tv Q A CSPAN November 30, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm EST
cameron taking questions from members of the house of commons. and former presidents george w. bush and bill clinton discuss the creation >> this week on "q&a," our guest , out with his know was a book "pay any price: greed, power and endless war." -- with his newest book "pay any price: greed, power and endless war." he is an investigator were order with the new york times. -- he is an investigative reporter with the new york times. the government's case against him is panting. he has stated he will go to jail rather than cooperate.
>> jim risen, author of "pay any price: greed, power and endless war." damien carr said he -- carsetti? interrogator sent to afghanistan to be an interrogator at the collection point which was the name for the detention center that the u.s. was running at the air force base and later he was an interrogator at abu ghraib for the army. have -- i tell a story in my book about how he came back from iraq and afghanistan after being involved in harsh interrogations with ptsd based
conducted a lot of interrogations. and it is a story that i think is very important because it ,hows and he said this to me virtually everyone he knew from his unit involved in interrogations came home with ptsd from conducting harsh interrogations. that is one of the stories i think nobody wants to hear which is torture and the american torture program, we now call it torture. they came home tortured by what they had done. the people who had to go into to conduct what the bush administration and cia and army and military all created, this infrastructure, the people who had to lay their hands and do it physically themselves.
i came home deeply warped and flawed by the experience. >> where is he now? >> he is living in savannah, georgia. he only has 100% disability from the army because of his ptsd. and he is trying to recover and rebuild his life after and he still suffers very strongly from ptsd. >> how long was he a signed to abu ghraib? >> the very beginning of the u.s. involvement for a few months. he came from paul graham. -- belgram. he was involved in interrogations or a year. found thatrience, he there was virtually no rules when he first got involved in the interrogations, the army and military was creating a new
system of interrogations with very little oversight and very little roles. gram and followed another unit that was the first their and do what these guys are doing. they watched the other unit conduct very harsh interrogations and the only message he got from any of the officers was due not to judge them for what they are doing. he took that to mean we should be doing the same thing. idea thatnion, the the harsh interrogation and enhanced interrogation program that supposedly was so well controlled by the cia and illegal opinions by the justice wasrtment and supposedly not supposed to sift through the rest of the u.s. detention actuallyd combat zones
did seep into the entire system. it was like a poison that drifted down. and once it became clear in his mind that we are not going to be treating the taliban or some of these other people as prisoners of war, but rather enemy combatants. all ofd not and deserve the protocols given to prisoners of war. that amended the rules work on and they could follow these more abusive practices. >> a little bit from a movie. let's watch it. [video clip] >> puts people in a crazy situation and they will do crazy things. we were also told they are nothing but dogs.
>> interrogators was saying straight him and chain them to a bed and do what ever you can. >> young soldiers with little training and they were not told what the new rules were. at theseart looking people as less than human and you start doing things you would never dream of. that is where it got scary. >> there's always a few bad out. you -- a few bad out. -- apples. damien tales and others, thells and system of no rules or oversight that would have kept it as isolated as the wish administration wanted it to be. got sent throughout the system either through subtle ways that this is what the government wanted you to do.
and no one came back to try stop them from doing it and no , thenght from officers they kept doing it even more. that is where -- he has to say is so powerful. s tried to pick up damien' story after he came home. he looks completely different now. he lost all of the weight. and i picked it up when he comes back to savannah. he is trying to rebuild his life and he now has posttraumatic stress syndrome. >> you said he divorced? >> he was abusive to his wife and his wife left him. -- last son and he had time i talk to him he had a girlfriend with a new daughter. bettertried to develop relationships with his ex-wife
and so he is trying to rebuild his life. >> how did he fit in with this book? >> what i tried to show in this book is that people will really have been punished and suffered in the war on terror are low-level people. throughpeople, different means throughout the whole war have benefited and have enriched themselves and gotten status and power. the only people who have been punished who disenfranchised in different ways have been the people at the bottom. >> let me read back to your paragraph under the chapter the war on normalcy. , maderterrorism experts with lucrative government contracts --
what is the rest of that story? >> a small town in vermont which is right on the border of quebec. linelittle town of derby is and adjacent, the canadian border runs through the middle or right along the border of the town with quebec. it is basically one town separated by an international border. , some100 years ago wealthy locals built a library that straddles the border as a sign of the fellowship in 20 oh americans and canadians. you can go to this library in derbyline and there is a line to go through the middle and one side is canada and one side is america and they did it on purpose to show it is an
undefended border where we are all friends on the canadian/american border. derbyline was a townwide open. inyou grew up in derbyline the 20th century, you would walk over to canada and there were no border and you would wave at the customs agents a you would go over there to shop. the canadians would've come here. after 9/11, the department of homeland security suddenly came in and started building walls derbyline. they demanded that on the streets and be close between stanstead.nd they put up a new border patrol agents, you had to show a past wart to get across. most of the people do not have passport and never knew. and the local town, the village
officials eventually had to negotiate with the department of homeland security about what are we going to do here to let us have a normal life here in this post-9/11 war and they finally got an agreement that the one road that goals by the library which they open and not blocked off because it was a symbol of fellowship. so, a great character, a guy named above is our boy who -- , he helped negotiate this deal. he was on the village council. one night he went to his favorite pizza place to get pizza. a dog is one road they had negotiated to have open. he got stopped. 2010, the department
of homeland security had flooded derbyline with extra agents to secure the canadian border called operation -- operation stone garden. he got stopped a was demanded to show his id and they said you cannot walk on the street. can.id, yes, i that is part of the negotiation deal. the guy said, we are closing it. home ande walked started eating his pizza. he got really mad. he said they cannot just close it, we had a real. he got angrier and angrier. he ate half of his pizza. it was in february. he had enough. on terror in a whole new creation of the homeland security and operation stone garden. he went back to the border and the to the street near
library. he started walking back and forth. his teeth,ding walking across the border, back and forth, waiting for someone to stop him. at finally, five border patrol guards came and grabbed him and took him away to a detention center down the interstate until some guard who was from the area stopped him and brought him home. that led to what i called the between therbyline local people and department of homeland security. into a localuzz hero. he became a martyr of derbyline and that will protest on the street against homeland security. they created songs. he was famous all over vermont. finally the department of
homeland security backed off area they got rid of the local leadership and got people to apologize to the town. buzz roy was the local hero. they still, trying to keep the roadblock. the perfect american story about how small town america reacts to something like the department of homeland security. you read the quote where talked about the counterterrorism experts in lucrative government contracts and all of that. stevengle out a guy named emerson. why? of the godfather of counterterrorism experts in america. she was ahat journalist for a while and then he kind of moved into being more the researcher and consultant on
terrorism and prior to 9/11, he became really outspoken about of islamt -- threat jihadists. he was proven right by 9/11. he became a consultant to a lot of organizations and a lot of people work for him in the 1990's have moved on to a lot of other organizations. criticslem is that the of emerson today saying he has never kind of -- he has become too inflexible of his views of osed byect -- threat p muslims overseas. you have a whole generation of people who have started with emerson who kind of shared that same view among the class and independent, outside terrorism
researchers, who are not flexible enough in their aching of muslims and the real threat posed to the united states. >> what is your opinion of the people on television and give your views about terrorism and what impact it has on the way we govern this? , media and theo to hypent, are taken the threat constantly. there's like no punishment for being too, go too far towards fear mongering. that is the real problem. you can do to the ratings on television. by talking endlessly about the fear or threat or possibility of a terrorist attack. had itber lindsay graham
is our rages quote on television about how, they will come over and kill us all. but not ans a threat existential threat to the united states. the whole point is it is used by groups that do not have equivalent military force to the country they are trying to terrorize. it into context and remember these are small groups that can be dealt with. we do not have to transform our whole society in order to do it. --stuart a bolan was a use was an inspector general for iraq. .et's look at his previous for. is not well accounted hasdepartment of defense certain rules it adopted and
lost it should follow and account for and it accounted through his own mechanism for the most part it is not lost. except for the $2.6 billion that were not able to account for and we will follow up and find out what happened to it. that's a larger issue. as part of the cause of the continuous changing plans -- and because of the continuous changing plans and a significant amount of u.s. money has been wasted. >> that was in 2010. how much you estimate has been lost? bowen was the only u.s. official who really tried to investigate what happened to all of the money the united states sent to iraq. there are different estimates. over $11 billion of the roughly
$20 billion in iraq he money that in the united states sent to iraq was unaccounted for. foundowen's investigators was nearly $2 billion in cash after00 bills was stolen it was flown from the air force base to baghdad apparently by powerful iraqis and was being hidden in a bunker in lebanon. had stoleneople who it after it had been airlifted by the u.s. air force to baghdad . they were hiding give for safekeeping for future use. >> do we know who those people are? >> not sure but they were working with the powerful lebanese to be able to hold it in lebanon the way they were. move $2s it possible to billion and $100 bills from iraq
to lebanon and not have someone not even an american official know about? >> that is the question -- did they know about it? it would take some infrastructure to do that. some logistics and we do not know how they did it. did it or or not -- not. it is one of the questions that apart from bowen, no one in the u.s. government or iraq government seems to be interested in getting to the bottom of. stuart, i detailed how he went to the f ei and cia and other agencies and no one was interested in helping him find the money. >> do have any idea why? >> not really. part of the problem was it was iraqi government money. it was the development fund for iraq, which was created after the u.s. invasion to hold large
revenuesf iraqi oil that they were given from oil sales after the invasion. it builds up very quickly. since is was not u.s. taxpayer's money, the cpa was able to have it airlifted over by the which administration with very few strings attached. bushich administration -- administration with very few strings attached. it is not u.s. taxpayer money so why should we care? i have a scene in the book where bowen means -- meets primus or malady he makes sure he knows about the -- prime minister mala di and he makes it known he knows about the money. --aki
>> you talk about money being flown over there, was a $20 billion? how was it physically flown there and what time? theurrency taken out of currency facility of the federal reserve bank in new york and trucked from new jersey to the air force base in washington and 7's to iraq.n c-1 s and i met the plane described the guy who ran the convoys, who is a fascinating character, who learned to maneuver through war-torn baghdad without losing the money. money tod convoy the the iraqi central bank. >> american dollars? >> all u.s. $100.
>> to be used for? >> the ideal was supposedly to help the iraqi government pay its bills and give a big jolt to the economy. essentially a cash infusion into the baghdad. there was virtually no oversight because it was iraqi money, u.s. didrnment officials kind of not really seem to be too curious about what happened. have we notmoney accounted for, american money used for american purposes over there? cannot remember the exact number. i think something like $64 billion in taxpayer money went for reconstruction in iraq over the duration of the war. difficult to see how much of that actually did much
good in iraq. many of the projects, bowen's office and you look at reports they did, one after another after the failed reconstruction projects they tried to do. many of them were done without -- the u.s. would build or develop some project with very little input from the rockies in themselves and do so as we would build it, the rockies would've and in it. brothers? the [laughter] >> they are the founders and owners of the company that built the predator and drones that have been the signature weapons of the war on terror. the predator as you know became the weapon of choice of the united states in afghanistan and iraq and elsewhere in pakistan is the reaperone
which is larger and more powerful. >> why did you write about them? >> i wanted to write about people -- i was thinking about eric prince, the founder of blackwater, who made a noisy presence in washington about the war on terror. someonee a symbol of who had made money from the war on terror and i thought, there's a lot more people, much quieter than no one knows about, that have not flamed out as spectacularly as eric and blackwater did. who quietly have gone about their business and made a lot of money from the war on terror. i tried to talk about some of the corporate people, the choir people,ple -- quieter
with had a less profile than the iconic figures. >> where did the brothers live? >> california. they are originally from colorado. their company is in california. it started out, the company kind corporation,han went from one owner to another. 1990's, it began to develop drone technology and the drones, they first had an impact in the 1990's as surveillance platforms. it was not until right after use when this experimental of weaponize drones was approved for use in afghanistan that dron e technology and trend took off.
hee blue brothers became t godfathers of drones. >> have they done well? >> yes, their company -- i forgot the exact numbers. the numbers may be off because i do not have them in front of me. the defense contract of about $100 million at the time of 2001 and now 10 years later, like over $1 billion. >> i want to switch subjects for a moment. you are in the middle of a controversy, it is complicated but you have been at the new york times for how long now? >> 16 years. >> how long has the government and threatening to put you in prison? >> well, they first sent me a
nasty message in 2007. then they subpoenaed me in 2008. >> or what reason? inmy last book they came out 2006. i have a chapter about a botched they -- then and bush administration launched an investigation. and then, i was subpoenaed as part of that. the obama administration renewed the subpoenas and continued the investigation and they subpoenaed me several times. at first the trial judge quashed the subpoenas abutted the obama administration appealed and the appeals court sided with them. >> your name came up in the
white house briefing. the press secretary was giving a briefing and let's watch some of it. >> is the administration also has a long track record over the many months of complaining of leaks involving national security. well see the rest to report like james risen, who could potentially be thrown in jail. phone records gone through. we are going back to the israel sloshing offe you the idea of you do not care who leaked the story? reporterse gone after to find out who leaked information and when it comes to insult and the prime minister, you do not seem to care. >> i do not think is an accurate administration of the administration -- description of the administration. in fact, they put in place
measures to ensure that journalist and this country are able to do their job and the attorney general has made a pretty clear statement about what we agree is a commonsense principle which is -- we have made really clear, the attorney general, what is a commonsense principle that journalists should not face jail time for doing their job. is -- my -- the point view, maybe my own personal view, my view about the most effective way to deal is to make readers of you and your and viewers understand precisely what the administration's policy is of israel and prime minister netanyahu. >> what you think about what he said about the attorney general saying a journalist should not face jail for doing a job?
is that a position you are in? >> i do not know what he is talking about. my case isis that ongoing and the trial starts in january. i do not know what the government has in mind. >> do expect anything to be done to you between now and january? >> i do not know. i am waiting to see. >> you said you would go to jell. why? , and they tooknt a position in the appeals court in which they laid out, despite what they say, these talking points from the white house. their official legal position indicates a was, we do not alieve that a reporter -- reporter privilege exists in a criminal trial. they do not believe that reporters have any right to
maintain the confidentiality of that is theand official legal position of the justice department right now. turned this has case and to a fundamental showdown over free press and america. we cannot have investigative america without confidential sourcing a you cannot have a democracy without an aggressive reporting and press. >> one of your former colleagues, judy miller, went to prison for a doctoral months. haven't talked to her about her experience was mark >> i visited her in jail. she went through a lot. it was very tough for me i have no interest in going to jail if i do not have to. >> how has it impacted your life? >> at first, it bothered me for the first couple of years but now i've gotten used to it. my best answer is to write
another book and to keep working. "pay any price" is my answer to the government. you cannot stop me. you cannot shut me up. >> what is your relation with the "new york times?" >> i still work there. the first book because they would not publish some of the information. >> i was planning it anyway but i added material that -- i added the story when the government got them not to run it. but before the book came out, i told them it will be in the book. >> what was their reaction when the book came out? >> they put it in the paper before the book came out. it had resolved itself. >> material and a new book they were not put in the paper. >> no. [laughter] >> let me show you a fellow by the name of bill binney, who is
in your book. some video we have. he is being interviewed. it speaks for itself. >> i guess the first question is, what snowden have latched has turn out to be true? >> i know it is true. i did not take documentation with me. snowden realized from what othersd to us and some and john, he saw the whistleblowers. he felt if he was going to say anything after leaving, he would have to have documentation so he would not have -- you would not be question. it will be the documentation of the government's programs. the best evidence with him with that documentation. >> who is bill binney?
>> he was a topic nsa official, who ran their stock works at the time of 9/11. experimentalrge of office to work on new experiments with how to deal with the internet and things like that. and so, he was a real geek. had developed along with some of these other people, he developed this program before 9/11 that he thought could help the nsa deal more effectively with the growth of the internet and digital information. he felt that before 9/11 and in the 1990's he had a running argument with a lot of people at the nsa over the fact that nsa
back in the 1990's was focused on radio technology, radio communications of big government and big militaries like the russians. they were eavesdropping on traditional military and governmental targets around the world on traditional closed networks of communication. he felt the nsa had failed to grasp the importance of the open architecture of the internet that you knew the internet was providing a wide open means of communication and -- that they were not taking seriously because it was not classified. the nsa had a bias toward targeting the secure communications of foreign governments and militaries. in his opinion, ignoring the the new technology and new trend. he developed some technology
that would help harness the nsa the ability to monitor communications in new ways. was at the time, he was kind of dismissed. 9/11, and ther shock that in the nsa went through, he realized they had taken that technology they had inored and were now using it ways he never intended it to be used. they were going to turn it on the american people. so, he very quickly after he learned that the nsa was taking this technology they had more before and instead of using it in the way he thought it should be use and was turning it on the american people. wardld a woman named diane urke what was going on.
she was a house intelligent committee's staffer in charge of oversight of the nsa. after bill binney told her, she went on a painful odyssey to get it stopped. >> i want to ask you more about her what i want everybody to see what she looks like. here's a video clip. it is not too long ago. let's watch. fbi hopes to have 52 million photos back in 2015. and massively through electronics. e-mails,, text, videoconference passports, visas -- large amounts of sexual pornography.
[indiscernible] there is no need. there's no content. their motto is collect it all. what they told me before i left webwe are going to own the and if they do. >> where did she work again? is an interesting character. she starred in the white house and was a staffer in the reagan white house. she is a republican. she went to the house intelligence committee and became a career staff person on the house intelligence committee. late 1990's, she was assigned to oversight of the nsa. 9/11, she had
been conducted oversight for several years. >> how did she and bill then he meet? 1990's when she started doing oversight of the nsa and she was look for people inside of the agency who would give her an honest take on what was happening. she was able to meet binney during briefings create -- briefings. tell herhers began to about problems the nsa was having trying to adjust to the internet a new digital revolution that the country was going through. she began to ask questions even before 9/11 about the way in which the nsa was dealing with the internet and i think that nsa director began to realize that binney was giving her information. as binney described in this confrontation with haden, about a year before 9/11 where binney
got called to the carpet for talking to die in -- diane rourke today effectively ended his career. >> what happened to rourke? >> after binney came to her anotherd heard from person at the nsa about the domestic spying room and how they turned it -- with the program he had developed for domestic spying, she went to her house and he did not want to talk about on the phone. he told her about the domestic spying program and the creation. she was shocked. she thought it had to be -- initially she she thought he had to be proved -- approved by anybody because it was so illegal. thewent to her bosses, staff director of the house intelligence committee and
minority staff member to say, i want to tell the chairman and ranking member about this domestic spying program. >> who was the chairman but smart -- chairman? who ended up in the head of the cia? back, shesage she got did not get to see the right away. the message she got back was stop asking about this. they do not talk about it anymore. she realized they already knew about it. she started going all over washington to very powerful people she knew both of from the intelligence community and the white house and even the judiciary to try to warn them about it. every place she went, she realized this powerful people already know about it and they are keeping their mouths shut. >> she is no longer in the government? >> she stay in the governor for a while and finally she got to
him, you haveold to start asking questions about this. you have to realize it will lelak. -- leak. goss began to ask more questions of haden about it. she retired shortly after but haden told goss that he wanted to meet with diane rourke even though she retired. headeden is no longer the as said he does not think he should go to prison. >> an interesting comment by him. >> i want to show you president was a u.s.05 when he senator talking about the patriot act which has direct motion with what we have been talking about. this is about 30 seconds and get your reaction to this.
know whyeone wants to their own government has decided to go on a fishing expedition through every personal record or private document from the library books you read, the phone calls you have made, the e-mail you have sent, this legislation gives people no right to appeal the need for such a search in a court of law. no judge will hear your plea. no jury will hear your case. this is just plain wrong. >> yeah. a very different than what he has to day. -- review than what he has to day. one of the central points in my book is that he has made the war on terror will permanent. he has extended the bush counterterrorism programs, including surveillance. one of the biggest legacies of his presidency is going to be that he made the war on terror a bipartisan
enterprise and made it permanent . whereas bush and cheney have been be acting on an ad hoc way after 9/11. obama has made it permanent. >> here he is as president. >> what i did not do is stop these programs wholesale. not only because i thought they made us more secure, but also because nothing in that initial review and nothing i've learned since indicated that our intelligence community has sought to violate the law are cavalier the liberties of their fellow citizens. anthe contrary, in extraordinarily difficult job, one in which actions are second-guessed, successes under reported and failure can be catastrophic, the men and women
of the intelligence community, including the nsa, consistently follows protocols to protect the privacy of ordinary people. >> it sounds exactly like george bush. >> what happened? why should we think that bush and obama are right? -- and the whole point of a democracy is to question our government. what i think happens is the executive power once you to take on the mantle of power and it is seductive. everybody tells you what you want to hear in every body is doing every thing they can to help you accumulate greater power. should you question the people giving you greater power? why should you question the people getting every e-mail and phone call?
the recipient of all of that power so watch you question it? way for us toy know what the nsa doing? >> and that's the problem, there's no oversight. congress conducts oversight supposedly in their our civil liberties boards that do it. there's no real transparency for the american people. one of the things that is interesting to me, the contrast between what happened with senator ron wyden and edward snowden. ron wyden was a member of the senate intelligence committee for several years before edward snowden started leaking. he took to the floor the senate as said, there's something shocking going on that if the american people knew about it, that would be totally shocked, but i cannot tell you about it because it is less of five. he is a sitting senator who believed something was deeply
wrong but he was afraid to talk about. -- because it is classified. after edward snowden began to leak the into ron wyden oh public and say that is what i was talking all-powerful -- talking about. the checks and balances in my mind are questionable. >> back to your book where you talk about contractors. who is mike esemos? >> he was a fascinating character. the guy, maybe the most intriguing figure of the whole post-9/11 world. i'm still not entirely sure what to make of him today. >> where does he live? >> i am not sure. >> have you talked about -- have you talk to him? >> not recently since the book came out. firm, hired by a law
motley rice. >> who is motley? charleston, who the biggestof sediments and the united states. the lead lawyers in the tobacco industry settlement with all of the states in which the tobacco industry had to pay like $240 billion to a lot of different states. partners, got his a large fees from that, billions of dollars. the movie "the insider" was based partly on his life. , after aco settlement huge victory, wondering what he should do next. 9/11 happened and he began to
get calls from some of the families of victims of 9/11. eventually to represent them in a class action lawsuit against saudi arabia. which wouldlawsuit be the biggest lawsuit in history. he was going to sue the saudis and entities and individuals for financing al qaeda and terrorism and 9/11. after he did this, he realized he needed to hire investigators to have -- to help him. he went through other investigators and finally, one of them that he hired was mike esemos, who was a west point graduate and had kind of a mysterious background of involvement with the u.s. government.
along with other investigators, again going around the world looking for information. it was not entirely clear in hindsight who he was getting information for. whether for motley rice or for the u.s. government as part of an intelligence operation. he would say to me and other people that he had been sent to wolf in theby paul government and others. there was a time when he showed whon baghdad with forces, then kicked him out out of baghdad. it is a very strange story, but workingnd, he ended up for motley rice. he also arranged to lure a drug
lord back to the united states. and the drug lord was brought to new york and arrested and prosecuted and the confusion over who he was really working operationether the she was doing for motley rice was really a government front for an intelligence operation or what was really going on is a mystery that goes on today. i thought it was such a fascinating story because to me what it captured, kind of the nature of the war on terror about how difficult it is to tell what is real and what is not real. me, i come away from the whole debate of terrorism, do we really know what we are fighting
and why we are fighting, who we are fighting and what we are really doing? that idea of what is real and what is concocted, i tried to capture in that story. aboutl wonder to this day some of the things we have done and i do not think -- when the problems is nobody in the government wants to go back and look. born in cincinnati and went to brown university, 1977 and northwestern medill school to get your journalism degree and went to work for what paper? >> first job was in ft. wayne, indiana. i went to the miami herald. again detroit free press. then los angeles time and new york times. forhat is the difference
you when you have a story that runs in the new york times compared to the other papers? >> the impact is huge, that is the difference. -- people all around the world notice stories. and it just has an enormous echo chamber that you get from writing for the "new york times." >> what kind of grade would you give the new york times and this period? >> going back to what happened with the nsa story? >> how do they view you? are you a pain in the neck? >> they are very nice to me recently. we had the whole experience with the nsa story in 2004 and 2005. since then, they have been very supportive and i really appreciate it.
chris if you go to prison, would you get paid? >> i do not know. i hope so. >> what is your sense of what will happen to you? >> i do not know, i really do not know. it is in limbo. >> is a trial of jeffrey sterling in january? >> yes. >> he is whole? >> i cannot get into the details. i will not talk about. >> for what reason? can't.st i cannot discuss the details of the case. the last little area before we close it down. you opened in the prologue by -- two sentences. former deputy secretary --
metaphor that was a is real issue of what and what is not in the war on terror. , that was april 9, 2009, barack obama had just started his presidency. april 9 was the sixth anniversary of the fall of baghdad, the sixth anniversary of the day of which u.s. troops pulled down the statue of saddam hussein in the square. it kind of marked as i did day that saddam lost the war. later, as you may remember the war in iraq was going badly or had been going badly for several years, the wasch was underway -- surge underway. for the american people, the war
was something they wanted to forget about. there was a lot of bitterness about what had happened in iraq. there was a small loop of war supporters, who gathered in 60 and they had a small ceremony to celebrate iraq liberation day. it was probably the only place in the united states where there was anybody celebrating the sixth anniversary of the fall of the statue. and palm wolfowitz came and i was there and there was a woman, who was a socialite, who is the sponsor of this event. a number of people gave speeches including, the iraqi ambassador to washington. i walked -- after the ceremony was over, i walked through the
arlington cemetery with wolfowitz and he seemed upbeat. we had exchanged small talk. i found it was a very emblematic of one administration holding the all for the war of terror to another. but then a strange thing happened. two years later, a murder in georgetown and her husband was arrested and her husband was a man who went around washington dressed as any iraqi general. he claimed to be an iraqi army general. in fact, the police found a kinko's receipt showing he had fabricated the letter from the prime minister appointed him as a general. i thought this was a perfect little -- what did we really know about the war and what
don't we know? >> where's the husband today? >> he is in prison and he was convicted of first-degree murder this year. >> james risen, our guest. the book is called "pay any price: greed, power and endless war." thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> for free transcripts or to give us your comments, visit us at q-and-a.org. "q&a" programs are also available as c-span podcasts. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> british prime minister david cameron takes questions at the house of commons. former presidents bill clinton theyeorge w. bush
launched the scholars program. at 11:00 p.m., another chance to .ee q&a with james risen night, the communicators. >> my class. every buddy should rethink competition. most businesses tell you how to compete more effectively. mine tells you that perhaps you should not eat at all. as a founder or entrepreneur, you should always aim for something like a monopoly, a company that is such a breakthrough that you have no competition at all. >> monday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern on the communicators on c-span2. >> wednesday in the british house of c