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tv   Linda Colley The Gun the Ship and the Pen  CSPAN  August 30, 2022 6:56am-8:00am EDT

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>> hello and welcome everybody welcome to tonight's conversation that are here to discuss the new book i will
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just hold it up for a second and has already been recognized as a piece in the new yorker that i saw yesterday and i will introduce my guest i want to give a quick shout out and that's a great help to get the word out. and then to important buttons at the bottom of your screen one is a link to buy a copy
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and you can get 10 percent off on your entire order and to put that information in the chat and then there is a nascar question button a place to put your questions as you think of them i will take the chat down with you feel encouraged to that will help us to make sure we leave enough time for the q&a.
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so if there were a nobel prize history and she would be my nominee. in upset. so just a few brief biographical details. with a professor of history here at princeton will list all of her claims that but really it is still at work
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with her new book. but then the ordeal elizabeth marsh we know her as an expert explorer him the edge of empire from 1860s my copy just arrived late
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last week but i will say this is abundantly clear throughout the between aspiration and achievement, how is it the constitution which is documented so deeply associated with emancipation rights, how is it basil often producing times in tandem with imperialism and work environment we learned that's not a paradox as it is a problem. linden also reminded us that constitution and they tell the story about a nation of people. to pull up some of the threads of the many varied stories and their underlying themes.
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welcome. >> go ahead. now maia i will just duct out and that the two of you take it away. >> hello audience it is lovely to see you here and have a chance to celebrate this achievement between the ship and the pen. first i should alert the audience to the fact that she mentioned that this is a book that is truly global the greatest global history being used to refer the history that takes on board more than one place but between the suburbs of the history of the island and japan and russia and united
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states and south america and this is a truly global history. with the politics and ideas and people and practices on multiple sales. i'm hoping some of that will become clear to the audience. i'm going to kick things off by asking you, when you first the history of the constitution. the first two words in the title were tongue and ship. this became a history about something well beyond competition. can you tell us how a book about constitution became a book as well about were untrained war.
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it takes time to work out what your writing i wanted it to be a series of things. constitution goes back a long way in different societies that i wanted to trace the take all from about 1750 where you get different competition that is mass-produced and they start spreading out it accidental rate across the continent. i want you to explain the story and tell what happened. i quickly realized that i could not tell the story without war. war in many ways is more important in this story of a revolution and war of revolution. the other thing was to take
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constitution out of the rather narrow compartmentalized in which they would often get. when i started this project until people, constitution, that is interesting. i wanted to take them out. i wanted to look at more than -- [inaudible] >> there were many, many ways in which you unsettle the stereotype that most americans carry around about constitution. perhaps foremost the reverence
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of the constitution and the books with many different angles and one thing i'm struck by can you imagine a book about constitution that would have. you give us catherine the great setting out to write a new order. can you tell us a little bit about who is your picture of constitution, where will the beginning why those people and what were their names and getting involved in the writing of the constitution. >> as my access suggest i'm an outsider. it doesn't have a coat about
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constitution. the one level has a very exotic document. but i also didn't have that reference and also in the 1750s but i also what happens in philadelphia in 1787. >> within issues of gender. i really wanted to not just talk about how women were excluded from the constitution but also to get a female actor in
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catherine great was wonderful production that she composes in the 1760s which is published in 70 languages. which is a marvelous example. she is such a great character. i'm very pleased because even today it's written about an offensive in media and very much in regards to not so private life. i also wanted to bring her into the story. it is someone thinking about
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before 1776. >> she is also interested in the constitution and reflect an american cliché not in particularly inclined to democracy in any way shape or form it's an american assumption that constitution goes with republican democracy and expansion of horizon into one. there are many to reinforce the power. i was particularly struck in this regard by your portrayal of napoleon of a figure in the history of constitution. i wonder if you could tell us a little bit about the role of constitution and frankly the historical rule. >> i would have to say, many of
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my american friends if i shock i apologize, i do think many of them then in philadelphia and 1787 would see themselves as democrats. not in regards of women or black and not in regards of indigenous people or poor white male in some cases. democracy -- but why did i want the empire. the ideas that constitution are overwhelmingly to do with the public, they can't be because certainly after the first world war most states outside the americas.
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they are using constitution in the same way. napoleon does so with great calculation. i really enjoyed watching about napoleon who loved writing it and by issuing and sometimes writing the constitution for his european conquest. he's quite happy to get them mailed democracy if that's what they want, not women, religious
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correlation. it is the manpower and the connection of the constitution. >> just outside of our conversation the 1760s is a natural place to start, this is an era of global world, who gets the benefits from these kinds of things, after all were has been going on for a very long time. they are not absolutely new england has experimented with its own written constitution in
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the 1650s paradoxically. what does making them work more around the 18th century, i think two things first of all you can use these documents in any way. you are not just issuing and nobody never really knows that they are there they can be read and reproduced in newspapers and stuck on walls and much easier ways of communication but in addition we have various pressures, as they say at one level they are wanting to raise more taxes, to begin to think
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how they can do that in the constitution we will give you more males more white but in return we will expect taxation. the also you are getting pressure from the left and that intrigues me to. as an example of that the only job that campaign managers hold onto is as a tax collector we collect taxes in england. as collecting taxes we begin to
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develop and this is another way that war, taxation, demands are feeding into the lives of the constitutional, pain begins to say if we limit -- not that they're just giving taxes and making a fight. the organization of the state affects more of us and therefore we should control the exercises now. >> another great figure and pledged a role in the book is jeremy benton and another clicée is about constitution and the english-speaking role as in
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regard to liberty and can't just have a written constitution and how wonderful i is this in a set of dimensions. as you show the british and the participants of the constitution none more so than benson, where does one fit into the global constitution. >> london is really important, particularly in america and the tens and 20s. partly because london is so vast it's a bigger city on the globe by 1920 has the most advance networks in the most advance
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toward network. if you are a revolutionary or apolitical exile, one very obvious thing is to come to london. where there isn't much of peace for this stage, and not all the british politics alone and also the constitutional rights takes place in london, uc as session of people up to london and beyond. coming to london using the facilities in the transport of information network of the global british empire to carry
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out which opposite get it again. britain is at one level out of the game but very much involved in the game. >> one of the societies that plays a striking role in your account what do we need to know about the island other than locating on the map which i imagine those people -- >> again it's very tiny. it's where the men and female on the tiny island in the south pacific. that is fine but inside the
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1830s you get american waivers landing and they say where is your charter, who do you belong to, can we come? and at that point enable captain arrived in 1830 8 and the constitution. for the first time this constitution which entered into the 1930s gave women the same boat as men. this is quite extraordinary. it also shows how different
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places influence each other and constitutional gain and enable captain and that's part of what he does what he does. there is also the population at this time has a position in gives women dominance and is been experimented. emergence and admixture of
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influences. >> there are many, many ways in whichre constitution are the mes of taking rights away from people in many ways granting rights to some by extension and others deny them to others. and yet you do is show, efforts by nonwhite men or women to assert themselves, how does that sit in with these questions about warfare, empire and the ways in which constitution can be vacant as him for the gathering up a power by states how do these indigenous to use constitution to a different and.
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>> some try and fail the often happens. but sometimes not so much and i set a great example about that what happens in hawaii which is clearly over the 19th century by being taken over by the united states which is what eventually happens. but what the king an hawaii tried to do by issuing a constitution which they first did in 1840 in the constitution after that they use the constitution which is published and issued in different languages and centered around the world to say look here we are an independent state because
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this is a sign we have a constitution. therefore and they spell this out we are not for the taking. we are not here, we have shown we are civilized in modern. and we set up a government and the love of education and printing and what happens in hawaii is quite astonishing. i would say lucky to benefit from great work in hawaii and a
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nationalist movement. and they capitalize on them. >> a great example the states that use a constitution in this way but also for empire building on war is japan. >> yes indeed. japan is increasingly threatened by americans naval power by the 1860s with the restoration and it's a really revolutionary. at the point we see is
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determinedis by japan will have its own constitution eventually implemented in 1889. this is a classic example of a democratic constitution. it is a monte and it's also an empire. as soon japan get this constitution in its past modernizing it before that is starts increasing inflation, starts building up his family, the navy, starts expanding into different parts of the landmasses. japan becomes of anticolonial
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activist, the media and egypt and across the world. in china as we look at the x modern ina some ways and in others successful in war. here's a case of the place that created the constitution that will not last until after the second world war which become an aggressive empire. also anti-colonial because it's seen as an example of multiple
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storms. >> i've been working on the ark geographically to some extent of this book and in many ways during a project on the scale immense learning and dedication in research. it also requires immense discipline of knowing what to keep. i wondered if you could give us some insight into think that you made the choice to keep out and put aside either that you wish you could've included or you're certain everybody's going to ask why you did not include. if you could give us an inside, what else could it be?
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>> well there's so much i could talk more about india i could talk more about german but as you say global history is incredibly difficult. it's fascinating and difficult to do and also challenging. it's also outrageous national preconception. part of the reason for doing it. i suppose that a certain level but suppose it took me ten years and i take this opportunity to thank the university of princeton in an particular the history department because ten years i made myself a complete to many of my wonderful
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colleagues saying can you give me a reading list is it right to say this would i be right to translate that in this way because not only is this the only way this will not work. the more you investigate the emergency across the globe. the more you become dependent on the friends. >> one of the things about global history before. it does spread very widely and one thing about it often to be written through the lens of
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economics cold or hot and diplomacy. it's a little more dramatic to the granular type of history and cultural work. yet you bring this alive withri all kinds of steam and character and personality. in your own research process and thinking and writing. how does that relationship work for you the discovery of the scene orat the character in the captioning of that theme or character to a larger dramatic idea driven concern. you hit a theme and say this must be in the book, this is an animating moment i hope it works. >> again a lot of it is serendipitous, what we come across an example or a wonderful
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character. but there is always a danger which i'm sure i didn't always worry of letting it become out of control. and so i have to work out and organizing his i want to have a sense of commodity because i was so important. i finally decided i would organize the book and chapters each of which begin in place and about people. that is how i did it. the book starts in 1755 in the main chapter starts in tokyo on
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the day of the japanese constitution. but i was determined to bring in people, partly because i was disconnected with getting constitutions out. i wanted to bring up the literal element of the documents. many of the people who were involved in the constitutions and the great example but the main order of the japanese constitution and people who do different kinds of writing, they get things of constitutional documents and they may have other things in the constitution
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of 1851, the mobile constitution. he runs the newspaper and were seeing this again and again, and again. how involved in other forms of writing which i think is important the constitution have not been looked at in a sense -- after all these documents are leading us and also nurturing. >> in certain societies become
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the people might have a household along with shakespeare, the dictionary and whatever it may be. thinking about the genre is very rich. >> my example in the book the 1814 constitution and the second oldest expands. we are encouraged to turn pages of the constitution of the inner wars of the houses both to serve as installation but also the symbolism is extreme, this is a way of domesticating the organization of the state. >> let me ask one more question
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before we turn to the audience who i'm sure have many questions for you. in britain one of the things that help bring together was a combination of things which by the late 20th century were not so much evidence anymore, the empire, the war with france andd anti-policies them into one, sure enough people would follow in many things followed from your arguments in britain. turning to this book i see very much of a counterpart of britain which may be part one to you but the part two of the question famously in the u.s. the reverence for the concert's reluctance to amended.
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the constitution has been amended in the wake of the war into one but now there is an idea, coming back to the world of the work in the writing of the constitution u.s. for almost 20 years. i wonder if you see anything about the present state of affairs in the u.s. that may have implications for the usability of the constitution in the years ahead? >> somebody fascinating questions, i'm not sure quite where to start. i think constitutions, they always have that there are new challenges to the constitution that we get our information from
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the tv rather from. on paper. also they change the idea more men to come up and so forth and so forth, it is not like that anymore. another point i think in regards to the united states and most of it with the last constitution is very difficult to amend in the
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founding father is a mobility and when we compare this with the other constitution and their always changing it. i'm not saying it's necessarily better but it's adaptive to a 21st century world in a way that the u.s. constitution no longer is and i realized in which it can inhibit.
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[inaudible] >> i want to thank both of you for this conversation it's been really wonderful to listenn. inn and i'm glad we got to talk about the craft because it's a rewarding book because of his marriage between places and people and then the ideas. it's quite wonderful. i have a few questions and i will pull from some of them, beginning, before the beginning of this event. >> i am impressed. >> this comes from john nash asking what do you believe a written constitution has advantages over the unwritten constitution as we have here in the uk that is from john and
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britain. >> fair to say the divergence for the written constitution and the unwritten constitution is more rhetorical than real and by the late 19th centuries, many american politicians admit that and say the constitution conversely in another way of telling by the constitution, there are not important. [inaudible]
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in the financial times a week or so ago, many constitutions have that problem they are aware of how intricate enabling sample being able to borrow into the constitution who establish that
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right. next they haven't been bought into a symbol, you have to check it out. >> yeah the modern in your title asking to advocate in critical of the time in itself or if you have family rather than acting in your approach.
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>> that again is a huge theoretical question that i don't know the answer to. i knew the modern world and i know it's almost cliché. constitutions are one-way, constitutions of britain languages to be identified with a model society above all were
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saying no state can be moderate and successful without a constitution. that isn't necessarily true but it's what. [inaudible] that said there are different ways to define what a modern state is. again hawaii tries to do that. none of the things hawaiians look at certain aspects of their aown indigenous as for example female and have them sitting in
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the upper house while also say we have a written constitution. you can see they don't realize it away we do sometimes realize both things on the work of the constitution and again, trying to work out and also in their own way. >> yes, the question is
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surprisingly i want to say with the general one for another moment which picks up on the o point that the constitution democracy don't necessarily handle, define systematic differences in the relationship of the war in the constitution and upper raisin citizens complaint, define nondemocratic. >> nondemocratic. >> less responsive of rights? >> i'm not sure i fully understand the question. i think it is important, nowhere
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is democratic and 18th centuries. but clearly there are parts of the world and constitutions like china with constitution making but i'm not sure. >> but leave it at that there's
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a follow-up question that we will ask. in the meantime we will go to an advocate of constitution and the question is there surprised to find the constitution is an empire influenced by several constitutions. in constitutions of a conservative more democratic. >> in particular. >> this is one more of the
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things that is part of a trend in thehe market state because wt can we do in this introduced itt own constitutional over the place. we cannot turn the clock now. many say it's okay what we do it's the start of 1814 and many of the germans and they broke the constitutions very much can
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collect it very small they may make religious concessions but these are modest documents saying is not a constitution. these are volatile. >> something that invites us to think about the constitution. [inaudible] >> lots of people with this
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constitution, sometimes in china because they want to have a change and i think it's very clear the chinese revolution will never happen because of the constitution they initially thought at the end of the 19th century they make various steps, that is one kind of way. but there is also because of the constitution of where the move should be you can find in the bible which basically says.
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the instability that is happening something that is internalized that we know with greater stability than what they call the constitution.
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in stable and counterfeit in the argument is much better for them. >> and i ask another questionitf my own. i was wondering and thinking about the debate that goes into the writing of the constitution. i was glad to remember that the american constitution of independence does not mention. i wonder how prevalent god is in the constitution and if that is one of the points of common debate?
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>> god tends to be more covered in capitalist constitutions. in the big change here is the constitution which is created and becomes an influence on many south americans that emerge in the public. but it's also translated into arabic. the maker of the constitution includes a large number. they are determined while it they are getting a written constitution this constitution will not endanger the government
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of the catholic church and will not endanger the souls so it's written very formally in the constitution and many constitutions across the world that you see after the first world war not necessarily the irish constitution in the 1930s. again this is a very catholic constitution.
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>> it is most inspired your writing? >> i suppose i got sucked into global history by a lot of influences. but like lots of people i was very much impressed like global history of the 19th century in a different global history of the 19th century and i also determine the difference of the history which i try to do. >> you right in your book and i
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just want to thank you for the sour that we had together into think everyone i want to invite you you can find is on her website or you can also follow us. i wish that i could keep pouring a glass of wine. i hope you will pour yourself one, both of you, all of you and stay healthy, stay well. >> if you are enjoying booktv sign up for the newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive a schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions, book festivals and more. booktv every sunday on c-span2 or anytime online at,
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