to park, traffic will be improved. the benefits go on and on for consumers, to the overall connecteding that are and growing faster, if we get it right. >> watch "the communicators" monday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. >> today, the american institute of certified public accountants holds a conference in washington on changes to the national audit manuals and cyber security fears live coverage begins at 9:00 a.m. eastern on c-span2. >> good afternoon. let's get this level appropriate. please follow along

let's get this level alex: good . let's get this level appropriate. welcome to building the bench bae vested strategies as well as the truman center for national nationaland the truman security project. my name is alex johnson, and i am a in your policy advisor for europe and asia at the policy center. we partner to develop this cycle that we are launching today, because inclusive foreign policy is a matter of strategic capability. unfortunately, that capability has remained under utilized in our country, and policy to change that should deserve bipartisan support. leadership in the house and the senate has recognized this as a priority of government, including standalone measures lik the workforce act of 2017 and other measures

included over the years at state department and national defense authorization act. leaders like representatives hastings, menendez, and senator ben cardin have called on organizations to make diplomacy look like america. in october of 2016, the obama administration issued the presidential memorandum for inclusion in the national security workforce. retentionded in national security agencies. but we are here today because we are looking at how do we build the bench to fill those positions. reflecting the diversity of america. ans simple site has essential role. in april of this year, more than a state foreign policy practitioners -- more than 60 foreign policy practitioners

wrote an open letter. this included inclusion for a national security coalition, which the open society policy center facilitated. regular meetings create space for civil site is to create the inclusion among various initiatives and projects that they are working on. such capacity helps civil society lee by example. from the perspective of the open this is howdation, we walk our truths, and this is not always convenient. it is a society long thought to and power of the some power. it is a matter of justice to ensure that the voices of those reached by policy policymakers. our discussion today is to help reach policymakers. we will discuss how we bring experiences to bring cultural policy to diplomacy. these experiences our our

experiences, they are inseparable from the identity of america, so we are very excited that you are here to join us today. we will have as open of a conversation and explore some of the great findings from this new rep advancing diversity and inclusion in the foreign policy, prepared by vested strategies. we are doing today by stefanie brown james, the ceo and vestedg partner of strategies. ohio,ve of bedford park, she served regionally for the 2012 obama for america campaign. she has extensive experience working with the in naacp and initiatives nationally and internationally. we are also joined today by anthony robinson, the director of public engagement for the true method for national policy and the truman national security project. he is responsible fo organizing

and conducting a wise range -- the trumanfor fellowship program. he worked under the obama administration in the department of defense, working under personnel readiness, as well as working both in the department of veterans affairs and the department of transportation. he is a marine corps veteran, and we are very excited for him to join yesterday. first, we will start with an overview of the report that we are launching, so i will leave some stefanie to give us highlights and explore the research that she conducted over the last few months, engaging with partners at think tanks, ngo's, and civil site easier in washington. e: thank you so much, alex. it is a great opportunity when you are able to dig into a sector. that is a strategy that we had a great fortune to do a similar

study with an organization called inclusive as well as many organizations in the environmental justice space, from greece broke, the sierra club, and many more. foreignour lens to the policy sector, in many ways, there were some results that you knew you could find in the space and some that, quite frankly, we do not expect. the lastentioned over you must know we have had conversations, one-on-ones, and most importantly, a survey sent to about 20 organizations to the washington dc foreign policy organization. about half of the organizations were able to complete the survey, and the actual report from that come off from our 18 question questionnaire, we

begin a snapshot of the diversity and inclusion work that was currently happening within these organizations, as well as ideas of moving forward to ensure diversity and inclusion was really being embraced, not just within specific organizations but the sector wide. so i just want to quickly highlight a few key points, and this underscores, as alex mentioned, the april report that was put out which was so -- the open letter which was put out which was helpful as we delved into a report and our findings. one, i think it is important to mention, as we look at diversity and inclusion it is about specifically those who work within organizations but also about the impact of these organizations and how they spread the culture of diversity and inclusion internationally. things that was great to see was, out of all of

the organizations we surveyed, eight out of 10 had a specific person on staff was drop it was to focus on diversity inclusion. that was actually surprising. to have paid employee whose job is to have a benchmark to see what they are undertaking was positive thing to see. in addition, we found that it was very important amongst these organizations to have staffers who were actively engaged in ongoing training through forums that currently happened, whether they themselves produce it, or whether they collaborated with other organizations as well. i will say that some of the challenges that we saw was that, most importantly, diversity and inclusion is very, very narrowly tracked. for many of us, when we see diversity, first, we go to gender, we go to race, and that is kind of almost where we started. in today's society we also look

a little bit at physical abilities, backgrounds, but when we came to the organization, there were -- was a heightened awareness of the type of catalyst present and what their gender and race was but when asked about sexual on -- orientation or physical ability there was virtually no tracking that was done on that. aswell as -- as well specifics of backgrounds that were included in the greater programming at an organization. and if diversity inclusion was topening, what could be due be more successful. a number of organizations pinpointed that their greatest challenge was the pipeline. a pipeline from entry level staffers to senior staffers and the roles that they played in being able to not only shaped diversity and inclusion activities, but more broadly being able to have a well-funded operation in place to have consistent work go on. the pipeline challenge with

interns was especially problematic. i want to say six out of 10 organizations mentioned that the lack of funding for in internship program specifically targeting young people of color was a real problem. that really was the first step that was needed to be addressed to strengthen the overall pipeline. there are many more things that we will talk about within this discussion. to mean, those are the things that stood out the greatest. i think the last thing i would say is, it was great to see that there actually is excitement around collaboration and noncompetition. and that organizations within a foreign policy center do want to cooperate and organize together. they want to publicly be able to talk about the work that they do inclusively together. what again, there needs to be a mechanism in place to make that ongoing consistent thing, as well as something that can be

actualto make sure that benchmark around how this cooperation takes place, and what it is that the sector hopes to achieve, not just within each organization, but with each sector wide. >> thank you for that update and review of the report. discussion,bout our we will speak about the details and finding of the great research you conduct did. shift ourage we may conversation and open it more to a panel and start with a few framing questions about your vision and why there is an imperative for this type of work. maybe we will turn to anthony for that. how he think the findings in this report can empower inclusion outside of government and inside of government? for allowingk you me to be here. i was at the department of labor veteran deployment training

service, not the v.a.. i just wanted to state that. i think it is about awareness. all we talk about making strides with diversity and inclusion, we are talking about changing the culture. what we find going on in many facets in our country, and around the world, people are changing the narrative. the narrative used to be the only a select group could decide what our foreign policy was, or what our national security strategy was. we have men and women from all backgrounds saying, no, that is not the case. you are aware of the truman national security process -- project overseas and puts together a training call and bridging the gap with discrimination and stereotyping in national security. one of the things that we looked just be -- because anyone could say i want to improve diversity and inclusion,

but we really take a close look at the psychological and peace.gical information we have brought in unconsciously over time. where we brought up. the images on television. one of the slides in training shows screen grabs from several loweretworks and in the half of the screen there was some type of national security foreign policy topic going on. in all of the pictures there were white men. what does that say overtime? ,nyone other than a white male do they know anything or can speak intelligently on these topics? we are talking about changing the culture and we need more complex and nuanced discussions. whether we are talking about and the at state, organizations you work in are not just black and white, no pun intended. we have to more -- have more

complex and nuanced discussions. if we have a leader in the organization that believes in it, but the person in charge of the department for internships does not buy in or the hr department does not buy in, what are the efforts? talking about collective awareness. that is where we can go from there. extension of that. i know you're at a side event in the munich security conference. i was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about how those conversations may be lead to more durable security outcomes 's? >> bridging the gap was one of the first places where we , and that was during the munich security conference. we had members across the transatlantic's race -- transatlantic space that were very adamant and had complete by an they to diversifying the national security space.

enough, they included policing in their national security conversation, which i found very interesting. the collective effort to include religious aspects, cultural aspects, so many things that we do not include in diversity, whether it is regional impacts, where people are from and not just /female and -- male black and white. i was very encouraged to be there and i continue did -- continued the discussion in that space. in that space they were very aware of the impact that a diverse leadership leads to strength and policy. they are reaping the benefits of that and we can take a page from that as well. a littlejust to turn bit to some of stephanie's personal experiences in her career, just reflecting on my own work, i grew up never thinking i would leave the united states, now i have spent some time as it did lament

alsog in austria, but entered into many negotiations where my interlocutors never expected i would be the person on the other side of the table. may be reflecting on your career and other aspects of government and civil society supporting diversity in government. what have you seen in terms of the need for such changes ? my background is primarily civil rights. i am from the midwest, grew up in the ends -- naacp. the mentioned, with strategies and being able to oflly look at culture various organizations in sectors across the country. you start to see many things that are very similar. i think it is funny, just kind of a byline, there really is more that unites us and divides us if we pay -- more that unites us than divides us, if we pay

attention and learn how to high in those commonalities -- hi those commonalities. we are starting to see not just the fact that we have to have awareness in activities but we need to be trained to make sure that we are focused on how can we have activities that are not bias in nature? one of the things that we saw through this survey is that there really is a need within the sector for there to be anti-bias and unconscious bias training. i have seen, through my own work and going through these trainings myself, that it really does make a difference to break him bias that we do not even know we have, and that we bring often to the table through our work and personal interactions. as we start to think about solutions, that to me is one of the biggest ones we should focus on. how do we fund these anti-bias and unconscious bias trainings

fromat our organizations, top to bottom, have the opportunity to really look in the mirror, reflect and figure out how we can do things differently to bring us together? >> maybe to shift the conversation a little bit. this is also a question to the audience as i see many esteemed guests with us here. what policies and bilaterally -- bilateral and multilateral engagements could be improved through a more inclusive approach? we spoke about your appearance at the munich security conference where we look at that thatmeeting in brussels talked about solidarity with the minority/muslim community that expresses negotiations for that declaration could have benefited for our more inclusive approach. what are some issues and places where an inclusive approach

could improve outcomes? i would pose it to either of you to jump in here it may be when we get to questions and answers i would like to hear from you all as well. that,y: i would just add getting away from the group thing is very important. when you have people from only one background, one train of thought, one mindset and that leads to very narrow outcomes. there is a lot that we can benefit from in the global space from doing that. i would just say, at a more local level, at truman, at our last conference, which we call trucon, it was all woman led conference. speakers ahead by -- led by women. we made a very conscious effort to do that. there were some instances that it was a challenge to find more women of color to speak on

security, but we had to have those tough discussions. i think the outcome of that was truly eye-opening, not just for myself, but for others, other women. other women could see that trains could run on time, they could see the space that they are in. that is probably one of the best recruitment tools that you could probably have. a lot of times, when i was growing up, just thinking about being in the military, there were not a lot of people that i could look to that look like me in that space. that is a positive outcome as well. the mantles. matches having women service just the moderator. i think i saw that in the report. -- again,t speaks to that anyone, anywhere can do it. we need to continue to put those images out there for people. >> that essentially takes a deliberate action and political commitment of high-level

leadership investment and seeing that through. absolutely. the policies are good. i do not want to take away from that, no we have to have a action to follow. totalhas to be a commitment in this. there is not a one off solution to improve diversity and inclusion. anthony: i just want to -- stephanie: i just want to highlight that one of the things we did not touch on was age. not age in just the interim pool. thinking about policies, we also do a bit of domestic political work and international political work. we have done some work in nigeria with the last governor's race that happened there. one of the things we specifically talked about within the government structure was the role of young people and policies that could be put in place to make sure there was consistent engagement of young citizens within the new

government that would be coming in. as well as we have seen a number of state legislators and city councils who also adopted different protocols of how young people would be engaged. that is one area we should pursue. thinking outside of the box in ways that we can work with younger people. also, people with physical disabilities. , is shamefulto me that across the board -- and this is not just foreign policy boardic -- across the there remains a severe lack of engagement of people with limited physical abilities and how they are included within the broader work that we do. to me, and thinking of what are two two specific ways we bodies of two citizens and people who really are able to give a lot of him pet -- input to the work that we do.

it would definitely be people with different physical abilities. >> i think at this stage, and less there are any other remarks, i really want to open up a conversation and hear from all of you. i know we have a number of esteemed colleagues who are leaders of various projects and initiatives that are doing this work every day. , notnk this could also be only an opportunity to ask questions about this tremendous report, but to have a conversation and platform for sharing some of the best practices that each of you are working on in your organizations and what you hope to see in terms of transforming the foreign policy sector. stephanie: can i just say something to that? i know it takes you off guard when someone calls you and asks you to do this survey, you have no idea who i am but i need all of your information, please. ofnow there are a number people who participated and i want to thank you for doing that.

the phone calls in the conversations i had were so been officials and -- beneficial and eye-opening. fornt to say thank you those who participated in the anonymous survey. it was anonymous and i think it led to there being very -- know when it in their responses, which was very good to see. i wanted to give my appreciation bear. report, coming from philanthropy, it is important to have survey data and other information to see where investments could be maintained really support the field and in power organizations. organizations. i want to open the floor and i know there are a number of individuals who have questions, comments and ideas about the projects they are working on. we will open up the floor. do i have any takers? upfront, please.

we will start in the back where the microphone already is. thank you. >> hi, everyone. i am a chief of staff that young professionals and foreign policy . we built the next generation of foreign policy leaders. i think you for this conversation and a great work you have done. we did a survey in december and asked members what were things they wanted us to do. the number one thing besides fashionableas development opportunities. opportunities to build skill sets. i am curious if in your work and research if you came across important or critical skill sets that mattered to this space? the second part of my question is, how can we ensure we are not repeating the folks of the past and putting people in the light lime who are not prepared to be effective leaders? i think one of the most

tremendous skill sets, or one skill that is reimporting, languages. injury pointbvious into the strategic capability that the diversity of america can bring to u.s. foreign policy. we have such a rich culture of many new americans, immigrant communities that have been a part of our tapestry for many generations. that gives us capacity to be engaged in the global stage in a meaningful and impactful way. if there are other observations that you had throughout your research process. --phanie: i am just thinking back to the group think, we inherently had them do that within our sector of work. not even just for younger people, but being able to purchase a paid in trainings outside of your sect or, whether civil rights training, public policy training, environmental justice training because they

have been able to raise money like nobody's business to support environmental work in this country. i think just being able to step outside of our own sect or boxes -- sector boxes. one of the things we talk about was that there was a study done by mckinsey and company in 2015 that highlighted the at, what we talk about diversity inclusion, although it is the right thing to do, it is also profitable. specifichave a gender policy in place to make sure women, young people, or people of color are equity be -- equitably covered in organizations and companies, it is both the right thing to do and it is profitable. does thee to see how financial sector look at diversity inclusion or how does the nonprofit sector look at funding students from low income communities to be interns, it is something that would load well in this -- bode well in this

foreign policy. be remiss tould mention our true diversity remission. we have gone to howard university and we put faces in front of people. from a wide swath of national security policy, to make them aware of opportunities that are out there. any organization that is out there now and you are looking to improve or implement more for youropulation organization, don't just look at the ivy league schools. anytime i'm on a leadership panel, i always announce that i in northn hbcu carolina. that is to say that leaders can come by -- come from anywhere and it is not isolated to one group.

miss ramsey heard me mention that at a training that she sat in. she came and talked to me and now she works with the organization. opening your eyes, not just limiting where talent can come from. >> we will go to other questions. upfront, first. >> i am spencer. with georgetown bookings and university of pennsylvania. my question is a little bit more on the -- problem of tracking within the foreign policy space, whether it is african-americans or people of other backgrounds being pushed into directions based on their ethnicity, or women being tracked into certain areas. as somebody who spent a lot of time in the european space, transatlantic space, i was a deputy assistant secretary is -- of state for european immigration affairs, the national intelligence office for europe. i cannot tell you how many times i have been asked in my career, how did you get into that?

why are you interested in this area? some of the kinds of questions that you do not really get as a white male who is interested in east asia, or south asian and so forth, you are given the freedom to have whatever interest you want. as a minority you are often asked why you are interested in this. as a professor at georgetown, lots of minority students will ask me and after a lot of hemming and hauling and getting to the crux of their question, how do you justify to people why you are doing european affairs because i want to do it too, but i am latino and i'm told i need to be focused on things that affect my community. in your research, what insights have you gotten in terms of some of the bias the track individuals within a certain space, and how do you handle that? how does that affect mentoring?

i find whatever kind of organization i work in, i have worked in a lot of different ones, often times the problem is not necessary getting people in. it is how do you promote them, how do you advance them when they feel as though there will not be a them later on? it is often a vicious circle where folks don't mentor because they think folks will not stay there because they probably have other interests areas and so for. but they don't stay or they don't advance because they are menmeant toward properly -- tored properly. fellasie: i'm sure the have something to add. the first thing that popped into my mind was intentionally and that we often think that we are but in practice are not intentional with making sure that -- to your last point about the pipeline issue, it came up a number of times in the survey results that there was a real

challenge in having people of color in senior positions, not just within their organizations, but being able to be tracked to think tanks. when they are transitioning into think tanks, they are transitioning into equal or higher senior-level positions. if you do not have people in those positions, or who are from diverse communities, there is no way down the pipeline that mid-level or entry levels will see themselves in similar positions. being intentional with making sure people are being mentored, not just by people who would like them. maybe the only thing that connects is they want to be and a certain type of job or work in a certain type of sector. that is enough to make someone a pair with a mentor. we often look at the obvious things of what connects us, race, gender, or a certain part of the country we come to.

even universities. we have to be intentional about breaking the status quo and how we approach our work. also being able to make sure that, back to your point, one of the things we highlighted is it is important for folks to go recruit and have conversations and have events at historically black colleges, tribal colleges, community colleges. there are many times that i went to howard university. many times i can tell you the programming that came to our campus was focused on the african-american community, poverty, low income, your stereotypical issues. i can tell you there was never a conversation that i know of, even though we have a wonderful bunch on campus, that talks about the role of what you can do as an officer working on europe or eurasia issues. he just gave me his resume and i was like, i cannot wait to talk to you after. we have break the status quo of what we have always done to do things differently, without the

boundaries of the things we normally consider the first things we go to, the conversations we normally have. >> to add to exactly what she said, the conversations about poverty, around certain policy, these are common to the human experience and they are happening in each of the countries we work in around the world. part of my justification engagement in european affairs, i've spent a number of years helping support and mobilize the afro descendents in europe and supporting civil society organizations that have been helping empower their community. they are facing some of the same criminal justice issues, profiling, things that are happening in the united states as well. i think there needs to be more of this synthesis of foreign policy and domestic policy. that is part of the endeavor here in this conversation, to do that.

seeing leaders like you takes the visibility and profile of people doing it, to even imagine you can do it. it is so important. it is sometimes an additional duty of those who have pioneered different spaces, to get out and be visible about the work they have done to generate that perception, change the narrative about who can be a part of this -- those conversations. stephanie: one of the things that we strongly recommend is the creation of a speakers bureau, specifically for this point. to highlight many individuals will many of us do not know about to be front and center to say, yes, i am available, i am willing to speak to various audiences. we hear often times that, i did not know where to find someone, where if we have a centered place where that collaboration can come in, organizations can recommend their own expert to be

a part of the speakers bureau, we can eliminate the excuse of, i did not know this type of person existed to, how can i make sure this person is being placed in public more often? >> maybe we will get two more questions and you want to come in on another point. i saw a question in the back from a representative, a leader from an organization doing just that, trying to identify who can be a part of speakers bureaus as well. >> my name is bonnie jenkins, founder and president of women of color -- also a nonresident fellow at the brookings institution. at first i want to thank you for doing this, because we need to have more of these kind of studies on this issue. as i work in the field and try to look at ways in which we can impact and bring up people of color, it is just good to have

more studies. a lot of us know what that having it written is good. i agree. one thing we are doing in my organization is highlighting women of color in different fields, having a woman of the month or youth person of the month, we have podcast and do everything possible so people can know there are women of color out there doing things. we are also developing a listserv so we can combine names of women from organizations who want to have people on their panel. thank you for everything you are doing. i wanted to ask a question about sustainability. i used to work at the ford foundation. when i was at the ford foundation from 2005-2 now and 2005-2009, i funded a lot of organizations that were trying to diversify.

young people, businesses, and i funded icap. we started some conversation that led to the gap program. tois a little disheartening find issues with the pipeline. we started gap to address the pipeline issue. the fact that we started by looking at think tanks, and it led -- there is no diversification in the boards and we led naturally to the conversation, you will not have people on the boards if you do not have people in the pipeline. there was a little bit of comfort. with president obama, there was a feeling that things are changing and we realized we still have a ways to go. thanks have not changed as much as we hoped. how do you sustain your view? it is not an easy question, but the sustainability of programs, the effectiveness of programs, the interest that you see now

from a lot of organizations about diversity, how do you sustain that? had you keep that going? if we have somebody in 2020 who may be, in my opinion, more caring about this issues, how do we keep it going? we cannot assume everything changes because it seems like a it changes. >> thank you so much. it is important to essentially have investments that incubate these types of initiatives and then work on the transformation that i believe stephanie talked about. you will find in the report what is important in terms of transitioning some of the diversity and inclusion efforts from a component of an institution or organization's work to a mainstream value priority of the leadership? the types of trainings and solutions that transform that narrative essentially are very important in terms of really

moving forward. >> i agree, and i would just add there are people -- i know i am committed to the fight. one of the founders of my fraternity said at a national conference, we have to fight until hell freezes over and then be prepared to fight on the ice. [laughter] anthony: i take that to heart. this is not just a one-dimensional initiative. we have to be committed to this and even though we signed a letter, that is not the end of it. if you have eight diversity office initiated, or a diversity policy initiated, that is not the end of it. you have to keep it front and center in the conversation. that is why that narrative is so important. going for making diversity and inclusion a box to check, making it a practical, relevant, and reasonable part of the environment, we are talking about, again, changing the

culture and that does not happen overnight. i am committed so the sustainability rests a lot in me and the allies that reform. -- that we form. the department of defense, i sat in a lot of meetings where i was the only brown thing in the room other than the table and the coffee. at first, it is amazing, it is a good feeling. i am here and i have made it, but after a while, there need to be more voices in here because i do not represent all african-american male experience s. tokenism that goes on, that is why you have to have complete and attentional diversity inclusion because you have a broad swath of experiences across sexual orientation, age, disability, gender, and race. i think it will go a long way so we have to continue to fight. >> so more questions? in the middle and we will go here and towards the front. >> good afternoon.

my name is leo with national security action. thank you for having this panel and doing the study. to the point talked about affinity groups in the study, and alex, to your point to the connection of civil rights, civil society, human rights that we do internationally, trying to bring that home and connected -- connect it domestically with the tri-caucus, those that are members of congress where people of color connected with groups like the naacp, those types of groups. i go to those groups domestically and they are the ones that, they were the leaders in our communities of color. when i talk to them about foreign-policy issues, they are like, we do not have capacity. we are fighting too many fights at home and we are not concerned about foreign-policy, about national security. i would like to hear your thoughts on how do we bridge

that gap? i feel, to your point alex, or actually, it was anthony talking about the flight deck and how everyone on tv is a white man. if we do not have the leaders in our community standing up for us in our areas of expertise, we will never change this. i feel most of us in here are concerned about foreign-policy issues, but this is a connection that we need to support domestically. i would like to hear how you bridged that gap. >> maybe i will give an example from practice. i think we can never underestimate the value of international solidarity, the two-way street in exchange we can create that makes foreign-policy relevant for domestic policy. i worked with bringing a number of human rights activist and leaders from other countries to america to discuss some of the

issues that are really domestic problems for themselves in their home countries. by coming to america and finding solidarity in that common human experience, i have been with groups who, their own government to notes. they said, they went to the united states and discussed what? the embassy would then invite those human organizations in to talk. when they went back home, they would be able to advance policies and work with those governments more closely. similarly, our civil rights organizations are doing similar efforts abroad in providing solidarity for various organizations. right now with the united nations international decade for people of african descent, there are organizations like the leadership conference who are traveling abroad and working on the shared experiences of the african-american community with

the african diaspora, to explore how joint policies can make that decade more impactful. i think we need to have this two-way street and not underestimate the value of international solidarity. stephanie: absolutely. i think this is a gray area where foundations can come into to help that work be funded, for that type of conversation to take place. coming from the civil rights community, there were a number of times that organizations just within the civil rights community only got together around certain issues when a funder made it happen. that is good and bad, don't get me wrong. it definitely is a unique role and figure out how that can be institutionalized within the organization, so whether that is saying for the next five years we will fund a position with another organization that specifically has a person focused on foreign-policy, or we

will make sure to fund this coalition that, i'm a monthly basis you guys can meet around the country. whatever it is, that is a uniquely specific role that foundations can start to play. that would be extremely well received not just by the international organizations but getting down to the state and local level where those organizations often times have had no opportunity to delve into this work, even though they very much would like to. >> we have a number of questions. i want to make sure we have enough time to get around to the field. we have one up front and a couple in the back. we will do over here. >> thank you. i am with re-think media. we work with a bunch of different nonprofit think tanks here in the national security sector to help with her -- with their media capacity. we have touched on the question

of pipeline but i would like to ask your perspectives on the questions of retention and backlash. is even if noticed you are able to bridge this diversion bring in diverse , candidates, between your one in three, the drop-off is very high and often times they leave the sector entirely. that is one thing. the second thing, we all know that women, people of color receive a huge portion of foreign-policy work and work as an expert. it is on tv and media. it is publishing papers. ash is more backl cruel, vitriolic, and tougher to deal with. it has definitely affected a lot of experts, especially female experts, in the way they present in their comfort in presenting and stating their opinions publicly, assertively, in a way that a lot of their white

male counterparts do not feel. i am wondering if there is an experience or insight that you have into that issue and if there is anything, whether it is foundations or organization can do to address that? anthony: i will just say that that goes back to an earlier point that we talked about with mentorship and having people of all areas throughout organizations. one of the things we talked about in munich, going from mentorship which is good but sometimes turns into you having coffee once a month, to actual sponsorship, because we are talking about access, access to the pipeline to lead to more ses '. it will lead to more marginalized communities being elevated, promoted to general officer. we are talking about people that can grant access. in our bridging the gap training, we see a clear fall

off between the civilian sector, between gs seven and gs eight, which is usually where you are beyond pushing papers, to possibly leading a team. there is a fall off. in between 12 and 13 where you were considered to go into the ses ranks, there is a fall off. it should not be surprising because they are not intentional programs. people just checking the box. i will also speak to another end with women, we do need more women in the spaces but if we do not have policies in place to protect them from sexual harassment and abuse we will continue to see that drop-off. we're not doing things to fight when people blow the whistle on people being outwardly discriminatory or racist, then it is almost like we are sending people out to slaughter, to put

it very likely. bluntly. we have to have a 360 approach. >> one of the provisions of the bill i mentioned, the national security diversity and inclusion workforce act is requiring that agencies, national security agencies conduct state interviews so part of that retention, you often hear about exit interviews, when you are leaving, how you explain why. there needs to be more of a deliberate effort from leadership and management to have an ongoing conversation about, why do you want to remain engaged? what do you need to succeed? that should apply not only for government but for outside of government and civil society and think tanks that feed into those positions. stephanie: one of the things you said is we all know. we all don't know that. that is part of the problem, especially when you are in the

work you assume that everybody knows that this is a huge problem that women and people of color are being attacked in different ways. we all do not know that. to me that is where the power of , the affinity group comes into play. one of the things we talk about is there is a huge willingness, many affinity groups are already established. leads one here, and there extreme desire for organizations to come together. this is where those groups could come together in being almost a defense mechanism to say, these are some ways we can come to their rescue and these are some ways we can highlight and say, this is a problem. it is a problem that people of color and women are being attacked. here is what we can do about it, here is what we need. we definitely have to start looking at things through the lens of, do people really know what is going on, and being that microphone to shed light on what is happening.

alex: we have several more questions. i want to make sure i do not miss this side of the room. we have one up front and two in the back. we will start up front. >> good afternoon. my name is todd wiggins. if i may start out with a complement, all three of you look fabulous. that is. for the gentleman, nice pocket squares -- gentle men, nice pocket squares. he mentioned something that i thought was interesting and i want to take it to the next step. i met a black conservative named tim scott. representative of south carolina. he, in your mind, might represent that word that you used, you said "token." it is important that there be more black conservatives and more black republicans, regardless of how they really feel, because there has got to be more than one way of entry

into the mainstream and into the economy. we need to diversify our diversity. is there an oxymoron in there somewhere when you say black conservative, black republican, or should that be part of the strategy for developing more of an equal society? alex: i will start to say it that i initially started to emphasize that this should be a nonpartisan issue. that is what the report talks about. you rightly complemented senator scott in that there have been a number of articles about his own leadership within his own staffing in his office, and how he is trying to transform and lead how congressional staffing should look like america. this should not be partisan. we should be working to expand this outside of maybe a partisan frame, if you will. stephanie: to take his example,

senator scott is one of the most bipartisan members of congress that reaches across the aisle often. people often assume he is a certain way because he is a black man. he is a black man, he is a conservative. he is from south carolina. your flags go up of all of the things you can assume of him, but when you look at his policies and the way he works with his staffing, you get a different story. i think back to anthony's point, we have to get ourselves out of stereotyping, anti-bias, and out of assuming that we are all operating under groupthink. when it comes to individuals. anthony: i will just add, i think this comes not just in this instance but all across marginalized communities, if i cannot speak up for the latino community or lgbt community, then my work really is, i am being a mouthpiece and there is no walk. it is only talk.

i can definitely support people in improving diversity and inclusion across many spectrums , i think it is important and i will always keep up for that. alex: we have two more questions on this site and one more on this side. then we will conclude. >> i am allison peters. what was talked about in terms of bridging the gap between domestic and international is -- international institutions. i am coming from the women peace and security space where we work to get women involved in peace and security processes. one thing that has struck me is how separate the conversations are in the international landscape and here domestically. in fact, when we were working with congress on international strategy with women peace in security, congress said we need to make sure we are clarifying this has nothing to do with our domestic institutions, not the state

department, not dod, just talking about internationally how to get women into peace and security processes. just a piggyback off of what you are saying, i think we have a lot of work to do in terms of bridging the international and domestic gap in these conversations. i wanted to ask one question that was raised about unconscious bias training, there has been some research talking about how unconscious bias training had the opposite effect in reinforcing biases. i him just curious your thoughts if you have taken parts in those trainings. if you think they are give? if you think there are other means we should be promoting beyond unconscious bias training if it has not been proven to be effective? alex: before we take that question, park that one. we are going to collect questions so we will do one more in the back and then respond. >> thank you

so with this kind of work, i wonder, and it was mentioned with the collective leadership, but outside of organizations, what can we look to within our enabling environment on these issues for solutions, similar to the example provided about singapore? >> all right, so we have unconscious bias training does not work and other lessons. >> i will take on with a space

that i am in at truman, bridging the gap, a lot of times, and i have read reports about the. i put together studies for the training. success has a lot to -- a law the lack of success has to do with the lack of platform. a lot of people take diversity training via a computer test, and then they put it out. that is ineffective. it is almost set up to fail. then they almost rue the idea. i have to go into a conference room, be in a room for two or three hours, and the whole line frame is negative from the very beginning. a lot of -- i think the caliber of the trainer has a lot to do with it as well, and right now, we're seeing diversity training being the

soup du jour right now, and they are not equipped to deal with the. you have to watch the room. it is not about spewing off information, because people are dealing with some very intense and heartfelt issues a lot of times. to my other point, there is no follow-up. you get basic information, they come in, all right, white guys, you are wrong, ladies are right, and they go back to their desk. there is a lot of animosity built up. what we try to do is we have certified trainers. we get a survey of the group that we will be in front to find out -- are there some issues that we should or should not address in that space? which i would suggest about nine times out of 10 could not, because it makes it personal if there are unresolved issues. they will not be resolved in one day.

and then there is follow-up on the backend. organizations -- it is an investment, and a lot of able to not want to make that investment to have a follow-up in three months to six months to make sure that policies are put in place or that people really have an understanding. you are not going to get woke in three hours. it is not going to happen. so a lot of people saying we are not successful iat a lot of those tenets, and the ones that were successful are the ones that follow the guidelines i set out. what we do believe antivirus training should be implemented at organizations, we're not saying -- why we do believe that antivirus training should be implemented that they canions, oftentimes let their hair down a

little bit more with those i aming as opposed to -- sitting next to michael were, and i cannot stand him for other reasons, not because he is a black man, just because he is a you know what. one of the things to me that was also beneficial is conflict resolution training. i will make sure it to alex a list of some trainings that i know are happening across the country that are extremely that official in resolving conflicts, that are rooted not just in race and gender and things like that but also in more personal experiences, who we are, and breaking down the experiences that do not often get addressed. alex: we are bringing our conversation to a close. we just have a few more minutes. i know we had a great conversation on other sector opportunities. what you reference with the private sector and kind of business case, there are a number of other institutions

here represented, like csis doing a report, taking a look at other sectors and how you can leverage diversity in terms of your institutional management and foreign policy in particular. we will have to park that one, unfortunately. i do want to get a test for our last question. side, beforeon the we conclude our conversation today. please. >> hi. persuadinged both people why diversity matters, you mentioned in the report. is their research that talks about the value and importance of women being at the negotiating table? i'm curious what research exists about having more diverse teams leads to better policy outcomes? stefanie: i don't know offhand. that is a good question.

is that the last question? good question. [laughter] stefanie: i will have to get back to you on that. alex: i think that question serves as a mandate for what is needed next. some of the research being done, particularly in women, peace, mandate some of there measures from how certain conflict resolution policies lead to more durable outcomes. i think that is one of the greatest resources in that regard in terms of public policy. in other sectors, i am not familiar offhand with additional research. also, as i said, i think this is a mandate for what needs to happen, and i hope that a number of the organizations got here both in the private and public sector can consider how we prioritize that work.

quickwith that, a final word, a parting remark for our friends here today. anthony: i would just say, as i always tell groups that are looking to advance or move up the professional scale, i offered to organizations that are there, one, to be serious about improving diversity and inclusion. if you stay ready, you do not have to get ready. all alongthe strides the way, it will not pop up like an instagram or there is some kind of backlash, then you get serious about it. make the efforts now. stefanie: i would say that in order for inclusion to have a sustained impact in the sector, it has to be intentional, and it has to be fully integrated. for us to focus on ways that we

can do those two things, making sure it is integrated and intentional in the work that we do, i believe that we can get to a point of sustained impact, not just in the foreign policy really for the benefit of the entire world. alex: already. this includes the on the record portion, building the bench for inclusion in foreign policies, beatin leading by example. thanks for joining us at the open society foundation. thank you very which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] -- thank you. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] where history unfolds daily. , c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies, and today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress,

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