a hospital bed literally had no password. you could make the pump do whatever you want, including administering high rates of drugs. we were able to demonstrate that to folks like the fda. they look at these vulnerabilities and were pretty appalled as well. as long as these systems use proper encryption, they can secure it correctly. not every manufacturer does it correctly, so we are helping -- we are working with the manufacturers to help them make their systems more secure. >> aaron ralph, fbi special agent in charge of the las vegas division. >> we want to make sure the fbi is seen as a partner in the industry, a partner in protecting people. we want to understand what is important to them. >> watch "the communicators"

tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2. the candidates for new jersey governor spoke recently at a forum in newark to discuss marijuana,in -- immigration, property taxes, and the trump presidency. duringre each interview a program called "new jersey's next governor." ♪ steve: welcome to "new jersey's next governor." i am steve adubato. for the next hour, i will sit with the to be a major party candidates for governor in new

jersey. broadcast is being seen across a number of networks. whyy, and we are also being heard on the radio. you can also catch us on @steveadubatophd. thewe are seeing across country on a c-span. right now, we are joined by the republican candidate for governor, lieutenant governor kim guadagno. and we will be joined by the democratic candidate for governor, phil murphy, in a minute. first, we have a report from our partners. guadagno defeated a strong republican candidate to become the nominee. for nearly eight years, she has been the lieutenant governor. before that, she was monmouth county sheriff.

she is running on a plan to cut property taxes. her so-called circuit-breaker plan would cap the school portion of a homeowner's tax plan at 5% of income. savings will be $800 per homeowner, says what donna - - guadagno. her opponent questions where that money would come from. she says $250 million would come from overfunded school districts. guadagno is also running on the idea of electing the state attorney general instead of it being a gubernatorial candidate. carlos rendo would be her lieutenant governor running mate. her strategy is to hammer home the taxes and hope it does for

her what it did for christie eight years ago. hercules heal is her closeness to chris christie, who has become terribly unpopular. she has tried to separate on him on issues like the state gas tax hike, but she was his number two, and democrat will not let voters ignore that. with donald trump also unpopular in new jersey, it is a tough climate for republicans. by the way, we had thousands of questions that came to us from -- on a variety of forms. property taxes. describe your plan in more detail. lt. gov. guadagno: the number one problem in new jersey is property taxes. i can go to anyone in the state and ask people what the number one problem they have, and it is property taxes. they cannot afford to live in

new jersey. we need to address the number one problem on their minds. my property tax plan would three --p from property taxes at 5% of household income. steve: what happens if it goes over? lt. gov. guadagno: what goes over? steve: if it goes over that amount? i want to understand something. it caps the increase? lt. gov. guadagno: no. you never a more than 5% of your income on property taxes. steve: what is a locality says we need more for schools, transportation? lt. gov. guadagno: the school gets reimbursed. they sent a bill to trenton, and trenton reimburses. for the difference in the amount. i defy anybody who shows me any information that says anything different. people cannot afford to live here anymore. i have been here for eight

years. ringing businesses here for eight years. -- bringing businesses here for eight years. the biggest problem i hear from people is that they cannot afford to live here anymore. when they get to be my age, they start to plan on how they will move out of new jersey. this average savings of $800 per year will allow them to stay here. for philnot be a lot murphy, who is a millionaire, but for the people i have met, it is a lot of money. steve: let's talk about school funding. the school funding issue, from the state money to local school dishes, has to do with property taxes. lt. gov. guadagno: the school funding plan starts with a 5% of household income. we will help the people who need the most help now.

we will save everybody about $800 of school property taxes right now am of the worst day we walk into tax -- office. we pulled a page out of a democrat playbook in massachusetts and new england. it is pretty simple. make sure we are getting our money's worth. let's make sure every penny we spend is being spent for the kids, getting them an efficient education. i have not heard anything from phil murphy except that he will fully fund the school funding formula. cans a great idea if you afford it. the question is how do you afford all of the things though murphy has -- phil murphy has promised? everybody i know what love to have free pre-k. ns to go pay for my so to pre-k. because i could afford it, it was great. butybody wants free pre-k, they cannot afford it. steve: what about people who cannot afford that pre-k?

and we know how important pre-k is to a child's development. lt. gov. guadagno: we are already funding it. we had pilot programs in place for years. we just added more money to it. is aillion dollars -- it start. the question is the question of priorities. if you make new jersey more affordable by keeping taxes low, more people would be able to stay here, get that her jobs here, and be able to afford here -- living here. steve: we are involved in an initiative that tries to raise awareness around issues and challenges that babies and infants are facing, called right from the start. is there more state funding reimbursing childcare centers? from a public policy point of view, we have had legislators coming out saying we do not find enough to those folks in terms of reimbursement for child care at that age. lt. gov. guadagno: i do not

disagree. as a working mom, i have to sometimes make a decision that, if my babysitter did not show up, do i go to work or does my husband go to work? working mothers need affordable, reliable daycare. one of the ways we do that is gave tax credits. we have possible spending programs. i took advantage of one. it saved me money over time. but we need to do editor make sure our working mothers have what they need. one of the ways to do it is make sure they can afford to pay their taxes. it all comes back to the same issue. this election will be a referendum on taxes. steve: property taxes, income taxes? lt. gov. guadagno: taxes, taxes, taxes. will murphy promised an additional $5 billion to spending. we added it up on our website, and the other day, he added another $200 million or $400 million because his plan for

free college education keeps going up and up. spendeve he is going to more. people in new jersey understand one -- their pocketbook. it is not a republican issue or democrat issue. it is an issue of whether or not they can stay here, keep a roof over their heads and food on their table. steve: by the way, ambassador murphy will join us in the other half hour of this program, and he will have an opportunity not just to defend himself but make his case. in a very civil discourse. by the way, your family, described it. lt. gov. guadagno: my family is fabulous. i moved to new jersey after moving all around the country, because my husband's family was born and raised here. i know what happens if you lose your job. i know what happens to the

family, what happens to community. we need to make sure families stay together and stay in new jersey. the only way to make sure that happens, frankly, is with lower property taxes in new jersey. i am a proud first lieutenant in the air force. the ultimate public school education in the u.s. is the air force. the second child is about to graduate from college. he is finishing his ear. he already has a job, going to work in the city. and the last child is 17. he is the ultimate equalizer. heaps your feet planted on the ground. steve: hardest job in the world, being mom or governor? lt. gov. guadagno: i will tell you the hardest job is being a mother. i am a working mom. they do not care what you do during the day. their laundry needs to be done, close need to be folded, food needs to be on the table. steve: being a dad is challenging as well, but point well taken. how about this -- pensions.

had a lot of conversations about public employee pensions. these questions came from njtv, everyone --by the way, thanks folks who follow us on twitter. people ask how would you deal with, salt, improve the pension crisis in new jersey? lt. gov. guadagno: first thing i would do is treat it honestly. anybody who says this tension is not broken is lying to you. anybody who says they can fully fund pensions in new jersey is lying to you. you can sit down with -- steve: the new jersey education association. lt. gov. guadagno: thank you. hiring teachers right now and telling them their pensions will

not either -- we need to sit down and talk thoughtfully and honestly about it. i think we also have to separate things out. law enforcement pensions are almost fully funded. steve: why separate them from teachers? lt. gov. guadagno: because teachers and syndication -- cwa are a little less funded. steve: medications workers of america -- communications workers of america. lt. gov. guadagno: right. so we need to separate them out. it is their pension. they should manage it the way they want to. as long as taxpayers are not on the for this. and i told this to them when i went to talk to them indoors and me for governor. i said let's sit and talk about this problem and fix it once and for all. they endorsed phil murphy before they talked to me. steve: that is their right. said, they are an

underwriter of our programming here, public broadcasting. but i want to clarify there has been a commitment about the state fully funding the tension situation. and underfunding it for years and years. governor christie has spent more than many governors, but they are way behind and still underfunded. what is wrong with saying the state will do its job? lt. gov. guadagno: the state should do its job. the problem is playing for -- paying for it. there are $500 million in pension payment. $15 billion. we have -- steve: as a whole? we make auadagno: if full pension claimant next year, it is $5 billion for the pension. another $10 billion for the -- by the way, we are in the hole. what happens if it does not get resolved? lt. gov. guadagno: it is going

to be resolved. that is what it is going to be resolved. steve: what would you do? lt. gov. guadagno: i would negotiate like management should negotiate. for example, pension reform packets. take a look at it. it is online. you can get it. pensionl phil murphy's package, and take some of those regulations. steve: you say we are going to sit and negotiate -- that is great. one concrete idea that would improve the situation? lt. gov. guadagno: go to generics on the health care side. steve: instead of prescription drugs? lt. gov. guadagno: right. old,ad of having the platinum standard for health care benefits, let the labor union take a look at where they could find savings in health care. i am told, and the burn commission says, we could save $2 billion. take that $2 billion and put it in pension. steve: if you want to engage the within a governor, you can find her website. this is a one hour special we

are doing on new jersey's next governor. the lieutenant governor is here now. her democratic opponent, vassar phil murphy, is going to be here as well. we are on a variety of pbs stations, on the radio or -- radar. and also nationally on c-span. a couple of other topics. health care. who knows what is going to go on in washington as it relates to the repeal of obamacare, the photo care act. where do you see new jersey right now in the way we are providing health care for those who need it most? and to what degree are you concerned about the president continuing on this track to repeal and replace obamacare? lt. gov. guadagno: i am very concerned about where we are going in the future. of course i am. there has been discussion about pulling the rug out for people who rely on that insurance. a couple years ago, when we

agreed to the waiver, we signed up 532,000 more people to the affordable care act. we cannot pull the rug out from underneath them. i am confident people are working in good faith to make sure that our 533,000 additional insurers will get the insurance they need, that they will have the existing coverage, pretesting condition coverage, and also afford to pick their , make an affordable plan. we need to do that. that is where we need to go to our congressman. make sure they do that in washington. and this is not the president. it is everybody. steve: republicans in congress. lt. gov. guadagno: right. balanced government can sometimes be a problem. jersey, if we do not have a republican governor, we will not have a balanced government. we will have in ballast government. the legislature in charge -- in

the charge of the democrats and the charge ofn democrats, we will not have a balanced government. steve: you do not think it will produce gridlock? lt. gov. guadagno: in new jersey, i do not think it has produced gridlock. steve: people will decide. here is an interesting issue connected to that. donald trump. a few months ago, we had an interesting conversation. your views, lieutenant governor, on the president's presidency and how well he is doing. lt. gov. guadagno: i am looking at how washington impacts new jersey. a governor from new jersey will have to go to washington and work with that president. from that point of view, we have

one trillion reasons to get along with donald trump, meaning the money he has promised to put in infrastructure. we need to be more business friendly, not just in new jersey but also nationally. we need to be more competitive. of what -- i like some i am seeing in terms of taxes. i would not like to see anything that would hurt new jersey. but the fact that we are changing our tax structure -- anything that helps grow our economy here in new jersey, anything this president does that helps the people of new jersey, i will fight for. steve: as relates to daca, these dreamers -- there are 22,000 new jersey residents. some are very young, some are 22, 20 4 -- the president saying at first, they have to go. we do not know where that will go. where do you think that should

go? lt. gov. guadagno: we should honor the deal we made with a dreamers. we cannot and should not take out -- steve: sorry for interrupting. why is there even discussion about that? lt. gov. guadagno: i do not know. you will have to ask washington. steve: it is not washington. it is the white house. lt. gov. guadagno: i think it is washington. both sides. immigration is a problem on the federal side that has not been fixed in years because, well beyond this president and the president before that, i think it is a problem that needs to be fixed. all of us have to go to our congressional leaders and tell them what i have said. the 20,000 or so dreamers in new jersey -- we will not destroy families in new jersey. they did not have a choice in coming to new jersey. i do not think the right word is "save," but the problem needs to be addressed in washington -- steve: the immigration issue. what about the rule of law --

they are not supposed to be there. rule of law, you said. and you know law better than most. lt. gov. guadagno: i have said it many times. 20,000 people in new jersey who came here as a family member, whether it was at two or now that they are 40, that we will not tear apart. we will never advocate for that kind of jacoby and -- draconian response. are 800,000e leverages, because that is the number across the country, for congress, democrats and republicans alike, to deal with this problem. that is the leverage we need to finally deal with this problem. why should people be worried about whether they will be deported or not if we can fix it? lt. gov. guadagno: i choose to believe that we will fix it, because lots of people here, not just in new jersey.

-- the question kept coming up. sanctuary cities. where is the lieutenant governor on sanctuary cities? lt. gov. guadagno: very clear. i am a former federal and state law enforcement official. a former sheriff. i believe sanctuary states are bad for law enforcement. my opponent has said he wants century states. steve: what is wrong with that? lt. gov. guadagno: it puts law enforcement at risk. it is not going to stop federal immigration officers from coming in and enforcing federal law. this is where my legal background comes in, i suppose. we do not have the authority to stop immigration officials from coming in and doing whatever federal law allows them to do.

all it does is but a target on the backs of the people in new jersey who believe that they are being protected because of sanctuary cities or states. secondly, a law enforcement officer is at risk. it is a terrible policy. if you want to fix immigration, go to washington and fix the immigration problem. if we do not, we are putting everyone at risk. the people who will be led to believe they are safe in new jersey as a result of a sanctuary state, and law enforcement. the one that scares me is law enforcement officials. what you are saying is local law enforcement officials will not provide that up for other law enforcement officials. unacceptable. steve: to be clear, we will have ambassador phil murphy, the other part of this one hour special. how about this. legalizing marijuana? this question came particularly

from nj.com. lt. gov. guadagno: the only explanation i have had from phil murphy about why we need to legalize marijuana is to generate revenue. i can think of any number of ways to generate revenue that will not in legalizing marijuana and putting a whole generation of children at risk. i have a 17-year-old sunday. does saying that he marijuana, but if we legalize marijuana, he will have the opportunity. i do not want to give him the opportunity. if there is a risk that marijuana is a gateway drug, i think we can find other ways to generate revenue. to to legalize marijuana balance the budget, pay for the $75 billion worth of extra spending will murphy once -- w ants to do -- steve: who says that his first?

a lot of other states have done it, it could potentially bring in revenue? lt. gov. guadagno: phil murphy said it. steve: he said first, like that was the primary part? lt. gov. guadagno: ask him in half an hour. you will see. he thinks one of the ways to balance this budget and pay for these things he has promised, all of the people in the primary, is to legalize marijuana. i say we stopped the state house renovation -- steve: the one the governor wants? lt. gov. guadagno: that is a $300 million price tag right there. steve: you disagree with the governor on that? lt. gov. guadagno: yes. something about transportation, because you drive on the roads of new jersey. we are congested. we have problems. can i ask you a question -- i will ask you a question. the question that came in was the port authority of new york

and new jersey -- how much impact does it play on our life and what would you do, because the governors of both states -- a big impact on the port authority in our lives. what would you do differently? lt. gov. guadagno: i would continue to get new jersey's fair share of what is going on. if we had not put $1 billion of port authority money into the beyond bridge and engineering feat of -- it really was amazing to see the bridge raised high enough to bring in super tankers. if new jersey had not fought to get the $1 billion to raise that ridge, the port would have been closed. steve: by the way, the port runs that bridge. that is why it is an issue. so you are saying new jersey gets the shaft? lt. gov. guadagno: i am saying we need to continue to fight to get our fair share. if there is not a strong governor who understands the need to do something like raise

the bridge so we can continue to bring in panama canal supertankers like you saw last week, we are going to lose an entire ecosystem. we cannot afford to do that. i do not think there is a lot of debate on that one. i think any governor in new jersey has to pay close attention to making sure the money that goes to the port authority is spent on pork projects or projects that have to do with transportation and new jersey gets its fair share. steve: yes or no on the way tunnel? lt. gov. guadagno: absolutely. steve: critically important? lt. gov. guadagno: yes. steve: i want to thank everyone for the questions you posed. smart, thoughtful, making our job easy. the biggest reason why your governorship would be different than your opponent if you are elected is? lt. gov. guadagno: taxes. steve: does it go back to taxes? lt. gov. guadagno: taxes.

this is a referendum on taxes. if you want a goldman sachs millionaire who has promised to raise your taxes, vote for phil murphy. i am a working mom, a former sheriff, who has created jobs in this state the last eight years, who understands that if we increase taxes on the most tax people in new jersey, those taxes will go away. i have pledged not to run again if i do not lower taxes. steve: i think lieutenant governor kim guadagno for joining us. all the best to you and your family. he will be -- we will be back right after this with ill murphy -- phil murphy. onlineness -- visit us at steve adubato.org.

steve: welcome back to "new jersey's next governor." there now joined by democratic candidate for governor, ambassador phil murphy. range of go to a whole questions, we had a brief report from our partners, njtv. >> phil murphy has been running hard for governor for nearly the years. he defeated three substantial democrats in the primary. his career was mostly spent at goldman sachs, which made him wealthy. poured $20 million of his money into the primary but is taking public money for the general election. he spent years as ambassador to germany under president obama. he also served as democratic national finance chair and a board member of the naacp. murphy is a aggressive. he would hike the minimum wage,

legalize marijuana, promote affordable housing, and create a public bank that would bring bring statefunds -- held funds elsewhere here. -- hiking the tax on income over $1 million, or hundred million from closing corporate loopholes, and $300 million from taxing marijuana sales. tohas talked about a new tax support transportation, but without specifics. assemblywoman sheila oliver to be his lieutenant governor running mate. his strategy is to campaign vigorously and run out the clock. most polls have him in the lead by double digits. his achilles' heel is the 23 years he spent at goldman sachs and the possibility that voters are resentful of wall street millionaires. steve: we want to thank our

partner of the statehouse press corps and our partners at njtv news. we are seeing nationally on c-span and also on public ontions wnet, whyy, facebook, etc. let's get to the issue of taxes. this $1.3 billion in new taxes. break that down for us, particularly the part that helps property taxpayers. amb. murphy: we have to understand what the state of the state is. this is among the weakest economies in the united states. we have in down graded 11 straight times. household income has not only lagged of the years, it has gone down. we need a stronger and fairer economy that works for all. part of that is making sure the folks who can afford it step up and have tax fairness.

that is the wealthiest of owners. we have some weight corporate loopholes we can close. we can legalize, we think responsibly, marijuana. for more importantly, we need to reprioritize what we are already spending. for instance, we have put out over $8 billion in corporate tax break for large corporations. at the same time, we have underfunded public education by $9 billion. we have canceled big infrastructure projects and underfunded others. we reduced state nj transit by 90%. it is not just a question of where can we get more revenue, it is how do we reprioritize what we are spending? in addition to that, let's grow the economy again. we have left billions of dollars of economic activity on the table the last seven and a half

years. there is no reason we cannot rebuild -- reboot those economies we used to dominate. steve: these questions came from from fios, but the marijuana question. why are you so confident we can legalize it, control it, manage it, and not promote any new problems as relates to drugs? the first lens, the most important one, is the social justice lens. we have the largest white-nonwhite gap of those incarcerated in new jersey. there are many reasons, but the low priority drug crimes. steve: is of the primary reason? amb. murphy: no.

it is a social justice reason. we have enormous inequity in the state. it is part of comprehensive criminal justice reform. the second point i would make is that i am glad we are not the first state we are doing it. before uses have on and have done some things right, something's wrong. steve: what have we learned? amb. murphy: we learned distribution issues, learned its impact on medical marijuana, which this demonstration has gummed up with folks who death -- desperately need access. you have colorado and now nevada, washington, oregon -- we are studying those examples to make sure we do it right. just doing it is not enough. doing it right is important. steve: go back to the tax issue. what is fascinating to us -- again, insider nj. the issue came from there, fios, facebook, my twitter. by the way, people have been great with questions.

question is interesting. it has to do with your tax policy. some on both -- of those sites have asked if you raise taxes on the wealthiest new jerseyans -- by the way, how do you define that? amb. murphy: millionaires and up. steve: are you afraid of losing those folks who say i do not want to be there because i am getting overtaxed and then lose all of our tax revenue? amb. murphy: you want a state that is welcoming to all folks. we are the most diverse state in the nation. folks over the last seven and a half plus years, with all respect to the property tax cap, property taxes are up. employee-based health care premiums are over 40%. say wait afully minute, where is all this money going? pull out your property tax bill and look at

what portion of that is public education. that has been underfunded. steve: would you fully fund -- i do not want to get into the weeds. go to the ambassador's website to find out about his plan. but would you fully fund based on what the state formulas that is supposed to be there? and how do we afford that? amb. murphy: we would. let's step back and say what does that mean? there is one school funding formula in our state that has been blessed by the supreme court, i believe in 2008. it was viewed as a national model, because it away from money chasing blocks, or districts -- steve: urban districts. amb. murphy: yes. instead asking kids, recognizing not every kid is born with the same circumstances or luck. what household is yours like? do you have special education needs, etc.?

bill that from the bottom up. that is a smart way to approach hyundai public education. steve: with those come from your tax -- amb. murphy: that is a big part of where. not just from -- you mentioned $1.3 million. it is a $35 billion budget. it is not just where revenues are coming from as listed, it is what are you doing to reprioritize kids. steve: is there an area where you say, you know what, we do not really need to be spending the way we are spending? reprioritizing is one ring. but specifically. amb. murphy: i will give you a few that come to mind. one is the corporate tax breaks. we are sending them out at a rate of many hundreds of millions of dollars a year. steve: what about people who say we would not get them otherwise if we did not do that? amb. murphy: we have to be

smarter about that. should tax incentives be part of the package, yes. but this administration has used them as one blonde -- one b lunt instrument. let's be smarter. we are throwing hundreds of millions of dollars out there, and we are not enforcing it. deals -- we need to be smarter about that. we have out of network health care loopholes that are causing individuals and the state a kind of money. we have hedge funds managing our pension assets and charging is huge fees. steve: are we getting the shaft? amb. murphy: i think we are. steve: how would you change those deals? amb. murphy: i would get out of hedge funds managing pensions. when that asset class was first born, they charged an arm and a leg, but they returned a lot. big profit.

today, they still charge an arm and a leg, but profits have gone away. this is not a passing phase. a long-term trend. there are a lot smarter ways to manage your pension assets that are cheaper. the state of nevada, the city of new york are doing it, there is no reason we should not. steve: i want to ask you a question. your family. who is your family? can you give me the "reader's digest" version? amb. murphy: i am married tammy murphy 20 years. she is my partner in everything. she is out there as hard as i am every single day. we are blessed with four children. josh is a sophomore in college. fromis taking a gap year

college. charlie is a junior in high school. sam is a freshman. we also have three dogs and a bird. steve: a busy household. amb. murphy: busy and noisy. steve: speaking of young children, we have an initiative that deals with infants and babies and the kinds of things that state projects can do. what, if anything, can the state do as it relates to those babies and infants, particularly as it relates to child care? amb. murphy: we have stood for a couple things. one is we have stood for a child independent -- child dependent care tax credit, which allows folks to get a bigger tax credit to allow them to go out and work and feel like they can get someone to take care of their kids. right now, we have too many folks faced with the dilemma of desperate to work to put food on

the table, but you cannot afford to leave kids alone. we stand strongly for that. you asked about kids, but the same thing can be said about parents and grandparents. my mother in law passed away not long ago, my father in law was her caregiver. so i also want a caregiver tax credit for parents and grandparents. another thing we stand for is we want to get to universal pre-k as fast as we can. steve: can we afford it? amb. murphy: i think we can. i think we have to raise it in over several years. rhetorically, who said it was a right to have public education between the ages of five and 18 another 45 and not after 18? payant to extend both ends we stand for free community college, which is cheaper than universal pre-k, but something we think we can get too quickly. and universal pre-k for all. steve: by the way, we are taping on the 19th of september.

i woke up this morning and saw a variety of papers that the ambassador was calling for free education on our community colleges. amb. murphy: correct. steve: and there are great meaty colleges in the state. youdid you do that and what say to people who say great idea, but who will pay for it? amb. murphy: turns out this one is, in the scheme of things -- or stop ball, this is an investment. we have an administration that would lead you to believe money gets thrown out the window. where do my property taxes, income taxes go? when you are seeing underfunded public education, underfunded infrastructure, those are the correct questions. this is an investment. because the federal government play such a big role in community colleges, this is probably a couple hundred million dollars we think we can phase in over a couple of years. because if we are successful in reigniting the road that has

been lost under this administration in the innovation and infrastructure economies, it will not just be phd's and four-year college grads, that linchpin, that population will be important to fill those jobs. so we think it is a very good return on investment. these questions around pension related issues come in from facebook, twitter, wnet's website, njtv's website, fios, and others. the public employee pension situation is terrible at best. it is a crisis. weread history where you on the pension commission? amb. murphy: yes, i served under governor cody. steve: shed the state fully fund -- shouldloyee best the state fully fund public

employee pensions? amb. murphy: the answer is yes, period. it is a matter of trust. we are a state that used to be respected and trusted. if you are a public employee who has been left at the altar or you are an agency that has been downgraded 11 straight times -- or a young kid. we lead the state in exporting high school kids. can't you keep more of our kids home? we have thoughts and ideas around that. we have to regain trust our state. steve: what does that have to do with tension? amb. murphy: we want to be known as a state where a deal is a deal. steve: help people understand what the "deal," as you interpret it and how it is not being kept? amb. murphy: fully funding the pension obligation. i chaired this commission 12 years ago. first recognition of many -- no more pension holidays.

even 12 years ago. the state has been kicking this can down the road going on 20 years, since the 1990's. impact -- thent cumulative impact is overwhelming. i do not think you get there next monday, but you have to show transparently and deliver it we you will get there sooner then later -- sooner than later. steve: by the way, this special being nationally on c-span, on wnet, whyy, fios, also on am970. lots of different places. one of the things that kept coming up, and the lieutenant governor talked about it, is that we want to fully fund the pension as well. but she argues we should sit down with public employees and renegotiate. amb. murphy: that is the

cadillac land -- plan. if you and i struck a deal and it was over a course of 20 years, and i will start my -- and i welched on my end of the deal, and years later, i said could you make concessions, and when you do, i will get around to doing my end of the deal. steve: what about the money? if you said i know that is what we said, but the money is not there, you say? amb. murphy: i say the stewardship of this economy over the past seven and a half years has been underwhelming by any measure. we have left tens of billions of dollars of economic activity on the table. probably $2 billion or $3 billion of state revenue that could happen put to funding our pensions. we need strong stewardship of our economy that finds that money.

only talks about where we can get tax equity but reprioritize what we are already spending and grow the pie. we need a stronger and fair economy that works not just for some but for every new jersey family. steve: you can listen to us on the radio. we are talking with alabaster phil murphy, the democratic candidate for governor. 7. election is november amb. murphy: please vote. steve: let's nationalize you were here, ambassador, right where you are sitting in this beautiful studio, and i asked about donald trump in the primary. i said what grade? it was not a good grade. you went further than that you have had some time to see this presidency. today, you say? amb. murphy: underwhelming. i do not see leadership that we need. i see lack of clarity on moral authority.

herky-jerky,a one-day-to-the-next impulses. steve: did charlottesville bother you? amb. murphy: charlottesville bother me a lot. as a dad, american, warmer national board member of the --cp, ambassador germany ambassador to germany. on moral authority, it is pass-fail. you cannot wiggle one position to the next. i hope we can find common ground. the president has woken a good game on infrastructure investment. amen to put that down payment. building the gateway -- steve: has to be done? amb. murphy: has to be done. steve: let people know why. amb. murphy: there has not been

a new tunnel under the hudson in over 100 years. there was a tidal project built up four years -- there was a tidal -- tunnel project up for years, but the governor canceled that. steve: they said it was not a good idea. amb. murphy: there was a wide view that it was not perfect, but it was a heck of a lot closer to perfect then do something that should have been canceled. we are paying enormous consequences to the cancellation of that. wayt up, we have the gate project. the tunnel would have been opening next year, but we are now eight to 10 years away, and we need the federal government. the obama administration committed half of it. we need the trump administration

to do the same. the rest will be funded by new york, new jersey, the ports authority -- port authority. steve: many folks on nj.com and wanted to know how would you, if you are governor, dramatically improve nj transit? amb. murphy: start by funding it fully and putting the right people in leadership positions. i asked this question -- i ask this question a lot. if you are the fourth smallest state in this country, geography, and to next to the largest market in the world, you would think if you screwed everything else up, the one thing you would get right is commuter rail. we have proven otherwise in this administration. so put serious, competent leadership in place. stop crossing wires between the

operating budget and the capital budget, including very important safety programs. let's make the consumer arerience -- and they paying 36% more to ride nj christieuring the administration. it is all of those steps. back nationally. twitter, theebook, question kept getting asked about daca. there are 20,000 dreamers in new jersey. it is confusing, as we do this program in late september, with things are in washington. what do you think should happen in washington to solve the immigration question? amb. murphy: these kids are every bit as american as my four kids. i find it outrageous,

unacceptable, un-american, that they are being shown the door. steve: the president says he does not want to show them the door. amb. murphy: it depends on the day of the week. he said he did, then he did not. i hope cooler heads, american values, prevail. these are our most precious and come in many cases, brightest assets. 22,000 in the state. told me -- someone told me they pay $60 million or so in taxes. over 90% of them are educated or are going to school or are working. it is an extraordinary group of folks. steve: by the way, the rule of law thing -- people say we have to have the rule of law dictate here. president obama, executive order, he let them stay here, but that is not really the law, law. you say? amb. murphy: he hides behind an attorney general who is one of

the most anti-dreamer public officials appointed in the united states. steve: should sessions go? amb. murphy: i do not know if sessions should go or not, but they should not take it out on dreamers. let's open our doors wide. we are the beacon. people should want to still look up to our country and our values and say that is a place we want to be. we want to bring our kids up in america. steve: century cities. the lieutenant governor has a clear point of view. i want you to talk about century cities -- sanctuary cities. amb. murphy: i wish we would not have to talk about it. i thought hillary clinton would be president, and we would not have to talk about this. steve: but we are. amb. murphy: we will do what it takes. i think we will look back at this time in history and say governors will not have mattered more. because there is not a lot getting done in washington. we will need governors who stand

e andth a steel backbon push back on health care bills that would ruin our state, tax plan that ruin our state, and stand up on behalf on dreamers. if we need to be a sanctuary state, that is what we will be. we have to stand up with a steel backbone and say you cannot. to anotherared person who would be elected governor, the biggest difference would be? amb. murphy: the biggest fact is that i grew up poor. my dad did not get out of high school. my mom did. i worked under the table until i was 13. we do not have two nichols -- together, but i was happy. why was that the case then, and why is that not the case for a

kid in in poverty or in the middle class? because the deal is if you went to school and stayed out of trouble and got good grades, you are doing better than mom and dad. that is not the case for kids today. this is an abstract. i want to lift those kids up. i want to govern the state for them and their kids. steve: ambassador, thank you for joining us. we also want to think of the lieutenant governor for joining us. thank you. we appreciate it. we also want to thank our partners at public broadcasting news, c-span,os 1 thank you for joining us. on facebook as well. remember this -- and the election is tuesday, november 7. make sure you get out to vote, because democracy is not a spectator sport. i am steve adubato. thanks for watching. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017]

[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> the democratic and republican nominees in new jersey will hold their first televised debate tomorrow night. as nj.com reports, the race has not drawn much attention despite being one of two statewide governors races, the other being virginia. democrat phil murphy is a former ambassador to germany and former executive at goldman sachs. he has led lieutenant governor kim guadagno by double digits, chris christie's lieutenant governor. more -- nj.com. is traveling bus across the country on our 50 capitals tour. we recently stopped in richmond, virginia, asking folks what is the most important issue in their state? resident at the

university of richmond. i am concerned about the department of environmental quality not visiting the expansion of natural gas pipelines to our state. our land, water, and people. and as we move to renewable of timeit is a waste and money. west virginia has come out against it. virginia should, too. >> my name is jonathan, a millennial voter in the state of virginia. while i am focused right now on what happened to hr 1477, the equal housing act is i hope that is ed gillespie were elected, he would find a bipartisan approach to enacting legislation here in the commonwealth of virginia. the fair and equal housing act prohibits