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tv   Robert Bryce A Question of Power  CSPAN  May 30, 2022 8:45pm-9:51pm EDT

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time. thank you. [applause] brexit weekends on cspan2 are an intellectual feast every saturday american history tv documents america's story and on sunday book tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for it cspan2 comes from these television companies and more including comcast. >> i think this is just a committee center? >> notes way more than that it comcast as part with 1000 committee centers to get wife filed so pete students are monk and fama's get the tools they need to be ready for anything. >> comcast along these television companies support cspan2 as a public service. ask the right thank you. i know it got great conversations going on out there. we want to get right into this next the panel which is going to be a really compelling one for you might remember a year ago a
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little over a year ago the winter of 2021 the texas a power outage that made the national news was such a disaster but this next panel is going to talk about avoiding a black future of u.s. energy policy and lessons learned fro' the winter 2021 in texas a power outage. at the going to talk about the global crisis as well. i'm going to introduce th' panel moderator and they are going to come onto the stage. she will introduce the panelists. jackie is host of the jackie daily show which educates, entertains and engages america in all things energy. you really should check out her podcast bed wherever you find your podcast you will find the jackie daily show. it airs sundays on the blaze.com. radio it airs ony, the dial in texas each saturday. as i mentioned the podcasts are weekly. you can find on iheartradio, spotify, itunes or via podcast. jackie wasn't previously t a
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senior fellow at the texas public policyo foundation. also served as general counsel to an engineering firm specializing in energy, national security and environmental cleanup. she served for many years as legal counsel on capitol hill to the chairman of the subcommittee on the constitution and the former ranking member of the commercial and administrative law subcommittee advising on the oversight of federalov agencies. jackie said it economic, spanish and world history at marshall university in that university in spain. she is an alumni of vanderbilt university law school where she served as the president of the law school's federalist society chapter. jackie has an extensive network from which she draws a guest for the jackie daily show including industry leaders representing all parts of the energy sector, government officials, journalists and politicald insiders. often jackie will know the days most wanted desk and be able to
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secure the guest with a personal call. i can personally testify she already knew and has interviewed most of the speakers we have here today. jackie is from the ohio river de where the shale runs deep. she dissents meant long line of energy workers including roughnecks, railroaders, coal miners and nuclear energy specialists. you can follow jackie jackie daily host on twitter. encourage you to do so and let's give a warm welcome to our panel. [applause] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> could you all take a seat? sure. and everybody down before i get started. all right my honor and pleasure to introduce our guest robert rice. finally here he is. he is the coproducer of thece
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documentary juice are chaired here at last night. how electricity explains the world. robert is a texas-based author, journalist, podcast, film producer andli public speaker. over threetr decades as articles have appeared in the wall street journal, "new york times", national review, field and street and the chronicle. the documentary just mention, juicy produced along with austin -based film director tyson release in the 2020 and is now available on numerous streaming platforms. he has a published six books the most recent a question of a power, electricity and the wealth of nations. spent 12 years as a reporter for the austine chronicle. 2006 -- 2010 he was a managing editor of the human -based energy tribune. 2010 -- 2010 a senior fellow at the manhattan institute pillows and often with his wife lauren was an art teacher, photographer and master potter.
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on the site is blue from continental resources he is also senior vice president of hse. he is responsible for strategic leadership of corporate hse and esg programs along with guiding corporate policy and regulatory initiatives. this is the company as you knowh his past chairman of the north dakota petroleum council, currently serves as chairman of the petroleum alliance of oklahoma board member of domestic energy producers alignmentt, counsel for secure america and the oklahoma city national memorial museum. native oklahoman he has degrees from oklahoma state and university of tulsa law school. so we will get started. [applause] [applause] xg the beacons uniforms but i
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guess they will do. good afternoon. i'm going to talk about what happened in texas parenthesis personal story for me. my wife lauren is here, less ephemera 153 are out for 45t hours. talk about why that happens. i'm going to address, i revise my slide deck a few minutes ago after hearing some of andrew's comments moment to talk by the eu what's happened in the eu because texas it io cases are very important because they are so similar. okay so i'm not going to read the slides you burn going to let you read it. 700 people died not all of them because of lack of electricity. but i want to underscore this point, the grid came this close from a complete meltdown. said on vibrate 25th of the emergency board of directors meeting the grid was with about
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four and a half minutes at a complete shutdown not going to spend much time on this but just think for a minute 26 million texans plunged into darkness and is snowing sideways and temperatures were falling. you could not travel. the roads were impassable. had that happened, texas would've had what biologist would call mass mortality that it would not have been seven or be able tens of thousands may be thousands of people died. and it would've ramifications out the entire rest of the country becausee texas, i'm from oklahoma not here brag about taxes, taxes accounts are up 10% about everything in america the population, gdp, food, fuel, transportation is a critical state. and if the system had g gone blk getting it restarted after going system black wait a bit effectively impossible not just for days but perhaps weeks. that would have caused a nationwide recession. so let's be clear about thesm
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stakes here in about what almost happened because of mismanagement of the texas grid. okay, the key points. after the disaster all caps reportsde come out. don't blame renewables don't blame renewables those silly texans, the silly republicans are the renewables are probably the cause for this. yes absolutely. sixty-six build a new screen grabs and what is charlotta screen grabs today. these are screen grabs of the wind industry's lobbies on the solar industry website for their own numbersil a 63 billion, some for 2021. $66 billion spent on wind and solar in the years before the blackouts. i did they spend 66 billion because i got $22 billion in subsidies. that is stated from bill peacock was on the analysis on this. what other kind of business would you get into a third of the money you spend any form of
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subsidies. what did that mean then? you see a massive change in generationon because of the subsidies. hello? wind energy increases byes about 20%. cold the clients by about 20%. that gas is effectively flat, so arise a little nuclear files a little bit. the other thing that was never mentioned and i do mean never, not in texas, noted "new york times" not in his other national publications, that in the years before the blackouts six gigawatts, six-point to gigawatts of capacity was retired. under pressure from the serra club environmental groups et cetera but you do not hear that of course. that is not discussed it because does not fit the narrative. okay, so what is driving w this? why again did this happen? the federal subsidies are driving the investment as well as the rest of the grid in the unitedph states.
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but it's a simple graphic it's the only kind i can make us by the homely is a slide you will see all day. this is congressional research data i matched with bp data. one thing on a per unit of energy produced basis i denominated i could put in btus, gallons equivalent doesn't matter. roughlyno one quadrille unit bt. if you do know your si units you should. but the denominator is the same. the dollars per unit of energy produced basis all industries getting roughly 250 times more federal tax in the nuclear sector wind industry something like 170 have done the math lately. but hydrocarbon guys are cashing in when it comes to federal tax credits for the numbers don't support that. so this is the story we did not hear from professor dressler talking about the subsidies are driving solar and wind. super, super, super.
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i had to control my gag reflex over there. [laughter] locate, this is a slide more than any other explains what happened. this is a slight dark berman created he graciously allowed me too use it. so what happened question focuses january 30 in texas. it's a nice day the wind was blowing pretty what what happens when it drives out natural gas it dries out some coals that is what windows when the wind is blowing it reduces the amount of gas on the system. but then, look right here. february 15 when my lights went out. what happened? solar and wind disappeared $66 billion spent on wind and solar they went to camp known with ted cruz.
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[laughter] gone, disappeared, went on vacation but don't blame us, it is not our fault it is the gas guys, really? the gas guys go to almost zero on january 30 they go to about 50 i don't know what is at 4000a few hours? and they are the ones to blame. it is just not true. it is just not true. another screen grab exactly six months to the day after my lights went out screen grab you can finds it yourself this is february 15, urquhart warns of power shortages. four months to the day it was hot that day in austin. throughout texas. power demand is at 70000 megawatts about what was on february 15 when the third load shedding. when it goes to zero.
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that is not the only wind this is just last month. again, high power demand we are 50000 megawatts of wind again goes to almost zero. again, and again, and again. they are not required to provide power power is dear in there in is the rub. and doctor dressler said we wile just fix. what he's saying is you have to subsidize the thermal generators to come into the market when they are needed. and so the windrm and solar guys can free ride and that is the right word, on the thermal generators. mckinsey report you don't have to believe me, or the biggest respected energy consultant companies in the world issued their analysis in december, what did they say the worst of the problems occurred during extended wind and drought.
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and i heard this will build more transition i will come back to thaty. for 12 days. a lot of people say there's a lot of gas the availability of gas a prayer to the blackouts fell. yes it did because the wind was not blowing. and what did they say is a sharp wind power rises the shared goal coal and glass -- gas decline makes increase in importance. yes, hello, doubt not a paid consultant i can agree with that one. but these at market deficiencies are the leading contributor to making the system less reliable market issee the distorted by federal subsidies i just showed you that slide. but it gets worse. this is data from website on their projected additions for the grid between now -- 2020 the
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end of next to the 28 gigawatts of solar. that is nearly equal to all the existing solar in california today. the amount of combined cycle gas being added is effectively zerow why? these are business guys are pretty sharp, they know they cannot make money and caught up or they'rehe not going to builda power plant that will not pay back the money but they cannot andre get lending from banks too it. the banks are going to say how are you making the return on your investment? here's what it looks like. again a homely graph the only kind i can make. by the end of next year we could have 72 gigawatts of wind and solar. that is more than the combined capacity of every former in texas. : : : so what do we know i won'ti won't go into all these i've said that the rto model is broken.
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regional transmission organization model is broken. i could give you chapter and verse on the amount of litigation that is now underway something. i wrote about it in forbes 131 insurers have sued ercott. orcutt doesn't have any money or cut some market manager at those insurers prevail and it appears they might because the dallas court of appeals just ruled recently that that doesn't have sovereign immunity. have sovereign immunity. are they state entities? i don't think they are a state entity and if they are who is going to pay those property casualtyeg losses unless the legislature steps in and says we are not paying anything? this is ago mess and it's goingo gethe worse and one of the other appliances they've merged but dethey are still regulated separately. there is a call on gas if you retire we retire this coal and
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you're going to be the battery. we've told you you're the battery, we b will pay you but your the battery and when you don't show up we will have people complain about you but the problem is not fixed, not by a long shot. the professor isn't here, too bad, sorry. wind and solar exact same way we were here in the front row it's cheaper. okay, fine. my friend says there are three things when you plan new additions to the grid. where you're going to put it, how you're going to connect it andhe how you pay for it. he didn't have one word like so many of the academics, these spreadsheet jockeys. maybe you ought to leave palo alto and stanford and cal barkley and go to small towns in
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iowa or spend a little time in rural california because in rural california there was rejected a big wind project. kansas, san bernardino california, the largest county by area in america in 2019 band of the large-scale renewables. in the state of california with 100% clean electricity by 2045 and net zero by 2045. vermont is listed. bernie i doubt it. bernie sanders was one of the biggestt proponents in the senate. he ran on a platform that says we want 100% renewables, that's great but you can't build wind turbinesm in vermont or new yok or california. where are you going to put it, how are you going to pay for it but it's not just wind, it's solar. solar. is cheaper.
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okay, fine. ignore the slave labor end of and thefact the u.s. state depat sanctioned solar panels from the province where 40% of solar was being sourced. forget that. you couldev still call it clean energy even though you have slave labor in there. we will ignore that. where are you going to put it? i just made this slide a fewli minutes ago the topic they published that that much. thank you on what's really happening on the ground in america. you won't read about this in the "washington post." they did a pretty good story the other leg about eight prairie in texas. and you won't read about it in the npr. i had a piece i published decrying thatt terrible coverage in the business you won't read about "the new york times" that will not cover the backlash
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against wind and solar in the state of new york. about the problem with solar and wind means big footprints and acrossou the country people saye don't want your stuff. how are you going to connect it? in atlanta i finally got good data on the high-voltage transmission and how much isth being built. we are building up 17 miles off the high-voltage transmission 230 kilovolts and above since 2008. the amount of intrastate that is crossing state lines is less than that is like 250 miles but even if we grant you the 1700 miles a year at current rates it is doubling the transmission to get to 90% will take 140 years. yet these phd's we will do it
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'all with wind and solar. we will double the high-voltage transmission. explain because i'm from tulsa. [laughter] you have to go slow. [laughter] how are you going to build it? building pipelines and putting them in the ground is hard try doing the same with electrical infrastructure that's 100 feet oras 200 feet high. the state of iowa passed the law prohibiting the use for high-voltage transmission all across theur country. at the rural w communities are saying we don't want high-voltageur transmission acrs our property come our county, our towns. the grid we have is largely the grid we are going to have. so it's not just massive amounts of transmissions. my daughter made this slide for me and i quite like it because it pops. 2 different analyses won by david keith and harvard from
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2018 and on all these issues existing electricity with wind alone that's not the objective, nobody is proposing that, california's worth of land, you can't even build a single wind turbine in california, yet these people are saying we will put it out there. eastern colorado, kansas. those out there. my slide data that i've been selecting from coastro to coast from maine w to hawaii restrictd the project in the last eight years. wind industry nevert challenged. they want to act like it doesn't exist but the facts are the facts. w edwards says in god we trust and everyone else, bring data. this is the data. you can find it on my website
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the renewable rejection database, theey solar advocate said wind advocates they don't want to talk about this. it doesn't fit their narrative, this isn't the reality. so what is all this doing? this is a piece i published days ago you don't published data on your website or public reports unless you know it's true because if you publish false information they are not very happy about that. what are they saying about the increasing declining reliability of the grid? they are pointing to renewables but it's not just.
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the decline and reliability and what else did they say? they said the same thing. wind droughts. solar droughts. the grid is increasingly characterized as 12 extreme widespread 12 days. this is the reliability corporation responsible for the reliability. why would they publish it and say the same thing, why would they say this? because it is true. wind and solar are cheaper, great, i will accept that except the fact that they are bad for the grid. they are fragile on the most important energy network. as said, self poisoning the energy network all of the most important networks depend upon. it's a dangerous, dangerous trend that we are facing in the
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united states. what happened in europe? it's a headline wind droughts. we can talk all day long about russia and ukraine and can't believe the maliciousness, the outright murder business of this guy, putin. but europe drove themselves into the ditch by over investing and under investing and closing the power plants and relying on imports. at the same thing i said in front of the natural resource committee where i testified in november. this is the danger in not saying i have any special insight but this has been obvious for a long time. so, storage. okay so we need better storage okay let's talkng about storage. can you talk about batteries, sure i can talk about batteries. again about one tenth of everything in the united states. we generate about four, 4,000
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hours a year in the united states, texas accounts for about 400 divided by 365 days you get 1100 gigawatts hours. it produces about 50 per year. the math is so simple i can do it. .to produce enough batteries to power texas for one day requires output for 22 years. scale, scale. it's always about scale. wind and solar are cheaper. okay, great. i heard you say that about 15 times. [laughter]so so what is it, too much on renewables, too little on the nuclear and now what are they facing, economic ruin. and the price to be the latest craze i checked the trading hub
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in holland price of gas per million last time was $72. today it is what, five? less than five. so 14 times they are forced to pay for natural gas because they didn't drill and they bought to this renewable garbage. my friend i have to thank thinkbecause we talked about ths quite a lot. so, look at germany they are held up as this great model to be followed. so let me give you a preface since the days of edison they've had one idea in common you create a grid and produce enough capacity or have enough machinery to meet the demand if you're a farmer, whatever, even if you have something you leave it sit in the garage or when you
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drive at the miles per gallon the cost is pretty high but what has germany done they've nearly doubled the generation capacity. they didn't close the plant. they are going back and i will talk about that. they nearly doubled the capacity but theyey didn't increase the amount they are producing. so the capacity factor for the installed generation is declining and making all of this even more stupid. just a few days ago the german government announced they are existing plants. they are not going to extend the lives of the existing plants pls after i december 301st. you can't fix saddam, you just can't fix it. yet that is what they are doing. after all of this. even after the invasion of ukraine. and the few ministries that decided they are going to close
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the plants that they are headed by the members of the great party. >> it is madness. i've stole this idea from a friend of mine that lives in boulder and he teaches at the university of colorado. he said we are forced to choose between economic growth and climate action. governments will choose economic hogrowth every time. so i thought about this a lot and i thought i like this idea and after being traveling around the d world and puerto rico, wht did i see, people are not going to sit in the dark. they will do whatever they have to do to get the electricity they need from 2012 after hurricane sandy. it was read gasoline tanks and those are tesla power walls for poor people. [laughter] beyond coal michael bloomberg
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has given $500 million, pledged to the beyond coal campaign that is beyond natural gas campaign as well. we are not going beyond coal. the price at the trading hub globally over $400 a ton. in some places it is selling for $600 a ton. the iron law of electricity is alive and well and will continue for a long timeec to come becaue people are not going to sit in the dark. i threw this in here because again, when it comes to industrial policy in this country we go to talk about it o long time, rare earth minerals we have no industrial policy. china doesa and they are stealg the march on us in a big way. i know there is a reporter here to talk about the plans to build
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the reactors in wyoming. okay we can talk about it but those haven't even gone through the approval process and i bet they will get rejected because the show to be renamed the regulatory commission in the f last several weeks and couple of days ago the nrc was democrats in the majority now with an additional two seats on the commission, they rescinded for the nuclear power plants in pennsylvania and turkey in florida. we are serious and we have to get serious about nuclear and we are not. especially since last
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february 18th.s the over dependence on renewables and on natural gas what were the lessons for the plants that did the best and i showed you that before they had on-site fuel.
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that's it. i will stop there. thank you very much. [applause] >> do you have any reaction to what you've heard? >> i was going to add what he said isk interesting when you talk about what has happened in our country with the regulators and i think a lot of that when we talkbo about so let me go bak a little bit. we are with continental resources out of oklahoma but we also produce and know how to vproduce and very cold weather and most everyone in our business knows how to produce and very cold weather. that's where they are at at the time. they all know how to do this.
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but what has happened is you look at the margins and from you can be just in time but there is the cost associated so what happens is we have incentivized to the government incentivized wind and solar and you have state officials sitting in these utility boards into saying when the utility comes to me they are trying to get the lowest cost electric unit to the customer and that is what they are being elected by and i'm not criticizing them at all but what they have to do now is included that a reliability factor because that is key and what does that cost? i will tell you right now oklahomare is seeing a cost we e going through security in oklahoma and it is at a $4 billion if you want to know the true cost to an oklahoma consumer for wind and solar when
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we've been going for almost 20 years oklahoma is one of the second largestes window produces or was the second largest in the country. we are not afraid of wind in fact the oil and gas industry we want to compete on a level playing field of course but we are not afraid of the resource, more energy, that is the great rating for the country and the state. i do need to say. i am a member oklahoma and by the way they do have a ban by the tribe. it was a great place but this is where the well over 100 years ago we've been producing oil and gas in oklahoma. we know how to do this. most of the regulations are coming from oklahoma. we are not afraid to be regulated. we are drilling oil and gas right now in wells and areas that have been explored 100
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years ago. that's the resource, they put wells in areas where we are going horizontally as stimulating rock and a huge amount of resource is available for oklahoma. we are on a vast resource and awhat we've done is incentivizd wind and solar grant not put a primary if you will cost on that reliability and that's something i think we have to see going forward. >> of the wind industry is going to fight that tooth and nail. they don't want to provide the mpower. >> i think that's right. we are already seeing that. because really harold is about solutions and i promise you he's going to work for solutions for the country. gas prices, oil prices are high right now. but we would rather them be lower. we are working to provide more
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energy to the consumer. wewe want our economy to run smoothly and we need a lot of energy to do that and we understand that. we are working right now to try to get a solution through the utility sector so they understand we have wind and solar proposed and i can promise you we are reviewing those proposals into saying how do we prevent this from happening again. right now if you are on a fixed income in the state of oklahoma your utility bills will go up around five dollars a month. that is the real cost. that is the cost of global warming. when the professor says this is cheaper i can promise you what we are going through is impacting consumers today. it just gets lost and those are real people. talk about energy poverty it's in america. it's happening and we talk about and i think it's right.
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the story is bringing cheap, reliable, affordable energy naround the globe and that is what we need to do but we also need to be bringing into people and to be providing jobs and create manufacturing all the things that energy does in oklahoma, north dakota but across the country and we are falling down on that. >> they finalizedhe a deal for their electric cost units to the tune of $900 million then 1.8 billion so we don't know how much they are going to be because that is a legally electric providers because they are also from the bills that passed the texas legislature that also allow the gas
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providers to securitize thehe exces' cost so this idea it's cheaper and what we are seeingg now is because these utilities have to be made whole to try to avoid shock so they are securitizing and paying out over 20 or 30 years. >> we see the same thing in oklahoma and it is going to be in the billions it's going to be billions to consumers in oklahoma that they haven't seen yet and they are going through a process, so sometime in 2022 the bill is going to go up five dollars and what happens when that happens again? what happens of another storm comes through and we haven't made a baseline cost, the baseline of production of a combined plant that's part of the system is an insurance cost
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either to billion hour a little bit higher rate long-term they own wind and solar grant of subsidized again we are paying those but we are not calculating them at the rate so the consumer is going to pay and that iss the problem but they have to put a factor on the reliability and that's got to be a pretty high factor. >> they probably left the impression what happens was a uniquely texas problem and the people kept talking about unprecedented storms into this only happens once every 50 yeare or once every century. the impression that it's behind us. that we don't need to worry about it now.
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should we expect this to happen again in texas? >> certainly it could happen again because it is once in 100 years doesn't mean it resets. we had a major storm in 2011 which after the storm made a lot of recommendations the regulators didn't follow through and they included understanding my point about the grass grade and electric grid and that is nthe case because we have gone now my first book was on enron back in 20 years ago and we were burning natural gas for the electric sector and today it's close to 12 trillion per day so the electric grid has become more and more dependent on gas but the two systems are regulated separately so there
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has to be a rationalization across the country to recognize this as an attribute but it's a vulnerability when it comes to high demand periods. >> and i will add about the true cost of energy that is one of the things we need to be paying attention to. if you want to put wind and solar to the true cost of energy you've got to put battery storage in that. i understand what they were talking about from the grid perspective but it doesn't work like that because you are not yt meeting in the room like you finish cap sand solar, it is a state-by-state perspective and by the way the states can pass certain laws that impact the overall grade, so it is a function of making sure the state officials are paying attention to their own grading t of making sure that the
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reliability has a cost associated with it. let me also add one thing to it. i think the oil and gas industry has gotten a bad rap for not necessarily working through if you saw the headlines of the naturalhe gas. i work with 1300 coworkers of the continental land thousands of individuals that are employees and subcontractors in fact we had a number when you talklk about the oil and gas industry is a company we work with over 400 companies that are ten people are less so we have a lot of small contractors and i promise you they work their asses off 24 hours a day during
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that a storm. they were out there and we have heaters that we were bringing in from states across the country. this is not a lie we had guys buying space heaters becauseha they could figure out a piece of equipment they could keep warm. thee ingenuity that went on. it's interesting good in oklahoma and i know we have some or may have some utilities in the room and co-ops and what has happened in oklahoma is we had a utilities required. what happened is the utility didn't know where that was and the impact that was going to happen so on the compressor station it's directly impacting the ability to put gas on the line so that i had implications. we have worked through some of those solutions. that's a communication problem
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but that's one of the things that occurred if you had the lines because they shut down the electrical systems not realizing its critical infrastructure, it's like a hospital because basically you are shutting down mpyour system once you shut the compression off so that was another solution that we worked on in oklahoma and i know they've done the same thing in texas. >> if i could add one other thing. electricity it isn't a commodity it's a critical service and i think one of the problems in been thatssion has policymakers and regulators and legislators they don't understand what the grid is that it's a complex network. we buy the hours but what we need are the lots. we don't care about energy. what we want is power and we
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have to have the power instantaneous all the time so the failure to understand it as a complex network that cannot be allowed to fail i think is at the root of a lot of this misunderstanding about what is going on with the regulatory response. >> why would it have taken so long to restart? >> how long do we have? our power went out for less than two days but there were other people across the state without power for five days. it goes to the complexities of the network and i can't say this for certain but the utilities themselves didn't know which circuits should be kept on and should be allowed to be turned off. ii didn't learn until the other day one of the hospitals in downtown was shut off.
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that was a no-no. so i think as a part of this model and we have this crisis but that doesn't stop anywhere. we are going to depend on the market. that doesn't work for this business. the grid in arusha since the
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days of edison it is relied on these big spending pieces of steel and i moderate in san antonio for the rural co-ops for the cooperatives with san antonio in 2017 and a former ceo was on the panel and we just had come back from australiaia where it was failing at of the inertia was an issue on the front page of the newspapers. so what about all of this that you are adding in the solar and wind and he said at a certain point i want a big piece of spending steel so when you lose some generation you have to synchronize that generation that failed. it's an extraordinarily complex
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among a lot of different players when c it goes south it can be difficult to get it restarted. >> fwe had a goal of reaching 1% of the capacityci by wind. in oklahoma. they pushed this initiative and we are in an energy state. we are not against wind but what has happened is they've taken that federal subsidy and exploded that development and it's funny i used to work for jim who answered a question after he was done with of the answer he would say i don't know what the question was but that's your answer. what's funny to me in the build back better you have $55 billion
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for green initiatives including the wind and solar incentives so when we talk about it being the cheapest if you will they are still gettingg government subsidies and expanding government subsidies. if you want to know the policy, it is 2015 and we began to export out of the country in 2015, seven years ago. that's where we are. so, where the tail wags the dog from a policy perspective and that is a big problem going forward is you are still going to seere even in the bills comig forward we are in dc talking about what's going on and just recently they met with senator perry secretary carrie. it was an interesting meeting
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heralded with an interview in that time santa secretary carrie read that article and called them up and said in the financial times article you couldn't get a hold of me so he sgoes right up to dc and we sit down and he had a cordial meeting and he was a gentle man.
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it's money to produce and you are actually saying the expenses they subsidy and that is a problem. that is not relying on being honest. he talks a lotbo about iq and we have a path not emotionally tied to some of these policies so
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that's what we are doing. he is been committed to meet with this administration and we would lovet, to meet with them n fact when they told us again we've looked at all of those most of them are in four counties in the u.s. 9,0000 permits. that is what we will have to get towards too find solutions.
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the other key number here is the production tax credit was going to be put at $25 a megabyte equal to the wholesale price of electricity in the state so how can anyone compete within an entity thatt is getting equal to the markets price? you can't and that is a reason whys it's not being built in texas because it is uneconomic and the i reliability of the reserve capacity willt continue to decline. everyone confirmed california. >> and they aree also getting tx subsidies in the state as well. you are charging a production tax with oil and gas if you're not getting that in texas we are not doing it in oklahoma. it's those kind of equities you
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were going to have to look at those kind of things. i was proposed texas does need to charge the tax on window. affect levels the playing field. >> the question about the vulnerable position in texas and the same with europe vulnerable to russia because you're unable to produce what they need right this second. in the uk they decided to starting right this second we are going to be reverse. it is accelerated on our own production. how long would it take them to rampmp up how much would it tak, how much money would it take for producers to bring down the gas prices is a similar question and of these things don't just happen overnight.
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>> it's interesting and complex. that is a broad issue because you have an administration that has put an issue on loaning money and we want to end this we areiv not going to get infrastructure.f it's just overall use all the secretary talk last week we want more production and i think it was mentioned earlier we haven't seen anything from that or policy changes. there is a full-scale okay, we
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were wrong. crand the president to his credt during the s state of the union basically said let's defined the police. i was wrong, let's fund the police. i'm not saying he is going to do that but it would take that kind of large-scale adoption. it is probably just wishful thinking. >> the commission just passed a rule in the last few days any new pipeline project has to pass a climate hurdle.
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into the uk. if there is a limited supply and the supply is limited now more than ever because we lead so many rigs, so there's no doubt in my mind the uk and all of europe have to start drilling right now but it's going to be a
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years long process because they don't have the infrastructure that's going to allow them to do the ramping up of the production with the most droll province in the world is the hottest still but you have all that infrastructure ready to go so they can ramp up the production pretty quickly but it's going to be hard. there will i be people that dont likeub it and there are those opposing it. >> those that drilled the oil wells in the uk for the oil and gas production if you talk about if you have a problem, they are going to solve it. that's what our industry does andhe it's they will solve problems but just get out of the way and we can do stuff. but you've got to be incentivizedea to invest.
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>> are you t able to find enough people to man the cruise? >> if you look where we are from this perspective, 1600, we are at 600 operating now. a lot of folks in the industry are coming back. we are training a new people. i work on the team and safety is something we talk about every day because there are so many people in the industry that don't understand. they are learning how to deal with the equipment and all those things. but it's going to take and it does take time and it absolutely takes time but i would argue that it's the overall sense of we have people in this room and let me tell you oil and gas will be around a long time, don't be afraid to be in the business. [applause]
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>> but how many people are you sure it right now? truck drivers, workers. >> there's no question it is a constraint. 100, 200, 300. i can tell you right now if you wanted to go out the prices are increasing dayay by day because that is the numberva of availabe on wages and times and crew, it's everything. the amount that is available isn't there. so, absolutely. however we've been in this position before and we can't come out but its investment into the process and its long term, that is the other problem when you're talking about investing. these are not the pieces of equipment and if investors say you want to put these to work long term andit it's not -- it s bold after it's nearly already built that would never happen. theun rule of law is in this
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country and what has happened is it's made every energyne investr skittish because how do you rely on that? and i'm not skittish, apple is going to be fine. we have to put money out, i have to have reasons behind that and there'swi a lot of policy that i think will incentivize that. >> even if they were not, what about thee constraints? the capital not flowing to the nproducers because people wanto divest flex how big of a problem is that? >> absolutely you're seeing that changeow a little bit on we are going to need oil and gas. it's amazing when you are profitable how quickly although i will tell you it is also the oil and gas industry telling the story better. we've always had a good story talking about what we are doing not just environmentally but what we need to socially and
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getting better environmentally as well. we are paying attention to the issues and communicating them better and i think it is going to broaden the investment horizon in the future. >> if i could add a quick point. i'm from tulsa and the alliance resource i'm acquainted, he is the ceo of the company and i had him on the podcast a month or se ago so the second largest producer in the eastern u.s. producing 36 million tons a year could expand because of the market demand for coal is so high but then he says we have 14 bankers and the revolving line of credit. seven of them have told us they won't be back. there is a company that's not doing anything illegal and bankers are cutting them off. so this is a cancer on
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capitalism and its unaccountable that is made by a lot of people who don't have any accountability of the general public and the invasion of ukraine should be an inflection point appointed where policymakers understand we have to have energy security and it depends on having homemade energy and domestic energy and a robust dynamic energy industry we have but it's being undermined by this. >> i just want to say thank you to the institute and your team, you and everyone here. these events matter and we have a lot of continental and sometimes it looks like and feels like you're fighting alone and when you come into the rooms like this and have these conversations it is incredibly unhelpful so thank you for
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having us and i will say this is the worst year i've ever had. [laughter] but i look forward to a coors light later. [applause] [laughter] >> right now joined by lily. her book is left behind, the democrats failed attempt to solve any quality. let's start in the present before we go back in the past. a lot of the news today about the democratic party is the establishment versus bernie sanders. does that have a history to it? >> thank you for having me and talking with me about the book. 1 of the things that came out of nowhere butn they are deep-seatd tensions in the democratic party that have

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