tv Senator Jeff Flake Answers Constituent Questions in Gilbert Arizona CSPAN August 25, 2017 4:32pm-5:28pm EDT
well. well. >> is this one? okay. alright. got you. okay. well we'll get it before the event is over here today. well senate doors lot going in washington right now. constructive politics and return to principal to. talk a little bit about that book at echos and number of the comments that barry goldwater made in a similar book 56 years ago and maybe you can talk about the book and why you thought i was important to do that right now? >> barry goldwater. thanks. i think we're going to take some questions later. we have some questions prepared for the senator. >> we just want to know are you with chlt
with. we have opportunity for questions from audience a little later. later. >> barry goldwater in 1960 felt the conservative movement and the republican party had been compromised at that time by the new deal and felt there need to be a manifesto or blueprint for conservatives to follow and he wrote the conscious of a conservative at that time. this book that i wrote is very much in homage to senator goldwater but i'm concerned where we are today that the
party is going down a populist route, populism is called that for a reason. it may be popular and you might win elections that way but it not a governing philosophy and i'm concerned with a couple of things. one inc. this anti-free trade and arizona benefits significantly from free trade. nafta has been good for arizona. it needs to be modernized but it needs to be continued not abandoned and i'm concerned where the party might go there and also a good half of the book is on what the sub title is a rejection of destructive politics. i am a conservative but not in a bad mood about it. i think that it's something that's an affirmative, positive philosophy and not built on anger or hatred.
and i'm concerned about where the party might be going there as well and if we follow the lead of some individuals that would give into that kind of destructive behavior. so i did address that in the book and talk a lot about going up in - i was talking to mr. adams. snowflakes the center of the universe. i'm sure the eclipse will be most prominent there. where i grew up but i grew up with a great example my father the mayor of self lake and parks board and judiciary advisory for state and jake congratulations from snowflakes beloved speaker of the house. my uncle stan terrilly and senate president and they found a way to govern in arizona and work across the aisle and do so in a collegial manner and i feel
we're losing some of that in the shirts verses skins winner and losers type of environment and that's a concern and i address that in the book. >> you address it well. thank you. there was a quote i think in the atlantic a while back maybe you were too nice to be a senator. you clearly have a stellar conservative record and i think it shows you can be nice and be a conservative too. >> i hope. so >> try not to get grumpy being conservative. we appreciate it. you mentioned free trade. you've been a strong supporter of it. very important to the state of arizona and the southern part of the united states and the whole country. can you share some thoughts on insights on what's happening in free trade. directions your taking? clearly some have broke with the administration and are different. >> well overall trade has been extremely important for the state of arizona. we're a border
state and we take advantage of that. we have i think 19 billion in trade with mexico last year. that's something that we should be proud of and seek to expand and very proud of the chambers the east valley chambers the arizona chamber of commerce all those folks that have pushed this and people in arizona understand better than some other states the value and importance of trade. over all in this country we are just 5% of the world's population. less than 5%. less than 20% of the world's economic output and shrinking not because our economy is shrinking but the developing world is growing faster. we can't grow economically or have a better quality of living and qualify of life if we build barriers to trade and so i'm very concerned about where we're going. the rejection of the
trans-pacific partnership or t.p.p was a big mistake that will haunt for us a long time. as we speak, the other parties to the tpp the other 11 countries are seeking to do deal as among's themselves and they'll leave us behind and once the international supply chains are set it's tough to break back in we all know how that works and i'm very concerned not just on the economic front, but on the geo-political front as well rejecting the tpp means particularly the countries in southeast asia. we want them in our orbit not just in china's and we're giving them little choice now in the pacific rim countries. they are looking elsewhere for trade partnerships and we have to get away from the idea that we're the only game in town. we're not. and so we can harness free trade and make to it our benefit as it has been over in the past couple
of decades. several decade but if we reject the trade agreements, the administration is said that they want to go forward with bi lateral trade agreements. great do them. they usually grow up to be multi-lateral trade agreements in this day and age but we can't reject these, so i am concerned about that. with regard to nafta. nafta, prior to nafta our total trade with mexico was between 50 and 60 billion dollars a year. 25 years ago. now it's over 500 billion dollars a year. the administration seems to fixate on this trade deficit we have of about 50 billion dollars and we'll take it if you're trading, nearing 600 billion of the trade deficit. the trade deficit particularly when they have to do with the energy sector are not as detrimental as some people paint them as. we have to move forward and i'm
concerned that the early rhetoric. the campaign the president's campaign was to reject nafta and rip it up. that has evolved gratefully to renegotiate. i hope that means let's marginalize it and make it better all countries involved. the recent negotiation points that they're moving forward look better and i'm encouraged as are my colleagues that want free trade. >> you spoke well about that and the way you phrased it if we create a vacuum somebody is waiting to fill it. >> just after the election it was a pre planned trip but it took on more urgency and after i was there the mexican senate was working on the t.p.p that we had just rejected and so their efforts were moot in that
regard. significantly right around that same time the chinese president and the russian president were both in central or south america, telling these countries that would have been part of the t.p.p that we are here and that says something about where we need to go and that we're going to be left behind if we don't aggressively look for these trade arrangements. >> great, thank you. >> let's talk about something closer to home. your fifth generation arizonan and you know water is important in the life blood to arizona. we're fortunate we have you as senate energy subcommittee chair for water and power and appreciate the support and srp that arizona has received from that. let's talk about your efforts. >> srp. i rely on that. thank you for all you do there. it's been wonderful to fly over northern arizona when i fly from
back east coming to see all the greenery and whenever i fly over northern arizona i can pick out snowflakes and see that big tomato facility and go from that over to my parent's house and in our ranch and in my mind's eye i see myself on a horse riding mile after mile after mile there and i never remember it being this green right now so it is gorgeous. we've been benefitting from a wet monsoon period. particularly in the nevadas. everyone think that solves the drought and little reprieve with the water level there. water is life blood. arizona has planned very well. better than other western state
because of the foresite of those that came before us. those that worked in the central arizona project. worked on the ground water code and republicans and for development to happen so we're in better shape here. the key is to make sure that kind of planning continues and that's why it's been great to work with senator mccain and sit down with the governor and his water advisors and say what are the priorities for arizona. we did this a couple of years ago to make sure our efforts were best spent on arizona's real priorities and we were told that one thing we really needed to do was make sure that voluntary arrangements to leave water behind the dam by water users would be honored by the federal government to make sure that water didn't disappear down
some canal in california a you. later on. we got an agreement from the department of interior to make sure those voluntary water arrangements would be cast in stone or honored because that was done in appropriations bill. we'll have to do the same thing this year and we believe we can do it, but we have got to make sure that the colorado river that we have a drought contingency plan. that involves a lot of water users obviously and there's states so these are important things but just as important for arizona is to make sure every drop that falls there is captured and that we make best use of it and until we better manage the northern forest we're not going to get that. srp has done a lot of work.
nature conservative and a lot of groups showing as we have a watershed with traditionally in the ponderosa pine forest in the north there were about 20-50 trees per acre and now there's more than 200 on average. that's a lot of straws in the ground and it's also fuel for fires and just in the past 15, 16 years we've lost about 20% of our northern forest and that has for our river and reservoir systems and srp knows about that when you have fires or floods after the fires it washes sediment and that has things
we're working on a lot. >> you can't talk about water without the watershed and the conditions as result of the fires costly as perspective of water quality and just life in the northern mountains so i appreciate all your efforts on that. you can't have a successful manage a successful watershed control without a forest industries process more developed than what we have now. they need to partner with private industry and prior to the fire that was government we had the paper mill and the forest in terms of reducing that
fuel load but that all went and that was partly the reason that the fire and the fire after that were so devastating. after the rodeo fire we knew that we needed to get private industry back into the forest and we started stewardship contracts and that's one area congress worked well with the administration and we were able to bring back about 135 in bio industry. bio plants and others. you know and other uses for these forest products. the difficulty is we have a lot of acreage now but getting it prepped and ready for private industry to go back in it's been an on-going process one that
senator mccain and myself we work on a lot and we tend to work together on that to have better leverage. we work to make sure they're prioritizing arizona and we have had the full forest initiative there and we have about five hundred and had problems with the contractor but hopefully this year we'll do as much as 50,000 acres and if we can continue at that pace we'll make progress here. >> we appreciate your support on that. let's switch gears and talk about tax report. takes a lot of leadership and commitment to get a piece of legislation through that big. can you talk about your direction there?
>> that's a big one. we hope to get started as soon as we get back to washington. if we want to be competitive globally. talked about the importance of trade but if we want to be competitive globally we have to have a lower corporate tax rate. we're about the highest in the world and that's priority one and every proposal we've seen does lower it. we have been pleased that they have abandoned this border tax. anything is not good in this environment. we have to be competitive and should not put up new barriers to trade so we're moving away from that and that's a good thing. i know the secretary is talking about the house and it looks as if the and that's certainly what
i would like to see. heavy lift. no doubt. every tax credit and desuggestion and tax earmark it all there's a constituency for all of that out there and believe they come and lobby hard so it's not going to be easy by any stretch. but with healthcare it's different. it's personal to individuals and families in away that tax reform is not. when you look at the stock market and what it's done and the economy and hiring and unemployment rate i think that it is baked in that we're going to do tax reform and if we don't come through it's going to be a
big blow to the economy so we're filling the pressure and need to on this. >> you mentionedle healthcare and clearly there's been a lot of controversy on the strategy. talk about your direction and your path forward on that. >> sure. >> this morning in arizona about 200,000 families woke up without health insurance and they'll pay more than 183,000 will pay the fine but they can't afford the insurance. they pay the fine and still don't have insurance. you have an even greater number that have insurance.
they can't use it. when i go to the work out center someone will give me their obamacare horror story. here's what they're deductible is. i have a friend saying that he's pay g paying 1500 dollar premium every month when you total the deductibles for the family it goes to nearly and you combine that with a premium he pays more than $30,000 out of pocket before the first insurance dollar kicks in and that's not a situation that can continue and looking out in this room. i am certain that many opportunity of you have similar. small business in particular. 70 percent covered by traditional employer but those that start a small business are socked and hit hard. so arizona has that.
we're ground zero for the failure or exchange. 14 counties have one insurer. if every county the average premium for a family of four on the exchange is more costly than their mortgage and in a couple of counties it's double the cost of their mortgage. that's not sustainable and or know sow in the is an expansion so 28 percent of the population covered by our version of medicaid in some it's up over 60 percent and that is important. it has to be sustainable. i've always been let's not pull the rug out from under people that have insurance now. that's what obamacare did in a big way. a lot of people lost their insurance when obamacare came
along and we don't want to repeat that and also you can't pull the rug out from under them either and you have to have a situation where that system is sustainable. don't take insurance away from people that have it now and make sure the system we have is sustainable. when you look at the medicaid expansion some of it is medical inflation plus one or two depending on the population. we have to find a way to make that sustainable for the long-term. i would have hoped we could have kept the reform effort alive. we were not able to but i hope that we can as senator mccain has pushed for over and over get back to regular order and let's
put it back in the committee to see if we can find a fix. >> thank you. this doesn't seem to be an environment where compromise and regular order prevails easily. how do we get there from here? >> i don't think we have a choice. the challenges that face us big ones and the biggest by far is our looming debt and deficit. we have a debt of 20 trillion dollars and a deficit that's about 600 billion now and over the next decade we'll get back over a trillion dollars a year. that is not sustainable. it's simply not. at some point i fear the financial markets we'll wake up one morning and the markets will decide we're not such a good bet and when that happens it takes decades generations to grow out of it chlt.
japan. greece and others are finding out. i want to fix this kind of thing before we get there. you can only do that if you work across the aisle if you look at a good budget agreement that has put us on a more sustainable path with regard to social security or medicare or entitlement programs it happened when republicans and democrats sat down together and said let's share the political risk because when one party controls whether republicans or democrats that party will never take the chance because midterm elections are never more than two years away and so i think with this sorry trillion and the in ability to compromise it is in my view as a conservative pre vending us from
achieving conservative ends. we have to get away from the notion that it's a bad thing to work across the aisle. it's disheartening to be in that situation where you're attacked if you need a bipartisan solution for something. >> it's far more than a physical and economic issue but a world reputation issue and national security issue and your work on the foreign relations committee you're seeing that now. >> you bet. with regard to our standing in the world and these challenges that we face and they are big. i mean north korea is most urgent and that's a big problem. i think that our allies need to know that we are there. that we're steady that we are predictable. that's what in my view a
conservative is. nothing else then a conservative is maybe boaring but at least predictable and sober in use of diplomacy and force and our allies need to do that and we need to recognized a ver theirs as well and we need to recognize them for what they look to achieve. russia did try to intervene in our elections. where they were successful or not we'll leave to it other but they certainly tried and we ought to want to know what they did. and ought to make sure it doesn't happen again here or in other countries as well but we have big challenges around the world on the security front trade front certainly with nuclear weapons and proliferation that we need to make sure that we lead as we have in the past. >> let's talk for a minute about
infrastructure that was a big priority for both parties and this year it's important to all of the chambers and the cities, there's been some discussion and ideas raised about repealing tax-exempt status and municipal bonds and that's clearly important to municipalities and impacts the cost of citizens can you talk about your direction or view on infrastructure proposals out there today? >> well obviously country is in need of an infrastructure boost. there's a lot of discussion on how we fund that. that's obviously the big question. i have supported the tax holiday with repatrioted assets to devote a portion of that to infrastructure. those discussions are continuing. others want to lay claim on that to buy down the rate further and that's a goal as well but we
need a boost and the question always is for a state like arizona do we farewell with gas tax and other moneys that go to the federal government and come back to arizona. one thing i always tried to do is make sure that every dollar we sent from arizona that we get back in a way that we can fully utilize it and part of the problem is when federal money comes back it's tied up with regard to federal mandates and regulations that decrease the value of that money when arizona goes to build out infrastructure. that's why project labor agreements that the government is neutral with regard to project labor agreements and davis bacon requirements.
we ought to get rid of requirement s requirements as it pertains because that dries up the cost and means that arizona can build a lot less than they would have otherwise so there are things on the regulatory front to make sure our spending goes further but with regard to what the infrastructure package contained in the end that's still being discussed the infrastructure and the administration had a couple of weeks ago but there may be a big package with regard to tax reform that includes the infrastructure lerment. sometimes that's a way to get more votes to include infrastructure spending. it's going to be a busy fall in that regard. >> we started out the morning with questions from audience and
it didn't go quite as planned but maybe we'll try it again. >> let me say there was an element i want to address. people say i know you have had your disagreements with the administration but there are things you agree with? yes there are. the president a point and great supreme court justice and kneel gorsuch i think is a great thing. the president has put together a national security team that's a good one. i sleep better knows mattis is in charge and tillerson at the state. there's been a lot done and particularly arizona as we know is about 85 percent publically owned in terms of land mass and
that makes it difficult when the land is owned by the state of the federal government that also means when the federal government takes actions whether power generation issues or land-use it has an outside impact on arizona. we want to make our the federal government is right sizing the regulations and not one size fits all. and i've sensed you know the situation is better in that regard. we're working now with e.p.a. in ways we have not before. dust storms in arizona that the epa can't recognize that arizona has periodic storms that have nothing to do with development here they just have been here
for amy len you. those the administration has been more responsive to the state's concerns and i think that's a good thing. >> let's take a couple of questions from folks. [inaudible] >> i talked to bob about that. chairman of the former relations committee and when we have big defense sales in certain countries the committee wants to make sure there's not implications we don't know
about. i know bob is in favor of trade and sales and so i'll have to check with him and see what this about but i'm confident that we can work past it and countries and thoughtful man. so i'll talk to him. >> questions from group? >> well thank you. certainly identified problem that i think all of us are learning a lot more about in the past couple of years and in rural communities in every state but particularly hard hit in
ohio and new hampshire and other state but arizona is not immune at all and we have our own issues there and the government has taken action in that regard. that is an area in later iteration of the healthcare reform that we were discussing there was a significant amount of vermont so i think the congress is coming to grips with what we need to do in that regard in terms of treatment. so i'm hopeful we'll get there but it is a big issue and thank you for raising it. >> i don't think there's a state in the country not impacted by it right now. additional questions for the senator? there's a mic coming. >> your lead leaders in senate and your work. i know you regularly travel the
state and were recently visiting with ranchers and property owners and can you share what you're hearing and what any future action on border security and those issues may be? >> thank you. i was in a week past. talk about beautiful and green here it's gorgeous down south and had a good year and the rankers are happy in that regard and also that boarder crossings are down significantly. it's been a trend that has been over in the past is several years but it settled the lowest left at about 30 years right now due to a number of factors. the biggest of which is the economy particularly in mexico is doing well largely because of nafta. one of the big factors is nafta and that's one of the concerns that i have about where we're going on trade.
the other implications that it has on boarder security but we in the bipartisan immigration bill we passed 2013 in the senate that didn't go anywhere in the house there was a significant border vermonts and there are areas where we need better walls or fences there's some areas and i can tell you they don't lend ourselves to a wall or fence or any barrier but are best dealt with surveillance and so when people talk about one solution on the border they haven't traveled the border. and when you talk to the ranchers there you have a lot of different issues that come up all the time if you go down a
few counties it's a watershed and the water flows north and not south and so you can't have a wall. there's good local cooperation and i tell you the border sheriff's and sheriff damages in another county. we have good cooperation and it's bore fruits there and we're in a better situation on the border than we've been in quite a while. we just have to build on those improvements and recognize that any event in anyway if mexico
select as leftist president that might change the trajectory of government there in terms of privatization and trade. and then we would face pressure again. that's one big concern i have about not just the policy we have with mexico but the rhetoric we have with mexico. if we chin up anti-american sentiment in mexico it could lead to or aid the election of a leftist government there that would not be to our benefit and but the border there's better cooperation. we have continuing infrastructure improvements. i traveled with dan bell a rancher two weeks ago on his property and the new
infrastructure has improved significantly in terms of crossing but you still have very few people coming to work. migrate traffic across the border but you still have those carrying drugs and we have to be concerned with that's a the prospect of terrorism. used to be in i talked about in the book and in an op-ed of the situation in the 70's when i was back on the ranch and we employed labor that came across the border there was no border at that time. it was a different time and age. we didn't have the terrorism worrys or drugs worries that we have today and you can't have the situation we had back then now but thanks for the question it's a better situation but we have to remain vigilant and make
sure we have border security. >> we'll go back. let me ask you just one. cuba you have put a lot of time in improving our relationships with cuba and has been successful we have seen some discussion. would you like to talk about that? >> felt if we were to make the castro brothers deal with spring break once or twice. that would serve them right and then people ask why a senator from arizona or a congressman was involved in cuba policy and i said i took a pole in my district and both of them said move ahead. we like what you're doing. but i've always felt americans should have the ability to travel where i that want unless there is an international security reason not to and there was not for a long time in fact,
all indications pointed that cuba would be in a better situation. the cuban people if we allowed travel. let me just say i didn't often agree with the obama administration on foreign policy but president obama did the right thing in 2010 allowing cuban americans travel as much as they want with no restrictions. before that if you were a cuban american in miami and your mother and father were in havana and your father died you would have to decide do i go to his funeral or will my mother die within three years because i can only travel once in three years. what an awful thing we did to cuban american families and that was lifted and they started travel. that happened coincide in a to work in the private sector in
cuba and so the travel of cuban americans and increased remittences that president obama allowed seed capital for cuban entrepreneurs and over a period of five years you went from almost 0 private sector employment to now 25% of the workforce in cuba is employed in the private sector. running bed and breakfasts. private restaurants and taxi cab services and beauty salons and they're making good money by the standards of what people working for the government in cuba are. the average waiter in a restaurant earns $50.00 a dayna government restaurant next door 20 bucks a month. and that is changing the dynamic politically giving them more economic freedom certainly but it gives them more political independence from their
government as well and that's a good thing and so the cuban people are better off and i'm proud of the role i've been able to play in forwards that. one of the best experiences i had was i was asked to go to cuba in september of 14 to participate in a cold war era spice swap if you've seen bridge of spies this was something similar. but when we decided to change the dynamic in cuba there were issues with detainees and spice we had to solve and so i was asked if i traveled to cuba on a sensitive mission and not tell my wife or staff where i was going and that's why i joined - go to an island somewhere that's the kind of thing i liked. >> do they give you dark glass?
>> none of that. but we went to andrews air force base at 5:00 am and senator le hey and we flew to cuba to pick up allen gross an american that had been held for five years and i visited him in prison before and he was about to take his own life unless he was released he said. there were three cuban spies in our jails and they got on a plain and we headed back to the united states. the pilot came on the intercom and said we've entered u.s. air space and allen cheered and breathed and said now i know i'm free and it was just a wonderful
remind over what it means to been american where just 90 miles from our shore you can have a communist socialist government that imprisons people that protest and want freedom. just a reminder of what this country means and it was a great experience. one of the best in congress. >> what a wonderful story. i think we had another question back here or did earlier? >> i put him to sleep with that story. >> you did answer my question on immigration before but i'm going to ask another one. can you comment on the policy of energy independence. >> i'm in a condition i think we are now that we never thought we'd be in. srp certainly recognizes that the abundance in, well the
technology that's allows us to extract natural gas and allow secure sources for the foreseeable future and allowed us to not only have a secure energy future and be more independent of countries we'd like to be from but a cleaner energy future as well. we've been able to do significantly more than we thought we would have with regard to moving away from dirty fossil fuels into a cleaner environment so it's a good sign. i'm in favor of certainly keystone and what we can do to be energy independent. we're closer to that goal than we thought we would be a few years ago. and it also makes a difference if we can export natural gas as well to europe to central
european countries. to change the geo-political equation there as well with russia. so we're russia. so we're in a better situation and i think that this new federal lands and also coal deposits to make sure we have an energy policy that makes sense and increases independence. >> thank you. any further questions from crowd? crowd? >> thank you as you know senator mccain we're fortunate to have
the senator of the arms committee and that's an area he's focused on. we're concerned about budgets making sure we have the right balance and a long-term plan to make sure that we're defended and that really is going to depend on making better use of resources we have already and that can only be done if we have reform and acquisition and we have to ensure that individuals in small in particular have access to these contracts. i know senator mccain will work on that. it's a big important point. particularly for arizona. we have neuro space and defense related industries that can relate to that. >> one more question. i don't want to keep anybody
from watching the eclipse today or be accused of that. >> thank you i represent a small university and work with a lot of young people and the issue of civility is a topic that comes up. and we encourage our students to build community and be part of the community you have to interact with people in a civil way and i think that's what you're promoting and i wonder if you can speak to the cause of the seeming instability we have in public service right now and what good solutions might be so we can work together to move things forward? >> thank you and it is a big part of the book. i happened to be at the baseball practice for the congressional
baseball game when the shooter was there and i just included a paragraph about that and i thought when that shooter opened fire on the field and seeing but let's bounce off the gravel around the infield. i just the thought came to me and stayed with me for a while. us? why? who could look out at field of middle age members of congress playing baseball and see the enemy. it just is something that we've got to work on in a big way. i mentioned in the book the experience of when gabby giffords was shot in tucson. i mentioned that you know a year after she was shot she had come to return to the house and was the state of union right at that
time. we left an empty seat for her just a few days after she was shot so she returned and it was a big deal so i sat next to her and she wasn't able to stand when she wanted to when the president, president obama would have an applause line all the democrats would stand and i mentioned in the book i would help her up and that left me standing. i started to get texts from irate republicans saying why are you standing? and that's when i really thought this is gone far too far. we have got to come to a place where we don't look at other americans as our enemies and no matter how you know fierce a debate can be and i'm a fierce partisan on some issues. you can have a debate but it can
get ugly and we have to get away from calling our opponents losers and clowns and we have to work with them on the big issues so i am very concerned about it. >> thank you for the question. that's a good one to wrap up on. clearly if we're going to return to principal as the senator says that starts with informed discourse and that's what the meetings are about and the sections to have good conversation and questions and good response ss so we thank you for being here. i want to give you an opportunity if there's something we did not include. >> thank everyone in the chambers as i mentioned particularly on the trade issue. you know sometimes trade never
fares well. it's always interesting for one to say that's because of a bad trade agreement or the chinese took your job or the mexicans took your job but in arizona we have groups like east valley chambers and other groups that talk about the value of trade and population understands it and i applaud you for that. it makes it easier for politicians to do the right thing. and making it easier for us so i want to thank you for that. >> thank you and before we break i want to thank you for the support from your staff as well. we appreciate working with your staff. let me on behalf of the other sponsors in the chambers thank everybody for participating today and please join me in thanking the senator for being here.
here. >> president trump held a rally in the home state of arizona this week and we talked about his performance there and the events in charlottesville virginia on washington journal. >> we want to welcome back matt the chair of the american conservative union. good friday morning and thanks for being with us. >> good to be with you steve but it's not good friday. >> let me begin with this sentence and finish it if you would. the state of the republican party between the president and governments is what? >> unchartered. never elected a president with such shallow root was party.