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tv   Common Sense Society Conference Discussion on Education  CSPAN  February 2, 2022 6:37am-7:47am EST

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>> good morning. i am the vice president of education for common sense society. happy that you are all here. i would like you to please join me in welcoming the founder, president and ceo of common sense society, mr. marion smith. [applause] >> thank you and good morning to all of you. given the weather outside, i think it's a good day to be indoors. we got a wonderful program for you today. a bit about common sense society, we are just one little platoon committed to keeping the republic and saving civilization and leaving it better than we found it. we promote liberty prosperity and beauty, a culture that fosters human happiness.
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in the conference portion of today's event, we will have a panel first addressing the future of education. many of us share concerns that education in this country has focused too little on the essentials and too much on ideology and you will hear from individuals who are on the front lines of fixing that problem. our second panel will deal with capitalism. major institution of the united states in our free society, free enterprise, corporations and they maybe have become too little focused on the fundamentals of business and competition, voluntary exchange and perhaps to ideological as well. we will explore that topic in ways that fix that problem stop finally, following a short lunch, we will enjoy a conversation with dr. jordan peterson and that will be moderated by ignat solhenizten.i
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hope to see many of you this evening for our gala dinner where we were -- where we will award dr. jordan peterson a prize an award our courage award to rosa maria po freedom fighter in cubia. lastly, let me just thank all of our sponsors but in particular, mr. thomas peterfee and lynn wheat. for their support in all of our sponsors making this happen. i will turn it over to the chair of our first panel and common sense society's newest senior fellow, dr. john petee.
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over to you. [applause] >> thank you, thank you. good morning, it's a pleasure and an honor to be here with the common sense society and this panel. i will make a one or two sentence introduction of our free panelists and they will make remarks. you have a statement on each of them in the program. after they make their brief remarks, i will ask a few questions and we will turn it over to the audience to hear from you. since i am a mississippian and you never want one of us to speak, i have written my remarks to try to allow time for others. it is a pleasure to be here. we will start first with dr. pa
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no canela founder of the university of austin which was launched in november of last year. he was also the 24th president of saint johns college in annapolis. >> thank you. i have also scripted my remarks because i am greek and if i didn't write things down, greeks argue a lot and i would start arguing with myself. [laughter] just a few remarks about how i see the state of higher education today and what it has inspired us to undertake this project to start a you -- a new university which is an insane thing to do. what we think of as higher education in the west is rooted in a fundamentally greek understanding of human nature.
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since plato's academy and aristotle's lyceum, we have created institutions that are set slightly askew from the city. the purpose of which is to look critically upon the world, society and the individual. those who inhabit these institutions, whether we think of them as philosophers or scholars are tasked with asking questions and seeking answers. some of the questions, those that have qualities we can measure, are quantitative. others, those for which we try to judge what is better or worse, are qualitative. roughly speaking, these two strands give us the scientists and the humanities. these two ways of knowing the
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world form theartes liberale wheres a human might seek freedom. higher education is predicated upon the belief that man is rational, a creature capable of exercising powers in an analytical and clutter -- in critical fashion. the greeks knew well that men is not an exclusively rational creature. that he is rather a being composed of complex, competing elements. plato's image was that of reason as a charioteer, flying across the sky, being pulled by two wild horses, one representing our desire for glory, pulling us heavenward and the other
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representing the material passions, trying to drive the chariot into the earth. to know the world as best we can, we must persistently scrutinize ourselves n asoward coming to better understands,, dragging us from our steady course. thus, anything that inhibits self reflection is inimical to the purpose of the university. that is the pursuit of truth. yet we now live in the age of "i", an era of atomic individualism. we have moved from being seekers of meeting to makers of meaning. narratives buffeted one against another in an endless struggle
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for domination. the role of universities in this account is to ruin the sacred truths, smash orthodoxies so as to liberate the individual to pursue a sort of nebulous self-fulfillment. yet that is only one end of the spectrum. on the opposite pole, we find in this age, something akin to divine revelation. to enlighten few, a totalizing narrative has been unveiled. history is a sequence of injustices, the purpose of human striving is to ensure that the past is not the future. the endpoint of history is a state of universal equity. the function of universities is to quicken this process. on one extreme, we find that there is nothing that can be
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known, that everything is relative to the protean individual. the will to power is celebrated and the end of humanity is to transcend any and all limitations. at the other extreme, we have unveiled the cultic meaning of history. the exercise of power is always accompanied by domination and submission and is thus innately immoral. the highest pursuit is the singular pursuit of justice because we inhabit an exclusively flat, eminent and material universe, justice is defined as the leveling of all hierarchies in the quest for universal material well-being. the first premise, the valorization of desire leads to chaos and nihilism.
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the second premise leads to hotel or unitarianism -- two totalitarianism. this is committed to both these positions even though they are contradictory and oppositional. on the one hand, we find the untethered will and on the other, the individual will melt into the undifferentiated collective. this schizophrenia underlies most of the pathologies we find in higher education today. if we are to renew the purpose and promise of universities, we must navigate the cilla of relativism and the charybdis of ideology. we must create institutions where those seeking answers to the most important questions begin from a position of
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intellectual humility and are animated by the pursuit of truth. we must foster communities of conversation where ideas and opinions can be brought forth without fear so that all interlocutors can engage freely in the highest purpose of education which is to better understand one's self even as one comes to better understand the world. thank you. [applause] >> next, we will hear from adam kissel, a senior fellow at the cardinal institute of west virginia policy and the chairman of the west virginia professional charter school board. prior to this, he was deputy assistant secretary for higher education programs in the office of postsecondary education at
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the u.s. department of education. >> good morning, everyone and happy national school choice week in the united states. [applause] maybe i don't need to explain how education freedom is good. the vision is that every kid ins up with education that is best suited to that child, not a hard concept. west virginia in the year 2021 became the leader in school choice. i will tell you a little about that but first, i want to talk a little of y 2021 was such a banner year. some people call it the year of education freedom for the year of school choice. our argument will be that we are not just looking backwards but this is a biennium of school choice and maybe we will talk next year a get -- about a triennial of school choice. i will give some reasons why think we are in that mode in the
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united states. in 2020, about 600,000 students were taking advantage of school choice options in addition to all the students who were homeschooled which was about 5.4% of all students in the united states. in 2021, that number rose by a factor of four with an additional 1.6 million students being able to have school choice. there were 18 states in the united states that expanded programs for school choice or created new ones. with more than 18 programs. in west virginia, we started a new education accounting program and extended charter schools. we were a generation behind in charter schools. we still don't have any. there are some lawsuits but we are the leader in west virginia in school choice in educational
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savings accounts. that is better than a voucher. we have vouchers and you get 6000 per student per year to go to a private school for instance. in education savings count is an account for any age occasional expense whether it is right at school for music lessons were homeschooled. where ever you have an educational expense, you can do that. unlike other esa programs in the country which are not taken up by that many students because they are closely restricted, in west virginia, any public school student can leave the system and get $4500 per year for any educational expense. it's a fantastic program and other states are starting to think how they can copy west virginia. we have a long way to go in student achievement. we are somewhere around 45 out of 50 states.
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we have had 100 years to figure it had to educate our students. after 100 years, they don't have that much to show. school choice is valuable not just because every student is unique and needs the student -- the spirits best for that student but also because introducing competition into the market place improves schools that are traditional in addition to inspiring them to innovate which they would otherwise not have done. they probably still don't but at least there is an opportunity for competition to drive innovation and drive better outcomes for students in the traditional public system and the newer schools. the american federation for children has predicted recently that we will have another great year in 2022. our work continues, not only on the positive side that choice leads to innovation and new
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options get better but i think there are some reasons we are seeing, as a culture, parents in particular that parents will keep advocating for the education best for their children and they see what's wrong in a new way because of the pandemic hero. a lot of students are at home in ahrens are looking over their shoulders and seeing was really taught in school. parents are seeing something needs to change. there are a number of parent organizations out there with thousands of members. they have learned how to file requests and get transparency in the traditional school. they have doubled the number of homeschooling so there is 11.1% of all students in the united states homeschooled. 11% is an amazing number. here in florida, 50% of students are not in the traditional zoned
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public school they would normally be assigned to. half of all students in florida. something has changed in a dramatic way especially in the past year. it's not only because parents want their children to have a good education will step for one thing, if the parent is seeing your workplace has become work a fight and what has happened in the schools and work because of the people to get out of high school and college with those views, maybe i need to worry about my kids and what they are getting in the way of high school in grade school and kindergarten. we even see reports of pre-k infected by ideology. the fire will still be fueled on both sides.
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there will always be an outrage somewhere so some school board might fix itself but other school boards somewhere else will do something crazy and it will always be in the news. between the pandemic era, money in the system, parents caring about their kids and lots of attention to these issues, we will have an era of school choice. there will be more and more school choice and if you want to have a footnote on heracles, -- on pericles. the question comes up, can virtue be taught? if it could, you would see that the most virtuous people like heracles, the person who created
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democracy for athens were built democracy, he would train his own kids because if he wants his children to be virtuous and he is then he will give them the best choice. his children did not turn out so well. what you do to someone to get them that spark of inspiration, you want to be a good person and grow up to be a good citizen. it's more challenging than you think. i appreciated the previous comments talking about the goals for higher ed but since most people don't go to college, how do you get that to happen? do you have to make them a lifelong learner to get that spark of learning? in graduate school is we think about classic learning and the great ideas that inspire us to
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say what is the better life or the life i want. if you do that well, that's not what you get in traditional schools but it's what you could get in a classical school or some of the new school -- charter schools that are springing up. i want to leave you with the i want to leave you with a question, if virtue can be taught how do you do it? >> thank you. our next panelist is doctor david rhodes, professor of economics in st. louis and senior fellow of common sense society. i want to talk about what i think needs to happen to keep america its best chance to have a future, specifically the
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american civics project. the progressives have eliminated much civic education, deprecated much of what remains and introduced a connecting narrative that tears down rather than build up the kinds of citizens needed to sustain our free-market democracy and constitutional republic. we are living with mounting consequences of their success. can anything be done about this? resurrecting civic education of parents and grandparents failed. it failed as time when cultural inertia was more on our side. we new kind of civic education that makes the moral case for our way of life likes waiting free-market democracy is basically a highly evolved
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system of cooperation made sustainable by our constitutional republic. the essence of cooperation is as simple as it is powerful. cooperating, we make 26, our brains expect 20 but it is not. the extra 6 units of what makes it possible, we freely choose it. cooperation does not require coercion and does not work well under coercion but 6 units makes it possible to increase the amount per person which increases general prosperity. what about literature, history, science, rights regarding freedom, property and rule of law. what about mechanisms of government, the genius of enumerating and separating
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power, all these things are important and must be included in a revival of civic education but even if they are done perfectly, is still not enough. people are likely to retain a body of knowledge with conviction if they see how the pieces of that body of knowledge are tied together by a big idea. civic education of parents and grandparents failed because it lacked a big idea. i think the progressives have been so successful because they have such a big idea. the rise of the west and america is the story of increasing oppression of the week by the strong and in the latest wrinkle, the power needed to effectuate this
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outcome is so embedded in our institutions that we are largely unaware of it. a convenient position. any honest reading of history leads you to conclude this is mostly nonsense that resonates with our tribal genes and our discussed for injustice so it works especially with young people. we can keep trying to fix it but we can build a new one with our own big idea that so happens to be correct. the rise of the west and america is the story of ever more, effective cooperation catalyzed by a better market system filled with ever freer civics. jonathan jesus called
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cooperation the most powerful force on the planet and he is right. ideas don't get bigger than cooperation which provides an elegant, attractive, concept that ties the pieces together producing what could be called an elegance that impresses the mind in a deep way. the progressive threat emphasizes oppression dividing us into winners and losers sowing the seeds of suspicion. our thread stresses cooperation, common cause which sows faith in our fellow citizens. this is not what so many americans hunger for, what the country needed now more than ever before. our story begins with a simple form of cooperation, things get
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increasingly interesting is cooperation becomes catalyzed by the co-evolution of voluntary exchange over more sophisticated and complex markets. we will lay the story out along the timeline of history. what happened first is what is taught first which matches, with the youngest mind. civic education comes alive by couching it in a grand story in the rise of human cooperation. the compressed version at the high school level. it pertains to western civilization and another layer of content that pertains to each in select foreign countries.
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the goal is to provide a curriculum so exciting and well rooted in sheer common sense that parents demand it to be adopted. the american civics project will not double down on approaches that have already failed. it is different, fundamental, it teaches the miracle. it is a miracle, so early in their development that when they learned of progressivism, its aim is to pave the way for ruling us for putting us against each other. >> we make a few biographical statements and lead into the
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position. i conclude my services leading to the end 12 years of service dating to the bush administration made two career decisions last year. i proudly joined the faculty of mississippi value state university which is a historically black college in mississippi in the mississippi delta where so much american music in the civil rights movement came together. i chose the university, the dedication of educational affordability. second and more recently i became a common sense senior fellow because of commitment to free speech, free people and free markets. and because of its uncommon commitment to a moral good.
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to flip a phrase from shakespeare, i have come to praise beauty and the humanities, not to bury it. i must say when i look at the twentieth century i believe conservative intellectuals made an unconscious but damaging position in the second half of the twentieth century to narrow our interest in the humanities, to local science, government, civics, economics and history and philosophy within restricted range. even russell kirk could not arrest the reorientation of appetite. western art, western literature, music, dance, religious studies, languages ancient and modern were largely
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abandoned, it transcended -- were abandoned as well. if an american university driven by its liberal arts mission is rare a generation from now, there will be two causes. conservative intellectuals failed to save the teaching of western civilization because they allow themselves to be wrong from classical studies. the institutional leaders and funders will not intervene for what conservatives no longer value. progressive academics will lack the authority and respect to advocate for the liberal arts because what began as marxist rhetoric devolved into educational policy and the general public has a
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substantial distaste for ideology targeting shared heritage for removal. i ask each of you can the humanities be saved? we are not saving humanities in western civilization. that is frederick douglass as much as george washington. can the humanities be saved? if so how? >> i will start. you had me at shakespeare, your version of it. can the humanities be saved? that assumes they are lost and i'm not sure that is the case. beauty will save the world. we live in a world. we are turning instinctively, the humanities, to find
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something we are missing. universities have increasingly turned in the other direction. if the purpose of the university is job placement, we shouldn't have university. there's a more efficient way to put young people in jobs and make them go through four years of coursework and getting into debt to have their starting job. the purpose of university is additive. as young people are reaching their maturity we have an opportunity to turn them into critical thinkers in a complex way and those prepared to spend life seeking human flourishing. you can't do that without the humanities.
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life is not a quantitative, it is qualitative. institutionally, higher education is moving away from the humanities. we are not going to let it get far. we turn to higher education, the things that are highest in human experience. >> we have an international audience, primary and secondary, culture by culture. the powers of the mind, starts with this idea. in the ways of that.
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to reproduce what is already there. there secondary enculturation and the higher things, that forms the leader and the way we do things from your society. a different way that is just beyond the notions. there's something about the humanities that offers that. as we get people into adulthood, they are being introduced to literature and read shakespeare. there is something here, higher
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education, the first and second comment, the spark that is caught in the younger years is able to be maintained. there is something higher for me. >> if you look at the long sweep of history, it is undeniable for the first 99% of genus homo we lived in small groups and until recently, we are fundamentally a small species. our brains work in a small way. we trust each other very easily. the genius of the rise of the
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west and all the benefits we have now is a long story of how we were able to create new ideas in ever larger groups in which we can effectuate amazing gains from specialization spoken by adam smith and others. stretching the size of the groups by stretching hardwired pension for tribalism is the secret of our success. it took a long time, tremendous hard work. so the problem when you look at the humanities required to sustain a kind of idea that sustains a constitutional republic, these ideas are product of a long chain that is
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pretty subtle. one thing the left has done a good job of is reducing ability to cultivate the international discipline required to read complicated difficult texts. if you miss this opportunity to cultivate that thinking, what that means is generation after generation of people who can't grasp what was written about which our society is based. we have a nuts and bolts problem to have a chance to address whether we can resuscitate the humanities.
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>> to audience questions, we will let the gentleman ask the question. make the question a question rather than a statement. while he is locating that, i will ask another question. at every, and the battle is no longer between liberals and conservatives but between liberals and progressives in the latter group is winning. on a lot of campuses there's vocal opposition to the tradition of dissent, freedom of speech and other foundational educational values. how does this affect current
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and future students and what does it mean for society at large? >> a number of studies ask about campus culture, do they feel comfortable saying something outside the status quo. more students are saying they are afraid to speak up. that carries into the workplace and the rest of society. we want to be liked by our friends and everyone around us. college is supposed to -- that is not happening very much. would it be acceptable to commit violence against the speaker. >> back to audience.
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>> what lessons, what is being done in washington dc. every single one of them. it is not a coincidence. you ask a tough question. >> take a stab at that. in annapolis, maryland. the third oldest call, adhering to liberal arts curriculum.
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it is the students and faculty gather around tables. what allows the conversation to happen. feel free to talking about what is on our mind today confronting ideas that were important for human beings across time. what liberal arts education offers is the ability to transcend the experience. to look at big questions from a higher vantage point.
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and remind us we are all human. to interrogate our humanity. how do we do that? we have to be prompted by books, by art, the underlying principles of science, mathematics, to think about things that are greater then we are. that the fundamental freedom you experience from a liberal arts education. freedom from being ourselves in the iron cage of the moment we are in. an institution that allows that transcendence is fulfilling the purpose of higher education. >> follow-up question. i would be remiss in talking about the university of austin.
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the media, higher education media, great deal of criticism. faculty and donors, and respond to those who say it is ideological in a different direction. >> a grave error to create an institution in response to the asymmetry we see that simply waited at the other end. the problem for higher education is its narrowness of perspective. to create an institution that conservatives or right-wing is not a solution. it is an accelerant.
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an institution truly dedicated to higher things has to be as open as possible to all ideas in the fearless pursuit of truth. this is somewhat threatening to the system in higher education today. the emperor has no clothes. higher education has fundamentally lost its way. when you propose an institution that tries to course correct. a degree of blowback. we welcome that. as a mentor of mine said to me,
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if you can't be consequential without being controversial. has been critical of our institutions, to me is a sign that we are doing the right thing. thankfully most of the response was interesting and positive. >> questions from the audience. >> you made brilliant points of leveraging and cooperating. what are the practical tips of scaling at the university of austin. k-12, they can unlock these ideas and have exposure. what it takes to scale across institutions.
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>> to get around traditional education, producing teachers that are not saying the kinds of things we are saying on the stage. having alternative methods is an important way to do it, tens of thousands of teachers the old way, challenging a pretty large monster. having post prudential education and civic education like they already do, be already valuable and the jack miller center, will find hundreds of thousands of futures. the governor has devoted tens of millions to that kind of education for teachers. if teachers are better prepared students are better prepared
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leaving higher red to someone else at least at the k-12 level. an important role for getting around the system. >> i would say one of the problems we have is broadly a problem. this picks up on your comments. it is in the we have the wrong intellectualism but we have anti-intellectualism. it's a deeper problem, it produces a condition of intellectual and, young adults are pretty intellectually because of it. there's a pessimism from people
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who believe in the moral propriety of their vision of society. they have a plan if they have a plan everything works towards their plan. anything that could deviate from the plan is dangerous and something to be afraid of. it tends to breed anti-intellectualism. we need to get to the youngest possible age and impress upon them that the progress of our species has resulted from the flowering of intellectualism which is optimistic. intellectualism, this is why we aren't afraid to open the intellectual story. the best ideas as long as they get a chance to do it fairly. not only do we have optimism
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and confidence but humility. there are times when we are just wrong and that's not a problem or change your position. to the people who run to college is now, to them, bizarre but we've gotten too far away from cultivating honest intellectual pursuit. why did we evolve the intelligence we have? most of the things we ever did in our more primitive state involves solving problems. by solving a problem you know where you want to go to solve the problem. that is fine but not what it is. it doesn't started the end but at the beginning.
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it is difficult to in culture a to intellectualism. it will not happen on its own. they are born anti-intellectual. >> i would say to parents and donors, something about artificial ranging. what i would say is the most valuable institutions are at home in their community. the least viable are housed in place. that might go for think takes -- think tanks and other things. there is not another audience. i want to turn to charter schools.
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charter schools take away talented teachers and students and a large part of the tax base. charter school advocates say there an alternative to failing public schools. how charter schools work. not just their academic but vocational, do it quickly. >> in west virginia charter school as charter school, funding is based on keeping people around so you in theory have the same dollars per student who remain in the traditional public school. the money would follow students to ohio but different taxpayers was the argument that you are taking money from traditional public schools is not true.
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it is larger because you don't get 100%. in west virginia it is 90%. you are getting 110% of the money so you are getting more money. on the vocational side we have a president of community college in south charleston we have a nursing challenge, a public charter high school. it is a way to innovatively, you will still get a public education. innovations like that make charter schools more attractive.
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>> this is directed to panayiotis kanelos. you mentioned you were consciously steering away from going diametrically opposed. i was reminded of sullivan's law. a former editor of the "national review" and speechwriter for margaret thatcher. at some point, to paraphrase, any institution that is not explicitly conservative will become liberal. is that a concern of yours? >> i have been asked this question many times. what is the timeframe we are looking at.
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you are thinking of centuries, not decades. the idea is if you build an institution with solid foundation, the currents of politics we are facing today are ripples, not waves. in the past 50 years, in this ecosystem of american political culture things have trended in one direction. i don't think that's written in stone. if you adhere to the fundamental principles that should animate any university. opening corey, civil discourse, freedom of conscience and you embed those principles in the foundations of an institution
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that centuries from now the institutions may be operating in the way you hope it will operate. we are looking at a long time line. i give us 300 years before they tear down the statue of me. >> a question here. >> we all know that money drives everything. we are moving towards elections next year and the next year, two years out. federal funds are major driving force of higher education. what advice would you give to the upcoming congress would be the most important changes at the federal level to address these problems? what can they do?
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>> after the federal, through the better hypothesis. the best solutions on the money side, student loans again. tens of billions of dollars coming in from donors, alumni, and others. large universities that have been here for 300 years. if they are not getting below-market interest rate loans. >> the question that touches on this, i will give you the statistics.
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college tuition expenses increased 1200% since 1980. affordability, we won't have time to get into the university of boston, but the cost curve, until as educators and decision-makers, until we decide every dorm has amenities and we stop increasing the administrators versus teachers in the classroom we have a fundamental problem. a problem our european peers do not have. and other nations outside of europe. >> tuition escalation is an important issue. it is complicated.
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what most people don't understand is there are too few seats. institutions are competing for smaller market of students so how do you compete? offer more bells and whistles and amenities. who bears the cost? the students. every blade of grass is mode. every trip down the lazy river. every sushi roll at universities paid for by the students. we have to strip that away. our tuition will never be more than half of harvard's institution. when you do the spreadsheets it's not that hard to provide education. what do you need? a table, books and a few people sitting around. you don't need sushi.
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what you have to provide is a transformative experience. when institutions return to that, the other stuff will fade away. >> thank you. you have a question here? >> this is the opposite of the sullivan's law question. the challenge, anyone who espouses classical liberal values regardless of actual politics is branded a right-winger by their peers, most academics are terrified because of the peer-reviewed paradigm. the challenge is the only people willing to brave that stigma are the ones who will lean more right. how do you attract people who think of themselves as left of
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center to university where they are branded right-wingers. >> within a couple weeks of announcing we were founding this university we received 4000 inquiries to professors at other universities seeking jobs. [applause] >> those are just the ones that contacted us. there is a minor chord running to higher education of disaffected faculty who are not all on the right. who feel the institution of higher education is compromised. i'm not worried about attracting faculty. i'm not worried about attracting students. we've had greater interest from students.
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we are most concerned about creating an institution that lives up to the principles we espouse. that the greatest challenge. to do it in a world that is pushing against this principles every day. >> we have time for a last question. just looking for cues. bring back the common sense society. i mentioned this last night. in 1816, creating an auto pen, he says this is a quote. if a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization it expects what
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never was and will never be. this organization is saying reject ignorance. we want to be in a state of civilization, a state of knowledge and how beauty operates in our lives. i believe as much as anything that is why so many of people in this room are around this. some answers went into what divides us but we can't get to a place of shared value in higher education through suspicion and yet at the same time we have to dwell in the world of facts, stand against moral relativism. we need a great compromise, intellectually diverse group of people who want a strong, open,
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open-minded educational system. by -- one thing that gives you hope in the future of higher education. >> i will start. the gentleman over here asked what we can do and i education. the truth is things will move in a better direction whether anybody likes it or not. the name of the game is shifting in a big way. the value-added of higher education is drinking because we need people to do stuff. we need people with college degrees to do advanced stuff
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but not as high a ratio as we were pumping out. president obama said everybody should get a college education. anybody who was a professor at the time thought i don't know about that. doesn't sound like a good goal to shoot for. one of the things that will happen to higher education is it is going to suffer from this competition of the outside of higher education. the thing we have to resist is having that pressure on the outside produce a conservative rally behind castle walls mentality in higher education. what i have been trying to do is go through people who are leaders in higher education. if you're going to do what everybody else is doing you are going to die.
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just accept that you have 25% to 30% fewer institution of higher learning and understand you need to do something different. the heard is going over a cliff. >> the schools most of us know about our educating a small proportion of american students, something like 20 million college students in the united states. statistics show there is a large winnable middle. they have a nice life for themselves and their families are not trying to do what their colleges are doing. normal american families with normal american kids who want to get education.
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>> what gives me hope is no matter what we do to them, young people are kind of wonderful. the daughter or son, and if your niece, grandchild, still open book. still curious and eager to learn and so we can't suppress that part of human nature. need to be open to that. all of us in some format or other, that's the heart of the matter. nothing has changed even though institutionally we may have lost our way. >> thank you, panelists. [applause]
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>> live today on c-span the house is working on a bill that would provide aid to the semiconductor chip industry, for science and technology research to better compete with china. judicial nominations and on c-span treehouse panel meet at 10:30 eastern for a hearing on corporate price gouging during the covid 19 pandemic followed by discussion between russia and ukraine from the helsinki commission at 2:30 p.m. eastern. you can watch everything online on c-span.org or on the go with our c-span video apps. >> booktv every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books.

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