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tv   House Oversight Committee Meets to Consider Its Rules  CSPAN  February 1, 2023 8:09am-10:00am EST

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companies and more including charter communications. >> charter is broadly recognized as one of the best internet providers, and we're just getting started. building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. >> charter comnications supports c-span as a public service, along with these of the television providers, giving a front-row seat to democracy. >> the house oversight and accountability committee has adopted a new rules package for the 118th congress by a partyline vote of 25-19. the new rules include putting an end to virtual participation in public hearings from members and witnesses. and the creation of five new subcommittees. this runs about an hour and 50 minutes. [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> without objection, the chairman is authorized to
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declare a ama recess of the committee at any time. i want to welcome everyone to the organizational meeting of the committee on oversight and accountability, the committee i believe will be the most exciting and effective committee forl this congress. we are going to be returning this committee to its core mission, and that is to ensure that taxpayer dollars are not being mismanaged, abused, or wasted. to shine a light in the darkest of the federal bureaucracies of corruption. to make sure federal government is working efficiently for the american people can't. for this meeting we will be proceeding as follows, first, ranking member raskin that will introduce our new members. then we will officially adopt the committee rules. to welcome all of our returning members. it's great to have you again this congress. i want also welcome back to the committee chairman mike turner from ohio, congressman gary palmer from alabama, congressman
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kelley armstrong from north dakota, and congressman paul gosar from arizona. lastly, want to welcome our new members to the committee. they hail from all part of our great country. first of all we would go in order of seniority. i want to recognize scott perry from pennsylvania. welcome. william timmons from south carolina. tim burchettna from tennessee. marjorie taylor green from georgia. lisa mcaleenan from michigan. lauren boebert from colorado. russell fry from south carolina. and upholding aluminum from florida. chuck edwards from north carolina. nick langworthy from new york, and eric burleson from missouri. welcome to the oversight committee which again i think you will find is the best committee in congress. we're really glad you all on the
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committee. look forward to working with each in the f village of this congress. y we have a big agenda and we're just going to work really hard and try tog be very effective fr the taxpayers and the american people. without the yield to the distinguished chairman from maryland, ranking member raskin, directors his numbers but first i want to publicly say, mr. raskin, we are alloo for you we know you're going to win this battle. you were in our thoughts and prayers and it's good to see here today. raskin nking member raskin. >> mr. chairman, thank you so much it means a lot to me and i've been ratified to receipts of a kind words of encouragement and 60 from kali temple side of the aisle, and i hope that these expressions of concern and water will become friendship of the year. i i planme to getting through ts thing and beating it and i thank you for your patience and indulgence.. [applause]
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>> and now it's my turn to welcome the members on our side of the aisle, mr. chairman. beginning with eleanor holmes norton who represents the great people of the district of columbia. mr. lynch of massachusetts. mr. connolly of virginia. mr.ll chris murphy of illinois. mr. connell of california. mr. mfume of maryland. ms. kaiser cortes of new york who is our vice ranking member carper this congress. ms. boards. of california. ms. bush, ms. brown and mr. gomez. those of the returning members. ms. brown about, mr. gomez of california, ms. bush of missouri. but from across the country our new f members, mr. chairman, are ms. stansbury, melanie stansbury of new mexico. robert garcia california. maxwell frost from florida. summer league from pennsylvania,
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greg cassara texas, jasmine crockett alsomi from texas to dn goldman from new york and jared moskowitz from florida. mr. chairman, it's hard for me today not to think of my fellow maryland and m my friend elijah cummings who was chairman and ranking of this committee not so long ago. allies you recruit me to and taught me that central purpose of this committee, our job is to make government to serve not an opportunity for greed and self-enrichment, not as a violator of the rights to liberties of the people but rather as the protector of the rights and liberties of the people, and alwaysof be effectie and efficient instrument of the common good, the greatest good for the greatest number of americans we can serve every single day. take this duty seriously and then committed to ensuring with you an effective and efficient government that delivers meaningful benefits to the people that we serve.
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i have taken liberty, mr. chairman, of purchasing out of o my own pocket, i hasten to add, aa copy of tom paine common cens for every member of this committee, republican or democrat. the pamphlet that launched the revolution, because what we need to proceed and succeed in this committee is common sense to use our five senses and our reasonable to make sure that we're vindicating the public interest that our constitution exists for, so that will be coming to everybody's office this week. and we pledge to work closely with you in the days ahead and wherever we can find grounds for bipartisan work in collaboration. collaboration. we will pursue an obviously we will be standing up for the constitution, for the bill of rights, and for the laws of the land. i know our staffs have only begun meeting to discuss giveaways the committee can begin a process of collaboration, and i'm
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optimistic will be able to find a good constructive collaborative path forward. i thank you, mr. chairman for your many courtesies and hopee e can work successful together over the next couple of years. happy to yield back. >> thank the ranking member. we will now move tohi consider r committee rules. the rules package before he is substantially the same as last congress with only a few changes. those changes include the following, first, i want to highlight rule six which outlines our new subcommittees and their jurisdictions. through the subcommittees we will were once again focus on the priorities of thee american people. second, we are including a change to allow members of the committee to participate in subcommittee and select committee hearings at the discretion of the chair. lastly, to align our authority will with house rules we make clear a witness can only bring two personal nongovernmental attorneys to the deposition to advise them of their rights.
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before i yield to ranking member raskin i want to thank the ranking member and his staff are providing their feedback to the rules. i know we have had lots of documentation back and forth over the last several days. i knoww we did not come to an agreement on all the suggested edits i know we will be able to find a b bipartisan solution on the items not reflected in the committee rules. with that i yield back to the ranking member first opening statement on the rules. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i have an amendment at the desk. and perhaps while the clerk prepares to report the amendment that i will just say thank you for working with us on the
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rules. much of it, most of that we're able to go along with a we definitely have a few issues that we wanted to race today, and i'm hoping we might be able to work them out. that's the source of the first amendment. >> amendment number one to the rules of the committee on oversight and accountability as offered by representative brascan. >> the amendment considered red. mr. raskin is recognized to explain. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'm offering amendment to strike the provision of rule seven granting the chair that unilateral discretion to allow committee members to participate in the hearings of subcommittees on which they are not members. now, this has been a common and replete practice on our committee, a such authority has historically been granted the unanimous consent requests on both sides. this is a practice u that allows members to enjoy great flexibility and candidly to each other. i am certain that members on
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both sides will not recall a single cookie when anyone has ever objected to waiting somewhat on. so this practice has worked seamlessly and a bipartisan way through decades and there's no need to break from president to centralized this authority in the chair. the danger of course is this authority whether the chair is a democrat or republican will be used to allow certain members to do it and other members not to do it, so we prefer to stick with the unanimous consent practice. this moves to strike that one part. >> with the distinguished rankingg member yield for a second? >> yes. i'm happyg deal. >> i want to join him in supporting this amendment. i havert been on this committee now this is my 15th year under republican chairs, democratic chairs, republican majority,, democratic majorities and we've never ever had a problem in
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unanimously waving somebody on the seeks to participate. and i need to know what the rationale would be for changing the procedure. and so iis just make as we begin the new year, mr. chairman, and mr. ranking member, i think this amendment, adopting put forward would be good faith action on the part of all of us. so i urge adoption and this modification of the rules, and i thank my friend for yielding. >> so, mr. chairman, of looks like there might be some of the members the want to wait in. should i -- i yield back to you and we can go back and forth. >> this rule change only memorializes what's already the case so he could still be used. there's nothing change. he could still be used, just speeds things up with some of
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these, with somebody's committee hearings we don't have to do thatri come disrupt the flow. i'm bound by house rules and i pledge the following. i urge my colleagues to vote no on the amendment, and do any members have further discussion? >> mr. chairman, this is nearly -- so i support the ranking members change so that as a courtesy a new member could be waived on. i yield back. >> recognition? the chair recognizes mr. lynch. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i don't repeat what my colleagues have said that in the past and i been on this committee now this is my 22nd year, and we've always had an
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agreement, gentle minutes or woman's agreementnt between the parties. as you will see during this session and ensure you know, mr. chairman, with the competing activities going on in other hearings is often challenging to get members to come in because they've also got commitments and other hearings. so making the process fluid and generous and bipartisan has really helped the way this committee has worked together ih the past. and so ielhi will help that you would see fit to support mr. askins amendment. i think would be good enough for one party or the other but for the work thatr we are about to embark on here. thank you. >> any other members seek recognition? the question is is on the amendment. all those in favor? all those opposed say no? in the opinion of the chair the no's have it. >> i would like to request a a
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chairman., mr. >> roll call votes will be postponed and the time will be announced in advance. same way we did this last year. i will get this down after about the thirdft vote here. >> mr. chairman? >> the chair recognizes mr. lynch. >> i have an amendment at the desk. >> designate the amendment. >> amendment number two to the rules of the committee on oversight and accountability as offered by representative lynch. >> the chair recognizes mr. lynch. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i i think in the interest of fairness and efficiency this amendment would simply afford the ranking member, the distinguished gentleman from maryland, the same discretion that the proposed committee rules currently are grantedro to thee chairman over member participation on subcommittees and quote of the proceedings.
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in support of this amendment i would underscore granting our chairman the unilateral authority to determine with a committee member maynt participe in oversight committee hearing or additional oversight activities does not align with previous committee practices or precedent during my time on this committee. as previous chairmen and ranking member of the subcommittee on national security for at least the l past eight years i can attest our subcommittee rules and committee rules have not granted our chair such authority under either democratic or republican majorities. in stark contrast we primarily left the question of member participation to our colleagues through bipartisan unanimous consent request to waive interested members onto the subcommittee hearings which have been denied. the weather republican member or democratic member wanted to come in and, look, the oversight committee has unlimited jurisdiction, so oftentimes we have members were on other
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jurisdictional committees that share our interests. the proposed rule regarding member participation also contravenes the fundamental mission of our committee to conduct oversight to identify ways front and abuse and hold government accountable. and also in favor of reform on its behalf of the american people. as recommended by the nonpartisan project on government oversight, congressional oversight is stronger and more credible when it is bipartisan, close quote. so rather than fostering a bipartisan examination of the critical issues facing the american people, and they are considerable. this proposal encourages the partisan selection of which members can be afforded the opportunity to undertake congressional oversight at all. the amendment under consideration would at least ensure that our oversight efforts do not fall victim to partisanship or capriciousness whenor it comes to member participation. i urge my colleagues on both
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sides of the s all to support ts amendment, and i yield back. >> gentleman yields back. here the ranking of his asking for more consideration that is countably under the house rules and, therefore, our committee rules would bese in conflict affected democrat members can still be considered an attitude any subcommittee hearing at the discretion of the chair and upon a request for unanimous consent at anyny hearing. so nothing changes. i urge my colleagues to vote no on this amendment. any other member seek recognition? >> thank you, mr. chairman. the. only problem with the statement you just made is that it does create a change in introducing asymmetry into the rules. and again members should consider this from the perspective of being in both majority of potential being in the minority leader.r. because if an asymmetrical rule is adopted that seems to benefit one team at one point like it will come to disadvantage in the future. in the past becausead we've hada universal unanimous consent
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practice no one has had an incentive to object and nobody understands that that should be approach a bishop of the committee that you should be able to go to various subcommittees. if we centralize the part exclusively in the chair whether that's a republican or a democrat that person will be able to grant it as a matter of course the members of o his or r own party but denied to others or use unanimous consent to a somebodyon lock it in that case. the rules work best when he worked symmetrically and family for anyone. so i like very much the approach that mr. lynch has taken given we seem to be going down this road or if the chair has the power to unilaterally grant a member participation in the subcommittee proceeding, the ranking member should have that same power regardless of whether red or blue is in the majority or in the minority yieldmb back. >> ranking member yields back. again, i pledge to work with the
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ranking member on whomever he deems necessary to be waived in. doesn't change anything. so w any further any further members seek recognition? seeing not, the question is onbe the amendment. all those in favor say aye. all those opposed say no. in the opinion of the chair the no's have it. >> i would request a recorded vote. >> roll call votes p have been requested. they will be postponed andl the time will be announced in advance. are there any more amendments at the table? >> mr. chairman? >> ranked number. >> i have one other amendment. thank you, mr. chairman. this will allow remote participation -- >> i'm sorry. the clerk will designate the amendment. that's three times i willl get t right. the clerk will designate the amendment. >> amendment number three come to the rules of the committee on oversight and accountability as
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offered by a representative >> the chair recognizes the regular. >> thank you kindly mr. chairman. this amendment would simply allow remote participation in community activities for members went in person participation with potentially compromise a member's health. i know there's a desire to have all members in person looking for. i share that desire but that should not prevent members who made need reasonable accommodations in light of extremely exceptional medical circumstances from participating in committee proceedings. for example, if someone has covid-19. s willingnesshe that chairman, has simply to work with members with health conditions to participate. i think it's important we enshrine an exception of w this nature in our rules, and i want all members to participate fully in the committee. no one should bebe prevented frm performingly their duties on behalf of their p constituents e to unavoidable and uncontrollable health conditions, whether it is being
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immunocompromised or having covid-19, or being injured in some way that prevents him or her from coming to work. with that i submit the and meant to you, mr. chairman, for consideration. >> ranking member yields t back. as chairman i would have the discretion to the regional accommodationsso in exact situations like the ranking member just mentioned. and i have said he and i've had several conversations. i will say this publicly. i will doo everything in my ability to work with you to make sure that we can accommodate anything with respect to committee work while you are undergoing treatment. a verymi sympathetic to what you're going through. with members on our side. my mother went through this so we're going to work with you. i've given you that pledge. for example, we make an accommodation that the sentence enableipt interview to ranking member to appear remotely. we will work with you on that, but this amend is not necessary
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or i pledge to continue to work with the ranking member as our have to we demonstrated that in good faith today with the transcribed interview later on today. i urge my colleagues to vote no. does any of the member seek recognition? the chair recognizes mr. connolly. >> i appreciate his accommodation both to the ranking member personally and his pledge to work in the reasonable fashion to accommodate legitimate health needs. but what we are here today is the rule, and the rule is the architecture for the next two years. and we need a rule that assure us that should somebody else be in that chair, we have protection. weha have rights. and so i think the amendment is not unnecessary. i think it in fact, improves things. over 1.5 1.5 million americe succumb to covid-19.
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people have died from this terrible virus. people are terribly vulnerable. people have immune compromised systems and long-term symptoms because of this virus. and so that's not just a nice thing to do if somebody asks for a period and essential thing to do. both for members and for witnesses as we proceed in the committee. i think it's going to be essential, hopefully in the diminishing basis, that we don't know that yet. we've had many, many rounds and many variants of this virus all of them deadly. so i urge we all -- i think the chairman or give me time and i thank the ranking member for his amendment. >> well, i note the chair seems to agree with the underlying
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purpose of the amendment. i think the amendment is necessary, because the congress is so closely divided. because of his close division we don't know whether for partisan purposes they would be a a disagreement or not. i think this is a failsafe amendment that would be important for both sides to have in their pocket. i yield back. [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. chairman. members, i oppose the amendment to rules. august anderson the health conditions of the ranking member, and the chair men's desire to help him with that of a move through this congress. let's be very clear. as a member of this committee in the last congress, there were many members who frankly abused the virtual nature of our hearings.
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they would be in their offices during these hearings and notes here in this realm. and we're going to be touching a lot of critical topics in this congress and attendance is necessary. so i urge my members, , my colleagues to vote down undo us amendment and understanding for the issues that the ranking member casey with his health personally. but this amendment is not needed and i and i back the chairman on this. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i think one of the things that we all want to acknowledge is gratitude for what is to be linked to work to accommodate the ranking member and various conditions that we would have to adapt to. i think the rank member would be one of the first to say this rule is not about him. it's really about the vast majority of, the vast amount of people who encounter disabilities at some point in their life or another.
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the rules here aboutut the rules are the workplace and this rule is in place so it is not up to one individuals discretion to protect the person that may encounter a disability, who may find themselves with the condition such as the ranking member, pregnancy, et cetera. and will to protect individuals based on health outcome should be part of her workplace protection. i think the examples we set here are an example for the country. i extend quite a bit of understanding towards the represent a from florida about making sure we are here, but in the real it states explicitly about extraordinary extenuating health-care related circumstance. and so inte that spirit i would hope would all be able to set that example of protect the millions of people who encounter disabilities, immunocompromised conditions et cetera and i would
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hope we would enshrine the protection not just for the ranking member but for all of us in the rules of this committee. i yield back. >> thank the gentlelady for yielding back. chair recognizes ms. marjorie taylor green. >> thank thank you, mr. cha. i oppose this amendment. g i think it's important for us to all recognize that the white house just announced they a will be calling an end to the covid-19 emergency. so there's no need for us to vote to amend the rules to allow for this. of course we extend our heartfelt prayers and good well wishes to mr. raskin as he's going through cancer treatment come something certainly all of us can understand, and hope the best for him. as far as pregnancy, pregnancy is a wonderful gift for women, and become an mother is a a wonderful thing. it doesn't stop many women from showing up for work.
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so i don't think that should be considered to be a concern of why we need to adopt this amendment that members can't shut up. i think it's important for all members to come andin to be present, as much as they possibly can because we have a job to do for the american people i yield back. >> any further discussion lacks the chair recognizes mr. fallon. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it's great to call you mr. chairman. i oppose the amendment but c c i want, on a a personal level, ranking member, so many of us have lost lovedmb ones to cance. i want you to fight and i want you to win. god bless you. >> gentleman yields back. any further discussion? and again, the chair pledges to work with any member depending
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on the various circumstances. that's been the rule that will continue to be the rule. so if no l6 recognition e question on the amendment, again, i urge my colleagues to vote no. all those in favor say i aye go. all those oppose say no. in the opinion of the chair the no's have it. >> seek a recorded vote. >> roll call vote will be -- is any member seek recognition company for the amendment? >> i have an amendment at the desk. >> the clerk will designate the amendment. the clerk will designate the amendment. we don't havehe the amendment? >> amendment number four. >> we don't have it.
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>> it's at the desk. >> one moment, please. >> amendment number four to the rules of the committee on oversight and accountability as offered by speakers -- >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to first say congratulations to ranking member raskin for his continued leadership and dedication to the committee mr. chairman i want to congratulate you as well. it's been great working with you in the previous congress and i congratulate you also on your new position amendment number four on rules of oversight and ken billy. houseer rule 11 authorizes house committees and subcommittees to issue subpoenas for attendance of witnesses and the production of documents. this amendment will quite simply require a majority vote approval by members of the committee
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authorizing and issuing a subpoena in thess context of meeting investigation or activity within the jurisdiction of this committee. i think we have a real opportunity today to execute strong, bipartisan oversight. and this is a rule, quite frankly, the both democrats and republicans have supported in the past.n mr. chairman, i am particularly pleased that you supported thisi amendment the last time, and we hope today that it will carry. i hope we embrace this sort of moment so that we can show quite frankly the american people and members of congress that we are still prepared in this committee to unite, regardless of our different political beliefs. so i would encourage my colleagues from both sides of the aisle to support the amendment. i think you and i yield back anytime i may have remaining.
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>> gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes himself. congressional subpoenas a powerful to which should be used in limited circumstances. its use as appropriate when attempts to reach an accommodation with the witness are at an impasse, when necessary to obtain certain c sensitivema information such as financial information or window from the subpoena is needed just silly to protect a a witness. in normal course of committee business il hope to work with te ranking member on proposed subpoenas inn advance. the american people have made clear they want this committee to conduct fair and rigorous oversight, and we will do that. that will require this committee to work quickly and efficiently and at times provide less opportunity for debate and markup in order to uncover the truth and the tiniest fashion to i appreciate mr. mfume pointed out that i supported this amendment last congress but you all opposed it. so we just want to keep the rules away that you all had them in the last congress with
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respect to, things change, right? during the past two caucuses democrats have as acid vote against his change and refuse on at least two occasions by written request to vote for a subpoena before it was and if we need to provide that for any fact-finding friends out in the audience we will be happy to do that. with this amendment the ask the committee to change its rules give them rights refuse to republicans when democrats were in charge. as former chairwoman maloney pointed out during our last organization beating, hundreds of subpoenas have been issued under both republican and democrat controlled congresses in this committee without any votes. democrats have provided no valid reason today to depart from this precedent so i post this amendment and urge my colleagues to vote against it. does anyone seek -- chair recognizes mr. raskin. >> mr. chairman, thank you. i rise in support of the gentle bends amendment and it is one of
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the great things about congress changing it as we get to quote each other from the prior congress and mr. chairman, then you did say the subpoena is a powerful tool and notice and consultation are commonsense measures the majority should afford the minority to the fullest extent possible. you are correct and i would point out the majority did not accept that what i i will say tt it were so the going to be on a raceor to the bottom, then the presidenthe was set by the top administration with president trump saidin he would not cooperate with any subpoenas at all in simply shuth down the process and ignored and rejected hundreds of congressional subpoenas.or i don't thinkre we want to go dn that route at a don't think we want to encourage the biden administration to go down that route, slowed encourage a complete recess at this point. let's revolve to do better. let's issue subpoenas together a let's make the subpoenas stick and work by making further administration complies with
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them. i yield back. >> there's any further member seek recognition? mr. connell. >> thank you, mr. chairman. you know, the issue of subpoenas and his committee has a long and sorry history. when dan burton was chairman of the committee he issued hundreds of subpoenas, losing track of who he had subpoenaed as matter of fact. and because he made a mockery of the k process. when tom davis my predecessor and henry waxman kind of switch back and forth as chairman and ranking member they actually sea a model where the genuinely did consult each other and try to cooperate on the issue of subpoenas. why is that important? because from an institutional point of view if we simply proliferate the world with subpoenas, we're going to dilute the importance of that as a tool come as you quickly pointed out,
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mr. chairman. it's a tool that ought to be used sparingly at it ought to have force. i happen to believe that congress ought to revive inherent contempt, enforcing subpoenas institutional it as the but coequal legislative branch of government. that's a fight someday we will i hope revisit. but we want to make sure, i think all of us as members of this committee, that the subpoena has force, that it has meaning, that is as broad support behind it. and hope as we move forward that's the spirit in which a look at subpoenas and issue subpoenas. for the sake of the institution, for the sake of integrity of this committee. i think the chair and ranking member, and i yield back. >> gentleman yields back. recognize mr. session. >> mr. chairman, i do understand the debate that's going on back and forth. with a lot of members here who
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seemingly are also brand-new. back in 1997 and 98 when i sat on this i committee, the gentlen chairman burton was in charge. and was forced into having severall hundred subpoenas. as a matter fact, i remember items to which i was in particular part of with johnny chung, a communist chinese who came to this country to infiltrate our national security, a man who did come in and compromise the clinton administration, a man who compromised c companies, a man o compromised, to use political contributions not just get in the white house but two of the commerce department to allow export of important items of
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national security that dealt directly with rockets and their ability to work off i gyroscope. and it was one of the biggest political important things that dan burton did, the attorney general of the united states chose not to answer questions whenwe almost everybody in her department including u.s. attorney from san diego who was bringing forth the case against johnny chung, , she used her political power to stop those things. national security, things dealing with not just this committee but the entire country needed to know. and so he was forced to issue these three times the attorney general ofor the united states went into the hospital for exhaustion rather than coming to be a a part of what this comme was asking for. so i aware of the games that get played. i'm aware of the things that are
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hidden behind executive privilege andhe other things. i would like to see us as opposed to that now since the shoe is on the other foot to encourage of this administration before threat as we ask things. because this committee, and other committees, have gained knowledge about how to use the power of, not just this committee, but of congress, against donald trump. and if you don't think those things are not going to be expected now when the shoe is on the other foot, we have lost it. so i think that the ranking member and others on your side should use this as a commonality, a stick to avoid what we have to do. i did means that you have to be forthright in this administration, which is an oath of office that you took. so i think that is not lay down your sword and leave yourself defenseless.
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i think it is let's work for common sense. i appreciate the gentleman give me time to express my ideas. >> the gentleman from texas yields back. the chair recognizes the gentleman from pennsylvania mr. perry. >> thank you, mr. chairman. just wanted to observe that now the republicans are in the lead it's not lost on me that suddenly it is become a race to the bottom. that you all find that fascinating. ideas back. >> gentleman yields back. but before the call for a vote, if i may, i'm excited about this new found willingness to work with republicans. so i think that, i think we will have some opportunities, mr. raskin, to work together in the future on subpoenas. the chair recognizes mr. palmer for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman and i congratulate you on your chairmanship, andra mr. raskin s ranking member we worked together before, and you are in our prayers.
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having been on this committee previously and now returning, i think many of us have been on this committee before have been to the process will be issued subpoenas. and also issued evidence preservation orders, particularly involving the obama administration, some of their administrators, andy saw that these subpoenas and evidence privatization orders were not honored. and mr. connolly, the german from virginia, raises an interesting -- gentleman from virginia raises an interesting point about using content as our subpoena power is not honored. i have full confidence that you only issue subpoenas, mr. chairman, judiciously and full confidence that you, mr. chairman, you and your staff will not lose track of any them. that indicates will be to issue subpoenas are in cases where the issue evidence preservation orders which i think it very
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likely be thes case in this committee. i think wee might need an additional tool to ensure that those subpoenasad and those contempt, those evidence preservation orders are complied with, and that we do the duty, the due diligence that this committee is required to do in some of these investigations, that we will most undoubtedly have to engage in over the next couple of years. with that i yieldav i back. >> thank you very much, mr. chair. just a few of the words in support of my amendment. i have heard representative burton may mention a couple of times, and let me just say this about dan. he and and i fought like hea number of issues all through the '80s and halfway through the 1990s. but we tried to find where we could commonality on things that
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didn't push us and push the congress in the wrong direction. in fact, we got in one argument and in front d of president rean who jokingly said will, can it take you guys out and buy you an ice cream cone and get you to agree? dan and i, we had strong differences, very, very strong differences of opinion, but at the day i thought where you could make a commonsense argument, you could win over his support. and he thought what he could make a commonsense argument he could win over mine.e and so when i look up at the portrait of elijah cummings hanging here, i'm reminded that elijah always said we can do better than this. and mr. chairman, you are absolutely right about the last congress. you voted to have this sort of amendment in place, and the majority ruled in that instance, i think the majority may have been misplaced in its support.
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but having said all of that, this provides us with a fresh opportunity not to turn left or to turn right, but to go ahead together as a committee, recognizing if not then, who knows, two years from now we might be back in the same position with someone on thehe other side making the argument for this amendment. life is too short for that and i think more than anything else when it comes to subpoena for witness and documents that there ought to be at least where we can provide it, a symbol of unity, assemblers of bipartisanship so the democrats and republicans are, in fact, agreeing on those subpoenas. so it ask people just to kind of keep that in the back of your mind. someone used the term reset. i think that's the perfect word for this situation. we can reset the clock now and startow moving in the right direction, or we can continue in the path we are going, which as
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both the ranking member and the chairman said is a back-and-forth sort of seesaw on whoever controls the gavel. i yield back. thank you. >> the chair recognizes mr. biggs. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i am fascinated on this desire for freshness, this desire for reset, having wandered through these halls for some period of time. what this rule is without the amendment is not dissimilar from what we see in the judiciary chair, andat that happens, and we've been content with that. we've lived with that. we know how it works. and, quite frankly, we know how it works in here because that's what my friends across the aisle, having engaged in for the last four years this is nothing
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unusual. the notice, the notion that this is going to provide unity if we adopt this amendment is almost laughable on its face. that it will provide a written, secretary of state clinton-russian reset moment is also laughable. the reality is we have disparity here. we view the world differently. where we can find accommodation, we should and we will, but there is nothing unique, , bizarre, or out of the order on the current underlying rule that we are going to be voting on. and so to say that we must have this freshness, this reset, basically saying well, now that
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you have control, we don't want you to treat us the way you have treated us. you don't want to be treated the way you have been treating us. and you are saying please, please have mercy of the reality for me is, the pendulum may have begun real far to the left, it will swing back to the right and ultimately will find equilibrium and equilibrium will, as defineg but this amendment does not begin to do what i think you're telling me it's going to do, and so i irredeemably oppose it. >> with a gentleman yield for ten seconds? >> i've already yielded back but then i'm happy to yield to. >> i just want to set the record straight. i'm not saying please, please have mercy. [laughing] >> no, no.
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i'm a fighter. that's noto what i'm saying. i'm s saying please, please lets try to correct a wrong. >> fair enough. thank you. and i appreciate that. and if anybody in this committee are fighters, that's why we on this committee. that's part of the reason we love being on this committee. we are fighting for what we truly believe is the best direction for the country. yield back. >> gentleman yield back. the chair recognizes the gentleman from georgia, ms. green. >> i really appreciate the sentiments of i bipartisanship. i think that's what is missing in congress but i would also like to remind the committee thati after two years of a very heavy controlled hand here in congress and on committees where republicans didn't have a voice, i am particular had no voice having no committees being stripped n of them by our former
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speaker and democrats in congress. i think it's also important to point out that as far as subpoenas are concerned and bringing up president trump and how his family has been treated by democrats, erica trump in particular has been subpoenaed over 400 times and has never broken a law. so i think, i think subpoena power is extremely important, but i oppose this amendment because the democrats have proven what to do with subpoena power especially with the january 6th committee. and i think can trust republicans on this committee and our new chairman jamie comber to do a great job with it. i yield back. >> gentlelady yields back. the question is on the amendment. amendment. all those in favor say aye. all although suppose say no. in the opinion of the chair the no's have it. >> recorded vote please. >> recorded what has been requested. roll call votes will be postponed and the temple be
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announced. >> i have an amendment at the desk. >> the clerk will designate thee amendment. >> mr. amendment number five,s offered by representative porter. >> the chair recognizes representative porter. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i moved to offer this amendment or subcommittee rules are consistent with the house rules that we just enacted. this amendment would set for a simple, clear process for the chair to determine when it's appropriate and if it is appropriate for nongovernmental witness to appear remotely. before i was served in congress i was a witness before congress many times, and it is difficult for people of regular means, people in rural areas, people
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from tribal communities to be able to travel here to washington, often on very short notice and always at the personal v expense. .. the halls of congress need to be filled with the voices of regular americans. americans who are living and experiencing the very problems the great challenges we are trying to do oversight. this should not be a committee room for the voices of lobbyists again and again and again are heard and heard loudly >> to allow everyday americans from modest means, indigenous areas, people with disabilities can't travel when the chair appropriate remotely. this is entirely consistent with the republican rules enacted. the chair in his discretion may exercise that authority clearly. >> the gentle lady yields back. as i said before i pledge to house rules, in fact, i'm
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boyfriend by them to take all steps necessary for permission for a witness to appear remotely. the house provides for witnesses to appear remotely for accommodations for this. i don't believe in my other friends on the other side of the aisle is necessary. >> thank you, kindly. i would hope that this would be a common sense moment universally adopted as completely consistent with and following through on the rules of the house itself. the amendment ensures that the public is not robbed of essential testimony from people across the country, oftentimes we talk about wanting the voices of america to be heard here, this is precisely the way to do it. it protects equal access to the right to testify to ensure at that witnesses are not barred from participation by distance
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for money or travel delays or whatever might be the circumstances beyond their control. it's common sense and i hope we can all endorse it. i yield back, mr. chairman. >> ms. thornton? >> i support this amendment, again, i call to the attention of the committee that the congress is evenly divided so it will make a difference, often, that such a member be able to vote remotely and i strongly support this amendment. >> mr. chair. >> chair recognizes ms. porter. >> i just want to clarify the amendment does not permit voting remotely. the amendment at the desk is to allow nongovernmental witnesses who would otherwise have to potentially travel to this committee on short notice to be able in the chair's discretion
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to appear remotely. so it does not affect our duties. it's about lifting up the voice of the full swath of the american people. >> and i will do everything in my ability. if someone-- if you have a witness that demonstrates they don't have the financial means or whatever to be able to appear in person, then we will work with them any way we can to accommodate and take that on a case by case basis, that's my pledge. i don't think this amendment is necessary. any other member seek recognition? >> no one else speaks recognition. all those in favor say aye. all those opposed. no, in the opinion of the chair the no's have it. any other member seek recognition. >> and a roll call and it will be announced in advance. >> any other amendments? >> mr. chair, i have an amendment at the desk.
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>> the clerk will recognize the amendment. >> amendment number six to the rules on the committee of oversight offered by representative crockett. >> the chair recognizes ms. crockett. >> thank you, this amendment would restore the civil rights and civil liberties subcommittee that's been a vital part of this committee's work in the past four years, in light of the tragedy this past weekend and the restoration of the civil rights subcommittee would show the american people what the committee stands for whether we will waste time and money on fishing expeditions or holding those who violate the civil and human rights of our constituents accountable because under the current rules package if one of our constituents has a civil rights violated or curtailed this committee offers no place for them to turn. the rules written sent a message to the american people that their civil rights and
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liberties are no longer a priorities in the 118th congress as they have been in the past sessions of coping. i know each of us regardless of our political backgrounds believes earnestly in the civil rights and liberties why would we turn a blind eye to their violation, across the nation small towns to big cities, americans are crying out against the horrible injustice perpetrated against tyre nichols and so many others. it's undeniable the civil rights of people are under threat and this committee must do something about it. our congress has a proud legacy conducting history making investigations that rally the nation to its most humane resolution. in 1871 less than two years after the passage of the 15th amendment, guaranteeing the right to vote regardless of race, the ku klux klan used domesticic terrorism to infringe on the new right to
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vote. and other times kkk were vigilantes in 1870's, local officials of all stripes took part in this vile organization. in the face of this brazen attack on american civil rights, the congress rolled up its sleeves and conducted real investigatory oversight producing over a 10-month investigation 13 pages of reports. the findings of that investigation were the cornerstone after which great struggle, the landmark civil rights act of 1875 was built. as the committee charged with oversight and accountability this is the legacy that we inherited and owe it to the american people to live up to it. when over 100 people are losing their lives in routine traffic stops. over a dozen large police departments are operating under consent decrees for violations of their citizen's civil liberties and when the attention of a nation is focused on the issue of civil rights, it's our duty to rise to the occasion and conduct oversight and provide
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accountability on this crucial subject and not shrink from the shared responsibility. without this amendment that's what passage of the current rules would do. one might argue that the government options and the right venue to address the issues accepting that argument only gives more reason for concern and the five clauses concerning the jurisdiction of the committee compromised themselves of 18 identified subjects, only one of way could be construed to be used to investigate the tragic circumstances of the death of tyre nichols. the current rules package as over one of a dozen charges of that subcommittee when upholding america's civil rights to be one of the core functions of this committee. it is a question of values, a question of legacy, a question of justice. let us live up to the legacy of this committee. let us show the american people that we hear them and fighting
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for them and let us restore the subcommittee on civil rights and civil remedies. i urge passage and with that, i yield back. >> the gentle lady yields back, let me be very clear, any topic that's not mentioned in the subcommittee jurisdiction is reserved for the full committee so we can have a committee hearing in this committee on basically anything we want. i know there are a lot of new members on the committee so i just want to go back in history a little bit. i requested, with chairman maloney, i had a lot of respect for and i think even the members on the other side of the aisle that were on the committee last year would agree we had a very good working relationship. i worked-- we worked together not just maloney and i, but several members of this committee on bipartisan legislation, despite what the media says, there's a lot of bipartisan work that takes place in this committee and there could be a lot more. last year, chairman maloney and i and mr. connolly worked and
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mr. lynch worked together to pass what i think was the most significant bipartisan bill last year in congress. so, the postal reform bill and we'll ask postmaster lajoie to give what improvements need to be made what improvements are made which we have jurisdiction on over here. and chairman mace and ro khanna worked on bipartisan bills and former ranking member hice worked on many bills out of this. there were some bipartisan successes on this committee, but i requested several committee hearings to chairwoman maloney that would have been and should have been
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bipartisan. we were very interested and very concerned about how some of the covid funds were being spent. but we never had a committee hearing like we're going to have tomorrow to examine the covid spending, i know covid select, a different committee had hearings, but this oversight committee never had a single hearing on that and we were concerned about the origination of covid i know there's a select committee, but there was a little separation between this committee and the select committee. i hope we're closer and i'm confident we'll be closer next year. i wasn't on the select commission, the chairman as ex-official on that committee and i think we'll be working next year-- or this year than last year. i requested a hearing with the f.d.a. to look at the cbd oil, that we're all over the board on this. there's people that support, you know, cbd oil, hemp dried
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products. there are people that oppose it on both sides of the aisle. that's something that we should have done and could have done, but she refused and then the last one and most baffling to me, something that we'll definitely have very soon in this committee, we wanted a bipartisan hearing on the pbm, the pharmacy benefit managers we had. several hearings in the committee on prescription drug pricing, but never touched on things i think there's an area with bipartisan port, do you agree, ms. porter, on pbm's in this committee. i think there's going to be a lot of opportunities to work together and opportunities where we will disagree, but i do believe there will be a lot of opportunities to work together if there are hearings that my friends on the other side of the aisle are interested in having that would have bipartisan support, i'm very open to that and we're going to meet a lot in this
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committee. so, are' going to have to work hard to be on this committee. we're going to have a very active subcommittee process. any topic that's not mentioned in the names or the subcommittee jurisdiction is reserved for the full committee. so i don't believe this amendment's necessary and i urge my colleagues to vote against it does any other member seek recognition. ranking member. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank you for that expression of openness to having hearings on a whole range of matters that would bring us together as a committee in interesting ways and i very much appreciate that sensibility that you have brought to the job and i'm glad that we are, indeed, going to begin on covid-19 relief and abuses on that, and something we were aggressive on the select subcommittee, but
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delighted that the oversight committee will take it up. having said that i do want to strongly support the gentle lady's amendment the gentle lady from texas who is a civil rights and constitutional lawyer, distinguished in her field raises the important point that we had a civil rights civil liberties subcommittee which just seems to have vanished under the rules and with mr. cummings looking down on us i feel the obligation to stand in defense of this subcommittee which i was the first and i guess the only chair up until this point. i got to serve with ms. mace from south carolina as the ranking member. we did terrific bipartisan work in at that subcommittee on civil rights and civil liberties, but there's an important point that makes this something far more than a semantic issue being raised by the gentle lady from texas. mr. cummings was always adamant
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there were two major purposes for the oversight committee, one is to make sure that the laws and programs that congress adopts actually go to the benefit of the people that they're intended for and not siphoned off in waste and self-enrichment and corruption and forms of fraud and abuse, but the other purpose is to make sure that the government is always respecting the rights and freedoms and civil liberties of the people in the conduct of its operations. and so, the gentle lady raises an important point about our structural focus as a committee, our subcommittee was able to look at things that brought us together across partisan lines, including certain kind of abuses in the bar on drugs, the treatment of marijuana, governmental seizures forfeitures and we
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looked at extremist violence led by dangerous extremists in the country and we had that before it overcame congress in the capitol january 6th, 2021. i strongly support the gentle lady and yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. recognize ms. green. >> ms. crockett, i agree with you on tyre nichols' death and i watched the video and difficult to watch and that city is democrat control and the five officers arrested and charged are black and i think that this isn't an issue of racism or anything like that. he think that the judge and the jury in the trial needs to work out what happened there, but i share that with you, but i'd like to also point something that i'd hope you'd share with
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me. there's a woman in this room whose daughter was murdered on january 6th, ashley babbit, and ashley babbit has-- there's never been a trial. as a matter of fact nobody has cared about the person who shot and killed her and no one in congress addressed that issue, the january 6th committee didn't address it and i believe that there are many people that came into the capitol on january 6th whose civil rights and liberties are being violated heavily and this committee will, i hope, mr. chairman, look into the civil rights abuses because they're happening in a jail right here in this city and i hope miss norton will care about that as well. and as well as jails across the country. i've been in that jail and it's not just the january 6th defendants pre-trial, by the way, it's many of the inmates in there living in horrific conditions. so i think that is something that you and i can care about.
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>> will the gentle lady yield for just a moment. >> no, i will not yield. but i would like to say and point out that civil rights and liberties are important, but we have to make sure to crackdown on the two-tier justice system. i'll yield back my name. >> the gentle lady yields back further. seeing none, the question is on the amendment. all those in favor say aye. >> all those opposed say no. in the opinion of the chairs the nos have. >> request a recorded vote, mr. chairmanments requested vote, roll call votes will be postponed and vote announced in nance. >> any other amendments? >> mr. chair, i have an amendment. >> the clerk will designate the amendment. amendment number seven in the rules on oversight accountability by representative donalds.
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the chair recognizes mr. donalds for five minutes. what we've been doing is what we've been doing under the rules of the committee. for the freshmen here, people have watched committees, obviously for my colleagues here for a very long time. the process of congress has been seniority recognition and members come in by seniority. recognized five members and not all members, but a lot of members do leave at the end of five minutes. when you have witnesses in the room what you witness there is no dialog in congress there's a back and forth with witnesses in the room and no broader discussion in the committee. my rule change what it would provide for all members to be recognized through the chair so that the members at their discretion when they want to engage in dialog would go through the chair. you wouldn't be constrained to simply your five minutes, you
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would have an ability to engage in dialog, whether it's with the witness directly that says something later in discussion that you want to come back and circle around and speak to or to even have dialog through witnesses with members on the other side of the aisle. this rule change actually facilitates in debate something i found as freshman we do little of in committees. this rule change will help our committees be more efficient in time. instead of structured in five minute blocks where obviously we have many staff members in the room where the staff write our commentary to five minutes, it would give us the ability to get to the point and sometimes instead of needing five minutes you only need two or maybe even one. the third thing that would do, we have issues with government officials who do have to come before this committee and sometimes their time is limited so what this amendment will
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provide for is the ability for their time to be respected and for the members of the committee, some of course who have less seniority, you freshman, have the ability to engage with members before they have to leave because some of them only two hours or three hours. that's the structure of the amendment, mr. chairman. now, i will also had that i'm aware there are members on my side of the aisle who have concerns about this members because we are in a process structure our days and times, based on when we come in and come out. many have committees that meet at the same time. another issue structure. house that should be changed sore my colleague on the other side in florida, we know how it works, you schedule your committees in blocks so members can be where they need to be. because it's something new to congress and i think this is something that congress does need, but also to respect the discretion of our chair, my hope is that the chairman would work with us all to try to make sure that we facilitate more,
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because we are going to touch many topics that require the debate of members through witnesses instead of speechphying to the witnesses for clips and reels and that stuff and making sure they're working effectively and officially. i'm going withdraw my amendment, but not just in this congress awe evolution of congress in years to come. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> the gentleman fields back and i may respond. i'll work with you on that. i agree with what you're saying and we'll make every accommodation possible to do exactly what you just said there, so any other members seek recognition on amendments? >> seeing none, we are going to recess until 12:30 and then we'll have those votes at 12:30 and we'll try to get through this as quickly as possible, we
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want to be very efficient and respectful of your time. we'll have 10 minutes to gather everybody up for votes or 11 minutes and votes promptly at 12:30. recess. the xhoo it is -- the committee is now in recess. [inaudible conversations] >> it's now in order to take up the postponed recorded votes. a recorded vote has been requested for amendment raskin's number one. the clerk will call the roll. [roll call]
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#, [roll call] [roll call] [roll call]
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[roll call] [roll call] [roll call] >> are there any other members that haven't recorded their vote. >> mr. chairman, how am i
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recorded? >> how is mr. la turner is recorded. >> mr. la turner is not recorded. >> i vote no. >> mr. la turner votes no. will the clerk report the tally. >> the vote is 23 in favor, 19 opposed. >> i think it's wrong-- >> my apologies, 23 no's, 19 yes. >> all right, the amendment failed. a recorded vote has been requested for raskin's amendment number two, the clerk
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will call the roll. [roll call]
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[roll call] >> does any other member seek to be recognized to vote? if not the clerk will report the tally. 23 no's-19 yeses. >> the amendment fails. so a recorded vote has been requested for the lynch amendment. the clerk will call the roll. [roll call]
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[roll call] >> how has mr. birchet been recorded? >> he is not recorded. >> mr. birchet votes no. >> mr. birchet votes no. has any other member not been recognized for vote? the clerk will please report the tally.
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>> 23 no, 19 yes. >> the amendment fails. now the recorded vote has been requested for the amendment, the clerk will call the roll. [roll call]
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[roll call] >> how is mr. jordan been recorded? >> mr. jordan has not been recorded. >> mr. jordan votes no. >> has mr. fallin been recorded? >> yes, mr. fallin votes no. any other members seek recognition? seeing none the clerk will record the tally. >> 24 no's-19 yes. >> the amendment fails. a recorded vote has been requested for the porter amendment. the clerk will call the roll. [roll call]
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>> does any other member seek recognition to vote? seeing none, the clerk will report the tally. >> 24 no, 19 yes. >> the porter amendment fails. the recorded vote has been requested for the crockett amendment. the clerk will now call the roll. [roll call]
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[roll call] >> how has mr. perry been recorded? >> mr. perry is not recorded. mr. perry votes no. >> any other members not been recorded? seeing none, the clerk will please report the tally. >> 24 no's, 19 yes. >> the crockett amendment fails. since we've concluded our votes
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on the amendments, i move that the proposed rules be adopted as rules of the committee on oversight and accountability for the 118th congress. all those in favor say aye, all those opposed say no, in the opinion of the chair the ayes have it and the proposed has been adopted. >> could we have a recorded vote. >> a recorded vote has been requested, will the clerk please call the roll. [roll call]
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[roll call] >> does any member need to vote? everybody voted? will the clerk please report the tally? >> 24 yes, 19 no. >> the rules are adopted and without objection the motion to reconsider is laid on the table. pursuant to house rules, the rules adopted by the committee on oversight and accountability for the 118th congress will be published and in the congressional record made
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available to the members and public on the committee's website. before we conclude the meeting, i want to yield to mr. raskin for closing remarks. >> thank you very much. i want today return, our staffs have been working on bipartisan agreements outlining how we'll jointly handle issues, whistle blowers protection, committee to not investigate each other's staff, our security clearance policy and several other such items. the agreement takes committee precedent is intended to facilitate bipartisan cooperation, transparency and fairness so the committee can conduct its mission as efficiently and effectively in as united way as possible. i hope we can continue our productive conversation and appreciate your continuing thoughtful consideration in this regard and i yield back. >> i just love this new-found willingness for bipartisanship. i think we're going to get
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along just fine. so this concludes today's organizational meeting. without objection, committee staff are authorized to make technical and conforming changes to reflect the action of the committee and adopting the resolution and our rules. without objection, our committee stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations] >> thursday, president biden speaks at the 71st annual national prayer breakfast along with congresswoman lucie mcbath and wahlberg. watch on c-span2, the c-span app or >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, we're funded by these companies and more, including comcast.
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>> do you think this is just a community center? no, it's way more than that, comcast is partnering with a thousand community centers to create wi-fi enabling listening so students from low income families can get the tools they need for ything. comcastupports c-span as a public service along with these providers giving awe front row seat to democracy. >> on this wednesday morning, the u.s. senate about to gavel in for member speeches. off the floor work continues on an organizational resolution setting committee assignments for the 118th congress. and now live to the floor of the u.s. senate here on c-span2.


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