Skip to main content

tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  April 3, 2015 1:00am-3:01am EDT

1:00 am
ss to all of iran's declared facilities indefinitely, but they will also be able to monitor the facilities that produce the centrifuges themselves and the uranium that supports the nuclear program. and they will be able to do that for at least 20 years. this critical step will help to guard against diversion of those materials to any clandestine location or plant. in addition, iran has agreed to allow iaea to investigate any suspicious site or any allegations of covert nuclear activities anywhere. so these are just a few of the key -- and i mean a few -- of the key measures that will make up an extraordinarily comprehensive monitoring and transparency regime when and if it is finally signed and completed over the course of the
1:01 am
next months. now we have been very clear, both publicly and privately, a final agreement will not rely on promises. it will rely on proof. it is important to note that iran, to date, has honored all of the commitments that it made under the joint plan of action that we agreed to in 2013. and i ask you to think about that against the backdrop of those who predicted that it would fail and not get the job done. and in return for iran's future cooperation, we and our international partners will provide relief in phases from the sanctions that have impacted iran's economy. and if we find at any point that iran is not complying with this agreement, the sanctions can snap back into place. so together these parameters outline a reasonable standard that iran can readily meet, and it is the standard that iran has now agreed to meet. throughout history, diplomacy
1:02 am
has been necessary to prevent wars and to define international boundaries, to design institutions, and to develop global norms. simply demanding that iran capitulate makes a nice soundbite, but it's not a policy. it is not a realistic plan. so the true measure of this understanding is not whether it meets all the desires of one side at the expense of the other. the test is whether or not it will leave the world safer or more secure than it would be without this agreement. and there can be no question
1:03 am
that the comprehensive plan that we are moving toward will more than pass that test. this isn't just my assessment. it isn't just the assessment of the united states delegation and our experts. it is the assessment of every one of our p5+1 partners who stood up here a little while ago in front of the flags of their nations. it is the assessment of our negotiating partners -- germany, the uk, china, france, and russia -- and all of our experts who have analyzed every aspect of this issue also join in that assessment. from the beginning, we have negotiated as a team, and we are all agreed that this is the best outcome achievable. no viable alternatives -- not one -- would be nearly as effective at preventing iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon than -- over a period of time than the parameters, providing they get completed and are signed. our political understanding arrived at today opens the door for a long-term resolution to the international community's concerns about iran's nuclear program.
1:04 am
now, we have no illusions about the fact that we still have a ways to travel before we'll arrive at the destination that we seek. we still have many technical details to work out on both sides and still some other issues that we acknowledge still have to be resolved, for example, the duration of the un arms and ballistic missile restrictions on iran and the precise timing of and mechanism for the conversion of the arak reactor and fordow site. and of course, once we're able to finalize a comprehensive deal, the process of implementation then remains in front of us as well. but that's a good challenge to have, frankly. throughout this negotiation, we have made a diligent effort to consult with our allies, our
1:05 am
partners, including israel and the gulf states, and we have vigorously reaffirmed our enduring commitment to their security. no one should mistake that. >> the atlantic council hosted a discussion analyzing the iran nuclear framework deal. john bloomberg will be among the panelists. you can see it live starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern. >> coming up, the u.k. in elections debate between the seven party leaders. in remarks by the peace corps director on increased safety measures for volunteers. later the discussion of the potential emergency response to a biohazardous threat. >> this weekend, the c-span
1:06 am
cities to her has partnered with coxe communications to learn about tulsa, oklahoma. >> he was much more than that, he was born and short 1912. we are very proud to have his work back in oklahoma where we think it belongs. he was an advocate for those who were disenfranchised, for those migrant workers from oklahoma, kansas and texas. who found themselves in california literally starving and he saw this vast difference between those who were the haves and have-nots and became their spokesman through his music. >> woody recorded few songs of his own. we have a listening station that features 46 of his songs in his own voice. that is what makes the recordings that he did make so significant and important. >> ♪ this land is your land ♪
1:07 am
♪ this land is my land ♪ >> watch all of our events from tulsa saturday at noon est and sunday at 2:00 on american history tv. >> next from england, the first and only leader debate of the 2015 general election campaign. during the two our event, david cameron and his competitors each give an opening statement and take questions from the audience. this debate is courtesy of itv. alford, greater manchester -- a city proud of its heritage. and tonight, the setting for a remarkable political debate in the closest general election in a decade. seven party leaders go live face-to-face in the itv lear
1:08 am
ders'debate. >> good evening, i'm julie etchingham. here in the studio tonight are seven party leaders with different visions for the future of our country. over the next two hours, they will debate head-to-head in front of our studio audience here tonight. party leaders from england scotland, and wales are all here this evening. the leaders are natalie bennett of the green party. nick clegg, liberal democrats. nigel farage of the u.k.
1:09 am
independence party. ed miliband, labor. leanne would the party wales. nicola sturgeon of the scottish national party. and david cameron for the conservatives. [applause] our questions are going to focus on some of the big political issues that we are all care about and affect everyday life. you can get analysis online i going to our website. if you want to comment, the twitter tag is #leadersdebate. natalie: you were told austerity and inequality were inevitable. they were not. you all deserve better.
1:10 am
let's put principles and values first. that is why i got into politics. the green party is determined to deliver a fair party that does not make the poor pay for bankers. returning the nhs to its founding principles. no public money going into private coffers. we know we must take real action on climate change. the biggest threat facing us all. other parties trade in fear. fear of immigrants, demonizing people on benefits. to build a decent, humane society, we start with help. vote green. julie: thank you.
1:11 am
>> all six of them support britain's union in the european union. all of them support open-door immigration. is it any wonder the trust is broken down? i represent the united kingdom. and we believe we are good enough to do that. we also believe that open-door immigration has depressed wages made buying houses very difficult. minute tough to get an appointment and not been good enough. let us have a trade deal with europe. make our own laws. let's take back control of our borders, so we can choose the quantity and quality of who comes to britain. by doing that, we will give working people a break. julie: nick clegg.
1:12 am
nick: you are going to have to choose like you did last time who was going to work with who. not everything is perfect. i am not going to pretend that i have not made mistakes. i have, i have learned from them. what you will get from me and a from the liberal democrats is this -- the grit and resilience to finish the job of balancing the books. i will always act responsibly. i will never let anyone else jeopardize your jobs and our economy. i will always act fairly. i will not let anyone impose ideological cuts. i will always serve the whole of our country, not just parts.
1:13 am
julie: nicola sturgeon. >> we will make scotland's voice heard. people feel let down by westminster. my message to people watching in england, we in northern i reland, is one of friendship. as long as scotland remains part of westminster's system, others of like mind will not deliver positive change. many of you want an alternative to austerity, and end to the bedroom tax. and we believe that the resources of our country should be invested in our children, not in nuclear weapons. a vote for me is a vote for scotland to be heard. to make aggressive politics --
1:14 am
progressive politics in westminster. julie: david cameron. prime minister david cameron: for the last five years, we have been working on a long-term plan. that plan is working. there are almost 2 million more people in work. we have invested in nhs, as well as cutting taxes for working people. the plan is working because, last year, we had the fastest-growing economy. tonight, a lot of people will claim a lot of things. these are the same people who claimed that if we follow the plan, the economy would not grow. that public services would be destroyed. they were wrong then, they are
1:15 am
wrong now. sticking with a plan that is working -- or go back to the borrowing and spending that got us in the mess in the first place. britain can do so much better than that. julie: leanne wood. leanne: i'm speaking to everyone in wales home tonight. i understand all too well the difficulties that have been faced by our community in recent years. you tell me that jobs and services have been cut to the bone, and they can be cut no more. we offer an alternative, hope for a decent future. for thriving and successful communities. in parliament, our party can win for wales. but we can only do that with your support. i'm asking you to support the
1:16 am
party of wales, to make our communities in wales as strong as they can be. please support us to make us wales'the party westminster. >> that is not the way it has been. wages have not kept up with bills. the nhs has been going backwards. for five years, young people have been fearing they will have a worse life than their parents. if i'm prime minister, i will raise the minimum wage to eight pounds. to reward hard work again in our country. i will rescue our nhs, hire more doctors and nurses. i will build a future for all of our young people. if you get the grades, you get
1:17 am
an apprenticeship. cutting tuition to 6000 pounds. we will cut the deficit. some people will tell you tonight, this is as good as it gets. britain can do so much better than it has done over the last five years. julie: thank you very much indeed. the format for tonight is simple each will then have one minute to answer before we open things up for free-flowing to break -- free-flowing debate. johnny: as a 17-year-old student of politics, how do we keep our promise without raising taxes or making vast cuts to vital public services? julie: nick clegg. nick: it is all about balance.
1:18 am
that is why i think you should be faced -- you should not be faced with david cameron's plan. 50 billion pounds of cuts, or borrowing too much. ed miliband to borrow more than is necessary. it is a balance. it does mean we need to reduce spending but we need to make the ones with the broadest shoulders to balance the books. do it fairly, also put money into public services. especially the nhs, which does need more money because we have an aging population. the liberal democrat plan is simple, we will cut less than conservatives, and borrow less than labor. >> we have a plan that is working.
1:19 am
we have taken 3 million of the lowest paid people out of tax. what is absolutely crucial here is recognizing that our plan involves balance. we will invest in nhs every year, as we have done every year under parliament. we are going to find savings in one out of every 100 pounds. we need to do that for two more years. the alternative to that plan is actually putting up taxes. if we go back to the waste and spending and debt, all the things that got us here in the first place, we would hurt working people. that is what labor did last time. we must not let it happen again. julie: david cameron, thank you. leanne one. woodleanne: we see no reason to put
1:20 am
deadlines on the deficit. the austerity experiment has failed. we were told the deficit would be eliminated in parliament. we have faced all of these cuts, so much pain, for so little gain. the banks have had a bail out. it is time for the people, it is time for us to invest in job creation to see an end to austerity. julie: nigel. nigel: this coalition was put together to reduce the annual deficit to zero. that is why these guys got together, it is still running at 90 billion sterling. what no one talks about is the national debt. which has been going on for years. the national debt has doubled in five years to 1.5 trillion.
1:21 am
we need to make cuts. we can cut 10 billion pounds from foreign aid. we can save 10 billion by not hang money to brussels every day. we can end then at the projects that will only -- we can end vanity projects. we need to revisit the formula. english and wealth taxpayers are getting a rotten deal. there is a plan and a promise that can be kept. julie: ed miliband. ed: as i said in the opening, we will do it in a fair and better way than has been tried over the last five years. david cameron promise to eliminate the deficit and he failed. we will reverse tax cuts that he gave to millionaires, 43,000 pounds for every billionaire. we will reduce spending.
1:22 am
thirdly, we well do something else. your living standard has fallen. that has been bad for working people, but it has also meant that the government has not had tax revenue coming in. that is why they failed. we will boost the living standard, the third part of our plan to get the deficit down and balance the books. it is a fair way it is a better way. julie: natalie bennett. natalie: we are offering the reversal of austerity. the future of everybody in this room. and what we have been doing, we have been slashing at public services. let us think about what austerity actually means. somewhere near you, there is a
1:23 am
children's center or library that is close. think of the workers. she used to be providing an essential service, paying insurance, she had a modest amount of income to spend. now, that essential services gone. everybody is much poorer. we do need to raise taxes on those who are not paying their share. companies in particular, if they pay their share in the world's sixth richest country. julie: mrs. sturgeon. >> it should be an in its -- it should be a means to an end. austerity is pushing us into poverty. it is holding us back.
1:24 am
when economic policies do that, it needs to change. i believe with the tories and labour, we should have modest spending over the next parliament. it would take slightly longer to eliminate, but the debt would continue to fall each year over the next parliament. crucially, that would mean we have resources to invest in infrastructure and skills to get the economy growing. we can invest in services. lifting people out of poverty that plan must be better than a blind commitment to austerity that doesn't help the damage being done. julie: it is time to open the floor to contest the arguments.
1:25 am
>> i have a question for david cameron. he said he wants to stay the course. remarkably the conservative party says they are not going to ask the richest in society to make a contribution to balancing the books. they want to them pose ideologically driven cuts. when i hear conservatives talk about the choice between incompetence and chaos imagine people's lives. the people who do not know where their college or school is going to close. we need to take a balance approach. you need to ask the richest to make a contribution. it is the only fair way. prime minister david cameron: we we have done this in parliament. part of that plan involves putting more money into nhs.
1:26 am
that includes some of the tax avoiders and invaders. here is the point, we have to understand how we got here. the problem with a choice is ed miliband, who still thinks the government did not spend too mu ch. if you don't understand the mistakes of the past, you cannot provide for the future. >> he doesn't want to talk about the future. david, you just said you are tackling tax avoidance. you have not acted on the tax havens as part of our two-and-a-half billion pounds. we will hire more nurses and doctors. 3000 more midwives. why won't david cameron act on the hedge funds? they fund his party. we need someone to stand up. >> once again, he is wrong.
1:27 am
we want to go after the companies that do not pay taxes in britain. here's what ed miliband is telling you. he does not risk for -- he does not support the big cuts. he wants to cut your pay. going into your monthly payslip and taking your money out because he thinks he can spend it better than you. that would be a grave mistake for our country. . >> nick clegg and david cameron argue, when they have been hand in glove. for the last five years, the opening remarks -- that is not the case. david cameron has missed his own borrowing targets by millions. there are a million additional children living in poverty by
1:28 am
2020. that is not what i want to do. i want to see us invest in the future of our children, not nuclear weapons. this country cannot afford more cuts in the next parliament. we need to see spending rise. >> i'm hearing half the panel say we have no problem with that at all. the other half is saying they have been proven. there is no question that spending is out of control under labor. we have doubled the national debt. our debt repayment is bigger than our annual defense budget . we have a massive problem here. no one is prepared to admit that what we have done is maxing out the credit cards. at some point, we have a dreadful debt repayment. we can cut budgets like foreign
1:29 am
aid. nick: i do not think making the poorest poorer still. a comes back to the simple issue -- how do you balance the books fairly. i do not believe that you do it by letting the there he richest off scott free. i do not think it is fair to do what the party wants to do. that does not help the future generation. >> you have been balancing the books on the backs of the poor. >> let us get real, please. [laughter] julie: thank you, and miliband. thank you. >> you are going to hear a lot
1:30 am
of scaremongering tonight. now, look -- we have a big decision. david cameron wants to double the cuts over the next year. is that really a balanced plan? the in anhs has gone backwards. we will make reductions in spending, in order to balance the budget. >> two issues cover here. one is the debt. over the past 100 years, half of it britain ran a deficit. no one worried about it. why are you borrowing? if you are borrowing to build a new council that we so desperately need, you know you are going to get a return. that asset is there for the future -- for future generations.
1:31 am
the nature of the cuts -- it has been born overwhelmingly by the poor. the bedroom tax, one disabled person. i think the most disabled people in the most horrible people in our society should not be slashed away. we have to be a fair and decent society. julie: david cameron. prime minister david cameron: we will do that in the coming years. but only if we stick to the plan. it is worth remembering what is the truth about cuts? i have a copy of the letter here that labor left in the treasury when we arrived five years ago. it says, i'm sorry, we have run out of money. that is the truth of what happened.
1:32 am
we have to make these decisions because the british economy was on the brink. people were worried whether or not we could pay our debt. the top 20% have paid more than the remaining 80% put together. that is what happens when labor is in power. julie: nigel, let and miliband --let and miliband. ed miliband. >> people at home want to know what we are going to do for them in the next five years. it so happens, let's talk about the future. let's talk about the choices for families in the future. will we have fairer taxes? are we going to have common sense reduction? as david cameron wants to do, we
1:33 am
are going to build more houses for people to buy. we are going to keep on with this reduction in unemployment we will not do it if we go back to the spending. julie: david cameron, thank you. >> how will that cut the deficit? you have failed in this government to eliminate your deficit. it is running at 90 billion sterling. tell johnny who asked the question. prime minister david cameron: we will find one pound of everyone hundred. combined with the extra taxes and avoidance and evasion, we will eliminate the deficit. we will not go into working people's pocket. julie: to leanne wood. leanne: setting arbitrary
1:34 am
deadlines is irresponsible. labor voted for our scarcity. 30 billion pounds worth of cuts. in the counties where i live, we have yet to recover from the recession -- let alone this one. your party ed, represents many different levels. do you tell people in wales who represent the poorest communities? your party is presiding over them. ed: no i don't, leanne. let me tell you the differences. david refused to have a tax instead he keeps the bedroom tax. i will also have a banker's bill tax. i will make fair choices, he was to go much further on
1:35 am
spending cuts. that will mean that we balance the books, and that will mean a crushing impact on public spending. >> our funding has been disadvantage. since 1978. when your party was in power you did not sorted out. 1.2 billion pounds in wales, if you get into government, will you give 2 billion pounds to wales? nigel: the welsh negotiated a bad deal. it has to be rebalance. frankly, english taxpayers are mad about so much money going over hadrian's wall. there needs to be a rebalancing.
1:36 am
that includes -- >> the scots have paid more tax every single year for the past 34 years. the question to add miliband, -- edward miliband. i take a different view to that. i do not think you can cut your way to deficits. he has missed all of his borrowing targets. we have got experts saying that austerity has held us back. let us have spending increases. allow us to invest in the things that matter. why did you budget 30 billion pounds? >> two weeks ago, we had a vote
1:37 am
against it. i say to you nicola. 6 billion pounds in scotland. >> the only cuts -- julie: nicola sturgeon, you're absolutely right. >> you have two choices. let us think about the state of employment in britain today. one in five workers is on less than a living wage. people are being forced into self-employment, because there is nothing else. 80% are living in poverty. >> you need to make the cuts
1:38 am
because you have to. david cameron made more cuts than was needed. because they wanted to. that is just simply wrong. >> it is also put the burden on the richer people. what i am hearing is where i want to save, what i'm hearing is -- more debt and more taxes. some more debt than others. >> david, you are proposing 12 billion pounds and whereel fare cuts. dave:id: everybody knows that they needed to be properly dealt with.
1:39 am
what is the alternative to make an reductions on welfare? i do not see that happen. >> people on disability benefits across the u.k. will lose 1100 pounds. that is not the economic plan i want. i want a that protects the vulnerable. >> we should reprioritize government spending. we should worry less about propping up foreign regimes. wasting money on foreign aid. which all have agreed to for reason beyond me. these are massive savings we can make. and we could actually -- some of the concerns on social spending, that is not where the cuts come. let us stop giving money away. julie: thank you, nigel. >> we want to increase the aid
1:40 am
because we need a more secure and stable world. that means tackling hunger and disease and human rights. ed: i do think we have seen the choice tonight, julie. i said there will have to be spending reductions. david cameron has an extreme plan that has failed to i am not going to stand on the stage tonight. more cuts have to come. julie: thank you very much, party leaders, on our first question. our next question is on the nhs. and the assemblies in wales and northern ireland. where mps legislate on health matters in england. our question comes from
1:41 am
this man. >> you can understand im strongly passionate about it. my question is this, how will your party in sure long-term nhs funding? >> i have had so many scrapes in my life, i have needed. when it comes to emergency care, it probably is the best in the world. this whole question of how we found the health service with a rapidly aging population, is a huge question. we have decided the best way to do it is to run it efficiently run it as a public service -- free at the point of service. but to recognize there has been a 48% growth.
1:42 am
since 1997. labor attempted to privatize the service. that did not work. i put an extra 3 billion pounds in from the eu contributions. and i stopped the attacks on hospital party judges. >> this is really an important question. the nhs is the most precious public service we have got. i was health secretary for five years. in scotland, we will protect the nhs. we believe the nhs should always be run as a public service not a private service. we oppose it in principle. because it poses a risk to scotland's budget. that is why in the house of commons, i will vote against it.
1:43 am
it is one of the reasons we want to build alliances. the best thing we can do at the nhs is to end austerity. you hear other parties talking about decreasing and funding. if they tried to do that, they will have to cut even deeper every year. anyone who says they are cutting welfare and that it is good, that is wrong. let us invest, without making deeper cuts. julie: natalie bennett. natealie: it is a huge issue now. in 2010, we were well aware of the huge cost area of the increasing privatization. what we are seeing with the health and social care act what we say the green party is very simple. the government should have no
1:44 am
place in health care. we are not happy with 5% of money. we want naught percent. what we need to do is take the whole market mechanism out of the nhs. in 2010, it was costing us 10 billion pounds a year. we need to put more money in, and the green party will do that. free dental. we need to look at the structures and say no private parties. nigel: we all love the nhs. it needs heartsard cash. it these 8 billion pounds by the end of next parliament.
1:45 am
the liberal democrats have a plan. unlike the conservatives, who asked the richest to pay a little more. unlike labor we would actually get the job done of balancing the books. and then we can invest in the nhs. that is the way to balance the books and invest. and means 8 billion pounds more here and more in scotland and 450 more in wales. and i challenged the leaders here, if you love the nhs so much, put the money where your heart is. julie: thank you. nicola: the nhs is probably one of the most important contributions of our moderate. it was founded by people contributing together, to fund the help they needed collectively. the nhs is precious and it must
1:46 am
be defended against privatization. it faces two threats. one from austerity and cuts. and another from centralization. we want to recruit and attract an additional 1000 doctors to bring us to the same level as the rest of the united kingdom. we have fewer doctors than the vast majority of countries in the european union. the nhs needs to be funded through general taxation. edward miliband: like so many people, i'm deeply concerned. we see people waiting. we have to turn it around. where specifically is the money coming from? i will tell you.
1:47 am
we are going to have a mansion tax on the most expensive homes above 2 million pounds. we are going to get money from the hedge funds avoiding taxes. we are going to get 2.5 million pounds from tobacco. that will hire 20,000 more nurses, and more doctors and midwives. taking on the biggest challenge which is an aging population. if they cannot get to their general practitioner. julie: david cameron. david: you're absolutely right this is the most important national institution of public service we have. i will never forget the dad of a disabled child, what i was worried about his health -- i
1:48 am
got incredible care. we have been talking about difficult decisions to turn the economy around. the decision we made was to go on funding the nhs, putting in more money every year. that meant we trained 7000 more nurses. 9000 more doctors, and we added 20,000 bureaucrats because i want the money spend on -- money spent on care. i want to see the nhs to move to a stronger seven-day operation. all the way through the week. 1.i want to end on. there is only one group of politicians in the u.k. who cut the nhs that was the labor party in wales. when you hear edward miliband, think about that. juile: i'm going to turn to nigel to open the debate.
1:49 am
nigel: health tourism. leeanne make a point. a lot of people are coming in and using the service that are not residents. that is estimating the cost to be 2 million pounds a year. what the panel agreed that it needs to be a sensible thing that if like every other country, we send foreign workers -- julie: natalie bennett is shaking her head. natalie: what nigel is siding, numbers do not reflect reality. people come here to work. or they seek asylum as refugees. we have had a really dangerous damaging debate about immigration fueled by the others. we need to look at the fact that
1:50 am
our nhs is huge independent on foreign-born workers. julie: thank you very much, indeed, natalie bennett. edward miliband? ed: i really do not believe that that is the root of all the problems for the national health service. david cameron said he protected the nhs. i ask you at home to decide if this is what protection looks like. one million people waited for more than five hours. we have ambulances missing their accounts. and to add to that, we had a tent erected in a car park to treat people in our united kingdom. i do not believe that is protection. julie: david cameron.
1:51 am
david: what we are seeing with cancer is 460,000 more per year getting seen for cancer than used to happen. our survival rate for cancer used to be some of the worst in europe. now we are some of the best. a strong nhs needs a strong economy. if we go back to labor plans for taxes, debt, and spending that will affect the nhs. when i said we would fund the nhs more every year, the labor view was that was irresponsible. labor cut the nhs in wales where the outcomes were worse. julie: just for a moment, nick clegg. nick: as we all know, we have an aging population.
1:52 am
but, it is a simple question -- who has the plan to put the billion pounds of additional money into the nhs? that is what all of us standing here has been told to required. they actually reduce the money compared to what we've done south of the border. you will only get it if you ask the wealthy to pay an additional contribution. mental health is the poor cousin of physical health. more we can do, that will put the nhs in good shape for the future. julie: nicola sturgeon. niocola: it will go up by 400 million pounds next year. i actually think the impression of our health service -- we got
1:53 am
new technologies. how do we deal with that? as of yesterday in scotland, health and social case services are integrating. yes, we have got to invest. clegg's figure is an england-only figure. if you follow the lan i am putting forward, the most fiscally responsible one, we can invest more in health services without cutting welfare. >> health has been used as a political football in order to try and score points off of each other ahead of the general election. the people that suffer most when that happened are the patients and the staff in wales. my view in england and in wales is that those problems are exacerbated by cuts to social services.
1:54 am
they are also exacerbated by cuts to privatization. labor party begun the cuts. they intraoduce foundation hospitals, as well. my view is the private sector has no role. nigel: my two sons were born in a public health hospital. is about to go much further. but i do want to come back to david cameron. he said he has protected the nhs, that he kept his word. david, you made a whole series of promises last election. you did not listen to the staff. you said no going back to the days when you wait hours on end. that is exactly what happened. i do not think they would take you seriously.
1:55 am
prime minister david cameron: let me tell edward miliband what we did. we put 9000 doctors, 7000 nurses and. presumably, he would like to re-hire the bureaucrats. let me answer terry very directly about things we can really do to make a difference with the nhs. dementia is a silent crisis in our country. we are raising the diagnosis rate. we need to keep doing that. this point about 87-day operation, thiey carryout scans and treatments as much as on saturday and sunday as they do monday through friday. we can improve nhs if we go after things like dementia and public health, like some of the big challenges the put so much pressure on nhs.
1:56 am
>> since you are talking numbers, let's look at the 6 billion pounds. what we are doing is racing towards the american health care system -- a system that uses twice the percentage of gdp that we use. there is 1.i want to pick up. -- there is one point i want to pick up. julie: thank you, thenick clegg. nick: it is simply not the case. let me give you -- i legislated, to outlaw the sweetheart deals by the labor government. when we took over, five years ago, the total amount of nhs
1:57 am
money --i do not call that privatization. we need the money, and we need to prioritize social care and health care together. we have too many elderly folks in beds. >> my challenge to everyone here was ignored and pushed aside. where is the money coming from? i mentioned health tourism. here is a fact. and i'm sure people will be mortified i dare to talk about it. there are 7000 diagnoses of people who are hiv-positive. 60% of them are not british nationals. you can come to britain from anywhere in the world and get diagnosed with hiv and get the drugs the cost of to 25,000
1:58 am
pounds a year per patient. i know there are some horrible things happening in many parts of the world, but what we need to do is put the national health service there. julie: leanne wood. leanne: this kind of scaremongering is dangerous. a great stigma to people who rl. i think you should be ashamed of yourself. [applause] >> would leanne open it up to more people? the question is, how do we fund the nhs? if up to 2 billion pounds is being lost? >> when someone is diagnosed with the dreadful illness, my instinct is to view them as a human being -- not consider what country they come from.
1:59 am
edward miliband said there should be limits on the privatization of health care. i take a very different view, there should be no privatization. the nhs is far too precious. you legislated 49% of beds to be used for the private sector. my message to people in england and northern ireland,, the the mps and house of commons will be our allies. >> five years ago, we inherited a situation that wasted 250 million pounds. on sweetheart deals with private-sector contractors which did not help a single nhs patient. we outlawed that use of public money for private sector contracts. which are only based on price, rather than quality.
2:00 am
4% under labor was already devoted. it is simply not the case. if you alleged that privacy privatization -- >> there is a bigger issue at home. i start out where is the money coming from? david cameron is putting to double the spending cuts next year. think of what that would mean not just for the nhs but for social care. if you cut social care dramatically, you undermine nhs fundamentally because elderly people do not get help in their home. and the nhs is creaking at the seams. david: edward miliband is scaremongering. and he said he wanted to weaponize the nhs. it is a service for families, not a weapon.
2:01 am
let us be clear about social care. we are starting with 5.3 billion pounds bringing health and social care together so we can unblock those hospital beds. nick was talking about the inheritance we have. there is something else, a culture of cover up from labor. just 60 miles from where he are is the stafford hospital. we all remember what we uncovered. elderly people being left uncared for, some drinking out of water bottles. because the culture had run rampant. we of change that, more doctors in charge and standards of care are going up. >> that situation makes it even worse because you have fewer social workers and are effective. david: what i am doing with the social fun.
2:02 am
i would suggest three things. first, money -- 8 billion pounds. secondly, give mental health the same importance and emphasis in the nhs as has been traditionally given to physical health. third, make sure elderly patients are doesischared with a social care system. julie: edward miliband. ed: you sure vote as a weapon, to fight for the future of national health service. it needs to be rescued from you, david. i have to say. >that is our record, it has gone backwards under you. you have failed the british people, broken the trust. they believed you. it has gone backwards on your watch. they will not trust you again.
2:03 am
prime minister david cameron: that is because we have a strong economy. let's remember the failure of the last labor government. bankrupting the country and left us with impossible decisions. we made the decision to protect the nhs. labor said -- we ignore that. we went ahead and invested in nhs is a balance plan. julie: edward miliband. ed: people at home will have to decide. only working people succeed when britain succeeds. david cameron will tell you he was to congratulate himself and pat himself on the back. you have to judge on your own experiences. it is not safe in his hands. natalie: david cameron raise the
2:04 am
issue of social care. that is important. 2 million people aged over 65 who need social care. it is worth thinking for a second about what social care actually is. you may need help getting out of bed and bathing in the morning. you might need help just living your life, and you are not getting the help you need. that is why the party is calling for free social care for over 65 to everybody who needs it. prime minister cameron: the point about the 5.3 that will help fund the care natalie is talking about, but also, how important it is we have a seven day nhs with gp being open 8:00 in the morning until it :00 -- 8:00 in the evening because areas of the country were that is already happening, some in greater manchester, we are
2:05 am
seeing a lot less pressure on hospitals. all of this has taken the extra resources we put into the nhs, because the long-term economic man is working. >> thank you very much indeed. we have come to the end of the debate of the nhs. thank you very much indeed for all of that. we will take a short break now. when we come back, the issue will be immigration. police do stay with us for that. [applause] >> welcome back. the leaders are debating the big issues of the campaign. later, there will be debate.
2:06 am
in northern island, a you tv debate. time now for our third question. >> if you are elected, how would you address the issue of immigration. >> thank you for your question. i would change labor's approach on immigration. i think people's concerns are real and they need to be dealt with. i want to explain how. if i am elected as prime minister, we would have new rules that if you come to this country, you will not get benefits for the terse two years -- first two years. we'll stop intercutting of wages
2:07 am
and conditions. employers exploiting migrant wages. there have been to pay minimum wage. we have to deal with it. if i'm prime minister, i will. >> thank you. >> it was bankers who called us an economic crisis. we should not allow the rhetoric that blames immigrants. there is a reason why there is a strong anti-immigration feeling
2:08 am
where there is little immigration. both areas have not shared in the well that is being generated. there are gaps, and certain skills that we need, but the debate around immigration has stopped those gaps being filled. we talked about the welsh nhs. this immigration debate has not helped that problem. it has exacerbated it. >> thank you. >> we do need strong and effective controls on immigration. we need to make sure that people don't get away with abusing the system. we need to recognize that i take the view that the answer is investing and public services and enforcing a decent minimum wage.
2:09 am
i think the views of the westminster party have been driven by fear, rather than rational debate. we need to have a balanced debate. eu immigrants a net contributor's to u.k. public financing. the majority of migrants work. those who don't work our students. hundreds of thousands of british citizens -- how would we feel if they were treated in the way that migrants are here. let's have a debate. let's make sure it is a decent and sibilance -- civilized debate. >> thank you. david cameron. >> what we need in our country is to recognize that people who come here work hard and contribute to our communities. they help make this a great country. we do need immigration that is
2:10 am
controlled and fair. i want to see it come down. we want to reduce immigration from outside the eu. inside the eu, because we created more jobs than the rest of the european union put together. immigration has been high. we need to bring under control. here are the proposals i will put in place. first, if you're coming from the european union, you won't get unemployment benefits. if you have been here for six months and don't have a job, you have to go home. third, if you come here, you have to work for four years paying into the system before you get something out of the system. if you leave your family at home, you won't be able to send child benefit back to your family at home. those are fair changes that i can deliver. >> thank you. >> i told you that they were all the same. they all agreed. as members of the eu, what can we do to control immigration. nothing.
2:11 am
nothing. the prime minister talks about benefits. this is not about benefits to this is about numbers. we have a total open-door to former communist countries and the eurozone, where people are suffering badly. i don't blame a single margaret who comes to britain wanting to better their lives. it has led to such a crisis in housing. we have to build one house every seven minutes just to cope with current levels of immigration. we need to change our relationship with europe to one of trade and friendship. we need to take back control of our borders and put into place and destroy in style system. 77% of british people want something done. >> thank you. >> i will never spread fear about immigration because i think there is bad and good immigration. in a bad immigration, that needs to be stopped. that is why i have introduced
2:12 am
new checks at the borders to bear down on immigration increased the penalties on employers who exploit people from elsewhere. they have to learn english if they want to seek benefits. there is also good immigration. we should remain a decent, journalist hearted open hearted , nation who welcome people who play by the rules, pay taxes help in the nhs. if we turn everyone away, the nhs will collapse overnight. my approach to immigration could be summarize simply as this. i want britain to be opened for business but not open to abuse. >> thank you. >> in terms of european immigration, we celebrate the free movement of people in the eu. many britons have been able to take advantage of that. that is a real plus. if we think about non-eu immigration, what we need is a
2:13 am
controlled but fair and humane system. that is not what we have now. take one example. the fact that a quarter of appeals, are often victims of torture in their own country. these people eventually say, yes you are a refugee after all. when people talk to me up at immigration, they say they are concerned about three things -- low wages, crowded schools and hospitals, and housing problems. all of those are important critical issues we need to deal with, but they're not caused by immigration. they are caused by failures of government policy. >> thank you. i will turn to david cameron now. let's pick up on natalie bennett's point that immigration should be celebrated. prime minister cameron: we do have benefits from immigration as i said in my opening statements. but i think the choice boils down to this -- nigel is saying there is nothing you can do
2:14 am
inside the european union so give up and leave. edward seems to say he does not want to renegotiate anything. so just give up altogether. i say renegotiate, get the changes we need, and put those in a referendum to the british people by the end of 2017. i have sat around that table in europe and negotiated for britain. you can get things done. i have set out with i want to get done so we can sort out this immigration issue once and for all. >> mrs. merkel, who is the real boss in europe, has made it perfectly clear we can negotiate a lot of things but you cannot renegotiate the free movement of people within the european union. that is backed up by the commission president and the president of the european council. do you accept or not that in your renegotiation, free movement is not up for discussion? prime minister cameron: i don't accept that you give up before you have begun. people said it was impossible, we cut the european budget.
2:15 am
i said let's get out of these ballot funds where british taxpayer money was being put in the countries like greece. people said you will never do that. instead of giving up, let's negotiate. the problem with nigel is, you are a backdoor to a labor government which would give us open-door immigration. mr. milliband: i'm wondering what world you live in. [laughter] you talk about your negotiating skill in europe. he made a big stand against the president of the european commission. you lost 26-2 because you have no allies. david cameron has marginalized us in europe. he failed on promises and he will make promises again. i don't think our places out of the european union. i think that would be a disaster for jobs, for families and
2:16 am
businesses. let's change europe so that it works better for us, including immigration. mr. clegg: as far as immigration and the eu, i would say, it should never be the same as the freedom to claim. the freedom to claim benefits on the first day you arrive. we need that is something we to split those two off. that is something we have done. it is a two way street. there are almost as many britons living elsewhere then there are europeans working here. if you want to make sure our own youngsters get the jobs that other people from europe get we , have to train them. one of the things i am most proud of over the last five years as we have 2 million people starting apprenticeships.
2:17 am
over half of those are women. we need to train our own youngsters so did they get the jobs they apply for at home. prime minister cameron: there are three sides to this coin. you have to have an education system that turns out young people that can do the jobs are economy is creating. you have to have a welfare system the make sure that work always pays. it is not simply about what happens in europe. if i think what we inherited. we inherited bogus colleges and the out these is like factories, people who could claim benefits on arrival. we have stopped that. we have people appealing against decisions made here. we now said you have to go home and appeal from home. there are changes you can make. ms. wood: diversity is one of our great strengths, and i can see that in this audience. decisions on immigration should
2:18 am
be driven by what is good for the economy. the problem we have is that it is leading to some long -- wrong decisions. when david came to office, he abolished the study works these -- these of. that is making it more difficult for them to attract international students. it means we deprive ourselves of the economic contribution of young foreign students that we have helped to educate here. it makes no sense. last point i would make to david that is if changes need to be made in the european union, than the best thing to do is to build alliances to make those changes, not at like a petulant schoolchild threatening to leave if you don't get your way. it is better to try to work together for that change. ms. sturgeon: all of this is all about pulling out of the eu. i recognize there are many problems with the eu, but we
2:19 am
benefit from being a member. if there is a referendum on the future of britain in the eu, then the vote should be taken separately in each of the four countries so that if we are to pull out, it only happens when all four countries agree so you don't just have the biggest nation pulling everyone else out. ms. bennett: i would partly agree that we need to talk about the nature of the debate. i disagree that this is about economics. it is a debate about human lives. if we look at one particular aspect of our immigration policy now. you have a non-eu partner, you have to be earning more than 18,600 pounds a year. your spouse or partner salary cannot be counted. a judge describe this as unfair and unreasonable. 19,000 britons cannot live in their own country because of
2:20 am
that rule. syrian refugees -- the u.n. has asked us clearly to take our share of the most vulnerable syrian refugees. you said you are not doing that, we're taking our own program. last figure i saw is that we have taken syrian refugees. 143 i say, we should be taking our fair share of those most vulnerable syrian refugees. nigel: we should take some refugees from syria. i understand that. we forgotten the question here. what can we do to control immigration? nothing. nobody else here would actually admit that. can we get some sense of history on this? if you go back to the 1990's, from 1990-1998, net migration was about 40,000 a year. in the lower.
2:21 am
1980's,in the slightly higher. 1950's,since world war ii we , have operated at about 30,000 a year. it is now net 300,000 people a year. it is 10 times anything this country has had to live with since 1945. what it has meant is that for ordinary people, a minimum wage or not very high salaries, there -- there wages have been compressed. the ordinary people of britain who have paid a high price for the corporate employers -- prime -- mr. clegg: we are raising the minimum wage. i am married to a foreigner -- let's be openhearted. >> should we control it?
2:22 am
that is the question. >> stop that immigration but don't paint everyone with the same brush. >> how do you control immigration as an eu member? be honest people. we cannot. tell them the truth. mr. clegg: the freedom to move around should not be the same as the freedom to claim. >> it is about the mood in -- movement of people. >> you seem to imply anyone who is foreign who comes to this country is a menace. >> we must remain spirited. >> you won't admit the truth. there is nothing we can do. mr. milliband: david cameron said earlier that work pays in our country. rubbish. work doesn't pay in our country. there are so many people -- millions of people -- they cannot feed their family, make ends meet at the and of the month. if work is insecure, doesn't pay properly, you don't get the security that working people
2:23 am
need. i say we should deal with those. it is a crucial part of this immigration debate. you have to create security for the working families of britain and that is what i will do. prime minister cameron: we have created 2 million jobs. when he was in the cabinet half , a million people lost their jobs. nigel, you want to leave the eu. it's a very clear position. the only way that can happen is by having a referendum. i say stay and fight, get a better deal but hold the referendum. the irony is that if people vote for him, they end up with miliband and get no referendum. host: thank you, david cameron.
2:24 am
let's hear the point on syria. thank you. prime minister cameron: the most important thing we can do in syria is maintain the fact that we are the second-largest bilateral aid donor helping helping people in refugee camps to be house, fed, and clothed. there are 6 million people that are in danger of being refugees. we cannot take all of those people. it make sense to use our aid budget to help them in the region. >> thank you. on that issue leaving europe to control immigration. ms. sturgeon: david cameron is taking us dangerously close to the exit door. i would like to issue a challenge tonight. they have spent a lot of time in scotland talking about the u.k.
2:25 am
family of nations. will they give a commitment if there is a referendum, no one part of that family of nations will be taken out of europe against its will. will they give a commitment that the votes will be counted in each of the four nations? mr. milliband: my priority is not to have a referendum. let me explain why. my priority is to tackle the cost of living crisis and build a future for our young people. the british people have a decision to make tonight. david cameron will spend the next two years deciding to exit the european union one he does , not want to do so. i say, there is better priorities for our country. mr. hawthorne: in 2012, david cameron was opposed to britain having an eu referendum saying , it was not international interest. the people out there that want a
2:26 am
referendum, is to get new mps into westminster. mr. clegg: nigel seems to think every problem can be sold on a referendum to europe. europe is not perfect. but it is the world's largest marketplace. 500 million shoppers who buy our goods and services. if you do what he wants to yank , ourselves out of the family that makes up the european union, unemployment will go up and i would never endorse an approach which would make our country poor and make people go out of work. i think it is deeply responsible. ms. bennett: you have to be in your late 50's to have had a chance to vote on europe. the green party does support a referendum on your but we would , be campaigning strongly to stay in europe. we believe that europe -- there are certain decisions that should be made at that level like protecting our environmental standards, workers
2:27 am
rights, those kinds of decisions. we need to set wide standards for them. also, what we need to do is have a different kind of europe that is much less centralized, much better for the local communities and local decision-making. ms. wood: i think that the rhetoric on immigration has not helped the economic situation . there are gaps in the welsh economy that need filling. this debate does not help. the one thing i would agree with nigel on, and i never thought i would say that -- [laughter] ms. [applause] [laughter] wood: you cannot control immigration from inside the eu as a member. you have to accept that people will come here. we have free movement of people. we expect our citizens to be treated well when they moved to
2:28 am
other countries and likewise, we mistreat europeans when they come live with us in our communities. >> these actually work rather well. when we were in with countries like france, germany netherlands, roughly similar living standards, education, health systems, it did not pose any problems. the problem was irresponsibly, we let in 10 former communist countries where the minimum wage is about a 10th of what it is here. if you say to people in poor countries they can move to rich countries, they do. the labor government got it her registry wrong on the figures. we now face the potential of a collapse in the eurozone and we have no control. mr. milliband: i do think there is a wider issue by the opportunity for our young people. nick and and david were talking
2:29 am
about apprenticeships. we bring a lot of people into this country contributing to our country from other countries in skills and i.t. apprenticeships in i.t. are falling in our country. if you want to bring in a skilled worker from outside the european union, you must provide apprenticeships or the next generation. homegrown opportunity is an essential part of immigration. >> you learn the tricks of the trade while you are working on the floor. we have given it new life. it has never been expanded on such a scale. it is something that all future parliaments will continue with, because it is a fantastic way to allow young people to get their first jobs. >> thank you.
2:30 am
thank you all party leaders on that issue. you still have time to register to vote on may 7. you can do so online. our next question is from rebecca. >> i am a 25-year-old graduate with a good job at my generation as a whole has it pretty tough. it cost more than our parents to go to university and high rent makes saving for our own home difficult if not impossible. , we will be less well off than our parents and it feels we are paying for other people's mistakes. if you're elected what will you , do for my generation to help us to optimistic about our future? host: thank you very much. ms. wood: i believe we need to invest in our young people particularly in education. that is the best route out of poverty. you are right when you say young people today are going to fare worse than the older generation.
2:31 am
it is the first time for long while that the generation of today is going to be worse off than the generation he for it. -- before it. we want to provide free tuition fees for students, but because of our strategy we are not in a position to do that, even if we were running the welsh government. we want to keep the tuition fees subsidies that is available to west students, but we would like students to study so that we can invest of public money into welsh universities. we would like some courses to be made available for free. i have talked about the need for doctors in the health service in wales, and we believe we can attract more doctors by providing free tuition for those particular skilled group of workers. mr. milliband: you speak for so many young people i meet who are
2:32 am
asking why they are paying the price of hard times. that is what we have got to turn around. that is what i am going to do if i am your prime minister. we have to guarantee all young people access to a good education. you get a high-quality apprenticeship. it will cut the tuition fees from 9000 pounds to 6000 pounds. i don't want our young people drowning in debt when they leave university. we have to create good jobs for young people. that is why we will ban the explication of a zero hours contract. if you do regular hours, you get a greater contract. classy, we will build 200,000 homes by 2020 and get a fair deal for young people in the private sector. i believe in the promise of britain, the next generation does better than the last. i believe we can restore it. prime minister cameron: thank you for your question. i think it is crucial. the most important thing is to
2:33 am
make sure there are good jobs for people to do. in the last parliament, we had created 2 million new jobs. in the next parliament, we want to kill -- create 2 million more. i think apprenticeships and universities are vital. i want our young people to have the choice of either. we will have three million apprenticeships in the next parliament. we have uncapped university places, so who ever wants a place can go to university. in terms of building homes, i want to build homes people can afford to buy. doc is what our starter homes are all about. not available to foreign buyers or investment funds but there for british people to buy and own. it has helped 88 thousand people. we can make that a reality for people. it seems odd to answer a question from a young person about pensions. but it is important to dignity and security in old age. we have safeguarded the pension.
2:34 am
people should look forward to dignity and security at the end of a hard-working life. >> ms. bennett: rebecca, we believe that education is a public good, therefore it should be paid for by progressive taxation, more progressive than we have now. look at the fact on this. students are leaving university with 44,000 pounds worth of debt. 73% of current figures will never pay that off. they go through 33 years of their life, from their 20's to mid 50's. anytime you earn any sort of money of all, you'll be putting a chunk of your income to a debt you can never pay. we in the green party not only want zero tuition fees, we also want to pay off student loans company debts so people do not have that waste of debt.
2:35 am
we also need changes in housing, which is why we are calling for a minimal wage of 10 pounds an hour by 2020. mr. clegg: i famously infamously put into practice in my party's tuition fees. they were jacked up by labor and there is no money left. but we did the next best thing and think elite there are more people going to university than ever before. if i couldn't do that, i hope some fair-minded folk will acknowledge the other things i am very proud to do to get more opportunities, to create a stronger economy and a fairer society. we talked about more apprenticeships than ever before. the huge tax cuts, paying no tax on the first 600,000 pounds that you earn.
2:36 am
healthy meals at lunchtime for little children at primary school. these are the things that make a fairer future for future conjunctions. ms. wood: we have also kept access to university free of tuition fees. i grew up in a working-class family. as the politician knows, i have no right to take that entitlement for the next generation. i will do whatever it takes to keep access to universities free. i think it is shameful for any politician who has benefited from that to take it away from others. mps in the house of commons, anywhere, i will always support the principle that your access
2:37 am
to education as a young person should be based entirely on your ability to learn, and never, ever on your ability to pay. [applause] mr. farage: i think there are a group of people in this country who are having a fantastic time. they are the rich. they go to the 7% of schools who are wealthy enough to pay for education. they are dominating politics arts, sports, in a way that i've never seen before. their families are getting richer and richer, and the gap grows with every single year. by abolishing grammar schools, selective education, what we did was put up a ladder on tens of thousands of young men and women every year who would have done better had they gone into a grammar school. we encourage lots of people to
2:38 am
go to university who actually were not academic, to have come out in a debt, and you would have done better with trade and skills. on housing, we have a new house built every seven minutes to cope with immigration. prime minister cameron: let me make a point about schools. under this government, we have a million or more children in good or outstanding schools. we opened up the education system and encourage education providers -- teachers and charities to set up schools. i was at one today, the warrington kings academy. i think these free schools are a good institution. ed miliband's party says no more and is completing shutting down the schools that are already getting going. whether they are free schools-- that is what we need.
2:39 am
mr. miliband: why is the conservative party planning to cut money from schools? that is no way to guarantee fairness. prime minister cameron: 10 billion pounds for new primary school. we sat in the cabinet room together, we took difficult decisions together. i defend all of the decisions i took. mr. clegg: no, i repeatedly when your party wanted to cut spending and i said no. you don't make society ferrite cutting money that goes to nurseries, colleges, and mr. miliband: i would say david cameron is wrong, we do not want a future where we have unqualified teachers. there is a bigger issue. rebekah asked the question about young people going into the world today. you saw david cameron and nick
2:40 am
clegg defend a system which ensures that young people in universities, with 44,000 pounds worth of debt, nor did i. but the difference is that i will do something about it. and nick, you are describing as a broken promise as the next best thing. it was a broken promise, you betrayed the young people of our country. mr. clegg: i get this pious from ed miliband, who said there is no boom and bust and crashed our economy. i apologized and took responsibility for the mistake i made. ed miliband, you apologize for crushing the economy-- say i'm sorry for crushing the british economy.
2:41 am
mr. miliband: the banks were underregulated. let me just put this out -- david, when you are as leader of the opposition, you are thinrregulated. we will not take lecturs from you about the global financial crisis. [applause] the government did not spend enough, do not taxing of. young people suffered the most. host: ed miliband, thank you. natalie bennett. ms. bennett: i think we were talking about education, so perhaps we can go there. particularly the point david cameron raised about free schools.
2:42 am
we have a system with the academies of the former government that were based on competition, that schools compete with each other and fight with each other. the green party does not believe that should be foundation of schooling. we want to bring free school and economy back under local authority control and cooperative. we need a system that is not focused on exams, an exam factory that shows children into exam after exam. they need a education for life a broader education that includes things like first aid cooking, sex and relationship education, personal finance education. we need a much broader education that prepares our young people. ms. wood: there will be more cuts to education. there will be difficult continuing the grant past 2017. if labor wins, they will cut the grant by 2.2% according to the iff, that is one billion pounds
2:43 am
over the course of the next term. the tories will more than double that. it will be difficult under those circumstances. that is why we must end austerity. we too can afford free tuition fees for students in wales. ms. sturgeon: i think we have seen why we need to break the old boys network in westminster. if you listen to ed miliband, or in 1997 tony blair promised no tuition fees and then raised them.
2:44 am
if you want ed, if he does get to be prime minister to keep his promise on tuition fees and other progressive policies that he is now promising, i would hope there are pms in the house of commons keeping him honest. host: there are a lot of issues into this question. was not just about education, it was about housing too. it was possibly about the younger generation paying for other people. mr. clegg: on the housing point, rebecca and others are worried about not getting your feet on the first rung of the property ladder. we have an idea, and is this -- lots of young people cannot afford a mortgage on a property. will be would do is introduce a rent to own scheme, or he will not need a deposit to buy a house, but every time you paid your rent at market rate, you build up a share of ownership in your home.
2:45 am
by renting, you become over time an owner in your home. i think that would be a great way to introduce in the next parliament to give people like rebecca that tangible belief that they can hope to live in a home which they can call their own. mr. farage: i think markets are about demand and supply. if you how to build a house every seven minutes to cope with people coming into britain, you have a problem. an independent government can deal with that. but we need to build lots of houses. the problem is the developers want to build on greenfield sites. it is cheaper for them, it is better for them. and indeed, changes in the planning laws mean it is much easier for them to build on those sites. i think what government needs to do -- i don't always want government to intervene, but i do think your government should supply grants and make decontamination of brownsville
2:46 am
sites so the could be big for developers. we could build 200,000 houses on the sites and solve a big part of the problem. ms. wood: we are taking a range of steps in it shared equity not only to help young people, but those taking their first steps to own a house. it would also protect affordable housing as well, and invest in greater numbers of affordable homes. there are some people, even with the help of shared equity, who will not be able in the short or medium term to buy their own home. we have a duty and an obligation to make sure we are providing good, quality housing to them. that is really important. mr. miliband: i want to talk about some thing important to young people, which is renting in the private sector. it is often incredibly insecure, often substandard accommodation. we are the only party with a plan to get a fair deal in the private renter sector.
2:47 am
3 year tenancy. at the moment, they charge tenant and landlord fees. that is a massive issue for tenants across the country. we have have to stand up to some of these powerful interests and make the country work for young people. host: let's turn to the final element of rebecca's question. if elected, what will you do to help my generation feel optimistic about our future? prime minister cameron: we have had a difficult time recovering from the appalling recession that we have had. britain has still got some great strength. we are creating jobs, we are part of important networks in the world. we have clout in the world. we have nurses in west africa helping to deal with ebola. we have some of the most brave and professional armed services in the world.
2:48 am
and tonight it is a good night to say thank you for all that they do. >> there are people on the street that are in armed services. prime minister cameron: she makes a good point that there are people that come out of our armed services who do have -- host: let us return to the issue about providing optimism for younger generations. natalie bennett. ms. bennett: i think i made in my opening marks, reference to climate change. that, of course is one of the critical issues we have to do with to provide an optimistic future. much broader than that, we have to stop trashing our planet. we think about in britain today, we are using the roses of three planets when we only have one.
2:49 am
-- we're using the trash of three planets when we only have one. the fact is in the last 40 years in my lifetime, the world has lost 50% of its vertebrate wildlife. half of the wild animals are gone. mr. farage: our leaders aren't optimistic. our leaders don't think this country is good enough even to make its own laws. what i want to see is a self-governing united kingdom. a country which has pride, and the young people living in a global economy. let's reengage with a bigger wider world. the best place to start will be the 2.2 billion people that live in the commonwealth and who are our real friends. let's have a government that
2:50 am
looks out for the world. ms. wood: the best place to provide optimism is the best conditions where someone can have a job. create the conditions for employment. supporting small businesses. taking on extra people. change the way the public sector contracts to the private sector to guarantee more jobs to be local jobs. mr. clegg: the only way we will increase optimism is if we wiped the slate clean. i do not want my own kids, i do not want any of my own children to pay the price for this generation's mistakes. if i can leave rebecca or anyone with a figure in mind -- 46 billion pounds, that is what we as a country all spend next year just paying off the interest on
2:51 am
our debts. just imagine the hundreds of thousand of homes we could build for 46 billion pounds. 46 billion pounds is the same as 700 pounds for every man, woman, and children this country. when i hear leaders implying that we shouldn't get rid of our deficit, i say, if you don't do that, it is like saying we will not pay off our credit card bill and get our kids to pay for us. >> none of us said that. mr. miliband: i will be very practical about this. what is important for young people is the quality of jobs. 700,000 in our country on zero-hour contracts. people waiting for a text messages to go into work tomorrow.
2:52 am
david cameron says that he could not live on a zero hours contract, and neither can i. but i'm going to do something about it. it goes to what kind of country we built. ms. sturgeon: they brought it against an amendment to end zero hour contracts. why should people believe what he's saying about zero hour contracts? prime minister cameron: there are about 70 labor employees that employee zero hour contracts. so they do not practice what they preach. [applause] some of business leaders from iconic business brands, big and small, saying that their plan is getting the country on the right track. if we go off that with ed miliband's plan, we put the recovery at risk and jobs at risk. young people have the most important thing of all-- [indiscernible]
2:53 am
mr. miliband: there is a big choice in the elections. he thinks there are big corporations that will to trickle down to everyone else. we have tried the experiment over the last five years, and it has failed. host: thank you very much indeed for your comment on that. a very comprehensive question from rebecca. ladies and gentlemen, we have come to the end of our people -- free-flowing debate. there is been a lot to discuss your in the last two hours. a lot for us all to reflect upon. before we conclude tonight, i would invite each of the leaders to make a final and brief statement on why they think you should vote for their party on may the seventh. ms. wood: you can get the same cuts and priorities, or you can vote for some thing better and more progressive.
2:54 am
i went into this election with a clear message -- none of us can afford more austerity. none of us can afford 30 billion pounds of cuts. none can afford the 100 billion pounds that the tories, labor, and liberals intended to spend on nuclear weapons. their priorities are wrong, but they won't pay the price -- it will be ordinary people that pay the price. we offer an alternative, a clear alternative. a plan for investment. yes, it is fiscally responsible, but it will also allow us to invest in infrastructure to protect our public services, to lift people out of poverty. to people in scotland, i say vote for me for a louder voice. ours will be a voice to help bring about change. mr. clegg: thank you for sitting through this 2-hour political marathon.
2:55 am
i have only one thing to ask of you, and it is this -- when you vote, decide what is right for you and your family. make sure you do what is right for our country, but above all make sure that we do not lurch this way or that. make sure we do not borrow too much or cut on the other. in other words, make sure that when you vote, country stable and strong and fair. and the only way we can do that is by finishing the job, finishing it fairly, balancing the books, doing it fairly, and putting money into our public services. that is the only way we can create a society that i imagine we all want -- a society where we have a stronger economy and a fairer society, where there is opportunity for everyone. mr. miliband: you have heard from seven leaders tonight. do we carry on with a government
2:56 am
that is not on your side? if i'm prime minister, i will make sure that hard work rewards everyone in their country, not those who just get six-figure bonuses. i will take on those prime energy companies ripping you off. and if i'm prime minister, we will balance the books and protect education. there is a big choice in this election. i believe it is letting working people succeed to let britain succeed. let's bring the change that britain needs. ms. wood: i hope the words tonight do not fill you with too much despair. despite what you heard, there is an alternative to the westminster consensus. austerity is not inevitable, it is a choice.
2:57 am
we can have a future where everyone has access to decent public services, where everyone can have a decent standard of living. but not if we keep doing things the way we always have been. for a stronger, more prosperous, greener wales. for a wales that counts. give your vote to the party of wales. for wales to be strong, like scotland, we must be strong. the more strength you give us, the greater influence we will have. let this be the success we know we can be. thank you. ms. bennett: if you want to change, you have to vote for it. i say, vote for what you believe in.
2:58 am
you don't have to go on voting for the lesser of two evils. that is how we ended up with a tired, failed politics that we have now. if you want a fair economy, a public nhs, vote for change, vote green. already in parliament, we are seeing caroline lucas make a huge impact. we need more mps like caroline. with strong green mps, we can deliver a new brand of politics. you can deliver a peaceful revolution. where you are in england, wales, scotland, or northern ireland, if you are thinking about voting green, do it. your vote will count. mr. farage: you see, i want you at the beginning, i said they were all the same. [laughter]
2:59 am
what he saw tonight is the politically correct, oh they are so keen to be popular on the international stage. they do not understand the thoughts and aspirations of all ordinary people in this country. they are detached. most of them have never had a job in their lives. what we represent is patriotism. if you want things to be shaken up and change promptly, you have to put more ukip mps in westminster. we can outshine all expectations on may the seventh. let's do it. prime minister cameron: i have been your prime minister for the last five years. all of that time, i had tried to have one task in mind, which is putting the economy in place and clean up the mess that is put to us.
3:00 am
i want to finish the job that we all started. we have created 2 million jobs let us create a job for everyone that wants and needs one. let us have britain back in the black. let us keep investing in a national health service, and make sure that it is a genuine seven days a week service for your family all day around. what my plan is is basically one word -- security. security for you, for your family, for your country. this is an amazing country, and we are on our way back. there is a fundamental choice in this election -- stick with a team that brought you that plan because it is working and is helping, or put it all at risk by the people that dave is the spending, debt, taxes and waste. i say stick to the planet that is working, let's not go back to square one. let us finish what we started.