what can be done to prevent crime and violence in el salvador. the problems of transnational bank activity, human rights abuses, and the migration of some dorians to the u.s.. dorians to the united states. ais is about an hour and half. >> good afternoon. the law program. we are delighted to welcome you thisnd to join you for discussion. in recent weeks, this country has been consumed by images of

undocumented immigrants being separated from their children --er the administration's the border crisis has provoked a renewed discussion of the root causes driving migrants to leave their countries and make the dangerous journey to the united states. today we will dive into el salvador. el salvador has made strides after the war that left so many dead. it has a democracy with regular elections. despite the transition to peace and democracy, el salvador remains an extremely violent place. it has one of the highest homicide levels in the world.

42% of small businesses suffer extortion. successive governments have to stop the spread. police, struggling to contain crime epidemics, have faced extrajudicial execution. human rights violations are high despite notable exceptions such as a conviction last week of four police officers of homicide. alongside these challenges, el salvador wrestles with the legacy of its past.

clearing the way for prosecutors to reopen and victims to seek justice. some argued this detracts from present day challenges and others argue impunity for past atrocities is to blame for the week rule of law that has emerged. today we are fortunate to benefit from three perspectives on the challenges facing el salvador and the broader question of how past and present efforts to strengthen the rule of law relate to one another. to my left is the country representative for el salvador on --she leads a project

-- and usaid during the obama administration. attorney whoorian heads the program on impunity. ands investigations advocacy on issues relating to guarantees for past armed conflicts and certain conflicts in latin america. government as a commissioner for the national commission for the search for disappeared persons. professor ofate international peace and conflict resolution and a nonresident senior fellow at the workings institute. he works on human rights and please send it justice reform and has conducted field research

. in 2012-2014 served as a senior advisor in the state department your love conflict and stabilization operations, where line.o kept me in he lived in a settlement for monthsed persons for 15 from 1987-1988 and published it transition from war to peace. delighted to welcome them and i am sure this will be a terrific conversation with relating expert.

you are from el salvador but based in washington. you listened to the debates we had about the root cause of migration. what comes to your mind? what is the city getting right? what are we missing in terms of conditions driving migrants from el salvador to make the journey to the united states? >> thank you. thank you to american dialogue internationalt for organizing this interesting conversation. migration int central america, what comes to my mind is that we are looking crisisntial humanitarian

so the united states needs to adopt a humanitarian approach and responses. take allan people kinds of risks to come to that country. that is for reason. and it is well-known that el salvador, crime as comparable as wartime. the violence is causing a new wave of internal or international displacement. the violence comes from different sources. but it is largely due to local groups and gangs, right?

in many middle-class neighborhoods and most poor communities, gangs impose their own rules. children and young men are often whilered to join gangs, young women often experience a different kind of sexual assault. extortion is widespread. public transportation industry, and in general, there must it i -- poor people are the most heavily hit by this kind of violence. domestic violence is also a factor in the decision to immigrate for many women and children. different research shows el salvador is one of the most -- dangerous places in the world to be a woman. right?

the female homicide rate is amongst the highest in the world. another major part of this violence and why people come into this country is because weak,nstitutions are rough.ient, many often find no protection from local authorities so leaving is the only solution. of course there is no magical response to this violence and there are difficult problems with long-term strategy. comprehensivea strategy. implying there should

not be any rules, right? any migration rules, as other countries in the world. but we need to have in mind that children and families arriving at this border are human beings facing life-threatening situations at home and during their journey and they deserve our and patrick -- they deserve our empathy. a significant role the united states has played in el salvador over decades, there is at the very least a moral obligation to shelter the ones who enter. thank you. leonor paints a pretty grim

picture. salvadoran state struggling? >> right. well, thank you again. we went to el salvador a number of years ago and she is quite an expert and it would be an honor to work with her in el salvador. one key thing that comes to mind is impunity and why it is so much of a challenge to tackle. you have about 92% of crimes they go unpunished. so that sends a message that anything can happen because no one will be punished. so that is definitely an issue the country is trying to grapple

with. you have crimes that were committed before the war from the time of the war and the issues remain the same. hope i wouldt of think through the finding of the amnesty law unconstitutional. a lot of these cases will be looked into. there is an effort by the attorney general's office to establish historic crime team to look at these cases. part of the project we do and assistance we provide is to those looking to escape. go,e is a lot of waste to but looking at the important cases we can set the president it does not matter when the

crime was committed or now, that it is not going to be allowed. that is a strong message. so impunity will not be a factor i would say. but also i think that being highly polarized politically, it seems like every two or three in elis an election time salvador so it is never really the right time but when is the right time? you know? when? eachdress insecurity, administration is coming from different perspective. positive a lot of of the in terms international community and how we are all trying to align our efforts to target key municipalities work crime is quite high. that is a positive aspect. that there are other measures

taken that may not be as helpful, right? everything has to be factored in. there is no magic wand. ofinitely impunity is one the most concerning aspects of moving beyond that. check, to stay on the law enforcement side of things. you had a long relationship in el salvador. you been there recently and spoke with the policymaker and scholar. one is she looked at is the creation of a national organization. what is your take on how the nc has evolved and how all of this can be laid at the feet of the place? >> it is an honor to be here with the panel and here the dialogue.

thank you to counterpart as well. know.k it is hard, you el salvador is one of these countries that has seen most of a transition from political violence to social violence. there is still political violence, but it is much reduced in scale and social and criminal violence is much higher. butas much as an guatemala, it is important. i think the story of that transition and the role of the police in the transition, most itple in this room know that was a way to get them to agree without incorporating themselves

into the armed forces, but to actually have 20% px national police members and 50% the combatant. so it was a real success story in terms of emigrating to a large extent working alongside each other. there were already difficult there, right? but the most important thing is there was a dramatic reduction in the number of people policing the country in the months after the peace agreement was signed in 1992 and 1993. 1993, you have homicide rates going very high and 1994, you have, ironically, two of the most successful in the world, south africa and el salvador having the highest in the world by 1994. that is before the gangs took up the kind of power and influence they have. part of the story is the gap of the transition between old security forces mobilized and the new ones created. that sets the stage you have a police force with really high

marks in my dissertation for example, it in the mid-1990's, but then experienced increasing problems and corruption and political rivalries and attempts to politicize became worse. that reform effort became relatively mixed, i would say. most would still consider the pnc to be the most professional police force in the triangle, but still has a lot of problems. i do not think pnc is at the heart of the problem. the problem is the impunity that exists. one word that unites the migration challenge with the impunity challenge is fear. a lot of people are fleeing el salvador because of fear, insecurity, and violence. but not everyone. there are economic migrants, certainly. i know some of them.

there are migrants who are violent, certainly. i know many who are legal and illegal in the country. you cannot discount the factor of fear and that underlines the fear of judges that make decisions and put people in jail, and put prosecutors on the job when they want to. the police do the arrests happening. there are gangs going after the police and their families in the last few years. i think that is one of the issues confronting the police. the police are part of that picture and so are the prosecutor's offices and the courts. and so are the witnesses who are fell for going forward -- who are fair -- and so are the witnesses who are fearful going forward. that is one of the issues confronting the police and the police are part of the picture and so are the prosecutors's

office and the courts and so are the witnesses that are fearful going forward. gang violence in particular, i would say. michael: how to we get at the impunity problem in el salvador? mileydi: the fear is at the heart of many people in el salvador. this is the legacy, reparation issue. here, it is thinking there will be, that they will have to pay really high if they do the job because there is a really strong sense that going against the law is a better way to keep their job. many judges and prosecutors don't want to apply the law. because there is a really strong sense that going against the law is the better way to be protected, right? and keep their job. so it is the opposite of what it should be. many judges and prosecutors, they do not want to apply the law, right? general, the amnesty law

contributionmade a . a really significant contribution to be discussing impunity issues and the legacy of the past atrocities. so it has been two years and now the amnesty law. we see the national courts are .lowly beginning four different judges in el salvador lower courts and small towns have reopened. four of the most emblematic and highly sensitive cases. the archbishop, the killing of and the twoits

women working for them, the of the well-known case of 1000 forces killed. of these four cases, the only one making its way through the is 18 formerem military members who are on trial right now. general'storney office is also in a very timid way trying to find their own this and their own role in investigation, right? so far, the attorney general's office created a special unit to investigate historic crimes,

step,is a remarkable right? it's a recognition that they need a special prosecutor to deal with this. small far this unit is prosecutors. of it is the project we have been talking about. it is also for the first time in el salvador at the end of the war a dialogue between prosecutors and civil society. beyond all of this, it in terms of the amnesty law there is the opportunity in el salvador to debatingspaces for

official narratives and talking in public about the expense of the victims and even the experience of the perpetrators, right? so this is very important and also very challenging in a polarized country. so, we do not have to miss this chance of dealing with the past and trying to use that experience to deal with the present and prevent a repetition of this atrocity. is a add, i think it salvadoroment in el and the way it is dealing with past crimes. as the attorney general said before, he's like, this is a pending debt they hold.

i think it has been a remarkable process. it has only been two years since the court ruling, but to be able to see angioplasty human rights offenders who for so long, 25 years, continued to push forward their own different cases but to be able to come together and try to be able to articulate one not policy but guidance for attorney general's to consider when they are looking at cases is pretty impressive. about three months ago, all of the ngo's got together and provided guidelines for the attorney general because they have a lot of information that a terminal general doesn't have. witnesses, locations. a huge amount of information. it is a small team. they are overwhelmed.

there are over 150 cases they are looking at and there are only five prosecutors. one of the efforts the on the we have athink is duration. we want this to be sustainable. it is reaching out to other donors that have an interest in partnering up, right? interest fromof colombia, chile, guatemala, and can strengthen the effort.

>> i'm trying to link this with what we're seeing, that is one of the challenges with the legacy of the past. there is an evolution mentioned, what is commonly related to as the nature. especially the gang-generated violence. there has been kind of a discouraging trend i would say towards state-sponsored violence cases that have actually gone to trial and convictions of police officers. u.n. officer was in the country and found a pattern, not a policy but a pattern of use of excessive force and executions. whatis the challenge and

is el salvador doing to address it? >> i think there's a reason why you had six different special repertoires visiting in a span of five months last her, including the last one. it has been reported. it is nothing new. it is something we have seen. in terms particularand the fulfilled byns are the state meaning we are working and the institutions primarily minister of justice the attorney general's office and ensuring things they need to do right we can get them to that is not tour position outspoken in the process. if there is a bridge for lack of

ongoing word but it is process. we had the opportunity tow work i the police. we look forward. needs to be done. the case you just mentioned, i ago, 14 military officials were indicted for 14 prison for use of force. the visits and recommendations i think is government officials thensider the way they view problem. is a preand aere service, so i think they know it is important.

one of them touches on the excessive use of force, so it has been reported by the human report of the state since 2014. it is addressing and getting them to apply the human rights standards. you have soon the stu dyed peace building all over the world, is is differentg that about el salvador or lessons you should be drawing from other places, are there things

that confronted that are relevant for places columbia which is memming then trying to em ply am peace corps? >> yeah. there are certain things where dore is on the far end of the scale. sense ofose is a high which violent cripple and homicides and extorsion in particular reflect at gang activity. in elang activity salvador are especially by gang druge not linked to trafficking organizations as opposed to hon durs are and guatemala. a link.e is but in the pops of 18th street and ms-13.

it makes it a little bit different. the importance of the 18th street gang and ms 13 is out there on that scale. it makes it a little to different than all of the other postwar cases. having said that, that is really difficult. i want to say that one things -- one of the things you see in el salvador, and part of what we see an election coming up -- we have a two-party system. that two-party system -- both of those parties have shown inability to address both economic challenges and security challenges and again violence. after two terms of this, there is more acceptance of that. they have tried different things. they tried a truce which did bring down homicide rates dramatically. that is one of the ways we know that gang violence is responsible for a lot of the homicides in the country. when this government came into power, they really tried to shut

down these prisons. they said we are going to get serious about this. that elicited a war between the police and the gangs that had the consequences that we have had between them that we have been talking about. there has been a backing off of that. there is nothing unambiguously worked in all of this. we had a lot of prevention activity. there are lots of other ideas funding this. we saw one in el salvador. it is actually hard to get a grip on what to be successful. having said that, some of the things are generalizable. one of the things that many of us have one, a lot of colombians recognize this. peace process, you know, x combatants that become

demobilized have guns. they know how to make money from guns, there are well organized. they are used to people being afraid of them. if they don't have jobs, it is easy to them to turn to illicit activities, especially if they have been involved in illicit activities for decades. the possibilities that we are already seeing that many of us talked about in 2014 and 2015 of common crime and organized crime having new faces and forms of organization. all of those things are serious challenges that international actors and civil society actors and political actors must show respond to. especially in terms of remote areas, that is a crucial challenge in a place like

columbia. >> continuing with this theme, an article recently. it is a really interesting argument you make about accountability for past crimes benefiting the current battle impunity in el salvador. the connection of that? >> dealing today with types of can provide saturdays state first with

so what police and prosecutors can learn from, you know, searching for people doing work and in some way applied appearances and the same complex creams and killings in the past. is that itone restorts credibility in institutions so when society see that institutions are given an effective response, they will better. thed we assume the value of life and dignity of all times, ok. fourth, it sends really strong

message that no one is right, right? go up prosecuted. if the ones that were killing 1,000r people can be held accountable, who can, rating? breaks cycles of im poon ty and corruption, right? in some case, the same experts, at least the same pattern are repeating the present, or in times we are seeing the case in guatemala, military officers charged for crimes against humanity.

with a great response to the military strategies during the war. but even more importantly, who havef those beenable charged play a key role into powers of today, right? people responsible for the military strategies during the no part of organized crime and corruption. thenow were very close to president. right? i can not say that is not the that is not what happened. can see there needs to be more research. investigations to

uncover. , in general,ople what we see now, what we know that there are in the ways that crimes are being committed. right? so a criminal group now are imitating the same similar method that were used by militaries over guerrillas during the war. second link between that is the protecting a victim in general. is theird link is instead of responses

improving and that is ul, right? salvador, it seems really strong voices especially voices are pushing for not past and trying to focus on the present i think that there is enough evidence around the that you cannot forget what happened. go in cycles. is important that now el tovador deals with the pasts benefit the current fighting. theo the argument for

community. mention the counter argument which you often hear that threatens civillability in el salvador. the left are threaten by picking the skeletons. you -- that was what your impact?on of the what would be your response to of tooument this is sort risky politically? when is thehink, rising time? if it is not now? when is the right time? i think in terms of the human givingoffenders, um, them a space right now to

governmentrk with institutions on addressing this is huge. significant step. it is significant. the question is more if they show -- technical chal ling terms of building the case but a political context in which happening.re how do you sort of wreck in with those with at the same time. >> yeah. the passing and the present, right. >> well, look, the varies efforts that are happening with government efforts, the times now to make the investment. i mean victims of someone who her son to, you know,

thinkive use of force, i perspective,im's pain and agony is there and how government responds to these cases. yeah. my take it is the right time to do it. i think this government, the months that they had left to the extent we're working openness town an address issue. that geese long way. there is sometimes it is really alternative am dialogue, you know. this is the within approach. what else could be done? do that, the project has been working extends efly on building one ofe sessions with the populations and women in theh that are affected by gang violence and that is the population. when you talk about other issues

surfaced through a dialogue session. how do you get a point where makers are listening to them. it is what is happening and what executiveng at the level but very little, you know, taking place with human right thes to come in or just population at large, right? to be able to get into this dialogue and through the last months have been able to have the dialogue sessions where youth have said, you know what schwer tired of being tig matized. not everyone here is a gang we live pin the controlled '0's doesn't mean we to do with it. sol we have been able to work the police in building a dialogue of where police there youth. as result of that, they are creating a work plan or the country that takes into inform youth's input to

policymakers and at least the time that is left of the to really be able to make a department and particularly so yeah. creating spaces for other and approaches to are happen whether than one are constantly hearing. >> sew there is an active debate officials link between justice, admissions and so on, positively that is correlated with those and professor has done research on this and has found that there is a link between transitional justice mechanism combination of them factors andnsition other surveys are of academic haveature and others

repeated those by name and a little, it is not quite as clear. so i would be interested in your perspective on the kind of that debate, but also your perspective on el salvador particular and the degree to what you see the country's challenges in the connect and the way that the transition was happening. >> yeah. lived in eldy who sa salvador during the war and andthe people that i knew love being torture and killed when i was there in the libbed in iat i want to see accountable very who liveo most people in that country. they are separator perhaps. i think that there is evidence than most of us would like to see between

justice and its systemnd effective generally as opposed to human rights, right? so i think it is hard so in term cases and case throughout. there is not that conclusive transitionalen the justice and perform answer is terms of faith and justice system and judicial reforms and their success. having said that. there is a logic that lenoir has out. the demonstration effect. do you see people who have been bars and therefore you have more faith in the justice system. that arereforms institutional reform and other have takenforms that blase thement. -sponsored commission against guatemala and the commission against russia and honduras.

of resenen doing a lot on the last year are based on fek,kind of demonstration plight if you actually show high level cases can work. cases ofive more justice. prosecutors are willing to do their jobs and not worry and judges are more willing to actually send down the siths appropriate. -- ink it is going to be actually think in terms of the salvador, theel fear pondering about instake this is way bid overgrown and country talking very political differences well for most countries. it is a country that is former enemies pretty well and not just at the political level and the assembly but within the police force and other effects. is not, you know, this you know, there is a lot of people getting older now, right?

younger gen regses and lots of institution inned clog the military who want to see think that argument is not. the arming is more difficult is actually going to end impunity and cosomething about rye lens problem and homicides that create insecure in the country. more of an open question. el salvador is going through a transition. we got new attorney general in, supreme court justices, they have done a lot prosecutors and high they judges and will -- this new generation of system in the judicial would where else with the questions, right? on the past proceed as well as the terms of the present. how do you balance those things against one another in a world of limited resource and

competing priorities, so can you give us in cite into how those atrocities are working with the candidates, who are the candidates are and what you from the folks who thisbe entrusted in making desnigs. >> well, this is a critical year, right? generalgen attorney will have to be selected at the end of this year and there is ongoing election process for five new members of the supreme court, four of them will be the constitutional chamber. the new members of the supreme court and the new general should continue

the progress that they have made in terms of the fight against sessional and tran progress needss in time and p. right? , insecond thing is that general, the transitional justice processes or the processes we are seeing from the past and the most cases police abuses and the big corruption cases against the president are case that need real strong leadership, right?

robust knowledge of national and international kind ofs, this is the people that have other needs, right? strongly in nothing and moral and frk in leaders. in of this little baby steps terms of corruption and the fact against corruption and are happening in where the other two branches are given little support. little support. littleport. trying to not let the military make rog degrees, right? so there is not that kind of

to see.ation wee like so in that context, and this expecteds really not to change dramatically even if they went again. president,s with the we don't expect that would change dramatically, sob this needs very strong and pent judiciary and attorney general, right? to take seriously. that that is. again, i would like to have the that, but it is not or one formula to get that, of course, there

are important measures to be taken. to participate in every step of process in a very provocative way, right? i think it is growing in el salvador. i don't know, five years ago, ago, this processes were almost secret numbers. day, somebody knew, oh, a new attorney general, right? didn't really know about that and certainly to engage and to happen. the second one this process to international standards and international upan rights organization set

international panel of experts. to public a report on the current selection process of the of the supreme court and set up the recommendation operations of the very the supremeith court. i think that is fair that supportsonal community and other government need to experts toport these have processes. also need to support the new policies.

but to be aport that promotes to haven independence this leadership. >> perfect. >> so this conversation washington at least happened in the context of everything we have seen on the border. the immigration issue is often the prism through northernlook at the triangle. served u.s.a. and the white ande in the administration was similar there in washington about that time, unaccompanied children come over this border and the immediate to restopped the

what thet think about root cause is and why so many people are fleeing. you have spend time on the strategy that you put in place and how is it going? what more could the united states be doing? strategy moree effective? what should we be thinking about we have this conversation about root causes and el salvador? >> yeah. very good question. iny interesting to work washington and policy and actually getting tom plim it on the ground. so i actually feel honored and bothle to see it from sides just because it could be different perspective, rating you? the numbers. you work with different agencies here and the numbers recording see it on the ground is iole different dimension and

think one of the positive things proposed initially the central american strategy was the conditionalities that was set by congress in a think that is something we should continue to do. a blank check any more. no. you heed to deliver. need to show results. that i makes it better to doment, a government that and i think, the are well.ing to that as if you look at the strategy was am implemented million now, progress,been some sure, not only to migration but are in fact to tackle impunity. address the root cause of the migration. that is what the project and to do and it is it a short-term solution but has to happen now. that is what we're doing. hardlyhin i would

reinforce and support the conditionalities and i think the short term solution but we reinforce and support the conditionalities and i think the visit by the vice president last week was excellent. i think more of that to be you know, having this dialogue with the president and high level officials in the also here is key. having periodic meetings and a dialogue to reach a solution is key. because this engagement is definitely not the way forward. el salvador.cy in

-- you know, i've done research on police and principlely in the 1990s and when i worked with the state department i reengaged with central america and i was struck by how we the u.s. are doing a lot of the same things on the security justice institution building side. the main difference is there's been a huge boost on usaid's programming aimed at of ention but on the sort police assistance programs and our judicial assistance programs focused on ry institutions and i was just at a at stabilization week where a person said, yeah, we basically and we've done a whole lot of supply side for 25

to do technical assistance to improve the policeal capabilities of and judicial forces. el salvador is one of the first we did forensic labs .n the 1980s 1986, that didn't work. and we're still talking about -- noticed, theif you need for investigative capabilities instead of hard ined administrative policing and this is the place where all that started around the world in and justicepartment department in some ways. all that is a long winded way of saying all this supply side technical stuff doesn't work bottom line i e think and i think one of the things we need to look at is demand and not supply. justice in these countries and what can the u.s. government do to foster those demanding justice meaning engaging more with society. trying more with those

to push their terrors for -- uthorities for outcomes and accountability and not just assuming that by providing technical assistance to police fearful or corrupt or part of the problem or the same for judges or prosecutors that to see any difference in outcomes. the other thing that i've been orking on is these international hybrid missions of assistance chnical certainly but mainly a political minded r reformist individuals in the prosecutor's office especially to do their obs and prosecute people and know that they're not -- they can be a little bit less fearful jobs like they want to do their jobs. that's a new tool with mixed success. good success in guatemala. for ued in this report latin american and latino evaluating the first hondurasen the

mission. they've made good progress in years but ouple of encountered a lot of problems in their future is still doubt. but i think those kinds of helpful.s can also be el salvador considered briefly rejected sion but that. i don't know that it's necessary in el salvador. think it would be seful but, you know, it's a place where the two principal somethingparties have of a nationalist tradition for some eason and have political obstacles there that are important in terms of that. ut i think really looking at how to generate and foster those looking for demand for justice crucial. >> okay. while we put a lot of issues on the table, this has been a great discussion. have about 20 minutes left. take turn to you all and

three questions at a time and come back to our panelists. i think we have a couple of here and one in the front here. andlease introduce yourself if your question is drecked at a particular panelist. sarah hall from the central american resource center. aye been going to a lot of this talking abcorruption, edge pecuniarity, the specially focused on northern triangle. heard recently about violence prevention work that the mbassador of el salvador was discussing last week and i wonder how that's connected to -- they're doing it in i wonder how that's connected also to the dialogues how that olice and also will help decriminalize youth because i know that's a too.ssue how that all sorted of fits together. hi.

many questions but i'll just pick one. we've been talking about i that need s institutional support and technical capacity building. e've also talked about the population that needs to come from the bottom up in terms of attention to the justice sector and people in i'm also curious about the private sector and hat role they can play in all of this because interestingly nough el salvador and colombia have relations with each other in terms of exchanging ideas and but the populations are different. n el salvador, there's a migration and people who want to voice their concerns are not colombia eas in they're internally displaced and till had a voice but in this

case they don't so how can it will private sector fit into this equation. thank you. one more in front here and then back to the panelists. good afternoon. thank you. concerned about what's happening in el salvador after all these years. am really sad to see that all sacrifice has yet to bring fruition having a better country. have a question about the -- about the ed different changes in authorities place.re about to take you mentioned the presidency is about the change. there's little things. thenow that the justices of supreme court are not up for re-electi re-election. we don't know yet about whether the attorney general will put so i f for re-election

would like you to comment about that. twoalso when mentioning the party system and the fmlm, you this o have left out that is an interesting new situation in el salvador where there will third party ong candidate so i would like to see if you can address how that will work on shaping the shaping and actually thatecurity of impugnty if third party candidate that is change, like is very now wins. >> do you want to start? >> sure. privatee a crack at the sector question in particular. human talking about rights in general in el salvador connotation.ry bad depends who you ask. on know, many would say work

human rights. you're defending gangs. just a very interesting perspective, who you ask. project we're fairly recent and we're having more contact ith the private sector and how they grapple with the different security issues, you know, they communities where they need to attract a good labor do you do that when the community is divided and internally what kind of do you have to encourage diversity and inclusion. internally they face their own

challenges. we've heard of one case in the company is very inclusive. they actually reach out not that out but allow lgbt, people with disabilities. internally it was hard for who was a work transsexual but on the other side of the office they had murdered their son but it's okay for them to work next to someone who murdered their son but they're not in of working with a transsexual person. decided to cancel all together, you know, their lgbti to work with squint. o it's not just the private sector when even even they try job but culturally, the business. right finding the balance. it's learning more i think as a not to come in with all

the solutions but what works best for the players. yes, there are challenges but they're part of the equation of, a difference in every day -- in the life of salvadorians. the 's not just looking at private sector or executive -- so there is noce solution either way but having it has helped us understand the problem more. ust to comment on the private sector issue. in el salvador, i think that the sector is -- on different levels and different ways. small initiatives on the

ones ity level based, the being supported by -- but there several. it is important not to fefkt the -- it is part is of the equation. more challenging to think in the private sector on national level. in the national level, the sector is actually political. to one ays been linked

main for different example, tax reform and some others. so at that level, i don't think to work with the private sector like engaging rights agenda.an but at the community level, opportunities. generalcurrent attorney that he some time would be interested in running term. second he can do it. most important thing high level authority hould be re-elected

automatically. if they are -- if eye high level authority as an attorney general or any other high authority for a second term, they need to go through the whole process. that's what the international standard is. right. so the -- you need to be it needs to go through the whole process of -- candidates.t of the that's what should happen. i know this is not something happened in the past in el salvador but that's the right things.do right. and in general, the attorney in el salvador rules. where very open process

deadlines and profiles and the are not really clear so anything can happen. right. them to monitor that selection process. >> in honduras, they actually rigorous set of rules for the process for creating the and they had al candidates and civil society participation. but ybe you haven't heard on friday they just tossed that out the window and asked a guy applied to be r in it because he's, like, i'm not sure i would make it through the process because i'm not good speaking and things. he just got reuped. that y completely threw whole illegal process out the window and a lot of people think thing not such a bad because the people who were up for it would probably not have of nstrated the kind independence that this attorney general has shown. i don't know what that says but maybe something about

honduras. but i do want to just echo what you've said in light of that. the other thing i'm just going echo about the mrooift sector. on monday i was meeting the representatives and the private sector in el a vador gets and supports in whole different way the need for doing something about gang violence. not about accountability for the past. but doing something about gang remarkable. it's it's an asset that should be ewe lied and so four years ago we met with leadsers trying their best and of their own initiative members.ith ex-gang ic it's worth citing that ecause it's actually highly unusual in latin america, i would say, certainly in central america. n response to your question --

kind of t administration. you know, it's just speck la but -- speculative. systemse seen two party ripped apart in colombia and in the past decade and it's -- it does open up possibilities and i think you're right to say that e should not make assumptions about continuity necessarily in light of that. take another quick round. and we'll go back to our panelists. yes. >> a testament to the quality of the panelists in the middle of a

heat wave and the middle of the cup you were able to get a full panel. >> i think it's a testament to audience. >> i want to thank the panel. i want to follow up on my question. first a question for -- you immigrants, the igrants deserving empathy and to be treated with dignity. but i could not help thinking here you're almost preaching to the converted and that's probably falling on deaf terms of the current

administration. first question. the second one to follow up on the question putting all three you on the spot. let's say that we're meeting -- you know, things change. individuals matter. right. attorney general make a different. coming.f new actors are if we are here the second of 2019, pure speculation but given your knowledge, would speculate in terms and ghting corruption impugnty, do you think you would tell us that things are better, worse in el salvador? thank you. i'm an attorney working with representing ties

immigrants including some el salvador seeking sylum based on persecution of their families by the gangs. one of the issues that comes up proceedings is whether the government is unwilling or protect the victims of the persecution. issue that was highlighted by attorney general in a recent opinion. ou all touched on the question i would interest interested in your opinion about whether the government is protect or unable to victims of persecution by the gangs. >> someone else? >> all right. we'll take those two. maybe reverse order in time. largely punt on

your question. i just don't have a good enough sense to speculate. to be tough.going i think these issues of corruption and impugnty for past violations of human rights and terms of n accountability for current violence and crime are three little pools bit and rsect a little it's not clear -- it's not clear -- each of them have their little dynamic so i think it's going to be very did you have to do something about organized crime. see.ll be interesting to especially in light of the new know, thes about, you that.ions and things like it will be interesting what happens there. on i don't have much to say that and i'll also defer to question. the >> i don't know what's going to happen in el salvador but i would like to say that it should be better.

right. it should be better and we want see more of the progress in office and general supreme court have been on this imimpugnty and transitional justice. i think part of our mission in in civil society gro international organizations, is to accompany this this. the new magistrates of the supreme court. the new attorney general. or the same attorney general shape their agenda to very clear what el salvador and to give them a proposal to help

to go the way and the general, he was not an expert on transitional or anything but at some point he opened the door to the past atrocities. welcomed ideas. has ever el salvador done this. let's discuss. let's talk with the ones that ave been pushing this agenda for so many years. right. the civil society rules. latin xperts from america. and we're following that. o i think that we need to continue doing that. n your first question, i'm not an expert on mai grecian so i'm i a lawyer on migration so don't have the numbers. to have a as said specific program for that has

been showing some numbers. are not that ere any but there are some cases when courts have granted asylum grounds, that in el salvad some or, there's fear for people. i don't know if we can say that el salvador is not illing or able to protect victims. i think there is a context that of that. favor that is important to review case by case. but it's true that many victims don't find the proper answers. do and some ofey them, they don't. >> i would just add in terms of orruption and impugnty, i like to leave on a positive note and think that they are in a better place. not have some things

but i think what this attorney do for has been able to the most part. there's been other cases where i personally think we could have done better but that's not up to e but in terms of corruption impugnty, it's definitely something that he's taken on seriously. without having these bodies, you they should think have so in absence of that, i think it's a very positive time. the work of civil society too and getting the to -- is something that has not been seen in i last five n the years. i remember working in el living for a while but there for the last year and you notice early on i said, you be, like, how can we get them to do more. happened this has not in a very long time. you know, getting civil society impugnty cases and

we wish olved so, yes, things would happen a lot faster there's a gap and an it's very so long, difficult. so, yes to your question. i think we are better off. country is better off and i am not a migration lawyer either. issues that we look nto the project or addressing the root causes of migration and it's probably a lot more that could be done. you see reports of massive displacement and what's happening. i think the government has not calling they're it displacement. i think there's another term hat they're using but they're getting closer to acknowledging hat there is internal displacement which causes migration too so it's been gradual. it's probably not where we

wanted to be but it is being acknowledged in a different way. >> well, i have learned a lot conversation. i hope all of you have. joining us.r thank you for fingerprint -- i colleagues for their support and counterpart this for cosponsoring event with us. really enjoyed having you all here. please join me in thanking our stellar panel. [applause]

coming up this morning, ahead in iew the week washington. we'll talk about the cost of materials g nuclear with cq world call senior writer john.comly. "washington journal" live beginning at 7:00 a.m. eastern this morning. join the discussion. this morning a discussion on the inspectors general on how they can improve their relationship with agencies and the public. the event held by the bipartisan olicy center starts live at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span two. remarks from former

ajority leaders on global health and diplomacy. it's live at 1030 tim testimony a.m. eastern on c-span. the president donald trump will announce his nominee for the upreme court filling the vacancy left by retiring justice anthony kennedy. the announcement live tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span.org or listen on the free c-span radio app. this week on ♪ announcer: this week on "q&a,"