please don't leave the room, because immediately following will be a major discussion, a panel discussion about the future of europe, which is probably also very important. thank you very much. secretary matus: thank you, i ill be back. >> also attending this weekend's conference is john mccain. he joined the panel discussion on the future of u.s. transatlantic relations. this is one hour and 45 minutes. [applause] mccain: i sen. mccain: is a great honor to introduce senator mccain, a

panel on the end of the west, question mark, is not one we're used to having here at munich. we talk about concerns the middle east, in russia, ukraine, concerns of europe. we have been there over the past years. this year they are still there, but we are asking ourselves much more fundamentally, are we being the beginning of the end of a western-led order? we know why we are asking the questions now, it is president trump, but it is more structural than that. it has been coming along time, the rising of china, the populism in europe, the brexit, explosions in the middle east. we have to ask ourselves, umber one, can china or anyone else step in? number two, if they can't, will we have an order without a leader and what does that mean? and number three, to the extent that u.s. leadership is taking a big hit, can americans get it

back? to answer those question is no one -- questions is no one better to kick it off and senator john mccain. senator? -- questions is no one better to kick it off and senator john mccain. senator? [applause] sen. mccain: thank you. welcome and thank you for that kind introduction, and trying to follow bono reminds me of the story of the actress zsa zsa gabor's fifth husband, who on her wedding night said i know what i am supposed to do, but i do not know how to make it interesting. [laughter] sen. mccain: so, anyway. not every american understands the absolutely vital role that -- it'sand is honorable honorable chancellor, chancellor into there playing safety of the west. but i want to say thank you. in the four decades i have

repented -- attended this conference, i cannot think of a time when its purpose was more necessary or important. this panel asked us to consider whether the west will survive. in recent years, this question accusations of hyperbole and alarmism. not this year. if there was ever time to treat this question with a deadly seriousness, it is now. half aestion was asked century ago, when the founders of this conference, indeed that its first why they first started coming to munich. they did not assume that the west would survive because they had seen its near annihilation. they saw open markets give way to beggars and the poverty it imposed. they saw world order fall part two clashing race relations and the misery that brought. this all the great powers and

the failure of deterrence and wars that follow. awfulhe ashes of the most calamity in human history was arriving the west. one based not on blood and soil and nationalism, but rather a value, rule of glaucoma commerce, and respect for national sovereignty and -- international commerce, and respect for national serenity and independence. everyone whoen to honors and uphold me values. andunprecedented security prosperity we enjoyed over the past seven decades to not -- did not happen by accident. ourack our values up by power and persevered in their defense. our predecessors did not believe in the end of history.

but that it bends inevitably towards justice. that is up to us. that requires are persistent, painstaking effort, and that is why we come to you munich -- come to munich year after year after year. [applause] would their what generations if they saw our world today. of it would beh all too familiar for them, and they would be alarmed by a. they would be alarmed by an increasing turn away from universal values towards old ties of blood, race, and sectarianism. they would be alarmed by the hardening resentment we see refugees,migrants, and minority groups, especially muslims. they would be alarmed by the growing inability and even unwillingness to separate truth from lies. they would be alarmed, more and

more, of our fellow citizens seem to be flirting with authoritarianism and romanticizing it as our moral equivalent. but what would alarm them the most is the sense that many of our peoples, including my own country, are giving up on the west. they see it as a bad deal, we may be better off without it. a western nations still have the power to maintain our world order, it is unclear whether we have the will. all of us must except our share of blame for this turn at fury. we grew complacent, made mistakes. too much, and it times not enough. we have lost touch with our people and spent too much time trying to response to their hardships. this does not mean losing hope and retreating, but we need to face realities.

profound concern across europe and the world that america is laying down the mantle of global readership -- leadership. i can only speak for myself, but i do not believe that is the message you will your from all of the american leaders who cared enough to travel here to munich this weekend. that is not the message you heard today from secretary of defense jim mattis. that is not the message you would hear from vice president mike pence. that is not the message you would hear from john kelly, and that is certainly not the message you will hear tomorrow from our bipartisan congressional delegation. make no mistake my friends, these are dangerous times, but you should not count america out . [applause] sen. mccain: and we should not

count each other out. we must be prudent, but we cannot wring our hands and wallow in self-doubt. we must appreciate the limits of our power, but we cannot allow ourselves to question the rightness and goodness of the west. we must learn from our mistakes, but not be paralyzed by fear. we must not give up on ourselves and each other. that is the definition of decadence, and that is how world orders really do decline and fail. that is exactly what our adversaries want. this is their goal. no meaningful allies, so they to sow dissent among us and divide us from each other. they know their power and influence are inferior to ours, -- so theyubvert us seek to subvert us, and terrorize us in our cassidy. -- pathogenicity --

in our confidence of our own values. we must take our own side in this fight, be vigilant, persevere, and through it all, must not ever cease to believe in the moral superiority of our stand for, that we truth against falsehood, freedom against tierney, right against injustice, hope against -- tear tyrrany, right against injustice, hope against desolation. that is why we come to munich. year in and year out, to revitalize our common moral purpose, our belief that values are worth fighting for. in the final analysis, the arrival -- survival of the west is not as a material struggle. it is now, and has always been, a moral struggle.

now more than ever, we must not forget this. during one of the darkest days of the early cold war, the great american novelist william fall for -- william faulkner delivered a short speech in stockholm upon receiving the nobel prize for literature. to accept the end of man," falconer said -- fa ulkner said, "i believe that man alone will prevail. not because he has an exhaustible voice, but because he has a soul, as you're incapable of compassion -- a spirit capable of compassion, and endurance. " even now, i refuse to accept the demise of the west, i refuse to accept that our latest triumph

spring from the moments of greatest peril, as they have so many times before. i refuse to accept that our mauer -- values are morally equivalent to those of our adversaries. i'm a proud, unapologetic lever in thewest -- believer west, i believe we must always stand up for it, for if we do not, who will? thank you. [applause] >> so, everyone. it.glad you made

i think we can tell from the a spirited" in defense of the west is something that resonates well with the spirit throatedited and full speech in defense of the west is something that resonates well with the spirit. advertisement was family help us work through these -- a very distinguished panel will help us work through these topics. have several presidents and that of commissions and foreign ministers, and they will give us some quick opening views about the extent to which they believe that the western order is under threat, and the locations of

that.- implications of and and we will have a fairly lively discussion amongst ourselves and the rest of you. at the end, i am bringing the chinese foreign minister here, because how could you include a concluded -- discussion about the future of the west without china? let's start with you. please, sir. >> ok. it is not the first time i have taken part in a discussion where the participants have to confront the question will the west survive? who expect to witness the downfall of the west, i would like to dedicate the words of mark twain. "the reports of my death have

been greatly exaggerated." but this is not about finding clever answers to questions, it is about finding effective solutions and implement them in. what we are really going through , experiencing in the following years, perhaps even months, depends entirely on our actions. i firmly believe that in order to consider the future of the west in terms of combat rather than a downfall -- come back rather than a downfall, there have to be a few conditions. first, we need unity. second, we need responsibility. opinion, the duty four of the future of europeans -- for a good future for europeans, also for the world. always been strongest

when we are united. unity is the backbone of our strength and security. back, itst is to come can only come back unified. if the west is to fall down, it will fall down in parts. as the president of poland, i know very well that the divisions of the west have not caused any [indiscernible] two central europe. but this is for it to be a part of the united western world. the latest district of our unity, as a result of the latest nato summit, resolve must be fully implemented. it is the matter of our defense and deterrence capabilities. only when we are strong, we can enter these bylaws. the basis of our strength is the

transatlantic bond. we must not regretfully put it into question. it is our task to engage with the new u.s. administration in a way that is to preserve the common interests of the euro atlantic community. by common interests, i mean security. we all realize that the consequences of a potential destabilization in europe would be felt on both sides of the atlantic. aboutrmore, when we speak euro atlantic unity, we cannot avoid the discussion of brexit. they have left the you -- the eu, but it is in our best interest to not abandon the european security architecture.

to frame the common defense security policy in a way that would compel british citizens to actively participate. apart from unity, it is a responsive government that has strength,n, as far as the best. i meanas responsiveness, the capability to react to the citizens word, their expectations. nowadays, so many people experience a lack of trust of state institutions and government. because thel elite will to look at the elections with fear rather than hope. practice of democratically elected governments is being put into question.

the west is reactionary in a traditional stance of that word. resemblesical class the court of louis the 16th of france and the aristocracy on the eve of the french revolution. the point of political change can be felt throughout the western world. the political elite should not try to stop this change, because it is inevitable. on the contrary, they should turn their attention toward engaging it, so that the effects of this are instructive -- constructive rather than destructive. i believe this is one of the biggest challenges facing the western political class. if you want the west to come back, we need to tackle this challenge effectively. let's face it. interesting --

interested in saving the western world. we need to be honest with ourselves. the west has enemies. divided, --to be they want us to be divided, they also want the elite to be detached from the people they represent. the is why we must reaffirm cohesion of the western community, but also and perhaps equally importantly, we must be able to respond to the hospital policing and debt -- hostile policing and breaking our unity -- aimed at breaking our unity. we cannot allow ourselves, the western world, to be afraid, as the senator said. we should not fear to use all the strength at our disposal against our enemies, which is what i wish for all of us. thank you. --to president hers and go

the president, you heard to the importance of the unity of the west. at thisrtainly no one panel who has suffered more from the disunity of the west and you. -- then you, and i hope we can talk about the way you think west is going. what is yours? >> thank you. thank you for having me here. i would like to thank you all for the years of many opportunities to have these questions discussed. i would like to think chancellor merkel and the whole leader of the european union for their personal involvement in the process to make europe safer and to bring peace on the soil. let me start with a famous quote from the year 1938.

"i believe it is a feast for our and we thank you for the bottom of our hearts -- from the bottom of our hearts. nice, white get a sleep. " and a quarter he these are the words of neville chamberlain -- and of quote. these are the words of never change -- neville chamberlain at the end of the munich pact. the knot is would not have any territorial claims in europe. wase all know, appeasement the wrong thing to do. one should not believe in the goodwill of someone who is proved themselves have no goodwill. but do we know what was the right thing to do back there?

probably staying in a strong unity. , this is a historic 1938. from an appeal from all of the people that had to die in the following had abecause someone nice, quiet sleep at the wrong time. the appeasement policies in regards to aggressive russia is not the mainstream in the western policies. increasinglyar excessive calls for some degree of appeasement towards russia -- obsessive calls for some degree of appeasement toward russia. to do that would be naive, wrong, and dangerous, not only

for the ukraine but also for the europe alliance and the world. elijah why. -- allow me to explain why. quite hates the ukraine deeply and sincerely. he denies the unique identity of the ukrainian people. he publicly proclaimed ukrainian identity as a part of russia's dominance identity. he's is no place for ukraine -- onsees no place for ukraine the political map of europe. but it would be a mistake to think that the russians appetite s are limited to the ukraine only. let me remind you. one year in november, the

president took part in the ceremony of award winners by the russian geographical association. --re does russian border where the russian -- where do the russian borders and? -- end. the boy gave the right answer, but corrected him and him andputin corrected said russia's borders and nowhere. later he said it was a joke, but it was not a joke. union, beyondn their market, they had already felt this in action. there is only one time and one place that counted this doctrine

down and [indiscernible] and the time is now. the place is ukraine. [applause] >> this is a absolutely distort chance for all of us. above all, this is a historic chance for the munich administration and summit of translating unity, -- transatlantic unity, and i have a lot of confidence after having spoken with the new secretary of state, rex tillerson, who confirmed our unities. and, as senator mccain did as well, our solidarity. this is what we need right now. this is a unique window ,pportunity -- of opportunity

but if the window gets too small in time, opportunity will still be available. my ukraine's only thing is country decided to leave independently, and stand for freedom and democracy. we want freedom, and russia wants to punish us for that. i want to be able to represent here my 45 million nation of european people. on their behalf, let me assure you that we never agreed that someone or somewhere where it undermine [indiscernible] handled decisively by millions of ukrainians who have already proved the ability to fight for their independence. we have no intention to give up, and i ready to defend our

country -- am ready to defend our country. nothing is ukraine without ukraine. any deal with put behind ukraine will only -- putin behind ukraine will only aggravate the situation. supporting ukraine is the only way to stop this aggression and bring us back to respecting international and global ball. -- law. is our commitment to peace and civility a lot greater than we have received in return. this is a great example, because the ukraine was the third -- ukraine was the third biggest nuclear nation in the world. we voluntarily gave up on the third biggest nuclear arsenal, and support in the ukraine is the cheaper conversion insecurity of the free world. the tools are there.

first, it is not encouraging for us for the chancellor to community to keep -- -- satlantic community second, there is nothing more sobering than the result of the west to importing frontlines. sections were our efforts, not liabilities. for our effort, not liabilities. they are a manifestation of our weakness in the rollback. put diplomatic pressure on russia, assaulting the sanction crimea would be encouraged by aggression. why would i have to speak like that you go in the lot -- that? in the last 24 hours, my nation lost three soldiers.

12 were wounded. russian artillery hit the civilian quarter, and one civilian was killed by russian artillery in the last 24 hours. two more were wounded. we have to understand what price we pay now, and third, there is nothing more inspiring than an eu. and inclusive the european project is much more resilient than the kremlin imagines. the values enshrined in the heart of this project, exceeded will notforbearers, intimidate europeans. theine has the belief that stronger it is, the stronger europe. the thing i can say now is that

we are the most optimistic nation on the european continent, and i am proud to be the leader of such optimistic nation under present conditions. let's not repeat dramatically stakes of the past -- o-matic ofsed -- dramatic mistakes the past, but instead consolidate our unities and in solidarity, and this is how we can gain peace in our time and go home together at night, for a nice, quiet sleep. thank you. [applause] >> let's head to boris johnson. to an extent, the ukrainians are themost optimistic of european project, but the bar has gotten lower. >> let me say something.

say, what a pleasure it is to be here listening to you, and i think we are all very moved by the tragedy that is unfolding elsewhere in your country. it goes without saying, but it is worth saying anyways, the united kingdom is 100% behind you in vindicating the rights of the ukrainian people and the independence of the sovereign ukraine. that is very important to us. [applause] >> and i know that is for everybody else here, but the question that has been asked is akin two can -- questions you get in tabloid newspapers that demand splash headlines. a negative response is obviously and [indiscernible]

i'm trying to think of another ludicrous conspiracy. where the moon landings fake? negativehere we get overwhelming information, and these are my questions to which this is the end of the west? it is emphatically not the end of the west, we are not wishing the -- ay to disparage i thought it was a fantastic and it is a character who comes to conferences such as potentially ais more chaotic world, indeed not for terminal device. i want to point out, ladies and gentlemen, that is almost exactly 100 years ago since oswald's finger wrote a book

called the decline of the west. that when, of course, magnificently, spectacularly, a prophetic work, we have seen the unadulterated triumph of what you might call western values, technology, culture, and indeed western economic thinking, with one billion people. it's true, one billion people lifted out of poverty, justice, and with the turn of the global population living in poverty to having declined to fewer than 37% in 1990, and even more staggering is for the human race, -- accomplishment for the human race when you consider we have added 1.8 million people to the planet in that time. it is true, that population boom grows particularly in africa and

the middle east. poverty,driving migration, sources of conflict, extremismlization and that threatens us all. but the answer to those phenomena is not to throw up our hands and declare that it is all over for the west. obviously -- the answers to deal with the problem and the causes of those problems. bad government, corruption, as bono rightly said, i think what the great panaceas is the education of women, and some countries i have been in, asia, 66, 70% -- 66%, 70% of literacy and women. downhen you to double

other things that unite us, like our defenses. john, it was great to hear earlier when jim mattis had to and thet nato commitment of the new american administration to nato, and this is not the moment for us to turn our backs on globalization. let's not let globalization become a bad word. let's defend it, exalted -- exalt it, and defend global free trade, and all of you military chaps and women, honestly. all of you think that global free trade or free trade is not the province of the military. i wonder -- yes. do you know what article five of nato says? june what article two of the washington treaty says? does anyone know that? is anyone paying attention in the back?

does anybody know? no, it does not say to spend money. says -- a very good idea. it says nato members will seek to eliminate conflict in their ,nternational economic policies and will encourage economic collaboration between any and .ll troops -- groups isn't that fantastic? did you not know that? in breakingrefront down economic barriers, and who needs the eu when you have nato? [laughter] say all thatt, -- of course because it is free trade. our commonick up for defense. sick up for nato. stick up for global free trade, and stick up for our values,

western values. we're not geographically located somethingt, but it is we need to stick up for, the rules based on this system, and keep our promises when we make promises. when people cross redlines and use chemical weapons against population, they should face price. we should exact that price, and if one power at its territories annexes the- territories of another, then we int remain absolutely robust imposing the sanctions demanded by that kind of aggression. end, it is the certainty and stability that the rules based on international order for the last 70 years have created unparalleled -- it has been the foundation, the bedrock, for

unparalleled economic growth. it is the rule of law that guarantees fairness between andle and companies countries. in the end, it is the rule of law that is the absolute foundation of freedom. prosperity, and i go on to the three big questions i am told are floating around this conference of the core doors -- corridors.-- eu? brexit mean the end of emphatically not. we are not leaving europe, and we will remain supportive of our friends and partners in the eu. -- somethingsage

winston churchill says. we will be outside the church, but be there like a flying buttress. they understood it. the second question is are we seeing the obsolescence of might and --o, and nato? my answer is absolutely not. we are seeing the beginning of reform and change in nato, and recognition. other countries need to step up to the plate and spend their gdp on defense as we do. my final question, are we seeing the end of globalization in the end of the west? emphatically not. insanely badad -- to erect these barriers. how foolish would we be? and i want you to know that there is at least one country represented here today that will shortly, as a result of the decision we make, will be free to do free-trade deals once

again with any and all around the room, and you know where to find us. the -- where will we be? we will be in europe, geographically, culturally, spiritually, and everything else. >> thank you. [applause] >> you are not yet liberated, but in years you will be liberated. the question of the flying buttress outside the european cathedral -- are they pointed at you or to the other direction? prime minister, please. as i go back to the future to lead to a new invest of incorporated with european union. but wes messy to me, have an opportunity to find a ary good relationship that is very deep interest of my country.

first off, i am very energized by john mccain. we come from difficult -- different sides of the political arena, but he is fantastic. i visited him in january, and i think now we need a very strong transatlantic relationship, now more than other. -- ever. this time of clarity gives a boost to proper, more intelligent and direct it european -- directed european cooperation. think there is terrorism migration, and inclusive globalization. second, i think we are in a dangerous time. i think we have to be strongly in defense of our open societies in a time of writing authoritarianism. this is not only outside of our west, but inside our west. i see developments, movement

where people are looking for more authoritarian answers within our european union -- european and transatlantic community. second, we have to do a lot of balance, i will come back to that the second. defensewe have to be in of globalization, but we have to change what we are doing right now. there are no doubts about it, if we continue to go on with globalization as we are in now, it ultimately leads to protectionism and xenophobia, economys to a political of the geopolitical elite. what we see this moment in america, in the u.k., is the rest of hours -- risk of our social contract. economy?en our distinctiveas a

plow or -- platform of trade and intercultural of them. the trade is always being determined by a social contract. if people have the sense that their governments and the distrust and their politics, would we find in the west , isher you like it or not going to answer to this. globalization will be identified with the wrong west, in my view. but i think the president of poland mentioned correctly, this so-called liberal order -- i do not know if it is for the west, pipeen a movement from a -- by order to a multi-order, but you can do two things. one, talk to the patient and say you are dying anyway.

you have heard the rumors, the lack of writing authoritarianism. the movement -- rising authoritarianism. i deeply convinced we have movements in our country that want to destroy the west some people -- west. business that i am very much to get -- against. what do you do two of -- due to a very old patient? change your behavior, your values, but at the same time innovate, realize you have to change and i think the has been put forward to us, but we have to have the trust and political will to engage in it. one of the reasons i got into politics, one of the reasons is to make sure our multinational corporations are not only for the political elite, but also for the citizens in terms of employment insecurity.

and, when it comes to conflict, we have a system, yes, but we need to make sure three things. one, they are seeing it in a legitimate way. that the west is not the only one who is baked, so when it comes to reforming the security council or forming international institutions, we have to change some of it. if they are difficult, it will not be effective. the second is the effectiveness. in some areas, this is one of the criticisms that i understand for many citizens in your country, boris. has, inpean union certain areas, gone overboard in rules and regulations, but it does not mean europe is bad. we need a smaller europe that deals with the issues of [indiscernible] issue, except for legitimacy, is the issue of our we fit for purpose?

there, we have to look more at the concerns of our citizens, or we get a backlash in our society that will induce the space for international corporations, and i think we know the areas. we know the areas around terrorism, security, intelligence corporations, conflict management, migration, in which we need to perceive nato policy, something we incorporate with other continents. i could go on, lance the question is this. my answer is this. the west has to be defined differently than it was in 1944 and 1945. actually, we have a lot to defend, as many of our values have become universal. thirdly, we are giving up a lot of profit. fourthly, there is a big risk to disorder, i have seen that, and we can only do two things, defend or change.

if we do not do the same and simultaneously, things are desolate. >> thank you, thank you very much. [applause] >> i think everybody on the boris, if wewith asked to this in the tablet fashion, that the west is not over. but i also believe that everyone in different degrees recognizes the nature of the threat, challenges the coordination and unity, erosion around the edges. there is one thing we have not yet discussed directly, and i will put that first you senator mccain. -- two senator mccain. of all the things i heard in her speech, i cannot hear you mentioned president trump directly, and i'm sure that was intentional. this am sure the people in audience, he clearly represents a very significant departure to the level of personal commitment and embodiment of personal commitment and embodiment a lot of the bold we are all talking

about here today. we are all talking about here today. what do you say to us, after secretary matus gets up -- verys gets up and is committed to nato, but it is very disconnected from what we would hear from president trump in his first 20 days. how would you address that? >> i momentarily adjourn. [laughter] that, if i had been asked to pick the team on national security around president trump, i could not have picked a better team. i think that is very important. >> prefinished -- pre-flynn or -flynn?

>> i think that shows that this administration has a lot of work you, but i could not be more satisfied with general matus -- general james mattis or general keddie -- kelly. there are those on his tea that we can have great confidence with, and most importantly on national security. president, i think makes occasions,on other that contradict himself. some of us learn to watch with the president does as opposed to what he says. actions -- we need border security, to try and stop s of illegal drugs eating away at our society coming

across our southern border, we need to build our military. i am telling you now, the last eight years have of this rated our -- eviscerated our military and its capability. two thirds of our f-18 aircrafts are not flying. shouldthe way, congress the blame with this idiotic sequestration. we promised rebuild our military, and we need it. our job -- my job is to work areas thatesident on we agree. on areas we disagree, i will be a up and occasionally subject of a tweet in the middle of the night. [laughter] >> but i do think it is also to point out, as one final note, our constitution says that our has three coequal

branches, the judicial, legislative, and executive, and i can assure you that the legislative branch and obviously , from what we just saw on the , that both theer legislative and judicial branches will be exercising our constitutional responsibilities. presidenth with the does, what america does, not what they say. we have seen a lot from the united states, not just from the president but in previous ministrations -- administration's ongoing like refugees, coordination with the europeans, like the middle east. how comfortable you feel with both that formulation as well as where we are heading as the conflict about? >> >> definitely the sense we have in my country is one of on clarity and security.

there is a style of leadership. there is a democratically elected president. you see a lot of anticipation in what direction that policy should go. , i am notclear judging in and that is democratically elected. i play ball. i do not only values that we onlyas a nation -- to that on the values that we have is nation. it is of great interest that we work together. i was impressed by the meetings we had today in the context of the g20. we were talking about the end of the west. it was interesting in that context -- you don't have only the west, it is china, enormous countries, and the russian federation. all of these big differences on anticipation of what happened -- it's interesting there is still the surge to find a compromise.

no one wants to fight to the wants traits to go to the last protection measure. there is still a capacity toward together. i notice a good composition we had with secretary of state tillerson. he mentions the importance of the mingsk agreement. we were talking that the united forons sponsored discussion the need. i find these two important points. on the middle east peace process, it is not for us to anticipate and wait. a shouldn't just wait and see nd comment. we are politicians. we these our concerns on -- base our concerns on hope.

a democratic, election, different styles of leadership. parliamentties in my that are close to the views of president trump in others. this is the way we have to deal with this, with confidence, realizing that the world was much more insecure. investing in that is part of this conference. >> one can say that the west is fine, and globalization of course persists. and yet to the extent that you have reactions from countries around the world that feel differently, you have to address it. you have seen in asia, countries that seem to be less aligned with the united states then they were a few years ago. qc in europe a -- you see in your a slipping away of

free-market principles. >> where have you seen that? withm thinking in turkey candidate member, less like the europe vision of today. is -- you are standing here is one of the most articulate opponents of western globalization. what do you say to the countries that are seeing what is happening, both within the eu and outside of it and saying, we are worried. we think we should be hedging toward alternative models. for some, it might be the russians. for some, it might be looking after themselves and not caring about global britain. >> i think they are being way too pessimistic. i don't think you and i disagree about this. the world has been going through a difficult time. again,conflict is rising

but it is rising i'm afraid largely because of failures, collective failures of our government to deal with the problem, to scott hit at the beginning -- it it at the beginning. we step back. that did not happen under the new trunp administration. there are new kinds of crises. look at what happened in ukraine. that didn't happen under the current administration. there will be a certain amount of plaster that comes off the ceiling when these orders are issued. we had one the other day about a travel ban with which the u.k. government did not agree. we have to talk to the white house and trump administration to hammer in a bit of shape there.

we won't necessarily agree on guy,thing, but this is a and i appreciate what john mccain says about his team. he has a fantastic team around him. the compositions with rex tillerson and the last couple days have been very reassuring. rex has clearly thought deeply about these conflicts that people are looking to the u.s. to address, particularly human, libya, andemen, syria and iraq. i am optimistic that this. the doesn't mean i have no options. [laughter] what i would say to you is, give these guys, and give donald trump a chance. yes, it is a new style of government, but don't underrate the capacity for a new approach to deliver results.

>> you may say you have no option, but the person that truly has no option is president poroshenko. he's all in on the west such as it is now. when you see brexit, and when you see the changes in turkey, the changes in eastern europe -- the home care in leadership that actively monitors itself -- hungarian leadership that actively aligns itself with putin's leadership. is it ok? can ukraine live with a more transactional west, or does ukraine require that europe comes together more on these shared values? the things that our dutch foreign minister was so concerned about. or a little concerned about. >> thank you very much indeed. it is impossible to the president of the country in a state of war and not the an optimist. an optimist.

freedom and democracy is with us. victoryo doubt that will be with us. victory, i mean through diplomatic means. when i am told we are one of the most european optimistic nations, this is just explanation. i personally strongly believe events of the 20th and 21st century with the creation and effective functioning of the european union. this is different from russia. putin, what was the main event? he would say the collapse of the soviet union. a different universe.

not simply different ideology, different universe. i amthat situation, again, proud to be the leader of my 70%on who strongly believes -- 70% of ukrainians strongly believe in european values. reformswhy we do more during these last 2.5 years than the previous 25 years. this is extremely difficult, extremely unpopular, but the ukrainian people are still supporting and believe in the -- in thenion european future and european values. sorry. [laughter] >> we are backing you. >> when you talk war, you get more sensationalism on the panel.

>> yes. this destabilization is a disaster. we received information that russian backed militants 20 minutes ago hit a building. -- lots ofivilians civilians. 20 minutes ago. what are they looking for on ukrainian soil? why do they open artillery fire against my civilians? what do they want to deliver? you would be shocked. the reason is only one. they want to have a ukraine in the russian empire. we will never ever accept that. do you know why? because we believe not only in the european union, but also european unity and solidarity. confident that european

voters -- it made european voters much more responsible in their choice. electionafraid of any in the european union. to you know why? because i believe in the european union. that is the case. >> i want to make a brief comment. >> one more thing. holofernes -- 31st of december, was on the front line of troops with my marines. sen. mccain: we saw the brave ukrainian troops who have not received assistance from the u.s. as far as defensive weaponry is concerned. look, i agreed to be emotional. i thought this president give -- saw this president give a medal to a mother whose son was killed

by a russian sniper. it was cold, everyone stood around, and the mother stood there, and tears flowed down her face. russians are killing ukrainians every single day. they are killing them. i believe it is going to get worse, because i believe it will be a time of testing for this administration, mother be in the south china sea, whether it be in the middle east, whether it be in ukraine, and this is a time to show solidarity. one of the countries i think will come under pressure is yours. >> there is no question that you ukrainian issue is one of the key linchpins that would lead to the stable to begin with over the past years, and question around the trump administration have and will be exercising questions about what the west

stands for fourth quite some time. we have a bunch of good questions. i want to go to the audience before we see the chinese foreign minister. since you were the one that talks so articulately about the divisions inside the west, one thing i thought was interesting to see announced was an upcoming eu-china summit. we know that on the economic front, yes, nato has an article that deals with economics, but nato is not writing big checks, the chinese are. it was the u.k. looking for those big checks a few years ago. there are others in europe as well. it was the chinese that davos an was getting -- was getting. if you are poland thinking about your role in the future of the global economy,, shows the west play -- how much does the

west play a role compared you, ecks.se writing ch do you have to think about a strategy that cannot be all eu as a consequence? >> it is not very easy. [laughter] becauset very easy globalization is a fact. powers inally two big the economy worldwide, united states and china. if we talk about security and development in the future, in my opinion, it is very safety ando imagine

the united europe without the united states. it is impossible to imagine. look at the history. look at the history of the 20th century. two big world wars. first world war, second world war. every war started in europe. of thes the beginning first and second world war. united states, america, far finally they had to take part in this war. hundreds of thousands of young american boys died in europe and in other places, especially

during the second world war, yes? if i discuss with american a a few weeks ago about the security situation in ofope, about the result warsaw nato summits, about implementing those decisions, i said to them -- you can't leave soldiers, your troops are absolutely needed here. i am happy as a president of poland that you are here on our soil, a few thousand american soldiers, the biggest country of nato. when i think about the security of europe in europe, i think great britain is a crucial partner of our security here.

security.e problem of it is connected with economy. of course we would like to create good businesses, with america, but also in asia with china. but we have to be very careful and we have to look at our interests especially. in our part of the world. , want to be seen as a unity not as a group of separate countries. >> let me go to a couple questions from the audience. we have a parliamentarian from ukraine. excellencies, i have

a question to whoever may answer it. in 2008, ukraine and georgia during the bucharest summit asked for a nato action plan. 2 european states plucked the decision under the precondition -- blocked the decision under the precondition that it would escalate the situation. boardsived full-fledged in georgia and ukraine. -- theainian president budapest security guarantees were not implemented properly by the west, which was by the way signed by the u.s. president and ukrainian prime minister. my question is, would you agree that these type of western reactions actually instigated the hybrid war? thank you.

>> who wants to take it? [laughter] >> at -- i bet senator mccain will take it. whether you are asking if the bucharest declaration led to hybrid warfare by russia against ukraine, and indeed against others, i am not certain that is the case. i think very likely it would have happened anyway. said, there is a tendency in the kremlin these days. you see all stores -- all sorts of stuff going on, like in the western balkans, tv stations being messed around with, all sorts of plots being hatched by russia. whether that's entirely attributable to what happened in

bucharest in 2008, i very much doubt it. we've got to deal with it. this is one of the things that nato has to think about, the reality that cyber warfare requires us to think about article five, and how we come to each other's defense in the event of hybrid and cyber warfare. what are the triggers? retaliationlogic of and determines indicates -- deterrence in the case of cyber warfare? how can we respond? how do we know exactly how he is doing it without giving away our own sources of information? these are difficult questions we need to grapple with now. we will take one more here in the front.

>> thank you very much. i am of the european parliament. wanted -- i wanted to thank senator mccain. i hope more leaders in europe would be more direct and open about the support for the people of ukraine. i would like to talk to the foreign minister of the u.k. that the word liberation in europe has a strong meaning. in these challenging times we are talking about liberating britain from the european union is just bad taste. [applause] say, i hesitate to accuse you of pomposity. the word liberation, it is etymologically equivalent to being freed. it is an undeniable fact that

the u.k. has been unable to run its own trade policy for 44 years. we now have an opportunity to do exactly that. i think people should be very proud about that. that is exactly what we are. i want to reclaim the english-language, if i may. i see no reason why we can use the word liberation for our ability to take back control of our tariff schedules in geneva and do our own free-trade deals. i am sorry, i will disagree emphatically. >> we are not occupying you. we are not a present. -- not a prison.

>> i am from munich. thank you for your speech, senator. i was inspired from this vision. i think it is important now to have new ideas for the future. but i think perhaps we have to not look a step forward, only seeing our interests, but to solve the problems of the world. forward to look at the common good of the world. , itave heard the speech sounds a bit like a priest, but i think he is right. i am not naive. we have to look at the different interests and problems, but also to develop visions a bit more forward. what is the common good of the

world? can we see the interest of others? what are their plans? what are the benefits for them, not just for us? you talked about the g 20. there is another community to look -- what are the interests of the whole world? how can we come together? not share our values or defend our values only against other, but how can we share our values with others? how can we find ways to share our values? i don't want to criticize foreign politicians. good.priest, it is not mitthis circle perhaps, i ad i was shocked by this first speech of this president of the united states. i heard it, and i was shocked.

i will give him a chance. but, that was very hard to hear, and to have a vision also for the future. thank you. [applause] >> may be just a few words. it is key what you are saying. if we are all saying, our own country first, in a way that it can be interpreted as neo-protectionism or that our own values are the best and the rest is nothing, and we forget the enormous investment needed in public goods like climate and security, like dealing with the major conflicts in the world, without compromise we are nowhere. when you look at the issues today, in defense of universal rights, which means in defense of our rights in terms of democracy and rule of law -- i think that is key -- therefore

we shouldn't say, is there corruption in africa or friends -- it doesn't make any difference, corruption is corruption. i am appalled by the fact. i have worked 4 years in peacekeeping operations in africa. inave never seen a decade politics like the last 20 to 25 years. what a complete lack of interest for the protection of civilians. fighties are ready to until the last yemenite. and in my area, for the last malian. just for the type of conflicts that we have. -proxy, then it becomes like of willingness to

cooperate. not to make sure we are working as a cosmopolitan elite that no one understands, but to work for a community of nations. this is not naive idealism. i am a very big realist on this. we have to invest in this. that is what a generation of people asks. the anger in the world is being instrumentalise byd our own people the world. we did not mention that today. terror has to do with ideology. i think we have to find answers to that. >> a quick point from the eenator then we have th prime minister of china. sen. mccain: there are different aspects to the struggle. one we have been talking a lot about, the russian progressive

behavior, iran, etc. the other struggle is the ideological struggle, this terrible disease that is inflicting an honorable religion that motivates young people to take the lives of others. in both cases, we need to understand there is an information war going on, which is facilitated by devices like these. social networking is having an effect none of us had contemplated. young people in the united states don't own a television set. get their information off of the internet. way we just mention, the won the cold war was by having strong defense capabilities. nato was the bedrock of that. another way we won was radio free europe, voice of america. how many millions said, i listened to it -- i heard radio

free europe. we have to spend a lot more time, and you can be helpful in this, in giving people the information they need to fight back against the incredible inundation going on of propaganda from both the ideological aspect and russian aspect. >> everyone please j join th -- please join me in welcoming the chinese foreign minister. [applause] i imagine he is going to be standing. sir, good to see you again. >> how are you? >> very nice to see you again. >> thank you very much.

>> ladies and gentlemen, i will speak chinese. [chatter] [speaking foreign language]

>> it is becoming longer and longer and more and more daunting while terrorism. remains a great threat on top of that, there is an unbalanced and weak world economy, rising jail conflicts, a refugee crisis setback in globalization and reintegration processes. a long list of new challenges. so, what is wrong with the world

today? this is a question. a major question that bears on the future of mankind. about this question we have seen a plethora of and opinions. -- of views and opinions. i am sure that just now you have a lively discussion on this issue. as far as i understand, some say that economic liberalization is to blame for the many problems we face, and there should be a return to protectionism and isolationism. some say that the existing international order and system should be scrapped and started a new. some say that terrorism cannot be written out, and that there will be a new round of clashes of civilizations. some people say that the differences between established countries and emerging countries

are irreconcilable, and there are more chances for conflicts in the world. there is an old saying in china, the rightsorms us of dynasties and nations. this not the first time we reflect on the reality and make the choice for the future. throughout history, time and time again, we had come to the crossroads of survival of human beings. time and time again, we have had to make the historic choice between peace and war, cooperation and concentration, openness and closeness -- choices that have had far-reaching implications. when the right choice is made, the world embraces peace and development. when the wrong choice was made, it entailed fire and blood. the two world wars of last century are costly lessons. perhaps maybe we are standing

again at historical crossroads, but this time what is different is that we are in a world where country's interest are so closely intertwined. we are tied up in each other's future. we need -- we may not be able to afford any mistake. we can adopt an open attitude. you can encourage full debate to inspire figures exchange of ideas. when it comes to choices, we must be extra careful and thoughtful. as an international -- is an important member of the international community, china will not stand on the sidelines. earlier this year, president vision delivered -- president a centralg delivered message, that countries should be committed to openness and

inclusion, and cannot backpedal and go backward. about the future of the world, the president put forward this community of shared future and share results. solutions is china's that china put forward based on study of the times and set by the common interest of mankind, and has been only received. we believe that globalization is not a dreadful monster, and we should not blame globalization for all the problems we face. we need to steer it and work on it so that it will become more balanced, inclusive, more sustainable, and deliver more universal benefits. we believe that the world has not lost order. international order and system

built after the second world war is still playing a key and irreplaceable role in maintaining development and should be upheld and maintained. we believe that there is no one-size-fits-all development path or model, and there is no so-called end of history. onels should be based international reality and supported by the people with a spirit of mutual respect, learning and drawing from each other's strengths. we believe terrorism and global challenges are not insurmountable. we need to find the resources to address them effectively through international cooperation and confidence of governance. -- and comprehensive governance. observe the truly

principles of the u.n. charter, disputes could be addressed through peaceful means, and conflict and confrontation can be avoided. win-win cooperation can be achieved on a basis of peaceful coexistence. president xi gave an analogy. he hopes that we can make for the world an exquisite swiss army knife -- wherever there is a problem, we can fix it with one of the tools of this knife. toolkit athat in the our disposal, there are quite some tools that are carefully designed by countries that crystallize the collective wisdom of mankind, and have been proven effective. they can be used to solve our kinds of challenges facing the world today. of course in this process we need to pay attention to make

sure that they work with each other, not against each other. we need to be creative and improve them along the way. we need to meet committed to multilateralism. againy tells us time and that self-centered unilateralism will only heighten tension and conflict, and bring more trouble. multilateralism is the effective pass away to peace, development, and solution of global issues. after the second world war, countries have learned the hard lesson, and designed and built collectively a set of international free market mechanisms. united nations is no doubt the core and pillar of that system. china was directly involved in and wasding of the u.n. the first country to put its signature on the u.n. charter. institutionseral

represented by the u.s. have worked -- by the u.n. have worked relentlessly and have achieved historical progress. face,e concentrations we -- the universalized norms regarding relations are not observed. 70 years later, multilateralism is most -- is the most effective cool and effort to address problems. it is not obsolete. that, it should be carried forward. at this interesting time, the authority of the united nations should be upheld, not undermined. it's all should be strengthened, not weakened. we need to be firmer in maintaining the principles of the u.n. charter, leveraging

security mechanisms defined by the u.n. charter, and further elevate the governance capability and effectiveness of the united nations. to spend among major powers -- countries big or small are illegal. at the same time, big countries have more resources and more capabilities. they have the responsibility and also the application to play a greater role in maintaining international peace and security, and make more conjuration to development and progress. along, thewers get world enjoys peace and stability. beerwise, the world will entailed in conflict. facing all kinds of global challenges, big countries should free the worldo

from troubles, instead of going their own way and serving their self-interest, or even go into confrontation. china is a responsible major country. we are ready to have this coexistence and sincere cooperation with all countries. this is one of the most important bilateral relationships in the world. this is the 45th victory of the communique and reopening of engagement. in the past 45 years, chinese corporation has evolved so than themore expectations of the most optimistic people. history shows we have more interest -- more common interests than differences. president xiago jinping and president trump had an important and successful

telephone conversation. thetwo sides affirmed importance of u.s.-china relations. president trump affirmed the u.s. government commitment to the one china policy. this consensus has maintained -- political foundations integrated necessary conditions for the two countries to work together bilaterally at the regional level and at the global level. we are ready to work with the united states guided by the principle of non-confrontation, mutual respect, and increased cooperation, focus on trust, and his differences so that he was-chinese relationships can bring more benefits to the american people and the broader world. the china-russian strategic partnership is an important

cornerstone to maintain international strategic balance and global stability. this year president putin will go to china twice. president xi jinping will also visit russia. chinese-russian relations will move forward at a high level. we will strengthen coordination with the u.s. and russia to promote constructive interactions among the three countries so that we can contribute more positive energy to world peace and development. valued thelways strategic standing and role of europe and china-eu relations has been china's priority in his diplomacy. europewe will work with the eu o build on the 4 partnerships. we need to improve corporate governance.

-- global governance. development,ace openness, and innovation on a more prominent place. we must not reject economic globalization simply because of its effects. we must pursue international cooperation to address issues like poverty, unemployment, and widening depth of income. we need to jointly steer economic globalization towards greater balance. we need to upgrade and improve global governance systems so they can reflect changes to power and give emerging markets and developing countries greater representation. china is actively dissipating in global government. last september, president xi jinping held a successful summit. for the first time, innovation was driven as the new driving force of global recovery.

structural reform was recognized as the main approach to resolving challenges to the main economy, and development was placed i on the agenda of macro policy coordination. and the 2017 meeting of the world economic forum, president xi continued to call for more universally beneficial economic liberalization. proposal the chinese for voting and open economy. please strong messages have helped to increase people's confidence in the future. we need to firmly events all types of regional cooperation processes. regional cooperation of various types have been emerging, like bamboo shoots after a spring rain. these instructions have brought countries closer to each other, and cooperation has expanded

interests. has provedrporation conducive to world development, as all regional cooperation processes launched after world war ii, the european integration has the earliest fastest development and most remarkable achievements. it follows the trend of the times and has made important contributions the world. it has run into some difficulties at the moment, but these problems will be addressed in the present moving forward. china hopes to see a united, stable, and prosperous european union and a bigger more active role of the eu in international affairs. china has always advocated and promoted regional cooperation. jinping president xi started the road initiative. this is so far the biggest public good china has provided

to the international community. it is also the most welcomed corporative initiative in the world. to speed up regional integration and ghost: development and prosperity of eurasian countries and other regions. this initiative has been raised before. speed and outcomes of building has exceeded expectations. over 100 countries and international organizations have expressed positive and active response and support. this may, china will host in beijing a forum on international cooperation, another important contribution of china to global cooperation and governments. we believe the forum will be a success to deliver more benefits

to the world. ladies and gentlemen, 2017 is important for china's development. the communist party will have its 19th national congress. our development plan is being implemented. china will continue to manage well its own affairs, from reform across the board opening of water -- opening up wider, contribute global development, and uphold multilateralism. china will make a new contributions to peace and development of mankind. these are my remarks. thank you so much for listening. [applause] i am afraid we only have time for a quick question. given this is the security conference, you have covered the world, but have not talked about north korea.

of course we have seen a lot missiles of late, both being shot off, and a leader being killed. we would love to hear the chinese response on how to handle north korea going forward. >> this is being hotly debated in the world. what i want to say is that to address the nuclear issue on the korean peninsula, there have always been two main pathways. one is dialogue, the second, confrontation. at what weook back have experienced during the past ,ecade from 2003 to 2009

have not been going on the nuclear issue. on the peninsula, there have been setbacks. while there was negotiation, nuclear development was under effective management and control , and the overall stability of the peninsula was upheld. 2009, the sixince -- talks suffered suffered a deadlock. what we have seen ever since then, this issue on the peninsula has embarked on the track of confrontation. we see nuclear tests, and then sanctions on nuclear tests. this is a bad circle, and should be stopped.

ae ultimate result of such lose-loseld be a result for all parties. and no one can bear the outcomes. we believe there are still opportunities for the resumption of the six party talks. we still hope for peace. we should earnestly and include all security council resolutions, including the recent wanted to 17 -- the recent 22-17 and 22-31. these were enablers to effectively hold back the ,uclear development of the dprk while at the same time we must

never let go of efforts to resume the talks and negotiations. consistent with the security council solutions. that is why we hope all parties concerned will refrain from taking further actions that may .ead to escalations all parties concerned should actively explored the possibility of making breakthroughs in addressing the problem. we should work to bring back parties to return to the negotiation table. areunited states and dprk two major parties concerned. they must make decisive political decisions as quickly as they can.

for china, is the biggest we will of the dprk, play a constructive role and to as necessary.work >> thank you very much for your aspresentation, having this chinese view about the end of the west. this was a very good idea. thank you very much. i would like to thank the panelists who have done a great job. [applause] mr. president, our moderator. >> next, live, your calls and comments on washington journal. then the comptroller general identifies government waste. and then a joint news conference between president trump's and canadian prime minister justin trudeau. presidents were

america's greatest leaders? c-span recently asked 91 historians to rate our 43 presidents in 10 areas of leadership. top billing went to the president who preserved the union, abraham lincoln. he told the top spots for all 3 surveys. the top three vote-getters hold their positions george , washington, theodore roosevelt. makes hisenhower first appearance in the c-span top five this year. rounding out the historian's top 10 choices, harry truman, thomas jefferson, john f. kennedy, and ronald reagan. lyndon johnson jumps up one spot this year to return to the top 10. pennsylvania's james buchanan is ranked dead last in all surveys. bad news for andrew jackson.

our seventh president found his overall rating dropping from number 13 to number 18. the survey had good news for outgoing president barack obama. on his first time on the list, historians placed him number 12 overall. george w. bush moved 3 spots up to 33 overall. with big gains. how did our historians rate your favorite president? who are these leaders and the losers. you can look at the winners and losers in each of the 10 our website at www.c-span.org. solomonmorning, norman speaks with us. and then elizabeth from the project of government oversight look separate sections for whistleblowers. and later, national review

contributor or in -- oren cass speaks to us about the on climateagenda control. washington journal is next. cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, it is saturday, february 18th, 2017 and in the headlines on today's washington journal, president donald trump will hold his first campaign style rally as president this afternoon in melbourne, florida. an event described by some as a kickoff to the 2020 election, just four weeks into his presidency. a new study shows that americans are stressed out about the future of the nation, the american psychological association study found that 57% of americans say the current political climate is a significant source of stress. we are asking our viewers today