consumer you don't know where that's happening in the process. if it's happening the last mile, point of internet connection to you. you don't know. all of that should be included there to protect the consumer and their ability to access the entire internet. >> watch the communicators tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. join us tuesday morning as we head to the heart of appalachia's coal country for "washington journal" spotlight on the coal industry. we'll be live at a coal transfer center in ohio to talk about coal mining regulation. our guests are robert murray, owner of murray energy. ohio republican congressman bill johnson. vivian stockman, vice director of the ohio valley environmental coalition. and nick mullins, author of "the thoughtful coal miner blog" watch "washington journal" spotlight on the coal mining industry live tuesday morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: it is time for our "your money" segment. joining us from feeze, arizona, rafael carranza, with the "arizona republic" he reports on a border and a recent story of his takes a look how much it costs to deport one person from the united states. good morning. guest: thank you for having me on. host: the price tag you came up with was $11,000. first of all how did you get to this figure? guest: this is a government estimate. that's something that they calculated. we still don't have exact specifics how they did that. some of the estimates that come close to that as well, they took a look at the number of -- what was included in the budget for the previous fiscal year. and then the number of removals that took place or the number of flights or looking at the different processes of the deportation process and dividing that. that's more or less of best estimate.

but there isn't a very reliable figure per se just because there is not one specific place to track that. there are several studies that kind of take a jab at this to get the number. the must recent one we have comes from the government, immigration and customs enforcement. host: you grokebroke down through other figures the various steps in deportation and kind of a price tag attached. i want to show figures what you have in your story and have you talk on the rest. starting with the apprehension process, $4,800 per person on average. can you talk about that figure. and the apprehension process itself and where the money goes. guest: the apprehension costs, this has to do with how people are detained. this is one of the second most expensive one, but from what we hear it has the potential to be the biggest expense moving forward. so these $4,800 is based as

i mentioned from some of the studies we looked at. looking at the amount that i.c.e. had to remove people anti-number of people they removed of unauthorized immigrants they removed from the country. that's how they the chair: came up with the estimate. the reason why this could be one of the more expensive processes moving forward is because up until now i.c.e. depends heavily on local law enforcement to detain people, at least notify i.c.e. whenever they have someone in custody they are looking for. so it just kind of transferring custody. the cost from this process kind of -- are borne by the local agencies whether it's sheriff's departments or state police, local law enforcement. but moving forward as president trump has expressed his did he sire for i.c.e. to expand those operations and to target more unauthorized immigrants and go after this them could drive up

the costs because that means you are going to have to hire more i.c.e. agents and spend a lot more time investigating where people are. we're talking about unauthorized immigrants a lot of times. they are embedded into this community. they have been here for a number of years, oftentimes. it's a matter of locating them and where they are at. so this could really drive up costs and also time, which is also cost the taxpayers as well moving forward. host: that's one of the figures our guest has taken a look at when it -- for the cost of one person to be deported the united states. we'll talk about some others f you have some questions about these costs for our guest. 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-8001 for republicans. and 202-748-8002 for independents. we have seen foteyotes of detention areas where people once they are aprehended as you talk about, they have to be detained somewhere. an estimate in your story racks that at about $5,400

per person. can you talk about this detention process and where those costs are borne. guest: again this is coming from an estimate of the number of the detention beds we have available. as of now there's 34,000 and the federal government has mandated to keep them full throughout the whole time. when you have 34,000 people in detention, divide that by what the government spent last year, you come up with this figure. on average they spend about $180 per day to keep someone in custody and their average length of stay is 30 days t could be shorter, it could be longer. but that's the average. when you calculate those two numbers, you end up with the $5,400 price tag. again as we mentioned, looking forward, looking ahead, as president trump has also called for increased detention bed space. that number could also rise as well if we start

detaining a lot more individuals. some of the detention centers close to the border as well. host: how many detention centers are we looking at? what are the facilities like? guest: i don't have an exact figure for you, but we're talking about dozens of centers. mainly along the southwest border. this is for logistics purposes. what happens, what i.c.e. does is after they detain someone or they pick someone up from local law enforcement, while they are trying to determine having to go through the process, court proceedings and then -- it takes time to actually remove someone. it's not an immediate process. unless there is a lot of little details, but if they have in the country less than two years, then they can be removed a little quicker. but usually it takes more time. in the meantime they are held in detention. most of the certainties are located along the southwest border. there are some in other

parts of the state. those are mainly located closer to areas where they can be -- where they can be repatriated more easily. the southwest border makes sense because many of the immigrants are from mexico. it's easier. once they are done through the deportation process, once they have gone through t. they can be removed through there. the southeast you also have cases where some of the people are repatriated to countries of origin other than mexico. and those cases they are flown to their countries of origin and -- so that's why you have some of them there as well. but all of that calculates into the costs of the deportation process because you do have to transport them as well. host: we have some calls lined up for you about the cost of deportation with our guest rafael carranza rafael carranza of the "arizona republic" douglas from washington state. republican line. go ahead. douglas? we'll go next to robert. robert in georgia.

democrats line. robert, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you. i wanted to know how many institutions privately owned versus the publicly owned. it seems like a lot of these institutions these days are owned by private companies. thank you. guest: to answer your question, the government contracts with private companies to hold people. so most of the detention centers are private companies. the biggest one, c.c.a., so they are the ones that run many of the detention centers. it is a private entity. the federal government pays them to operate these. the government does pay for the cost of transportation through i.c.e., through apprehension as i mentioned. then the detention costs are handed out to the contractors and the private

companies. host: one of the other categories you highlighted in your story is that of court proceedings. can you tell how this worked. when an immigrant is taken in and some of these costs are beared out does that mean everybody appears before a judge? guest: not everyone has the chance to do that. as i mentioned previously it depends on many factors. in some intanses -- instances if you are picked up at the border right away or recently within months after enentering into the u.s., illegally, there is a -- there is something called expedited removal which you can be removed at a much faster pace, process. that also depends, for example, if you have a claim that you have fear to go back to your country, you claim persecution, then you are entitled for -- to go through the asylum process, which is a separate entity as well. separate process. for the most part someone who has been here more than

two years, they do -- that's something that advocates push for is to try to get them for presentation, so that way they can follow through the process. oftentimes whenever you do have someone, legal counsel who is accompanying someone through the process, there is a greater chance of having them stay in the country either through a deferred deportation or one of the other -- they may qualify for one of the other programs either qualifying for asylum or one of the other visas, specialty visas that are out there. there are so many categories. it depends, it's a very individualized circumstance. it depends a lot on where you were caught. what you were doing. what you were claiming you were doing in the country. there is a lot of leeway. it varies greatly from area and person to person. host: let's hear from mike in california, democrats line. caller: hi.

good morning. how you doing. i just had a comment about the amount of money that's being spent on this and also the amount of money supposedly going to this wall. i think it would be more cost-effective for the country, because we need money so many other important places, to actually put more border patrols on the borders. and allocate the rest of this money to something similar to health care or something like that. i just think we're spending a lot of money for something that could be utilized in a better areas. guest: thank you for that. these costs for deportation, they will continue. that's something that the u.s. government has made a priority. certainly the last administration also made it a priority. so these costs kind of have continued to expand. over the past few years. we anticipate they will continue to expand. at least for deportation. the wall is obviously another issue entirely, it will depend a lot on what

kind of funding they can get for this project. certainly it's going to be a big, passionate debate come september when you start talking about the 2018 budget. but we anticipate that the money for deportation, $2.5 billion that i.c.e., president trump was asking for i.c.e., i think they'll get a pretty good chunk of that because he's made that a pretty big priority. and we anticipate it will remain a big priority for the next coming years. host: when you talk about that $11,000 price tag, how does that compare when it comes to other administrations? the highest? lowest? where does it fall? guest: one of the things that i found out when reporting about this is a lot of analysts they say that the costs tend to decrease as time moves forward because -- kind of makes sense when you think about it because at the beginning when you are starting to either expand operations, when you are

picking up -- starting to do more, you kind of have to invest a lot on the infrastructure. it's costly investments such as hiring more officers. that's going to be one of the biggest expense because we're talking about salaries. we're talking about benefits. and then you also have to build the actual physical infrastructure. more bed space. you have to hire more immigration judges to accommodate the increased number of people going through the process. so all of that -- it's going to bring up the numbers. looking at the actual estimate that i.c.e. had in 2011, they estimated that it was closer to $12,500. those -- that's obviously a little bit higher than the estimate that we have now. we anticipate that's because when president obama started expanding a lot of these operations, they were also investing in a lot of these infrastructure to get more

deportations under way. that's something maybe we could see in the future as well. right now it stands at about $10,le00 the average cost to remove someone. that could also go up as president trump has talked about they start deporting and repatriating a lot more people. host: pat from nebraska. independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. aren't we going about this backward? why don't we just round up and prosecute the big bosses who lure immigrant workers here and hire them in violation of law. wouldn't that be much cheaper because of the lower volume of cases? guest: good morning, pat. that's something that a lot -- it's a pretty big criticism because a lot of people talk about the need for labor in a lot of places that for have depended on undocumented labor such as the fields and lower-skilled

professions. but they are saying a lot of people say people wouldn't come here if the jobs weren't there. that's definitely a valid point that should be analyzed further. up until this point the number of prosecutions of businesses or business owners has actually stayed low. it hasn't been a very big change in the number of businesses that are prosecuted for hiring. certainly we saw a lot of that here in arizona, for example, when we had the raids, work site raids, going after undocumented immigrants. there was a lot of criticism into his office because there was a lot of the unauthorized immigrants were detained but a lot of the business owners actually hired them just got off on a slap of the wrist. a lot of people didn't agree with the way that was being operated. i think it's something that could be looked at in the

future. host: charles from north carolina, republican line for our guest rafael carranza of the "arizona republic." caller: mr. car ransa, good morning. -- carranza, good morning. pedro, good morning. i see it's clear you can analyze how much to send people back. i think to balance out your story you have to say what is the social cost of people who are here who are not working, who are accessing federal programs, housing, health care, schooling for their multiple kids and english as a second language that we have to do. showing up at the emergency room for the birth babies. there is a social cost. and the folks that we're trying to get out have also committed crimes. sometimes very, very serious crimes. so when you balance that out, i haven't heard anybody in congress step up and say, i would like to outlaw all federal programs for illegal immigrants. and they are accessing them. a lot of people are not all working and they are not all contributing to society and becoming americans.

a lot of people are accessing federal programs and they are costing us an awful lot of money. in the long run it's probably cheaper to spend the money on i.c.e. to send them back. guest: thank you for that comment. that is a big criticism that i have heard. after i wrote this story. while the focus of what i'm doing for this particular article does focus on the cost of deportation itself, that is definitely another valid point to look into. there have been numerous studies that have come out. it really depends on who you look at and who you talk to when you analyze or look at these numbers because you do have studies that come out and say it's a lot more expensive to care for undocumented immigrants or unauthorized people in the country than what they are contributing. but at the same time you also have a lot of other agencies and a lot of other people who claim the opposite that their contributions are greater

than what they are taking out since they do have a lot of workers who tend to pay taxes but then they can't claim any of the benefits. it depends on who you talk to. as i mentioned there are many studies that have been done on the topic. it is something worth looking at. host: in fact, in your story that you wrote about, this you quote research from the center for information studies. according to those calculations unskilled undocumented immigrants use $74,724 more in public services than they pay in taxes over the lifetime. guest: something that mentioned was he sees these costs of deportation, if the costs, $10,000, $11,000 to remove someone, they are saying it costs $74,000 to maintain someone in the country, then he sees it as a bargain the fact that you are only spending $10,000 to $11,000 to remove someone. but as i mentioned, the center for immigration

of a s has to be more right leaning. they advocate for lesser immigration. the american action forum comes out of a right leaning. with their own estimates and they say that that ually costs less -- enough people contribute more than what they would get out to keep immigration reform which is another topic which is very passionate and very gate debated. can definitely fill -- another half-hour to talk about. host: democrats line, santa rosa, california, sara. high there. caller: hi. good morning. guest: good morning. caller: how are you? guest: doing well, yourself? caller: i'm fine, thank you. i have been sitting here listening to the program and i see that if we deport all the hispanic people from working and send them back to their country, i

want to see if a lot of us white people are willing to go out there to bend our backs for eight to $10 a day for a lousy $7.50 an hour. we dripe. we came from this country. our forefathers came from his country as immigrants. all of a sudden we're on our high horse and we want to put down everybody else. i think it's a crying shame that the republicans think this way. it really just -- it hurts my heart to know that we treat each other this way. we were all created by one god. and we're all brothers and sisters. and this has got to stop. host: sara from santa rosa, california. any response? guest: i just -- i want to expand on the point that you made. i do want to add that the fact that increasing is not just hispanics from latin

america who are in the country illegally. some of the rising populations are the biggest number of unauthorized immigrants we have seen are actually from other countries outside of latin america such as china, india. some of these other countries. and as a matter of fact we have seen the mexican immigration reverse. we have more mexicans going back to mexico than coming into the u.s. and the pugh research center came out with a study where of the total unauthorized population in the u.s., less than half of them are mexican, which is historic for the first time they have recorded something like that. it's a trend we could see into the future as we have more people from other countries trying to get to the u.s. i also point out that the way they are getting into the country is increasingly through visas and they are just overstaying so they come here legally. at least on a tourist visa

or other type of visa and once it expires they remain in the country and the u.s. doesn't have a very reliable way to track who exits and who -- who comes in and who comes out. host: from chandler, arizona, republican line. patty, you are on with our guest. go ahead. caller: yes. thanks. i was calling in first of all like you said i'm here in arizona. subscriber to the "arizona republic" we have a loft problems as everybody knows here with illegals. when that young man was shot dead working at the convenience store by a person here illegally. we have a lot of problem with wrong way drivers on the freeway, drunk, don't belong here. i don't think there is any amount that's too much to deport an illegal immigrant. who is here illegally committing crimes. my son was the victim of identity theft before he was even in kindergarten. and i was fortunate enough

to find out and they were prosecuted because i was on public assistance and they were able to tell on their computers. during the illegal swamp, no matter what it cost, money well spent. host: mr. carranza, does the administration get concerned about the ceiling cost rising too high? you talked about this possible added increase. the budget requested by the trump administration. is there ain't po where they say this price is too high? guest: under this administration, they have made this priority. so i don't think there is going to be a price or limit where they are going to say it's too much. we have seen time and time again through the executive orders that he has signed and just through what he has said publicly, that this is something that he wants to do. he's especially, as he mentioned, targeting people with criminal backgrounds. what we have started to see throughout the country is that it's not just

individuals who are here unauthorized who have committed major crimes. murder, some of those things. but also some of these other crimes which under the obama administration were not considered a priority, identity theft being one of them. so we have started to see a lot more instances and we don't have the statistics yet to back that up just because the government hasn't made that available. but we have seen a lot of more instances, for example, of people who have been in the country under a deferred dedee portation and they were required to check in with i.c.e. for committing some other crimes such as identity theft. and under this administration they are starting to get deported just because they have seen that as a greater priority. so i think that to your point we -- they are requesting a lot more money for the budget next year. that could be something -- a trend that continues throughout his entire administration.

especially if he's serious about deporting a lot more people. we estimate there is about two million people unauthorized immigrants in the u.s. who have committed some sort of crime. about 800 of those, little more serious crimes. just going to depend a lot. we'll have to wait a and see what the administration does. as of now it seems like there isn't going to be a limit in terms of the cost the. host: independent line, ormed, florida, paul, you are next. caller: first time i have ever called in to any kind of show. if the illegals coming into this country, illegal, i know they are, they got to be working for an employer. if you are going to import -- deport them, why can't you go after the employer and recoup this charge? and that would stop everything. just doing it one-sided is not going to accomplish anything. you got to go after the employer that's been hiring them and make them pay. because they have actually broke some laws, too.

thank you. host: go ahead. guest: thank you for your point. i'll respond to that that we have seen from this administration, especially in the budget appropriations, a bit more money that is being allocated for a program called e-verify as well. this program what it does is employers are supposed to use this to determine someone's eligibility for -- to work in this country legally. so we have seen that up until this point it hasn't been mandatory, it hasn't been enforced very heavily. but under this administration this could be a tool that could be implemented and certainly there seems to be an intention to want to implement it to make better use of it so that way that is a process that could be used, another tool that could be used to discourage immigration, unauthorized immigration. also it's also a way to track down who are the employers who are employing

people who they shouldn't be. host: nancy in big bear city, california. republican line. we're short on time. jump right in. aller: hi. per the g.a.o. 82% of crime is committed by illegal hispanics. we lose thousands of jobs every day because they won't learn how to speak english. what he's talking about is a pittance compared to how much it costs. if you go back and read the news, the people in central america cost us over $20 billion to take care of. for the supposed humanitarian crisis. jesuit organization -- it's just the cost totally outweighs. host: we have to leave it there. i apologize. mr. carranza, go ahead. guest: i'm not sure where the numbers are coming from. i want to make the distinction a lot of the

central americans coming to the country now, they are coming for asylum or claiming asylum. it's a different process. they are coming into the ron country. but when they get to the border they are turning themselves in to immigration authorities because they are claiming asylum they go through a separate process from deportation proceedings. host: rafael carranza has been our guest for our "your money" segment this week. he has a story monks others when it comes to the tomek of immigration, this one if you goes to the website of "arizona republic" or saw it in "usa today." it takes a look at the costs, deportation costs $11,000 per. rafael carranza our guest. thanks for your time this morning. guest: thank you so much for having me. great being here. host: that is it for our program today. don't forget tomorrow on this program, all three hours devoted to the topic of coal production and coal's role in energy. we'll talk to a variety of guests and learn a lot about it. that will be the focus of

our "washington journal" tomorrow which starts at 7:00. we'll see you then. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] comey will be speaking the anti-defamation league today.in washington d.c. also live today, oral argument in the case of president trump's revised travel ban executive order. before the fourth circuit court of appeals in virginia. executive order attempted to

restrict issuing u.s. eases to citizens of six majority muslim countries. c-span petition the court to provide a live broadcast and court approved the request. it is the first time live broadcast is been allowed in a federal court case. we will have that live at 2:30 p.m. eastern. president trump tweeted ahead of a russian influence in u.s. with possibleing collusion of his former national security advisor. general and was given a high security clearance why the obama administration, but the egg news seldom likes talking about that. and regarding sally gates. if she knows classified information got into the newspapers. we will have live coverage on regarding- on c-span russian influence into the russian election and we would

hear from the former director of national and elegance, james -- national intelligence, james clapper. communicators,he michael beckerman, president and the eeo of the internet association made up of 40 internet companies including google, facebook, and amazon talks about new regulation totals from the fcc and how to preserve a free and open internet. he is interviewed by politico technology reporter margaret mcgill. >> and looks like they are trying to remove the agency's of already over traffic takes change. why might that be a problem? at the end of the day it's about consumers. you're looking at the internet, you pay your internet service provider and you are paying a lot of money and you want access to the entire internet are in it your experience is altered in

, as a consumer you don't know where that is happening in the us. all of that should be included there to protect the consumer and their ability to access the entire internet. >> watch tonight at 8:00 eastern on these bantu. -- on c-span two. welcomes the congressman. as we start here, we're recording this on thursday afternoon. the republicans passed their health care legislation package by just a couple of votes. i am wondering about the politics and policy.