to you. the predator is left to still wo rk in the same position in which he was harassing you. this is the way our society has decided to resolve sexual harassment cases. to gag women. hostncer: former fox news gretchen carlson talks about her sexualk "the fierce: harassment and taking your power back." that's tonight on c-span's " book tv." up next on american history tv, we hear from diana walker, a former white house photographer. in this interview she talks about her career and her behind the scenes outlets. she is the author of "the bigger picture: thirty years of

portraits" and "hillary: the photographs of diana walker." the university of texas at austin "the bigger picture: thirty years of portraits --briscoe center recorded this interview. is march 8, 2013. about dianato talk walker and her archives and the news history we have in the library. this is a targeted interview. started as you got one of the white house i starteders -- diana walker: i started and wentng in the 70s

to work for a small washington magazine. we do not told me, have much money to spend on photography. dear.ght, oh you $25we can only pay for every picture we use but the get you your i can credentials to shoot on the hill and at the white house. i began to freelance around washington and the business of washington is politics. i started photographing for "the photographd i would

a lot of things on set for them. that build up my portfolio. a lot to see "time" and of places. they would give me work or they would not. i went to see "time" and they gave me work and one of the assets i had in my hand was my credential to go to the white house. problem wheres over id not have someone there. call me uphan could

and send me ever there because i had the credential -- over there credential tothe do that. it was invaluable for me while i was working and i started working for "time" and my editor realized i was working more than his contracted photographers were. he asked if i wanted to be in contract with "time" and i said absolutely. the first thing they did was to send me over to the white house becauseograph carter the president was dealing with the american hostage situation. hostages were taken in our embassy in iran and he was determined to get them out.

he said i will stay here in the rose garden and he will do any traveling for me. who wase" photographer photographing president carter stayed in washington and i was hitched to mrs. carter and we went all over the world. on and goted better access. tell me about when you sta rted getting behind-the-scenes access. diana walker: when ronald reagan was elected president i continued to go over to the white house for "time" when they

needed extra coverage. i would go to photograph mrs. reagan particularly. "time" was interested in her "just say no" program. i was sent there quite a lot in the first four years. david connerly was photographing reagan. the mondale campaign for 1 7 months straight and at the end chief said, how would you like to cover the white house. that is when i started with the beginning of reagan's second ter m. i covered the white house through clinton. interested in the

idea of shooting behind-the-scenes. they were always interested in it. he did aing came up -- marvelous photograph of mrs. reagan and her dog. giving the dog a bath. that was very behind-the-scenes. inme" became interested behind the scenes during the administration of george herbert walker bush. they asked me if i would be their stealth weapon, if i would begin to ask for behind-the-scenes access.

george bush, his press secretary gave me the opportunity to go behind the scenes with bush early in his administration. as time went on, i did more and more of it. with george bush behind-the-scenes at his convention in 1992. be withld that i could him on election day too. because marlony sits forward or -- marlon took me aside and said, diana, i promised you you could be behind the scenes. going toid, i am

have to say no this time. it is such a tight election and , i cannotg went wrong first risk of having a time press person. i was sorry about it. i was not with him behind the scenes. h walterth isaacson becoming the managing editor of "time" during the clinton years --he was very

interested in behind-the-scenes. when he took over, he said, if you ask for it and they give it to you, i will run it. that is great, because i have back guarantee. there is nothing worse than andng for behind-the-scenes then not running it. it seemed unfair to me. they ran it each time i did it. he said i am not having a toorter there and i am going

just produce the pictures. behind thed to be scenes, the president himself had to sign off on it. too.s quite good for them publicationfor the to have behind-the-scenes access but you are also being used by the white house too. they are deciding when you will be behind-the-scenes and what you are going to see. i felt i should accept their offers to be behind-the-scenes every time they offered because any time you see the president of the united states behind the scenes, you learn something about the president and you see something. i can be there for you.

you cannot be there. everything you see is important. it is important, what does the president look like when he is writing his speech? desk ordiet coke on the i saw he worked with a yellow pad. be important to someone some time. with vice president gore, when he ran for president. i got access to be behind-the-scenes most of him.ime i was with i did the same thing with john kerry and with hillary in 2008.

the most productive behind-the-scenes work i did was with clinton. we made sure he was given a nice book of all the photographs afterwards. he told me later, he said it was fun. it was good. results but i they -- theyons knew what they were doing when they let me in. they knew if the president was preparing for whatever he was doing, they knew that next week it would run and it would run

with just captions for the pictures. it was a photo essay. a long answer to a simple question. up, yougoing to follow youioned that "time" hired as a stealth weapon. to me,alker: they came and said wed, want you bto be behind-the-scenes. behind-the-scenes, what it meant for me was, i could creep around quietly.pictures

they knew i would never intrude where i was. it would be easier for me to describe to you how i worked rather than what they meant when it. asked me to do what i did was, it was important to me to have them realize that i was trustworthy. backi was not going to go and tell the writers at "time" what i heard.

i had been there a long time by the time clinton was president. people whot of worked in the white house because they had worked for carter. theever party wins, players in the white house disappear and then they come back the next time. i knew most of the players in the clinton white house and they knew they could trust me. because it was not totally my character. takingt hear when i am pictures. the picture of walter cronkite

and ronald reagan, i do not know what they are saying. i do not know what the joke was because i am working. when i work, i cannot hear. rangeooking through a frame and i am trying to thepicture and think about picture. consider where my light is. what the lens opening should be, cannotng that, i multitask. when anybody asked me what i heard, i said, i am sorry, i do not hear when i am taking pictures. i could not hear and it was not

why i was there. i did not go behind the scenes nd a pencil. i went with a camera. it was important for me not to share when i left the room. allowedme i was behind-the-scenes with any of the president or candidates -- presidents or candidates i photographed, i had to take advantage of every moment i had in the room. that meant not talking to them. sometimes i would slip into the room and i would not even speak to the president because i did not want him to look up and if

he was with someone else in conversation, of course i did not say anything to him. i found that i worked that way and every so often the president would say, good morning. i would say i'm fine and i would disappear so he would go back. if he spoke to me, it ruins the picture because then i have pictures of someone sitting and talking to me. i am not part of this. other people in the room, how he relates to the other people in the room, how he deals with them is what i am there to see. and also if he is alone. how is he alone? what is he like? there a wonderful picture of george, george was in the room that day, behind-the-scenes with the president. he was quietly sitting in a

chair. the president turned around and started to read the newspaper. he was oblivious. he paid no attention to george and that is what you want. that is a beautiful picture of the president unaware of george entirely, in his own world, looking down at the newspaper. it became a symbolic picture to the loneliness of the job. so much bigger than the caption. imagecture is a beautiful of the president of the united states alone in the oval office. every time my camera was out of a leica camera, you do not use a motor. it is very quiet. you run out of film, if you want

to change it, it makes a certain type of noise. there is no whirring of the motor. noise.s a bit of i would look down to make the noise and never look up. up, i would catch the eye of the president. i did not want him to notice me. i hoped he would not notice me or the noise if i did not look at him. ometime if you are doing something noisy and you do not want someone to know about it, act as if you are alone. i would not look up. i was thinking they are going to ask me to leave,

this is a good break or they would say thank you diana. the press person was always trying to take me out. as quietly as i could and lift my camera to continue. a lot of times i could continue and sometimes they thought i had enough. sometimes, i would leave before to. asked ne me i did that for two reasons. picture, i had the could leave. you know you have the picture when something wonderful happens and i hope you will understand the subtlety of what i am

saying. fortimes what i'm looking is so small but it is big. it is like photographing president carter and president clinton --president bush and president clinton together when they became such friends later when they were both out of office. i was looking for the moment when the two would show how much they liked eachother. puttingone president his hand on the other president's knee or something personal like that, you know you've got the picture. it is not a bad thing to say thank you and leave. you never want to overstate your

welcome when you are behind -- you stay your welcome when are behind-the-scenes. many people look at the body of work i did behind-the-scenes and they think i spent the day with the president. really be a fly on the wall for very long but it was enough to have a good body of work from behind the scenes. you know you mentioned were looking for a moment that revealed something of the person's character. how did that way of listening with your eyes develop for you? diana walker: when you watch

someone through a lens, you are oaiting for something t reveal itself with a facial expression. move. gesture, with a when you watch people when they are very engaged. watching for a you seehen the person toeither responding something. i was photographing president reagan. picture.big

or theto be the lead cover. a was not technically assigned the scene photograph -- behind-the-scenes photograph but there were not other press there. iteliminates wh -- illuminates what you are asking. staffn from his wife's what stories he liked to tell. the title of the article was, popular."is man so

sign of his for a character. endid something at the about mrs. reagan. i said she told me the story of sucha n and such. yes, i had not thought about that for a while. there is your picture. you are always looking for the moment when people reveal something to you. that is what we do. whether it is out in public where there are millions, you're waiting for an expression on someone's face. you are waiting for a gesture or

ofe event to happen in front you. >> with a lot of your photos behind the scenes, you paid attention to moments of humor or when they are enjoying themselves. tell me about that. diana walker: humor in my ure ofraphs,the pict roster cronkite, ronald reagan ronkite, ronald reagan and all the presidents doing an exclusive thing for cbs. picture ofe, the yeltsin and president clinton laughing, that simply unfolded

in front of the world because they were on the stage. funny.cture is so there is a series of five and they are so funny. i remember being behind-the-scenes with hillary clinton. storye doing a cover around her 50th birthday and mrs. clinton's demeanor early on in the white house. her senset known for of humor. there were people who did not know if she had one. i asked the chief of staff if i could ride in mrs. clinton's limousine back from an event.

the secret service left me in the limousine and i was squished at thecorner looking first lady and her chief of staff. it was a wide picture to get both of them in. they immediately started to share something funny. they both were laughing and i thought, how great is this? i know what kind of sense of humor mrs. clinton has. i sent this packet of film to new york and i said watch the back of the limousine. toeditor said we cannot wait

run the picture of her laughing. she does not look that way in public. i was so happy that happened because it was so important to her character. she has a wonderful sense of humor and that was so nice to see when she was secretary of state. it was out there, how funny she could be. i love the fact that that was another laughing picture. areink laughing pictures important. contrast betwen the public clintons and the private clintons. tell me about the photo in the book where he has his arms around her neck? diana walker: one of the moments when i was behind-the-scenes with the clintons was the night

--i cannot remember why i was with them. thiss for the day and particular night, the special olympics had an event at the white house and the president and mrs. clinton were hosting it. it was in a big tent behind the white house. the clintons were walking out and the shriver family was waiting to greet them. the clintons stopped to speak to mrs. shriver and the white house photographer and i were together. upt behind, we walked

quietly behind mrs. shriver. there was no light in the room. in myhigh speed light camera. shouldaid to me, we have heard you when you made the picture. you said wow. wow. i had my camera up and i was focusing. it is hard to focus a rangefinder camera in the dark. the president took his arms and wrapped them around his wife. and he laughed. wents so beautfiul and i wow and shot it and that was a

wonderful moment. a small moment. you never know when they are going to happen. vote ofn the eve of the the president's impeachment. moment.e a big toas throlled to -- thrilled be there. >> you took a photograph of hillary as secretary of state which later became the text for hillary meme. diana walker: it was a year ago last october, i got a call from

"time" and they said, would you like to go out with the secretary of state because she is going on a special trip. it is so important they are not telling us what country she is going to. it if you would do it. dustedmi retired so they me off and sent me out the door. there were two photographers on that rtrip because there were so many writers that wanted to go. we're going to tripoli, libya. in itself.big story the secretary of state was going

to go to libya, which was in turmoil. plane on a c-17 transport to take us to tripoli. togetherting my gear and the press secretary s aid, would you two like to take a picture of the secretary before we take off? course.f the secretary was sitting at sk in the airplane. it is an odd sight. it is a cavernous airplane and it is weird looking. there she is.

she has a blackberry in her r ight hand and she is reaching in her bag. glasses and these glasses happened to be dark glasses. theret them on and sat and looked at her blackberry. icture is unusual mostly because of the c-17. there she is in this cavernous place with the dark glasses on and is texting. is look and think this weird. doctorked a bit like no. i said, i don't think she will like that picture very much.

they asked us to take it. end of story. "owever, when it got to "time they loved it. they said this is a secretary in charge. thought abouthey putting it on the cover. i said oh my god. luckily for the secretary, i photographed her in her office and they worked out very well. those.ved one of they had two faces of hillary. looking ladylike and lovely in her nice office

and there she was, the secretary of state in charge, on a mission. on a mission to tripoli, afghanistan, pakistan. this was an important trip and there she was. she looked totally in charge. about four months later, tumbler, the website tumbler took that picture. the "time" website had that picture story. they took it. they paid no attention to who credit.or who deserved

meme and i up as a they call from "time" and this.you will not like your pictures, without credit. that started this whole controversy with tumbler and the went viral. "time" told tumblr that you youot use this photo but

photo. put credit on the away.id right it went all over the world. invitedand her staff the two men from tumblr down to meet the secretary of state. boys, it apparently, is so funny. kick.such a my husbandone wher calls me and says what are you doing tonight and i say ruling the world. said get me my dark glasses

goingackberry, we are to do this right. guysid that with the two from tumblr. they were charmed. diana, take alf, book.from hillary's b enjoy the ride. world.oing all over the involved inciples not crediting and not getting permission. all of it is copyright infringement and i am afraid this happens every day on the

internet. every day people are learning more and more about copyright laws and realizing they have to tumblrem and i am sure will not do that again. bothu said you had 70ntons photographed in the 's. diana walker: in 2002 i was doing research for a book. my first book, one of the be relievedked to from my job. i did not want to have a daily beat. --a very good friend of

mine who was the picture editor of "people" magazine was semi-retired and i asked if i go through my to work and pull anything she thought i should see from my b -- see for my book. to new york from the photographer and you get the outtakes ages later. at briscoes are here center. you know, diana, did

ill clintonaphed b in 1979? i said, i think the first time i ever saw was the election of 1992. although i saw him at the convention in 1988 when he made this long speech. isaid i cannot believe photographed him. arkansason a trip to and you photographed mrs. carter then governor of arkansas bill clinton and rosa parks. diana, you'll probably want this picture in your carter section

of your book. the picture came and there was bill clinton and i also photographed hillary that day 1979, -- no, 1976, i had photographed hillary when i photographed hamilton jordan 1976 convention. 1976.k it was picture. the i photographed both of them before they came to washington. unexpected.ore

you have a long friendship with steve jobs. there is a photo where he is sitting in a house with no furniture. diana walker: i covered the white house every other month. anotherwork for publication that was not a direct competitor of "time." was earlyt before, it reagan days where i was just substituting at the white house. i got a call from "time" and they said we want you to photographed steve jobs. guy.d, oh yeah, the apple

they said he had a difficult time with the photographer we sent last time. we hope you can establish a better relationship. that was them saying, be nice. we are sending you because we think you have diplomacy. we're going into a situation where he is angry at us. off i went. point, well, -- see youyes, i want to everywhere. i want to see you at work at apple. i said where else can i photographed you.

he said i have a new house. i said i can do it all. housed i have to go to my let's go. afternoon, he had bought a house in woodside, not too far from palo alto. in the kitchen we had a cup of theee and he said this is living room. nothing inthere is this room. how am i going to take a portrait of him in here? i photographed him in the kit chen and i said how about and

he said how about i sit here. hi-fi and my cup of tea and my house. of the roome back to photographed this. this computer genius making pil es of money from running apple had a house with no furniture. he sat there. hadurned on some music and just what he needed. "time" sent me to photograph

throughout two years his life. i became a good friend of his and he became a friend of my whole family. deal.d for him a great for so grateful to him giving me the opportunity to follow him. like photographing behind the scenes. i liked him a lot and he liked my pictures. do it.d let me come and towards the end of his life, happily, i was not out photographing anymore.

when he came to notmac world but i did photographed him then. the last time i photographed him behind the scenes was in 2004 before his operation for his patriotic cancer. it was a wonderful time to photograph him because he was convinced he was going to be just fine. i am glad that is the last time. i photographed him. >> did you turn down subsequent chances? it anwalker: we didn't do ymore. not want totor did

ask for time out of his life. utwould see him and visit byt not to take pictures. is a a hard time -- this strange thing to discuss on camera. withi was asked to go hillary on the trip, steve died was leaving.e i his privated to memorial service and i could not withcause i was leaving a.m.ecretary at 7

my family went. "time" was responsible for my being involved with both those people. it intersected my private life too and it was because of "time ." someone told me steve would be so happy with the idea of you going off with the secretary of state. that was that. your photographic archive, photos ors of what photo would you like to be remembered for? question, i know.

diana walker: it really is a huge question. would want to be for particular pictures of each president. thinkd not say to you i one picture is better than another. each administration i have photographed i have pictures that i care about. it was my career. proud ofctures i am

opportunity tohe photograph outside the white house. i would say, the first pitcher picture ofst steve to the last, those pictures i am proud of. about -- to speak well, there were some pictures of mrs. carter i liked. thennot resist mentioning

picture of ronald reagan with queen elizabeth. that to me is a wonderful picture. en it, ine else takin would have had the same thing. lotink it tells you quite a about their humor. i think the picture of reagan and walter cronkite laughing at the joke is exceptional because that situation would never have happened in front of the press. never, never, never. george herbert walker bush, i lo throwingcture of him souvenirs in the desert. troops.ot rallying his

thaas tossing souvenirs but troopsallying the before desert storm. president clinton, there's a picture of hillary clinton with chelsea the morning of the neverral and i have gotten as many responses to a pi cture as that picture. chelsea came downstairs and her mother was in the front hall of the white house. chelsea opened her coat to show her mother what she was wearing earing an extremely

short skirt and you see mrs. you do not seeher face. the way she is standing, she pulls back in some surprise that her daughter is wearing such a dress to a public event. i love that picture. i love the picture of bill clinton behind-the-scenes before he is backstage at his convention in 1996 and he is abo ut to be introduced. in name has been put nomination for the second time

in his life. the crowd is going wild. ands just about to go out belt,ps and takes his pulls of his trousers and takes a deep breath. the air is in his cheeks. there is a man who can i love that picture. and there is a moment i will never get over that i just love, it is a picture of the president with madeleine albright and the secretary of defense and with

his national security adviser. three of them were on the couch and the national security advisor was leaning over towards the couch. mesked the president to tell what did he say. i was in the room, behind the scenes, i was doing a cover story on madeleine albright. sudden, the president said, look at us here in a row. we look like the monkeys. here are no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. the three of them did this in front of me. were obliviousey to the fact that they had a photographer in the rim. they did not care, they were having fun. and they did it.

and that is one of the times where i knew i had the picture and i should leave. so i shot the picture, and stood up and quietly left the room. press secretary of the white house that the picture was not going to be used as the story. it had nothing to do with the story. it has never been published except as a winning photograph. it won the contest that year because it was so unusual. picture because it says, we do not take ourselves that seriously. we are human beings. i loved it for that reason. so did each of them. , and il have the picture have to tell you madeleine albright says on the picture

they all signed. she is see no evil. bitsays, diana, this is the -- this is the best picture of me you have ever taken. charming.lutely wonderful. it sounds like she was good at self-deprecation. what made you desire to bring your archives here? my partner in crime at the white house was senior to me, he had been there -- for for the forced the first four years of the reagan administration. we cover the white house together. clinton became president,

we decided we needed a third because clinton was on the move all the time. so johnson joined us. -- dirk and i shared an office at times. one day, he said, i know you have heard me talk about don carlton and the briscoe center. but you ought to consider leaving your archives to us. i said, leaving my archives? wow. i had not thought about my archives. it was not something i had given much thought about. said, can i tell don carlton you might be interested? i said, absolutely. i had never thought what to do with them. so i met with allison. the reason i did it was i

started thinking about what am i going to do with all of those pictures in the basement? with all that stuff? museums have asked me .or photographs of mine they are part of the collections of three or four museums. thought, they are not going to want my archives. it is presumptuous to think any museum will want your archives. i thought, where would you send your archives? what would your children do with them? i have known people who have donated them to universities. that sounds like a good idea.

let me find out more about this. when don explained to me what he was ther, i thought it best idea i ever heard. he was onto something. how fabulous is it to have a particularly pertaining to me, white house pictures. how great is it to have white house pictures for history? and of course the libraries have byir own pictures, taken their in-house photographers. certain bias when you are on staff as to what your pictures might look like, what you have in them or do not have in them. whichess pictures, presumably are impartial, to

have the ability as a student to ansomeplace where you have extensive collection, was a great idea. that i havepictures taken for "time" could be important to someone else is a rewarding feeling. a wonderful feeling to have. log on andat you can see images of from certain days, certain events, from a made meal perspective, jump at the chance after i met don and alice. i thought, wow. this would be great.

to have them be useful to other people. i still have the ability, we all event that a museum is interested, like the smithsonian museum of american natural portrait gallery both have extensive work of wine, which they have come and asked to see. i can do that. enhances the interest in the work here when i send it here. just great. reallyo with my pictures what i want to do with them. i can keep a certain number of that are shown in

galleries, private galleries. it works out well. also --coe center will will always have scans and all of the images that i took. they might not have the original .lide that will stay in washington with me. andthe copies come here will come here. im delighted about it. -- i am delighted about it. this is a fabulous institution. to have someone catalogued my work and be able to say to a student coming in who is interested in health care who wants to see the events that hillary clinton did at the white house? and who was there, who was in the room?

terrific to be able to contribute my archives here. it is a wonderful thing for me, for my family, and i hope it is interesting and informative to students forever. >> one more question. what you see as the value and importance of photojournalism archives and history? the archives here at the briscoe center is really important. i believe in images and the strength and importance of images. , but to me, the still picture matters. the stories are wonderful and

the written word, i know briscoe collects that to. in collecting photojournalism, .t is giving visual history it is giving a visual history to students, the public, whoever wants to see it. i walked to the exhibit downstairs and what don has done besides all of the archives, he biggest collected the hits of photojournalism of the 20th century. the listdown downstairs.

the kent state picture. adams execution in vietnam. the ruby picture. jack ruby shooting oswald. look at that picture and you get a sense of the whole thing. look at the picture of the cheering and reacting to blacks going into a high school in alabama. you could read a thousand words and it would not be as effective as the picture. is a wonderfully important thing that don carlton has done, collecting the archives. photographers bring you what they see.

that people will -- that these pictures will be preserved and shown, exhibited and used for research or however they are used. it is gratifying to those of us who have given our archives here that they are of interest. it is wonderful that there is an institution that has the interest. announcer: interested in american history tv? visit our website. you can view our tv schedule, preview programs, and watch --lege lectures, using tours museum tours, and more.

tonight, on afterwards. >> the woman never works in her chosen career ever again, and we can never talk about it. how else can we solve sexual harassment? we put an arbitration clauses in employment contracts, which makes it a secret proceeding. no one finds out about it if you file a complete, -- file a complaint, no one ever knows what happens to you, in most cases, you are terminated from the company and the predator is still working in the same division in which he was harassing you. this is the way our society has decided to resolve sexual harassment cases. we can tell so

everyone else out there that we have come so far in 2017. announcer: gretchen carlson talks about her new book. watch afterwards tonight at 9:00 eastern on book tv. next, eric byrnes talks about his book someone to watch over eleanorrtrait of roosevelt and the tortured father who shaped her life. this event is 40 minutes. introduce the ceo of the new york historical society. you know the wonderful work she does. please welcome her. >> thank you.