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tv   After Words Bill Bratton The Profession - A Memoir of Community Race...  CSPAN  December 27, 2021 8:00pm-9:01pm EST

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saturday history to date documents story and on sundays book tv brings you the latest and nonfiction books and authors funding for cspan2 comes from these television companies and more including charter communications. >> broadbent is event that's what charter invested billions in infrastructure, upgrading technology empowering opportunity in communities big and small. charter is connecting us. >> charter communications along with these television companies support cspan2 as a public service. now on book tvs after words programs former new york city police department commissioner discusses his leadership in law enforcement over three decades authors thought on policing america he's interviewed by charles ramsey former philadelphia police commissioner chief of the d.c.
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police department. >> how are you? >> i am a great checker to be talking with you. here.same let me start by saying i read your bookor and i thoroughly enjoyed it. it really was a very good read. i am so glad you wrote it. i do have a first question. the book really chronicles your entire career which obviously it was a tremendous career that you have had spanned with the five decades. you chose to really start chapter one with december 20 officers ramose and lou, why did you choose that event to really start this book? >> for several reasons. one, it was one of the most significant and unfortunately horrific events in that 50 year career. when you listen to officers at one time thinking that still
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an exception there was such a tragedy coming five days before christmas. secondly it was unfortunately reflective of what was going on and eventually accelerator of the next several years the breakdown of trust between police and so many communities the anger directed towards the police anger at the other officers. it seemed to be an appropriate place to start and help from the conversation. the third reason was ironically it took me back to almost 50 years when i began my career in 1970 in boston as a young cop boston police officer as i was coming into the business two years later his brother a boston detective was murdered.
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i became the first boston police metal. i had cut activities that double death back then that was a time the anger between police and community in the black communityin was so difficult it was resulting in tremendous violence between the two. that kind of took me back 50 years. i decided to stop they are in frame conversation how do we get there? that's what i tried to do with the book to explain this point in our country's history. >> you do cover your early career you also cover yourer childhood. [laughter] born in massachusetts, working class family, dad holding two jobs. nobody in your family was a police officer. you said in your book you've always come as long as you can
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rimmer wanted to be a police officer. that is a cute story your mother did and think you're so cute at the time you're ready year end half old he ventured out into the street to try to direct traffic. [inaudible] >> i do note to correct my mother that's a story she told i will stick with it. [laughter] >> talk a little bit about how you got hooked on policing? a lot of the seven incidents occurred in family or whatever seems you knew very young age what you wanted to do. >> growing up in the 50s you remember the 50s i'm so glad i had the 50s as a childhood experience it is so different than what kids go through today. it's coming into itsat own the television show was a bad error soad many police dragnet, one adam 12, and the television event era really betrayeda the police in a
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positive light and so far a kid of eight, nine, ten, 11 years old i was very influential. simultaneous that is an avid leader throughout my life. and in the library building was also the local police station. check out a book meet children's book of new york state police of the 1950s and 60s. i would be there to watch the march of the station house two by two comic in the back of the paddy wagon to be delivered to milwaukee. veryry few cars in that era. the influence back it was a very positive one very different than what kids watch on tv in the movies today. this probably more bad stories about cops and what we watched today. >> there is no question about
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that. let's fast-forward a little bit. you come back from vietnam and in october you had an opportunityan to join the police department which is what you did. talk a little bit and give the readers just a sense of what bostonik was like in 1970 and just as importantly what the police department was like 1970. >> the vietnam military experience, i joined turning you agreed to spend one extra year end in return for that they would guarantee what assignment you could get into i wanted to be a military policeman. however, unbeknownst to me military police at that time also century dog handlers. i thought i spent three years
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walking behind a dog. [laughter] my policing career began working with century dogs. expanding interestingly enough to fill a union contract here and i both wrestle with the unions the rest of our career. there were two officers cars until i benefited boston hired a couple hundred try to staff the scars. it was called a profession it did not have anye of the hallmarks of the profession and had no knowledge, no research, very few college education including police leadership. use of force was very frequently meted out.
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corruption was not on the scale of what we know of in new york but it was there. the race issue was there also the department was almost all white 55 blacks on a force of 2800 year old a ton coming of the civil rights era boston was the most segregated city in america really my first ten years on the job i spent about five of those years in the midst of the bussing desegregation in housing desegregation battles in boston they were literally all battles. >> that was an interesting read, your time in boston. i know you started your career in boston. he mentioned a lot of people you found to be influential. certainly the outside chief
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that came in really began to shake things up in the boston police department. talk about him for a moment and also whether or not he really played a role of influencing you later in l life. some of the things he was doing for. >> the gentleman you are referring to is bob, now deceased. he was brought in as an outsider mayor kevin white had no confidence that leadership of the boston police department would change what itit felt needed to be changed. he did the unheard-of he brought in an outsider. he was at that time the superintendent of st. louis county the area of the country. he came in a 6-foot two or 6-foot three of the largely irish police department. he had an afro if you can believe it they had
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three-piece suits and ties, the police commissioners tie wasn't old buick electra that was driven by a uniform traffic officer with his white hats. they got rid of that they had a baby blue dodge with a dark blue vinyl roof. there are several things that inspiration but we ended up eventually being pushed out of office that has happened to be a couple of times. he profoundly changed the boston police department and created opportunities for younger officers such as myself to take exams are put together literally within five
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years passed aside he also was intending long after he was gone the leadership of the boston police department was college educated would've had a broad breath of experiences setting for commercial exams. if you think about the successions of police commissioners in boston was paul evans, billy evans was a clerk workingle for me, kathy o'toole. most of the leadership of the '90s and into the 21st century the changes was made in the 70s. as a role model for mee in the sense you've emulated that in philadelphia and d.c. the timing you were there the change long after we were gone. maybe that's a the case in new
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york to a lesser extent in boston. certainly the case in los angeles where my successors were two of the most both of us on the opportunity to work with.. >> when you tell the story about how the commissioner gave you roll call and you committed the cardinal sin of actually asking a question. you go to roll call and they say are there any questions no hands go up. you raise your hand, you asked the question, tells a little bit about that for. >> as you know check you and i experience with outsiders coming into the department. how do you begin to win the trust of the cops you win it by being there, walking around, showing up at roll call showing up at all hours of the night. not to catch them but to basically listen to them and make themselves available. he made a point of getting into every stationhouse and
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introduce himself. at that time i'd become so disillusioned with policing i was looking to move to a suburban police department. where i was actually living at the time. he came in at roll call and i'd been hearing good things about him. desperate to get out of that particular district west of the dumping department of the department. not knowing anyone not having any connections i was stuck thereas. it was a tough place to work the bosses were awful there was no money if you will in those days are desperate for overtime. in just not happy. the changes he was making in the department as well as the idea of showing up at roll call i had the audacity with all of the leadership of the district standing behind him, looking at us raised my hand. as you know you raise your hand ask a question so he
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jumped at me, yes officer what is your question? i said how h do i get out of here. [laughter] and he was a little taken aback, how do you get out of your question when he said yes i been looking to transfer out of here. theree is scowls behind him as it is there a form they make out everybody around me started laughing because in that station if you have blue form transfer request it really went to the circular file. he was not aware ofe that. [laughter] but by happenstance a very good friend of mine of the anticorruption unit special investigation unit they were all pariahs to the rest of the organization. he was bite dissolution and he felt the department i should stay in the department with all the changes that were
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occurring. he had might name up the flagpole and had my name from that roll call. a few days later sgt dan green was behind the desk and said what are you doing here? i said reporting for duty sarge is a get out of even transfer to district 14. thank you sgt out the door i went. so my current the boston police department was changed because of that circumstance. if the corruption, the detective sighed, the gambling et cetera this was no secret. and nobody would do anything about it. on a saturday morning he transferred every one of them. saturday morning massacre sent the message loud and clear there was a new game in town. secondly, he brought in five whizid kids, five outside young
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men who were extraordinary, gary hayes the police executive research, bob wasserman who unite in a very well he's been a mentor to me for 40 some odd years i still think is when the smartest people who's ever been to thehe business. brought in mike gardner her totally transfer the civil service system to allow young people to get promoted they totally change the academy training. one of the people he brought in from thet outside was just passed away here in new york that carried the negotiation initiative i was trained for a period of time myself chuck was one of the young student interns was brought in. chuck and i actually shared a desk at police headquarters for a period of time. these young minds changed everything. they created 26 people assigned to planning resource where they had three. they a open it up to redo
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resident regulations were looking for volunteers. i loved the idea once again raise my hand, up i went. i'm sitting beside the chief of the department sitting beside the superintendent, the civilian, the whiz kids. i was a loving and i had i had a position. they hated him right from the beginning they hated him which is fascinating actually what he was doing was for the benefit of the department but they never saw itt that way. inin any event still in touch with his wife he passed away a couple of years ago one of my great joys and you will appreciates this, i was sworn in as police chief of los angeles i invited him for the ceremony. his wife says with the greatest joys of his life to see what he had created back in97 1975 the new york city police commissioner and now
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police chief of los angeles. the idea that dream he had in 75 and here was 40 years later was still sprouting branches marks the names you call it or thinking back on the days in boston it is absolutely incredible that much talent was assembled in one place at the same time. it's added very unusual in any police department that's existed elsewhere they unlock the doors risktakers to see those exams going those
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committees you and i are long-term friends with chuck back in the 70sy and expanded his predecessor had developed it in the. and even to this day now. >> let's fast-forward a little bit you leave boston something i didet not know until i read your book, was that you are the chief of the massachusetts bay transit authority. i knew about your new york city transit work. i didid not know from big city policing are i would call big
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city. talk about some of the challenges how are they if they want to beat back with the kingsley brothers back in the 60s. in boston i visited the superintendent and chief the highest ranking uniformed office within ten t years. but i moved ahead probably too fast. they weree some innocent enough mistakes i made. had had become back. they were not satisfied i was in a sense locked into a
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closet this transit system served. after thinking about it, i took the risk. from a 2800 person to a 68 person department that was widely disrespected and thought to be totally ineffective. >> probably were the best decisionsob i've made in my life it gave me so much intimacy with getting into a small organization trusting my bill to turn the organization around model as the outsider coming in. learn so much i was assisted greatly by bob wasserman also with the boston police department.
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bob at that time wasng consultinghi it was chief of operations for lee brown down in houston, texas lee was taken on the good old boys of the houston pd. i flew down to houston to meet with bob, work with bob and develop a plan of action redesigning police cars the image of the organization. my first major plan of action transit organization is the fact it covers so much territory versus a city municipality. i think i was in five different counties, i was in a literally 78 cities and towns we were policing with 68 cops. we had subways, we had commuter rail, we had trolleys and i had a lot of fun. i brought a couple people on board, al sweeney we go back to first grade.
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and once again many police department site planning a wedding something old, something new i had new ideas, something borrowed is borrowed from previous experience and something blue will police department isin blue. in the excitement that cannot be matched coming into a new organization and really just getting to stir it up was just thatat excitement of building a super bowl team. that crime down we've got the phenomenal equipment to work with. based on that success in three years later governor mike to kosice that massachusetts governor asked me too come in and take over the metropolitan district commission police
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that because i state organization that placed much of massachusetts reservoirs and many of its highways. it was also scandal plagued. the captain of the organization haven't stealing exams and my predecessor was serving time in state prison. the organization i was going she was incredibly lowow now. i was able to work with the unions who are desperate to change the reputations of the organization. the one thing humans share it with management they are very concerned about the reputation. they fight very hard for their members they canne be pains in the neck as we know. often times we focus on administration discipline they want the departments have a good reputation because it benefits them. was a growth experience 68 cops, once again a turnaround.
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and then the second transit opportunity came along. that was the transit police of new york city. 3800 officers at that time i think transports the eighth or ninth in america for the transit department policing the subways in new york city. george kelling, we all know broken windows frames in front of mentor going back to the 80s with wasserman who first introduced me. it's a chain of relationships they're all friends, advisors. washing and kelling were also consulting and you're sitting there having incredible problems with the homeless' wealth serious crimes remember 1990 with crime in the history of our country. the pitch they made to me about the eighth or ninth largest police department in new york city i had my eye on the prize for so s many years.
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come on down, who knows if you do a good job there you might get noticed and maybe police commissioner as far-fetched as that sounds a kid from boston running six and a person department. i was actively looking at the potential that was in my younger days. continue work the same thing dell solution the department is incredibly ineffective. by insert outside advisors. i think you know and we had a phenomenal turnaround. the character that was so influential and policing in reducing crime and systems was jack maple. late great jack maple transit police to check lieutenant was also the smartest people i've ever met on how to deal with
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crime he put academics to shame and be delighted in doingli it. jack was in his double-breasted suits, bowties and two-tone shoes, jack was a fine great believer and napping crime putting the darts up and jack was doing the same thing. two very different environment this 456 stations in new york city. at any given time is train cars through 4000 bottles the transfer experience is probably my most satisfying. transit in new york was separate from the city police with 25000 they were a dumping ground in the sense so we do
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police officers really wordy work? i work in transit. we made them the marine corps. into traffickers department nationally credits and in the union when they talk about good relations with unions, when we received national accreditation in santa monica, california at the union pay for the whole 60 person team to go to california for the award ceremony. can you imagine that? they felt so proud about the idea they had become accredited and were now getting ay reputation as the marine corps of new york city police department. it also allowed me too big department in new york city meets manhattan. the rest of it is burbs in manhattan is where you make it. for some people take it
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depending if it's on the lawful side of the criminal side. let's look at new york city police department which at that time is under the control of lee brown. once again being advised. there laying the groundwork to potentially and went off broadway transit production as luckck would have a couple years later it happened. >> let's talk about your first tour of duty in new york as new york city police commissioner obviously padded chains or boston police commissioner. first time around new york city the largest department in the united states. i don't know what stream was a return number 94, i don't think it was up to 40000 yet. >> and 95 giuliani was of the previous mayor's that we went
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up to 38000. when he left and 96, by 99 was the addition from cops from the cops program. after 41000 for a while. the note back down route 33 -- 34000 once again. >> once believable thegr complexities of an organization like that. >> how do you manage something like that? talk about the challenges of managing something that large as the new york city police department? the toughest management job i had 68 police department. the intimacy you go to persons not everything i didn't have a staff i didn't have captains i have lieutenants and sergeants. i had a corporation counsel for my law issues. it all came into the office is like being a district commander precinct commander
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nypd in some respects people with laugh at you the talent pool in that organization and almost 1000 captains above the organization. twenty-six deputy commission with phenomenal expertise in legal matters, technical matters. i did not have to go far to get a question answered, just pick up a phone. when you called, the nicommission are called they jumped the answers were like that. in the transitid police i don't really that might be answered. the beauty of it is you can surround yourself with such incredible talents. i had an extraordinary super bowlid team. known to us proceeded you in philadelphia and miami. legendary patch of characters joined all i had was first press commissioner everybody knows jon certainly.
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i reached three times he was deputy commission for information to follow route ability. in 2002 and brought him back nypd in 2014. must've cost them a fortune. take $200,000 a year job. also had once again civilians and brought in from the outside. the first time i had others the my second go around i was 14 i'm jumping ahead a little on you. it links back to 94. unique meet some incredibly talented people you're fortunate enough to work with them. 2014 have the opportunity and everybody wanted in.
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everyone wanted him to come in. i had friends, colleagues over the years knocking on the door, they all wanted the last hurrah. i got them all of the door. i had my executive staff meeting maple had passed on by that time. i had the super bowl team and with that talent i was the captain of the ship but boy i had a lot of people and would not have got anywhere without all the going the same direction. >> the first was a commissioner of new york. the system that revolutionized americandi policing. >> pure statistics. >> talk about that would you? and the roles that you, jack and others played. did you really think he was
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going to have the kind of impact that it eventually did haved in terms of crime reduction in national recognition? >> this i go into great detail on in the book. it came to be created, how it came to be named. the origin of was in the 70s which maps i have a clerk put on the map blue colored dots from different tribes very quickly the cops of the rollcall would see these patterns developing. students about my ibm typewriter there do forms indicating and it was really the use of using it on crime
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basis. i met jack maple doing the same thing in transit. transit was a very different typerw of system. transit you entered identify the street address. every caller so it officer reports a crime he reports number 36 or number 43. maps of the whole system like i used to have in boston. with that kindred spirit but what we also understood was the time we saw it. that era people believed we really work gathering crime information o the fbi gathers once a year. when i was sitting up a restaurant watering hole i
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guess you'd call it doodling on a napkin. when he comes up with four elements of the foundation when timely gather up information is fast as you can, accurate information. what's happening and who is doing it. really effective tactics what's going to work as a going to head of the precinct is a require headquarters task force is a of the fbi? if you think about its medicine.
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tell me about a colleague very skilled with respect to the city. starting with these four elements create a system within the nypd they gather the precinct commanders they put the maps up on the wall and be expected to talk abouthe patent 34, patton 46 what are doing about it? comes from the fact back in those days we have those long sheets you're probably too young to remember. computer sheets. each computer program had an
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eight letter name. and in the middle of a snowstorm one night some of the cops developed quickly come up with the name so they could create when they are in a hurry to get out of the station before the snow started coming down. they come up with computer statistics tell the system was one little piece of history talk about in the book. it didn't revolutionize policing as you note. some departments of how to use it, some don't. it is the while that could drive and push it along. it was so successful on police department the kennedy school of government award. in 1996 was a program to be
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done in 1994 the innovations in government award for the most innovative system that has been developed in that period of time. his team were allowed to receive it. even now, anybody in new york city would think they run out of town on the rail. the systems, algorithms, artificial intelligence so a phenomenal amount of tools. something a project associated with her correction should be proud of it. and i think in a lot of ways the >> of the real legacy because you will forever be associated. there aren't many police meters that i've had that kind of influence in our profession and you are one of them. >> satisfaction you or i buy a
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contemporary standard is a lot of credit goes to ust individually. but as you know you might have an idea about the case of comstock it's a huge orchestra behind me. together those individual incidents create passivity. it's the wonder of it you get everybody working together the source of the giuliani breakup i have is about that. you'll either not want to for political purposes share the credit with nypd who are really developing the atmosphere the umbrella. were developed by the talent of the nypd. but for political purposes get reelected to mayor you really felt unjustifiably credit was
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shared would not help in this reelection. it just caused us to eventually start butting heads. once again i got bounced out of a job. >> one of your strong suits though it's not just from this conversation with the conversations we have had as long as we have known one another you do build strong teams. he recognized talent but that talent where it do the most good and give people a chance to really show what they can do. again i think your early experience. [inaudible] it's funny when you look back on a career how those things at a time you appreciated bijou not fully understand the significance until later on
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let's move forward we are pressed for time. the first time all came to a head with a magazine article in the picture in "time" magazine. i've got tohe ask if you had it to do over which you have taken that picture? >> you better believe it. [laughter] time magazine has been around what, 100 years? in the world of millions of people is 5200 people who have their picture on the cover of "time" magazine and i am one of them. i am on that cover because i am telling the story of the 30,000 cops delivering that reduction. as already being pushed out the door at death by 1000 cuts. that was mike's one song. [laughter] he eventually made the cover a
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few times. >> god bless you. >> denial great and might trenchcoat under the brooklyn bridge? >> a great photo no question aboutt that. i have gone through that, you feel like you have more in you to give and yet you are on the sidelines. all kinds of things arere happening. but you've got an opportunity los angeles lapd. i mean the third largest department in the united states. i do not think there is any other than new york that people have seen more in movies, tv and so forth. in the long career you mentioned dragnet and those tv programs they were la-based. l.a. was going through a crisis. there under a consent decree
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in fact start is one of the monitors was appointed as police chief. now your predecessor fought the consent decree. you embrace the dissent decree, why? >> is an. example sometimes you need an outsider he was an insider. so my predecessor was a very prideful individual but had extraordinary pride despite all of his flaws. he would not accept criticism because i believe he felt it was criticism of him. he was never going to accept it. fought it tooth and nail. the mayor at that time did not understand the necessity to keep the government from taking over. was told you will not be
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reelected mayor and he said i have to do it. he did and they were right he did not get reelected largely for the fact despite my own successs coming in typically the african-american which was very, veryn influential 10% of the population but politically extraordinarily influential cost him the election. that is a type of leader who gave up himself for the greater cause. and i would like to think some likely satisfaction he was proven right that he achieved what he wanted to achieve. the department and most importantly improve race relations between that department and the black community. i worked a lot of departments produce in the history of
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policing. that department was at war with its community for years. at war that i'd never seen anything like it i came out of a veryof experienced in the 70s. it was a different kettle of fish altogether. >> one of the things i found very interesting when it was reading the book was a chapter you had about building relationships with the black community in a couple people in particular you pointed out. it of course you made a living suing the department and made a partner and helped. >> you know her very well. >> you also had a couple police officers jt thomas lieutenant booker. >> fred booker.
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he cut her moments of my own experience as a young cart coming up. you were able to build those relationships that have been strained for so long. talk a little bit about that and why is that so important the police departments really take that extra step to reach out and develop strong relationships. particular communities of color. the lack of trust, the accelerated of lack of trust george floyd's tragic death in so many other things going on the country at this time their systemic racism and somebody politics ideal very early on my experiences the importance of not judging people by first impressions i'm benefited by some great college courses i took things the federal
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government. guesstimate college education getting cops educated. i understood this idea understand the history of something. not just what's directly in front of you. i talk about this in the book. the expression i use all the time, but wife and i she left my wife and we loved her. she asked the audience on this show almost all black theater now. at one of the first meeting she stood up and said chief, we like you. i have your back. i have your back. and she had it for the seven
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years i c was there. a lot of people in l.a. trying to stick knives in it and she was covering my back. fred was the same thing he was a black lieutenant incredible experience growing up as a sharecropper thek. deep south in the midst of the 50s segregation issue. this crazy states in that time. as we are leaving in 2009 to go back east sweet alice we go and see her for the last time she gives us a hug. you know whyac we like you so much? i said no sweet alice why is that? you see us, you really see us. i talk about in the book the highest accolade i have ever received because i cared so much for that woman i care so much and understood the issue of race. if we all get it right is going to be the original sin is going to carry it forward.
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you are not going to solve the race issue in this country until we own up to it. you're not going to solve without the police. we are so involved you had a wonderful with the speech he gave think is icp or someplace. you talk about the thread the center thread if you will center thread you're trying to be with relations. i use that expression i use it at the funeral's a conversation in new york. at the funeral i use that term in the funeral went never going to solve the problem with the hatred. the hatred of red and blue, the hatred of blacks until we see each other. joe biden was in the audience
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had given previous and now present president biden. very frequently present vitamin e is the expression we see you he was really taken with it it is simplistic but says it all, doesn't it? we see each other. >> it is absently powerful. use a bit of a different phrase police e have to learn to see policing to the eyes of those being. policed as opposed to just seeing it through our lens a blue lens. >> using expression of looking in the mere was the way other people see us, wonderful. >> let's fast forward we are running out of time. i want to talk with some of the current issues one of the things i found interesting when i don't spend too much time on a second tour of nypd want to get into the defunding, and abolishing, the current issues facing us.
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one thing that really struck me in m your book was when you said your first time around new york was in a crisis of crimee. this time we are in a crisis of trust. >> i thought that was a very powerful and very reflective of the time we are in right now. talk a little bit about that when the context of the aftermath of george floyd defunding abolishing pulleys, qualified immunity you talk about all this the last chapter. >> nine principles of policing. the first one is the basic admission for which we to exist as to prevent crime and disorder 70s and 80s we spent all of our time responding to crime to not focus on prevention. you and i work community policing partnership with the committee where the problems the committee will drastically work together to share the t
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responsibility to do with them and prevent them from coming back. inle the '90s a much simpler time in a much more dangerous time similar to what we experience in a moment the police deal with crime and disorder. the changes we thought about in the '90s deal more effectively and valued more cops. we also begin to focus on the quality of life stuff. with things is going to immediatelyo kill you couple weeks later is you are going to die anyway. to understand crime and disorder the 911 changeded everything all the funding went to terrorism and then 2006 -- 2007 smart phones come along kyndell, google the world of social media exploded created so many new challenges for us, cybercrime, the ability of the expansion of video in human trafficking we
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have the technology of phones we have to worry about. policing of the 21st century is a nightmare in many respects we don't train our officers in these responsibilities. >> let's come forward to 2021. the error we are in now we do not have any responsibility any longer the issue is the defunding movement which i attacked sobu vigorously as we all do this idea the political # that's providing policy they're going to defend the police. i think there's a real appreciation what's going to be necessary to reoffending police. training cops for at least a year or six months before he put them on the street training the new tools the bias of training the de-escalation training takes time it takes many cities you want to pay money in the class
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and they want them in the street that's been the bane of our existence. maybe this time we can convince them if you want us to deal more effectively with emotional disorder, drug issues, homelessness, you are going to have to train us betters . i believe it's quite frankly going to fail once again to address those issues by creating new entities. the money is not going to be there wheat d police back in the 70s member of the cops being laid off in the 70s they'd decriminalized a lot of laws that we had to work with the same thing is going on in 2021 define the police. we have all this criminal justice reform driving us crazy see in philadelphia your home city to start doing any question for people to engage in publicti disorder. the ready to tell the person to move on.
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the challenges of the 21st century arey phenomenal. the good news coming out of this one the tragic death of floyd really caused him away show awakening with unprecedented in this country and around the world. we will sale that goes going forward. it is also causing a re-examination of what police do, why we do it can we continue to do it or should we be given to someone else? who like to get rid of a lot of it as you know. i'm willing to bet will end up partnering with others we can never totally give away we are going to still some responsibility we need to be refunded. like yourself a bit in this business for long time i remain optimistic even in the midst of this crises we are in this racial tension we are still dealing with this lack of trust in the '90s that trust restored we dealt with crime in my city overall crime
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is down 80% homicide 90% 2018. the overall country don't 40%. trust built up cops could do something about crime have to prove once again the 21st century crime in this time let's do something about race relationsth also. >> and bill, our time is winding t down. i just want to thank youhi for the opportunity to sit with you and have this discussion. andin again i have my copy to the profession. >> it will go everywhere. >> let me tell you something, this is a very, very good book. you not only talk about your career and the issues you are
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actually teaching a lot in this book. you go into the description of qualifying immunity and some of the other things. we find that very worthwhile. for anyone who isg interested in leadership they should read this book. it is written by one of the foremost leaders not only in policing, but in this country. it's been my honor to have spent time with you god bless take care. >> thank you so much. i need a signed copy. >> it is on the way. [laughter] >> after words is available as a podcast. to listen visit c-span.org/podcast work search c-span after words on your podcast app. watch this and all previous after words interviews at booktv.org. just click the after words button near the top of the page.
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>> cspanshop.org's online store relays collection of c-span products books, home to court, and. there's something for every c-span fan repurchase helps nonprofit operations shop now anytime at cspanshop.org. >> a new mobile video out from c-span, c-span noun download today. >> recorded conversations many of this conversations on c-span's new podcast presidential recordings brickwork season one focus on the presidency of lyndon johnson. you about the 1964 civil rights act of 1964 presidential campaign, the march on selma and the war in vietnam.
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not everyone knew they were being recorded. >> certainly johnson's secretaries new because they were tasked with transcribing many of those conversations. in fact they were the ones from each of the conversations were taped as johnson was signaled to them through an open door through an open office and there's brickwork to authors and blunt talk. >> i know the number of people assigned the day he died : :

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