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tv   The Presidency Michael Giorgione Inside Camp David  CSPAN  December 20, 2021 1:31pm-2:14pm EST

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a weekly series highlights the presidency, politics and legacies of u.s. presidents and first ladies. coming up next, retired michael giorgione gives enlightenment on camp david. he served there and wrote "inside camp david." >> hello and welcome to another episode of white house history live. my name is dr. colleen shogun, and i'm senior vice president at the white house historical association and the director of the david rubenstein center for white house history. it is a nonpartisan historical legislation about the white house and the people who lived and worked there. our guest this evening is michael giorgione.
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michael is a retired admiral from the navy corps. he served around the world in his 20-year military career, including as commander of camp david. after military retirement in 2010, mike has worked in private industry and is now the chief executive officer of a building information systems technology company headquartered in his hometown of pittsburgh, pennsylvania. in october of 2017, he published his first book "inside camp david: the private world of the presidential retreat." michael has often spoken about the book and is covered by the "wall street journal," the "today" show, smithsonian, npr, c-span and many other print, radio and television outlets. after our conversation, mike will be taking questions from our live audience. please put your questions for mike in the chat, and we will get to as many as possibl at
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the end of our program. welcome to white house history live, mike. >> thank you, colleen. wonderful to be here. as most veterans would say it was a great honor and privilege to serve our navy and nation, and i feel privileged to share a few stories. >> why don't we start from the beginning, your story about camp david. tell us how you were selected as commander of camp david and what that process was like. >> it is actually a naval command called navy the thurmont division nearby. it was started in 1982 by president roosevelt. because it's principally maintained by cvs, a civil engineer of officers have been among its history. in 1998 i was put on a short list of possible officers to be considered, went to the white house, had the interview with
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mr. simmons, the then-executive director of the white house military office under president clinton. took a visit to the camp, was interviewed by the staff. about a week later i got the call. >> amazing. tell us a little about your own personal history with camp david. >> i knew what it was. i had visited once as an assignment officer for cbs when i was stationed in d.c. in the early '90s. interestingly, i left the visit that day talking to cbs about the next assignments, and i thought, that would be really weird to work there someday, put it away and went on to the next few tours. needless to say, in 1998 i was short-listed for the interview and brought in in 1999, near the end of president clinton's second term. >> how long were you there? >> the last eight months of president clinton, the first
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eight months of president bush. gained those insights of two different ways of leading our nation. >> let's talk a little bit about the history of camp david. the history begins, really, with franklin roosevelt. tell us, why did fdr select that site and what did he like to do when he visited -- not called camp david at that point in time, but i'll let you talk about that. >> very good, very good. thank you. let's go back to 1942. roosevelt loved going out on the uss potomac. the photo on the right is the floating museum in oakland, california today. but he loved going on the potomac and just talked to world leaders and staff. it was 1942. he was concerned about the u-boat sightings. we can't go out anymore.
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he said, find me a place we can go to get away from the white house. of course, this is before a helicopter squadron existed. he had to find someplace drivable nearby. interestingly, because of the new deal, bringing us out of oppression and part of the work project's later progress administration and part of the civilian conservation corps which put money back into the country and rebuilt a lot of roads and parks, there was a place in thurmont, maryland also known as camp number 3. roosevelt's sites nearby went to all three. when he came to camp number 3, he looked at it and said, this is it, and here's the first name. this is my shangri-la. implying a utopian kind of mysterious place in the
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mountains. he had that whole nature, apparently, about navy things. ly that's how we know it today. i'm sure for a lot of visitors who have never visited camp david and probably will never visit camp david, tell them what the camp was like. >> imagine a hilltop park that is a national park maintained by the national park service, great partners of ours. about 1800 feet elevation in the spring and summer months. a very leafy, lush canopy, perfectly manicured yards, a narrow asphalt road, and these cabins that you see here, and this is the aspen, this is the presidential lot. all these cabins have this rough cut plank siding with green
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paint. all the roofs are cedar shake shingle and this very rustic, very leafy front. i find it surreal and ominous at night because it is deathly quiet. no lights except pathway lights, no noise except for a squirrel in the tree unless there are visitors, of course, and no lights, no noises from below, just eerily quiet and peaceful. that adds to the mystique. this is the cabin my family and i lived in. we were the only family to physically live inside the camp, and this is called cedar, just around the corner from the president's lodge. >> how many cabins are in camp david? how big is the site? >> there are 12 four-guest cabins surrounded by trees. president eisenhower started that habit again. roosevelt called it the bear's den. eisenhower went to camp david
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ask named all the trees, the aspen, the tree of mamie eisenhower's home. about 20 total including the fire department, ash, the clinic, eucalyptus, the admin office popular, all the support facilities, the barracks for the marines, et cetera. >> you were the commander. what is the size of the military staff at camp david, and what types of jobs do they perform? >> over 200 sailors and marines, five civic corps officers. we have one chaplain corps and two marine officers overseeing the security company which comes out of the barracks in washington, d.c. we also have a white house
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communications agency. they are in charge of communications. that's a joint command coming out of the main command in downtown d.c. >> so can you tell us a little bit about how camp david has changed over the years? it was very rustic when fdr first came to camp david. there's been some notable additions to the complex. you've mentioned there is a chaplain, so there's a chapel at camp david. talk a little bit about the buildings and the activities and how that complex has changed over time. >> go back to fdr again. apparently why the navy has it is because he took the sailors off the uss potomac who now had a job and took it with him to camp david and he also brought them for security. fdr was there in the long winter months. truman not a fan of camp david. preferred to go to key west, but put a perimeter around the place, had the trees pushed back from the cabins, and then during
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eisenhower's time, it was winterized. heating was installed in all the cabins. very rustic and still maintained that, but over the years, more use of the family and administration, cabins have been added. president nixon during his time put a lot of expansion into the camp, expanding aspen, the president's lodge, putting in the laurel which you sometimes see on news reports of coverage of world leaders visiting. it's been modernized at times. it's a challenge if the president visits a lot when to modernize the cabins. but that's been going on the last four or five years. a smart way to keep it current but maintain the rustic nature on the outside and kind of the amenities on the inside. it's not a marble and brass four-star resort. it's not meant to be. it's a rustic, comfortable place to get away, to think, to walk
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in privacy and silence and to recreate on your own or meet with other world leaders as some of these photos depict. part of the most unique thing in the bottom right was a chapel donated with private money gifted to the president of the united states and camp david and commissioned in 1991 during president george h.w. bush. >> how did presidents get to camp david? you talked about fdr within driving distance, but presidents don't historically drive to camp david anymore, do they? >> not ideally. we prefer to bring them in by helicopter. weather permitting, they will fly in on hns-1 or what we call marine 1. or they will come up by motorcade from where their last departure was. >> camp david is a presidential
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retreat, yet we know that presidents often find themselves working at camp david. tell us a little bit about how it functions as a white house in the maryland mountains. >> thank you. i think most people recognize, no matter who is the president, you're always on duty. there can be a lot of critiques about what you do when you're off duty or how you do your job, but the fact is you are always on duty as president, and you need time off. we all need time off. in addition to a second home that some presidents have, some do not, camp david provides that peaceful getaway for family, friends, and if needed, for staffer and world leaders. i find it's been a great balance in history that presidents go there to get away, like the reagans who went mostly as a couple to get away, to recreate and also, i'm sure, think about things. every president does it a little different.
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to me as an outsider,ing i think of it as a respite for family and friends and it's kept privately. there was no press, no lights, no protesters, no traffic, no planes flying overhead. serenely quiet and peaceful. that's what you want. >> how did people get around camp david? are there cars or golf carts or bikes? how do people get around? >> it's principally golf carts, so everyone is assigned a golf cart. we had golf cart 1. golf cart 1, bicycles were available for pedestrians. we had trails in the winter months, and snowmobiling, you saw the picture of president ford and his family during his presidency. and you can walk. >> just to remind everyone, we
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will be taking questions at the end of our conversation, so if you do have questions, please put them in the chat and we'll get to as many as possible. let's talk a little bit about the history of camp david and the historical events that have taken place for camp david. can you talk about some of these episodes for them and why presidents might choose camp david for the setting of these historic occurrences? >> i'll mention four events and then i'll focus on a fifth one in particular. we see photos of fdr inviting winston churchill to the mountains and going fishing in the nearby stream and smoking cigars and probably having a bourbon or two. but the poignant moments in the bottom left here are them talking about the u.s. in war. that's roosevelt in the top left. that stone fireplace is still there. there is a wagon wheel chandelier you can't see, but that's above the roosevelt table.
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that's still there. president truman only went ten times in his tenure, preferred to go to key west. the president who came there first was president churchill. president carter made it most famous in 1978 with anwar sadat of egypt of israel. and president clinton brought yassir arafat. 2012 president obama hosted the g-8 conference at camp david, the single time the most world leaders have been at camp david any one time. but the incident i want to go back to is 1961, april 1961. president kennedy inaugerated in january, succeeding president eisenhower. things were being planned behind the scenes with the cia and the government and others, passed off to the administration. you see this photo in the top
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right that became a pulitzer prize-winning photo called "serious steps." what's interesting about this from a human and political point is that president kennedy inherited the operation. it was launched. it did not go well, hence the name, and he reaches across the political and personal aisle and invites president eisenhower to come to camp david and help him understand how to get through this. how do i fix this mess? what do i do? it's a very poignant, significant moment, i think, because you have the new upstart in the craft inviting the old guard, five-star retired general, former republican president there to talk about what to do. i think it's a very humble, maybe possibly desperate measure, but a very important way to recognize leadership, to recognize what a president typically passes on between administrations and talk about what to do best for the country.
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>> you mentioned this already, mike. some presidents, and you talk about this in your book, some presidents and first families visit camp david more frequently than others. you talk a little bit about the differences in how presidents and first families use camp david, and explain why you think that is. >> one, i think it depends on children. what are the ages of the president's children? i think that dictates are they going to leave their intermural leagues back in d.c.? are most of their friends there and are children around the house? i think that's a factor we all as parents would experience. two, some presidents have second homes and prefer to go there. some can do both. three, some like the quiet nature. president clinton rarely went to camp david his first term but used it a lot more his second term. so over two terms, i think he saw the value. some just prefer to go somewhere else and prefer to entertain
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elsewhere. we've seen a mix of 80-some year of how they've used it. >> can you share with us one or two of your most favorite memories from your time at camp david? >> there are certainly the historic moments that most people recognize like the middle east peace summit and working with the state department and madam albright working with president clinton and meeting yassir arafat and having a photo shaking his hand, and watching from the sidelines as the president spends two weeks trying to forge a middle east peace treaty, peace agreement. watching president bush early in his presidency welcoming the blairs for the weekend. it was just two couples getting to know each other as you would your neighbors when one moves into the neighborhood. it's a poignant thing to watch from the sidelines, because even though we get to serve there and see things, you have to remember you're in the world for this brief time and you get to know some personal things about the
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families, but you're not of their world and you have to understand to maintain that decorum. i'll tell two stories that are more personal in nature because i think it helps to relate to families and parents. the first one is the final clinton weekend. four days nonstop, hundreds of guests coming through, dinners, musicians performing in the chapel. just a wonderful event. we got an opportunity to say good-bye to the clinton family. and as i'm walking to the helicopter at 10:00 that night with snow on the ground, thanking them for serving our country, and walking them down to marine one to see chelsea clinton, a 20-year-old student at stanford turns to me and hands me two stuffed animals. and she says, commanders, i've had these in my bedroom for eight years at aspen, please give them to your daughter. just a touching unexpected
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moment, just a very human approach, of course, great keepsakes now for the two girls. that's the first one. and here's the scene the final time i see the clintons in 2001. the second one's a humorous story. it's in the book, it's about the goldfish, and it's that juxtaposition you're in as the commander of the camp, and the fact that you're responsible for security, yet you're the family that lives inside the gate, you have to go through the gate every time to run errands or do official things. and it was during the middle east peace summit first week, and michelle had taken the girls down to the fairmont city fair, common thing to do if you're at camp david in the summer. and she's coming back through the gate with the two girls in the backseat. they each had won a goldfish. and we have a strict policy at that time. no animals at camp david, no pets. and the marine corps guard who knows us and we know all the marines and they know us, and everyone's doing their job, and he says, ma'am, you can't bring pets into the camp.
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and she looks at him with a bit of an incredulous look, and the girls are hearing this, and the tears start to come down their eye, and she's looking at them and he's looking at her. she's looking back at him, and he's doing his job, mom's doing her job, michelle leans into the window and says, they're for dinner, and kind of winks. he goes, yes, ma'am, please proceed. so it's those little funny moments like that where you realize we're people, we all live with rules and regulations but sometimes you see the human side and we just work through it. that's my favorite story because moms and dads and kids will get what that sometimes feels like. thank you. >> so the final chapter in your book is called "the true meaning of camp david." can you tell us what is the true meaning? and is it different for every president and first family who spends time there? >> definitely different, as i described, how different families have used it.
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the bushes had kennebunkport. he loved going to camp david like his dad. and they spent every christmas there. for some it's a time for family to come together for special holidays. during my time the clintons loved camp david for thanksgiving. so, thanksgivings the clintons went to camp david. every president's done it differently. the reagans loved going there, but he did all his radio addresses on saturday from the laurel cabin and elsewhere. so they all use it differently. the meaning comes from, i think, the engagement with world leaders. and it has a theme of a camp david kind of place or the spirit of camp david coined by one of the soviet premieres during the time. it was about a place where you could come together with trust, within nature, no press unless you want it there, and just the ability to sit down as people, break bread, share a story, get
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to know each other. and to me that's the true meaning of camp david, a place for our presidents to get away and relax as best they can, a place to entertain family and guests and world leaders and probably one of the most unique places in the world to do that, all within reasonable distance of the white house. >> mike, we have some really great questions from our live audience. nancy from facebook asks, i know that president reagan and nancy reagan rode horses while they were at camp david. is there a stable there? and what other activities are available besides swimming? >> the only time we've had a stable there, a coral was during the kennedy years when macaroni, pony the macaroni was kept there for the children, the kennedys. otherwise horseback, and i had one incident where president clinton and chelsea wanted to go horseback riding. we used the back gate into the
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wilderness with secret service on horseback to go through the nearby woods. so horseback riding is possible, but there is no coral today. there is shooting, trap shooting, mini golf course, a driving range, snowmobiling, cross-country skiing. presidents want to go golfing, they go to the nearby golf course. they want to fish, there are nearby fishing holes on private farm lands that we arrange with. there's a bowling alley, there's a movie theater, a game room, there's a library, there's a bar, lounge, recreation shop, et cetera. >> david asks, have hikers ever from the catoctin mountains ever accidently approached the perimeter of camp david? >> it happens, and there are some warning signs put around the camp, and you could drive by the road to camp, but most people know not to go down there. and we have protocols if you do happen to encroach the fence, there are things we do to check
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you out and help you get back to your path. it's a no-fly zone, so typically no aircraft are able to fly over the camp. but i'm sure it happens. >> didn't fdr, didn't he make a wrong turn when he was driving once to try to get to shangri-la, and didn't he come across a neighbor that wasn't too happy to see him? >> yes, it's happened. when we didn't drive around as much as we did today, and when you weren't always surrounded by agents, there's been those humorous events, and he knocked on the door and the lady yelled at him, who are you? again, those little poignant moments about everyday life between humans and how we engage each other. >> dennis asks, what is the longest a president has stayed there? wasn't carter there for a week or more during the middle east peace talks? >> yes. there was a time carter was there over a week during the -- well, almost two weeks for the peace talks as clinton was
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there, although he went to the g-8 summit in japan midterm. but president carter also went there during 1979. and he came back and gave that malay speech. he talked about the condition of the country and what was going on. we had the hostages taken in tehran, iran. and all this was going on, and he secluded himself for almost two weeks working there during that difficult time in his presidency. but typically presidents go for a weekend, up friday, back sunday night. >> jeff asks a good question, how did eisenhower get naming rights to name camp david, camp david? was it an executive order, was it legislation or did he just have someone go out with lumber and paint and redo the signs? >> i like the second explanation best, but i don't know. i imagine there must've been something signed to change the name from the shangri-la moniker to camp david.
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we'll have to check the archives together, colleen. >> right. karen asks, when a president chooses not to visit camp david very often, how does that change staffing and operations? >> staffing operations don't change because you're always ready, or your mission is to be always be ready to receive. and some presidents have let camp david be used by guests. some presidents have allowed staff to use it. but if no one's there, you're just maintaining the place and taking care of it. and that can be a morale issue. if no one visits. and that's a lot of time not to do your job, per se. so you have to practice at times. and then some weekends, some presidents, it becomes quite an increase in up tempo or operations tempo, as we say. >> so that's the question that gaddy has. what happens at camp david when
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the president is away? what do you do as the staff? >> we have more time to do training, physical fitness programs, contests if time allows it, more time to send our sailors and marines to schools if necessary. again, you need to always be ready. but you're really sitting waiting taking care of the place still planting the flowers, mowing the grass, training, firefighting training, it's constant. you're ready to execute when the president does visit. and that's what we look for are those visits. >> jeff asks, has hollywood or the news media for a documentary, for example, ever filmed on site at camp david? >> harry reisner with abc news interviewed president ford inside the camp. i believe that's the only time there was ever an interview done in that regard of what is camp
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david. certainly during world events like the middle east peace summit, the president was there in a excluded area to film the principals coming in, and then they were escorted out on the bus. there have been hollywood guests of various presidents over the years and musical guests and sports guests, but no real filming, documentaries done on camp david other than from a distance and from the archives, and any presidential films from their libraries. >> peter asks, what is the reason for the no pets rule at camp david? >> it was self-grown. and today the people that live there, the co is allowed to have a pet. reading the book about the incident with nixon's french poodle and the camp commander's dog, it's a humorous time and probably why that has dictated some changes at times. but today we're a little more reasonable, i would say, about the pet rule. >> kathy asks, you mentioned the
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library. what kind of books are in the library, and does it depend upon the administration? do the books change depending upon the president or first family? >> we keep some archives in an open public library near the game room. so more of the history, that's where all the white house christmas cards, holiday cards are kept and all the presents sent out. we put those in the movie theater in the library. in the cabin holly which is where carter chose to meet with sadat and begin, i like that room because it's copies of presidential papers and some other historical novels about the military services. that's what we mean when we refer to the two libraries, one for public use more in the history of camp david and the second the presidential papers. >> missy asks, do you have any
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stories about the johnson years in camp david, lbj? >> chuck howe, age 95, lives in coronado, california, where i am today. chuck and his family joan and four kids were there from kennedy to johnson years. in the book it talks about johnson being particularly persnickety about absolutely scalding hot water in the shower and how chuck and the crew worked endlessly to try to make it hotter than possible, and how to deal with the air-conditioning and all those little things that many of us fight in our own homes. chuck talks about that transition from kennedy reacting to the assassination, the change of the administration, and then bringing president johnson and his family into camp. >> brant asks, has president biden visited camp david, do you know? >> he's been there eight times so far. he leave moz weekends if you've read in the paper recently, he goes to delaware, rehoboth
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beach. he's been to camp david eight times. he was also there a number of times as vice president. >> tiffany asks has camp david ever been damaged by bad weather? >> there are micro bursts on the hill, those little eddies of wind that will sometimes knock down trees in the cunningham falls state park or in catoctin national park. but fortunately nothing serious has hit the area where camp david is in its 200 acres. >> marianne asks a good question, has there ever been a wedding at camp david? >> one wedding, dora bush, president george h.w. bush's daughter was married there in the evergreen chapel, one wedding. >> and, what was the biggest surprise you ever had while working at camp david? >> the day the sprinklers went off when president clinton was chipping golf balls. i didn't witness it but secret
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service are watching from nearby, and he moved, the sprinklers went off again and he threw his clubs into the golf cart, the bag wasn't secure and all the clubs fell over the asphalt. it's humorous, but you can understand the frustration of someone dealing with that. and i tried to make light that night about finding the water hole. it was a poor attempt at humor. and you learn the balance of when to be serious and not too serious but when to be not too humorous. i learned to try to be not too humorous. fortunately i had no serious incidents during my time. there were tough things going on in the world. i left the month before 9/11 occurred, and there was a whole -- we spent a lot of time describing what that commander went through at the time. but light moments during my time, fortunately. >> charlene asks, how much heads up do you get to know when a president is coming? >> depends on the president. the change of command day
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10:00 a.m., and my predecessor knew that president clinton wasn't even scheduled to come at all. 10:00 a.m. ceremony that morning before the ceremony we get word the president's coming that night. so a fascinating pucker factor to realize you're about to inherit a camp, you know nothing really about what goes on, you've had briefings but you're the new co, you're driving the car, it's brand-new, you don't know how to drive it. i found that to be a very fortunate event for me because it taught me just to sit back, let people do their jobs, all i have to do is get dressed up, walk down there-introduce myself, shake hands, salute, and that's all i did that first day. but i learned a lot about my crew, and i helped to set the humility about let people do their job, train them, have their back, support them, let them do their job. so that was no notice. the bush administration very
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scripted. we always knew well ahead of time they were coming. again, it depends on the person. >> jane asks a good question. can the vice president and his or her family go there as well? >> if the president allows them to attend. so it has happened in history, not a lot, but occasionally. as i said earlier, sometimes the president will let staff or others go away for leadership retreats. president obama did that a lot for his staff members. the commander at the time and the chaplain would give the history brief in the chapel, and they would do what they were there to do and go back on a sunday. >> carolyn asks, do you know how the pandemic has affected camp david? are there new procedures in place? >> very observant of the mask rules early on, very observant of vaccinations. again, this is tail end of the trump administration, beginning of the biden administration.
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everyone's just very observant of following the rules either by the white house or by the navy's health protection conditions. very appropriate response. i don't think it's held back -- maybe it's held back from a lot of outside guests coming currently. is certainly no world leaders have been there in five years. but i think that'll open up, i hope, with world leaders attending more. >> bill says, i think i know the answer to this question, but i'll ask it anyways. is camp david ever open to tours? can the average american ever go to camp david? >> it is not open, and there's a fake white house website out there that advertises weekend tours and book a cabin. so don't believe that, that's not true. the only way to get to camp is the crew members can have guests visit on a nonpresidential weekend so either know someone who works there, if allowed, or know the president and be
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invited as his or her guest. >> jane asks, what's the food like at camp david? a good question. >> yes. for ourselves we run a gallie operation for our sailors and marines. and that's available to guests if they want it. of course, there is the lounge and bar has bar food available. but for visits, we worked with the first family to work the menu. we have well-trained culinary specialists who sometimes work with the president's chef or the white house to prepare the meals. for world leaders we sometimes work with the state department, especially for kosher meals during the yasser arafat visit, kosher meals are brought out from d.c. to provide meals for all guests. so we accommodate the guests, but day to day we have a gallie that serves the crew that works there. >> jackie who's watching on youtube asks, what is something
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that you think every american should know about camp david? >> okay. so to get the jeopardy question, because it's always on "jeopardy" as it was first called shangri-la. it's a navy command just like marine's a command, and air force one's an air force plane, et cetera. it was first established in 1942 by president roosevelt. >> missy asks, what's the highest rank of someone from the marines or the navy at camp david? >> the camp commander is a commander, u.s. navy commander, sometimes an officer might be selected for captain as he or she is departing the camp. but it's a job for a commander. the senior marine is the marine corps captain. he's the co of the marine security company. and for the white house communication agency detail that's there, maybe a lieutenant colonel typically in the u.s. army. >> and our last question this
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evening, several viewers have asked this. why did you decide to write the book on camp david? and what was one or two things that were just fascinating that you learned while you were researching to write the book? >> thank you. a wonderful final question. on the day of change of command, there's a photo of my wife and two daughters with me, ages 7 and 4, my wife michelle. she hands me this journal. and the first page of the journal is a scrolled note from the two girls saying, dear daddy, please write stories about the president, someday our kids will read them. and, so, after every visit weekend or event i would sit down and i'd just kind of write down what happened. so i did that through the clinton administration. at the end of it i did it for the inauguration of bush which we attended and then for the first eight months. and i put that away in my desk and never opened it for 17
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years. never thought i could write a book. there was a reunion weekend during one of the previous commanders at camp david. and a lot of the former commanding officers and spouses were there, and we were all meeting each other, some meeting for the first time, some we had known each other for years. many of them were talking about trying to capture some of the history, and i learned later that many had written their own stories, they just didn't know what to do with it. so i first realized that i could write the book as long as i had a security review done, so it was possible. i knew i wasn't going to write anything that was unattractive to any president. and i knew i could weave in 15 stories of other commanding officers and get the history from kennedy forward. i thought now we can bring the whole unity of the history of the camp, a lot of the camp together, other cos can tell their stories. you'll see their stories and their names in the book. you'll see a few of their photos and use it that way to really become a historical narrative with some of the personal
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insights. so i think it was well received that way. some people wanted dirt, some people wanted stories. that wasn't the purpose. it was to show respect and to tell the stories, a little bit about the inside workings and how the military supports the presidency around the world 24/7. >> well, thank you so much, mike, for joining us on white house history live. this has been a really comprehensive conversation about camp david. and thank you to all of our viewers for watching this evening. sunday january 2nd on in depth, civil war historian allen guelzo joins us to talk about the early intellectual history of the united states, the civil war, and the reconstruction era. his book titles include "redeeming the great emancipator," "gettysburg," and "robert e. lee: a life, a biography of the confederate general in the civil war." join in the conversation with
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your phone calls, facebook comments, texts and tweets for allen guelzo, sunday january 2nd at noon eastern on "in depth" on book tv. ♪♪ c-span offers a variety of podcasts that have something for every listener. weekdays, "washington today" gives you the latest from the nation's capitol. and every week booknotes plus has in-depth interviews with writers about their latest works while "the weekly" uses audio from our immense archive to look at how issues of the day developed over years. and our occasional series "talking with" features extensive conversations with historians about their lives and work. many of our television programs are also available as podcasts. you can find them now on the c-span now mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. our weekly series the presidency highlights the politics, policies, and


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