Skip to main content

tv   Intelligence Leaders Testify on Mission and Priorities  CSPAN  April 4, 2022 10:19am-10:58am EDT

10:19 am
talk. >> i want a report of the number of people that assigned to kennedy on the day he died and the number that are assigned to me right now. if they're not less, i want them less. if i can't ever go to the bathroom, i won't go. i'll stay right behind these black gates. >> presidential recordings, find it on the c-span now mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we're funded by these television companies and more, including spark light. >> the greatest town on earth is the place you call home. it's our home too and we're all facing our greatest challenge, that's why spark light is working around the clock to keep you connected. we're doing our part so it's a little easier to do yours. >> spark light supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers.
10:20 am
giving you a front-row seat to democracy. next, national security agency director general paul nakasone and other top u.s. security officials testify. they touch on intelligence-sharing, cybersecurity and disinformation, among other topics. the house armed services subcommittee on intelligence and special operations host this. it's just over half an hour. good afternoon. i call to order the hearing of
10:21 am
the intelligence special operations committee. i need to do some formalities first. members must be visible on screen for the purpose of identifying verification. they most continue to use the video function unless they experience connectivity issues or other technical problems. if they experience technical difficulties, they should contact the staff for assistance. it will be broadcast in the room and via the television internet feeds. members who are participating remotely are reminded to keep the platform on the entire time. they may leave. if they depart for a short while, they should leave the video function on. if members will be absent for a significant period or to join a different proceedings, they should exit the software platform entirely and rejoin it if they return. members may use the chat feature
10:22 am
to meet with staff regarding technical issues only. i have designated a staff member to mute, unrecognize members to cancel any inadvertent background noise that may disrupt the proceedings. thank you. i would like now to welcome our -- today's witnesses. mr. ronald moultrie. general paul nakasone, and lieutenant general scott barrier, director of the defense intelligence agency. i'm pleased to see each of you today. this hearing takes place during a very perilous time it's crucial to maintain strong alliances and partnerships. it reinforces the importance of the work being done by the defense intelligence enterprise from exposing russia's destructive disinformation to working with our allies and partners to share critical intelligence and ensuring our intelligence apparatus is agile
10:23 am
so we can respond to the needs. russia's unprovoked assault threatened the world order and presents a dangerous level of aggression. i'm concerned about china's threatening posture towards taiwan and north korean's testing of ballistic missiles. we also continue to face threats from extremist groups who would strike us on our own homeland. we could only be effective -- we can only effectively combat these challenges with close collaboration with allies and partners, especially through our intelligence partnerships. i'm interested in hearing today how the defense intelligence enterprise is implementing reforms to this subcommittee and the fy-22 fdna to release intelligence to command commanders to combat maligned disinformation and support d.o.d. messaging and influence operations. in the interest of times, i ask the witness -- in the interest of time, i ask the witnesses to keep their opening remarks brief so we will have more time for
10:24 am
the closed session. with that, i will now turn this over to ranking member kelly for any opening remarks. in the meantime, i will try to get -- >> in the interest of brevity. first of all, thank you, all, for being here. thank you for what you do for america every day. this is one of the most important posture hearings i think that we have. i won't have a lot to say in the open session. the things we need to say are not for political purposes. i look forward to the closed session where you guys can tell us what you need to do the things that america needs you to do. and thank you for all the men and women who serve under you for service. >> i will hear from our witnesses and move to question-and-answer sessions.
10:25 am
we will reconvene for the classified session. i now recognize mr. moultrie. >> thank you, charm, members of the committee, to testify on the current posture of the security enterprise and addressing the threats facing the united states of america, allies and partners. the intelligence and security professionals work every day to address the current and future threats facing our nation. on behalf, i wish to thank the members of this committee for your continued support and partnership. i'm joined in my testimony today by generals nakasone and generals barrier. they will provide you with more comprehensive picture of how we support our war fighters as well as characterize the challenges we all face. the department of defense trusts the intelligence community to respond to the threats that we will all hear about. general barrier, over to you, sir. >> chairman, ranking member kelly, distinguished members, i do have a statement here.
10:26 am
i can forego the statement if you would like to get to get to questions? >> we'll skip to questions. >> chairman, i'll forego my statement as well. >> great. thank you, appreciate the -- all of our witnesses. all right. thank you. this is to all of our witnesses. i'm interested in hearing about progress made to the reforms for releasable intelligence. first, could you share specific examples of intelligence sharing to combat disinformation such as exposing russia's false flags and intelligence-sharing that would literally save lives. second, i would like to learn more about our intelligence-sharing with ukraine? are we able to share intelligence in realtime with ukrainians and are they able to communicate with the u.s. and what do those channels look like. if you can answer as much as
10:27 am
possible now, we can follow up in greater detail in the classified session. >> yes, chairman. i would prefer to answer questions on the intelligence that we're sharing in terms of false flag and what we're doing in terms of near realtime intelligence in closed session. i would say that the intelligence that we are sharing and the work that we're doing to support the ukrainian government is making a difference. it's accurate. it's timely. and it's actionable. and so we think that we are supporting them in such a way that they are pleased with what we are providing and i'll forego the rest of my comments until we get into closed session, sir. >> chairman, if i might -- i'll defer the specifics to closed session. but i think when we consider what the intelligence community at large and our defense intelligence establishment has been able to do here, i would characterize it like this, our
10:28 am
ability to share intelligence is for a number of different consumers. first of all, the sharing of intelligence to build a coalition. secondly, the sharing of intelligence to ensure that we shine a light on disinformation operations, what you referred to before. and the third piece is, how do we share information that's relevant, that's actionable, that is able to be utilized by the ukrainians. all three of those areas i would tell you, i've never seen it better in the 35 years that i've spent in uniform. >> chairman, i would say where we're at is -- it's revolutionary in terms of what we've been able to do and i can provide great details in terms of the how and what we're sharing in the closed session. >> thank you. general barrier, how is dia as a functional manager for open source ensuring efforts are synchronized? >> chairman, the open source intelligence center assigned to dia is working that very, very hard with the intelligence
10:29 am
community. as you probably know, the cia is the community manager for open source. dia has been designated as the defense intelligence enterprise open source functional manager. we're taking that role on now and we're devising our way through really how we -- how we organize ourselves for the sharing of the information, the tools that we use, the training and the trade craft and a big part of this is making sure that across the defense intelligence enterprise, we're not getting ripped off for the data that we're purchasing and putting a structure in place to allow us to understand what that data is, catalog it and be able to understand who is paying for what. >> thank you. >> general, as you know, the nda requires certain conditions be met prior to ending the dual hat of the commander of u.s. cyber command also serving as a director of nsa. there seems to be a natural partnership between the organizations but i wanted to get your view on the future of the dual hat relationship. is it realistic to expect either organization to operate
10:30 am
independently? >> so, chairman, if i might, i'm approaching four years on the job. i'll reflect on my experiences. at the end of the day this is a policy decision that will be made by others. my best military advice as it was when i first came into the job and after three-plus years in, through elections, through problems with iran, through ransom aware and now with russia and ukraine, it's allowed us to be able to take and focus efforts from the national security agency and u.s. cyber command on very, very difficult problems, influence, ransomware. being able to have action, being able to have agility is what the dual hat has been able to allow me to do over the last three-plus years. >> sounds like a pretty good endorsement for me. ranking member kelly? >> just really quick, the
10:31 am
chairman asked this question. it's more of a comment because you answered the question. open source is on -- is really important. sometimes we just don't want to disclose how we know stuff and if it's open source then we don't have to a lot of times if it comes from the u.s. government, people tend to doubt it. if it's from some other source other than the u.s. government, it adds more credibility to it. and there are a lot of open source -- i've talked to several of those these weeks. what i would like for you guys to do is, what ways can -- rather than contracting with a company to do certain things, can we not buy what we need when we need it? ie, if we were right now, are there satellite companies that can tell us, you know, what -- how many bushels of corn are in ukraine? can they tell us the refugee flow? can they do a lot of other things that we don't have to do, especially with some of the false flag information that russia has been putting out? can we go to those and say, hey, we want to buy this information and have them put it out?
10:32 am
>> ranking member kelly, that's a great question. as we try to organize ourselves within the enterprise side of this, i think those are the questions we need to ask ourselves and pursue those strategies to be smarter, better, faster as we do this. >> i see open source, a lot of time it adds credibility rather than the other. and i guess the second question is, i would have said in my opening comments that i had some. what extent are we able to collect meaningful intelligence over the horizon and afghanistan and also are there open source things that can help us with that information that we can also use? >> ranking member, i would prefer to discuss the over the horizon mission in the closed session. there are open sources that we can use to help us in afghanistan. >> and then the final question, just in a general sense, we'll discuss this more in the closed hearing, but overall just for the public to see that we're
10:33 am
going -- they have to know we're going to closed session to talk about all the important things. overall, what is our budget look like or what does that look like, what is your request going to look like and what things in a general sense can you talk about here? >> yes, ranking member kelly. our budget, i think is going to reflect the president's priorities. to focus on how we're focusing the enterprise on integrated deterrence, how we're still campaigning against our pacing challenge, china, and also how we are trying to build what i would call divisive information advantage to ensure that our policymakers as well as our war fighters have the information that they need to do the mission that is required of them every day. >> and i would add to that, for us at the national security agency, as we look at it, we look at a budget that's going to be able to support us in competition, be able to support us in crisis, be able to support us in conflict. as a global power, we'll be in many, many different phases of this throughout the next and
10:34 am
many years to come. >> i yield back. >> thank you, ranking member. representative scott is up next. >> i'm sorry. i assumed that we would go back to a democrat. >> going to yield to me. >> no, but i -- i do want to tell you i personally believe the intelligence back in december was the best collection job that i've seen in my ten years in congress with regard to russia's plans for the ukraine. and i do think and i know it was a big decision to declassify and to share it with the world. i do think that the world has benefitted from the declassifying and the sharing of that information so that they were prepared for -- at least they expected it. maybe if we weren't prepared for it -- under secretary moultrie,
10:35 am
i've asked our different commanders to look at what a 5% and a 10% reduction in the global food supply means for the geopolitical stability around the world. i want to point out to you particularly that the ukraine is responsible for putting 50 million metric tons of corn and wheat into the export markets. they are the largest supplier of food to the world food program. if you look at what is happening in -- there's tremendous civil unrest in sri lanka today. i think the defense intelligence agency needs to do an analysis of what a 5% and a 10% reduction in the global food supply looks like in the different areas of responsibility. russia is saying they're not going to export. they were the second largest exporter of wheat in the world, if i'm not mistaken, behind
10:36 am
ukraine. and you look at the whole black sea trade area, the food supply that comes through that area is effectively shut down. belarus and russia are the number two and number three potash suppliers, fertilizers for the world's crops. and i kind of feel like vladimir putin has started world war 3 with regard to the global food supply and the geopolitical unrest that is going to come from that. certainly much respect for president zelenskyy and the ukrainian people for the fight they're putting up. and i hope they keep fighting and i hope we keep giving them all of the intel we need and weapons that they would need to put up the good fight. but i am very worried about what this means for other areas of the world as well. so we'll be looking for that information from you as we -- as time pushes forward. but i do think that the u.n. is expecting tremendous political instability because of the food
10:37 am
supply. would that -- i'll save the commander of my questions for a closed door. but i look forward to seeing that. >> thank you, representative scott. representative bacon. >> i did have questions too on the costs of sharing all of this intelligence. but we'll wait until the next closed thing. i have a cyber defense bill that directs the federal government to do more. it passed out of committee unanimously. is there a bigger role for cyber command and nsa to help out in our private sector? we had jbs attacked, the colonial pipeline attacked, and these folks can't go up against the intelligence services of russia. they need your expertise. but your thoughts, sir? >> in terms of our role at the national security agency, i think you're well aware that one of our two missions is cybersecurity. our focus has been outside the
10:38 am
united states foreign intelligence and being able to bring the insights of what cyber adversaries are doing outside of our country to be able to inform what's going on inside of our country. we have a responsibility as part of a -- a part of the defense industrial base to ensure the protection of that. as you're well aware, 16 different sectors, that's the one d.o.d. is focused on. but for us in general, i think it -- you know, the secret sauce that we bring at nsa is what they're doing outside of the country and sharing it. >> am i really down to 33 seconds? >> no. >> something happened here. i would like to bring up another thing that was a big issue and i got elected in 2016. there was a push to separate cyber command and nsa, make two different four-star headquarters. i always opposed it, i know how
10:39 am
important nsa is to the cyber command mission. they're very much integrated. if you had two four stars going in different directions, you have a dysfunctional situation. is that discussion pretty much off the table now? i like the way it's set up now. >> again, congressman, that's really, you know, a discussion on the policy level that does come up at times, and i know i've answered questions before a number of committees on that. again, that is still something that is being considered. >> for what it's worth, i'll pose it and i hope the congress does. you need unified direction and i think your leadership of both of those organizations provide that unified direction. so, sir, do you have any comments? >> yes, sir. from the department of defense perspective, we certainly recognize the value of the dual hat role that general nakasone has played for the last four years and the role of cyber command and nsa over the last 12
10:40 am
years-plus, i believe that the dual hat will be looked at again just by this administration, just to ensure that we understand what the value added is, but also what the impacts are. and so that discussion is still ongoing within the department today. we understand that the -- there is sentiment on both sides to really not do any harm. but i believe that it will be looked at, i think, it will be an objective look and we'll make sure we brief it out to you, sir. >> the cyber teams, the core of them are nsa folks. if you are two four stars with different vision and direction, i don't see how you keep a unified direction for the cyber team, but that's just my two cents, being down at the 2005, 2006, 2007 level that i was in. one last question and this is for general barrier and general
10:41 am
nakasone. there's a push to go all fifth gen collection, but we know day in and day out we do not penetrate china's air space or russia's air space. we still need some of that traditional isr because that's what the bulk of our collection. i guess my question is, do we -- are we keeping the right balance between the traditional isr and penetrating isr and do you see a need to maintain some of these older platforms? >> congressman, with my army hat on, coming out of the g-2, there's a balance between isr and competition and isr in conflict, and certainly as we're seeing this play out inside ukraine, we would never fly those platforms into an envelope where they could get shot down or engaged. but certainly in competition, i think there is value for isr platforms that can collect on the periphery and analyze and
10:42 am
process that information. >> congressman, i would offer as the functional manager for the defense intelligence establishment here, you know, we need to have a variety of platforms. whether or not they're from space, airborne, terrestrial, all of these stitched together for a very, very complex and very, very important look on what our adversaries are doing in many parts of the world. the chief of staff is looking at a number of platforms. having a wide variety of these platforms is really important for us to do our mission. >> you still keep a high priority for the i-35? >> thank you, congressman. i still have a minute left -- >> i rolled over from our last one. >> thank you. we can take that in the briefing. representative murphy. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you to the witnesses for being here today with us. you know, one of the areas that i've been particularly interested in during my time in congress is the use of
10:43 am
deepfakes. we seem them used here domestically but also by our adversaries overseas. i secured some -- i've requested -- i secured some report language in the fy-20 intel authorization act on just getting a sense of how our adversaries are weaponized these deepfakes as a tool to shape the information environment. in fact, even recently i saw that the russians produce a deepfake video of president zelenskyy urging ukrainians to stop fighting and that was broadcast on ukrainian television yesterday. so we're seeing the use of it and the deployment of it quite broadly. and so my question for you, how have you seen in your time that technology evolve, where do you think it's headed and do you feel like our intelligence community is prepared or how are
10:44 am
you preparing for the evolution of that threat? >> so, congresswoman, i think you identified one of those key areas that i've seen over the past three years in this job which is the growth of influence operations by our adversaries. keep fakes or the ability to use video in some form or fashion, that is intended to cause -- to send a message, is one of those ways. so how are we doing it? at the national security agency, we're working very, very closely with our region directorate to understand the anomalies, the technology, the key pieces of what we can determine what is real and what is fake. but the other point really is that it goes to ranking member kelly's point which is, this is also an area we're partnering very, very closely with the private sector that has done some very, very leading work that we've been able to obviously have discussions with them on that. this is an area that we continue to watch very, very carefully, act very, very rapidly and i think we'll have a number of different areas that we probably can discuss in closed session as
10:45 am
well. >> thank you, general. mr. moultrie, i know when i was in the private sector i often read open source information in language to get a full sense of what's going on and get the context of what's going on in a country or in a conflict. i was wondering, you know, language, foreign language skills are clearly a tool that is important to the defense intelligence community and it's going to be increasingly, i think, an important part, especially as we look at great power competition and so we're not just talking about mandarin or -- but we're also talking about indonesian, other languages like that. it will be necessary for us to have it to be able to work with our partners as well as to understand our adversaries.
10:46 am
i was wondering, you know, if -- do you consider the defense intelligence enterprises existing foreign language capabilities to be sufficient for today's great power competition? if not, what are some areas in which we need to invest more? how do we get more analysts and operators who are proficient in foreign language? >> yes, congresswoman. in terms of language, it's one of the more important things that we do and i'll talk more about it -- i would like to talk more about it in the closed session. when we look at the capabilities that we talk about here regardless of the domain that we're talking about, whether it be space, whether it be ground, whether it be isr or whether it be cyber, our language capabilities are essential. we actually are looking at it. as you said, the various languages, the competition languages, whether it be mandarin or russian or other languages that we are concerned
10:47 am
about, regional languages, those languages were all extremely important to us. there are some things that we're doing that are under way right now to help us to not only gauge what we will need today but what we will also need for the future. i would like to talk about that in more depth in closed session. thank you. >> thank you, and i yield back. >> thank you. representative larson. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chair. maybe this can be answered in the session, this question. i understand the sensitivity around the other things, certainly. the office -- your office plays a critical role in the defense intelligence enterprise. understanding the growth in your office in recent years, the gao cited several challenges with oversight, including governance bodies. can you discuss a little bit what's being done to address the challenges the gao identified
10:48 am
and provide more active -- to provide more active and effective oversight in the defense intelligence enterprise? >> yes, congressman larson. the gao report that you mentioned was something that we took to heart. we've looked at it and we decided that we need to move out aggressively on it. what we are doing are four things. we're looking at the roles, responsibilities and functions in our organization, ensuring that we understand clearly what those components are. then we're trying, number two, to match what our people are actually doing to the roles that they should be doing to ensure that they are doing what we need to do to measure what's occurring within the defense intelligence and security enterprise. thirdly, metrics, we need to make sure that we have metrics to see if we're adding value in terms of our oversight and governance role and lastly, the people piece of this, just ensuring that we have the right skill level, that we have the right backgrounds and focus on
10:49 am
this is something that we're doing. we're being assisted in this by some independent analysis being done by ida coming out of princeton and we hope to have something back to you and to this committee in full by the fall of this year, sir. >> that's great. thanks. related to representative murphy's questions about kind of focusing that you need. you mentioned language and maybe you can answer in closed session, but in terms of subject matter or certain expertise, maybe on if technical side, what kind of work do you need to do to recruit folks into that part of the enterprise. >> congressman, the skill set that is our individuals need run the gamut from being able to understand military operations, being able to understand economic issues, being able to understand diplomatic issues.
10:50 am
and so you can imagine that everything that we talk about, whether it be in our government and how we are moving economically, how we are looking at research, we have to understand that and some 100-plus languages around the world and we have to understand, and we have to understand it to the extent our adversaries may talk about, and it's something we have to compete for and that's something we are focused on. i will talk about that more in closed session, and it's a top priority of the defense communities and working that not only across the defense intelligence enterprise but across the ic and agency. >> some of us, certainly i have been tracking the strategic support forces in china and maybe this is an answer for the next session, but since it's
10:51 am
being reorganized and it stood up over the last several years but more traction over the last couple of years, whether or not you have seen an increase of sophistication as opposed to increase investment from the pla? >> i would like to take this up in closed session to talk about scope and scale suffocation and what we are seeing because i think it can probably answer your question more fully. >> thank you. i yield back. >> thank you. mr. pennetta? >> thank you, mr. chairman and gentlemen thank you for being here today. pivoting on to languages, can you explain what role the language institute plays in some of the training you talked about, please? >> as a graduate of the language sensitivity some 40 years ago -- and my wife was a student, and
10:52 am
it plays a critical role. when you look at what is go in ukraine, one of the challenges we appear to have is focusing on the problem of today and not focusing on the problem that we might have tomorrow. so the defense language institute foreign language center as played a key role. it's a place that i have tried to visit every year, and i plan to go out there again this year. they are that training ground for intelligence security, and i am proud to say that a person that has gone back frequently, it's light-years ahead of where it was when i was there, and individuals are doing in 12 weeks what i was doing in 36 weeks, and it plays a key role and we want to support it across the enterprise and not just the defense intelligence enterprise and the defense intelligence
10:53 am
agencies and others in the department of defense. >> out standing. did i mention it's in my congressional district? >> absolutely. >> thank you. if you do come out there i would look forward to hosting you. thank you. >> thank you. >> just quickly, it seems like the sub components, despite the forthcoming doctrine, there doesn't seem to be a jointly recognized idea on what information operations should priorities. do you believe that establishing a sub unified combatant command for operations within u.s. cyber calm could allow for joint information operations training and execution? >> congressman, i am not sure it's a fit or a solution that is built to a sub unified kphapbt. here's what i do believe. we use information operations in every cyber mission we do. it's that important to what is
10:54 am
going on to be able to communicate a message to an adversary. what i would say is we need more information operations trained personnel that come to our command. i know my own service and other services have taken this on very seriously, and that's what we need to get to more, let's integrate them into our teams and instead of building a separate command, let's make sure we understand the information operation expands in every spectrum of what we do. >> any more information on that plan as to what you can do? how you can improve training, our forces to jointly employ -- >> what i can do is give you specific examples in closed session because this will clearly indicate the importance
10:55 am
of what we are applying to and what the services had been providing and what we need more of. >> thank you. gentlemen, thank you, and mr. chairman i yield back. >> this concludes the open session. we will be moving directly over to 2212 for a classified session. thank you.
10:56 am
now available for pre-order in the c-span shop, c-span's 2022 congressional directory. this exact spiral bound book has contact information for every member of congress, and also contact for state governors and the biden administration cabinet. preorder your copy today. every c-span shop purchase helps c-span's non-profit operation. c-span now is a unfiltered view mobile app live and on demand.
10:57 am
keep up with the day's biggest event with livestreams. all at your fingertips. you can stay current with the latest episodes of "washington journal," and find scheduling for c-span tv networks. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. download it for free today. c-span now, your front row seat to washington, anytime, anywhere. there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiassed, word for word. if it happens here or here or here or anywhere that


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on