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"c-span2" as a public service. >> you betcha, is larry o'connor here and we are live now everywhere honestly but we will be live everywhere for long rain or streaming live on her youtube channel where hundred and on facebook and we are also directly to lifestream app page what i'm doing these lives the latest long interviews like we've done with marcus and others and earlier this week, with chris and our book club interviews were doing tonight with a great - about his book fiery but mostly peaceful, and also we have done become anothea book interviews already in next week, hold on, in ten days, june a very special exclusive lifestream look up interview with right jack car, former navy seal and now with this fifth thriller out this week by the time that we talk to him, and

you personally will be new york times number one bestseller and in july, this premier revenue streaming series of this series of books, jack part book with star chris pratttt in the guy bg time and is awesome it is great and he loves his country and just drop the book and he's going to be with his june 1st the mark that down and here is the deal guys, all of this stuff right now is live and enjoy is all going to go with an this at locals and i think that a wall because minor subscription her life - - that we will offer you all week long little time so you can join for free and if you not ready part of the local community, please do so is anna pretty, hit isci just like joing any other social media platform and forget like context of their everyday including my daily rundown under morning show, little of the stories that we talk about in all of the backup and the content that we use for show prepping to bee able to tak about all of these topics and enjoy not for free and then our

exclusive content, that is just for our paid members of local coming can participate in that as well and some things that we keep just for our special friends at local and if you join us today you can use this code for free come use code larry why teen of you're watching a facebook, larry and tw, he found a some of the way come use larry f you and i don't know why just makes me happy. [laughter] and allt right, now that's done now if you want to participate by the way go ahead and leave comments here best way right now is through youtube because i integrate directly with a lifestream and you can talk to me, and you can always well may 25th them i'm sorry, hit is no' your first is may 20 hesitancy, already i'm making mistakes this way needy sarah d jeffrey to r help me and encoure me and you're right, while i was right, for christ sake it is may

dropped the book, thank you sarah and jeffrey for fixing that and i appreciate that pretty you can ask questions me but you already know me and questions of our great guess julio and you can ask him about his journalism at town hall you can ask him about specifically the book is coverage on the riots entity for any is there a difference and we woke get into that in a moment and you can also ask him about his time the marine corps will get into all of that and if i see yourun question if you are a member of our local community coming your question be prominent and first up to you, you freeloaders you will have tot wait all right and is there anything else i got noon i have a list of things that i'm supposed to do for an beauty i might end when i do big time business radio, i have people, and there are people that i got no people here, by the way if anybody wants to be

one of my people, send me a dm, we will talk about it and i need people and all right, let's bring him on out here is the man of the hour and a host of the town in america sweetheart, he's united states marine core member and noo such thing as a former marine you know and now he is my colleague over at the mighty temple media andli he is julio carranza in the areas ended that like you are playing second base for the mets or something, what is wrong with me. >> well, i mean, anything in new york is not up to par. >> actually where are you from originally julio. >> so from illinois about 45 minutes outside of chicago, wheaton college is based out of their and jokingly referred to it is that harvard colleges. >> yes, i am sure that about club grant about actually says that jeffrey, he is a huge

chicago guide i'm sure he knows exactly what you are talking about him where you are from and so real white sox and stock senators and. >> no not really. unlike new york, anything illinois chicago, not generally a big fan. [laughter] >> i remember i drove in the detroit area and my brother lived or moved to chicago, he was one thing and the when he started his family remember when his sonon was born, i remember going to celebrate with him and gradually and trent and you have assented here's my for you as we grow up and is true. >> enemy there was one time but that was before i was bored. >> exactly to typical peers man, just wait until the last decade exactly all right, what are you drinking tonight by the way and i have little red wine going your. >> you know you have anything with me right now i have water. >> water.

>> we will powerer through this mullahs and,. >> this is a check in the box for me larry and this is just something that i have to do. >> people need to know this that when i plug into the town all of his you can hear everybody just sort of pulled their that there is an and help but every couple of weeks and it is so obvious that they are in the present of a legend in his aura around me and i think you would know because you show up around 4:00 o'clock in the afternoon usually. >> i consider that a good day. >> you will review all morning. >> i have no idea honestly. i'm not his boss so he just comes in whenever. >> i think storm is the only person that can blame this on them so were going to get into the book and i want to talk about what led up to the book

first because i doubt you are the streets covering these riots in the fact it in the back of your mind you're thinking a boy to write a book. [laughter] >> no no, that was definitely small so the kind of joke that when iat tell people the book is mellon practice, in actuality, you're a half essentially because i was working on the book without knowing that i was working on the book because, i mean, when it comes to working on this, when this all started out in the second day two year anniversary is coming up the idea that i had was with them anything with covid-19 right that was the main thing get everybody was concerned about and so when minneapolis popped oabout that will i will cover

this and then i will come back and things will just return to normal in a covid-19 error which is not normal at all. >> yes the top presidency analyzing your and covid-19. >> and so i decided okay i'm going to b cover this and that will be that and then right after that i covered jazz that first week up in seattle and then other things in the day that i got back from atlanta when then dc that is writers try to tear down outside of the white house so i went and covered that in really i would check my phone and then i would have to go home and change in right back out there. so around like late july early august, i was thinking about it and like well i been to these places already and on the front lines through all of this. >> and you attributed reading

have keep a journal of it because you were sending dispatches through social media through town hall media and also through life is on "fox news" and covering this so you already had kind of a outline and he didn't have to go back and remember everything that happened because you were documenting it as you went. >> kind of yeah and obviously i didn't get every minute detail like a kindhe of doing the book and even then, it does not go over every single thing just because there was kind of a theme to all in terms of, yes, i go and then i leave but time went on i was really thinking and my mindset changene from oky this is going be of when a debtor to a done and into everything will it stop and then so in the book i write the idea that actually write the door thing was that i was meeting with a source at capitol hill

for the first time in a while because of covid-19 basically he really just said just write the book but just do it is that yout may just do it and he said you won't regret it and so that was kind of the first innings after that meeting early august, where i thought okay, going to actually do this main concern was that it wasn't going to have enough to write about because will at the time it was true because i knew there was going to be more analysis is what have to be kind of a follow-up thing to usf minute that it was when e have a big undertaking also maintaining and doing my job so it's not like i can say that two or three months of working anyway, if i really wanted to i couldt but i don't know, because i had never written a book before but i didn't even know if i would get it lookee the first place so that was why i

continued or why do not take time off. and h they were pros and cons to that suitable here's the thing, i just realized that he my - is going to take me 30 seconds to say this while i do that, i want you to tell everybody about when he joined thee marine corps andi will do you work and how long you were in the marines and how the decision came about and i will be back 22nd into the unit. >> and so i enlisted into the marine corps officially late september of 2014, but it didn't leave for boot camp until may 2015 and you fire that was not even 20 seconds. [laughter] >> it was even better. >> and i was going up you know my military history but american history in general.

that really sparked my interest in joining the t military branch but that is okay so like which one and eventually wanted to going to the national guard because the guard, you basically attend any state school for free but then my family my stepped outside was very much deep into the marine corps i grew up part of w my great grandfather's life world war ii veteran fonda nakagawa and he enlisted in high was 17 years old had any actually laughter world war ii, discharged from world war i and then enjoyed the reserves during that time any actually got out of the dreadful not the draftea but out of the deployment to korea because he had more than two kids in my grandmother she was just

recently more and soad three ana guess at that time, we had more than three kids, you are exempt from korea and impartially, one enof the guys that didn't were actually killed pretty and. >> is your great rabbi who join the reason world war ii your obviously the fourth generation down and were there members of the service specifically the marines in each of those generations leading down to julio. >> and so his two sons when i joined the marines, one of them went to vietnam and saw things over there and it did skip the next generation and then i come along and so i was really fascinated with how the marine corps culture was and how the tradition in the history and even if you are just admin. >> was your great w grandpa alie

when he joined up. >> yes so. >> the pictures herself in uniform with him. >> yes and we were able to do that actually i got a post picture because he died in 2018, last week bike the last weekend 2018 and so, he was able to because i graduated in 2015. i was able to someone jobless logistics as of the why one into the marine corps reserves of it was because of the p time i parents are very pressing the idea to go s to college as i sad will evolve. and i didn't want to do activity of four years and then to college i civil i can do the report right now while also going to college in a funny story with that is that is often

because i ended up coming out of in 2017 to become a journalist which you know i think was a good decision to do but at the time obviously was a bit of a risk. >> and i think that's when we first met because we were both associated with the examiner at the time actually in 2018, and you were coming covering some protest then but it wasn't anything like what we are seeing now but there was a series ofnt protest that you had got into the middle of all be honest with you, is i was having a set of an editorial position as an example and i don't think they knew what to do with you, i don't think they understood how to harness your talent and so is great to ended up town all. >> so when the examiner and obviously have it. >> were not talking anybody. >> well publicly but the way that the examiner was structured is that you were either a big supporter are news reporter was

very much have media were structured for a very long time. but for me, i didn't want to be dedicated to just one thing but it didn't want to be - and like i would cover some folks and i went out into the income finding social media while covering a live event like that, gain traction with getting the story out there and so, yes, because of how the exam was structuring the structure, i just enough for him to what i wanted to do and we parted ways to mixing here about was nothing but the best in the family have their ways of doing things will all where i think that vision as well as a business vision it all recognizes

utilized very place and boy didd you flourish in here was interesting and very understand this about the key providing you the book is "fiery but mostly peaceful" 2020 rise in the gas lighting of america because of people and i think you would make ar mistake that this internal or chronicle a of your experience on the street covering these riots but this is actually come this book is in the purest sense of the word, a orlegacy corporate media in this book, and this is the problem with however journalist and evers might operate where okay, he is good at going in getting footage and reporting of the rights and that is the beginning and the end of your participation end of the people who use that footage for no no no, your power julio rosas, is that you were there new szabo is happening and you are able to blow away all of the myths that the media would tell in your

really ale media critic and you just happen to be the middle of the story covering the truth and then you use that truth to criticize the media, how far off base from which are trying to do here. >> no, you are exactly right and it was funny because in the booi was first coming about, that's not how it was structured because i am of the belief that if you going to be a reporter, bet a reporter and if you don't think any don't do an analysis likeer share which might be covering is true but if you want to putho your spin on it, like u should be a reporter and because of my head that is what the term should become obviously. the term has been vested nice media and mainstream media and the journalist does not really mean that like it used to and that is why there is criticism in town hall and i said i wanted

to be called a writer because is more encompassing and so that is why i want to do analysis and opinions when appropriate and knowledgeable. and so when i was structuring the book, it was just set up to be here's my experience in his experiences of others near some basic analysis unlike the damage and the destruction and kind of all of this 70 was not really meant to be first 100ow argumentative and this is a presentingn an argument. >> here is what happened. >> which is how i did a lot of recovery chance reporting but my agent who arere very people, cannot think oft enough, he as i was heading outut of the border last year when we were the beginning phases of this and he said, you have a great book idea

here however, the publishers, they really want it to be just more than just here's whatever because this isn't a traditional history book so therefore we really can't sell it and so first i was kind of resistant to the idea because i didn't want for what i saw in one of the people experienced to get lost the mix of these arguments but as i went on, i was thinking about it night said you know what, he knowski what he's talkg about and he's been a good ages so far jonathan, and so i said okay i will try to figure out how i can structured that way had a really glad we with that route because yes, the first half of the book is said, here's what happened in here's what i was experiencing and here's what other people express with that also there were a lot of myths

and disinformation affect. >> exactly to 19. >> and just an information board back and i was the latter half of the book and so i'm really glad that it was not well because i cani' be very stubborn and set in my ways but again, this is referring to people who work knowledgeable which is something that a lot of people don't do actually take that advice and so g i really am glad it with their because yes, screw cnn in the washington post and the new york times for continuing even to this day downplaying it what happened it 2020, because generally six sweetheart about that t later bt i'm really glad that i was able to well printed that way without a completely losing what i really wanted to tell because i really believed the strongest part of the book are when i'm interviewing other people and i really think that really is the

strongest parts of the book because i'm just some random guy who pops in and out of these places but i don't deal with long-term consequences. >> would you more than random guy, you did not want to be part of the story but you did actually in some analysis and asagain the book is "fiery but mostly peaceful" about julio rosas and publicly at all of the bias and not just blm but they certainly were part of this and the myth and the views they like to say during 2020 and by the way, i have another graph and personalized copy of the book and so you know, i am sure for a premium you will solve it to our local members right julio rosas. >> what you did kind of explore that so. >> i really did. >> and five is the reason that i sent a bunch of copies and i'll be more than happy to. >> can i just tell you that when i go into the office and julio rosas said i've really got to have a book for you i have an autographed book for you and i

said oh that's right and he delivers it is was that and it was julio rosas that was that you'd just signed your name, it was like it could've been anything. >> do you know who i am. >> i wanted it personalized it. >> there's only 50 copies out there. >> with the same nine, i'm nothing without you, that's what i wanted and all right, that's absolutely true and think you for calling me out of that. [laughter] and it was ann scene in the office that day. all right, andrew used to say to me, every story is a media story and of course he is right, but sometimes you don't know exactly with the media story is and eventually develops and i think that t the riots specifically te george floyd rice be getting that memorial day coming up on two years now as you said, real day we going into the first week of june of 2020, the moment became a media story, is what

you memorialized here on the cover of your book is that image the city of minneapolis burning in the background and reporter on cnn said, "fiery but mostly peaceful". >> that was kenosha. >> he sees me i thought that was. >> we cannot be spreading disinformation larry to have fun oh no, that is why you're here and then summed it all up, that someday it all up and i guess that when you saw that because you didn't see a time you actuallyhe and prickly you were witnessing the whole rittenhouse mcginnis and i do want to get into that in a bit as well or i should specifically say witnessing, you did not witness the actual rittenhouse shooting. >> yes, i did, very have you read the book. [laughter] did you not pay attention to my rittenhouse trial coverage. >> iyo did. >> you had me on the show to

talk about a. >> i know i did but you were not actually understand trying to be very no legally specific and you do not provide i witness to echo outcome of the witness okay i see what you're saying it. >> you were not a witness in the trial. >> in the trial, i was a pretty potential witness and i was like will wait how well does this work i'm covering it, like what is the play here. ... my show the day after the first protest, right? yeah. and you were very you were so you were so accurate and so deliberate and you actually went out of your way to say listen. there are people protesting the the homicide we new for a fact that it was a homicide. we just didn't know if it was a criminal act. we know now that a jury if it was a t criminal act we w know a jury convicted the officer in the murder of george floyd part of the time he said listen, people were protesting

and taking to the streets to protest the homicide of george floyd. during the day they were marching, they were chanting, they are protesting. then, i so vividly render this interview. lee said the sun started to go down, and a new group of people showed up. that is right. sit lay that out, that is such an important part of the story. >> yes, so when i got to minneapolis, this was after they'd set fire to some buildings surrounding th' officers were still defending the priest think that's where the officers involved were based out of. and i get down there, is nothing like i've ever seen before. i've been sost used to protest d not affecting the box around the incident. there are some fights and things can get ready for what i can go

to two blocks over and get something at mcdonald's. [laughter] but this, every play suspicion south minneapolis was either b close, they were being diluted. so i get there. across the street s from the precinct there's a strip mall with the target, cubs showed, a bunch of grocery store chain out thered. there are several small businesses in strip mall. people were just going in and out nonchalantly looting the bird at select black shopping things russian. but by this time there is no fear. this can stop them the cops that are held up on the street? a spirit nonchalantly. i'm walking around, taking video. taking it was weird. people were still outside the precinct, they were peaceful, they were upset, they were very vulgar.

they would shout f you and play nwa. in all of this stuff up. were animated, the emotions were high but they were peaceful. and the reason why i was so distinct in making a difference between the members of the committee there are generally older, there's even a church group that showed up halfway through the day that set up like a table, they're giving out snacks, water and things like that. i and i remember sitting down, i'd been standing and walking for thours. i was trying to collect my thoughts and coordinate with townhall on what to do. i was for online phone a solid 15 -- 20 minutes. that's it is getting dark and number looking up and i noticed the immediate difference in who

the crowd was. the church group was gone, all of the older people were leaving. it was a younger crowd, they are trusted differently. they were in black and wearing a bandanna's instead ofce surgical masks. it was such a stark difference not paying attention for that short amount of time. that is whenng i realized. and as the night progressed because the rioters had breachen the fencing perimeter around the police station in multiple areas, officers defensive positions became unbearable. that is when the mayor ordered for them to evacuate. are talking about a major american city here. and they got chased out. >> this was still like early.

this was like may 30 if i remember your book properly. are we into june now? >> i think it's the 29th. i'm sorry, but was the 28th. which leads us to rogelio getting shocked. you start it's is very distinct difference. and if i remember right, i do not want to skip over you getting shot,. >> that's all there k is to it a state trooper pops him with a rubber bullet. [laughter] worked for a situation being in the wrong place at the wrong time? >> no. no per. >> be aware that could happen? like tohe know. they were both in the street where they were in the road the writers in the cops and the cops were pulling away from the perimeter they had set up during the whole day.

as soon as they met a little bit of resistance there old ordered to pull back. so trying to avoid getting shot with crowd control ammunition, i placed myself off on the sidewalk thinking okay i am good. i'm by for this literally no one else around me for i am i myself will have my credentials around my neckk i have my phone in my hand and clearly not i throwing things at them. i thought i should be good, right? i get a little frustrated with rothat. i knew if i was in the crowd cheering into the guide you're probably going to get hit i do not have body armor with me i'm going to be smart and be off to the side and i should be fine, whatever. >> firemen between out the bruise. did you tweet it or text i can't remember. >> i tweeted it pretty cold storm after it happened. >> storm is managing editor at

town hall.ex i remember all of us having out if you are in art there's a group like we've got to get him out of there we gotta get him out of there. s storm may have said he will kill me if we pull. him out of there. >> if i i got told to leave the city and like what's that sorry, can't hear r you. [laughter] that was we were afraid rogelio is going to get killed. >> only because, as much as it hurt and it sucked, it wasn't a life-threatening injury. [inaudible] >> first what we are family and community of individuals who love each other respect each other and like a family. we are also accompanied with responsibilities to employees. exit shop in the header the eye. storm's response was brilliant it's like okay, you are afraid

rogelio is going to kill but if we pull him out of there, he will kill me. so one of us is going to die. [laughter] >> he is right, i would've been like no i'm not leaving. i would have been a little bit insubordinate. >> take some vacation days per. >> exactly. >> that is how george floyd riots sort of develop. then kenosha happened by the time kenosha happened, i would so we're skipping over the washington d.c. rights which are critically important. but owing to set those aside for a minute. in my mind, i re- ate relate minneapolis and kenosha because geographically they are so close to each other. but also i think by the time kenosha happened monthss later,

this whole thing had been -- i do not want to use the word professionalize, but the moment you got to kenosha it was a very different scene. no church groups hanging out on the scene and kenosha, right? >> no, no. that is one of things that maket kenosha so aggravating, thinking about the after action. because kenosha is a town of 100,000 people. it is sandwiched in between milwaukee and chicago. it's about 45 minutes from both places. in the officer who shot jacob at blake was justified in shooting him. because it blake was armed and this is about to kidnap two kids from the mother who had a protectiveca order.

>> not even a close call. >> is not the officers were d rolling by were going to take the sky and for no reason. but looking at the video that went viral the 102nd video i was thinking that looks bad. but then okay, how did this evolve? because we're in the summer of rage and chaos, people looking to thisoh racial lines cops just murdered 100 black men every day, that makes sense. they are like there is no other possible. we are a month, two, three into continuous unrest somewhere but somewhere in the country something was happening. understandably, riots broke out. at the first flight out of duke d.c. to milwaukee.

>> i missed the first night of riots. >> the reason why i say that it's understandable with the smaller town of kenosha is there not necessarily going to put down a violent riot. the problem is though, the governor, tony devers, only called in around one or 50 national guardsmen to deploy and they did not get there until late that next night. riots broke out sunday, the national guard did not get there very late monday night. and he has defended that number and slow rolling out. he said the reason there's only 150 is because that is the number that we had to do a rapid riot response. and i could stay understand that if thousand first right of the year but it wasn't.

especially as time went on fault of these rights getting out of hand and being worse than they probably should have been is just that especially in the democratic it is my opinion the leaders did not want to make it seemed like they were cracking down on protesters. they areki playing and political aspect into theiray decision-making. system of looking at the national guard and overhauling it and saying okay, i'll say it should have done this, alaska, hawaii maybe they don't necessarily need to be as concerned. idaho. >> it matters. >> i don't expect a riot to happen anytime soon pretty could be wrong. no shirt really did disprove that.

especially with wisconsin being in minneapolis. the leadership really should have been better prepared for something. >> youth are right, number one they did not look at their cracking down on peacefulge protesters. democratic governor important to the president for this happened in the year of a presidential election. presidential election involving donald trump. there's chaos on the streets you can inflame race relations in the country that ends up hurting donald trump. these governors have blood on their hands. i think they sat back for a day or two and were perfectly financing their cities it burned down if it helped the party. if it helps get rid of trout. ask if you remember the kenosha riots happened the week after. i remember the night of the

shooting, this was before it happened. right as the night rides were beginning i remember someone tweeting one of my videos and sing the democrats it's very much kenosha did not have to be as bad as it was coming from my perspective. lookn what happens when is the power vacuum 1718-year-old are going to take to the streets to prevent more billings are being burned. later roemer interviewing people for the book, there were neighborhoods literally right next to where the businesses are being burned. a lot of residents were very, very concerned that people are going to start going into neighborhoods in the name burning down houses. some apartment units were whend

no one was killed while no people were killed, family pets were burned alive. your obsolete right i interviewed mrs. a man who's in charge knows the terrain coming as the power of the governor? a day one dereliction of duty being a generous he was caught flat-footed again i would accept that on the rights of 2020 isha fiery but mostly peaceful. i love saying that title.

the authors rogelio. we have a question from our grand poop out of our book club. he asked if this is short first book. i think in answering this how young you really are is through the right size 20 form now 26 i think of these things seattle is my favorite part of the story. it absolutely nothing to do or in d.c., or in new york that is going to create their own little kingdom. >> yes. >> or am i wrong?

is there any incident that happened at the same thing too. something else happened. it wast all because of what happened but.' >> also barack obama was president then there's no reason. when i originally pitched to go to seattle there still riots happily outside the precinct. i just got back from minneapolis. i took two days off and i was just trying i was thinking that was fun. i guess that is it. but seattle was still going. but the night before my flight that is when the mayor said were

pulling our officers out of the easter precinct. >> literally s retreating. text i thought oh, i think i just wasted company money because there's not going to be any riots. but wait if they're leaving the precinct are the going to burn it down? what was going on? slightly ahead. and i get into the area was that's why start seeing signs like a port of entry relieving the h usa. sissy capitol hill which is the neighborhood. as the copper freezone and a lot of territory. or police going to move it back again? thanks considering your coverage of the border crossings when that progressives actually build

border walls they were are great with the department of transportation in seattle. they wanted to take away some of the barriers. we said no, no, no we need the barriers. to keep out white supremacist. i don't think seattle is known for those. those cuts areoa the least of yr worries. we need strong border security. >> go ahead. >> therere is a lot of ironies within that first week. being there taking in the sights and seeing how people interact with each other, i just knew this was not going to end well.

this was going to be again more unnecessarily harm mayor didn't want to see knees cracking down on the latest and current thing. which was racial reckoning. and it needed to happen and all stuff.her the best way i describe you seen that episode of south park. it was, like about. don't then get a foothold and everyone wants to come around and say you areol right.

he's a clairvoyance. >> technically. fix that is definitely more. especially with the profanity laid out. rogelio, at what point during the course of the summer did you become aware that you were recognized in sort of on people's lists? because at the beginning we have press credentials. you are a minority pretty clearly you cannot be a white supremacist. and also you are dressed like you were with the cool kids. at some point? west i got recognized as day. did not anticipate is actually

of this shirt is wearing right now. i wore the shirt on laura ingraham show. a couple days prior. i'm wearing the shirt again aren't you just on fox news? and i said no. >> i don't watch fox news why are you watching fox news? [laughter] and so i walked away i thought he lost him in the crowd. this issue, you are wearing the same shirt. i was concerned he was going to say we got something over here. he was more upset that i liked.

because the first time i was recognized. i put my name out there may face up there i took steps to make sure no one knew who i was. and in wisconsin each of those cases the twitter concert screen shot at my profile or screen shot of telling their followers is a right wing fascist that's out there be on the lookout for

them. bob said i was targeting deerfield targeted on the ground this time on your street you felt they're coming for you? >> the added stress. i have to really extra careful to make sure no one is following me. what should thank goodness for covid for that i guess. >> sourcing to fight over this book. way.roundabout it was added stress, added stress. it was already stressful situation. now i had to worry about cops shooting at me again. forward whether or not i getan

discovered. in getting assaulted. they never m found to me, they never found me. they definitely made efforts. >> is played out, you capture footage of people. you do not a whole lot of going up and start asking questions. what were you able to draw outms of some of these people in terms of what were they doing? what the endgame was? question one.ca question two, we surprise the rest of the media ignored it? i think that's one of the biggest underreported stories of that year. the easiest thing to do my experiences they won't talk to you.

or, they might talk to you especially there are no cops around. they had these in public meetings every day. that was how they were able to detail and document this is what they are trying to do today. this is seller going to go about it. second question is, what you are covering those things you look at your right y and left there's knowing covering these things it was a huge story there is literally on the part of a major city in america. his journals like you that covered that stuff.

>> even cnn got it passed. they were more constant. it is a no go zone media noticeable as it mediate with the camera guy, producer, whatever. list examples in the book were "rolling stone", usa today, are you guys seeing the same things i am saying? sure, however again, when the wasun goes down and even during some parts of duringaf the day depending upon who was in the

zone. it was a very fluid situation. >> your there was very reminiscent into the coverage of the occupied wall street movement in 2012 and 2011. as you know andrew was very focused on the occupied movement at the time. in all of the mayhem and horrible behavior that happened there. let's get to lafayette square d.c. where you did not have thed travel too far. i have vivid memories, every day these things would flare up i would text you and say are you there? can you come on the radio? half the time i expected now is not a good time. i assumed there were things exploding next to you. >> lafayette square, so i was not there work trump walked out

and there's little controversy over that. because i was in minneapolis. i was still there. so when they tried to tear down the andrew jackson statue come again it was more of the same o people would do these masked criminal activities. as soon as the cops come out to make them stop they start crying about police brutality. how would you teargas us, pepper spray us. this is objectively dull him. if you're going to doon revolutionary acts, expect resistance to that. when you do don't pitch and moan about it be the revolutionaries you like to think yourselves as. that just speaks more to the movement at large.ac a lot of times you see the

antifa blm accounts they will keep on praise by first posting a photo of random walls being sprayed, painted which means or as 12 or all this other stuff.he you just spray painted a building is going to come off the next day. this is your idea of a revolution, okay good luck. good luck with that. >> that brings me too chapter five. the title is it's just a property, there is insurance. i heard this from my own daughter, she did not write or anything, do not get me wrong. she is a college kid. the pressures are in college because it got to be the cops are bad, the protesters are righteous it. i said these are small business owners. this could be your grandparents. my daughter's grandparents own a small business. this is their livelihood this is their life savings and it's been

destroyed by these people. and my daughter said that's why they have insurance. when i saw that because there is a level of ignorance combined frankly,cious evil, that infects that kind of mentality. i love that you addressed it here. you got to witness people's lives destroyed. >> i heard it all of the time. every single time especially small business being diluted ors destroyed there's always somebody saying at least they weren't killed by cops are shot in the back by cops. what, am i concerned about target going out of business? no, they are going to be fine. it doesn't mak' it right but again they're going to be fine. >> if i can pause there, they will be fine but they're going to have to raise their prices on

all of their products whichil actually affect low income people who buy stuff from target. all the prices will go up to make up for the destruction and the theft. so ultimately there are victims here. i do not know if you know this but there is an inflation problem right now. this is part of that inflation problem, go ahead. >> exactly. there are reverberations from this. especially when small businesses are being attacked. they're already crushed by the nonsensical covid. they were already losing out with money on that. successfullyre prior not going to recover or take a long time to recover if your inventory is polluted all your building is destroyed. to your daughter's i appointment of the people said they got insurance, everything is fine.

no they didn't. a lot of people don't. interviewing people and business owners, but requires a special extra layer of insurance. >> the insurance company's view it an active terrorists. you can understand. >> who ensures himself for that? >> you can w understand why a small business in kenosha, wisconsin looks at that andon ss it worth the extra money? probably not. i willll be the victim of something with terrorism. it's wisconsin. even in minneapolis or washington d.c. maybe washington d.c. if you do want that insurance to have the money for? >> three sky for that kind of thing. it's not because people it's

another added cost they may or may not be able to afford. even if they all have insurance at the end of the day you're victimizing people who had nothing to do with what w ever happened to whatever caused the right in the first place. it is the idea, this is what is so poisonous about this racial justice movement is that the ends justify the memes. we don't care who gets hurt in the process. in order for us to defend the police that is their goal or abolish the police like in minneapolis or even seattle, you are hurrying -- hurting innocent people. >> before i make anyone think my daughter is completely immoral, we were engaged and honestly, i

had to say to her was you've got car insurance, what is sure opinion of the appropriate person who purposely t-boned tickets out walks away so you've got insurance you have no beef with me. she said okay i get it. but this is the thing. we need to engage in these shallow immoral arguments that are fed into young people. they think they're making a point and they are e not. that is for the grownups have to enter the room. not you, rogelio, you are not a grown up you're only 26. >> oh my goodness.he [laughter] i have waited an hour to it's the hottest topic of the mall that's generally six, you were there, you saw everything on generally six did you cover the rally first? >> yes. >> so by the time you got to the capitol had already been breached? >> not breached.

and again, things were fine,g they were peaceful, nothing was happening.ca i was trying to upload videos and pictures to twitter. a lot of people there the cell phone coverage is not great. i walked up towards the white house to get a better signal and better data. you could not even send text that's how bogged down network was. and a friend of mine texts me and said hey people going to the capitol, going for the white house the capitol building that's a pretty lengthy walk and i had might right here on me already because i had anticipated the evening to go in that similar direction like the previous trump rallies what's peaceful during the day and that proud boys and antifa duking it out at night. and the reason i had all that on me was because i knew i was not going to have enough time to go back home and grab it.

that was the smartest decision i made that day. and so i took t the metro it's near the white house. >> or metro center. >> it was on the blue line. >> it depends how far with white houses. so you took the metro 1 mile? >> because again, i'm having all this gear on. [laughter] >> you are not a marine anymore. come on rough that out. >> i was also trying to get there on time because it was going to take me a while. alright, you are on a deadline i understand. >> so yes i was not expectingeo the people were leaving before trumpet finish speaking. >> but before people distribute initus the comments it is a hobn the towel hall offices to give rogelio crab.

we've got to keep rogelio hubbell. because he is a superstar so leave me alone, go ahead. it was at that point, i was planning on walking t back. but then i got that text will shoot. it's to stop this absolutely two stops. from farragut west capitol south? >> got metro center chinatown it's like for what you talking about. don't call me fake news. he said the blue line to what capitol south got to go through

menton plaza it's four stops are. >> it's three stops atss most to capitol south. >> is got is my witness it is not three stop spirit all right go ahead i'm pulling up the map, now, you go ahead. [laughter] so i knew something was wrong as soon as i got out of the metro station for stops laid out at capitol stock. because, when i got out of the station cops were blocking off the road that leads directly to the capitol building by the cannon office. i'm thinking why are they doing that? cited cutback around i don't back where the rayburn house was. closer to the western side ofan the capitol. and as i was getting closer i could hear people screaming,

yelling, hooting, hollering, i heard the sound of metal banging. so i start running. and then when everything came into view i felt the whole crowd of storming the capitol grounds. at that point that is when i realized oh goodness, this is how the day is going to unfold.l okay, let's get to work. christie will continue the stord in a moment. i was thinking of the redline, union station. we are both right, okay? and here's why, here is why. it's like or stops but each stop is two blocks. distance wise you went about a mile. >> yes. >> a mile i didn't have time for. >> you went to the other side oe the mall and then across. you are right i have a link to

the map to the washington metro. you would have been better off taking the redline to union station walk on the north side of capitol but that's okay. that is what i would have done. but what do i know? >> no. >> all right. >> it was a hectic day. >> here's my question, were you able. >> it was the weirdest right i ever covered, it was really weird. >> put a pan on that. did you actually witness members, the writers is called in for now, did you witness theo breaching police and barricades or police line? >> yes. >> the people who were actually breaching that police line, two questions, first one you have

seen these rights for months an out literally for seven months you've been covering these things in other cities. what was the police complement at the barricade and osha, and wisconsin even at lafayette square in washington d.c. monthm beforewe. it was a police complement what they are properly set up for what happened? >> no, absolutely not. like to say kenosha could but not completely avoided, relate minimize fully believe generally six could have been largely avoided. at least in terms of the capitol hebeing breached. but the cops were not an outright gear. sound of the metal being bank that i heard was easily movable bike racks they had to set up.

and so, they were not prepared for it in the slightest. and again, how? why? we just went through 2020 and people were very upset at the election results. >> everyone knew there was going to be a convergence of interest that day that would have had disruption. >> capitol hill staffers have told me since they said yes, they were getting worried. it was see it whether to even go into the capitol work remotely because their safety concerns. so why was the capitol police on the washington police so caught offqu guard? >> at that moment, my next question to ask you to venture r little into speculation but i know you well enough you prefer

not to speculate. this is an educated opinion that you're going to bring a pretty look at the map right now? are you looking at the metro map? >> i can neither deny. [laughter] >> you put your glasseses on. [laughter] m i think this is going to be an educated opinion are going to give me but it cannot really be proven. the people who were breachingne those police barricades outside the capitol when you witness the first line. we both agree the police did not have substantial and adequate presence. but, at the same time the faultless of the people who pushed -- the police to find a perimeter print whether they were equipped to protect that perimeter or not, you respect with the police say. thank you both agree on that. if the police they don't cross this line and you cross this line you are at fault. my question is, based on your

opinion, those people who first pushed past that police line, who were they? how are they affiliated? did they look like the same people at the peaceful rally? did it look like and see if you saw in kenosha? was it some weird proud boys contingent? what do you think? >> it was largely trump supporters. and the reason why i say that is, i know people were blaming antifa specially the beginning. and look, and t4 is a bunch because they j are not -- they e not great at a lot of things. however, however, they are good at riots. the bit able to do it for so long over and over repeatedly. they get let off easy if they get arrested. they're very, very disciplined.

they would not be caught dead -- if they're going to a false flag, they are not going to be caught dead without covering up their identities. now, a lot ofow people in this crowd obviously were nonchalant about covid. they did not even wear face coverings. the whole reason why there have been a lot of arrests since it generates six as people were very easily identifiable. you even have people using their personal shop social media account life serving themselves going into the capitol. actually it was tweeting what she was doing that day. a lot of people were easily identifiable. there were cameras everywhere. >> this is important. and i get it. i knew the answer because i week after you gave me the same answer. it is important for everybodydy

because listen, the people who have been held at a trial thought this point for a year end a half, it is a miscarriage of justice perhaps a generally six was bad. frank i think what is happening with the justice department after generally six is worse. but that does not mean there isn't some blame to be absorbed you're right trump supporters who did in fact break the law. b and disrupt police activity that date. and i wish they hadn't done it because it was wrong. go ahead. >> obviously, if you are going to break into the capitol building in a way a lot of people did, yes there is the one entrance where the police -- they literally rolled out the red carpet there. >> again that is weird, why would you do that? but that happened so a lot of people went in through that way wand probably thought okay there's other people literally breaking into the windows.

obviously if you're going to do that and not be successful and overthrew the government, the government is going to come down hard on you. that's not to say it's justified to deny them their due process which i think has happened in som' cases. but it's also you should be surprised that's going to happen. our government as good as it can be a lot of times can also be very, very bad. >> finish a thought sorry. >> no, in the book i talk about justice should be equal, right? people who do well and should be held accountable for that's what's frustrating when you have a courthouse attack for a monthe straight in portland and the few people arrested, a lot of them had their cases dropped. rapp talk about trespassing a lot of people have been charged with. we are talking about federal

officers had a gun running a skateboard. >> arson, vandalism. and they get left over. and so of course i w was probaby another thing people from the crowd on january 6 probably thought the antifa can write willy-nilly so therefore we can all take direct action and not have any consequences. >> direct action. violence against violence when the fight too. >> the book will be referred to as been a good 20 minutes as i held it up so let's do it again. by the way copublished by friends of her daily why your book, how do you prefer people by this? just in terms of scoring jeff bezos? >> they can pay that by at barnes &oo noble, books a milli.

anywhere books are sold. >> your garage? ask i told you i don't have any more copies left. good question fromt jeff here is was there a clear set these riots were for the cameras? by the way it could be true believers that the activity occur because cnn live shot was there? or did the live shot go over the riots were? you know what i mean? >> i don't think is necessarily for the cameras. i want to do something in the moment. it all depends. if you are going to take a

violent action, especially against laww enforcement or whatever, on camera you better darn be sure you're not going to be able to get caught after words. because you are being caught on camera. doing criminal activity. that is why antifa will chase you out or destroy your camera equipment because they do not want to be caught. it is on video. i would've done it regardless minneapolis they're doing it live. >> are second to lastio chapteri do love the after action chapter.

great military is sort of what i love we do with town hall and accomplish. just be wine, yes we complain, yes we pound on the table. okay, what can we learn from this? i truly do appreciate nt that is a myth. the second to last chapter. it's a quote directly from not just a congressman but the chairman of the house judiciary committee, jerry nadler. joe biden said antifa an idea not an organization with the director of the fbi, christopher wray basically says the same thing. he aboutt' the idea that it is just an idea.

right wing bogeyman that stuck up there and keep it is not really. >> is a stupid idea. it is so weird the democrat party people within that media placate and run for cover for this group of people who hate them. the radicals of antifa our radicals the democratic party is evil republican party that's what they believe. so why would they want to, again, provide cover for this group. just as happily put them up against the wall i don't know

why that's just a myth that's not really anything. i can tell you it's very much a thing. chapter ten is the shortest chapter. it's pretty much on purpose. it doesn't take a whole dissertation. >> is not even worth a full explanation. >> antifa israel. they go by different names they operate in the same way. and so therefore that is all there is to it. it is as simple as that. it is real, people saying it's not real are dumb lying. once you have been covering quite a bit of what is going onu on the border. this is not about the book specifically it's about, rogelio and what you do and what your

passion is. picked up from and or a soft spot for members of racial minorities, ethnic minorities who don't they are told. and the reason i have a soft spot for people like you, kerri davis and others as you bear the brunt of the worst kind of attackswe. because you are a trader we are told. the challenges of latin america covering the border crisis from the perspective you have it. from a law and order

perspective. >> is not so much a challenge, the problem with the reality of a situation whether it's at the border, which is a different version ofof lawlessness. it's all being done in the name of minority justice or immigration justice or what have you. were trying to do this in more safe, humane way of immigration. no it is not. when you encourage people to come, more people are going to put themselves in the hands of cartels and human traffickers who rape, assault and brought these people, hold them hostagel kill them who cares if you killed ten of your customers is going to be 100 more the next day, right? on the flip side with the riots it was again the racial

reckoning the riots are the voice of the unheard. how can you say this is justice when a lot of people aren't minorities and businesses,. >> what i will say, the writers in los angeles either were too many the rights did break out in may, the writersm had learned from 1999on from 92, sheep instead of burning down los angeles alerting this places they went to santa monica the richer places and ransacked that area. because they know if we burned down our own neighborhoods. >> they are pros in l.a. >> they definitely learn their lesson from 92 which i thought was kind of funny. >> it was before you were bored by the waiver. >> yes that was also before i was born.

but no -- but you know what i'm saying. >> every viewing everything through aa racial lens. that is why the shootingna happened the blm lands and of course it makes sense or just going to shoot unarmed black people for no reason hundreds a day. that is why it's justified to take a violent action against whoever and rampage throughout the streets. that is not a healthy way of looking at things. >> the irony of the criticism specifically the border issue being a racist issue comment ethnic issue, and tight latino issue. and i learned this from your reporting, rogelio, the majority of border patrol agents are latin american, they aree hispanic.

they are the ones of the bear the brunt of this for they are in danger because what is going on your part they are being taxed most because of these policies. and then you see the women and children who are exploited in the most devastating and violent ways who are living horrid conditions on the border, or in the shelters put up. if you truly do care about the plight of latin americans, you would actually call a halt to these policies. that's latin american suffering the most here because of thess policies. most of your sources from the border patrol i'm guessing aren't latin american hispanic officers who are saying you've got to get this out because no one is reporting on it. >> i will not reveal my sources. also your broader point was correct, yes. and he also suffers the most is on the mexican side of the border. it is their town that has to take care of these people that

are coming now by the thousands, and all this other stuff. it doesn't make sense. just because i sais been done in the name of racial justice i doesn't make it so very. >> as usual everyone can tone it got someone on her and like i talk to rogelio for hours and hours. but i am done because i got to wake up early in the morning. [laughter] and we've gone through so much that is in theal book. but sadly we've only scratched the surface but there's a hell of a lot and hubert no one else has a story of the most important facet 2020 was a huge year. this is probably the most consequential chain of events. the 2020 riots, congratulations on your first book. not just for writing this really recording the truth and speaking the truth no matter where it

takes you. you follow the truth we are proud to have is part of our family at town hall. you are really incredible so thank you. thanks for having me. but on saturday, from president donald trump will headline day three of the conservative political action summit in dallas, texas bird watch live coverage starting at 4:45 p.m. eastern on c-span pay to spend now, our free mobile video app or online at c-span.org. >> an update now on the democrats healthcare and climate change bill known as the inflation reduction act of majority leader schumer announced lawmakers will begin work on it started with the vote to officially begin debate. if approved the weekend isn't tempted to be full of votes unlimited amount of final passage potentially early monday morning. all boats including final only require a simple majority. meanwhile majority leader hoyer has put members on notice the house will be called back into

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