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tv   Russian Interference in Democratic Elections  CSPAN  January 14, 2018 4:00am-5:28am EST

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up there and inspire confidence in his administration. he has to understand that the world will continue. continue.r will >> next a discussion on russian interference in elections around the globe. ben cardin and representative will heard talk about the immediate need to address russia's actions. this is hosted by the german marshall fund in washington, d.c. it is just under an hour and a half. >> good morning. thank you for joining us today.
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it's a great turnout on an important issue and i am heartened to see so many people here for this conversation. i want to welcome you here. i'm the director of the alliance for a securing democracy. as an organization dedicated to strengthening regional national global challenges and opportunities in the spirit of the marshall plan, we've always been at the forefront of his challenges in protecting the principles of democracy. that's why we launched the democracy last summer in recognition of the need for a bipartisan transatlantic effort to understand and others are using to undermine democracies and strategies to defend against and deter such activities. they are all too familiar with these activities. it will be the surest way to preserve the foundation of
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strength. over a year ago they assessed and moscow will apply the lessons learned for from the campaign ordering that the election to future influence efforts worldwide. we know the efforts to undermine the democracy haven't stopped as the networks on social media continue to have vitriol the vitriol in the daily discourse to turn americans against one another. it is essential that we come together across party lines to
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defend democracy. this is i know all of by no all of us here today believe a national security imperative. the codirector and i outlined a bipartisan approach to this challenge in the recent article on the playbook but time is not on our side and we need to take action along with our partners and allies and though it is a privilege tone host across party lines leading efforts to counter the threat and i can't think of a better moderator than and the former secretary of t homeland security who we are honored to have as a member for the alliance of the advisory council secretary chertoff is a leader on these issues and championed the need for more effective measures to counter the efforts to undermine the u.s. and europe. he will later introduce the leading voice in the house on the need for meaningful action to counter the efforts to undermine democracies. but first we will hear from
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senator cardin about the report highlighting these issues. i know we've all learned a great deal from it. he was elect by the people of maryland in 2006 after two decades in the house and as the ranking member on the senate foreign relations committee he's worked to further the national security and protect the human rights and wants to ensure that corruption and respect of human rights are integrated into policy and including the championship of the act and among a number of roles he's been a commissioner on into the member of the asia the asia pacific international cybersecurity policy subcommittee. it is my privilege to welcome you to today. [applause] >> thank you for that introduction but more importantly for the great work you're doingyou are doing on the alliance for security democracy. i want to thank the german marshall fund for the leadership and work here at the german
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marshall fund. it's been an incredible asset on the transatlantic relationships and encouraging dialogue and support for democratic institutions and it's good to be here with michael chertoff who's done an a incredible service for the country and it is an honor to be here with you. one of the leading forces in the house against the influence, so i hope that people understand our concern about the behavior isis a bipartisan concern. the alliance for security democracy talked about is an effort to bring to the attention of the american people, the public what the thread is all about to the democratic institutions so it is a great lead-in to why we did this report i'm releasing today on
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behalf of the democratic members of the foreign relations committee, the asymmetrical assault on democracy and russia in russia and europe and implications for the u.s. national security. this is the report we are releasing today that's about 200 pages. just shows you how well we plan in advance. we are releasing it today and i first want to acknowledge the incredible work of the staff. this is an effort that was a great deal of compiling informationt and working with people from other countries and government representatives. they led the effort on the staff and i thank him for his professionalism and dedication to the task. he had the help of general henry and i thank both of them for their extraordinary work.
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it wouldn't have been possible without the leadership of the stafff director so i just want to acknowledge my name might be on the report but it represents the professionalism and dedication of our staff people. we have to make a decision early in 2017 as to devoting the staff resources and time in order to this together because it would be a tremendous effort to get this comprehensive report done. it was a small part of the overall design to try to compromise democratic institutions so we immediately informed the staff of the game plan that we were doing and we kept them engaged as we went
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through the process so this is notge an effort to exclude one-party much of what is in the report is with the assistance of republican members so i just want that to be clear. the countries are outlined in this report and we are prepared to move forward. there is a long tradition in congress of republicans and democrats working together to
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counter the abuse against its own citizens, our allies and democratic institutions. the sanctions bill congress passed was with near unanimous support as a reflection of the profession. i was proud to work on the legislation with the team that included the likes of republican senators lindsey graham and marco rubio as well as democratic senators bob menendez and dick durbin. it strengthens the ability of the political system and relies on bipartisan solutions to the national security challenges. we've certainly done that in regards to the threat posed on the united states. during the cold war, the kernel, a longtime head of the operation said it before adversary could only be defeated through this
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strategic effort. that was during the cold war and they were would use traditional media methods from the methodical and slow. by today's modern technology tools of the internet to speed and sophistication of the weapons have about his like-minded brethren on the democratic institutions around the world. today the government of the russian federation is engaged in relentless assaults against democratic institutions, universal values and the rule of
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law at home and r abroad. vladimir putin to practice these attacks with the arsenal cyber attacks, disinformation, support for the groups, weaponization of energy resources, organized crime, corruption and military aggression. he's not 10 feet tall, nor should we make him out to be. his military remained substandard and he has few adherents aroundmy the world. russia's economy ranks over 12 in the world and it is 7% the size of the u.s. economy into smaller than countries such as italy, south korea or canada. forced to resort to such techniques because that is all he has to do to a measure of success especially in 2016, the attacks have grown in intensity and complexity the past few years with every attack his
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learning and honing in on his technique. this began well before the administration was designed and this isn't something just all of a sudden started. according to the organized crime reporting project he's accumulated tens of billions of dollars in stolen wealth. he has an active and effective propaganda machine and tried to splinter the eu like internet trolls in the public dialogue in the uk and slowing the integration talks with the european union. he's been able to stall progress of georgia, ukraine secession and into nato through aggressive military incursions and occupations. we could acknowledge the effectiveness of the tools. they brought mr. putin to power in russia. the techniques were first developed at home against the
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russian people and now he's using them globally. through our analysis it became clear several have stepped up to the challenge for some in europe the u.s. elections were a wake-up call that led to the political resolve and action. for others, they've been present for decades and organized accordingly. we learned in this investigation that the arsenal could be countered with the right mixture of political will, defense and deterrence. the countries that achieved a degree of success, one thing in common, political leadership who publicly says enough is enough and from there mobilized the bureaucracies to respond. in contrast to the current situation in the united states following the attacks like pearl
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harbor, 9/11, u.s. presidents rallied the country and the world to address the challenges yet today the current president of the united states barely acknowledges the threat posed by the repeated attacks on democratic governance and institutions let alone exercise the kind of leadership history has shown that's necessary to counter this kind of aggression. never before have they clearly ignored such a great threat and growing threat to u.s. national security. we have to be careful not to confuse president trumps inaction with the patriotism of our honorable services in government who are clear eyed into doing their best to respond to the sanctions laws on russia and provide that the poster's democratic institutions abroad. they are strengthening their presence in europe in helping to defend our friends in nato intelligence, national security and law enforcement officials worked day and night to protect us and i hope this report can
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offer a constructive policy forward into space to implement it for those in government who acknowledge the threat and i draw inspiration from europe's many valuable lessons can be drawn from our friend let me highlight a few examples. france has fostered a strong cooperation between government, political and media actors for the cyber hacking and smear campaigns and in response to what they view as possible effort to hack the digital infrastructure of the political campaigns france's main cyber security agency the french network and information security agency and the cyber threat in the fall of 2016. that agency offered cyber security awareness and training seminars for all french political parties ahead of the election this past spring. all parties participated with an
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understandable exception of the transnational we understand why thee decline. the campaign was a target of russia's e-mails certainly before the runoff elections. france was prepared for that attack and they made a point to chastise mr. putin for the meddling in democracies and move to cybersecurity and electoral procedures. they understand russia was actively engaged in and during the referendum they had the energy supplies to form the public about the activities of the security services and strengthen the defense against cyber attacks and disinformation. the countries have been particularly good at focusing on their individual citizens and
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empowering them with the thinking skills to fight disinformation, for examples we been incorporated into its primary schools the curriculum to teach digital competency including how to differentiate between the reliable and unreliable sources even one of the most popular cartoon characters that has been recruited to help children learn about the dangers of fake news and the need to check the sources of information. in germany all political parties and 2016 accept, you guessed it, agreed not to use these tools in their campaigning. they warned in a major address at the fake news and disinformation tactics the interior ministry also proposed the creation of a center of defense against misinformation noting that the people of turkish origin are especially susceptible of the information and recommended in the political educational work of those
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groups. i think most of you are familiar with the case that appeared in germany the fake news created by a russian state tv that was being that the russian german-speaking population to protest against migrants. here in the united states we must respond with urgency toot this threat. if we don't, moscow will be emboldened tol undermine the stability again and the united states in the midterm elections in 2018 and presidential in 2020. make no mistake mr. putin will push as far as he can if we don't push back. even beyond the electrical interference, they also found examples of the kremlin backed efforts that impacted the daily lives of americans they care about. for example, cheating americans out of medals at the olympic
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games, supporting cyber criminals who attacked american businesses in to steal the financial information of millions of consumers. so what should we do about this? what should we do s about the asymmetrical arsenal? it includes many recommendations but i would like to summarize the top six. first, mr. trump must show unequivocal presidential leadership to the government and the american people. he should immediately declare that it's u.s. policy to detour all forms of russia hybrid threats against the united states and around the world. the president should establish a high-level interagency cell modeled when the countering terrorism center for the response to the russian government's influence operations. second, the u.s. government should provide assistance and concerts with analyzing europe to build democratic institutions
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within those european states, most formidable to russian government interference. as part of this effort the united states government should lead an international government of like-minded democracies to influence operations. specifically the president should model the global il,lition to counter is summits that have taken place since 2015. civil society and private sector should participate in the follow-up activities and summits. to reinforce the government should have diplomatic leadership to support human rights that are the backbone of the democratic system. members of the united states
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congress have a clear responsibility to show leadership to show human rights as their agenda conducting hearings and use platforms and opportunities to publicly advance these issues. what am proud of the senate foreign relations committee to highlight human rights bringing to the public's attention to pass legislation and i think senator corker on his leadership but we must do t more. third we should expose the dirty money to the kremlin. corruption provides motivation and the means to influence operations. these are criminal enterprises. u.s. treasury department should make public any intelligence related to the personal d corruption and then to cut him off and his inner circle from the international financial system.
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they want dollars. not trouble and by the way they want the visa to other countries that is why the log really works to take away their corruption. the u.s. government should expose criminal activities associated with russia's state-owned energy sector. in addition it should issue yearly reports with tiered classification based on objective third-party corruption cases as well as efforts of corruption this is a bill that already passed the senate foreign relations committee patterned after the trafficking of persons report to fight modern-day slavery we need that same effort united states government should influence operations and democracies as a hybrid.
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countries that are designated as such falling under the preemptive sanction regime that is applied whenever estate uses asymmetric weapons like a cyberattack to interfere with an election or disrupt infrastructure. united states government should work with the eu to make sure these sanctions are coordinated. also to detail the influence operations in the united states and around the world. fifth, the united states and nato should be the coalition against cyberattacks the establishment of the rapid reaction teams the government should call a head of meeting of cyberattacks among states to have a formal guideline how the alliance considers such an attack united states government should also establish the international treaty with the
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cybertools model on international arms control and united states and european government should mandate social media companies make public sources of funding just like tv channels and print media. talk about how the platforms could have been used by criminal entities over the past several years. it should establish civil society advisory councils to give the input that emerging trends i and work with foundations and governments and civil societies to promote literacy toie reduce the presence on the platform.
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united states led the world of international order after world war ii with shared values and accepted norms. the transatlantic bond and body those organizations is the foundation for that order to advance our interests and expand prosperity. of those democratic principles is enough but seeks to protect little more than his power it is up to the united states and allies to engage in coordinated efforts to put a democracy on europe the united states and around the world. there is a distinction between mr. putin corrupt regime and the people of russia who has some of the most frequent victims many
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citizens strive for a transparent and accountable government and we hope for better relations in the future with russia. we applaud the courage we have seen of those who have protested on the streets of moscow and throughout russia recount against mr. putin's policies. i always remember human rights activists continuously tell us that russians the passage by the united states congress was the best law we could have passed it is in favor of the russian people. as pointed out with the helsinki commission russia and the united states are members we made a mutual commitment to respect the rights of citizens and it is a challenge if the country is not complying with the helsinki agreement. we must work with our allies a
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to build the defense against mr. putin's arsenal and then to deter such behavior by russia or any other country. that is the essence of what we are recommending in this report now it is time for the united states to exercise leadership. thank you. [applause] >> thank you for those remarks and for your leadership to get at this comprehensive report. now i will ask a couple of questions i know you have a hard stop five minutes before the hour. what is interesting is much of the public dialogue in this
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country is russian interference were of somebody hacked into the election process itself which is far is i know did not happen. but you say the russian activities are more broader than that with investments overseas for example they leverage russian interests with energy as a way to leverage corruption or cyberattacks we saw that estonia and in georgia. there is a playbook of hybrid warfare. but you talk about coming together so can you give us a sense of your vision of how this would work? >> we concentrate on a particular episode rather than the plan russia has. they attack elections we get
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excited and then investigations how we can protect ourselves against that particular attacker when russia invades ukraine we take action as if it is an isolated episode but it is not. it is part off the design mr. putin has which recognizes democratic countries with love law with free and fair elections are against his personal interest. he cannot convince them to that criminal behavior as he can in his own country there are concerns they will impose sanctions so he wants to bring that down. also be popular with his people so he uses propaganda to do that. i envision the interagency committee to take every resource
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that we have whether defense or state department to put all that together with a strategy so the priorities may be to join the europeans because the front lines in europe have prior connections to the soviet union. we need to develop that strategy with the interagency to develop that overall strategy to be responsible for all players participating to have a strategy to carry out u.s. policy. >> back in the cold war with the propaganda from russia and eventually it was to get all of the workers to unite and join russia. that did not work. what is putin's objective?
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uses taking to become the popular leader of other countries. what is his endgame? >> first of all tries to preserve his own popularity in the country where the economy is feeling therefore has to have other successes may be military that are contrived to show the people of russia he is a successful warrior may be winning metals in the olympics more than you should when so it is who he is trying to show. and number two, he needs money. corruption and illegal funds that is an incredibly important part of the strategy and third, dealing with local popularity dealing with intellectuals
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around the world so therefore he t finds ways through criminal organizations, alliances that violate basic human rights, shows much more influence and that is part of his game plan. that is for the asymmetric arsenal for cyberattacks and energy and weaponization and to sponsor criminal organizations. >> with the use of fake news are examples of exploiting existing social divisions with some of those issues like police misconduct.
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that suggests that for putin to be successful, there has to be fertile ground that means our civil society has a role to play to create conditions that don't allow the fertilization of this malevolent news. how do we engage the ball society but respect the fact of the first amendment the government doesn't tell us what too say? >> it is a challenging question because there is this thought in all communities that naturally three of mankind to have problems with the public
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acceptance. but we have not had another country coming into our country exploiting us.nt as a tool or an effort to disrupt our government. that is what is happening with russia and what is unacceptable. the same way when we try to figure out the acceptable use of cyber, for getting information or using it as a tool for national defense. there is a limit and mr. putin has violated those. it is wrong to try to interfere with the domestic tranquility of the country with the purpose with lack of unity in europe to weaken the eu so the migrant issue is an excellent opportunity to accomplish is objective some don't want expansion of nato because having the troops in ukraine makes it much more difficult for those
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countries to move toward nato secession. these are his strategies to weaken the west for what is considered acceptable conduct. >> if we implemented the suggestions, obviously they will not walk away from a field of battle. what is their reaction or anticipation down the line? >> we found out they did their own list of people that could not come into their country. something as simplistic as that because part of mr. putin strategy is every p p country has these problems. do we have corruption? yes. every country does. but yes, get all the
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indictments. so the point to all of that it is our country and we will make sure russia's greatness is preserved. that is the challenge that we have. and with mr. putin's response to put a bigger spotlight on your problem. so ask a question and identify yourself. [inaudible] >> most of russia is through anonymous companies and the real estate with the u.s. treasury
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three and a half million dollars per year coming into this country do you have an idea? >> absolutely we agree that we have problems because of domestic laws that protect privacy and free enterprise. we have laws that work to mr. putin's advantage with cell
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phone companies and we need to strengthen our laws. that was suggested several years ago. congress has yet to act on that but that is an area i think we need to. but for them to issue a report on mr. putin's illegal games. much of it is in the united states. we need to make sure the banking system is not available when you transfer funds. >> thank you very much for this brilliant report. what the relationship between u.s. and russia so the last report was the enemies of russia it was 68% of russian people think they are an enemy. so you said we should make a distinction with the administration or the people. so do they come back from the spirit of cold war? to make as much people to people
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exchange as we can because the more information we can share the better off we are one of the curators is that i have no argument or complaints against people of russia. they are good people with a proud history and a bright future. but the soviet union decided to join that was a voluntary decision that they made.
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certain fundamental commitments that russia needs to comply with. basic fundamental rights for citizens in h the helsinki document they have the obligation and opportunity and i question that the conduct is not what it needed to be. but russia leadership does things with propaganda with popular support that has been misleading his population. i believe we want to have and can have a relationship with russia but not with the country that tries to interfere with our elections or tries to use energy as a weapon or a country that invades its neighbors. that is not acceptable but that conduct of government causes the friction and yes you root for
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the home team united states holds the actions i suspect the people do not like that.t. we had the same problem with apartheid south africa when united states but then to speak out but the concept need to change. >> i oversee voice of america and radio free europe that was successful in the cold war so what is the role of those entities in the big picture of voice of america and radio free
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europe? >> that is supported by the congress. we don't eat to that directly in the report but we do talk to the fact that dealing with information like the free press is very important. the problem today is people are insensitive to what is accurate and what is not. voice of america offers a mission in many parts of the world that is the source of true objective information. >> good morning senator. thank you for your words about the cooperation to stand ready at the european union to work
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with the united states but you mentioned when you started off something that you are suggesting a leadership role for the u.s. in this report with initiatives but what about the possibility in this current political climate and with the president that barely recognizes this. >> i would acknowledge president trump look that policy than any previous administration i have ever been involved with. he is not only unpredictable to members of congress and the american people but his own administration. it is not an easy manner to operate.
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but i do believe the american people, the congress has changed his views and in regards to russia so i think the president has been exposed to the realities and is acting in a way to recognize that i do hope the bipartisan efforts of congress will help in that regard but the united states senate was pretty remarkable because of the bill. i am hopeful we will continue to see the united states evolve into strong leadership to defend us against these attacks.
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>> my question goes in a similar direction. he mentioned the bipartisan nature and that they started to get away so then what about success to establish such an agency now? given the nature of the discussion? were to have specific steps? >> we have had pretty candid
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discussions with the trump administration and with the europeans. with members of the senate and the house with the growing understanding of the recommendation including the interagency committee with bipartisan support i cannot tell you what president trump will do but i do think there are strong bipartisan interest. so those that i have worked with it is a broad group so there is a general shoe dealing with the security issue. >> and with the analytics private sector, here is my question. a country is the subject of a very vicious propaganda campaign with all due respect really have
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a 200 page report to show for that? we don't have anybody in the office of science and technology and don't see congress addressing this anytime soon. >> the purpose is to focus primarily on the united states on the activities of mr. putin and what we need to do to address that. there are other investigations going forward as it relates to the united states. so there will be additional reports coming out we hope twill give additional recommendations on changes to protect ourselves but as we take those the report will be helpful to say to do with that threat let's make sure we have the broader issues on the radar screen.
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i agreed to meet the trump administration has not put the resources where they should be to deal with the threat. i agree. >> im with private enterprise that given the distinction between and what is congress doing to help political institutions as we approach? >> every country has different but are those counties that is guaranteed that we do know there is some risk that there have been efforts made to understand that not but we also know they used you and we have to protect those disclosures how the advertisement is done.
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so to anticipate 2018 starting with the president trump administration for the threats to recognize that are out there we have a vulnerability that europe doesn't have. we don't have an election cycle
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we are always in election mode. that is more challenging like an open system and the culture that we have. so we really do need to recognize the 2018 elections started one year ago. are we as prepared as we need to be? i don't think so but i do know there is tremendous concerns in maryland and other states to protect the integrity of our system and additional steps to be taken. >> thank you all very much. [inaudible conversations] [applause]
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>> now we are joined by the congressman representing the people of texas. so with a certain three letter agency it was involved as a cybersecurity advisor 2015 became a member of congress with the government oversight reform committee in the house said it intelligence committee. >> thanks for having me. >> starting with a couple of
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questions have you had an opportunity to look at the report the democratic staff the senate formulation committee issued? >> i have not. but i am very familiar with theli broader precept. >> as a general overview looking at the issues what is a top priority as far as our engagement? >> it starts with what is the strategy and how to handle it. that is what the alliance is doing. all of this is part of covert action and how do we counter that?
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historically the cia would be responsible but now they cannot do covert action in the united states of america so they are not. who has the responsibility to deal with this? not just a private-sector issue we also have to give academia and the press involved so there has been enough conversation of rules and responsibilities in this effort.
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to her height the problem is important some social media companies highlight the tools and procedures to erode trust but ultimately i think the spearhead is between the stateea department and department of homeland security. we can counter violent extremism as a model because it is the same effort the messaging and counter messaging. >> that is a portend point if you are not familiar with that termar if you look at what people susceptible to be recruited by terrorist. so semaphore we have seen really are seeds that are planted in the ground that is fertile. so the first line of defense is asked as we educate ourselves.
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thinking how we might do that with the government and the private sector as well. >> why did latimer putin try to do? ultimately to reestablish the integrity of the united states. he knows he cannot beat us economically that is why they have to resort to the hybrid war they have been perfecting this so one is recognition of that problem. with the private sector the tools they are using we need to identify when they see the trend. that is helpful in the german and french election because twitter facebook google
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everybody can see and analyze the tactics used in give that information to the germans and the french. but also the intelligence services need to start sharing more. if you look at what facebook has done with internet research agency all that work has been done on their own. so if some of this information gathered by the intelligence service can be used by the private sector to do their targeting i think we can be even more effective. that is a basic effort. also to identify when something isn't wrong.
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don't get into a car with a stranger. stranger danger. why are you listening to a stranger on social media? why do you think that information is valuable? that is a basic common body of knowledge that we have we have to start incorporating. i took music classes as a kid i'm not a musician nor a historian we should educate how the idea is propagated or how a combustion engine works but not the internet. we have to start educating at the basic level. when my one and a half-year-old niece knows how to use the ipad
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we have to make sure she knows not only how to use that tool that the information coming back to her. >> that is critical thinking we have been talking about teaching kids of those who may try to groom them for improper behavior. but now it is a broader implication to apply critical thinking. but now in terms of the government there is sensitivity because of free speech even if you don't like it. putting out a story there is a free speech but is somebody to buy a political advertisement.
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>> on twitter if you are the elected official so is there a way to say if you want other verification than the name is connected and attributed to is there a way to say listen, if you want to get some other kind of verification, to say that the name that pops up is indeed somehow connected to attributed to someone else? that is a possibility. you don't have to do it if you do not want to, but that would be a signal to a person using it, that this person has gone through some kind of check to say that they are indeed who they say that who they are.
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also, when it comes to political speech, the rules and regulations that are seen and political speech are quite clear. the same processes and restrictions that you have for print media should also be the same that you have for all media. there have been a number of hearings on the hill about this topic. everybody agrees we should be thinking about political speech that way. that doesn't mean the russians will not try to do something to
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get around those issues that not every russian person involved is likely for. just like we would chase russian intelligence officers are or iranian nuclear weapon chlorophyll leaders, people were trying to influence our democracy. --hink that should be on top on our national security and an intelligence framework. >> so when we discussed russian warfare, it is not just fake news but a series of tools that , includes investing in companies then using those investments as a way to leverage russian interests, it involves using energy, dominance as a way of leveraging europe. it involves support for fringe political movements including financial support.
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what are we seeing in terms of those kind of efforts here, and beat them int the the end. what are we doing to contract those efforts at all? >> as they try to gain influence it isn't just russia but also china so one of the tools this is a review to ensure it doesn't have a national security implication, whatever the investment will be. calledcifie tools is us. there is a view on that process. is it tight enough? and what i have learned i have a theory the closer you are to russia the less likely you are to believe their nonsense. but the converse of that rule is that the farther away, the more likely you are. >> take a look at hungary, very
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close to russia. bestresident has been at mutual, and in many cases showing an inclination to russia. how do we work with our allies in europe to make sure they do not wind up in that forbid? might nato friends get mad when i say this. one of the things i think is funny about nato, is that if you are in the conference there, you are not allowed to be in a net -- nato. these are the people you want in nato? so ukraine is on the front line of this battle not only fighting a hybrid war but a hot war. i think that is where russians get away with things. people still talk about the ukraine as a separatist movement.
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920 tanks inside ukraine are russian tanks. so, if anyone thinks that this is anything other than invasion and the fact that the russians think the u.n. is going to arbitrate this? there is a simple solution, leave. leave the country that you invaded. so we have to support these countries on the front lines but -- countries like moldova which is a perfect example. russians werethe able to infiltrate certain provinces, run candidates who were supportive of them, to basically break away from moldova, there are getting ready to go through an election in a few months. the same kind of pressures that were on ours are going to be there but you have added influence of money, energy, and that is why i'm excited to
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selling energy to eastern europe. what, theess europeans would rather buy from us than putin. , but makes money from oil his political pressure comes from natural gas. if we are able to break about their influence in this region's will be less. and you will see some of these local folks be less subset to. of the areang out of disinformation, and these are the tactics that vladimir putin is trying to do to reestablish that territory in the -- that the ussr had. >> does a cyber attack with shut down some substations in ukraine. we focus our energy to and i to yourt in addition prior work as a cochair of the aspen cyber security committee
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-- how can we work in the private sector to make sure that we are upping our defenses not just a guess what we constantly see what theft of information, but actually with efforts to interfere with our critical infrastructure? we have to start thinking about our critical infrastructure as a connected ecosystem. one of the reasons he will do , maybe something on the utility grid, would impact the say, the financial services industry as well. so there are clear rules and responsibilities with cyberdefense. we talk a lot about information sharing between the government and the private sector. we need to clarify more, what information we want to share, because not everyone is on the same level of classification as to what information they need from the government. tabletopo be doing
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exercises, on if something were to happen, or if there were some to have activity, what is everybody's role? we do that already now in response to terrorist threats, natural disasters, and i think hurricane harvey in texas were a good example -- hurricane harvey and -- in texas was a good example. all of that preparation for about 10 years led to good execution. mentality whenme it comes to a cyber attack on our critical infrastructure. i get frustrated with the federal government, one we start thinking about, should we transition to the cloud? yes, the answer is why haven't we? be future of the wars will good ai versus bad ai. do we have the talents to deal
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with that future problem? are we thinking about the strategies of what i were warfare looks like the chain good ai and bad ai? we stay number one in cryptology, quantum computing, artificial intelligence, machine learning -- these are all tools that we are going to be learning reason why vladimir putin said whoever amasses artificial intelligence will be the next hegemony. we have an edge but our edge is not that great. we have to separate from the pack. dues are all things again like this mattersll of preparedroader being for a hybrid war with russia. michael chertoff:
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i would like to take some questions from the audience is the best let us see what we have. if you identify yourself people are here withh microphones back hello. >> i have done a lot of work for russia and the usc. i would like to go back to a conversation from earlier when there was a perception that it has taken months at least for the russian public that this is part of an anti-russian campaign brought about by the american and political and -- establishment. what can we do to counter that perception? that would be effective, that would not necessarily be viewed as still another propaganda campaign? >> it is a hard issue to deal with. traditionally that is the public diplomacy wall of our embassy
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abroad. we try to do that public diplomacy role against a hostile government and it is difficult. there have been debates here in the united states about cutting the budget for the state department and usaid. i think that is crazy. , i'm buster crocker always said that if you have more wingtips and humps on the ground, you prevent boots on the ground. which we saw -- which is why we say aggressive the helps. invadingy that we are russia, but we do need diplomacy. i can use iran as an example. to be supported iranian people, not the iranian government. when we have these issues, we should make sure to separate the two. a lot of times we say, we have to stop russia.
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stop the russian government specifically, s,adimir putin, initiative that matters. chertoff: yes, over here. fius earlier.ned ci we have two reform bills that are picking up steam. to what extent do you believe that investment in our social media platforms in particular poses a national security threat that should be subject to a cif ius review? >> i think when it comes to that
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review we need to do a deeper dive to find out who exactly are the people involved. , due diligence matters. i do not care what kind of deal it is. art,nk the due diligence we need to be a little bit more aggressive. industryare what the is. wit is that yes, with primarily focused around high tech, but you can get into the back door a number of different ways. you can do things when it comes to commercial real estate. -- we should be thinking about all of those kind of investments and making sure that we have the due diligence. when the government plays a role, i think we can streamline and improve the due diligence when it comes to those investments. michael chertoff: yes, jim, over
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here. >> thank you, congressman. i am a fellow at the alliance for security and democracy. there are millions of americans across the country, including in imagine, who do not believe that russia is a threat to our international security. or it may be it is not immediately tangible to them, so they do not pay much attention to what we are doing here in washington to defend against it. do we take as how conversation we are having here in washington and bring it to the broader public? congress and the a menstruation are trying to do to prevent this threat? you, therei can tell are some folks in texas who are ready for the red dawn. it starts with talking about it. that is what i try to do.
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inalk about i.t. procurement my district, and trust me, that is not a sexy topic. no one is ever held a debate for that. but it requires a conversation like this to articulate what the problem is. when you look at national don't care where you go, national security is usually a number two or number three issue. so for us, defining it as a national security concern and explaining why. a lot of times -- you have been doing this for a long time, we take certain things for granted. we always have to continue to show what this threat is to us. i think this latest example that we saw within our elections is a good example. the specific example that i believe senator were used, and burrhearings -- senator
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-- i the issue in texas think that was a perfect example of what the russians are trying to do to go from cyberspace into the real world. and the more that we can we alwaysthe problem, have to go back to that, so that everyone knows the influence of this. it is hard. michael chertoff: the gentleman back there? >> i am with nbc news. we just heard from senator cardin discussing what he hopes will be received as a bipartisan report but obviously, there was one written by the democrats. you said that in the house committee, there has been political friction on how russia probe has been going. can you give us an update?
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and also, what would you say regarding the events that we saw yesterday? i wonder whether our government is able to tackle these issues in a bipartisan way? our hurd: i believe government can tackle these issues in a bipartisan way, i we have to to ensure that the american people have trust in what is being done up here. my goal is what we've always stated, what exactly did the russians do? what was the government response to that? and what should the government response have been? intot us to look further the future into how we set up and prepare for this, into the future. we should agree on some of the tactics that were being used, and i think there is bipartisan support for that.
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i think that sometimes, some of your colleagues, want to focus on one thing that may have been said, in order to show that division. thesewill say, in some of , the hearings and meetings i am in, there is definitely a bipartisan support to make sure that we get to the bottom of this. the area where we need more conversation around, is what is the national strategy to deal with connor distribution. there has not been enough conversation on that. council isl security working on this, but i think when we can put in place a strategy that i think that republicans and democrats to agree on, then we will make sure that everyone knows that we are trying to prevent this problem in the future. michael chertoff: the lady in
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the back? hello, i work for a task force heading up their digital strategy team. i loved you, earlier about combining thought leadership, especially from lessons learned broader political disinformation. there are a lot of efforts we have seen in the past in global engagement centers, disinformation alongside terrorist propaganda and looking at it. -- when it comes to actions on the hill, there have been several meetings which have been incredibly duplicative with the tech sector and a number of other part -- partners. i think a lot of people have not seen those parallels. rep. hurd: it starts with what this organization is trying to do. how do we cataloged all the different folks who are already
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involved in this effort. i do not know who all is involved in this activity. a lot of things are popping up. so when it comes to a major problem, having some overlap is not necessarily bad, but we need to start using a streamlined organization which starts with that strategy, who was responsible for it, and then you can start looking sure everybody understands what their roles and responsibilities are. do notnclear because we have an overarching plan on how to deal with this. it is not just in the government, there has to be a public-private cooperation. i think more people have gotten used to how we handle cyber security, that disinformation is still come in -- a nebulous issue for people. cbe is still nebulous, even though it has been around, the
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notion of disinformation. so we have to figure out what is -- who was in charge, everyone can figure out what their role is. these are the conversations that we're having now. --need to start focusing on ok, in 2018, this is how we will be prepared. michael chertoff yes. >> to continue this theme on combating disinformation. i am from the civic engagement fund. we have been watching a lot of propaganda come out aimed at a lot of people. what would you recommend u.s. leaders do for similar efforts here in the united states? we have for example, the
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sinclair podcast group putting out xenophobic op-ed which are not actually news. they do not follow sec regulations but the end -- they are causing people not to realize what the real issues are like we are discussing here. what would you recommend to deal with that? rep. hurd: i don't know if i would categorize sinclair and vladimir putin in the same conversation, but i think there calledeat book on this, "the red web." it was written by hackers, some russian hackers, about how vladimir putin basically was not just theol, outlets for social media, but the broader media in general. that is kind of the playbook, and you see that.
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i would say that what is great the reasoncommand were having this problem, is there are so many vehicles. it is hard to hide. when you have everybody in different organizations like this one here shining a light on these problems -- we have to continue to encourage that. right, are absolutely with what the russian government is trying to do, influence people in order to keep putin in charge. the discounting of this gentleman, i am joining a blank on his name, one of the leading opposition figures, saying that he cannot run for -- the volney y -- yes, that is crazy that that is happening. need -- we cannot do this
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alone and we need our european allies to follow suit and support us on shining a light to this actresses that are happening in russia. it requires many of you all to do that as well. let us encourage and support our allies. let us encourage and participate with the ukrainians. these are all important thing for us. michael chertoff: we have time for one more question. yes. i am the ambassador of georgia. rep. hurd: and georgia, as well. i apologize. [laughter] >> thank you. it is 10 years from the russian invasion of georgia and since then, we are trying to normalize the space.
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we are a number one reformer in regards to the fighting of we are trying to become as transparent as possible as a government. also 10 yearsis of the promise that georgia would become a nato member. through that optics, how do you see the possibility -- despite these reforms, we face a thousand russian troops standing near our border. do you see a response to that, strengthening our partnerships multilaterally, through exploration of the countries? rep. hurd: if i were to make the decision, we would have more
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friends in nato. i think there's an outdated understanding and model on how they can be helpful, but guess what, the u.s. can still make sure that we are supporting our friends and supporting the folks on the front line. georgia is on the front line. moldova is on the front line. there are so many other places in the front line. it goes back to the gentleman's other question there, he have to explain to the american people what happens in georgia, why it is important for our national security. that is something that folks here in this room, like the thattary, the able to make case of why supporting you is important for the folks in south and west texas, or iowa, or ohio. so, you have my vote. but if there are other things that we can be doing and should be doing, then we should. michael chertoff: that was a
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great conversation. and by the way great , a illustration of bipartisan because both of you came out basically in the same place. when we deal with adversaries, we are americans, rather than party members, and we have to remember that. that this is the beginning of a discussion, and not the end. thank you. rep. hurd: thank you. [applause] >> on newsmakers this weekend, our guest is representative whip.hoyer the minority he talks about democrats chances of taking control in the house in the upcoming elections and also discusses ongoing efforts to protect so-called dreamers. watch the interview today at 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. eastern here on
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c-span. announcer: next weekend, c-span's cities tour takes you to newport, rhode island with the help of our cox communications cable partners. to her ofan's 80's newport, rhode island next weekend beginning saturday at noon eastern on looks to be, on c-span two, and sunday on c-span3 on american history tv. working with our cable affiliates as we explore america. at the sonic attacks which occurred in cuba this year and costs several u.s. diplomats to seek treatment. this meeting included state department officials testifying on how the united dates responded to the attacks, the health and personnel affected and the potential causes. the cuban government de


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