significant. even the 13 state, but even
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vermont down to the caribbean's so economically, i think they have become a hugely significant, late in the origins of the revolution but it is a reminder to me that we've got to talk about this decision, the sudden decision somebody may just one day, you can't answer and if youan start asking if why did ace decide to rebel, nobody going in the room rather because of the relationship and trying into change things in the territory aspect of that and the territory, trade and smuggling the molasses up from haiti and cuba and so forth and it gets boring click, treasury notes but
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before well in all of his cases, it is parliament that was change in all of the colonists, only want is sugarcane and then want to go back to the way things were and so to me, one of the great questions is what happened around 1774, in 1775, always the first, at about what happened in that year during that year, and she agreed that a lot of this is going into 1775,5, as well in te colonists, i'm just wanting to go back to go to barbra streisand quote, the way we work, and this was to separate and these are different things and what makes them want this is the independence that i say in new york and, the greatest thing
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was the collection of the first battle. [inaudible]. but is also the final prep for independence. the boston massacre happened but that was have a one-off and only five people were killed without washington, ten peoplee were killed and many more in home soe this population of may want sugar patties and sugar and these kind of rational calculations about how we can get back these good times we had in 1762. they wanted to get back to the good old ways running a separate nation of and so that raises the question of what is the other version of the battle and i
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would say the answer to that is the emancipation proclamation in dunmore was the last governor of virginia and in 1775, he was massively outnumbered, there are a few whites in virginia who work going to the ground but the vast majority of the free people in virginia, where supporting the independence the bully had he got there yet but they had the parliament is trying to impose. he is outnumbered malloy's have to be because 80 percent of virginia or enslaved and is important to know that the demography of that general more of enslaved and south carolina is you know, and the black majority init the time and we kw
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economically, african americans owere important because of this happening in dunmore in november of 1775, and i get to this seven years before they emancipation proclamationat it, november of 1775, dunmore is still outnumbered. and with the emancipation problem proclamation a, and with their arms and the majority were governor dunmore didn't have any children but also a lot of men were ready and something like 820 of thehe first two months.
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and there are a lot of differences but there also a lot of similarities as well of the emancipation proclamation and yet, dunmore himself, he could write a book and discover the slavery was horrible and he slaves himself and so this was not an gesture on his part, it was a real measure, emancipation proclamation and that's how we got to be was because he wanted to do it all involved long but he has to do because there is a war and when dunmore issued his emancipation proclamation, it was because he needed labor but the big thinge that i would qualify about that is the declaration of independence, you have excited domestic's direction, the british had had
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the slaves against us but the big thing that i want to do is the national archives where the declaration of independence is there today and seen by millions of people every year not want to collect the declaration of independence on this one point, because it was not the british who had the slaves, he was if you look at the chronological enslaved, the british because emancipation flaw in the proclamation of 1875, and it was in 74, in virginia, they started this gap was opening up between the white minority and white patriot majority and in the gap between those two factions, our whites, there ison opportunity r us and then james medicine in
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the constitution and in the government, noted a meeting him in the fall of 1774, and in 1775, and all offended down the waterfront from williamsburg and up today and enslaved people organizing and getting ready for the british. .. o e placed the race card and he said that if you touch a hair my head, i will declare this to the slaves and introduce the town of williamsburg to ashes. some areas april of 1875, not november, but is threatening to >> and knocked on the door the
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governor's palace and said okay man put us to work. he promised us freedom we will fight like demons on your side because you want to be free. he turned them away and said if you come back but the people kept coming. and then they also kept coming and then eventually and then to issue the emancipation proclamation. but then to interpret this and not having the slaves with the
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daggers or the throats or the hands of our slaves. with the british empire. it went from that to jumping off the cliff and declaring. independence. >> and with that declaration of independence. but then to focus on this idea of the life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness but then it became popularized by
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black thinkers and the thoughts. >> and with the congregational site but before that. that they refer to them as the black soldier. and then congress issued the declaration of independence. and that is it is the real sense that the declaration of independence failed.
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and its initial goal. and then by the end of the summer of 1776. that is the real reason congress finally got its act together that they talked about from other places as well. and then they finally declare independence in july 1776 but to be clear they did that for france to come c over to their side. they had an army but not much gunpowder and basically discovered in conversation and then if we w can declare things fast enough then maybe they would not be fighting our battles for us.
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so then in july of 1776 but then july 4th we like to celebrate that because the act of declaring independence on july 2nd that is significant but not in the american waters. >> so that immediate goal was a failure but that this truth is self-evident that all men are created equal that most of the declaration they passover that. and found that justification
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and then it is something completely different from what it means today it was a strategic move. but with the continental army that they had done something that nobody else had done before that all men are created equal but then said the majority of people prefers the now iconic place and then the majority people who quoted that between 1776 when jefferson wrote it —- wrote it they were majority abolitionist and black as well k as white.
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they made the declaration of independence what it is today. is no longer thought of it is a universal declaration of human rights and then with the human rights activist to say the i same thing to turn it into the document that it is now. >> i am intrigued and i don't want to jump over too many but i do know and when you open the book that they dropped
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this knowledge but it is kind of like george washington how does that come out of that quick. >> but in that first year of the war a great manager having experience managing great numbers of people. so as a great manager in terms of getting the few supplies out but in general but in my opinion but not all historians agree, terrible, because she was stuck from taking the initiative and being aggressive that we could share
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briefly but those other than washington had figured out. but that is the very first use by anyone anywhere. >> and then let me come back to it. but then it captured the hell actually and that was a victory in those days but it cause 50 percent casualties and then commandedsu the troops to say afterwords because yes
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we want but what that the percent tax services and 1775 by the guy he will be commander-in-chief says it is unwinnable. and others that became the commander in chief and arrived at the same conclusion that all americans have to do with a lot more than gunpowder. but here isrg my point that if everybody understood if
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basically they would just fall on the football and don't become aggressive and they just cannot stand that. he had to be doing something but then to be in the boston area. and with the occupation so then on the left but at the time it was pretty much an island. and then to look south of that. and washington did a great job
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on 1776. but that is famous for chasing the british out but that's what washington used to describe and then way talk about his disappointment because he didn't want to walk away from a fight he wanted to fight them. that threatens boston so they tried to take it back from the american troops and while they are doing the american troops moved to her left and in cambridge with the undergraduate school they had troops over there way across
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the river the same of washington's d-day. and of washington himself. this is just how impregnable. and how there are barricades and house to house streetfighting that even he pretty much admitted to carry out an aggressive plan and that was a disaster for his side. and the fact that he kept making then you see manhattan island in 1776 the british capture on september 15 and
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then they turned into syracuse new york. that he never did. because had he gotten his druthers said he would make the plans and i think he was sincere but he always found a reason to cancel them at the last minute. because then had they a done the disastrous assault and that word hurt thehe american cause and then to start off the war with the general and he became a great general sometimes the most effective thing for a
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general to do is nothing. it's a big contradiction or was it self-restraint? >> and it is so compelling to think about a lot of times the american revolution is portrayed but then that all thehe americans have to do with the revolution. >> and then you have monday morning quarterbacks they say okay think it is over with quickly. and that is part of that mentality and then to quote
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another slaveholder. and nobody likes to be called a coward. but that to me is the real strength that did not allow people to govern the then ready to go into boston he didn't do that but he learned his lesson to his great credit. >> coming back to the incredible contributions during the american revolution of course that you really talk
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about during this time with this conflict that would begin that there are groups of women that are being killed. so what about the women in this narrative? with the military history as well. >> yes. and as you know and then you have to look out for theab article. and with thehe amazing contribution that they made
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and i will just mention one thing to start because it was stunning to me the army if you're that kind of thinker to be that while in the army that it persuades me to save lives in the revolutionary war because those on the american side that got shot and died arwas about 7000 that like all the wars through world war ii that those are the big numbers and after george washington have qualified and not the women and then everybody get
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smallpox in 1777 and then that is spread by a white so then you are saving lives. so to start with you have huge significant. so now's a great time to talk about it on september 15 into the following november and that was for washington when they cross over into new york but today there was a man
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named corbin working that i can and was struck down by enemy fire. so his wife hannah took over and ran that for him mentioned that starting a new army because of the injuries and she got a pension but there are also a lot so there are these women who would file atpension applications that they were described with this application. and with those benefits now
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that they do that as well. >> it is so conflicted in such compelling stuff. and the narratives that come out from everyday lives and with this sprawling history of this moment that what we know is reallykn compelling. but we do have an audience question. and we have a request so can you give us some insight? >> yes. if you look at these images you can take us back to the second image because it's really important to say there is no march to independence
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and then to march and lockstep because the things the british were doing at different times and then new york do not even come along in time to declare dependence on july 2nd it wasn't 13 / zero is 12 / zero. they did come along in time eventually. so if you want to know the stragglers yes they were but on the other hand there were a few things the british did that were truly unifying ask and one of those that it affected all of the colonists. it was seen as an establishment in québec and i have to say from my
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perspective to be willing to allow in c québec at that time catholics cannot even vote in their mother country but it did give them the right to tax themselves to pay for the church. added the 26 colony they had to pay for that church taxes and the established church is the georgian church that that big chore that most of the colonists in canada was the catholic church and the british government tolerated isthat allow them but that infuriated the puritans of new england. doesn't mean sexual.
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t back purified of any catholic messages. there were big it up against the catholics so no system would be tolerated. and then to let this tiny percentage of the québec population so that the king and the parliament decided so that is fair and democratic system because as jefferson said but what really unified the colonists is that it took all of the land basically west of the ohio river and gave it to québec and you cannot have anybody in virginia
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jefferson, washington, franklin patrick henry, and those are all speculators. >> but now this is the state of ohio that really cuts the legs off the next speculators so that is certainly a factor. >> we are getting closer to thee end. i went to open it up for you to have any closing thoughts or what you come down in the debate? >> let's do that one. >> maybe itt is the second to last slide?
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but this encompasses so it is an aerial and the top when is a drawing. but they were both reflecting on something that was on the american side that they almost lost it early on and the reason they did poorly is because you spot the british in the open theater and people said congratulations on ruining. they said no no no. he said i didn't have time. he said i deliberately did not cross the river and they were
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cowards and had across the river they would run away some enforcement and to fight so i backed him up against the river. >> because here is another doctor photo and you see that green circle at the bottom? and then north of that is the river and it is actually 5 miles away. everybody makes it seem like the river is right behind them at the line but that is the myth that we need to penetrate.
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but then as they would say today. >> that is so fantastic.w i love how you make these types of questions, life. thank you so much. this book is a compelling read. i cannot put it down. i highly encourage everyone to get the bucket is wonderful. thank you so much thank you for this moment in history. it still so important in the way that it is engaging. >> i appreciate you talking to me about it. thank you
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>> that presidents voice at home and it has a marvelous
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addition of the german shepherd team my husband and his family had a series of german shepherds all named king and he had a black line when he was a little boy. and he was so surprised when he saw this. was it just yesterday when it was unveiled had no idea it would be done this year but they had the white house last year with dozens of socks in the windows and in the yard


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