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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  January 12, 2015 10:00am-12:01pm EST

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of that debate. the heritage foundation begins a conservative policy summit today and washington d.c. speakers will include ted cruz and do some new members of congress. >> later this week, the house will determine what amendments will be allowed for the homeland security and immigration spending bill. >>here are a few of the comments that we have recently received on the 114th congress. >> the thing that really needs to happen is going back to what the incoming majority said __ they need to get back to regular order. if they go back and pass the 13 bills they need to fund the government, then everyone can see who voted on what.
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then, send it to the president. >> i hope it is a more mature congress that we see emerging in the next two years. i think emblematic of the situation is an irresponsible congress __ we can see that reflected in his john boehner challenge. it is time for both parties to put aside the bitter partisan battles and get on to the task that they are constitutionally required to do __ govern and legislate. i think what the american people set in november of both parties is that it is time to see that finally happened. >> i think this 114 congress __ what can we expect to them? it's like all the politicians are bought and sold.
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who are they representing? us? the first thing on their agenda is the keystone pipeline. >> frankly, the american people are prepared to get past the polished language, the false promises. we need you to understand, sir, that you work for us. we have seen nothing but foreclosures, people in the street. frankly, we're tired of the silly games being played. we do not believe anything that we are hearing anymore. >> continue to let us know what you think about the programs you're watching. call us at 202_626_3400. email us, or send us a tweet. join the c_span conversation, like us on facebook, follow us on twitter.
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>> in 2011, nasa astronautcady coleman did a flute duet with __ >> who knew that jethro tull's ian andersonwas the space enthusiast. we are honored for you to join us today. >> i am needed elsewhere, otherwise i would love to be there.
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>> we have a lot of astronauts in the audience and space people. i think the first question that people want to know is what got you interested in space? >> growing up in a time when we had just come out of a fairly meaningful world war. as kids growing up in the 50's were aware of the incredible cultural significance of america's presence in the world. without whom, i think would not have one. you have that sense of indebtedness. it led to a sense of fascination about what was going on. as things developed over the next few years __ the impact of the american culture __ and of course the rise of the cold war tensions, development of rocket
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science. i suppose by the time i was 10 years old, i was devouring anything that had to do with rocketship, and the earliest forms of science fiction. into my teens, i suppose i got to know a lot of fanciful notions of rocketry and interplanetary travel. i knew that it was intrinsically a little overoptimistic in my lifetime. i suppose i have concentrated more on what was really happening out there __ the momentous words of your ex_president jfk. he said, we choose to go to the moon, not because it is easy, but because it is hard. that became a bit of a model in my life.
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a resonated with me as a schoolboy, along with the motto of my old school __ let us follow better things. there was a kind of duality and optimism about those two models. guided me through those years. the first time i got to america in 1969 __ the year of neil and michael's expedition __ and the excitement that the world felt on that momentous day. i think, for once, the world gathered and congratulated the world. that was really the closest that america has ever come to universal approval. and the feeling back, we, homo sapiens did it.
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>> you are so interested in that moment that you wrote a song about it. >> that is correct. we touched on the essence of the lonely man. of course, it was drawing straws as to who got to put the boot prints on the surface of the moon. we now know that contingency plans had to be there if the other two guys did not make it back. he would have to try and return to planet earth. that made him the loneliest man in the known universe facing
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the possibility __ that he might have to leave them. >> given all your interest in space, do you have any interest in spending some money with the russians to fire up the space station? >> if you asked me to sign up and get something from the top shelf, i will probably find a willing volunteer. i have no preference for heights. i think i would be suffering so much from vertigo, i would not go anywhere. i'm not made of the right stuff. i'm pretty much 98% a rock star. >> your flu has certainly been up to space. you and your astronauts friend, cady coleman, did a flute duet. could you tell us about that experience?
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aand do us the honor of introducing katie __ cady to the audience. >> somehow, i think due to someone in the radio world in texas, knew a friend, or knew a friend of a friend of cady, and pass the word to me that she was a keen amateur flute player. and that maybe i would want to get in touch with her. i did, and it was arranged that she would take, not only my flute, but her flute. she had my flute, her flute, and the flu from one of the chief of the irish band.
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she went heavily armed with weapons of massive destruction in her very small amounts of personal cabin baggage. >> tonight, ian anderson and i would like to celebrate the role that humans play in expiration of our universe __ past, present, and future __ by sharing some music between earth and space. ♪
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♪ >> ladies and gentlemen of planet earth, please give a warm welcome to cuddily cady on
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the inside, but a tough professional on the outside. here comes colonel catherine coleman. [applause] >> i think the other explorers were taller than me. well, that was pretty wonderful for me to see ian. i think the way he comes across there is just the way he is. in every interaction i have with him, he has an enormous knowledge and respect for space. you have heard from several astronauts today, it is really fun to talk about it with.
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he was one of my favorite people to do that with. a friend of mine in houston had written to him, and found him for me. when he mentioned how little we get to take the space __ these days we get to take 3 pounds of stuff with us. it is not very much. when i was on my way up to space, the space shuttle program was delayed just enough that there would be a shuttle coming up while i was there. what that meant was that whatever i took would have a way home. it's not so much about getting it up there, it's about getting it home. so i had about two weeks to find some things and bring them. my friend wrote to his manager and said cady needs one person, someone very efficient and reliable. he wrote this note to me by
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email saying, i've been known to be reliable, i take showers, i'm quite clean and neat, most days. we have been friends ever since. and i told friends that if they took his food to space, they could play with him too. today, i wanted to share a little bit about what has been like for me. i've been an astronaut since 1992 __ i don't know that makes me sound old __ i'm the most senior active astronaut. saying that, but line is pretty long, it is amazing to be in it. it is a very special place. they are all incremental steps. all of those here who have an
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interest in exploring, we all have a part in these journeys. i thought i would show a series of photographs they can understand more about what it was like to go. this is the irish flute that i took up. i must say __ we touch our fears here many times. i will show you what i do in my job. i am trained, and there's every reason to be confident to go up and do what you need to do. but, playing on stage in front of crowds of people, that is scary. it is pretty cool to have the instruments of their. but before you do this, or this __ there are a lot of things you need to learn. before you go and live in a place like this __ it looks
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small, but __ >> houston we have a problem __ >> there we go. we live in this piece here, it is about 10 chain cars put together. it is actually a pretty big place. some of the lessons that we need are how to get along with people, and make the most of your experience. this is my favorite picture from going to antarctica. that is because this is my neighborhood. this little dot __ that is my camp, and i was not a camping girl. living in a scott tent for six
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weeks. altogether, our team gathered about 1000 meteorites. it was an amazing place. i learned a lot about myself, and being in a small group. it was a team of 12, but eight people were in one part of antarctica, and four of uswere near the south pole living in tents for six weeks. it taught me a lot about getting along with people. also, you do not have to be best friends with everyone, you have to realize they need to get what you want out of it, and be content and happy within yourself. in my tent __ i brought my
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two_year_old and husband. i was a last_minute replacement for this antarctica mission. i got a phone call from someone in the office who said, hey, you were volunteer for the antarctica mission, are you still a volunteer? i said, yeah, i will go tomorrow. i said, i will discuss this with my family, and i will call you in five minutes, but i was already thinking, yes. my husband was very supportive. he is in the back there. [applause] there are all sorts of folks __
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we have a big support team. people who really make me feel like i can go away and do the things, and be doing the right things by my family. it was an amazing place. i got to live 11 days underwater in a habitat. that was almost as wonderful as space. i do not know about the rest of you who are speaking here today, but up there, i did not meet anyone new. underwater, you have neighbors. it is an amazing place. exploit __ exploring under the ocean was something that was really real in my family. getting to where this diving suit, and do diving was very meaningful.
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this is the front door, which is really the bottom of our habitat. the place that we stayed __ commonality, the small space, few people. you need every ounce of everybody on your team. our mission at that point was to understand and exercise tell a robotic surgery. i was worried at first they would be on each other. it turns out that it is on these dummies. it was pretty interesting to learn how to do that. i can take out the gallbladder __ if any of you want to stand in line. in order to get this robot down to the habitat, we could not get the second and third robot arms with us. that is part of the reason we have missions like this.
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what are ways that we can have surgery on the battlefield, and have surgeons not be so close. this is my expedition crew. we are sitting in front of our very own suite. for that journey, i wanted to share a little bit about what it was like to do an expedition as a family. this is my husband and son. you will see, going to launch from their perspective. i did not get to vote on when i went to the space station, it was december. i'm sure bill has better pictures of the space systems
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from moscow. this is what it is like to launch from space. to me, this monument says that. having my son understand a little bit about what iit is like to live in another country. this place where things are so different, and my mom is spending time with these folks. this is the first woman to go to space. it was amazing to be able to meet her. i have met her several times. she wanted to make sure that we had tea before going to space. she is a really wonderful woman. it was a traveling adventure. i traveled in russian airplanes, not quite what it is
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like traveling here. you meet the folks in the front, and it feels to fine. then, someone pulls out a wrench, and brings the front door. that is not the most confidence building saying, but everyone else was confident, and he was confident. we are in quarantine in this picture. in fact, bill you are probably in this picture. this is our quarantine. they invited the press in for one day. this is the sign outside of the quarantined. i have a very clever husband, he said, even though there are rules __ we follow the rules __
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but there is always a way. it was nice to say goodbye. my son is not under arrest. i will say, rockets are rockets. getting to meet the swat team in florida when i launched, that was pretty high on his list. i was sure with all the nasa supervision, i was sure that everyone was doing fine when i was doing my last training exercises. they were under the leadership of them. we got to plant a tree __ a russian tradition. it may not look like a tree, and it still may not look like a tree, but that is my tree. there is a little planet at the base of that tree.
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to me, they're all these signs of astronauts names __ it is a very special group to be a part of __ watching the rocket go out. i did not get towwatch my rocket, but you get to see the backup rocket. we are actually in quarantine at this point, but the family gets to see the rocket on the pad. >> this is a demonstration __ >> i do not know how they get on there. one question that comes up on the screen, and then it is answered forever __ it makes you crazy. this is the launch.
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you sign the door that you stay in. the russian priest blesses everybody. we are behind glass. i begged the guys to take small steps and slow ones. they did not listen. if you see the whole film, it looks like i'm running to the rocket. then, launch. we're up in that little tiny part of their. it is hard to describe when this moment happens. watching is terrifying. it takes a long time for that rocket to lead the pad.
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when you're inside, it starts, and you are not stopping. now, we're up in the space station. this is my favorite scene in the whole film. it is not about floating around up there __ it is like living on a different planet, and you fly from place to place. this was launch from my family's point of view. walking out to the bus, saying goodbye. this picture practically makes me cry. it is hard to leave folks on the ground. after lunch, everyone is celebrating. i had 12 friends and family that came to launch.
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it was great for us to be together. now, i live vicariously through john, because he is involved in these expeditions. this is the crew. you may recognize someone, he is the twain of mike kelly. heat is on the way to space station to spend one year in space. he is a neat guy. i will introduce the rest of the crew __ the thing that i would like you to look at is to realize that this is a picture of all of us really excited about going to space. [laughter]
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tthe thing is __ this is a picture of us excited about going to space. if you find a picture of our crewmate, in the middle there, you will see pictures of him and he will look just the same. we had a very important job to do. i was the second person to catch a free flying supply ship. these are supply ships built by orbital sciences. in this case, we are capturing the japanese supply ship. just this morning, the space station crew released the space
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dragon __ the fifth of their ships to be at the international space station. it is now something that happens __ it is a commonplace as that. for us on board, it is not commonplace. when this thing comes to you, it is as big as a school bus. so, this is where that performance factor comes in. what i tell people who have not done this before, i tell them, when it comes there, it is really big. it is distracting in a way. the reality of capturing it and doing it safely. we happen to capture right over __ look at this picture. this is right after capture. i look out the window, and i
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see lake ontario. here is one island in the hudson. way off there is cape cod. it is a good place to capture the supply ship. we got a lot of cool things. this is chocolate from the russians. this is really what we get from the supply ship __ up there, wwe're trying to figure out scientific things, combustion, how did things burn. combustion happens down here in a very dynamic way. measurements that we have to make them less than one second down here, in space we can make
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them in about 30 or 40 seconds. math is easier, measurements are easier. you can learn how pollution is being formed __ it is a laboratory beyond any other. these are crystals that we can grow. this diagram is really the most beautiful thing on the page. in in this tiny part of it, we do not know this tight structure exists. wwe do a lot of medical experiments. bbone must research alone is very significant.
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we lose bone 10 times faster than a 70_year_old woman with osteoporosis. so, what she loses in one year, i live in one month, if we do not do something about it. so, we do exercise. we also have a weightlifting machine __ it is really based on resistance. if you go from 6 pounds to 600 pounds. this is really what it is like for us. the exercise machine is actually upside down. down there is where we look out the window and take pictures. . we exercise about two hours per day i cannot give you anyone else's data, bike came back with the same amount of bone as i left __ it does not mean it is the same.
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we do a lot of blood and urine collections. that is what is significant about the space ex that was released today. it came off a few weeks ago, they've been doing experiments. it was released from the space station, let go at 2:23 pm __ that is when it will land in the pacific ocean. those samples that we, and others, have collected are coming back to earth. it is phenomenal research. that is a phenomenal point of view. i like having a shot showing how small the station is in comparison to earth.
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on our mission, we took 60,000 pictures. i can't wait for you to hear from bill after me. i reviewed his pictures, and i love what they tell you. it's really a magical place. this is aurora borealis. it is an amazing view from up there. very special. educational, as well. italy __ shaped like a boot. we saw this kind of view of new england in the daytime, beautiful weather.
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we looked down, i love being from massachusetts, al said, oh my gosh, it looks just like the map. today, i think we're a little closer __ in the winter, it is a little easier to find your way around. here's cape cod. i live right up here in western massachusetts with my family. either fortunately, or unfortunately, i worked full_time in houston, texas. here is a more up close and detailed picture. i love to have pictures when i look straight down and can see them in a detailed way. i realize that everyone down
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there is doing something, and i wonder what it is. there also views __ you saw all those windows __ that is a very different structure that we have ever had. i think that is something to think about in explorations, how do you experience that exploration. before this, we had portholes. you know hawaii is somewhere, but he goes by really fast, and it is tiny. you are always trying to glimpse it. when you have windows all the way around, you can see when something is coming. then, you see it receding in the distance. you can also see the curve of the earth. i think it gives you the feeling of being more human the present.
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things like this remind me of what it is like to see her home receding in the distance, and then you know that in 90 minutes you will be back around again. this is not myself, but i love this picture __ i feel like it is the opinion of a human and the relationship with their planet. then it is time for landing. i did not really want to come home. one of my fellow astronauts said, if i could bring my family with me, i would never go home. i feel that way also. but, if you are landing, you better focus on landing. scott kelly likes to say that it is like going over niagara falls in a barrel, on fire, followed by a collision. bill to these wonderful
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pictures. if it was not for these, i do not know if i would remember what it felt like landing. i landed like $1 million. i would say, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. i think it was a little easier to be a smaller person. as beautiful as is, for me, it was nice to be home. this is our farm in western massachusetts __ an unbelievably gorgeous place. it is nice to have home and work so close. all the dimensions of the places that we live. i show these pictures at the end because as far as exploration, you do not have to go far. it is about the spirit. we have some pretty amazing places right here on our planet,, in our backyard.
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these beautiful views. these are all pictures that my husband took. beautiful places. you want to capture that very moment, and keep it. one of the ways to do that is to take pictures. this is a aurora borealis over our house in massachusetts. this week might be a good week for that. it is nice to come back to your family. we took this picture about two weeks after i came home. there's something so wonderful about being home. it is important to remember that there are folks who make that all happen. their __ they are friends and family. he sent me this picture in space to show that he was feeding our child balanced meals.
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really, the time that our child eats the worst is when he is with his mother. my husband is a glass artist. some of the apollo folks who are here today __ tto me, he made these planets long before we met. he was inspired by michael collins. he said that when he looked back at earth, he could cover it with his thumb. in the 3 pounds, he __ i managed to bring a planet. some people do this kind of exploring by going physically on an expedition, some people
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tell stories, right movies, books,, and music that takes us to those places. when it all comes to an end __ it comes down to a family, and knowing that you will leave them at home with their cat, who thinks he is a dog. i will just finished saying __ in terms of curiosity and expiration, the people who were all younger than all of us in this room, they are the answer. they need to have this kind of look, and excitement, and i think here in the explorers club, you bring a big piece to explanation. this picture of myself and the crew __ when you see this __ my third grade teacher did not know that i would be in this picture.
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no one knew in high school, maybe not in college, and for a long time. that is why we have to take care of all those kids __ we do not know who will be in this picture, or calling us from the space station to say hello. we have a lot of exciting things to do in the space program. it is the vehicle. it is a way to get places that we are meant to be. it is hard to do things without the space shuttle, but at the same time, it was time to retire it. it is time to get onto other things that we need to do with our commercial partners. getting people and stuff up to the space station. we need to do, and take the risk, for exploration __ things that you cannot ask the companies to do. so, we work together with the
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companies. we make sure that they do their part, while we go to mars, and take all the careful steps we need to do that. i'll tell you __ some of those steps never change. it's nice to look at all the new stuff, but with some things, it is nice to go back to the familiar. thank you [applause] >> before we open it up to the audience for questions __ i have a couple questions myself. how tall are you? >> down here on earth, i am 5'4".
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>> i have to say, when i saw you, i do not recognize you because your hair is not up in the air, what is the deal? >> my hair was about 4 inches shorter than it is now, but it was the weight of gravity. you get to find out, what does it really want to do. it was not in my way, but it was it in a lot of other people's way. >> you spoke a bit about this at the end __ do you think you will be going up to the space station? >> i do not care what ship it is. it is a taxi __ not to belittle them or the technology that helps to make them happen.
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it is about being there, living there. i fully expect __ i would love it to be me __ and you can tell anyone that you want and to pass that along. c_span, i would love to go. it does not have to be soon. the line is long. in building these vehicles, and future exploration, it is not heroes. i know that if you have been on expiration, you have taken something out of your pack, and it did not work. you need to have things designed and have input to really understand how things will work. that is why we need other people to fly. but if they do not go, i will
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go. >> one more question. i know your friend is a mountain climber, i am acclimate myself __ there are some people in this audience who have climbed mount everest. as a woman, up there, do you feel it is any different? on the mountains, it is all the same, we do not care. >> universal __ you do not do __ that __ into the wind. up in space, it is actually easier than any camping trip, as far as privacy, clothes. i had a lot more close up there than i did when he went to antarctica. you know, we are all different.
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when i was up there, i had a marvelous crew of guys. there were things that we all had to figure out. we are all very different. i would explain to them __ think of it this way __ when i would be exasperated about things that they would do and vice versa __ i would say, think of it this way, it is only six months. i think we just enjoy each other's differences. the physical part __ it is really pretty seamless, i did not think much about it. >> we will open it up for a few questions. you in the back. >> hi. following up on a question the gym after the space station that was not answered.
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if you get the right nutrients and do exercise, how does one agent space after long period of time? i guess it depends on time. >> there are some things that are different. we're still definitely finding out. the osteoporosis lessons are pretty huge. every time one of us has a pretty big surgery, and has something taken out, everyone wants to see it. i will have a physical once a year for the rest of my life. cataracts have been an issue due to cosmic radiation of their. it helps us understand more about my health on here. pressure on the brain is one of the things that we are looking at where we are seeing some manifested changes in visions. we look at skeletal things.
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what does it mean when you get taller, then shorter, every day that you exercise of there. the good news is that we get to study a lot of those things. i think when you can do something like that __ >> how are we doing on time? five more minutes. okay. >> thank you. looking to the other side of the dark universe __ what were your thoughts? i really liked the music partof it. what kind of songs did you hear up __ sounds did you hear up
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there? >> looking out into space is beautiful. it is not that much different from down here. for me, it looked deeper. and it was very clear that you are seeing __ it would change everything will second. it was beautiful. in some ways, it was harder to see the constellations because there's so many stars. we would have to turn all the lights out. it was one of her favorite things to do __ to look at space at night, and earth as well. in terms of sound __ inside the space station, it was very mechanical noises. we did a lot to silence things.
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i came back with no degradation to my hearing. >> one more question. >> in the space station, what did you miss the most in a physical and emotional perspective? >> i missed my family. i miss my family a lot. in some ways, it is a wonderful connection to feel. i had every confidence that i would be going back to seeing them and the work that i was doing up there was very important. it was worth being away from them. in some ways, it makes you feel that human to miss them. i exceeded not wish to go home. in fact, the day that i left, i would have really liked to have stayed six months. the prior six months have shown that everyone on earth was doing just great.
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there's so much work to do up there. there's just not enough time to do it. there's not enough time. all of us our constantly wishing that we can have more time up there. the time you spend communicating with the public, making videos that can be shared, i think that is important. and the experiments themselves __ tthat you have a hand in, or unpack __ there are all levels of participation. all those things are invaluable opportunities. i loved being up there, did not quite want to come home. >> i will just say __ our next prisoner will be bill ingalls __ he is a fabulous photographer and friend of cady.
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we have to photograph that we will auction off to help pay for this event. cady cannot find anything officially, but she is here, i think if someone buys that photo, she can sign after. how about a big round of applause. [applause] >> more from the explorers club in just a moment. first, a look at congress returning to the hill today for a short work week. legislative work beginning at 12:00. a measure that exempt local governments from having to provide health coverage for volunteer first responders. also today, the heritage
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foundation starts a summit in washington, d.c.. you can watch coverage on our network c_span 3. later this week, work in the house on the homeland security department, and plans to block the president's immigration reform. >> tonight, on "the communicators." the inventor of the cell phone. >> the ultimate in the spectrum of efficient technology is called spectral dynamics. that includes a lot of things.
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it includes some new technology that is just starting to become laboratory available. where we can use satellites to create a model of the world, so that when someone transmits, they can know if they will interfere with anyone else. you put all these things together, i hesitate to tell you how much efficient we will be. we are talking about __ not about tens of times of improvement, but millions of times of improvement. it is not as crazy as it sounds. we are now trillion times efficient than we were before. so, the thought of being millions of times more efficient in 20 or 30 years is not as crazy as it sounds. >> tonight, at 8:00 eastern on c_span 2.
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>> back to the explorers club in new york city. this next conversation includes astronaut walter cunningham. he was nasa's third civilian astronaut. he talks about the early apollo missions, the space race with russia. >> thank you for coming out so early. we have a big program today. we are very honored to have with us __ to start __ apollo 7 astronaut walter cunningham. we will get into some questions, but walt was on this pivotal program. they have that terrible fire on
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apollo 1, these guys had to go up and make it happen, and they did. thank you. let's hear it for walt cunningham. [applause] >> tthat is a pretty good welcome. i keep fearing that i will call him glenn cunningham __ i'm terrible with names. we were talking before, and i want you to explain this. the numbers 13 and 14 had a lot to do with your career in your life. >> like a lot of people, you learn things later they did not know when it was critical. it must have been about 10 years ago. i got an email from a friend of mine.
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he was the head of public affairs when nasa selected me back in 1963. how many here were alive in 1963? a few of you. anyhow, after i was selected, i met paul hagan. after i left nasa, i wrote a book. a number of people here have that book. paul was a friend of mine. i gave paul copy of that book. about 10 years ago, before paul died, a kind email from him. he said __ oh, i read the book, it was really good.
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i sent an email back, and i said, i gave you that book in 1977, did you just read it? he said, well, i went and check with you said about me. [laughter] very typical. you have one more sentence. he said, you know you are number 14, don't you? >> you are like, what does that mean? >> that is right. in our group, we were the third group of astronauts. they had 7, 9, and 14. i'm only one of the group of 30 that knew where he stood on the selection process. no one ever made it public or anything at all like that. so i got on the phone and called and asked them. he told me. the day that they were announcing this, i press conference, a week before that dean slaten, who was in charge of the astronaut, arranged a meeting with the head of the
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space center. so paul haney was going to be there. paul was on the phone when he started this meeting. so he did not get there when they started. when he finally got off the call , this is the story is telling me. he went down there and went in. deke had just finished naming and giving a brief background of the people selected. the head of engineering -- i have your name problem too. i can't remember his name. but he was the guy that designed the spacecraft. best technical guy we had their. as paul walked in, dkee says you can't do that. that is 13. >> meaning they chose 13 astronauts. >> i could not believe that the technical guy was superstitious
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about 13. and deke says, i want this guy. so if i have to take another one. i am the only one to this day that knows he was number 14. >> had that not happen, who knows? >> at that not happened, i would not be here today. >> fate is the hunter. let's go back to some serious. apollo 1, the fire. where were you? that is just like the challenger for us. >> challenger is probably much more memorable. challenger and columbia. both terrible disasters. but back in that timeframe, and that was in 1967. in 1966, don eisley and i were
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assigned to the crew of what would be apollo 2. and we were living with contractors. i spent to 270 days out at rockwell. there were some things wrong that had to be fixed. so many engineering things. not to mention the operational challenges. try to get changes in for operational uses that they did not want to put in because of one thing. it was not the cost. it was the schedule. kennedy had set, i want a man on the moon this decade. 10 years, you try to do something today in 10 years. but to get there, they wanted to keep moving along. so they started making improvements.
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when they made a block 2 spacecraft, they canceled the second block 1 spacecraft. that was the one we were on. we became backup crew for about three months on apollo 1. that number got changed. >> more fate. >> that is exactly right. we were getting ready for liftoff. it was scheduled in february of 1967. we knew there were things wrong with the spacecraft. we were living with. i can just tell you with it that our guys, i guess you can call it an ego that they had today. but we were all quite or -- all were fighter pilots.
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we had confidence in ourselves. the we needed to find a way to handle the. we knew that the spacecraft was not great. but we were going to fly it anyway. the afternoon of apollo 1 fire we had done that same test the night before, but it was close in so the hatch was open, using external power. we were all going to fly back together in a t38 back to houston. late afternoon, about 5:30 wally and don and i said we are going to go home. so we left. they have been in the spacecraft all day long. when we landed at ellington air force base, the head of our flight operations walked out to meet us. we knew something was wrong.
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the fire had happened while we were in the air and heading back. so it was really a hell of a deal on it. nothing they could do. the whole crew was dead in 19 seconds. i worked on the fire investigation for a while. about three weeks later, deke took us aside and said we're going to be on the first crew. but they remembered it and we ended up being apollo 7. it was the first manned flight. >> you guys are steely and never have any emotion. >> mostly. >> but emotionally, how did it hit you, when you heard that? did you expect something crazy running the programs of quickly? how do they hit you? >> we were shocked it had happened. it was the first time that any astronaut had been killed in a spacecraft. what people do not realize is
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what was going on back in those days. our group of 14, in about three years, i think we lost four of them. airplane exits. we lost roger chaffey. so we kind of understood that. and i do not recall anybody being terribly discouraged by the fire. we really wanted to get the first flight. we were very pleased. and wally was already kind of looking forward to leaving nasa eventually. so his attitude kind of changed on that. he started getting more serious on-the-job. i just felt very fortunate. i do not remember ever really being frightened about flying. you fly airplanes and people get killed all the time.
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you usually find some reason to blame the pilot. because then it would not have happened to you. >> talk about fear. do you have any? [laughter] >> i think i have a little fear from time to time. but in those days, i was too stupid to be afraid. [laughter] there is an attitude thing. i am not a psychologist, i read about a lot of that stuff. i think there is a difference in mentality about how people feel about these things. recognizing it, being aware of it, intellectually, is an important step. i think a lot of people are afraid of things because they do not have the faintest idea what is going to go on. so they are afraid of it.
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and those that learn about things, they may be afraid of it because of what they know. and then there is some kind of a mental quirk that a lot of my friends and people out there today are aware of. brian, i know that he was aware of the things that could go wrong. and you have to have the kind of self-confidence that enables you to handle that. that self-confidence comes from the way you have lived. you faced a lot of lesser things along the way. and you have been able to overcome them. i am afraid we have a society that has been moving away from that. we do not even let our kids had chances to take risks or anything like that. so they are not going to be able to handle the kind of fears going on in life. i feel very fortunate i grew up the way i did. i do not remember ever being afraid.
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>> the right stuff. this program partially is about putting the program, the man program into the context of the cold war. i do not know if you guys know but apollo 7 was the first manned flight. they had sent some of unmanned and they work perfectly. but it is a different deal with real guys out there. so your mission was pivotal. put that in context of the cold war. >> first up, all the other manned launches were not perfect. we had a problem. the press told us they were perfect. >> but we had good engineers. astronauts got the glory because we were at the tip of the spear. but there were 400,000 people that worked on that program. government and civilian employees.
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those people, they had the guts. for example, today we do not think about it, but our management, the management at johnson space center and throughout nasa -- i was mostly familiar with jsc -- management had the nerve to make decisions and go over the results of it. today, it is all too frequently that we reduce those risks to zero. we were fortunate to have people of all fields in those days who owned the program. many of them were much more emotional about the program then i think i was at the time. i was just doing my job. >> part of it was the urgency, right? because of the cold war, everyone believed we had to get the moon first. >> i do not know. but getting back to your question about the russians, we started off -- the russians, from the beginning, it is a little different now. things have changed a lot. but the russians were very
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focused on the public relations aspect of it. they wanted -- for example, when they knew we were planning a second flight for and white to go out and have an eda and test a maneuvering device, they did everything they could to get someone to do it. they did it with a spacecraft that was not built for. that was really risky. they knew they were taking risks and willing to do that just to be out in front. >> so he would be the first to walk in space. >> and he didn't really walk. i know of alexi. he is like the buzz aldrin of the russian program. >> we get it. [laughter] >> i think it was 12 minutes.
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the whole effort was aimed at how to get him back in. the little port that they had there, it was a terrible event. but they beat us by more than a month. so they focus on those kinds of things. it is very dangerous, risky things. on the upside, they have been very fortunate. they have had very few accidents. they have had terrible accidents they had survived. i have been impressed by the. but in those days, by the time we had the gemini spacecraft and keep in mind you are getting my personal opinion. not official statements on these things. the gemini program, that was a more capable spacecraft then i see today in the russian launches. it could maneuver.
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do more things. that was back 40 years ago. 50 years ago. in the meantime, the russians have converted more to what i consider more of an engineering aspect. exploration in the future. it is a lot cheaper for them and has been over the years. we were engaged in a real fight. it was like a fight to the finish to get there. the first time we met any of the russians, it might have been after ed white and -- i can't remember his name. i think is the first time we met any of the cosmonauts. over the years, they have become very good friends. we have organizations that work together. association of space explorers. they get along very well. they're living together at the international space station.
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as a matter of fact, they have outmaneuvered us administratively and cost wise. we are like beginners. >> after your flight, we said we are going to send these guys around the moon because we were worried the russians would do that before us? >> there was great concern about the russians beating us to the moon. we were not exposed to a lot of the military intelligence they might have had. or government intelligence. with us, it was kind of what we knew and felt and heard. but there were people that knew what the russians were doing to push for it. even in those days, they must have had some pictures. the russians were developing the m1 rocket. 10 million pounds of thrust. they were going to go to the moon.
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and they were doing everything they could to do that. what was the focus of the question? >> apollo 8 was originally not going to the moon. and then we sent it up quick. >> and the russians were shooting to go around the moon. not a landing. they do not have any landings set for it. but before apollo 7, probably a month or so before apollo 7 flew, they started talking, not us, the administration people at nasa, about apollo 8 going around the moon. that was a brand-new thing. we had five giant steps to go to the moon. you know, we were going to test the spacecraft in earth orbit. that was what we did. and we were going to test the lunar module. [phone rings] he didn't follow instructions, did he? [laughter] houston, we have a problem.
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>> and then, we test the lunar module in earth orbit. then fly close to or around the moon. and then do the simulation and the landing. well, administrators now -- the administrators did this. they said, we could take apollo 8, and instead of flying a high orbit, we could send it around the moon. they considered everything. it was based on the success of apollo 7. they decided if seven was successful, they would have eight go around the moon. only later did i begin to realize that it turns out that apollo 7 is the longest, most ambitious, most successful engineering test flight of any new machine ever. and the reason it was so loaded,
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at a planned 11-day first mission, was because we had lost 21 months after the apollo 1 fire. a year and a half, maybe a little less. we would have had another flight in there to go to the moon. and we had to do it supposedly by the end of the decade. you're trying to make up for all that. when we went up for an 11 day mission, none of us thought we were going to go 11 days. you could not do that on the first mission. so we were actually surprised and a little irritated towards the end. no film left, no nothing, and we still had to go two more days. >> i want a shower. get me back. >> so that was critical. and because it was successful, apollo 8 went around the moon. and, of course, that is what everybody thinks of as the first of the apollo program these days. >> well, we have to find out from you.
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all the astronauts talk about it. but tell us in your own words, when you first got that view from space. how did it hit you? what was it like? what was weightlessness like? go back. remember. >> i do not have a lot of useful things to say about that. because -- >> you are an astronaut, and you are the right stuff, and you are tough. but go down to your inner -- >> it makes me think i was totally insensitive to those kinds of things. because we knew that, by the -- after one orbit, and we had never been around the world before. hell, i am the only guy i know that went around the world 163 times before i went to europe. [laughter] so when we were up there, we knew we were going to have to separate and come back and simulate a docking with the s4b stage. and so the last thing in the world we wanted to do was screw up on anything.
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we were around the world a couple of times. i just signed somebody's picture, here. on the second time around, we had separated. wally was flying. and i was taking pictures on the -- from the right side. i was taking pictures of the s4b. i was just snapping these pictures. and, all the way across the southern part of the united states, in this picture that i signed, is the 24b. later, only later, did i realize it was taken over where we lifted off. it was taken over the space center down there. to this day, that is my favorite picture that i took in orbit. but at the time, i was not even looking at that. i was looking at what my job was, which was the s4b. that's how we were focused on doing things in those days.
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first time i started getting a thrill -- after that, we separated and went into a different orbit so we could rendezvous and see how that would work out. most of the time, people do not realize how difficult it is to see anything on the ground. did i mention this? >> no, keep going. >> because you look at the international space station, digital film, fabulous pictures. always oriented toward the ground. in those days, we drifted. and you drifted because you did not want to use your fuel and your thrusters. because then you really would have come home early. so we were just drifting. when you think about it, you've got -- we had five windows. they covered about -- i think about 150 degrees.
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the five windows covered about 150 degrees. the biggest was in the hatch. it was a round window, 10 inches in diameter. two panes. about -- i think it was 3/4 inch quartz, best glass you could get separated by a tiny gap. so if the window broke, you can still keep pressure in the spacecraft. unless a window was pointing at the ground, and you are drifting, and you see a tiny little bit of angle you got out there. if it is pointing out the ground and you have a camera and are not involved in some other thing, you might be able to take a picture. if you're looking at the ground keep in mind first off that every 45 minutes, you're going into darkness. 45 minutes darkness. 45 minutes daylight. the camera people did not want
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you to take pictures within five minutes of sunrise or sunset because, in those days, we had kodachrome film. do you remember kodachrome film? >> you could not just keep taking photos like you do today. you had to conserve your film. >> we had a very limited amount of film on board to save weight also. so it had to be pointed down. if you pointed down, 55% of the earth's surface is covered by clouds all the time. the part that is in the clear, that is usually the desert. saudi arabia. never saw a cloud over saudi arabia. it is a wonderful thing to take a picture of. you can take a picture and never even see a city down there in the desert on that. there was a lot of things like this. you did not want to take it more than 30 degrees off the vertical because of the atmosphere up there. it was hard to get pictures. >> we are going to ask some
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questions of the iss astronauts. and, you know, one of your questions -- your question is, do we think that we should have a fighter pilot training or some kind of training like that for today's astronauts? back when you guys did it, most of you guys were fighter pilots, right? >> if you were not a fighter pilot, you did not apply. there was nothing -- there is a lot of changes that has gone on in the people in the space program. for today, you do not have to be a pilot. and one of the reasons you do not have to be a pilot is because, in the space shuttle, which is the greatest flying machine ever built and operated by man -- that may be a minority opinion, but i feel strongly about that -- you always had a couple of pilots. and they did a fantastic job in my opinion. but because of what went on 40 and 50 years ago, we were able to develop hardware and a program where you could carry passengers up.
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you did not have to be a pilot. and that is the way it is now. and now, even with the new capsules they are coming up with, they are going to be able to take people that aren't pilots. back in the days when they did not know what it was going to take, nasa decided to get the people that have the best chance of succeeding. the russians had taken a different attitude. their people in the spacecraft did virtually nothing. they were strapped in. they operated the spacecraft. it has always been operated remotely. even today, it operates remotely. it is not a satisfying thing for an aviator. in those days, we did not do that. and so they made their best guess of what they thought it was. and they took it from the pilot field, all military.
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in fact, our group was the first group where you do not have to have been a test pilot. half of our group was test pilots anyway. you had to have fighter pilot experiences. i have always felt that the advantage that gave us, every one of those people, myself included, we had spent at least 10 or 12 years, sometimes more than that, flying fighter aircraft. in that, you develop the kind of self-confidence it takes. you think you are the best whether you are the best or not. you have to have that kind of an attitude out there. plus we have flown with these people in all kinds of things. i was back -- mine was at the end of the korean war. anybody here remember korea? [laughter] anyway, what that does is give you the sense that you can depend on your life on the other guy in the other airplane. in the spacecraft, the same way. see, we knew that we could bet our life on our associates.
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and that worked out very well. today, they are focused a whole lot lot more on the right kind of diversity in who they select. i noticed they just selected -- after a couple years, they just selected another group of astronauts. and the headline in houston was they had selected eight new astronauts. the big headline was that half women, half men. i mean, that was an accomplishment for somebody, someplace, some particular drive. you know, i, frankly, would not care if they were all women if that was the best that we could get to do the job. but today, they are focusing on a different thing. it is the numbers of it. you have to have the right number of minorities caucasians, all that other stuff. i think it is nonsense, but i am -- but that is just me. and i am an old guy.
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>> but they do not have to have the kind of skills you guys have. there is a lot more automated stuff in the shuttle, right? and in the space station. >> everything in the world is going that way. it is automated. [laughter] i bet i'm the only guy in this room that does not own a cell phone. [laughter] >> buzz aldrin has three or four of them. he is always going one way or the other. >> but that is because i do not want to be trapped with that kind of stuff. but today, it drives all things. some things it is improving. it improves a lot of techniques and different things. but frankly, i have been fortunate enough -- not 10 years ago, i got to fly an f16 and f18, but i had to tell the guy i was flying that he could handle what went on with my display. i did not want to mess around with the computer screen to pick out what i was seeing. i still like the old-fashioned way of flying airplanes,
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unfortunately. >> this guy is old-school. i like it. his cell phone is not going off. because he does not have one. we now rely on russia to take us to the space station. what do you think about the decision to abandon the shuttle before we had a replacement? >> it is kind of interesting because my attitude, and my contemporaries -- our attitude about the space shuttle is probably different than even a lot of people i have talked to involved in the shuttle. keep in mind it is a small group of the people in the shuttle that were in the shuttle, that were the pilots that flew it. they were maybe 25% or 30% of the people in the shuttle. i think they have 500 people now that have been in space, or something like that. you take all kinds of folks with you.
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but i always bet on having these guys on that shuttle. that is my personal opinion. the space shuttle is the greatest flying machine ever built by man. i personally think that the biggest mistake that nasa ever made was canceling the space shuttle without something that was better __ not to something else, but something that was better. now look at what we're doing now, we're going to outside contractors to develop a capsule. some of them looked just like the apollo command module, just slightly bigger, maybe 30% bigger, or something like that.
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doing reentries __ i think the shuttle is i think the shuttle is something like .40. it's a good aviators, a great airplane. i think the missions were absolutely fabulous. the last two shuttles along the way, and that was due to management decisions along the way. the crew, at the time, had their particular position. they said, what we ought to put this off. management made the decisions, and lost the cruise. we all probably remember where we were when those disasters happen. > i just want to open this up to the audience. you must have a view about mars. what is the best way for us to go there. do we go back to the moon first? do we fly directly to mars?
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how do we get to mars? >> i'm nota technologist on this anymore. i form my own opinions. it has evolved over mars. i was on the committee back in 1971, when we are talking about the space shuttle development, and mars. at the time, we talked about going to mars in 1984. in retrospect, i know that was ridiculous. that was extreme. seven years after that, 1991, that would be more likely. 330 years from now, will we be on mars, i have no idea.
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i have been in favor of going to mars. i do not think we will find life that, we might, so what? there are others to want to go back to the moon. then there is the really ridiculous idea to go back to a meteorite, and come back here and take pieces off. the japanese went up two years ago, and brought back a specimen. we still have to focus on mars. the reason we have to focus on mars is because society moves ahead by pushing the next frontier. i mentioned it a couple days ago __ when magellan set out to go around the world back 500
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years ago __ 16 something __ he was going to find the next frontier. he had five ships, and 270 crewmen. one ship made it back. 117 of those 270 were still alive, but they were willing to push the frontier. look at what happened in the western world because they went out and did this. back in the 1960's, the next frontier with space. the moon was representative of __ we're getting away from earth's gravitational pull __ escaping it. the frontier today is mars. people were willing to accept
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the risk back on apollo. we did lose people on the apollo program to do it. look where it is now. pushing the frontier __ there is no economic return. the economic return comes from developing all the things that you need to make it possible. we are all benefiting it from it now. we are all benefiting __ and >> and the cell phones __ >> i will get back to this. i was at mit, by the way, i never graduated from mit. i was there back when they had the computer. it was very important.
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it was hardwired to the system that they had at the time. i wanted you to know this __ we had 38 kb of memory and a computer. kilobytes. does anyone even remember a kilobytes? that kind of development. the reason you pushed the next frontier is for different reasons. i do not believe that you will make money by going out and doing this. the people who are developing things, they will be a will to make money by doing it. the next frontier is mars. i used to think, let's just go to mars, land on it, and return.
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we had the concepts. the main thing to overcome was the radiation problem. i finally came around to agree with the people that we had something to gain if we went back to the moon. that is __ setting up a site where you learn to live when there was no way of surviving out there. like you mention, buzz's push on making one_way trip to mars. the technology and cost of developing a system to you will take out there, flight, land,
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launch again __ terribly expensive. you hear these idiots talking about $5 billion to go to mars. it is outlandish. a cost of $25 million back in the old days to do the whole apollo program. today, if you inflate that, it would be 100 __ $125 million. what i'm getting at is you send stuff up there, try to let them live, resupply, you do the things you can. you have to be willing to push the boundaries.
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>> very well said. with that, i think it will open it up to the audience. >> i just want to add one thing. we talk about apollo 11 today, what you all think of is one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. the story i like to tell __ they left a message on the moon, a microfilm message for all the leaders of the world. microfilm used to be small. i had a chance to look at those. i carried in my pocket for at least 10 years, the message that the prime minister of australia left. prime minister gordon.
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he had a couple of sentences, then he went on to say __ i think this is what we need to be focusing on today, especially today __ may the high courage and technical genius who made this achievement possible be service to the future that mankind will live in a world in which peace, self_expression, and the chance of dangerous adventure are available to all. we need to get back to that thinking. >> i would not disagree. this gentleman here __ >> can you share one of your personal explorer heroes and why?
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>> i grew up admiring __ i always wanted to be a pilot. occasionally i would get to go to a movie on saturday. that was the world war ii. my boyhood hero was charles lindbergh. at a very early age, he was willing to do that __ stick his neck out. he also understood what i'm just stating about prime minister gordon statement. i do not remember the exact quote right now, but he said __ i think he said that if he could live 10 more years before dying he would rather do that than not fly. >> yes.
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>> i like to hear more about apollo 7. i assume that your 32 kb of memory to not put you on cruise control. do you have technical problems? tell us about the challenges of the mission itself. >> certainly on seven, we had very few technical problems. i think i only remember the alarm going off twice. we cannot believe it. we were prepared for anything that could go wrong. also, in those days, we do not all sleep at the same time. don was a guy who is awake when we're sleeping. i remember one time i was waking up __ i heard alarm go off. don was up there, but he was
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asleep to. it took about __ probably not even 10 seconds to reconfigure things, and it was all over. believe me, that spacecraft __ after apollo 1 being a disaster __ are spacecraft was an amazingly good spacecraft. >> any other questions? okay. wait a minute. >> you were selected as a pilot because of your ability to handle stress. i would assume that most really good fire pilots have a natural ability to handle stress, so that's why you elevated yourself up to an astronaut. can you remark on any training
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programs that would enhance your ability to deal with stress. >> that is another thing where there is a big difference today. it is because of the attitudes of the guys back at that time. we did not allow nasa to turn you into a specimen very often. i still get my annual physical at nasa every year. they are keeping a history of people who have gone into space. i like it, get to go down into my physical. but today, astronauts are a whole lot more specimens in the scientific field than they used to be. part of that is the reaction to what happened in those days with us ancient astronauts.
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i was not as outspoken and approaches that some of them could be. i do know this __ after the apollo program was over, probably during that __ management began to try and find ways to reduce astronaut influence on these things. back in those days, we could go to any meetings. we were involved in all the reviews, and all those things. a lot of it was the people and operations. mission control. they start trying to push the leverage of astronauts down. secondly, nasa is a government agency. as a has grown older, it has become much more bureaucratic, much like any government agency. it is one of the reasons that
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the so_called commercial space industry is able to do these things today. it is because nasa has become very expensive. for example, everything is in one hanger. they do not have to worry about having nine centers around the country. it is a real change. >> that is it for now. let's have a hand for walt cunningham. >> on capitol hill today, members of congress back for a short work week.
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members will consider a bill to require annual evaluations of va mental health. also, a measure that exempts local government for having health coverage for first responders. we will take you live to the house in about 15 minutes. also today, the heritage foundation starts a policy summit. you can watch live coverage on c_span 3. speakers will include texas senator ted cruz and new members of congress. republican proposals to block the present proposed reforms to the immigration bill. before the house gavels in, here is what to expect on capitol hill this week from today's "washington journal." >> ed o'keefe at our table.
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what will happen on the senate floor? >> the senate will file take on __ finally take on the keystone pipeline. i say finally, because it was taken up last year. what we expect to happen among senate majority leadersis there will be several days of debate. remember, this is a truncated week because there is in friday republicans are headed up to hershey, pennsylvania for their annual retreat. you will see the debate beginning to the various amendments to the keystone authorization. it will continue next week.
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over in the house, they're getting started on that contentious issue over funding. house republicans believe to bring a bill to afford that would fund the government through the end of the year with amendments added to it on exactly what parts of the department of homeland security can do, or not do. it will then head over to the senate, we have until february 7 to see if they can sort out a plan. certainly, republicans will try to extract some sort of concession and make it harder for the present to implement what he wants to. >> are all republicans on board with this in the house? >> we will have to see. i think there is a sense of needing to do something to respond to what the president did. but there is a sense amongst
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the republicans that they need to be careful about what they do on immigration. you saw almost immediately last week, after the tax on paris, a big homeland security advocate came to the floor and said, how can we support the playing of funding of dhs when there are threats to the country. i think that had a lot of clout with republicans thinking, there's only so much we can do here. if it fails to pass in the senate, the house will probably come back with something a bit more watered down. that is why you see them starting so early, they have about a month. but with them being out two days this week, the presidents'
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day break, they have to get the ball rolling. >> you see that chair of the intelligence committee, the intelligence chairman on the senate side, the homeland security chair, all saying that there is a real threat of global attacks for the united states. this legislation that you are talking about, the homeland security funding __ could have become a vehicle for addressing what happened in paris? >> it might be too soon. i think you saw them all say yesterday that they are conscious of __ there's a lot of talk of a visa waiver program. the concern is that someone who
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is or is not on the no_fly list, or is or is not being tracked could somehow slipped through the cracks. maybe there from one of these waiver countries, and could cause some harm. the concern is that we need to be addressing that, and be vigilant about who is coming. do you legislate that or tell days agencies to be aware of that? we will see. i think what it does more than anything is remind these republicans that the longer this goes on, the more uncertainty you are creating for agency, do you really want to be doing a ad time when there are these things going on around the world? >> it is week two of the 114th congress. lawmakers are returning to washington to talk about many of these issues. ed o'keefe will take your comments and questions on the
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congressional agenda __ not only for this week, but what is on board for the congress. the phone lines are open. how much help will democrats in the senate give republicans on the keystone pipeline? >> there are 54 senate republicans, it is believed that they are all on board. between republicans and democrats, there are 63. that must mean that there are nine. for now, the magic number is 60. eventually, if they want to override the promised veto from president obama, they have to get to 67. i have been told that if they get to the natural ebbs and flows, they may be able to get to that. there might be enough people who are holding out __ not because they are concerned
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about the environmental effects, or principles __ but that they might have other specific concerns that if things change in my allow them to come along. loyalty that comes to the pipeline could be exported __ democrats would prefer that it not be exported. they will be providing amendments that every single ppart of the pipeline needs to be an american made. they will try to put all sorts of restrictions on it, knowing that the president will stand in the way, and it probably will not be __ at least they think __ enough votes to override the veto. you talk to democrats who are
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very much in support of this and they say, over time, we may be able to find more democrats to get behind us. >> the "washington post" saying today, just be done with this debate. or, will work out a deal. >> that is the type of thing i think we'll see them focus on. is there a way for various restrictions to be added. perhaps some kind of ultimatum that says no more pipeline projects after this one. all sorts of things could be proposed. we will have to wait and see. >> let's get to the calls. >> hi. i cannot figure out why the republicans are pushing through this pipeline so much.
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it could not be for jobs because they turn up the president's job bill. obama came out and said that this oil is not coming to us. i cannot really figure out the point until i read that the coke brothers stand to make $90 million on this pipeline because of all the land that they own in canada. is that true? >> i'm not sure if that is true. i know this has become much bigger than the actual pipeline. this has become much bigger than moving oil out of the tar sands to the gulf of mexico. this has become a political instrument to try and spark a debate about energy and energy
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reform in this country. you will see __ at least what we have been promised by mitch mcconnell __ this is merely the star of a broader energy conversation in the senate. one that i believe both parties will agree has been delayed for years. a real demand for conversation about what exactly this country is doing. the underlying bill very well may be authorizing keystone xl pipeline. but, if democrats and republicans working together had enough things on this legislation would add performs on natural gas, wind, oil. it might be the type of thing that the white house and congress will put together. but to say this is not just about moving oil __ it is about
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constitutional powers, and the president. it is a conversation about job creation. what type of job? a construction job, or permanent job? it is a conversation about oil and exports. it is not just about this pipeline. it is important to remember that if this continues. it is a symbol of what has not been done on energy reform. in a symbol of how the president continues to distance himself from the things that the republicans want to do. >> jim you are next. >> these liberals need to get a grip. we do need it. that's the way i feel about it.
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>> jim coming from the state where the judge ruled __ eexplain the ruling. >> it essentially allows the project to continue. it was a barrier to the state department giving authorization to this. the ruling has come it is evidence that the republicans and democrat support this. >> for the rest of this, you can find online. we'll take you live to the house, about to meet. legislative work is underway at 2:00 eastern. the house will consider two bills this afternoon __ one on the va mental health programs, another on local governments and health coverage of volunteer first responders.
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over in the senate, a vote this afternoon on moving forward with the keystone xl pipeline bill. you can watch that today on c_span 2. [captioning made possible by the national captioning institute, inc., in cooperation with the united stat hf repseives any usethclecaiod coverage of the house proceengs for political or coeral purposes is expressly prohibited by the u.s. house of representatives.] the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's rooms washington, d.c. january 12, 2015. i hereby appoint the honorable dianne black to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed

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