well, good afternoon citizens. what a pleasure to greet you once more at our monticello, but as you can readily see we have somewhat of a split canvas because we're welcoming through this modern element of technology in the pursuit of science our good friend who has always been at the forefront. they're upon a doctor benjamin franklin who is with the snail from philadelphia a good

afternoon, dr. franklin. good day. good afternoon to you, thomas. well, i'm pleased to welcome you here as are all of our guests and before we begin to receive questions from our moderator his alice wagner who is again with us to receive the questions of our friends friends. will you allow both dr. franklin and myself to remove our masks? well, thank you. we have their approval doctor. well, this will not be pretty folks. oh, here we are. oh doctors. i've always known you well, i believe. well, no you i suppose. you were much younger. i was i was a bit older when when we met i believe by my count mr. jefferson. that i'm i must be something approaching 37 years older than you or something like that as i

was there very closely. they're upon their dog when we met in in when we met for the second continental congress. i not i was away for the first. i i believe and and when i had checked on that that i was 70 years old, i knew that but i believe you were something like 33 or something and something something approaching that so, you know we so you'll forgive me by addressing you less formally than mr. jefferson and i i will call you thomas if that's all right with you and that's that's quite quite fine by me doctor. in fact, you remind me that my youth in your eyes a continued because when we greeted one on the other again in paris, and i was so taken by your particular reception from the young lady.

i haven't continually besieged by the old ladies to know yes, but then when i asked you whether i can succeed as well to such an attention. do you remember what you said? well, i said you were young i refer to you and one way or another sir. that's correct. you said you're still too young thomas? oh, you know it some things have to be earned thomas. but dr. french who have gathered to enjoy our conversation now now indeed. let's do that. well ms. wagner if you will we'd like to hear the first questions from our friends. thank you, dr. franklin and mr. jefferson. can you tell us about the circumstances under which you first met? and what were your impressions of one another? oh. would you start with that mr. jefferson at you seem to be jumping at that one? well, i cannot forget my very

first impression of you doctor because it was long before we met. oh, yeah. i had known of you it seems from the earliest days of my youth when i had the privilege of an education. both at the old old school house at tuckahoe plantation later at the reverend james murray's classical academy out here charlottesville, and then finally under the tutelage of dr. william small at the old royal college of william and mary your name. remained the most consistent and that is because of well the universal knowledge of your creativity particularly in the field of electricity. you were the foremost electrician across the globe doctor and always at the forefront of science myself. so dedicated to that study. i read extensively upon what you had achieved so i knew you

before i met you they are in philadelphia as you said that spring of 1775 the second continental congress oh indeed now, i i suppose you mentioned william and mary now i was there in 1756. i believe it was and you probably were not there then, is that correct? that is correct. i'm gonna wanna rather young boy. i think at that time i was at that time. i was attending to the latin school that a whole plantation, but you had already become known for that visit to the old royal college because i believe was that not where the degree of doctor. yes. yes. i i never got past the the second grade in in my formal education and yet i received six honorary doctorates. well, they called them honorary, but i earned them, you know, they were not for just building a building they were for my achievements in.

in science and such but yes, and and one of them i was i was proud to say was was william and mary and there was also um, cambridge and oxford and harvard and oh goodness. what's that other one up there yale. oh, i cannot forget yale my my good friend dr. oh goodness. i i don't reverend styles reverend. ezra stiles was the president and but yes, i am and i probably left one out. oh saint andrews, actually the first one in scotland my beloved scotland. i love that place by the way, but anyway, yes, it was it was a pleasure meeting you you were such an you were young you were you had already accomplished much in in virginia, and i i was looking forward to to seeing what else that you might be able to accomplish. and then and then we stuck you

with writing the declaration. i was too smart for that because i had been an editor and i said, i don't want to write anything that someone's going to chop up. and so i proceeded to chop up yours, i believe. no, you were not the only one doctor. i'm afraid that i'm afraid that john adams had much heavier heavier hand at it. well, yeah have your hand. and most things you reflecting as you're reflecting upon the the degrees that had been gifted you. i remember when we first met in philadelphia officially there that i remarked that though. i heard you had come to the old world college of women mary that i had attended only two years and when we were reflecting upon degrees you asked me what degree i had received and i lamented to inform you i've received no degree aurora. it was not often at the old royal college at that time.

so if you i can one of mine if you would like it. oh, well, i've received some honorary and from yale as well. how good i did not graduate either from a collegiate curriculum doctor. so what i find delightful is the fact that the two of us regardless of that. well that default if you will in a formal education by degree have both founded collegiate curriculums and universal curriculums yourself the collagen philadelphia and i myself working still on a university of virginia very, well. it's these things are so important and one has to look toward the education of the future. you know, i start the the college i started the college of philadelphia, which i'm told they now call the university of pennsylvania. and in fact, i remember when it became a university we started the first medical school in america there, but i wrote that that a college ought to be there all of the other colleges at the

time. yours were sectarian involved with churches. i said we need something that first of all a non sectarian college and also one that offers a the option of a very practical vy practical curriculum curriculum as well as just you know, we most of these other institutions were turning out clergyman and lawyers and i had nothing against either one, but i thought that architects and mathematicians and agricultural people and also people should have the access of an education like that. and particularly the two of us holding in kind a desire to see the continual pursuit of natural philosophy in other words of scientific investigation. are you a member of of our academy of natural sciences? i mean the our the oh goodness, you know, oh its evolved into the american philosophy. yes, the american philosophical society. my memory is not what it used to

be sir. well, you would have that. you know, i i started they say i started that but actually the idea was one of our friends john bartram the most eminent naturalist in america. so imminent that lineaeus said he was one of the great naturalists of the world. well, dr. i'm happy. we still answering that. we still answering that question. i don't know afraid. we're right now ramble. i tend to ramble. i apologize. well my self as well, but have we not passed many many a happy hour, and i'm so delighted to engage this once again of ms. wagner. we beg your partner, but the next question from our friends, that's quite. all right, gentlemen, dr. franklin you had a significant role for two decades in presenting the concerns of the colonies before parliament including advocating for the repeal of the stamp act indeed first how the status of the american pole and these relative to the mother country changed in

those years. oh, certainly i i had i was sent to the to to london by the colony of pennsylvania to advocate for their interests later actually was the agent for new jersey georgia and massachusetts, but um, so i met many fine people in the in the british government and for many years. i very optimistic about about our possibilities. i at that time i i did not and most of us did not envision independence for for the american colonies, but merely i had written as early as the 1750s about an a wish for a bit more home rule that that are decisions should be made not by parliament and and not by and and rather by our colonial legislatures indeed. i felt that it was it was inherent in the british constitution that parliament did not control the colonies and as

as i went on in london more and more my frustration with with the parliament led me to advocate that pennsylvania, they become a royal colony rather than a charter colony. is it originally had been under the pen family i but as you mentioned the stamp act and i must admit that when impact was first enacted to in order to as the british thought to recoup their expenses in defending us here in america. it did not concern me so much. i thought well, it was another tax and and i must confess that i had been. in in england long enough that i perhaps lost lost my finger on the pulse of of the colonists and i think this happens when one is spending too much time away from once constituency if

you will i rather enjoyed being being in london and the meeting all the intellectuals of the western world there and and i think i underestimated the reaction of the the colonists in particularly in a few places to the stamp act and when it when i did realize that that reaction i began to advocate against the stamp act. in fact, i made a very the longest speech of mike life. i've never been one for speeches i made in in the parliament to have the stamp act repealed and it was successfully repealed but my my time in london, i'm sorry, mr. jefferson go on. well, no. no, i was just i wanted to to add to this that meanwhile. back in the colonies we could not help but hear of your extraordinary efforts to introduce. i believe it was known as the albany act. hey a particular method to allow

autonomy in an american parliament, and i think that was based upon was it not the the iroquois compact? yes the albany plan of union which which i had addressed at an albany conference other word other words. i think it was 1754. i first brought that up. that would would unite the colonies not in one organic way, but unite the colonies in a matters of defense and trade and such a loose confederation if you will based on the iroquois confederation, i i think you know of the incident mr. jefferson were one of the iroquois achieves chiefs in trying to put the confederation together made a very visual illustration of the benefits of that. he took a stick. and showed how he could just break that stick. then he tied six sticks together.

and showed that he could not break them and he said this will be the strength of our of our confederation. and so i certainly felt like if i felt from very early on that i was a british citizen i was proud of that, but i was not in englishman. i was a british north american and that was a very special. i called us a rising people. i thought that with and i predicted population growth for the american colonies and i i believe that it kept being very accurate and i thought that we would be the center of the british empire eventually. well, that did not happen and so as as politics change there and all i became increasingly frustrated and so much so that when i finally left in 1775, there was a warrant out for my for my hanging if you will. well, you were not the only one

doctor with that warrant and they're saying virginia patrick henry and myself already had quite the bounty on our heads you. in fact, i was so concerned when i left. that i made out another will because i was going to be crossing the atlantic with british warships and privatee ships and i was for the first time in that whole conflict. i was concerned for my life. hmm ms. wagner your next question gentlemen, you were both appointed by john hancock president of the continental congress to the committee to draft a declaration of independence. how did you work together to achieve the final draft of our nation's founding charter? but dr. i remember decidedly it was you that the four of us for others on the committee invited to take up the pen first. it was you first. oh certainly as i said, first of all you were fine writer and we knew that you expressed yourself very well and you were of a very

favorable temperament. i thought to to present to present these things and as i i wasn't editor for many years, you know, i a newspaper and i did not want to write the declaration of independence. i i think again i deferring to your talents and also knowing that having been an editor i did not i did not want to be edited. and i knew it would be and i and then of course more forcefully mr. adams did. did take you gently to task on a few things my feeling about it was. um, there was so much you wanted to say and i really understand that but as an editor i said we must focus on a few things and make it strong you so eloquently you echoed some people like john locke and and the although you you changed a bit of his of his

wording and emphasis and you you i think you were by probably mr. mason's virginia statement of rights, however, that was expressed so yes, those were my feelings about it and yet i wish you to know that. that dr. franklin more than anyone on that committee and i dare say perhaps more than anyone that i had the advantage of in life as a mentor. that dr. franklin helped me to learn wordsmithing very rather than using 2025 words to just find a good 10, maybe 12 words. that would make the statement the more profound and provocative for instance. i remember the beginning of the second paragraph of i wrote we hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable that all are born free and independent. oh it was dr. franklin it was you sir. yes said let us cut to the quick

mr. jefferson simply begin. we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal done. that is your booty of words did not pretty much the same thing mr. jefferson i and but you know, i found as a writer and again perhaps because i was writing in at times. well as an editor and and as it's certainly in a more self-serving commercial vein starting to sell my newspapers and with all sorts of different things, but but i found that economy of words, you know, i people will of begin to slumber a bit as if you go on and one i think one of the greatest dangers for a writer is falling in love with one's own words, you know, they they are our children, but it's it is much as we might think so sometimes editing is not killing our children.

so very very true. well doctor no matter what we collaborated upon those five on the committee. we had to push that further to our congress. we had to give it to them and then sit back and say we have no further support because of well proper parliament procedure our work days indeed i work was done and i believe that i believe that it is probably stood to test of time, don't you sir? i believe it has dr. i'm happy to say indeed it has and it has become universal and being the inspiration for untold what will be upwards of 250 declarations of independence for many political economies 200 years into the future did were i i don't believe that that was in my mind at time. i was i think perhaps one who looked to the future more than

many of our contemporaries, but i certainly didn't look. that far into the future, sir. ms. wagner your next question to dr. franklin and mars myself. dr. franklin you mentioned your time as an editor and a writer one of our guests bridget would like to know if that time as a printer influenced your political career at all. oh goodness. well, i suppose it influenced my political. career it. it's i i my political career it just specifically political was pretty short lived. i'd served to i served as the clerk of the pennsylvania assembly while we were still colonies here in the later. i was elected to the colonial legislature for two terms. although i fell into disfavor as anyone who stays long enough does and was relieved of those duties and i'm grateful for that

now, but it certainly brought me into contact with with a lot of people it's and it also made what it was more important to me was that it really being a printer from the age of 12 when i started as an apprentice to my brother. was the most monumental and contributory part of my life to who i would become i everything it first of all it gave me access. i mentioned my limited formal education two years being a printer gave me access to oh, i don't know. i perhaps what one might call an information highway. i don't know if that if i may use that term, but i was surrounded by books. i was printing books. i was publishing books. i was writing books. first of all, it it gave me my education. that and the travel i i engaged

in later. it also made me enough money that i could that the the printing and the newspaper and more specifically that i could engage. i could leave my my business day-to-day business at the age of 42 and engage in in the study of electricity specifically and other other studies it gave me that and i i was able to make a pretty good living as a newspaper publisher. here's a scandalous note. i'll enter jack i was the the british postmaster for the north american colonies and this they didn't pay me much but i was given the franking privilege which myth i could mail things free. and so i mailed my newspaper to every one of the american colonies and the pennsylvania gazette became the largest circulation newspaper in america. i suspect they put me in jail for that. but but at that point it was it

was legitimate, but the other thing i did which as a businessman i managed to do what you would call franchising i had taken i had set up young men in printing shops all up and down the the country and then when i when i did retire from the day-to-day work, i took in a partner in my my printing shop in philadelphia and i would provide the equipment the training and take a percentage of the profits for a number of years. and so i was able to continue to profit from my my printing business without going to the office every day and that also so that led to the study of electricity and my published findings in that made me the most well known american in europe which led to my diplomatic career i had no no education in diplomacy, but that made me famous as you if you will in london and paris and and i would so i was the one set to many of these people. i was the only american that

they had heard of so my printing business led to so many things in my life such that if you asked me today after all those things i've done which we will talk about what my occupation is. i will gladly say printer. mr. jefferson after the victory of our american revolution you were commissioned by congress to succeed dr. franklin is ambassador to france chester would like to know what did you learn about diplomacy from dr. franklin? oh my dr. franklin just said you have all heard it that he had no particular shall we say course or instruction in diplomacy and yet in representation of our young nation. he was received not only at the court of lewis of france, but thread all of the kingdoms of europe. as long the man man in nature

you recall this stuff. well, i hope modesty forbids mr. chairman. no, it was extraordinary duplessis even painted the most marvelous portrait of you sir with that heavy coat in the fur collar and a fur cap as well and it's title was low man in nature, you know, you succeeded me and i want to i want to to give you a bit of a compliment sir, because i was not present at this particular conversation, but i did hear later that someone asked you if you were there to replace dr. franklin and you said no one can replace dr. franklin. i'm merely his successor or something to that effect. and i thought that was the most gracious thing to say and it says much about you thomas. well, i i can only tell you that indeed i will always hold by it and so will many into time that you cannot be replaced and well

i can assure you that. that when i first step foot on the sole of france and by the way, i was beligured with a terrible seasickness it remained with me for an entire year if you recall dr. many question whether i could secede dr. franklin i felt that i fell into a well a court of humility of myself. most humble indeed how i could possibly a sustain the most remarkable representation of dr. franklin and if you remember doctor right after we voted on our declaration of american independence our new congress of our nation there in philadelphia actually commissioned the two of us. yeah and me to be co-ambassadors of our young nation at the court of lewis, i could not go our new

commonwealth of virginia required me to continue to work on the constitution of virginia. and you may remember how i was so concerned about the health of mrs. jefferson. i certainly do and and we all wish to very well in that and understood why you couldn't couldn't accompany you it was mr. dean silas dean of connecticut who went my state and accompany you but sir you are the one you were the one who became renowned. well, yes, and you were the i'd say a virginian that i was happy to see there not so much mr. lee, but who i apparently tended to poison the congress against my efforts there writing back to his his brothers, but i suppose the less said about that the better well, but doctor every one of us have had those are our nemesis who are determined to to force us into a real as you

know, general washington was caught in that conway. and yet what helps us to succeed doctor would you deny? is very simply character good character and when i heard you say that you brought so many in as apprentices to acquaint them with printing to be able to engage the spread of enlightenment will doctor the entire world. has become your apprentice in the pursuit of enlightenment in the pursuit of liberty and in pursuit of what constitutes good character. i have to say this because for certain that humility that i encountered when i first arrived in france could only be assuage. by following in the footsteps of such great men as dr. benjamin franklin. well, you're much too kind mr. jefferson, but i do appreciate that.

in 1787 when the constitutional convention met in paris, dr. franklin played a central role while mr. jefferson you were still in paris. can you tell us about some of your discussions about the framing of the constitution? well, dr. you were there. i was there indeed. and but we were all we were all supposed to keep things a secret while we were there, although i understand that mr. madison may have had some correspondence with you about it. is that correct? can we talk about that that's constant correspondence with with mr. madison, and he he continues i may tell you to enlighten me upon many many different subjects the most luminous mind i've ever known savior, sir. oh certainly certainly a most admirable man who had a mind that that was a wonderful mind and and wonderful manner about

him he was he was not the an intrusive sort of person, but you always knew what what mr. madison was thinking and and it was a wonderful thing. in fact as i recall. when i i understand that you i know your friends. i understand that. that the capital is is it is determined that the capital will move from philadelphia? to to that swamp somewhere south of here. i believe that's partly in virginia. is it not sir? but partly in virginia. it is partly in maryland. we have you had a hand in determining that as i write. i did have a handicap medicine and mr. hamilton we had to give our nation's new capital city out of the urban markets as far removed from the association of counting houses as we possibly

could you remember at the constitutional convention i certainly was not there but general hamilton was incessant in his idea that the new federal government under a constitution a stronger more central system of government and remember doctor though 3,000 miles away. i still thought the articles of confederation were available fabric, but i know many people who are venerable who should be retired though, mr. jefferson, but sir, you know, hamilton scheme was considered to be an amelioration between the small states and the larger states and from what i remember in correspondence what mr. madison that was the great concern of the constitutional convention. how would the smaller states continue india in association with larger states? the larger states would overwhelm them. i'm i suppose hearing what you

say about the one of the reasons for moving it. i suppose i'm comforted to know that in the future that the united states capital will not be influenced by markets or urban affairs are or anything else. so it will continue to be in this quiet little country spot there. is that correct, sir? indeed sir, a longer the potomac river 100 miles removed from the ocean the rapids if you will the fall lines of the great potomac river, aha and all general washington will be happy. i'm sure. i'm very much so it's continuous to his his great holdings down there along the potomac answer. it is located near two small towns, which i think you had visited one being george town. they are on the north bank and the other alexandria. oh, yes wonderful times now now the speaking though of your your thoughts about the constitution. i know we brought up i brought up i guess mr. hamilton. i know that one thing that

really concerns you was the the fact that there was a potential for the executive to stay in office for i mean considerable length of time and that you found that troubling in fact, mr. hamilton. i think just wanted to give us another king. a president serving for life based on his good behavior, but didn't you say something about a fear of of having people who could just continue in office and precisely sir would be no different than the the intrusions and the prerogatives of royalty and monarchy and nobility. in fact, it was about this time doctor if you remember while you were still in france, we had discussed the continual tyrannies that could result from allowing anyone in office over too long a period of time. yes, and this was one of the reasons why and about 17 and 86 you had been returned to our

nation about a year that i acquired for myself. in fact, i i haven't right here. i am quite myself a seal a watch shield upon which my initials a t j but then around the perimeter of the the seal your great statement rebellion to tyrants is to god remember that yes indeed i do. i do and i i think that the potential have of tyranny is always is always present no matter what system one has i suppose but the i still believed that. certainly called while general washington was was with us. and as long as he will continue to be with us. i was as concerned about. about tyranny and in certainly

in that highest office, but but none of us will be around forever. and so it is a concern. well, dr. i'm pleased to inform you. that the general did not want to stand for a second term as our nation's chief magister. i had to visit him at mount vernon and convince him aha and yet after he did successfully stay on for another four years. he set a precedence a precedence of only eight years in the office of the chief manchester and i was the first to be able to follow it in kind and dr. when we speak of the first i know enough of what i've heard of that constitutional convention that when it was discussed who ought to stand is the first president of our nation the first chief manchester under the constitution you were the one that came up in conversation more than any other.

well, i believe do i need to tell you why why that was not going to happen. i'd be happy to i have several reasons if you have enough time. no, well, first of all when general washington took his oath of office, i was already 83 years old and not in in the best of health. i've never been an executive of anything and never wanted to start being an executive of anything. so and and also everyone wants a general washington, so there are probably reasons i could go on and on with why why it was never meant. for me to be to be the the chief executive this country. are you gracious doctor? you are most gracious. i was the president of pennsylvania briefly. but yes. your next question is wagner. stephen would like to know the

both of your thoughts on the institution of slavery. well doctor. as you well know i am the one who continues. to oversee but cannot be denied as the most barbarous institution. staying upon america. i did you not say that sir. i did sir and and how well you understand. well, i am not i am not guiltless myself in that regard. not nearly on the scale that you're talking but i i i am not guiltless and and continue and i will. i will not let you take in the entire score on this one, sir. well, i shall accept it and i will tell you that history shall be harsher me and they have every right to be though trying to promote a future emancipation of this practice. i i'm not succeeding. you said it was like holding a wolf by its ears. i believe.

could you explain roman writer publicly a serious who made that statement about the institution of slavery during his time in the ancient world that you hold justice in the one hand while you hold in the other. while you hold in your other your your livelihood. doctor we talked about slavery many many times when we were in philadelphia first meeting 1775. you yourself had already begun a slave emancipation society even though as you inferred earlier you you own slaves i did and i never i never i suppose i i was never i suppose as invested in the institution certainly of the livelihood situation as you and i know you inherited that sir, but it you know what? let me let me talk about slavery because i again i i cannot i

cannot sweep it under the rug and i do not choose to i did hold a a few slaves household slaves for some years and i i felt i began to change it. it was certainly my good friend anthony benezee here in philadelphia. who? who influenced me in in this and i was also influenced in in london by by samuel johnson who exposed me to a school for a young negro children as we called them then and i began to see both on in mr. johnson's instincts and later in my own neighborhood in mr. benazet's school that these children. when given the opportunity in the means to to learn work at

every bit as as intelligent and and capable as as the white children and we had grown up. i know you did too under the myth that these people of a different practically of a different species and not and not the the same sentient beings that that we are and so when i began to see that that that was false. i could no longer. consider holding people in bondage. it did not it just would not work for me and i honestly believe that what happens in that evolution of thought is that when one sees and accepts the fact that this is not property. these are human beings. exactly like us. only in different circumstances one cannot justifiably continue

to engage in holding people in bondage. those are that is the evolution of my thought and i did did help to found the american philosophic or the american ancipation society. i also wrote in my newspaper satirical articles about ridiculous thought of us holding slaves. i reversed it at once i wrote about a sultan and potentate in the far east who was holding englishman in americans in in bondage and seeing seeing how the other the other shoe would work and then i later in in recent years despite the the agreement we made in the constitution to not talk about the issue of slavery for 20 years. i did write a letter to congress at the behest of the quakers in philadelphia to to take up the

the the question of excuse me of abolition. so those those have been my thoughts over the years and on slavery, sir. and dr. franklin as we have been speaking about the constitutional convention earlier, was it not one of the most remarkable compromises to realize though bound by habit and custom in particular laws of the time and particularly that year of 17 and 87 and and creating if you will the electoral system for the office of the chief magistrate recognizing a balance between the smallest states and the larger states were being creating slavery 3/5 of an individual which is an abomination with that question that will give you that will give you an extra elector, i believe so but that but the point of the matter being that we realize our constitution is open to amendment and though that might be yeah at present

here been down by generations of these customs and laws that it does not mean it must remain. cabot custom and law for the future and our constitution may be amended. that's the whole process is only us and that that we discuss the child of 14 cannot wear the same clothes at the age of 40 our laws and institutions must grow as we grow as a people and and that is a difference to your enlightenment upon this subject to help constructive constitution that will grow as we grow as a people. well, i thought that i was not. of a mind to to leave that convention without a constitution. i knew it would not be perfect. it could not possibly be perfect and have nine states ratify it sir. but i was heartened by the fact that there was a process of amendment. and yet it was not something

that we could just do every other day. it was not the easiest process, but i had faith. in that evolution of thought in that evolution of just this american character if you will. that that it would be addressed else. i knew that. you know when you kick something down the road you are going to trip over it when you get there, and i i fear and fear, then that this issue would not go away. and that the given the vast difference is about it that there was every fear of of just tearing this this new nation apart. i'm afraid we are running out of time if you could just share with us the last couple thoughts about your hopes for the future of the nation. well, bye. well, dr. franklin if you will my hopes and thoughts for the future of our nation.

are that so much of what you accomplished may continue to live on. that we will continue to be devoted to your sincere and deep attachment to the pursuit of science as a reconciliation for anything nature hurls against us that might be well that might be a detriment to our further pursuit of happiness and particularly the maintenance of our health. that your interest to continue to pursue the enlightenment of the family of man not only in our nation, but across the globe may continue a jealous attachment. that that our nation can be at the forefront of such universal enlightenment. and in particular that your university of pennsylvania will continue the monies that you will devote to a an institution.

say a franklin institute may continue to provide an emporium where people can go and and realize what you have provided for the future happiness of mankind that newspapers will continue to inform informed man to be the wrong judges of what they read in the newspapers in order to have that knowledge and to to have that foundation of fact because as you will know the true competition of newspapers is which newspaper will have the fact first how they might they're by provide the appropriate vote for their representatives in the future idea. same as magna i could go on and on and on for my hopes to the future as vested. in the great opportunity in friendship to know dr. benjamin franklin, thank you, sir with us

today, and i i would just it has always so as always you are the last word. may i just say my hopes for the future sir briefly, and i know you could go on and on but i just want to say that. i will endorse everything you said mr. jefferson and i will also add that i hope this country will continue to be what it has been for me. the son of a candle maker with a limited formal education um the opportunity to become what one needs to become. i i hope that is always there as it has been for me in this this country in this city of philadelphia the opportunity to find my my place in the world to create my place in the world not simply to to find it but to create it and i hope that everyone in this in this new nation, we'll have the opportunity that i've had to to

educate oneself. and to have the the finest education that one can have and to to be a contributing force in this country. and to to pursue the happiness that that you described so eloquently in that document and thank you very much. it has been my and sincere and and deep pleasure to engage in conversation with you thomas. my pleasure as well. citizens i thank for the opportunity that we have been able to welcome dr. franklin in our company today particularly to thank miss alice wagner for being with us who engage your questions. we look forward to visit with you again and rest your doctor. we remain do we not your humble and obedient servant indeed we

do. thank you. good afternoon. everyone. welcome to another installment in the monticello live streams week. we're focusing on the relationship between thomas jefferson and benjamin franklin, and it's my pleasure today to moderate this live stream host it and we're gonna be talking with philip. zisha who's the associate editor of the papers of benjamin franklin at yale university and we're really excited have philip on with us today. i love it when we have guests who are in documentary editing projects because they really have this extremely they have a very unique perspective on historical figures. they talk about that we discuss so philip welcome to a modichel live stream. we're glad you so much. thank you for having me. it's good to be back at monticellole