tv Ten Commandments of Presidential Leadership CSPAN October 31, 2016 12:01am-1:01am EDT
favorite bookseller. interviewing presidential presidential historians, talmage boston created 10 commandments for presidential leadership. next, he discusses them and provides examples of presidents who excelled at each one. he is the author of "cross-examining history: a lawyer gets answers from experts about our presidents. the denver forum hosted this hour-long event. >> our guest is a big-time texas attorney. a major source in the legal community. he wrote two books on baseball, really wonderful books. he came to us to speak about one of those books and has been here in the past. he then wrote a book about james baker, a significant book.
his new book is about leadership, and leadership at the presidential level. if ever there was a time in our political history we need to understand what that means, it seems to have been greatly confused this election year. i love this guy. i love his wife and they have wonderful kids. he is just a great texan, which means that he is a great american. please welcome talmadge boston. [applause] talmage: the good evening. thank you, george. thank you, denver forum. i am on the board of the council of dallas-fort worth.
one of the best things about having a book out is getting in front of councils all over the country and see that they carry on this mission of adult education as well as reaching out to the students. thank goodness we have organizations like this because they make our world a better place. we are less than one month away from november 8, election day. when our country will finally be put out of its misery and we will choose who will become the 45th president of the united states. many of you already know who is getting your vote, although there may be some who are undecided. the polls reflect that there are people still undecided. the choice this year is, shall we say, complicated.
both of them have negative approval ratings, which means that most people are not voting in favor of a candidate, rather voting against a candidate. the good news is i am not going to tell you who to vote for. i not going to say anything good or bad about either candidate, because that would cut off half of my book sales. [laughter] i will try to provide some food for thought, that something new and substantive for you to chew on. you probably heard that most people love history for two reasons. the first is because it shows us how much things change. the second is because it shows us how much things stay the same.
one of the main ways it shows us how it stays the same is that the traits that make for a great president are the same in 2016 as they were in 1789 when george washington was sworn in. for my new book, "cross examining history," after completing my interviews with experts, i synthesized what i learned into what i call the 10 commandments for presidential leadership. i recognize that this audience is filled with leaders, business leaders, civic leaders, and future leaders. i believe that these traits are important for all leaders because they come from the stories of those who face
important decisions and met them in ways that set the standards not just for presidential leadership but for all who are in leadership positions. when i interviewed johnson are new -- he said something very important. he said nothing happens in our federal government without presidential leadership. the reason for that is because congress cannot take prompt action because they are truly a herd of cats. only the president can manage the process in if the president does not, they do not yet manage. that quote made me think of reggie jackson who, during his days with the yankees, referred to himself as the straw that stirred the drink. he would say that in our federal government, it is the president who is the straw who stirs the drink. keeping that in mind on the
importance of presidential leadership, let's turn to the 10 commandments in the president's who eat the demise them. -- who eat the demise -- who epitomize them. the first commandment. a great leader shall be conscience in cheese. chief. the great leaders also serve as conscience in chief. with their moral compass locked on north. we can always count on them to do the right thing. the president who set the standard was our first president george washington. for my book, i interviewed historians who live in colorado springs.
they had a terrific biography of george washington that cannot last year. because of his repetition for high integrity, i wanted to understand, where did it come from? they said, in terms of how he presented himself, there was a strong physical component. he was a large man. more than just his size, he had these penetrating blue eyes and a broad nose and whenever he would speak publicly, he always spoke very slowly. he did that to make sure that he never misspoke.
it came across like the voice of god in the way that he expressed himself publicly. when you have this unusual speaking style, whenever he entered a room, people would stop what they were doing it immediately go into a mode of best behavior because they knew that high integrity had walked into the room. beyond the physical, where did it come from? like most people, integrity begins as a child with mentoring parents. an interesting dimension into how he ramped up his integrity came when he was a teenager, learning how to do cursive handwriting. he had a strong hand with a great flourish. the way people learned cursive is they got published books with elegant handwriting and people would copy them over and over until their penmanship matched
up with the standards in that book. george washington's favorite copybook was written by a jesuit priest entitled over -- "rules of civility and behavior." washington fell in love with this book, learned the rules backwards and forwards. the idea was that you disciplined your hand and your mind. it certainly worked with george washington. those roles became his code for living.
two that stood out to me, the first, every action done in company ought to be done with some sign of respect for all who are present. the second one, the labor to keep that spark of celestial fire called conscience. he maintained his virtue by really -- reading daily devotionals and attending church in making sure every action was in complete compliance with the brand-new constitution as well as with the jesuit rules. he left the presidency and two years later he died. there was a prominent historian who decided he wanted to do something special to preserve the memory of her -- of george washington, so he decided to write a biography.
in those days, you did not have great libraries or research tool so to fill up a book in portray personality and character, he did what many historians of the day did, he made stuff up. one of the most famous things he made up was the story of george washington at age six, i cannot , i cut down the cherry tree. that cherry tree story was an early 19th-century version of an aesop's fable. it told the story of integrity of george washington. we know what happens when we do not have integrity to be able to serve. we get protracted national scandals like richard nixon and bill clinton.
when you go to washington and you see the washington monument, think of it as a capital "i" for integrity. the second commitment. a great leader shall stay above the partisan fray in the able to build consensus. building consensus is an essential part of the american success story. that's how government works. people going across the aisle, having dialogue, compromising, in being able to legislate effectively. the latin phrase on our money means "out of many, one." yes, in many groups, there is more than one faction. the president has to be able to pull the factions together.
the president who was particularly good at staying above the fray and building consensus was thomas jefferson. the jefferson biographer i interviewed spent over 20 years as a professor of history at the university of virginia and he is the author of six books on thomas jefferson. because we live in a world where nobody can build consensus, i wanted to devote the interview to, how did jefferson do it yet go he was operating at a difficult time. the federalist party controlled by john adams and alexander hamilton was in constant conflict with the republican party controlled by jefferson and james madison and it got so bad that during adams'
presidency, congress passed the sedition act which made it punishable by incarceration for anybody to criticize president adams or the federalist policies. at that totally dysfunctional time when people were literally being thrown in jail for expressing their right of free speech, thomas jefferson became president. from the very beginning, he made it is priority to reach across the aisle and build consensus. in his close inaugural address, he said, we are all federalists and we are all republicans. we are all americans so why don't we start acting that way? don't we wish we had a candidate who could express that? beyond that, how do you build consensus? harold saunders says politics is all about relationships.
to build consensus, you can only do it after building relationships across the aisle. throughout his presidency, thomas jefferson would have regular dinner parties at the executive mansion where his only guests were the leaders of the federalist party. over wonderful food and wine, thomas jefferson was a very charming character, a renaissance man. he could talk about music. you name it -- he was a dazzling conversationalist. over the course of time, ongoing dialogue with people on the other side of the aisle, low and
behold, the wall surgery coming down and people started to be able to act together as americans in trying to make the government work. we know what happens when we have a president who is unable to stay above the partisan fray, lacking the tools to be able to build relationships, to build consensus with those across the aisle, you get exactly what we have had the last few years. total gridlock and a government that does not work. when you are in washington and you see the jefferson memorial, think of each of those columns as a faction and think of them as being unified together under the perfect jefferson dome. thomas jefferson made it his priority to bring the factions together and make government work.
the third commandment. a great leader shall know his limitations and know how to supplement his limitations. this takes self-awareness. this takes knowing, what are your strengths and weaknesses? being able to connect with somebody who is strong in the areas where you are weak and make it work and a president who was the best at that was james madison. for his strengths, he was very smart. he was brilliant. he also knew he was a hard worker. he had a work ethic second to none. for his weaknesses, he was a shrimp. he weighed 100 pounds. whenever he spoke, he had zero charisma. although he was brilliant, he lacked creativity and he knew
that. the madison biographer for my book is david stewart who, in his biography of james madison, is about how james madison went about building partnerships with those who are strong in the areas where he was weak. how did james madison compensate for being a scrawny little guy who got lost in the crowd? he buddied up with great day george washington. george washington knew that he needed more horsepower. he needed a little brilliance to add to the conversation and so james madison and washington locked arms at the constitutional conventions and in the early days of the washington presidency, they did more together than either of them could have done
individually. what did madison do to compensate? david stewart said he buddied up with the most dynamic of the founders, alexander hamilton. hamilton had a great vision for the constitutional ratification and came up with the idea. he needed somebody equally brilliant and hard-working and so he and madison joined forces, wrote the federalist papers and led the charge to get it ratified. what did madison due to compensate for no creativity? he buddied up with thomas jefferson. jefferson knew a lot of his ideas were unrealistic, crazy.
he needed somebody levelheaded to bring him down to earth, so you have this perfect balance of the levelheaded genius and the creative genius and together, they invented our federal government that has served us so well for so long. and washington -- we have got the james madison memorial building at the library of congress and inside the library of congress, you have the original of the constitution and when you look at the constitution, think about the fact that the only way the words have power is because the words are partnered together in secret city. the words standing up -- partner together in synchronicity. think about james madison. he had his extraordinary gift of knowing his strengths and weaknesses in forming partnerships with those who were strong. the fourth commandment. a great leader shall persevere over setbacks.
nothing stops the great leader when the ox goes into the ditch. the president who set the standard in this was franklin roosevelt. for my book on roosevelt, i interviewed ken burns. i hope you got to see the documentary "the roosevelts." he has also written three biographies on franklin roosevelt, one of which was a finalist for the pulitzer prize. and, james bowden just -- james bowden. they focused on the fact that until age 39, franklin roosevelt read -- led an amazingly active life. he loved to dance. he worked the crowd as he was pursuing his ambitions and all of a sudden, it he came to a
grinding halt when he was attacked by the poliovirus and lost the use of his legs for the rest of his life. yes, polio was a major setback but it did not hold him back for long. his biographers talked about his steadfast resolve and his first-class temperament and how because of that, he maintained himself. he kept a smile on his face after he had lost the bounce in his step. by overcoming and defining polio, his tenacity got the country to expect him at his word when he said, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. by overcoming the reality of a major disability, roosevelt proved the wisdom of joseph
campbell who said, where you stumble is where your treasures lie. by defining polio, he found resources of character that he did not know he had appeared before polio, -- did not know he had. before polio -- after polio, he had the common touch to communicate with the little people because he knew the struggles of life from polio that he never really had an appreciation for before. so, in washington, we have the franklin roosevelt memorial and when you look at it, look at the countenance on his face. this is a guy who is capable of doing anything. the rest of his body, he is
defeated and cloaked so as not to draw attention to his polio-ravaged legs. when you see that image, remember how important it is for a president to persevere and triumph over setbacks like franklin roosevelt. the fifth commandment, a great leader shall know how to play hardball when necessary. the president who particularly did that was dwight eisenhower. dean edward smith, a pulitzer finalist, was my biographer for my book. one example of how he played hardball -- the year was 1956. it was one week before the november presidential election. eisenhower was basically finishing his first term and one week later he would be elected for his second term. all of a sudden, great britain, france, and israel joined forces and invaded egypt and seized the
suez canal, and they did it knowing that eisenhower was opposed to their doing this but they did it anyway and they thought they could get away with it because they thought when we before the election, eisenhower did not want to lose the jewish vote -- they thought he would not respond and they were wrong. as it happened, eisenhower picked up the phone, called his secretary of treasury and said, i want you to purchase all the british pounds. i want you to make a run on the british pound. once he had done that, eisenhower picked up the phone and called the british prime minister and he said, if you do not get those troops out of the suez immediately, i will drive the pound down to zero.
what was he going to do? the troops came out immediately and that is how you play hardball when people get out of line and disrupt your tactics and goals or in this case trying to maintain international order. in washington, we have been wondering, one a day going to finish the eisenhower memorial? they cannot agree on a design but in the meantime, go to the arlington national cemetery and the tomb of the unknown soldier and remember that before being president, eisenhower was the allied commander during world war ii, the architect of the d-day invasion and he held that position in the military and he
served with distinction as many reasons. one of the main reasons was he knew how to play hardball when people got out of line in order to make sure that his goals did not get sidetracked. the sixth commandment. a great leader stays calm in a crisis. a great leader never wants to appear that he is panicking. always wants to appear like he is in a mode of being able to make good decisions. the president who was good at that was john f. kennedy. for my book, the biographer was sheldon stern. sheldon was a historian at the kennedy presidential library for over 20 years and he is the author of three books on the cuban missile crisis. you will remember in october 1962, the soviets deliver nuclear missiles into cuba. we had to respond. john f. kennedy called his cabinet together, called then the executive committee, and these meetings took place in the same room around the same table
over the course of 13 days. unbeknownst to everybody at the meetings, those conversations over 13 days were tape-recorded. john and robert kennedy wanted to record the meetings and they did it for the same reason nixon wanted to record his oval office because they thought it would always be there personal property. would never become available to scholars and the public. and so finally, the tapes became available of the meetings and sheldon stern was the first to listen to all 43 hours. but he learned from the tapes that with each day, all of his advisers including his brother robert were ramping up their voices, ramping up their blood pressure, insisting strong retaliation to get those
missiles out of cuba. the tapes reveal that there was one level head in the room and thank goodness it was the person in charge, president kennedy. over the course of 13 days, he negotiated an agreement that caused the missiles to be removed from cuba, avoiding what would have been awarded more -- world war iii. when you see the kennedy memorial, think about john kennedy, how he kept us from world war iii and allowed us to enjoy -- continue to enjoy our american way of life -- the privilege of enjoying the arts that the kennedy center -- at the kennedy center. a great leader shall be mindful of good timing when pursuing initiatives.
great leaders recognize the cubic centimeter of chance that can make or break them and when it pops up, they move on it with the necessary speed and prowess to capitalize on the opportunity. the president who was good at moving on the cubic centimeter of chance was lyndon johnson. to understand johnson and civil rights, interviewed a civil rights historian and the head of the lbj library, his daughter, and his white house counsel. from them, i learned the answer to a very troubling question, why did lyndon johnson weight so long before becoming a champion of civil rights legislation?
why did you wait? he said, [indiscernible] [laughter] ok? snake was the jim crow segregation laws. before becoming president, he served in congress for 15 years. you can use greatest admirers did not acknowledge that he took his job seriously. he had no idea how to get legislation passed. as president, the civil rights movement interrupted -- upted.upted -- er martin luther was thrown into jail. after two years, kennedy got serious about civil rights and he made a strong speech and submitted a bill to congress but it got stuck in committee and he had no idea how to get it out of committee before he was assassinated. after kennedy's death, lyndon johnson moved forward in the cubic centimeter of chance.
he knew that we had a nation that was reeling over the loss of the beloved young president. he reached out to those in congress who were obstructing the civil rights bill and he used this argument. look, we all need to do something major, historic to preserve the important legacy and memory of our departed john f. kennedy. let's make him the martyr for the cause of civil rights. the civil rights bill came out of the committee onto the floor. they busted the filibuster and passed into law. larry temple said, the conventional wisdom suggested, why did he not wait until november after he had been elected before taking on such a
highly controversial bill? the answer was, by then, it would be too late, and we would have lost the public momentum to recognize the beloved former president. lbj did the same thing with voting rights. nothing, nothing was happening. along came bloody sunday, selma, alabama. police troops started beating up unarmed african americans who were trying to march to montgomery as a protest against the lack of voting rights in alabama. faye goodness abc television was there to cover it and the image of the police eating of african-americans are monday people love not to germany -- of the police beating up african-americans reminded people of not see -- nazi germany. he did the same thing with their housing in 1968. the house refused to agree to the senate version of the bill.
how are we going to get this on stuck? boom. martin luther king was assassinated. just like with jfk, lbj reached out -- this was a major later, we have got to do something historic. let's make him the murder for fair housing. the house agreed and the act passed. in washington, you have the lbj department of education building.
remember it was because he knew how to move with perfect timing in pursuing his initiatives that allowed us to have integration sooner rather than later. a great leader shall be a great communicator and shall follow through and do -- and a president who follow through was ronald reagan. and the people i interviewed for my book, his first turn white house chief of staff and second term -- james baker. and his biographer, h w brand. i talked to them about many aspects of ronald reagan's life but i want to zoom in -- what made him a great communicator? the reaction was, of course he was a great communicator.
he spent half of his life as an actor. he knew how to deliver his lines with dramatic force. he said, no, it was more than that. it was his sunny disposition and cheerful countenance and spirit of optimism that give americans hope and allowed him to channel the inner voice of the american people. james baker said it was his consistent message over time and his steadfast opposition to soviet communism that caused the momentum that led to the end of the cold war.
in the modern era, speeches are written by speechwriters. although the boss has final say. the most important speech of his presidency came as he was attempting to bring an end to the cold war when he said "mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall." the speech went through many drafts and every time his speechwriters kept taking a line out -- they thought it was too inflammatory and would alienate the soviets. reagan knew better. when the time was right, the brandenburg gate, the place was right, and his entire foreign policy message that he had been expressing since his first speech had finally arrived and to heck with the speechwriters -- he gave us the words that will forever give him a word -- a place in our history.
tear down this wall. four words, each one syllable. simple and clear and passionate and on the mark. then he followed through and he kept that momentum going, ending the cold war, which was completed with george h.w. bush. when you go to washington, think about aviation -- aviation is all about having optimism and clarity and consistency and follow-through if you are going to land airplanes successfully. the streets are the key to what made ronald reagan a great communicator. the ninth commandment. a great leader always puts the people's interest above his own personal political interest. the president who was good at that was george h.w. bush. i learned about him from his biographer john meacham, james
baker, and his white house chief. bush had gone the nomination, and now was his prime time speech. he said six words. read my lips, no new taxes. the convention cheered and he got elected. the tax issue was politically huge. it was a two-edged sword. the tax cuts had been popular with ronald reagan. it caused a rise in our national deficit. after becoming president, bush became painfully aware that he had to do something about the deficit because the rest of the
world were concerned about the strength of the american economy with its record level of debt. when the budget talks came along in both houses were controlled by the democratic party who absolutely refused to cut any aspect of spending if you were going to have any money available -- there is only one way to do it. not only was new tax revenue needed to cut the deficit, but the iraqi army had invaded kuwait and so bush saw looming on the horizon expensive military warfare which of course became the gulf war and he did not want to fight a war on borrowed money. president bush [inaudible] agreed to new taxes and it triggered in immediate revolt in the republican party and was a factor in his losing the 1992 election. could president bush have kept that convention -- of course he
could. they would have been an impasse with congress. the government would have shut down and no money would have been available to address the increasing deficit in the world's lack of confidence. he put the country first over his own personal political interest. we have the george bush center for the intelligence, the cia headquarters. he was the head of the cia before becoming vice president. when you see it, remember him not only as an intelligent president but as a courageous president, willing to sacrifice his own interest for the good of the country. the 10th amendment, a great leader shall stay abreast of public cinema and shall find ways to shape it so as to align with his own vision and the president who was the best at this was our greatest president, abraham lincoln.
harold hauser one the lincoln prize, one of our most esteemed lincoln historians, and ronald white. so, public sentiment. lincoln knew that if he wanted to understand what the people were thinking the best way was to stay connected to the people who ran the local newspapers. wherever he went, he always made a point of stopping at the newspaper office so he could no the talk of their town. once he found out what people were thinking, he could come up with a strategy to get thinking to move in the direction of his vision and that is what he did as president by the way he
approached dealing with the very complicated issue of slavery during the civil war. obviously the civil war was raging. labor was a huge issue. lincoln decided he wanted to issue an emancipation proclamation. the first was issued after antietam. that was a preliminary version in the final was issued on january 1. i don't know if there is anybody who has ever read the emancipation proclamation from beginning to end. it is a pretty boring not eloquent document. abraham lincoln knew he was going to have to pass court scrutiny and constitutional muster and you think of the word emancipation, slavery, surely, somewhere in that document, they
would be reference to the immorality of slavery, the unjust fact that people of different races were treated differently and that that would be the basis for why we need to emancipate the slaves that you will not find that language in there in the reason you want is because abraham lincoln look -- abraham lincoln knew public sentiment. many people in the border states had not made up their minds on what to do about slavery. do we abolish it over time? there was high uncertainty about the best way to go about abolishing slavery. he knew that if he had set the basis for the emancipation proclamation was on this moral justice basis, there would be a lot of pushback because of a mixed reaction and perception among what to do about slavery and but also because he knew public sentiment.
he knew there was one thing that the public agreed-upon and that was, we need to and the civil war asap. we need to stop the destruction and if you ask commander in chief think that as a matter of military necessity -- that is the language he put in the emancipation proclamation. issuing this as a matter of [indiscernible] that those slaves who escaped can join the union forces, you think that is what we need to put an end to this war? there was very little pushback on the emancipation proclamation and of course it set the stage for the 13th amendment which became the subject of the steven spielberg film. when you go to washington, you see the lincoln memorial and the
statue of the great emancipate her and i hope when you look at that, you look into his eyes and initially you think, he is looking in mind, but then you say, no, he is looking beyond me. he had a long-range vision. he was able to shape public sentiment to align with his vision that he succeeded in abolishing slavery and ending the civil war. i want to close by getting back to november 8. in the days ahead, i hope that everybody will go to a quiet place, by yourself, and think about the questions i'm about to ask that are tied to the 10
commandments. i am not going to tell you how to answer these questions. that is up to you. i believe that by answering these questions based on these commandments, it provides a metric for what the voters need to be thinking about when that important choice happens and you vote. who is better suited to be conscious and chief? who is more likely to stay above the partisan fray and build consensus? who is going to have this self-awareness to recognize the strength and weaknesses and aligned with those people? who has the better record of persevering over setbacks?
who is more likely to play hardball skillfully when necessary? who is more likely to remain calm and make good decisions in a crisis? who is more mindful of the cubic centimeter of timing when pursuing initiatives? who is a better communicator and will follow through on what he or she says? who is going to put the nation owns welfare above his or her own personal interest? who is going to stay abreast of public sentiment and find ways to shape it? i hope you will think about these questions between now and the time that you vote. you will be aided by these lessons in presidential history that i had the great privilege of learning.
which was most compelling to you? talmage: as a personality. i think franklin roosevelt not only did he have responsibility for dealing with the depression but also world war ii and to do it in a mode of his disability and to always be in the mode of giving the country hope in our darkest hours i think really puts him as a personality and a compelling story head and shoulders above everybody else. nobody had to deal with that kind of disability. nobody triumphed and rose to the highest possible height as roosevelt.
>> given that this has been a lifelong interest. as you are studying these personalities, what surprised you the most? talmage: the most surprising was the jfk and the cuban missile crisis because after jfk was assassinated, then within a matter of time, bobby kennedy decided he wanted to run for president and so when you are ready for president you try to do everything you can to make yourself look like a hero worthy of adulation and so bobby kennedy began writing a book portraying himself as a great hero, the cool head in the room. and while he was writing this and showing it to the others they said, that is not the way i remember it, bobby. his response was, my brother would understand. of course, he was assassinated. he portrayed bobby has the cool head.
-- it was disproved that bobby was pounding the table the same as everybody else so it isn't -- it is an important lesson about always go to the best sources and when you are taking somebody's word for house -- for his heroic conduct, you better do some due diligence to make sure there is accuracy and it is corroborated and so forth so that was really the most -- and sheldon stern was the one who really brought all of this out. the historian in residence at the kennedy presidential library in boston. >> when goodwin was affiliated with johnston, [indiscernible]
talmage: i reached out to doris to arrange for an interview time and she was not able to do it. it was not because i did not try. i would have loved -- she would have been on the front cover of the book. but did not bat thousand, nobody bats 1000. i am very satisfied. when we think about lincoln, ronald white is absolutely top-flight. so i feel very good about the caliber of the minds and the stature of the people i interviewed about each of the presidents. this book -- i did not find a they all refer of every american president. -- i did not find a biographer of every american president. if i did, it would be 1300 pages
instead of 500 pages. i just identified -- i didn't say best -- the people who were the president at the most critical times -- herbert hoover -- nonetheless, he was the president when the great depression hit, and so, i found a major biographer -- richard nixon had to historian chapters -- but i also made the decision not to interview a biographer for every american president because i thought that in 2016 we do not have this deep public fascination for the life of millard fillmore and so many of our presidents in fact were insignificant and so 500 pages is the length of the book and it
is heavy enough as it is -- i will tell those of you who are encouraged to pick up the book, read about the presidents of your lifetime first. you don't have to start on page one. read at the presidents of your lifetime you know the most about. those questions are going to plug right in, get you comfortable with the question-and-answer format of the book and then once you finish those chapters, read about the president who preceded your lifetime, so that is my recommendation. >> thank you so much, and thanks to everybody for coming. [indiscernible] [applause] >> we have a distinguished member of the audience and we know you have great taste in history so my here comes santa claus speech apparently started with the governor. you can also be an owner of the book. it has the best cover.
thank you to c-span for filming this tonight. thanks to all of you for coming. [inaudible] we hope a big surprise in november [indiscernible] -- about it. and we look forward to seeing you on the 26th. karen is coming back from iran and she will have many stories to tell. thank you, talmage, come again soon. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]