frankly. exploring the american story, watch american history tv this weekend on c-span3. >> sunday on "q&a" author and history professor talks about his book "the sword and the shield: the revolutionary lives of malcolm x and martin luther king jr. ". >> so, what we see with king, the revolutionary king, he starts using non-violence as early as 1965, after the los angeles rebellion of 1965, to paralyze cities to leverage non-violence civil disobedience to transform american dplok si. malcolm x had called for the same thing at the march on washington, which malcolm criticized as a farce on washington because he wanted a display of civil disobedience

that was going to be muscular enough to end the racial status quo in the united states of america. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's "q&a." next a confirmation hearing for the nominees for secretary of housing and urban development and the chair of the council of economic advisers. hud nominee, marcia fudge and sicilia rouse testified for the senate banking committee. this is 2 hours and 10 minutes. before i begin with an opening statement, there are a few housekeeping items i would like to go through. as fers, this hearing is of courseo being held remotely. a few video conference reminders. once you start speaking, there will be a slight delay before you are displayed on the screen. to minimize background noise, please click the mute button until it is your turn to speak l or ask questions. if there is a technology issue, we will move to the next senator

until that issue is resolved. i'd like to remind all senators and our witnesss that the five-minute clock still appliesl you all have one box on your screens labelled clock. 30 seco it will show you how much time is remaining. at 30 seconds remaining, you s should hear a bell that will remind senators that their timer has almost expired. se simplify the speaking order process, senator brownni and i have again agreed to go by seniority for this hearing.of after senator brown and our i g opening statements, we will hear brief introductions from our witnesses, from senators brown and portman and senators mendez and booker.will rec we will then proceed to testimony. i'll recognize myself for my opening comment and observe that it appears that i am chairman i for the mornings to or so. maybe it'll be for a full day. that is to be seen. but i want to thank chairman crapo for his service. i think he is not with us at the moment. but i want to thank him for his

leadership of this committee. in my view, senator crapo set a terrific example for all of us,t an example ofhink how to engaged civil debate and treat each ter other with e respect. i think senator crapo has a lotd of work o that he can be proud i during his tenure as chairman, thework he did on the c.a.r.e.s. act in particular as the economc was in dire straits last march to thehe bipartisanesque 2155 t economic growth consumer cha protection act. and i want to thank chairman crapo. and i think i speak for many members of the committee in saying that we're looking forward to his work as the ranking member of the finance committee. i also want to say a quick word expressing my appreciation to e senator brown. we find ourselves of course in this somewhat awkward position where we have an even split in the senate, and we at the time moment have this split on the b committee itself. as i mentioned, i'm fully aware

that very, very soon senator th brown will be the chairman of the committee.umst i'd like to pointan out i feel r like we've made the best of thei circumstances we're in. we've made progress on the process by which we vet nominees. we've themsel made progress on processing the nominations themselves. we've made progress on the budgeting for the committee andp how we'll allocate resources. p so, ise appreciate that. and i appreciate the fact that in the past, senator brown and i have had a constructive workingt relationship, whether it's working on thing lieks the s opioid crisis, the threat of asian carps to the great lakes w that we share, andard a number national security threats as w well. so,be his i'm looking forward t continuing to work with senator brown in what will soon be his new role. and as for my opening statement, let me first begin by thanking both nominees for their cecili appearance a today, more importantly for their willingness to serve.

has hadad a distinguished careee inin academia and government. she's well qualified for the ra post forrc which she's been nominated. she has a wealth of expertise in economic research and par i will say i am particularly, pleased and i admire her advocacy for freedom of speech and adversity of points of view and i think that's an important principle. in 2017 doctor cecilia rouse wrote that i believe that diversity cannot be seen among demographic lines. although we don't always think of diversity in terms of thought or political or

invitation, we should. royal they should work together to debate the important issues of our day. i think that's a constructive, and much-needed sentiment especially on college campuses. and then spirit of that quote, i think i'm going to disagree with doctor cecilia rouse more than i agree. in regards to policy prescriptions. but i think she is someone, that i could work with and i hope that if she is confirmed, she will bring a thoughtful reason and perspective, and in particular, a willingness to underscore that most policies have intended and unintended consequences. and their costs as well as benefits and the entirety of the entire outcome should be evaluated. and i would like to thank you congresswoman fudge, for your

career and public service. in light of president biden's company continued calls for personal unity i think it's important we look at some of the past rhetoric, just as we should for all nominees who support this committee, to understand whether your rhetoric matches president biden's call for a quote bringing americans together. and i will say i'm particularly troubled by many statements you have made attacking and disparaging the integrity of motives of republican officials of whom you have policy disagreements. in september of 2020, you slammed senate republican efforts to fill the late justice ginsburg's seat, and you said those who are bent are on choosing her successor, i have no decency, have no honor, and no integrity. and you went on to say, they are a disgrace to this nation. and quote. so congresswoman, it is one

thing to have strongly held views, and disagreements, but i am troubled by this and several other statements. because in my mind they raise questions about your willingness and ability to work with republicans, if this is indeed your opinion of republicans. one such category of this is where we need to work together, is how you as hud secretary would implement housing policies. and i hope to learn more about this morning how you will address the regulation on fair housing. i hope you avoid returning to the costly, obama era rule, that four cities to hire expensive consultants, and had lengthy plans that can stretch as long as 800 pages. in my view it is not the time to impose unfunded mandates on these communities, which will drain resources that could be used to support affordable housing and other priorities. i also believe, that it is local communities that should

be in the driver seat, making the decisions for their communities rather than in washington, and i would like to know how you will dress hud that disparate regulations, under the obama era it's often seen that defendants were guilty before proven innocent. and i hope a new rule that comes from hug, will allow claims of discrimination got and free housing make it affordable so they can continue on their decisions. finally let me just make clear, how i think about the important issue that we're going to be wrestling within congress and it is the jurisdiction of this committee and that is the question of whether they should be in a longer eviction moratorium in light of the

context of this which is already been provided. last year we were in a full blown financial and economic crisis, we appropriated and everybody on this committee voted in favor. i think everyone in the senate as well, voted to have several trillion dollars to replace lost income for businesses and individuals. in march congress authorized hundreds of billions of dollars in direct assistance to individuals, in regards to food stamps and unemployment benefits, and we all voted for that. just last month, we did it all over again. so signs are now parting are now pointing towards a robust recovery. but it's underway, the economy grew 33% in the first quarter. and personal savings rate is at an all-time high. and unemployment has improved, from 15%, to below 7% now. just a few weeks ago, we passed

another 900 million dollar bill. and included in that, 25 billion dollars were available for emergency rental assistance and that money has not been fully distributed yet. but now we are being told, that we need to do even more right away. my view is if after all of this historic spending their people who have fallen through the cracks, and people who have not gotten the assistance they need, then by all means let's have a conversation about those folks. but i think anything we do now should be narrowly targeted to the people we need to help rather than universal spending programs that and eventually we will spend a huge amount of money on people who have not experienced hardship. i look forward to the testimony of each of our witnesses, and i recognize senator brown for his opening statement. >> thank you it is an honor to be here. and it's a thrill to be here

with congresswoman marcia fudge. we have talked numerous times, and as the case with somebody, now we haven't spoken face to face, and i look forward to that. thank you mister chairman for your words about the work on this committee. the and i would echo your comments about a number of issues and i would disagree with -- on most major issues. but we can make a number of good things happen in this committee and our discussions and relationship on this transition, and the work that even i did mr. chairman, and that essentially kept 12 million people out of poverty, and as unemployment benefits start to fall away in the summer we are working. together on that, and it made a huge difference. and i want to thank you and

let's continue that work, our new relationship on in the next couple of years. and we have the review the the contribution we'd like to look at the contribution of people to people especially marcia fudge who leads housing and development, and most of us the were impressed with their knowledge, with their commitment, and impressed with their passion to serve especially during this health and economic crisis. thank you both to marcia fudge and cecilia rouse for that. new unemployment claims continue to rise, many of families are behind on their bills millions of them. rent mortgage payments. and the chairman was right, there was good economic growth in the third quarter, but the fourth quarter does not look so good. this recovery is clearly off track, and much more needs to be done. secretary the new secretary of

the treasury, the sitting chair of the federal reserve, who is known as a republican and they both believe we need to do more. and not put our foot on the break. they face a choice, the while we marshal all of our country's vast resources to meet this moment. and help families that desperately need it and there are so many of them in all the states, who are helping our small businesses to survive but we have to work to get americans vaccinated, and get the americans back to work and back to school and have grandparents and parents seeing each other and their grandchildren. the people drain their meager savings accounts at this time, and job losses are often becoming per minute. as racial and inequality gets worse. president biden recommended

that congressman marcia fudge the system this. and i can think of no one better to lead us out of this pandemic, and into the future, then the two women before us today. and after year when black americans, have entered as many painful reminders, of the gap between the promise of our founding ideals and our failure to make that promise real for every one, two black women will take leading roles in our economic recovery. this matters on so many levels, it matters for a future that little girls including black and brown girls, see themselves in our leaders. from the vice president, tried to economic leaders sitting in front of this committee. it matters because of the perspective of life experience of these two women, these two black women that they bring to this job. they both have ties to ohio. one a daughter of cleveland,

and one whose mother is sitting with her. marcia is broadcasting, from the community college, with her family behind her. the and the i've seen her mother, an activist herself, who brought up marcia to be the activists she is, and i've seen around the community. and marshall introduced him in a moment. the other the doctor she has a real understanding of the people who make this country work the to these jobs. if confirmed congressman marcia fudge will lead an agency that provides housing and safety to people who are experiencing homelessness from this pandemic. and we are talking off line at the beginning to talk about how important this is, especially for homeless veterans. she will help communities rebuild. today hud is grappling with the housing market.

where millions of families are finding a harder and harder to have a home. wages are flat, housing is, up so many workers have trouble making rent every month without crippling stress. or they turn to predatory loans. and home ownership is increasingly out of reach. and a bigger racial divide. a lot of this started with covid-19, the affordable housing market, and decisions by both governments and corporations at this pandemic has exposed, what millions of families in this country already know that too many people are struggling to get by. before the united states had the first case of covid-19, before that a quarter of all renters in this country, we're already paying more than half -- income for housing. the homeownership rate was nearly as low as it was in 1968, one housing discrimination was legal. and when our colleagues, the

was nominated secretary of the hud. and how does trying to fix that, and expand opportunities to every zip code. to make should all families have a safe home that they can afford. congressman marcia fudge will help to protect our kids from lead poisoning, still problem in cleveland and cleveland. and the get resources that they need. all of this is a tall order. she brings to the job, the unique and critical experience of serving as a mayor, and the in the kind of community that is overlooked, or outright prayed upon by wall street investors. we cannot write off these entire swath of the country. whether it's foreign country, or urban neighborhoods. this champion of cleveland understands that. the both of these ladies will help our economy recover, and

doctor the cecilia rouse is who we need at the helm right now to. and you will get americans back to work, fighting for better jobs with better wages. and those job losses of disproportion, has fallen on low income workers, black and brown women black and brown people and women. the it is all part of the corporate business model, the treats american workers as expendable. instead of essential as we call them. to this country success. for decades this is been wages have remained stagnant, while ceos have a thriving economy. they will not be the first time that doctor cecilia rouse has helped us, a dozen years ago during the great recession. and doctor cecilia rouse has

spent her eye time focusing on workers, i will guide this administration in congress, and help survive help thrive this con makes it works for all americans. and we have to look at how we can protect families from climate change. while seizing opportunities to create new jobs and advance justice, and grow new industries. making our homes a communities more energy efficient, and this is not just necessary for a future, it's a kind of investment that would put people back to work in jobs that cannot be outsourced. we face great challenges, during these extraordinary times, and the we will help chart the course out of this pandemic into a better future. in the years head, i've been asked to submit a number of letters to support these two nominees. >> without objection. >> thank you mister chairman. >> at this time our colleagues from ohio and new jersey, would

like to introduce the nominees from their home state. senator brown, would you like to add anything by with introduction. >> a couple of words, and i will turn to my colleague. i've said much about congressman marcia fudge already i've, mentioned her mother, and she is with us from the our great community college, i'm not sure if it's downtown campus. she's a proud daughter of ohio, she was born in cleveland, she grew up in our state, she graduated from the ohio state university the college of law, and for clear focus on public service. she was in the kyle county prosecutor office. and the mayor of warns ville heights, i remember the long meeting i have your office, back in 2005, and she served as

national president of the delta that -- sorority. and i've been to many of those reunions. she has been a leader in congress, and for the congressional black caucus. she we know she is outspoken on human rights, women's rights civil rights, and she saw how people have prayed on families. and foreclosures in 2007 there was more there, and she was serving as mayor than for less than seven or eight miles from warns ville heights, and she represents those communities in congress. she has dedicated her career to fighting for these families. and i'm excited to work with her, the and on the banking housing committee on banking. my pleasure to introduce marcia

fudge. >> senator you are can make your comments you're recognized. >> chairman and chairman to be brown. and others who might be here from the committee. i would like to introduce a friend of mine. and before i do i would like to tell her that i think it's great but she's an enemy and an amazing community college. and i understand that mrs. mariam stafford is with you, and she is a distinguished public servant in her own way. although not in elected office, and she is the 89 year old mother of yours is that not correct? >> well congratulations to you and your family. for this nomination. and i am here just to say that i am proud that you are choosing to step up, and you are a friend of mine, we have worked together. you do have a distinguished

career, and you have worked on housing policy issues throughout your entire public policy career. you graduated from hostile state, the and you are a county prosecutor assistant prosecutor, you are the first african american and first female mayor of warns ville heights. and there you worked on housing issues. affordable housing was one of your housing objectives there. and since being elected to the house of representatives in 2008, succeeding another friend of mine, who was a very successful member of congress, who is able to work on both sides of the aisle, stephanie tubs jones. you went to work there with substantial and an impressive work ethic. as i have seen. certainly a compassion for your constituents. the you've worked where poverty

is definitely an issue, and you have worked collaboratively to tackle these challenges. working across party lines, even including with the republican senator every now and again, and the business community to help your constituents. of course you also chair the congressional black caucus, and they may do chair because they recognize your leadership capabilities. in our time in congress together we worked on a number of things. that bipartisan, and including college access to low income students. not in 2014, after a new hud rule that i thought was a bureaucratic rule it did make much sense, it cut off some cleveland area families from social services and housing. your office in my office, we work together to make sure that

hud worked with the county, in cleveland so the struggling residents could continue to have access to those vital services. and i know you've had experience working with the hud bureaucracy. during this health care and economic crisis, you continue to be a leader in fighting for housing, and security to the bipartisan cares act, and to make sure that people are not unfairly evicted from their homes, due to missed housing or mortgage payments. just as important as her experiences, and who she is a person i don't always agree with marsh on policy was but i can speak to her integrity and her commitment to justice and her frankness of character. she has a public servants heart. i think she's in it for the right reasons. and again, i'm encouraged that she is the one to step up.

to take on this new responsibility, and that is not always easy in these times. as head of the department of housing and urban development, she will have an important job of leading efforts to assure affordable quality housing, for all americans. this is something we all hope for. and it is critical as our nation continues to face a housing crisis. confounded by the health care and economic crises of covid-19. i noticed this morning, that there was a new report on the economic growth, the fourth quarter growth was substantial, it was 4%. that does not mean that housing became any more affordable though. in a way i think as we begin to come out of this pandemic, we are going to get back as we start to grow the economy again, which all of us hope for, and i believe it will happen, but under the same issue that we have been in, which is a lack of affordable housing. in my state of ohio and around the country. so i know representative the marcia fudge shares that concerned. and will be focused on that. she shares this committee's

commitment, to addressing the addiction crisis, and how do you deal with that in the middle of the pandemic. it is a tough issue. and you want to be sure that landlords, particularly landlords in ohio and elsewhere, are not left without resources they need to be able to be successful. but also we need to make sure we are dealing with the reality of people not being able to pay rent in some cases. and avoiding avoiding those evictions, that cause so much pain and efficiency in our system. thank you for allowing me to introduce representatives representative marcia fudge, and the opportunity to vote for her. >> thank you senator portman, senator menendez, you are you have the floor. >> thank you as a senior member of the committee i look forward to working with you. they're on an important set of

agendas which i know the committee will be pursuing. today it is a sincere honor, to introduce dr. cecilia rouse as president biden's nominee for the chair of the council of economic advisers. this is not the first time that i've introduced dr. cecilia rouse to this committee. i had the same honor back in 2009, when president obama nominated her to the council of economic advisers during the height of the great recession. as a member of the council, the doctor helped to advise strategies, to steer our country out of what's at the time, was known and we realized this -- was the biggest crisis since the great depression. now she is once again being called on by president to serve our nation, and in an hour of even greater uncertainty, this time as chair. when she is confirmed doctor

cecilia rouse will be the first african american woman, to chair the presidents council on economic advisers. yet aside from the historic nature of her nomination, doctor ross is experience in both the obama and clinton administrations as well as her academic expertise make her eminently qualified for this role. as you pointed out, she currently serves as the dean of the princeton school of public and international affairs at princeton university, one of new jersey's most prestigious and nationally renowned institutions. her primary research and teaching interests are in labor economics with a particular focus on economics of education. indeed, dr. rouse has often said, she first became interested in economics as a tool to expand opportunity and create social change. she has studied the economic benefits of community college attendance, the effect of

financial aid on college matriculation, the impact of student loan debt on graduates and trading in the job market. she is also a strong advocate for reducing racial wealth inequality, an important priority as we grapple with the pandemic that has disproportionately devastated minority communities. dr. rouse is also a senior editor of the future of children and has served as an editor of the journal of labor economics. additionally, she is the founding director of the princeton university education research and former director of the industrial relations. i believe doctor rows has the right experience and insight to help chart a path for a country out of this crisis and towards a brighter, more equitable, and more prosperous america. i certainly will be urging my college both on the committee and the senate to support the swift confirmation as chair of economic advisers, and i look

forward to working with her to get our economy back on track and bringing much needed change inequity to our nation. >> thank you senator menendez. senator booker, you are recognized to introduce dr. rouse. >> chairman, i am grateful for you and senator brown as well for your leadership and for allowing me these moments for introductions for dr. rouse. if i may tread upon your grace, it is very hard for me to see martha fudge sitting before you without putting on the record just a touch of truth about her. i have been in the senate for seven years, and it is not an overstatement to say that one of my most invaluable colleagues and friends in that seven years is martha fudge. she is an extraordinary woman who has a deep kindness in her soul, and many of us who know her, she has been a big sister.

she has been a mentor and that is most certainly true in my life. i know she, like me, was a former mayor. as a mayor, you get the skill to bring people together to create common ground. i saw those skills on display when she was the chairwoman of the congressional black caucus, which is a very diverse groove. but also her ability from that position across the aisle to find common ground and get things done. i know this committee will deal a lot with her should she be confirmed and i think, as was said by senator portman, you will find in her a goodness and decency and, god willing, a friendship that i hope can be on both sides of the aisle and recognizes that it can be for you as it has been for me, one of the most valuable relationships i have. the only warning i will give about her is that don't try to

server indian food like i did, it's the only time i have seen or have harsh language. now, i would like to have the honor of just saying quickly some remarks about doctor rouse, who is president biden's nominee for the chairman of council of economic advisers. what a privilege it is to be able to affirm what has already been said by my senior senator menendez. if confirmed, dr. rouse will be tasked with enormous challenge of helping to craft and guide our nation's economic policy at a time of unprecedented economic crisis. across the country, this committee knows tens of millions of americans have lost their jobs, millions of our country men and women in this wealthy nation have been pushed into poverty food and security. with women, especially suffering and challenges being

seen amongst people of color and women of color in particular. the impact of this economic crisis has been savage and unequal and has compounded a lot of the realities that were already a grievance in our country. systemic inequality, historic disinvestment in black and brown communities, like the one that i live in. the washington post reported it most simply. they said the covid-19 recession is the most on equal in modern u.s. history. the economic crisis and the result and health crisis created by this pandemic has made clear how interconnected the challenges are that we face. these crises have also made clear how necessary it is for bold action and bold leadership. we must have people with the kind of competency, qualifications and commitment

that doctor rouse has. if confirmed, i strongly believe that dr. rows will offer the kind of leadership, vision and action needed to enact an economic agenda that really prioritizes working families. it rebuilds our economy in an inclusive way and addresses systemic barriers that have driven what is a real threat to our society as we know it wishes the wealth economic equality's have grown worse over my lifetime. i don't just say this because senator menendez, as you noted, that doctor ross is a crowd proud in new jersey in, the school of public and international affairs in princeton university. doctor rows is just renowned in her field. she is a well-known and celebrated labor economist, a leader in academia and the study of economic impact of diversity and inclusion and

knowing that these are elements that actually add to the economic strength of organizations in our country, public and private alike. she is a public servant who has served the member of the council of economic advisers in the obama, biden administration and on the national economic council in the clinton administration a special assistant to president clinton. if confirmed, dr. ross is confirmed as the first african american and fourth woman to lead the council of economic advisers since established 74 years ago. if the committee moves forward, it will be historic in that sense. she will not just make history if confirmed. i am confident she will help shape the future that is more resonant with our common values as a people. she will be a force to making our nations beyond the arc of that moral universe, moral towards liberty and justice for all. i urge my colleagues to swiftly

confirm doctor rouse's nomination. thank you for this time. >> thank you senator booker. i will now swear in the nominees. because of the remote format of today's hearing, i will swear in each nominee individually. congresswoman fudge, will you please rise and raise your right hand? >> do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> i do. >> do you agree to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of the senate? congresswoman fudge, can you hear me? having a little trouble with your audio. why don't we work on that

technical challenge here and we will move on and ask dr. rows if you will please rise and raise your right hand? doctor rows, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> i do. >> do you agree to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of the senate? >> i do. >> you may sit down. congresswoman fudge, are you able to hear me? we do not, we cannot hear your audio. okay, so i was going to recognize you first, congresswoman fudge, but because we have this technical difficulty, i will go to doctor rows for her opening statement and then, hopefully we will have gotten the problem solved in the meantime. we are not able to hear you. >> can you hear me now, sir? >> now, i can hear you. yes. so, i am sorry to impose on you

again. we could not hear your response to the second question in the oath. if you don't mind, please stand and raise your right hand again. the question is, do you agree to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of the senate? >> yes, i do. >> thank you very much. you may sit down. each of your written statements will be made part of the record and their entirety. congresswoman fudge, please proceed with your statement. >> thank you very much mister chairman. if i may, mister chairman, my i introduce my family that is with me today? >> absolutely. >> thank you. >> you have heard a lot about my mother today. i have to have her way that you. if you can sear. this is the rest of all of my family. my stepfather, all of my cousins and dear friends. so, i just wanted you to be aware that we are all here together and i'm very close to my family and i'm pleased that they can be with me today. to law my senators, thank you

for your kind words and certainly for your friendship. mr. chairman, mr. ranking member, i think president biden for nominating me to serve as the 18th secretary of housing and urban development. we will do everything possible to ensure that every american has a roof over their head. the housing issues our nation faces are real. varied and touch all of us. i am a strong believer in the departments programs and its mission, especially with regard to serving those who faced the greatest need. senators, i have dedicated my entire life to public service. and to working to help low income families, seniors and communities. i believe i am up to the challenge that is before me. as mayor of orangeville heights, ohio, i saw firsthand the need for economic development and affordable housing. we improve the city's tax base and improved on affordable housing opportunity. as a member of congress, i challenge the unique challenges

of my district, working with the delegation and across the aisle. our housing issues do not fit into a mold and i know that the same is true as each of your states. we need policies and programs that can adapt to meet your unique housing challenges. i would very much like to work with each of you to find the right answers for your states. it bears mentioning, particularly, in this moment of crisis, that hud, perhaps more than any other department, exists to serve the most vulnerable people in america. that mandate matters a great deal to me. it is consistent with my own values and it is precisely what has always motivated me to service. it is estimated that, on any given night, in 2019, more than 500,000 people experienced homelessness in america. that is a devastating to statistic. even before you consider the reality of what covid-19 has done to exacerbate this crisis,

according to one study, 21 million americans currently pay more than 30% of their income on housing, because of lost income and unemployment due to covid-19. one in five renters and one in ten homeowners with a mortgage are behind in their housing payments. native housing is also in crisis with far too many families living in substandard and overcrowded housing conditions on reservations. although congress provided 25 billion in assistance and the cdc extended this, this is not enough at a time or tens of millions of americans are behind on rent. almost 3 million homeowners are currently -- another 800,000 borrowers are delinquent. much like covid-19, the housing crisis is not isolated by geography. it is the daily reality for tens of millions of our fellow americans. people in blue states and red states, in cities and small towns.

my first priority as secretary would be to alleviate that crisis and get people the support they need to come back from the edge. we need to expand resources for hud this program to people who are eligible. today, according to a 2017 study, only one out of five eligible households receive housing assistance. we need to deliver on the administrations conditions on improving quality, safety and accessibility of affordable housing and building 1.5 million new affordable homes. we need to make the dream of homeownership a reality, and the security of wealth creation that comes with it. it needs to be a reality for all americans. that will require us to end discriminatory practices in the housing market and ensure that our fair housing rules are doing what they are intended to do. opening the door for families, especially families of color, who have been systematically kept out in the cold across generations, to buy homes and

punch their tickets in the middle class. there are so many issues we need to come together to address. everything from bringing capital back to disinvested communities, to increasing energy efficiency and housing, to dealing with the dangers of lead based paint, to taking on our crisis of homelessness with compassion and resolve. these are only some of the challenges, and i know that many of you have additional priorities as well. these problems are urgent but they are not beyond our capacity to solve. the only way we will meet them is by working together. to that and i pledge this, if i have the -- thought if i am confirmed i will be accessible to you and i will listen to you. and i will be a partner to you to solve the housing challenges that our constituents are facing back home. and i welcome the accountability, and i will always strive to be a transparent and good faith partner. as we work together to do the vitally important work we're here to do.

helping families in need. i thank you and i yield back. >> thank you congresswoman the marcia fudge. >> thank you and thank you senator booker and then this for the introductions. members of the committee, it is an honor to put appear before you today. last time i was before this committee was in 2009. was to become one of president obama's economic advisers. i was accompanied by many different many of my family. and while they are not with me today there with me and spirit. i love the help they have provided to me in giving me the path i'm on today. in the 19 eighties it was one of the worst spikes are economy at hit. i was a freshman in college, and i was there because my wise

mother had told me to take an economics class. what really peaked my interest was unemployment. when i could see how classroom material could be applied to the world outside, and the millions who experience it in realtime, the effects of a struggling economy. i was drawn to the discipline, because i want to know why this was happening. why had jobs disappeared? what could be done to bring them back? i focus my work on the labor market, and in particular on the impact of education on people's jobs prospects. way to tear down barriers on job prospects, and have more people achieve economic and long lasting security. i have had the honor of working on important issues inequity mia and on a the economic sector. today we are living through the worst economic situation since the great depression. families all the security they have worked so hard to build, has been gone overnight by the

economic impact of the pandemic. many are in hardship and hopelessness. inequities that have always existed within our economy, have not just been exposed but exacerbated. the impact more devastating than ever before. we might take action to shepherd our economy back into solid footing. but even as difficult as this economic fallout has been, it's an opportunity to rebuild the economy better than it was before. making it work for everyone, by increasing the availability of jobs, and leaving no one vulnerable to fall through the trump the cracks. president biden, and vice president harris that have tried to help improve this. my job is to help them with guidance, to help them achieve the important goals. as important as it is for them to interpret academic research,

it's vital that we provide the right data, to focus on the average outcomes, instead of looking at a range of outcomes. as a result are analysis told us about the average economic growth in the middle of distribution, but as our country grows more and more in equal, the experience unfortunately for the many people that left behind especially people of color. therefore one of my priorities, will be to understand how policies will impact all in our country, as we strive for an economy that works for everyone. equally important is having an analysis conducted. if confirmed, i will staff it with the well-rounded team, ready to have the breadth of challenges we face. to close i'm honored to be nominated for this position, it would allow me to work with issues that are close to my heart especially in this economic crisis. a good fulfilling job has always been great at building

security. today we are failing to fulfill that promise. but there is much we can do to strengthen the position that everyone will prosper in this incredible country of ours. i will work closely with you, regardless of policy affiliation, or your opinion opinion of the administration's efforts. i will gather and analyze information, and consider innovative perspectives. that's how i will approach this job, and my door will always be open. and with that i'm happy to take your questions. >> thank you doctor ross i will now recognize myself i remind their colleagues we have a lot of members on the committee and we have to stick to the clock. congresswoman marcia fudge to collect your quote from 2020, you referred to republicans who wanted to fill justice ginsburg seat, which is to say every single republican senator, as

having no decency, no honor and no integrity, and is a disgrace to the nation. those are quotes. do you stand by that statement? >> let me first say, senator that i think there are more to those quotes, but let me suggest that i'm always that i've been always able to work across the aisle. i have a reputation, that shows my bipartisanship, and yes i do listen to my constituents, and sometimes i am passionate about things. is my tone pitch perfect all the time it is not, but i do know this, that i have the ability, and the capacity, to work with republicans and i intend to do just that. and that is my commitment to. >> in june of last year, while discussing republican policing and reform efforts, you said in part that if republicans quote, want to save face and let this

country know that they care just a little bit about people of color which i don't believe they do, but if they want to try i do want to listen. do you believe that republicans do not care a little bit about people of color? >> i think the latter part of my statement is my true feeling if they do i do want to listen. i do listen. i've always listened. i am one of the most bipartisan members in the house of representatives, and i think if you check my record will reflect that. >> let me ask you about the issue of deploying the aid pa, and president biden as you know, has directed the royal hud secretary to examine examine the effects of the impact role. and if you are confirmed and you carry out that examination, and conclude that revisions to the rules are needed, will you comply with the a pa and go

through a robust notice on rulemaking rather than merely trying to revert automatically back to the previous rule? >> that's a great question senator, and i am one to follow the law, and follow the rules. and you don't have to rebut that that is my commitment to you. >> there is some flexibility within the ap as you know, that what i'm interested in, is whether you are ready to go through the notice and comment period, so you can get as much input as possible and get the most informed judgment going forward? is that something you are willing to do? >> yes that's something i'm willing to consider so yes. >> i assume that you would ensure that any revisions, that you would make would be consistent with the supreme court ruling in the inclusive ruling committee. >> yes i will support the law but if i'm a senator, i listen to your opening statement, and

you are talking about unintended consequences. i kind of look at the disparate impact rule the same way. we do things oftentimes, not intending to be discriminatory, but our effect is discriminatory. >> i understand that, and that is worthy of a whole lengthy conversation, but in the interest of keeping to my five minute limit, i want to touch on another issue if i could. that is the mutual mortgage insurance fund. again, this is a fund that protects taxpayers from losses, and if you decide to make changes, specifically any lowering of the premiums for that fund, will you commit to making sure that you do that in a collaborative fashion, with members of congress? >> you have my commitment, not only if i am fortunate enough to be confirmed, i will talk to the staff, at hug and we will figure out what the status is

right now. then i will come back to you to have discussions about that. >> thank you. >> and doctor that cecilia rouse i appreciated our discussion in the day, and i enjoyed it, and i would like to stress or maybe just ask, is it your view that when the government -- eliminates a certain economic policy it is often the case it there is unintended consequences in costs, that policies that might also have benefits? >> thank you senator, and what is important, is that when the government imposes mandates, it does so understanding the potential benefits of such mandates, as well as the cost. and to undertake those mandates, the benefit has to outweigh this cost. but >> one of the most important thing is to understand both costs and benefits. so thank you senator brown?

>> i would like to first of all, i think the fact that senator portman, called congressman them marcia fudge and asked to introduce her, tells a lot about her bipartisan work. you know we all are outspoken about our views, as i am, and pat toomey is, and we all are. and the i have no that this congressman will marcia fudge work with me, and you know overwhelmingly in some cases republican, and she reports to them, and she responds to your constituents with passion. and let me ask one thing, congressman fudge, that families in our country were struggling to make rent prior to the pandemic, there were apparently 1 million convictions every year. and of course the pandemic pushed so many millions of

families over the edge. and that's one of the reasons i am so proud of what we did with -- because we kept 12 million people out of poverty. but these payments are just a down payment, and president biden's tried to stop millions of people, from taking a permanent financial hit because of the crisis, so give us a short version, of what you will do to ensure that families don't lose their homes? >> thank you so much senator. >> one of things we must do is stabilize the market. we cannot afford to have people, millions of people evicted from their homes, or their apartments because the problem then just gets worse. it does not get better. and i understand there are some who believe that we are about we are doing more than what we should do, but i believe we're not doing enough. on any given day, we have 8

million people who need housing. not only do we need to protect those who are currently in housing, but we need to ensure that those who are without housing have it. so one of the things we have to talk about is finding ways to expand our inventory of low and moderate income housing. we have to keep people in public housing who are already there. we need to expand housing choices. so we can at least start to reduce the number of people who are paying exorbitant amounts of money for rent. we need to find ways to assist people additionally who want to build both income and affordable housing. we do that through many things. but lastly most importantly, we want to be sure that f-h. a, is available for people who want to take the next step. so that maybe helping with down payment assistance, it may mean

reducing rent. whatever it takes we cannot afford to allow people, in the midst of a pandemic, you know to be put on the street. i believe extraordinary times take extraordinary actions. and we are in extraordinary times. >> thank you very much congresswoman, let me ask you the last four years, just as yes or no question, the trump administration tried to undo fair housing laws, we talked about that a lot, and the president had executive order and plans to try to reverse these policies, of the fair housing act, but the if my question is if confirmed will you will you pursue the fair housing laws will you follow them. >> yes. >> cities like cleveland, so have far too many homes that expose children to lead paint, and in 2019 reacher siege found

their elementary schools, and marcia fudges from my hometown in cleveland, where there were high levels of elevated levels of lead in their blood. five and six year olds disproportionately as we know and it is children of color and we start them out in life with such a disadvantage. doctor ross, you are a researcher who studies education and is connected to work. you know the cost, both moral and economic that occurs when our fellow citizens are unable to achieve their full potential, especially when it -- we know how to keep sick kates safe from lead poisoning. my colleague, the most senior resident of this committee has worked on this and his appropriations will also, we just have not had the public collective, political will to do it. i hope that is going to change, i look forward to working with

both of you, dr. ross and congressman fudge to protect our kids from lead and other threats. it's hard to imagine anything more important. >> thank you senator brown. senator scott? >> thank you mister chairman. to congresswoman fudge as well as doctor rouse, thank you for your willingness to serve our country. i look forward to having a meaningful dialog about some of the issues that will be very important to the nation, and frankly, congresswoman fudge, i have a respect for you and in appreciation for you. i think you and i are philosophically disjointed on a number of issues, but your willingness to serve is strong. i do want to talk a little bit about some of the previous comments that you made about the public authorities released to rates. i would not say that they were taken out of context, but i would love to have a conversation about how the republican party has been on the needs of the most vulnerable people in this country, specifically

minorities over the last several years, i have certainly played a role in making sure that some of the priorities that tax our community have been brought to the surface, to the top and have been prioritized by the republican party. just in a few, i will get to the questions that i have. the highest level for hbcus. the lowest unemployment rate, ever recorded pre-pandemic in history of this country for half african americans, hispanics, asians. research on rare blood diseases to include sickle cell anemia, criminal justice reform had actually frankly made up for some of the challenges of mr. biden back in the 94 law. increased labor force person per participation. i believe homeownership for african americans around 41%, and that's today at 46%, and that is even after the pandemic. poverty at the lowest rate since 1959. aide to black farmers that i've worked on who are sitting on

areas property is a real issue coming from the south. i understand and appreciate the value of allowing african american farmers to use areas property in a way to obtain foreign members, so that they can participate fully in the usda. . finally, opportunity zones that are having a positive, strong impact throughout this country. frankly, the tcja certainly was passed on a partisan level only, but the opportunities own legislation, is legislation that was cosponsored by cory booker and house members that are democrats. to that end, i hope and my question for you is, can i count on you to take serious the opportunity to use opportunity zones as a way of meeting some of the challenging needs that we have from a housing point around the country? >> nice to see you, actually.

it's my pleasure to have a conversation with you about what you have done as it relates to minority communities and communities that are hurting. it would indeed be something that i would like to discuss with you. as it relates to opportunity zones, i will take them seriously, of course, opportunity zones. certainly i would like to, if confirmed, to get into the office and look at how many drops have been created. how many sustainable jobs have been created. what the cost is been. i think that you have to be driven by data and i will absolutely take it seriously. i know it's something that's important to you and we would be happy to have those conversations going forward >> thank you. i will note that an opportunity zones, they are responsible for helping even in columbus, ohio, 50 incarcerated individuals in columbus, five housing, 95 years of workforce housing, 100 new jobs in cleveland, in my state, hampton county, a very poor, rural community, 1500 jobs in the community that only

has 5000 jobs brought to them by opportunity zones that continues throughout major cities from birmingham to iraq ville, south carolina, where we use the opportunity zones to really challenge the playing field for those folks who have been left out and who are desperate for housing. speaking of being desperate for housing, about 22 million americans live in manufactured housing throughout this country one in five in south carolina the definition of manufactured housing is no longer the trailers that people come to mind. manufactured housing has the diversity within its construct. i would love to hear that you have an interest in perhaps even a passion for making sure that we continue to prioritize manufacturing housing is one of the ways for us to lower the cost and make more homeowners more possible for more americans. have you done any homework on the manufacturing housing? i would love to hear your thoughts on using that to meet some of the needs that we have

throughout the community. >> yes, i have, as a matter of fact. thank you for the question. i have done research, i have actually had conversations with those build manufactured housing. i think it is an outstanding option. the cost is about 78 to 100,000 dollars a home. it is affordable, it is something that we can do rapidly i am 100% supportive of looking more into how we incorporate manufactured housing >> thank you man, thank you chairman. >> thank you senator scott. >> thank you very much mister chairman. i want to welcome congresswoman fudge and dr. rouse to the hearing. both doctor rouse, thank you for your service to rhode island. . as a member of the board of trustees, we welcome you i want to say to the congresswoman, thank you for your great work in congress. we have all touched upon affordable housing. sometimes, we see it simply as

the human course, which is tremendous. there is a definite economic cost to the incentive to build more affordable housing. in and around 90% of our homeless individuals are on medicaid their cost per animal is about 14,000 dollars. 80% more than the overall average medicaid recipient. so, when you address the affordable housing issue, i hope you will point out consistently the economic benefits of affordable housing as well as the human cost. thank you. any comments, i would appreciate >> yes thank you senator for the conversation that we have had to discuss some of the issues that i know are important to you. the economic cost are in the trillions. if you look at the data. the data shows that it is an economic deterrent to not have housing. when you look at the loss of

jobs, the loss of income and the loss development opportunities, it is more difficult for people to get to work, so we lose so much when we don't have decent, affordable public housing. the cost of homelessness is just skyrocketing, it was bad before we ever address covid. now we have found out, is the cost of care, for homeless people is skyrocketing as a result of covid. because homeless people tend to be sick or, they tend to contract the disease more often. poor people are live in covid housing, and they contract it more often. and just physically as well as economically. >> thank you very much congresswoman, let me associate myself also with senator brown's comments on lead. we've had the same problem as you've had in cleveland. we probably have the same age

of housing. and i've worked with chairman collins on the housing committee. and one of the things i would like to point out, as you recognized clearly, with the pandemic or particularly low income people, are spending time crowded in homes, which may have led problems. so the problem is even more acute today because of the pandemic. and we have to apply the resources to that. i know you agree, but i really just want to get down and say that. >> yes i agree 100 percent. >> thank you. again doctor thank you for your help you know to rhode island, that we have ties to that state, and we appreciate your help, and one issue i want to raise in the brief time remaining, is automatic stabilizers, for unemployment insurance, in rhode island asked during the last recession, and you notice because you are working in the

administration. that some states came out first, so the overall national picture looked pretty good, but ask -- and nevada was going head to head every week to see who would have the highest unemployment unemployment rate. so as we go forward i hope this will stabilize this, because you know it's not just one region perhaps but that that one region or to agents would not be left behind. when the economy is growing. >> thank you senator and yes, go rhode island. and i think that automatic stabilizers are an important tool as we think about how we deal with our economic issues, and help families in our economy recover. and where we have them, in terms of snap, and medicaid, and taxes and they should be part of it. i think it's a natural place for us to have other stabilizers, and also looking at the country in a while

geography would be an important design. there are challenges there. -- i think it's an important place for us to -- . >> think you very much and good luck to both of you. thank you mister chairman. >> thank you senator reid. i would just remind senators to turn on your camera if you are attending and just so we know you are there, i think next up is senator cotton? >> thank you mister chairman, congresswoman, president biden and his senior advisers has said, while his top housing priorities is racial equity, not racial equality. and earlier this week president biden used a phrase, racial equity, and then he had said what's the difference between racial equity and racial equality? >> thank you for the question senator, from my own

perspective, the difference is that one means that you treat everybody the same. sometimes the saying, is not equitable. you know if you said to me, that i'm going to give you five dollars, and i will give my friend five dollars. my five dollars is not going to necessarily, go as far, because my friend already has you know they're wealthy, and they have a lot more. but let's do it this way they say let's make everything equal. but it's not equal, because even though i'm a of the qualifications to qualify for a home for a loan, and i've got the right credit scores is destructive, i don't have down payment money, because my parent can't afford to give it to me. there is no welcoming to me. where most people who are basically who don't look like me, have options i do not have. so just to treat is all the same, is not the same. equity means making the playing

field level. sometimes it's not level, if you say let's treat everybody the same. >> okay so racial equality, means treating everybody the same. >> yes the same is not always fair that's correct. >> so just to be clear, it sounds like racial equity, means treating people differently based on the race. >> not based on race, but it could be based on economics, on the history of discrimination that has existed for a long time. and it could be based on educational levels, it could be based on many things. not necessarily just race. >> is it ever appropriate for the government to treat people differently based on the race? >> no. >> thank you. and i want to return to something that came up with senator toomey. you had said last year, september 2020, during the debate about justice ruth bader

ginsburg's about her replacement, she said those who are bent on choosing her replacement, you said they are disgrace to this nation they have no honor or decency. if i recall correctly, pat toomey, wanted to replace justice's ginsburg, and you believe he has no integrity and is a disgrace to this nation? >> sir first off, i don't know senator toomey. i'm certainly he is not he seems like fine. >> your audio cut out for a moment. the >> can you hear me now? >> yes ma'am >> we'll all say for the record, but i believe that senator julie, does have decency honor and integrity. but i want to turn to another moment last year, in june 2020, and we talk about policing

reform, and you said we have them, meaning republicans, and right now the president has tim scott coming up trying to come up with a bill. and they know they can't do it without us. so if they want to say pace and let this country know that they care even a little bit about people of color which i don't believe they do but if they want to try, i want to listen. congresswoman fudge, do you believe that tim scott does not care even a little bit about people of color? >> tim scott happens to be a friend. i support and trust tim scott. . >> can you answer my question please? he said they care even a little bit about people of color, which i don't believe they do. that be referring to republicans, about tim scott, who he is one, does he care about people of color? >> he is one, but i'm not talking about all republicans. tim scott clearly is a fine,

upstanding senator and i do believe he cares. >> okay, thank you congresswoman fudge. i could go on. there's a long history of indifferent comments, such as this. obviously we sometimes say things we hope we can take back. if you are confirmed, you will be serving the needs of many republicans, democrats, non partisan people as well. i hope that in the future, you can serve them in a way that reflects the best moments in congress and not some of these comments. . >> i thank you. i do serve people now, republicans are democrats. >> thank you senator cotton. senator menendez. >> thank you mister chairman. i will just make a comment. you know, if intemperate comments or harsh comments are the standard, i presided as the ranking member of the senate former relations committee, over an enormous number of individuals who would have

never gotten through the committee and certainly republicans overwhelming voted for them. . and their comments, in my head, have been seen in the same context i understand the nature of political comments at the end of the day. i believe, from everything i have seen of congresswoman fudge, that she will will work for all people, democrats and republicans. white, black, brown, native americans and others. let me just turn to a question of eviction and housing crisis that displaces millions of american families and firmly destabilizes our country. as of this moment, 2.7 million homeowners are in forbearance plans. as of last month, nearly one in five of adult renters were not cut up on rent. as with any american crisis, the situation is particularly dire for minority communities. talking about equity and those issues. as of last month, 28% of black renters, 24% of latino renters, say they were not caught up on

the rand, compared to only 12% of white renters. in previous crisis cities, housing counseling has helped family stay in their homes congresswoman fudge, do you believe providing additional funding for housing council-y will help prevent evictions and foreclosures in this crisis as well? >> thank you so much for the question, senator. i actually do believe that counseling is a major part of assisting people, whether it is staying in their homes, or continuing to pay the rent. we have programs that are available to people that they are not aware of because we don't provide the resources to make them aware. so counseling should be at the top of our list, especially as we try to work our way out of this crisis. >> i agree with you very much as a matter of fact, according to the national community reinvestment coalition, for example, loans to home buyers that receive counseling perform better. in 2017, 74% of housing counseling clients were people of color.

that is why i hope you will work with me and help me pass my coronavirus housing counseling investment act. i think it would help all of our families. under the last administration, hug relocated key multi family housing staff from his office in newark to the new york regional offices. former mayor, you both understand, it represents a significant challenge for the over 750 multi family properties that exist in new jersey. can you commit to me that you will ensure that the newark office has the staff it needs and that new jersey, in its interests, remains a priority with hud? >> yes, i can commit that to you sir. >> dr. rouse, last week i asked secretary yellen about the importance of fiscal relief to our state and local governments that continued to fight the pandemic and keep our essential workers on the job and off the unemployment line she agreed

that now would not be the time to withhold fiscal support from state and local governors. do you agree with that? >> yes, senator. i do share janet yellen's view, which is that our prime focus right now has to be on getting us through this pandemic, to provide aid to our households, businesses, especially small businesses, but also we need to ensure that our state and local governments can be providing for the firefighters, the transit workers, the first responders and our educators as they are stepping up in ways that they would have not budgeted for last year. i would also highlight, that in our last recession, not providing relieved, well we provided relief to state and local governments, but it was the job losses there that provided a drag on the recovery. so, to ensure that we have a swift return back to economic wealth, providing aid in local governments as part of that package. >> thank you.

finally, congresswoman fudge, and i appreciate this visit that we had eight years ago, new jersey faced the worst natural disaster in our state's history, super storm sandy, causing havoc throughout the state. new jersey families are now finding themselves, after having traveled the convoluted procedures where they got some assistance from fema, from hud to rebuild their lives and get them back in now finding themselves being caught in a maze of which there is an effort to pull back some of those money. i hope that you can work with us to provide flexibility to these then sandy survivors in new jersey. >> absolutely senator. i appreciate you informing me and getting me up to speed on the situation. if confirmed, it would be one of the early things that i take on. >> the thank you senator menendez.

senator reynolds >> thank you mister chairman. congresswoman fudge, first of all, thank you very much for the opportunity yesterday to visit with you i appreciated our conversation as i discussed with you at that time, i suspected that a number of my colleagues before i had the opportunity to speak would address the issues of some of the statements that you made in the past. i would like to move on to another particular area of concern that i thought we may very well find some agreement on that has to do with our native americans and the housing shortages on reservations. i represent a state, south dakota, that has nine tribes all of whom our are sovereign and who have a lot of land in what we call trust i would like to draw your attention to the provision of the last funding bill, then i championed. it is in hud's section 184

loaning program. as i mentioned in our conversation, living on tribal trust lands is a difficult process. the loans are meant to provide mortgage help where it is scares to be delayed by a slow exchange of title information between the dea and hug the provision would allow hud to issue the certificates to issue a 184 alone without waiting for the ba, if they agreed to identify hud for any losses. this would significantly streamline the program, but hud would have to proactively look work with individual lenders and serve americans -- a lot of them are very local members and they don't know how to handle a lot of the individuals that are there and the challenges they have on a personal basis in order to get that law approved. if confirmed, would you commit to work with me and our native american stakeholders in south dakota to making the hud

section 184 lending program a success? >> thank you again for meeting with me yes, you have my commitment to work with you. i have had the opportunity to reach out to a number of native american stakeholders. we had conversations about some of the issues that you have addressed and i know, firsthand, having been on a reservation, how difficult that situation is. i am wholly supportive of seeing what we can do to make things better. >> thank you doctor rouse, i would like to thank you also for your willingness to have a phone call with us and also for your willingness to serve as i mentioned in our phone conversation, there have been significant economic disparities between states like south dakota, where social distancing comes naturally and the larger more populated states that have experienced a significant spread of covid-19 how are you providing counsel to the president and he gave no manners? how do you believe covid-19

assistance can be targeted for those who need it most while being mindful of the fact that the law in the territory of spending money will basically, we will be borrowing. i know that we talk about state and local governments, but the need and the demand varies a lot from state to state. trying to target the assistance seems to be a really sensitive issue right now. can you talk a little bit about how you are planning on balancing your recommendations to the president? recognizing that we still have needs, but also recognizing that every single dollar that we intend to offer is money that we will be borrowing and probably the next two generations will have to pay back. >> yes senator. thank you. i appreciated our conversation yesterday. if we take a step back and think about the purpose of the federal assistance right now, it's that we want to both provide assistance to people today, while ensuring that our

economy grows, so that future generations are better off so, i do want to get us to the other side of this pandemic. >> doctor rouse, i apologize. you are cutting out. i will put this in as a question for the record and i will just simply ask that you get back to me on that particular one. thank you doctor else let me move back to congresswoman vouch for just a second. we did not have the opportunity to address this in our conversation yesterday. one of the major outstanding issues from the 2008 financial crisis is housing finance reform. that does not have a primary jurisdiction over this matter, but nonetheless, your work on housing will be important in deciding what to do with the gse's. are there any thoughts you would like to share with us as what you want to happen or any exit on coke and servants it

should look like? >> the one thing i would say, one of the things that we have not done as a nation is have a holistic approach to housing. at some point, we need to have a collaborative description between fha, the treasury, hud and i would say that this is such a huge issue and has such big implications. we are talking about a five trillion dollar business. i believe that just as congress has chartered these gse's it is congress's ultimate decision as to how they should be handled. i believe that this is such a big issue, that congress should be involved. >> thank you i look forward to working on that issue with you in the future >> thank you. >> thank you mister chairman. i want to start by thanking both congresswoman fudge and doctor rouse for being here today. i appreciate your willingness to serve.

i just want to spin off of senator rouse's last point and that's the point you make, congresswoman fudge. there are so many times in government, and we were just talking about broadband yesterday, there are four five agencies, you just talked about the number of agencies and the number of housing. you know very well, being a congress person, congress is really renowned for getting things done, that's why we have the number of executive orders that have gone out in the last two administrations. i would appreciate, i think you are right, congress does need to act. in the meantime, i would appreciate if you can break down the silence in the housing arena in particular, because i think that is one of the things on our economy. in that regard, i want to discuss with you a little bit about in your position at hud, what will you do to support affordable workforce housing and rehabilitation? >> thank you very much and

thank you for our visit. so hud as mission is to provide housing, low income and affordable housing. so, i support that mission by saying that we need to expand as we talked about, expand housing choices. it is something that we must do. we need to find resources to assist with paying rents, with down payments. we all know that when we come out of this crisis, whatever that is, people are not going to be able to just say, i'm 14 months behind in rent and i can just fall back right now. we know that is not going to happen. we have to come up with a cohesive policy to allow people to know that the government is going to be assisting them and we have many ways to do it. certainly, fha comes within the control and the jurisdiction, but the others don't, but i again believe that the only way

that we saw with any of these problems is to do it through inter agencies, to talk about what that policy should be, and that is the only way we saw these issues is to come together. >> also spinning off of senator rounds comment, i would hope that you have somebody in hug if you are confirmed, somebody in hud that is able to deal with the number of programs that impact indian housing, which is incredibly efficient. senator booker was on earlier today and we had a conversation about poverty in inter cities and poverty with large lambast drives. they are both significant problems and i hope that someday, your agency is willing to work with the ba to get some housing built because quite frankly, it is massively deficient. you don't need to respond to that. just do that. if you could, if you are confirmed. my last question is for cecilia

i should've said this. thank you for meeting with us. i appreciate the conversation. we are in the middle of a pandemic, which has caused the economy to go into recession, it depression some will say, it depends on what's area of business you are in. i want to know your perspective as we are talking about borrow money, as we talk about a lot, it is certainly concerning, but i want to know your perspective on how we spend money right now, especially if it is borrowed, to move, as you said, to move the country out of a potential decline in economic growth? >> thank you senator and i apologize for my connection, i am going with an ear piece now. so, i do believe that the best way for us to get back on solid

economic footing is by getting through this pandemic and that means supporting households, supporting businesses, especially small businesses. supporting our state and local governments if we don't, we run the risk of actually finding ourselves in a downward spiral, because the capacity to deal with our debt is not only the amount that we spend, but the size of our economy. if we want to keep our economy going, we need to spend some money. i believe we have to be doing some more investments that come out of this that have economic return, such a as those investment infrastructure, education, so that we put our economy on a strong footing, so that it is growing for future generations. >> i assume, when you say smart of estimates, you are saying that monies that are appropriated by congress need to be targeted. >> they need to be targeted, they need to be smart, they need to be in those areas where we know the economic benefit outweighs the cost. >> thank you both for your willingness to serve thank you mister chairman. >> thank you senator?

>> thank you chairman. brown and thanks to congresswoman rouse and yale for being here and congratulations to your family, congresswoman i love seeing my mom in the background and yours is there too. really quick question for you congresswoman. congresswoman fudge, i should say. do you recognize the backlog of the changes passed by the manufacturing of manufactured housing princesses committee? do you recognize those? >> yes, i do. >> and, on an unrelated note, congresswoman, i remember when i was speaker of the house down in north carolina, i met with a town that was in my district and it was on affordable housing, which i was supported significantly in north carolina. about 45 minutes, one of the things that we can do to produce affordable housing,

they request that i support a bill that would mandate a sprinkler in single family housing for fires, for 100,000 dollar homes, it would increase the cost of the home by about 15,000 dollars. it really made you start thinking about barriers to affordable housing that can potentially be in overreach and serve the communities. i had this discussion with dr. parsons about, when we have to prioritize limited funds for affordable housing, what are your thoughts on potentially looking at jurisdictions that have a need for affordable housing, but may have overreached on the barriers to that, purely through regulatory overreach? as a means for kind of prioritizing what these limited dollars to address affordable housing problems. >> thank you for the question, senator. i think everything is on the table i mean, we have to look at regulations, we also have to look at safety. we have to be sure that if we

want to put people on housing, we have to do it in the most efficient, effective and safe way so, i believe all of those things are on the table it will be something that i will be happy to discuss with you and take a good look at. >> thank you. if confirmed, i would like to talk about things that we absolutely have to regulate to make sure that people have a safe home. but maybe, you let the regulatory part in certain jurisdictions be instructed towards grants and other things that may they may be eligible for. again, congresswoman fudge and family, congratulations on your nomination. thank you for your service. long time service to your community doctor rouse, i have a question. before covid, we had an economy that i think, by most measures, was moving in the right direction i believe that a part of that where some of the tax cuts and jobs not all of it, there were other factors that

were significantly contributing factors to the economic growth. we understand that president biden is going to propose tax increases, and particularly corporate tax increases would is your position on how we move forward and best position our economy to grow as we continue to make progress on the vaccine and reopen the economy? do you think an increase in corporate taxes called for? >> senator tillis, thank you for that question that you landed on an important question, which is that we understand that now, in order to get to the other side of the pandemic, the federal government needs to step and. as we get to the other side and get back on the path for economic growth, i think it is important that we look at the federal budget and think about the important investments that we need to make in order to improve economic growth, but also understand how are we going to pay for those investments now?

i believe we should be taking a comprehensive look at that. the president has committed in saying that he wants to look at a rate of tax options, but that he believes that individuals and corporations should pay their fair share this is not to say that there is just an automatic appeal of the tax credits that were passed before, but we need to look at the most important ways that we can raise revenue in the most economically efficient way possible, but ensuring that everybody is paying their fair share. >> thank you. i will be submitting questions to both of you. thank you very much. again, congratulations on your nominations. >> thank you very much. >> thank you senator tillis senator warner. >> thank you mister chairman thank you incoming chair brown. congratulations to both nominees i have enjoyed our conversations together.

i'm going to direct most of my comments this morning to doctor rouse. congresswoman fudge knows that housing finance reform, this is an issue that is extraordinarily important to me and i look forward to revisiting it should you be confirmed doctor ross, one of the things that came out of the first cares package that i think was extraordinarily significant long term was that when we did the expansion, there were two component parts. one part that is a 600-dollar-plus, which was controversial the other parties broadbased support, which is the expansion to cover self employed, gig workers, independent contractors, a whole host of folks we have discussed the universe of workers in that type of work and it's not going away i think it is terribly important that we have such a contract that includes all forms of work i

hope there would be a further expansion of benefits to those workers, including a component of affordability. something that i've worked on for a long time. can you speak to how we continue, speaking of unemployment to start, how do we continue this commitment to unemployment on this expanded basis? obviously it continued in december with the package, i was proud of that, but at some point, it cannot be entirely federal government obligation. we've got to have those will payers to come in as well. can you speak to your goal law about how we can make this work? >> senator, i share your interest and commitment to this issue and, in fact, i will say it is part of what draws me to this opportunity and i think it is part of the better part of build back better. that is to recognize that much

of our social contract, as you describe it, was designed in the 1930s. it was designed for a labor contract, or relationship between workers and their employees that is different than what we have today. if we take our you i system, for example. today, the system is not providing the kind of safety a used to do. many workers are not covered, less than half of workers are actually covered. the replacement rate has been falling it was designed for short term unemployment spells and what we were observing is that unemployment spells were becoming longer and our ui system is not designed to help their. yet, we know that for both health workers to get through and economic ability, ui plays an important role i share your view i look forward to working with you and others i think broadening the base of workers that are covered is important, whether that is through portable benefits, whether that is through how we classify

workers there are many options that are on the table. if confirmed, i would want to work with my team and with all of you to find ways to what i will call modernize our ui system and other parts of our safety net, so that it reflects and honors the changing nature of work in our economy. >> thank you let me quickly get in my next question, which is we want to make sure this economic recovery is equitable. again, i think we took a major step forward i want to thank so many of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle folks like tim scott and mike crepe oh when we included the drop and labor investment act in the last covid package, which puts 12 plain orders in two -- senator brown has been a bit advocate of this making sure there was equitable access to

capital, making sure we implement that program right and helping businesses that were disproportionately hurt by covid and implementing the program was really important. another component is the fact that, you know, in the great recession, we saw three quarters of the jobs that were lost were jobs only required a high school education coming forward, we are seeing the three quarters of jobs being created our college based education. we can attack that at a student debt level, but we can also have senators to have businesses start in symptoms to have businesses start investing in human capital you and i have talked about the idea of changing tax and accounting practices i've used up all my time, and i want to ask you. i think jon kennedy is waiting anxiously, but i know we talked about this before, but i hope we can continue this conversation on an equitable

economic recovery. >> thank you >> thank you senator warner for taking the clock senator kennedy >> thank you mister chairman congresswoman, can you hear me okay? >> yes, i can hear you find >> first, it's an honor to meet you. i don't want to put too fine a point on this, but it's important to me personally too clear up the confusion that i have from your answer to one of the chairman's questions. i think it is accurate that you did say at one point that republicans don't care about people of color, even a little bit and i would like to know if you truly believe that. >> senator, thank you.

i also said that if they do, i would be happy to listen. i am certainly always willing to listen, to not only my constituents, but my colleagues and i would suggest to you very strongly that there has never been a time in my entire public service career that i have not supported and worked with all people and i commit to you that i will do just that if i am fortunate enough to be confirmed for this position >> yes ma'am, but again, not to put too fine a point on this, but i need a little more precise answer let me ask it a little more directly do you think republicans care about people of color? >> i do, some, yes.

>> do you think most republicans care about people of color? >> yes, i do >> okay, thank you for that. dean, can you hear me? >> yes, i can hear you, thank you i want to take you back, to the months before the pandemic started. before we even knew about the coronavirus. what's tax changes if any, would you have made at that point in time given the fact that we no taxes impact the economy. generally if you tax something you get less of it? >> senator, i believe what you are referring to is the fact that before the pandemic, struck or we identified the

virus, that the economy overall was doing relatively well. except you know we were in expansion and employment rates were low. >> yes but what changes would you have made to the economy that point i'm running out of time. >> well senator one of the problems though with our country that time, is we had inequality that i would say was record levels but that's been as hassan rated now. >> but what tax change, i'm sorry have to do this because i only have like 30 seconds. what tax changes at that time would you have made to the economy? >> so senator i would have been looking for ways and strategies for us to be addressing income inequality, and wealth inequality which existed at that time. >> how would you have done that? >> so i'm an economist, i study thinks, i would want to look at

a broad array of potential options, and president biden, and when president biden is ready to consider this which one you know these investments which we know will help improve the economy. we will look at that in the most efficient way. >> but what would be sorry for interrupting you, i hate doing that but what are the options that you are talking about? >> so we could look at our income tax rates, are corporate tax rates, we can look at ways to deal with wealth income tax. >> capital gains? its capital gains on your list? >> so capital gains are tricky, because we know that the way we currently treat capital gains, also generates inefficiencies. so there are tricky ways that we can deal with capital gains, but i think we should look at all of the options absolutely. because we have wealth inequality in this country.

>> in my last nine seconds, how about the death tax? >> senator i believe we should be studying and considering, all of these different options and put together a per folio which is most effective for addressing wealth and inequality in this country. >> thank you. >> thank you senator kennedy. senator warren. >> thank you mister chairman, congratulations to both of you for your nomination. we live in an america today where a white family, has a thumbs the wealth of a typical black family. five times the wealth, of a typical latino family. gaps that have not budged in decades. now doctor ross, you have done extensive research, could you tell us what it would mean for american families, if our connor me, if we pursued

policies that closed the racial wealth gaps substantially? >> senator warren i think we share a concern about the wealth gap. and if we step back and first consider why wealth is important, and the wealth gap the racial wealth gap whites important. first it is basically income over ones lifetime and, expenses occurred. it's a reflection of family circumstances, it could be luck but it also reflects obstacles and labor in the financial obstacles in the financials market. there are discriminatory policies, and importantly this legacy continues to reckless replicate itself generation to generation. as those without accumulated wealth cannot pass on to their children. the other reason it would be important is that wealth is protective, and is important for well-being. so increase wealth, has been associated with better health

outcomes. better financial resilience. during this pandemic, what we have seen is those with greater wealth, who had more resources to fall upon. so it provides a kind of self insurance against diversity. it also provides access to housing with neighborhoods with good schools, which has additional advantages so clothing closing the get well gap, is trying to ensure that everybody can participate in the economy. >> that is powerfully important. thank you and one big contributor to the wealth gap, is black and latino students were more to go to college and have a harder time to pay it off. if the president canceled the student loan debt it, would close the racial wealth gap, among students with this debt, about 25 points. canceling 50,000 dollars, in

federal student loan death debt, is the biggest thing the administration could do on its own, to narrow the wealth gap. i hope we will have a chance to work together to make this happen. i want to turn to another piece of the racial wealth gap, and that is home ownership. owning a home, is the number one way, the middle class families build wealth. here is the ugly truth. the racial home ownership gap, is now wider, then it was when congress outlawed housing discrimination, back in the mid 1960s. this difference can be traced directly to decades of racist, federal policies, including redlining, that denied black families, the same path to home ownership. that was available to white families. since the government created this problem, seems only right that the government should help fix it. so congresswoman marcia fudge

you spent your career working to improve the likes of people in communities of color. if the federal government provided help, for families living in formally red line neighborhoods, would that make a difference in narrowing the racial home ownership gap? and just the financial gap? >> yes it would make a huge difference. basically families of color, it's a down payment. we meet all the other qualifications, it's like us being in a race with people who have a head start. because we do not have a mother or father to give us a down payment. we do not have the wherewithal, and the same kind of income. same kind of access. so it is like we are starting out of the box, with somebody who is out ahead of us by hundred yards. down payment assistance, is a major major impediment. if we could fix that, you would

see a tremendous growth. because no matter what they say, homeownership amongst blacks right now, was the same as it was in 1968. >> yes so thank you congresswoman, you are very powerful on this. we need to take action, before the pandemic widens the home ownership gap even more. and it is time, for all hands on deck approach, to a to deal with these racial disparities in our connelly. and administratively, canceling billions of dollars of student loan debts is one way to do it, and i know you both care deeply about these issues, i'm looking forward to working with you in your new roles. >> thank you senator warren. >> thank you mister chairman, and thank you to our nominees, and i would like to start with congresswoman fudge, we had a great conversation the other day. i would like to follow up on something i feel passionately

about. a straight line could be drawn, from the racialized policies of the past, to our zoning codes today. so in addition to recommending, and we committing to fair housing enforcement, what should we do to encourage communities to abandon, exclusionary zoning, and policies that build accessible and equitable unaffordable housing. >> thank you senator, and i did enjoy our conversation. we have to get rid of this notion of not in my backyard. we will have to find ways, for two reasons. one is housing, has increased by 10% or more a year. and the average person that we are talking about, that hud serves their incomes are not rising at that level. so we will have to find some incentives, for home builders. especially for those who build multi family housing. to assist us in these

communities and to change you know some of these are very very discriminatory. i think there's some legal options, but i think we need to convince to convince them that it is to their advantage at the moment it is to their advantage to make sure there communities know that it's important to get people off the street and put them in safe affordable housing. so being a mayor, i understand this issue. but it's an educational issue, and we need to educate people on it. >> thank you for that, i'm looking forward to working with you on this. and i would like to add that part of this is the politics of cities and towns, and people who otherwise consider themselves rather progressive. they get rather regressive. and are not reminded, but people such as you and many of the people on the banking committee, and in the congress that the exclusionary zoning,

and restrictive confidence, all of that is a great grandson of jim crow. and we need to remember that legacy, even as all of these progressives in a war fighting for progressive causes, but except for housing next to them. and it's something we have to wrap our minds around, not from a policy perspective, but from a community and communications perspective. i'm hoping we can work together on that. >> senator if i can confirm, i will be talking with you all the time senator. >> great last congress i introduced a reform bill, that would permanently authorize the program, and get funding to communities faster, to help them develop housing focused resilience packed plans. do you support the permanent authorization of this plan. >> yes very very much, and i will be happy to work with you on it. that's the only way we can get it at that jumping through 1

million hoops. >> hawaii has one of the worst housing shortages in united states. we have san francisco and new york prices, but low salaries. so do i have your commitment, and generally speaking on housing shortage in hawaii, and specifically on that native hawaii housing, block. >> very much and i'm looking forward to working with you. >> okay and doctor rouse, there is a real sort of shift in thinking, around the economics of climate action. and i think that this thinking is happening in academia, it's certainly happening in the markets, and it's happening in congress, and i'm wondering how you see your role in developing the data sets, that flesh out the case that climate climate action, is not in conflict with

the economic strategy but it is in fact our economic strategy, so i'm wondering how you're going to develop the data sets to clarify that so we don't have to have this 1970s argument about whether we're going to protect the environment, or developed the economy? >> senator, i can assure you that addressing our climate challenges front and center, this is first and foremost, we will have an economist as one of our members, we're hiring another economist, should be confirmed at least and that will focus on the climate. and understanding the true cloth the true cost of climate in action. and how we can do so efficiently. that is key to what i would like to accomplish, should i be confirmed. >> thank you senator, and senator cortez masto.

>> thank you and congratulations on your nominations, both to you congresswoman and dr. ross, and i appreciate both of you having conversations with me, but doctor rouse let me start with you. and you can imagine, nevada has been so hard hit, our resort operators support our whole communities, but as we discussed when people are willing to travel during the pandemic, it has devastating impact on our economy. both on businesses and workers, that are directly and indirectly supported. let me throw some numbers here. i think it's important for us to understand. before the pandemic, travel and tourism industry, is one of the largest sectors, of the economy. in 2019, travel generated 1.1 trillion in spending, and supported 15.8 million american jobs. we know because of covid pandemic, it has devastated this industry, according to

oxford economics, the u.s. lost 510 billion in travel spending, and 4.5 million travel jobs in 2020. my question to you is, do you think that the industry, the hospitality and leisure industry, is one area where congress and the administration, should focus when crafting a stimulus bill? >> senator, i appreciated our conversation and i share your concern about the travel and leisure industry. we know from the most recent job report, that's an area where we're seeing significant job losses. and it's been very hard to fight the pandemic there. but as i've said before getting through this pandemic where safely as possible and helping individuals and helping businesses that are viable to get to the other side so they can partake in the growth that's very important to us, and i believe we should be targeting our assistance, in

those hardest hit areas. and i believe the president shares that priority. i would say that in the rescue plan, there is additional aid for businesses, but i would look forward to talking with you, and understanding from your perspective, and your situation what would be the most effective ways to ensure that we get the assistance to those businesses and the sectors that are the most heavily impacted by the pandemic. >> thank you very much dr. rouse we look forward to working with you, and we have ideas after working with our industry, locally and nationally about what could be done. and that includes tax credits to be incentive tools. and help certain second certain sectors recover from this economic crisis. i look forward to talking with you on that subject. so congresswoman can marcia fudge let me associate myself with some of the comments, that

the senator scott, had brought forth in respect to manufactured housing. he and i coach aired a bill and the manufactured housing, and it was passed into law and it was passed into law a year ago, and my understanding it is still not been implemented by hud. as a result of that we sent a letter to secretary carson, asking for the implementation of the new law. and really what it does, it issues guidance for the inclusion of manufactured housing, and states and local government consolidated plan. i look forward to working with you for the implementation of that particular law. but i only have so much time, let me talk about the other area, that we are all addressing which is the affordable housing crisis. it is so prevalent. one area as that is terrible nevada is third in the nation

for experiencing homelessness. and homeless youth. i know this is an area that is important for you as well, so what ideas do you have to work with other agencies, to reduce the youth homelessness and what can hud be doing as well. >> thank you very much i didn't do our conversation. so certainly, one of the things we need to address right away, is youth who are aging and the foster care system. as soon as they age out, they have no place to go, so hug has to start putting in programs, to allow them to stay in public housing, at least until we can get them on their feet. right now it is a difficult situation with the numbers of young people, who are as you say are unattended. but the maturity of them the majority of them, our foster youth. i mean the program for them. as and i will work with you all should be confirmed. >> thank you appreciate that.

>> and thank you very much. senator smith. >> thank you so much chair to me, and welcome to our nominees, you both bring such distinguished records, a true spirit of public service. great conversations i was able to have both of you, over the last few weeks, and i very much look forward to supporting you. we are in the midst of the worst public health crisis and economic crisis together, and that we have ever lived through to my knowledge. and i appreciate how both you are talking about how we need to navigate through this crisis but also focus on how we can expand on the ingenuity and innovation and the amazing work you know for the american workers to help build our country forward and dr. ross i want to talk i want to start with you, i appreciated our

conversation and your thoughtfulness and reasonableness and i appreciate you having talk about following the data, not just the averages but the entire scope of data i appreciate that dr. rouse's. and this gets to a question that senator warren was saying, and it is the cost of inequality to our economy, and elizabeth touched on this with regard to homeownership, but i want to ask you about the challenges to our economy, because of lack of access to capital for communities of black and brown and indigenous communities. especially the community like the native communities can have, and also using you don't getting our call economy moving again. >> thank you senator, you're raising a very important issue as we think about, having a

shared recovery and ensuring that it's not just the average that does well but everywhere. and the diversity. but i want to emphasize that geographic diversity is what happens in our rural areas and that's important part of that music. and we know that stimulating economic activity is the best way to generate employment and therefore economic security and livelihood to ensure that the young people want to stay in those areas and not be forced to stay where they don't want to stay but they have an incentive to stay, and not just lead to urban areas in order to find a job. so we want to bring back vibrancy to all the areas of the u.s., we have to ensure that our businesses and the smaller businesses have access to capital so they can get started. and especially during a downturn just like this you know they have to have access to capital so they can thrive,

and bridge to make sure that they survive to the other side. i believe this is an important part of our strategy. >> i appreciate that and when you and i met, we talked about what this could look like in indian country, in the united states and i want to re-extend my invitation to have you come to minnesota, either virtually or in person, so we can have conversations about what that would be and what it would mean in terms of capital and economic development in tribal lands. let me turn to representative this marcia fudge. i soap reshaped you and your leadership, and i just want to note that you know i think mayor snow a bit about mayors so no problem is too big or too small for a mayor to focus on also, most problems when europe may or they are not democratic or republican problems, their problems about whether people's lives work or not. and i believe you will bring that same spirit to housing and

urban development. i want to thank you and i want to follow up specifically on the conversation that you and i also had, about the shortage of housing on tribal lands, and i'd like to ask if you could comment briefly on the most important housing problem programs in indian country, and what program do you see an and you know and about the shortage of housing in trouble communities? >> well thank you for speaking to me, that was brought up to me but most of the native american stakeholders, they brought this up and something i have guarantee that i will look into as quickly as possible. and as soon as i can you know if i'm confirmed, as soon as i can get into the office and talk to the staff and figure out what is going on with it, i promise that i will get back to you as well as i promised them that i would get back to them, i intend to do just that. >> thank you very much, and mister chair i have a question

for the director, which i will submit for the importance of maintenance and safety needs in public housing. -- was this represents an issue with terrible i'm the fire issues. >> i'll get back to. you >> yes unfortunately a senator has not been able to log, on he wants to but senator brown if you have a closing comment you'd like to make, maybe you can make that statement now we can give it more time to senator -- to do so. >> i would thank you mister chairman, and thank you again to my friend congressman fudge. so let me say in response to the questions from a number of my colleagues, it's tough to ask take a lecture, on political speech, from members of a party whose leader just three weeks ago, literally

incited a violent insurrection with his words. the real rhetoric we should be worried about is the lies and conspiracy theories. that may incite violence, and you know i know senator has pushed back against his former presidents dangerous lies. i appreciate his courage and his candor. and i wish others of our colleagues, on this committee and in the senate, which showed the same kind of courage. and thank you congressman marcia fudge and for doctor cecilia rouse for your comments. i'm excited to work with you. and i'm even more excited about this committee now also this and, i'm excited to assuming the chairman ship of this committee. and i appreciate all your comments, and these are extraordinary times, that require extraordinary actions. so you too will do in the next several years, will be why his

soon will be the most important things you ever done in your lives. i consider my job to be that, and your service to our country is admirable and crucial. so thank you thank you so much. and thank you to chairman to me. >> thank you and i appreciate the conversation today, i'm grateful to the two witnesses for their willingness to serve our country and i will say i think i heard bipartisan discussion about the fact that we are in a different place in our economy today than we were back in march. and today that we have people who are certainly suffering from terrible circumstances, but it is a much more targeted group of folks that a universal catastrophe we face last march. so i hope our circumstances will reflect that reality. this concludes the question answered portion of this. and i do have some final

housekeeping announcement. before i do that, let me thank both of our witnesses, and now our nominees, for your testimony. and your willingness to serve. and all questions must be submitted by 5 pm saturday january 30th. and for witnesses, i do ask you to rip to respond to any questions that you received, by noon monday february the 1st. i know that is a tight timeframe, but your prompt responses, will facilitate this committee, and processing your nominations. with that this hearing is adjourned.

mary church terrell alison parker tells the story of mary church terrell her life. the national archives provided the video for this program. >> welcome, your audience to a discussion between