>> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us here in the studio in washington, d.c. is cot-author of , "shattered," inside hillary clinton's doomed campaign. also joining us in new york, amie parnes, a co-author of the

book. thanks for joining us this morning. guest: thanks for having us, pedro. for having us, pedro. host: jonathan allen, start with you. book, ormation is in the where does the new information start when it comes to hillary clinton's campaign? we have new information that dates back around labor day efore the end of the campaign, warning signs she was getting from the democratic operatives enough there wasn't going on on the ground in the states, operatives who felt good enough message from hillary clinton about her economically and particularly they would help people raise themselves up, how they would a more ople to have aspirational view of their own economics. back there. we actually won well past the materials nd some new about the fight for the democratic party between the factions and clinton factions and intense scene in

bill clinton talking o tom perez, giving instructions about what to do with the d.n.c., which hasn't worked out. host: if there were concerns within the campaign about how it response, what was the from hillary clinton's team? guest: i think hillary clinton's the time kind of took it for granted and essentially thought they were winning. even on the days where they -- the not so good days, i think thought they were winning, but i think particularly going into the campaign tch of the and the final days of november, there was great optimism there she would be elected president of the united states. host: within the team itself, there those that say maybe we should readjust the message r strategy to compensate for that and if that was the case, how were they received? uest: i don't think there was ever a time toward the end of the campaign, in particular,

needed to t they adjust the message. i think one point in time, they on like they wanted to end a positive note and they kind of tweak today to hit trump a harder. i don't think, i think they felt like they had this and they were feeling good. i was there that night and there a sense of optimism she was going to take this home and be turned and that slowly as we all know, asa the evening wore on. host: jonathan allen, a seasoned candidate who campaigned before for this position, why didn't she catch these things before? really amazing is the people she seemed to be in her withing most 2016 campaign formed the base of to 2008 campaign, which is say working class white voters, articularly in the rust belt appalachian, i think amie nd i, after having talked to

dozens of people on the clinton campaign came the conclusion was they were telling us hillary clinton didn't really have a message for the american ublic that was about what she was going to do for them rather than the campaign. that is not to say she didn't for what she was going to do for them. she wasn't able to articulate in a way where it was more about them than her. the book uthors of "shattered," inside hillary clinton's doomed campaign, now paperback. if you want to ask questions about it, 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. 202-748-8002. amie parnes, start after the ampaign, where does the campaign leave the party, what condition does it find itself now? democratic nk the party is still struggling to ind out their identity and who the party represents.

out,e see thanksgiving play i cover this every single day for the hill there is no party leader. people who want president obama to come back into the picture, play a bigger role, he's been resistant to that, giving advice behind the be es, but doesn't want to the foremost figure in the democratic party and so i think he's he's -- he doesn't want to play the foil to president trump. and that remains to be 2020 is e race for anybody's game at this point, there is no clear winner, i trying lot of people are to figure out, as i said before, the core message of the party is. bigger headline than people realize, all the oxygen is around president think the i democratic party is still on a ling, particularly national level and that is going months out in the coming

and years up to 2020, that is book e talk about in this a little bit. host: jonathan allen you hinted ith tom perez, what is his message to appeal to voter? uest: i think first of all tom perez has been focused on fundraising and not doing particularly good job of that. it has been difficult for the d.n.c. the party is out of power. packs, lives of super he mccain feinstein, and understand the role of the party is different than it used to be. this is not an organization that to pick candidates and that often back fires. we've seen that on the in the an side some past, the republican national ommittee is doing better in terms of fundraising and coordination, the d.n.c. base.ular with its own half of the democratic party, roughly half the democratic felt like the d.n.c. was unfairly tipping the scales in the last presidential election,

to get hillary clinton nominated, trying to hurt bernie start with that bad blood there has been a clash between the two sides that ary sum. hostility had been put aside in donald sumed the minute trump was elected, huge battle for the democratic party between the clinton-type folks and the sanders folks and tom perez is that and gotten explicit instruction from president clinton as we write in paperback extension of the original book. clinton notfor bill to let the party go to the bernie sanders folks. i think people who are reading interested in how the democratic party is -- how it trying to part and put itself back together will find those passagea necessary interesting. i also think certainly republicans will find it well.sting, as host: jonathan allen, also is ational political reporter for

nbc news, amie parnes serves as senior political correspondent for the hill. calls lined up for both of you. new hampshire, nancy, you are up for our guests. good morning. caller: hi there. i'm just curious, during the campaign, i'm in my 60s, been around for a number of elections hillary'sed obviously career, bush'sa, everybody's. is, this past campaign with advent of social topics,hat took over the i mean, nobody asked hillary clinton the kind of questions normally ask the candidate, they didn't ask her about ask aboutlicy, didn't job plan for the coal miners or policy issues. did the the men who interviewing have now been disgraced as men who basically the me too movement because they didn't respect a woman. not only was social media hillary, hillary supporters couldn't even call

"washington journal" and support her. don't understand how her policy never got discussed. server, benghazi, server, begs begs, media doesn't negativity from his side of it and the horrible hings he's said and disabled reporter was mocked -- host: got you, nancy. amie parnes, you want to start? well, i think that part of it is obviously politics it is not e in this, just about policy. felt if illary clinton she was the most prepared person, we saw this going into wrote about it in the book, if she came in out, she olicy in and could win the debates and prove that she is the most capable person, the most experienced person to be in the oval office. about that,n't just it was about a lot of things and i think one problem she faced,

didn't, her team did not come out ahead of the e-mail waited months and months and months until the to address it ar and have her actually issue an pology, so they let the story dominate and fester over several months without even gaining that l of the message and was the problem and that was something john and i report out, frustration ot of building up inside the campaign and bill clinton was frustrated, but they couldn't get their message across that the e-mail ituation was the controversy dominating the campaign. i think a lot of this kind of led to her defeat. was just better at, he was playing le at kind of to the media and calling in to hows, something she eventually thought to do also, but i think it was a little too late. ost: mark in michigan, independent line, hi. caller: yeah, mark.

i was disappointed in democrats and republicans. [cutting out] -- hillary was going to raise tax on the rich. going to crease ain't ean squat anyhow, how much -- on the deficit if people are working? host: okay. breaking up, mark, i apologize, jonathan allen to the idea, the message that hillary delivered on economics. is there something to what the caller was bringing up? interesting, the caller is talking about deficits and the debt. huge effort on the clinton campaign's part to find ways to pay for her programs, was very they thought important that every time they went out and told the voters bout a new program, there was some pay for it, cut in spending elsewhere or increase in taxes. believed that was the responsible thing to do and

voters would respond to it. end, it didn't matter what we saw was president trump campaign on policies that were going to expand the deficit and come into office and tax ment policies the last cut and the big spending boost e just got more recently than exacerbates the deficit. we are looking at as far as the can see trillion dollar deficit in debt that will skyrocket. obviously didn't prioritize that as number one idea going into the election. way, they have not done that for a long time. complains power party about deficits and debt, ba-- er partyaxace exacerbates that. mentioneda budget law in the deficit. bill clinton, some budgets were intended to cut those down. largely speaking over the last 40 years or so, we've seen make s get in power and that worse. host: james, boston, massachusetts, democrat's line.

to bothhi, good morning of you, all three of you. real fast and simple. hillary.ikes it is not her deficit policy, i don't know what the hell that is. basically she came up with the wrong people, she came out for people. don't get me wrong, white people got it. her husband came out for us minorities and she did not, she wanted white people, she assumed because she's t democrat. when you come out smelly, we vote.come out and that is her campaign's fault. she deserves to lose. replacement.got in host: that is james in massachusetts. to parnes, her appeal minorities? guest: she tried to emulate waysdent obama in a lot of and felt like if she went into minorities, poke to part of her strategy. a lot of people were saying what people e base and the who voted for your husband, they are the people who will come out

and support you. people felt she was ignoring those people, and he will peep as wree saw, she never went back a state that obviously supported her before, supported her husband, you know, blue collar states like michigan. she had a problem in the primary, never really sought to fix that. i think she did try, i don't think it worked out for her. here was r strategy completely amiss and i think hat she was trying to do was fight the last war. john and i report extensively in the book, she didn't have her strategy about how to cull all the people together and ring the party together, particularly after the primary, the gruelling primary, a lot of lotie sanders supporters, a of millennials didn't feel the need to come out and support her. mr. allen. guest: i was going to say before the west virginia primary in 2008, i'm paraphrasing. she said we will win west

irginia because white people are for her campaign. i'm not sure everyone forgot that. isten to what the caller just said. 2016, she targeted her message voters, to minority particularly in the primary as needed.win delegates she by the time the general election, she had alienated the workers part class of her base in 2008 and i think some of the minority voters who was talking at she about in 2008 weren't that excited about what they were hearing. with african american turnout in big swing states and i think president was able to win enough of to e of minority voters obviously win the electoral college and the presidency. michigan is john in for our guest. caller: hi there. biggest things to cost hillary's campaign fail was when she was honest a couple times and called half of

deplorable and she said she was going to put the and miners out of business laughed about it. destroyed herself by doing those two things. then you have tom perez at the came out and actually said that you cannot be pro-life a democrat and dick perez confirming what said. the d.n.c. and democratic party havemajor problem and they to start communicating better telling theand quit truth, that is my comment. host: let both of you run with allen?mr. guest: it is not often party's advice to quit telling the but you know, the caller makes a good point, hillary give us a eared to window into her thinking in those episodes. the truth is we're probably not

up a iety going to open whole lot more coal mines over years.t 10, 15 more about the way she said it, impression she was insensitive about it. the argument she was making was we're not going to be able to bring back coal jobs, ere is how we'll transition worker intoes new economies. i actually have heard many other emocrats make that same argument and not get the blow back. to explain, may be particular to her, may be a gender thing. heard democrats say the same thing. as far as deplorables go, i on't think it is beneficial to any candidate ever to slam any segment of the american public, it just doesn't come off well, either to voters they votersgeting or often to they are not targeting. host: amie parnes. guest: uh-huh. made the comments before, behind the scenes, i do not think they sensed a problem.

john and i esting, reported in the book, as soon as his happened, they felt the need her campaign felt the need, knew it was a problem and put statement walking it back and i think they felt good about that. but that weekend led to a 9/11 ul weekend for her, weekend and people saw her fall, take a fall, that video played a while with no explanation from her campaign as to what happened, why she was there was a rumor she was fighting an illness. think this led to what else are they hiding, what else is of g on behind the scenes the campaign and there was frustration building up there. i think it was culmination of things, a lot of trust this.sly played into but it definitely led, i think, to donald trump's victory. larry, florida, republican line. know, i wrote ou

some things down here. i think one thing ironically the internet age the democrats touted kind of worked in their here.ent the dems need to move more to and second point i want to make, the democrats need address character and morality issues within their own political elite. worry about whether republicans do something or not, but, you know, again, it is the rats are ge shown because of the light. point, i think the democratic party needs to on a t infrastructure bipartisan basis. right now the democrats are so on trashing trump, that they're losing themselves. out with your own programs and offer something to american people and move more to the center. i tell you what, the radical

left, they got, the democrats got to quit patronizing them and the ng them to move to center. i think the whole democratic party would do a lot better if and move to the center could actually, you know, win some seats in the house and senate. got you, larry. amie parnes, one thing we saw come out after the campaign was unity reform ed commission. what is it, how does that apply democratic partys as it stands today? guest: well, i think first of the caller is right and we're hear thanksgiving from a lot of people there is a divide the party about which direction it goes. there are a lot of people, the faction, nders elizabeth warren faction, want to take it more to the left and like vice president biden, potential candidate for he's essentially saying, look, barack obama and i bringing ed on everyone together. our party doesn't need to attack

center, appeal to all this. i think he is right, also, the in the party t can't be anti-trump, it needs to message for -- lure give into the polls and people a reason they are voting. that is one reason the obama successful. it had optimistic message, you know, hope and change and out and gave to le aspirational reason believe. that is something the clinton ampaign lacked and a lot of people are looking toward a future figure who can kind of do hat, be the modern version of the democratic party and kind of democratic hat the party needs. you know, the old-fashioned democratf what being a means. i think the party has gotten away from that. to t of people are trying bring it back. host: mr. allen. guest: you asked about the unity

commission, it may not beaptly named, there is not the commission designed to rewrite or rules,mine the democratic nominating rules etcetera, they fighting, there has been a huge war that has got on sanders the clinton and people. and frustration at clinton people at the chair because she all the clinton people wanted her to do every single time. inis a party that is sort of search of a leader and in search moment.ection at the they will certainly benefit from in the mid-term election to some degree, anti-trump sentiment within the party being unifying force. really figured out what the next step is for them and we had hillary clinton, who trying to be the next barack obama, and trying to be the next bill clinton term and pull those

threats together and specific to whether just too difficult to do. done, unable to get it at least in way that resulted in being president. the next leader, there is a attle between the push left or push center and a lot of people both.ying, you have to do not sure if many people have figured out that magic bullet to both. host: democrat's line, approximate pennsylvania, john, good morning. caller: good morning, i was a supporter, i voted for hillary in the end. is, where was paul james carville, why didn't she use those people? electoral id of the college. we're ending up with the second best in both elections we had winners.e that is my question and i'll hangup and listen. host: mr. allen.

very short answer tis difficult to do that, basically have to rewrite the constitution to get that done. -thirds of each chamber of congress and three quarters of he states or constitutional convention. these are things that are very ogistically very difficult to do. you know, in terms of carville both still, they are in contact with president ability certainly had to communicate with hillary clinton. abala involved with priority usa, big democratic super fact. there are people that are part were not the ut quarterback. host: amie parnesa, who was -- go ahead. i think a lot of the reason was that hillary clinton third degree to be her campaign, not his campaign. third degree to be her se of drawing a red line and separating his side from her side and you saw him kind of home for aident stay while. he was playing behind the scenes

role, but you didn't really see come out and campaign for the iowa right before caucus, a strategy designed to let her run the show. learned some lessons from that in 2008. ost: amie parnes, who was the one hillary clinton would listen to for better or for worse? guest: that is a complicated question because i think she was people.g to a lot of the thing about hillary clinton, all these people around her, peep frel her time. the senator from her time at the white house, as first lady, as secretary of state and all these ear.le are talk nothing her she has her husband and his wing of people. hard.s really as john and i report in the people, john top podesta and monk didn't always

get along. stopped talking to her campaign manager at wob point. freshly reported in our book. there was a huge problem who she terms of listens to and what the pecking and internal factions fighting, this all led to her loss. ahead.o guest: to amie's point. this become is essentially the on how to blow a presidential campaign. to amie's point, a ton of in-fighting which isn't helpful. the end of the day comes back to how the date and candidate is making decisions and what are things informing he decisions who are people informing the decisions and ultimately this is a candidate that should have had every in the world in terms she had to oney, pick a strategist to get through

the emocratic primary and general election. he was coming off president obama's presidency, the economy fnot doing gang buster, it was doing reasonably well and her prez sessor was popular, he was the wife of a former president, who even people who don't like him give him credit as campaigner. things, she by the way, ran for president before, doing, or she was should have known what she was doing. huge ded up kicking away leads in the poll and ultimately losing to donald trump by the margins.t of host: little over minute, what mpelled you to make the addendum to the book? wanted us publisher to do it for the paperback. we continued to report, we the book people after comes out originally, people call and tell you what they call and tell buthings they knew that didn't end up in the book. enough ought, there is

more material here that makes sense to do it there, there are reported in here. sort of interesting angle going democratic ar, the candidates may be mayors, we hear about mayors and why they candidates in 2020. host: mrs. amie parnes. agree with john, a lot of questions as to why she lost and how we ended up with donald play out today. we tried to do that, dissect that as best as possible in the book. the new chapter provides insight. a lot of people say russia james comey , played a role. the point of the book, she had into this tage going race. his was hers to lose, yet she ended up losing and she should have ended up really doing a the in a damage and winning very big way. this is what we tried to layout in the book and this and hapter backs up that

shows evidence about what went wrong during the campaign and ow her campaign didn't do her -- yeah. host: got you. talking with the authors of the hillaryattered," inside clinton's doomed campaign. jonathan allen and amie parnes. break for a brief pro forma session of the house. d.

joy. remain in the field, less me nair yuss winds scattered hate and despair. jesus, make us bearers of your light to dispel any darkness so your house is kept swept. lest our joy become lost. et this house become as thine, a house of prayer.

o, divine master, grant we may not so much seek as to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love, for it is in giving that we receive. it is in pardoning that you pardus -- pardon us. for it was in dying that you gave us eternal life. in jesus name, amen. the speaker pro tempore: amen. pursuant to section 3-a of house resolution 839, the journal of the last day's proceedings is approved. the chair will lead the house in the pledge of allegiance. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

the chair lays before the house a communication. the clerk: the honorable the speaker, house of representatives, sir. i hereby tender my resignation from my office in the united states house of representatives effective at midnight, friday, april 27, 2018. it has been an honor and a privilege to serve the people of the seventh district of pennsylvania. god bless the commonwealth of pennsylvania and the united states of america. signed sincerely, patrick l. meehan. the speaker pro tempore: under ause 5-d of rule 20, the chair announces to the house that in light of the resignation of the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. meehan, the whole number of the house s 428. pursuant to section 3-b of

house resolution 839, the house stands adjourned until 9:30 a.m. on thursday, may 3, 2018. proceedings of the house of representatives. back to calls for our guests. amie parnes and jonathan allen, co-authors of the book shattered," 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8001 for republicans. independents, 202-748-8002. redding, california, democrat's line, susan, good morning. the caller: hi, good morning, thank for taking my call. i am calling about the hillary democratic the party. i was just wondering if the just wasn't hillary's ersonality because in the

past ats trying to go on successes. he caller was talking about carville. i voted for hillary. for bern ly voted better than. he didn't get flustered by trump. did.ary she didn't have much of a sense of humor at all. humor against ed trump, hillary or whoever needed humor and fight. flustered with trump, it tipped the scale, i think that caused the whole campaign to tip the scales and they needed somebody tough, like bernie that flustered by trump or anybody else, and kept going and sticking to the subject. got you, susan, mr. allen. trying myself n and funny bit top

my whole life. difficult tight rope to walk, if the caller would like. it is impossible to measure a factor in s elections, but i think we all that is a huge factor in elections. there is a question of who does feel is going to have their interest in mind, who does them, who feel like does the voter feel they do like. , interesting, a lot of people voted against president rump because of his personality, not because of his policy, but a lot enjoyed the show. and that was charisma thing. guy who is successful television star, he's obviously able to command attention in a way that have been able to before. dryer, lary clinton is policy, she believed that was her strength, i think that is strength, she thinks about issues and gets into the swedes

of them. jump ility to make the limited.cy was she doesn't have charisma of bush, of bill clinton or donald trump. is hillary arnes clinton different than the hillary clinton we see off camera? you talk to her aides, a lot of them say yes. i have g john and written two books about her. a lot of people throughout the and , we sat down interviewed them, they said, she's different behind the fun and he gre garruous, and everyone loves her, if there is a sick relative, first to the relative or send a note. reluctant has been her whole life to make that impression publicly. to live her public life privately and that is a problem for her. there were tweaks in the

campaign made, particularly in of 2015, where her staff and roll to come out out funny hillary clinton and the "new d that and york times" wrote a story about here comes funny hillary warm-hearted and i think a lot of people were put off by that. of people around her said, why would you need to telegraph why does it seem contrived, here is a big problem for her. aides and john and i did, they calld that an it should have come more organically without around her h personality. >> part of the issue for watched over ime, her humor, the people she pays, hais abundant, watch out people you pay say you are

funny. er humor is often biting and sarkastic and white and smart and fast. necessarily translate well in political campaign. doesn't work well on television, for whatever reason, few people are able to get sarcasm.th i think it might be a mismatch. here is somebody who has success in the way but not appeals to voters through television. florida, lauderdale, perry, hi there. caller: please forgive me, i'm getting over mouth surgery. two things, first, hillary had for siness running president if she's under investigation for e-mails. for investigation anything. considering her losing was the that could happen. we needed a republican to win so actually bring out what

the republicans are doing in the house and senate. aving trump was the best, he went and let doning do whatever they wanted. and the of congress house getting done, he calls up and says get nell her done, no way to run the government. letting what, by they icans rule, and what did with healthcare and the tax working out better for the democrats. elected, him getting we had protests and protests began, people getting out and and people getting out for the vote and realizing mistakes they made by not voting last couple of midterms. thanks.t you, perry, mr. jonathan allen, you start. guest: i hope mr. perry recovers his mouth surgery as

quickly and fully as possible. yeah. am not sure that any party is really served best in the short erm or long-term by allowing the other party to have power and get things they want to done. idea. is interesting i think we're going to see midterm.in the democrats are going to pick up seats if not take control of the house. tougher to figure out, likely fewer republicans in washington and january, as a result part of public backlash against the president. mid-term is in most elections, it is not unique to president trump. >> moderator: amie parnes. guest: yeah, i think that is right, as john said, in 2010, resident obama talked about shellacking his party received. i think that is coming. republicans, i do i ee with the caller in that think what this did, unionified

eep and he will got people motivated to turn out against trump, but as we talked about earlier, i think there needs to be a lot more the party to in kind of lure people together to get people out to the polls, people a reason to vote, again, and that i don't think remains to be seen about how the party actually accomplishes that. a hink that continues to be problem for the party. guest: harder to get on the hat, people reason to vote again, sounds like democratic version. host: "shattered," co-authors jonathan allen here, amie parnes in new york. good morning to all. of a couple things, first all, i voted for obama in 2008. hillary lost me on a couple levels. i was working class guy working

goinge rail road, she was after coal miners, thinking about my job. same token, she was wanting to in refugees and immigrants, nothing racist about t, it didn't make sense to me, i didn't need to go get new skills. tax e other hand our dollars going to pay for immigrants and refugees, will be an issue in the future anyway. on that note, i would also say, too far left, i was a clinton supporter, voted for obama in 2008. little wild and ooney, doing a good job f. democrats don't change their ways, he will get another four years. we talked about influence on the democratic party, what about the republican party, been in trump has office a year, where does it stand in your opinion? you start., guest: i think the republican party is in trouble. there is division, a lot of

people are anti-trump within the party. a lot of people are frustrated with what he's done to the party. and there is turmoil building, whether or not he gets 2020 remains, someone like john kasich could him.against a lot of republicans want to see a challenger. remains, it will play out in a big way, i think. yeah, both parties are searching or their identity, you know, democrats are trying to decide, do we go too far left in twept16, do we continue to attack that way. saying, was this too extreme, was donald trump an extreme pick for us and what is doing, conservatives in particular, what is he doing to the party? doing a little soul searching. host: mr. allen. uest: you can read about the dynamics in the book, pedro.

democratic and republican party some ways in similar position a few years apart. he democratic party became the obama party. this has always been true, you over, winsident takes presidency and the party that person.to to greater degree than in the past, that was true of democrats 2008 election of president obama who started his own organizing for america that was supposed to be sort of outside of the d.n.c. structure. now the licans are trump party. there is a republican national money, but it raises ultimately the tone, the message, the policy, everything set by president trump and anybody who walks off the line isthe trump republican party considered to republicanism and i think that is going to case for as e the long as president trump is there. money and outside

public frustration with the party and party system in means that we are moving more and more in that direction where voters are ooking for somebody who is outside the party, somebody not a creature of the party. not as true of obama as trump, but true of bernie sanders, who democraticed off the primary upset, despite going up against a legacy of the clinton family. host: in writing about those dynamics, our guests write as of look at growing field candidates, democrats were ertain they needant dote to trump for the political pendulum. hat is less clear, opposite reaction voters will be looking for. democrats are in search for set f policies and message that could defeat the heated trump, the party lacked consensus on who could deliver that. shortage of untested hopefuls who believe they could. parnes, you hint at people who could be that person. who are we missing? ny dark horses that could be considered at this point?

guest: i think a lot of people are interested in someone like mitch landrew, mayor of new orleans. talked about how new crop are coming up, people looking at saying,going forward and why not give someone a fresh this.a try at i think someone like landrew, looking at newby like newbi to arris, washington. xcited about prospects like that happening. there had are people, dark horses and i think it will be see if democrats want someone like that or if bidenwant someone like joe or someone who has been tested nd been around and that is interesting to see in the direction of the party. allen?mr. guest: i think we will have to

wait to watch this. mentioned camille harris, sanders. never-ending list of people running for president. ric holder, every time i pick up the newspaper a new democrat running for president. country, democrats, voting age population, 100 democrats in the country or 65 million voted for hillary clinton. of them seem to be running for president, all 65 million. don't think we're going to know for a while what the energy is in the democratic party, where it wants to go. bernie sanders and his group are going to be a force. operation and s continued to maintain it and be politically active. democrats don't want to think about that and don't talk about it. whether or not bernie sanders is nominee, he and his supporters will be a force in that process. i would just g

sort of mention here, the republicans have, i think 17 in the last election war and gfest, brutal donald trump emerged, not to make it sound like a reality t.v. show. the survivor.ly not just survivor, he knocked else out. very good chance you will see that same kind of dynamic on the side.ratic the person who is able to defeat everyone else is seen as on trump by take virtue of the fact they survived that. i think the days of political anointing somebody as their next presidential candidate are over. cincinnati, ohio, republican line, mary, you are on with our guests. go ahead. you.er: thank yes, the one word we got to understand is respect. we do have it, the men give it to the women, we just got to teach this pride. what it is, is self-esteem, deeds for integral

ways to maintain this planet. got to ther word we've understand and get rid of it want to ," what do you hurt for? why do you have to have a sick realm? is sick. we don't need that, we need to the word and change to "camplan." wanda, democrat's line. go ahead. caller: thanks for taking my call. think what happened with hillary's campaign and her losing had a lot to do with how democrats tried to smear bernie sanders. adult young children who are adults now and they are upset and they were so with the democratic party and how they did bernie sanders and -- i don't even know if the democrats can get the trust of the younger people back unless they do something a whole lot different and try not somebody like bernie

sanders. bernie sanders is still very popular with the younger people going to have a isl shot at it if the d.n.c. honest and doesn't try to smear him. have to eally all i say. i think that was big mistake the .n.c. did, they did it behind closed doors. i know they changed the head of the d.n.c., but there should punishment put out for the woman that did that. host: to both of you, cutalk bernie at and where sanders, his feeling, i guess, or how they feel toward each this day, mr. allen, you start. guest: there is no love lost. you know, as we write in the paperback extension today.book out there's been a fight over who the dead carcas of the d.n.c. want the ople machinery, they don't want to get, for lack of a better term. term. find a better

they don't want to get screwed again, they hinery want control of that, want ontrol of the rules, the clinton folks do not want to give that up. rguably spent more time, the clinton folks, wrestling for control of the d.n.c. than fighting donald trump since the campaign. certainly on a public level, you that ch more energy into internal thing and hillary clinton has to fight the fact so and say she o out should have no role, shouldn't speak publicly, all of which is plenty of things on which she can weigh in that are ot necessarily politically explosive or hurt her party. focus on the- that democratic national committee, animosity how much between the two sides. host: mr. amie parnes? uest: one of the most fascinating pieces, i think, in 2016, millennial women didn't up to support secretary

clinton on election day. fascinating and throughout, these are a lot of supported ple who bernie sanders, who didn't feel the need, felt like hillary had done him wrong, the party had done him wrong and they weren't willing to come out her.support i think the party will have to work hard to win back some of people and as john said earlier, it is going to be less appointed and someone the inevitable candidate and more about someone, the wanting and rallying behind. partiville hink the to work to get those supporters out to the polls. arizona, all in independent line. hi, go ahead. caller: good morning. morning, america and c-span listeners. appreciate the post-mortem on what everybody is talking about, however, i haven't heard one solution. want to ne solution i

propose. next election, as in every lection, resolve myriad of complexity by simply going to the voting booth and if it says incumbent under a person's name, cocomo, r joe blow from vote for nonincumbents, we the people have the power of the we haven't exercised to usual because we go suspect. never heard anything from roger humphrey.skip instead of thinking how it has and go outside the box back to what the founding fathers said, we the people. all right. host: all right. take that to both of you, then, do you think the age of the outside candidate is with s in future elections considering what we learned from the last election? guest: hard to know what the next pendulum swing would be,

of not just tion recent history, but considering what we learned bey is you always have to be candidate. if you think, jimmy carter ran candidate, ronald candidate.side george w. bush did not do that, candidacy. george w. bush, despite being of president, ran out outsider candidate. he ran that way. barack obama, state legislator, capitol he steps of coming from the outside, campaign based in chicago, outsider mp, candidate. only people insiders more or outsiders and s integral to them winning, you hillary clinton didn't try to do that, arguable it would be it or -- she done perhaps would have allowed her,

muddy w, in some way to that picture with trump. americans i think always think if is better to have washington outsider clean p washington even though they are really not donald trump was a political outsider in terms of somebody who had none of the trappings of power and and political influence. amie parnes. guest: that is why people gravitate toward somebody like bernie sanders. washington and had experience. he kind of brought issues to the wanted free college and he spoke to issues of the think many d, so i ways i think secretary clinton was trying to do that, as well, for her obviously to portray herself as someone who do that and be the

outsider. i think that is why senator sanders was successful, he was able, you know, his campaign of was very grass-roots sort of campaign, got people people to donate small amounts like barack obama. that hink the key here is people need to feel like they are involved, need to feel like momentum and the reason for them to support the person and that was something i clinton hadecretary kind of coming into the campaign that people forget about, a hillary led ready for that was kind of building up people and asm for somehow or another it didn't quite work out, the campaign in the elieve organization and got thrown out the window. needsk a winning campaign that support behind it. host: from republican line in is next., john caller: yes, i'm one of them and i would like each of your guests to come down to tennessee, did they hear trump the other day when he said

foothills out of the and everywhere else in the so find out why we voted for trump, if you can. when you hillary, f t calling people names, igure out what she stands for, murdering baby, marriage to homosexuals and you hangup on me you can't take the truth. this show should be checked out if this is by , the government, they need to cut half the money off or get -- let me stop you there, a, we are not funded by the government. b, you said what you said and we are able to say it without being cut off, we'll leave it at that. where of hillary clinton, do we see her role in future campaign, either as candidate or influence, mr. allen? guest: as we report in the book, she aid on election night will never be a candidate again.

i think that is something you can believe her on. i think that, you know, history judge her, i think in a much better way than she's moment, they are going to be two-dimensionalization of illary clinton, true of all historical figures, over time, we'll forget about the little campaign hin the itself or within the campaign, ltimately she will be seen as blaze a lot of trails and when a woman is elected united states whether democrat or republican, that woman will stand on hillary shoulders, this is blaze a lot somebody immensely important figure in politics over the last continue to be. so, you know, i think she is about what her legacy is going to be and figure out ing to how to participate in politics now in way that makes it better, not worse. day, i don't think anything she does will

ave a big impact on that 50 years from now, kids will read about her in textbook, first lady who ran for president's wife, won nomination the first time and was polarizing figure. maybe and was a tremendously polarizing figure. historians will have better answers as to why those things were. >> the is turmoil going on about how she plays a role going forward in the party. a lot of people i have spoken to say she should follow what president obama did. he comes in when he feels the need to weigh in on messages, on important issues, and then take a backseat for the rest of it.

she is not quite willing to do that yet. she is trying to walk a fine line and figure out what that balance is. she has a lot of supporters. she will go down in the history books as one of the most important female political figures in our history. it is a tricky balance. she is trying to figure out what that is. the organization, the clinton organization has changed since she lost. there is no structure or strategy, and freewheeling. they are trying to figure out how the way forward -- whether another run will happen. host: the book is called shattered. guests, thank you for joining us this morning.

that is it for the program today. we will join you at 7:00. see you then. ♪ >> here is a look at our live programming coming up. newly confirm secretary of state mike pompeo addresses state department employees. we will take you there live. later, rod rosenstein comments on the role of the in the first amendment and the mission of the justice department. he will be marking law day. you can see that at 2:00

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