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tv   Washington Journal 01082022  CSPAN  January 8, 2022 7:00am-10:02am EST

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the eviction lab. and michael knowles of the daily wire is causing his podcast and news from the past week. join the conversation next on “washington journal.” host: good morning and welcome to "washington journal." wage increases are lowering workers into joining the great resignation. the masses of americans who are leaving lower paying jobs for better wages. our question to you this morning , what is your job situation?
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have you been part of the great resignation? have you changed jobs? we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. if you are looking for a new job right now, we want to know what the market is out there. if you are looking for a new job, your number is (202) 748-8001. if you are unemployed right now and you are looking for a job, we want to know what you are seeing. your number is (202) 748-8002. if you are not looking for a job, if you are retired, or you decided to drop out of the job market, your number is going to be (202) 748-8003. you can always text us your answer and (202) 748-8003 and we are always reading on social media on facebook, twitter, and
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you can follow us on instagram. once again, what we want to talk to you about this morning is your current job situation. where do you sit in the job market? have you been looking for a new job? are you satisfied with the job you have right now? are you unemployed? call and let us know what the job market looks like for you. all of this as we receive new jobs numbers on friday on what the american economy is doing right now and we will bring you the story from "the washington post." the unemployment rate is at 3.9% and 199,000 jobs were added to the american economy, lower than what economists expected. "the washington post" explains it in their story this morning. the u.s. economy sent more confusing singles in -- signals in december adding just 199,000 while pushing the unemployed it right down to a new pandemic
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low. according to the labor department monthly jobs report. it was the second month where job month -- job growth came in well below expectations. economists had forecast more than 400,000 jobs added in the month while the unemployment rate sank from 4.2% in november to 3.9%. that means unemployment is nearing what was a 50 year low of 3.5% achieved in february 2020. the october and november initial reports with 546,000 and 210,000 jobs added respectively were revised upward. in interviews, many economists said they felt the report was stronger than the topline jobs figure. but the numerous economic forces unleashed by the pandemic in 2020 including inflation, labor shortage, and supply chain woes
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continued to weigh on the labor market and make it hard to predict what will happen next. we want to know from you what your job situation is. before we talk to you, we want to get an expert to tell us what is going on with these economic numbers so we will bring on heat her long, an economics columnist with "the washington post" to expand what these numbers mean. good morning. caller: -- guest: good morning. host: we saw prior to the pandemic the unemployment rate was 3.9 present and the unemployed around 5.7 million. what do the latest numbers tell us about the job market right now? guest: everyone is surprised at how strong the overall picture is in the labor market. remember back to the great recession, that horrible period in 2008 and 2009, it took us until 2018, almost a decade to
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get to a figure like 3.9 percent unemployment. in a year and a half, certainly it is a result of all of that stimulus money that the government put out to try to ease small businesses and aid families to keep people afloat and in a good position to get back. there is some hesitation and concern why we are only 199,000 jobs added in december. that was about half of what was forecast and hope for. i will say two things. number one is that hiring was particularly weak in retail and healthcare. healthcare is really struggling with burnout right now. very few government jobs added and pretty weak on things like hotels. they only added a couple thousand whereas we were seeing tens of thousands added earlier in the year. the other thing to keep in mind is that almost every month we
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have seen in 2021 big revisions up in the numbers when the data comes out the following month. when we saw that jobs report yesterday, there was a big bounce up in the november and the october numbers. a lot of people look at that 199 number and it is definitely low, but it would not surprise me to see that raised the something that close to 300,000 when all is said and done. host: does that mean that we should look at the current numbers with a skeptical eye? do we know they will be adjusted up or is -- are we just assuming this? guest: we do not know for sure. what we saw in the jobs report is there are two surveys that make up the jobs report. one where the government goes out and they survey households and they ask individual families and people are you employed,
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full-time or part-time, what is your wages. the other survey is called the payroll survey and that is where they ask businesses have you added more employees, how many employees did you add. usually the payroll survey where they are talking to businesses is considered the one that is a better gauge. that is the one that has been telling us some funky numbers in recent months and that is where that 199,000 came from. the household survey where they ask families how is it going, that showed almost 650,000 people getting jobs in december. there is a big disparity between what those two surveys are telling us. generally speaking, the figures keep getting revised up closer to the household survey. that is why i think economists and the stock market did not panic on friday and that is why economists think this will be
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revised up a little bit. host: there were jobs added to the american economy. what sectors were those jobs added to? guest: great question. i have the run down here. once again we saw a lot of hospitality jobs added, particularly in restaurants. about 42,000 jobs added in the restaurant and bar sector. that is weaker than what we saw in the summer. business services added about 33,000. manufacturing continues to do a good rebound, adding 26,000. construction is a little weaker in the winter, but we had some warm weather on the east coast lately until the snow hit. they added 22,000. the warehouse and transport sector, 18,000. we continue to see some broad-based hiring. the economy did add back 6.4 million jobs for all of 2021. that was the best year ever on record since we started keeping
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records on this in 1939. overall, the year was very strong. it did get weaker in november and december. some of that could be because it gets harder at a certain point to add back more jobs than it is initially when industries were trying to hire anyone they could to get going again in this recovery. host: can we tell how omicron is affecting the job market? guest: that is a great question. when i first saw that 199,000 number i thought, was this a covid impact. there is very little sign of that. some of the strongest hiring in december was restaurants and bars. the surveys i mentioned where they go out and they ask businesses and households how they are doing with the job situation, those occurred around december 12 so that was really before we see that big surge in
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the omicron over the holidays at the end of the month. a lot of this data is coming from much earlier when we did not see tons of people absent from work. finally, they have also been asking during the pandemic, the labor department added an extra survey where they were asking people are you having to stay home from work? is your business closed because of the pandemic? those responses actually went down in december compared to november. there is not a lot of sign that omicron was a big factor in december. it will probably be a big factor in january. host: the bureau of labor statistics also reports that over the past 12 months average hourly earnings have increased by 4.7%. put that in perspective for us? what does that mean? guest: that is a really big number than what we have seen historically. i have written tons of stories
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about how wages, we could barely get it about 3%. now we have 4.7% and that is the average across all industries. the biggest gains have been happening for the lowest wage workers, the workers earning under $17 an hour have seen even higher gains. the hospitality sector, it is close to 13% gains in the past year. they are coming from a lower base, but that is really a good sign. i will point out that two things are important. 4.7% wage gain in the past year, but inflation has been running at 6.8% so the average pay is not keeping up with inflation. the encouraging sign is if you just look at the pay gains in the last three months, it is running at about 6%. more on par with inflation, it seems like workers would strike. you mentioned workers quitting. people are demanding higher pay.
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they know what is going on and they want their employer to renumeration them -- remunerate them accordingly. that is putting pressure on employers to raise wages rapidly and we continue to see that. host: heather, i'm going to put you on the spot. tell us your expectations for the economy in 2022 and we will come back next january and see how you did. guest: this is always a tough one. i would say it is one of these situations where it is going to come in like a lion and go out like a lamb. omicron is disruptive the economy, flights, football games, the entertainment sector, the travel sector. we are getting to a point where people are starting to live with this virus, get vaccinated, get tested, figure this out and move beyond it. i am hopeful that by the summer, a lot of these supply-chain glitches will be in a better
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place and more under control and that overall we can see some real bounce back for restaurants, the travel sector. i am pretty optimistic that the second half of the year could finally be a lot more normal for the economy and hopefully for our day-to-day lives. host: we will keep this on tape and come back to you next year. we would like to thank heather long, economic columnist for "the washington post" for walking us through the jobs numbers. thank you so much. guest: thanks a lot. host: we want to know what your job situation is. what does it look like out there for you? are you unemployed? do you have a job and you are looking for a job? are you not looking for a job? did you drop out of the job market? let's see what america is saying this morning. let's start with sue calling from michigan. good morning. caller: good morning.
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age 52 so retired at this point and with no intention whatsoever of going back into the market because conditions do not indicate freedom for people working anymore. conditions are so fascist as proclaimed by both parties because nobody is objecting but the supreme court in their argument noted that the conditions of required vaccination for american citizens is not being represented by the parties that are fighting the mandate. shame on the federal government. this country is unrecognizable at this point. i think both parties are really at fault here. talking about data, nobody believes the data anymore. this is very unfortunate. we are a trusting people, we are
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a good people. this is so oppressive for the american people these days. nobody wants to be hooked up to some corporation that is going to dictate all of the federal government's requirements. nothing has made any sense. host: how long have you been out of the job market? when did you retire? you jumped off. let's talk to brenda who is calling from antioch, california. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: one of the problems i am having is that i have a pretty decent job now with good benefits and everything. when i go out and i look and there are a lot of jobs out there, but most of them are not permanent jobs. most of them have no benefits. in many ways, i am stuck because
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i cannot find anything comparable out there for me. host: are you looking for new jobs in the same industry or any job that is available that will get you the benefits and the wages you need? caller: i am looking for jobs primarily in my industry because i am in healthcare. but the jobs that are out there, most of them are not permanent jobs. they are all temporary or in san francisco, what they called exempt, which means you do not get benefits. i am still looking, but i have not been able to find anything out there. there are a lot of jobs out there, but they are not high-paying well benefited jobs. host: that is when i was about to ask because one area where you would think there would be a lot of jobs right now is healthcare. you are saying the jobs are the air, but they are not the jobs that pay what you need. caller: right.
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what has been happening here because i work for the city of san francisco is that all of the jobs that they have been hiring our temporary jobs -- are temporary jobs. temporary-exempt. even though you are working for the city, you are a contract. that means they can let you go at any moment so there is no job security either. host: let's go to diana who is calling from new york. good morning. caller: good morning. i have to agree. one of the main problems you have is not that people are not looking, but they are being taken out of the workforce because these shots are being mandated. it is amazing to me that the woman you had on earlier from "the washington post" mentioned
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all of the factors that are involved in people being unemployed and what has led to the numbers, but not once did she mention these mandates that are happening in new york and california and several places like san francisco. even if a person is qualified and even if they are willing to go in and accept the wages and accept the fact that they are not any benefits, which is insane at this point, especially with everything going on. if you tell them that they have to have some chemical shot into their body and they do not want it, how are they going to be able to work? i know five people who are fully qualified experienced people with degrees that have been put out of work. it is just amazing to me how the corporate media does not cover this. they are not even discussing
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unless they are demonizing these people. they are not discussing how those numbers factor into what is going on in terms of unemployment. host: you say you are not looking for a new job, but you do have a job right now? caller: no. i work for myself. i will not suggest -- subject myself to that tyranny. i think it is not fair for anyone to dictate to you that you have to alter your body permanently just to be a part of a company structure for a few hours a day. host: let me make sure i understand. you are saying you are self-employed. do you have any employees? caller: do i have employees? no. host: you work by yourself for yourself? caller: yeah. host: what industry are you in? caller: consulting and
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entertainment. host: let's go to sandy calling from kent, ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. these numbers, i have to disagree with the numbers because in my area here, you see signs everywhere. i saw one guy on tv. he was kind of funny. he said i will hire anyone who is breathing. another guy could not find employees in hospitality. he got a robot. can you imagine? a robot bringing your food to your table because he could not find employees. even wendy's had a sign, "we
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only have two people. please be patient." the food quality is not there. if they do hire somebody, they do not know how to cook. it is just amazing those numbers. the unemployment, the numbers are down. you just cannot find people. host: do you think the situation is that employers cannot find workers or employers cannot find workers to take the lope that the employer's -- the low pay employers are offering? caller: probably both. i do not know for sure. there are higher wages for mcdonald's. work today, get paid tomorrow at burger king. you can work for one day and you do not have to wait a week or
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two to get paid. you get paid the next day and they still cannot get people. maybe you are right. they probably did not get much benefits either. the variant, the virus is very high here in kent. very very high in the hospitals. the national guard called out to help in the hospitals. it is bad. still right here in our area. host: yesterday, president biden came out to discuss the december job numbers and his administration's economic policy. here's what president biden had to say. [video clip] pres. biden: today's national unemployment rate fell below 4% to 3.9%, the sharpest one year drop in unemployment in united states history and the first time the unemployment rate has been under 4% in the first year of a presently short-term in 50
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years. 3.9% unemployment rate. years faster than the experts said would be able to do it and we have added 6.4 million new jobs since january of last year. in one year. that is the most jobs in any calendar year by any president in history. how? how did that happen? the american rescue plan. the economy off its back and moving again -- the american rescue plan got the economy off its back and moving again. back to work even in the face of wave after wave of covid. we got schools open. we got booster shots. we brought down the poverty rate and went from 20 million people on unemployment one year ago to under 2 million people on unemployment today. america is back to work and
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there are more historical accomplishments. the increase in america's labor force was the fastest this year as any year since 1996. and workers ages 25 to 54 are increasing in labor force participation, the biggest in 43 years. record job creation, record unemployment declines, record increases in people in the labor force. i would argue the biden economic plan is working and it is getting america back to work, back on his feet -- back on its feet. host: let's see what our social media followers are saying about their current job situation. here is one tweet that says " employed but student loans swallow up most of my paycheck." here is a post from facebook that says, "i live in a red
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state so my job situation is good." another says, "self-employed musician currently retired. will un-retire once the pandemic is over." another facebook post says, "i live in a red state. i am self-employed. my job is good. the biden administration has made it harder to secure material and so much more expensive." another post says, "great. our company never slowed down much during the pandemic. the wages are not following inflation." one last post on facebook that says, "i quit my full-time job in healthcare to do 13 week travel assignments at four times the pay for the same work." we want to know what your current job situation is. what is it looking like for you out there in the job market? before we get back to our phone calls, i want to bring a little
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bit from a story on cnbc.com that talks about the unemployment rate and how it is looking for other people in the job market. the unemployment rate was a fresh pandemic era low amid the 50 year low of 3.5% in february 2020. that decline came even though the labor force participation rate was unchanged at 61.9% amid an ongoing labor shortage in the u.s.. a more encompassing measure of unemployment that includes discouraged workers and those holding part-time jobs for economic reasons slid to 7.3%, down 0.4 percentage points. although the overall jobless rate fell, unemployment for blacks rising to 7.1% from 6.5%. the rate for white women 20
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years and older fell sharply to 3.1% from 3.7%. that is from cnbc.com and their story about the hiring faltering in december as payrolls rose only 199,000. we want to know what your current job situation is. let's go to louis who was calling from washington -- who is calling from washington. good morning. caller: good morning. i collect food benefits i am a college student. it is a real life story that i have had where even money does not come to me all the time, but some benefits for a very long time. it is a real life story.
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host: let's go to alex calling from south carolina. good morning. caller: how are you doing? i just want to address the fact that i am looking to change jobs. i am retired military. i work in the newspaper industry. and the skills are changing so much in the newspaper industry. the newspaper industry is getting smaller. i look at the things that i value on the job as my natural evolution of working for 30 years in the military and my job at the newspaper and what i want. i am looking for a new job. what i am trying to articulate is my son is 22 years old. he was a senior in college and
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when covid started, we sat down and talked and i came to the realization that these young people are really realigning what they look for jobs -- for in jobs. job security, pension, and all that. he was saying, job security, just go out and find another job. people like me, older, we do not change jobs. school is not an option right now because of the stuff on campus. my son tends to go out and gets a job and moves forward. it is just the realization of
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the thinking of generations between my son and myself how we change jobs. i do not think like him and he does not think like me and i did not think a lot of that is being articulated in these numbers. host: let's go to stephen calling from saks worth, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing today? first of all, i watch bloomberg news a lot. in november, there were 4.2 million people that draft out of the workforce -- dropped out of the workforce. 4.2 million people that dropped out in november. that is a big number between 18 and 54-year-olds. you take that and you take this mandate shot and people are
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upset about this. it is like president biden wants to be a dictator. host: do you think these people are leaving the jobs because of the mandate or are they leaving the jobs because of the wages and benefits? caller: the mandate. every employer wants to make sure everybody is vaccinated to this mandate. you have to show your shot. you have to remember all the firemen, nurses in new york city and paramedics that dropped out of the workforce and police officers. it is sad. it truly is sad. about this whole coronavirus and everything else. but our lives have been changed. i am fully vaccinated. i have to say that.
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i believe what my doctor tells me. the mandate, a lot of these people, i live in a completely red district and they are paying thousand dollar bonuses, up to $3000 bonuses to get people in and there has to be 500 to 600 job openings. it is really tough. host: since the caller brought it up, there is a story in "the washington post" that talks about the industries that people are resigning from. let's go to that story from "the washington post" to see exactly where we see the most resignations. "the great resignation continued into october with 4.2 million americans quitting their jobs that month according to new data from the bureau of labor statistics.
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hospitality and food, retail and arts, and entertainment and recreation continue to see high rates of workers quitting. although the numbers were down from summer peaks. workers continue to leave their jobs at record rates in healthcare, social assistance and nondurable goods manufacturing. demand for new hires remains high in those industries as job openings continue to increase. i'm in some industries, hiring can barely keep up with separation, a broader measure that includes retirement, layoffs, and resignations. the pandemic has spurred not only a record number of resignations, but also has caused a wave of early retirement that has increased separations across the labor market." that is from "the washington post" this morning where we see the industries with the highest rate of workers quitting include hospitality and food, and
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attainment and arts, and recreation. let's hear from christopher calling from new york. caller: good morning. i have been fully employed for the last seven years. i have a union job. i do not know anybody who is unemployed. i do not know anybody who is struggling. the thing about this on employment is that lead the people. people would rather not work and get all of these funds instead of going out there and working. i am not the richest person in the world but i am not struggling. i have food on the table all the time. i pay my bills. i pay my rent. i do not know. i just do not understand what is going on with this country. i know we are going through a crisis right now. covid.
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i did not know anybody that has died of covid. i did not know if that is something they are making up. i do not personally know anybody neither do the people that i know know anybody with covid. i do not know if it is just here and everybody else everywhere else is struggling. i want the country to do good. i just wanted to say that. i love the show. i really like it. host: let's go to poly coming -- polly calling from st. petersburg, florida. caller: thank you so much for taking my call. i have been recovering from being cyber hacked for over a year now and i cannot access any jobs because my internet does not ever reliably work. they have ruined my devices with viruses so i have no computers to use to look for a job.
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at some point, i will end up on the public toll because i cannot support myself because i cannot get a job because i cannot access a job because i have been hacked. fbi does nothing about it. it is not the first time they did not do anything. i am not alone i'm sure in the suffering from the cybersecurity issue and it is going to render me either a homeless person that nobody wants to see or it is going to end up with me on some sort of public assistance because i cannot access anything with these cyber attackers. host: i feel sorry that you are going through what you're going through with the cyber hacking. have you tried using computers at public libraries or somewhere to access the internet? caller: yes. once i access my accounts, these people are already in and they immediately change my password. host: have you reported this to the local police and authorities? caller: yes.
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and every representative in my state. rick scott set up the employment system so people cannot access it. matt gaetz was not happy with me calling him a snowflake on twitter. host: let's go to allen calling from michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you very much for taking my call. i am a retired person. i took a job working part-time because inflation is so high. what i was collecting on retirement was not going to be enough to cover my expenses. here i am looking at being unemployed again only because of the fact i will not get v axxed. like their previous caller said, i do not know people who have have covid. i know people who have covid but
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i did not know people who have died from it. i did not notice any constitutional comments made in the supreme court. nobody said it is constitutional to have people get vaxxed/ . it is my body, my choice. host: what industry are you looking for a job in? caller: in the automotive field. host: construction or sales? caller: sales. host: you are saying that there are no jobs in your industry or are you saying there are no jobs in your industry that will not let you work unvaxxed? caller: yes unless it is less than 100 employees, which is what the supreme court ruling will determine in a few days here. host: let's go to douglas who is calling from washington. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say that
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president biden was saying how great everything he has done is. i just want to say that when the pandemic started and they shut down everybody and now we have vaccines and therapeutics and stuff and everybody is going back to work plus people are getting fired for not getting the vaccine. he acts like he created all of them jobs when all that is is people are going back to work from being kicked out of their jobs for a year or whatever. what every he is calling this economic thing is not from him. in our town vaccinated
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but -- host: if i'm hearing you correctly, you are saying there are a bunch of jobs in your town that do not require you to be vaccinated, yet there are still people not taking those jobs? caller: absolutely. there are so many jobs, it is amazing that people will not go to work. i cannot -- i do not get it either. when i did work, i always had a second job. i did it because i made extra money. there are so many jobs here, it is unreal. host: at least in your area, it is not any vaccine mandate that is keeping people unemployed? caller: nope, not at all. i have a son. i do not know why, but he does not seem like he needs a job. host: which brings me to my next question. why do you think people are not taking the jobs available? caller: i cannot answer that.
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i think it is because a lot of the jobs here, it is too hard work. they do not want to do it because it is hard work in the temper industry and they do not want to do it. that is just the bottom line. it is hard for the companies here to get younger kids and workers to take the jobs because they do not want to work hard. it is not the same. host: what do you think about the wages and salaries for those jobs? are those jobs paying enough for what they ask employers to do? caller: yes, it is way up. it is amazing compared to when i was working how much it has went up. it needed to go up when i was working. it has went up a lot. it is still hard with the price of housing and stuff. it is harder for kids to have a job to even save up to get a house anymore. but there are jobs that are
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paying really good here. people do not want to do them. it is too hard work. host: you heard douglas in washington. jobs are available for people. let's go to james calling from clearwater, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. yes, i am a 78-year-old man, i am retired. i am living on social security. i get $1500 a month and my rent is $1400 a month. i got in trouble. i went to prison 10 years ago. i got out and rent was $700 a month then. now it is 1400 to 1600. $1800 in some places. i'm having a hard time paying bills. i have a car that is 20 years old. i cannot hardly afford to put
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gas in it. my life is in real shambles. when it comes to unemployment, i think if people want to work, some of the jobs, but if you can only make enough to pay your rent, it is not like it used to be where you could pay the rent and live. insurance, food, like everybody else, we have to have these things. but it is very tough to do that. host: let's talk to marsha calling from portland, oregon. good morning. caller: hello, jesse. am i muted? host: we can hear you, marsha. go ahead. caller: good. happy, jesse. thanks for taking my call. i am a black female calling from portland, oregon, blue state. i have a doctorate degree.
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i have a double masters degree. i am a certified master. i am certified in my sq well. i know html, javascript. i have been looking for a job for years before covid. i am not willing to take the vaccine because i am a data scientist and i have a lot of clinical experience and research and it takes about 10 to 15 years to develop a vaccine. i do not know what they are giving people. they are doing all of these boosters and stuff. that is what they call refinement because they need to do more trials. but i am really discouraged. you just go into a major depression. i have applied for so many jobs.
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i have written cover lett ers that are going into detail. i have applied for internships and the people take a look at you and they see you are over 30, 35. i have no idea what to do. host: you say you have been looking for years for a job in your particular industry. caller: yes. i have been certified as a certified scrum master since 2019. host: tell us what that is. some people might not know what that is. caller: sorry. it is a project manager for i.t. projects. host: and you have been looking for a job in that industry as that position for years? caller: yes, for about three
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going on four years. i cannot get any opportunities. i cannot get any internships. i do not know what is going on. i have applied for diversity because i have lived and traveled all over the world. i speak french. i speak italian. i can make my way through in spanish. and nothing. host: that was going to be my next question. have you looked for jobs in other areas outside of portland? perhaps those jobs do not exist where you live. caller: exactly. i used to live in europe and when i lived in europe, i was always working. always working. i am trying to find a remote job. outside of oregon. because i am completely discouraged, there are no jobs
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here. host: let's go to virginia who is calling from north platte, nebraska. good morning. caller: hello? host: good morning. caller: hi. i am on ssi so i am unemployed. i have back problems. i was going to say about the hospitality world, and this is probably pre-covid. the hospitality world, you do not get paid a lot. you want to put a smile on somebody's face. but when people can be so mean and crass, it kind of takes the fun away and not very much money. try to be a little bit kinder. thank you. host: let's dale who is calling from illinois.
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pronounce the name of your town. did i get anywhere close? caller: skokie. anyway, i am the flipside. i work in i.t. and i just returned late 70. i am working now but i am looking for a new job because i am not really comfortable with the company i have been working with for almost a year. i am getting lots of contacts in i.t. just not so many interviews. i am looking, but i am employed. i have a five-year full-time employee contact and at my age, they force you to take social security when you turn 70 so i am also drawing social security. i am seeing a lot of jobs. every monday, i have over 100 emails.
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over the weekend when i do not log on. there are jobs out there in i.t. host: yesterday, president biden came out to discuss the release of new data on worker wages. here is what president biden had to say. [video clip] pres. biden: today's report also tells us that record wage gains especially for workers in some of america's toughest jobs, women and men who work on the front line jobs in restaurants, hotels, travel, tourism, desk clerks, line cooks, waitstaff, bellman, they all saw their wages at historic highs, the highest in history. their pay went up almost 16% this year, far ahead of inflation, which is still a concern. overall, wage gains for workers who are not supervisors went up more in 2021 than any other year in four decades.
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there has been a lot of coverage about people quitting their jobs. today's report tells you why. americans are moving up to better jobs with better pay, better benefits. that is why they are quitting their jobs. this is not about workers walking away and refusing to work. it is about workers able to take a step up to provide for themselves and their families. this is the kind of recovery i promised and hope for for the american people. the biggest benefits go to the people who work the hardest and are more often left behind. the people who have been ignored before. the people who just won a decent chance to build a decent life for their family, if given a clear shot. for them, wages are up, job opportunities are up, layoffs are down to the lowest levels in decades, and there are more chances than ever to get ahead. no wonder one leading economic
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-- analyst described what we have accomplished in 2021 as the strongest first year economic track record of any president in the last 50 years. [end video clip] host: let's see what social media followers are saying about their current job situation. here is one tweet that says, "hospital worker. it is absolutely horrible." another tweet says, "i saw a healthy looking young woman with a sign saying she had been laid off, please help. across the street was a mcdonald's with a now hiring signs." another tweet says, "why are they not taking jobs available? hard work deserves good money, just like gas prices and hurricanes, wages and a pandemic increase. why is that so hard for conservatives to figure out?" another tweet says, "many took early retirement or an early covid break."
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one last tweet that says, "retired, not looking. lots of jobs available at low wages and no benefits. too many jobs put workers in contact with a hostile unvaccinated public and are not worth the wages paid." we want to know what your job situation is but before we go back to our phones, i want to read a response from house minority leader kevin mccarthy to the current job numbers. this is what kevin mccarthy had to say, "our economy should be soaring right now but the policy of this administration will continue to stifle growth and hold back american businesses and workers. president biden has been in office for nearly a year and our economy is still missing millions of pre-pandemic jobs. consumers are facing inflationary pressure not felt in nearly 40 years and employers continue to struggle with a persistent labor shortage."
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that comes from house minority leader representative kevin mccarthy of california. we want to know what your job situation is. let's go to kathy calling from fremont, california. good morning. caller: good morning. i have always had two jobs. one at the alameda county library and i work for fremont unified school district for 32 years. recently, i was terminated from that job and i do not know exactly why. i have been using jobs from the employment development department in california to look for new jobs. we also have the tri-city one stop which is a federal program. i have been told they can help me get a job, but i have not had any success yet and i was laid off november 4. the california education allows the school board members to do that at their pleasure.
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they did not tell me why. the reason i am calling is because the internet access that you have to get jobs is really poor. i tried for a whole week to get a job in another school district, but they all use ed -join and it does not work very well and even the people at the employment development department said they could not get it to work. i get these jobs, maybe 25 per day, and you go into their site and it does not go in there and it gives you about 10 other jobs so it is really hard to use their system. but i am still looking and i have rented rooms in my house before too, but that did not go very well after a while. host: let's go to scott calling from california. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, scott. caller: yes, i am retired so i
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am really not looking for work right now, but i did want to comment that i find it interesting that previous caller was from california also. i wanted to comment on the fact that here in california we have the highest unemployment rate in the nation. it just went down a bit this past month where it is now just under 7% for the first time. i find it ironic that in his speech, joe biden talks about the unemployment rate falling and one of the reasons he has the unemployment rate falling is because the red state are doing quite well relatively speaking versus the blue state. here in california, you have a situation where the nfl is looking to potentially move the super bowl out of california because things are too up in the air right now in terms of whether or not they will be able to do the super bowl with all of
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the requirements that they have. the state has increased their mask mandates or extended it to mid february and it is just a real problem. "the san francisco chronicle" last month did an article and nowhere in the article did he mention the points i am making. they simply talked about the entertainment and the services sector as being down, the entertainment and tourism sectors as being down. nowhere in it did they get into the relatively high unemployment rate given the actions of the state in any respect. host: let's go to jackie calling from appleton, wisconsin. good morning. caller: good morning. i do have a job. i have had it for a few years. but i keep my eye open just
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because of the new wages and stuff available. my job is very flexible so that is why i stay for less pay. we are in wisconsin and i did not know if it seems like we are in a different part of the world. our lives continue. we go out for friday fish fry in old-fashion. if you want a job, there is a job. the only reason you are not working is you do not want to. i have friends who made more on unemployment for a year than i made working at my job. they do not need to go back to work and they are not going to until the government backs off and actually makes them get a job. i used to have to, when i was laid off, apply for jobs and if you did not take a job that was accepted, you were done with unemployment. that is no longer a work requirement in a lot of areas. host: let's go to michael calling from hines burke,
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vermont. good morning. caller: happy weekend, everyone and happy new year. thanks for taking my call. i have been on quite the roller coaster. i worked my way through college three times and got a fantastic education, been a national sales executive vice president. what they now call the great recession right around 2008, i turned 50, lost a great job, and i have been scrimping since then to raise my family in vermont. i just want everybody to know, there are jobs here. they are not vice president jobs, but there are i.t. jobs. there are people that would love to grow their company. everything that is going on with the infrastructure, i know right now that with what is going to happen with the infrastructure here, we do not have enough workers to spend that money for the roads and the airports and expanding the internet.
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there are jobs. as an example, i made it to retirement. i managed to continue to raise my family here. i'm going to work at a local restaurant where we are one third staffed. i'm going in on 65 years old with a really positive attitude and trying to set an example for people that are much younger than me and are struggling. but i'm going to go in there with the best attitude i can and if you are out there looking for a job, you are going to find a lot of it is -- your attitude will determine your altitude. you might never have a fancy title again but it feels good just to open the door for a young woman strolling a baby into the restaurant. i have been like that my whole life so i think your attitude for how lucky some of us have been comes along with how you treat other people.
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host: we would like to thank all of our callers for calling in for our first segment. coming up next, peter hepburn of eviction lab will be here to discuss the increase in eviction filings after the end of the year-long national eviction moratorium and also, new laws aimed at protecting tenants. later, we will have conservative political commentator michael knowles, the host of "the michael knowles show." he will be here to discuss his podcast and the news of the day. stick with us. we will be right back. ♪
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>> next week, the senate will debate on sanctions on the pipeline and diplomatic relations. chuck schumer also intends on working on the voting rights bill which may include changing the filibuster rules. the house returns to take up benefit legislation. dr. anthony fauci, and other members of the covid response team appear before a senate committee to discuss the omicron variant. also tuesday, the senate banking committee holds a hearing for jerome powell, who
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president biden nominated to serve as the fed chair. the senate banking committee returned thursday a second federal reserve confirmation hearing, this one to be the vice chair and sandra thompson to be director of the federal housing finance agency. we will have coverage of several supreme court oral arguments monday through wednesday, live beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span.org and c-span now video app. head over to c-span.org for scheduling. or to stream video live on demand anytime. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with peter hepburn, a senior fellow at princeton university's eviction lab and professor of sociology
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and he is here to talk with us today about eviction filings and the covid 19 pandemic. good morning. guest: takes for having me on. host: tell us what the eviction lab is. guest: the eviction lab is a research organization based at princeton university, founded by the author of the book "evicted," and it was established to try to get a sense -- to investigate the causes and consequences of eviction in america. his work in the book gave us a really in-depth portrait of the eviction process in milwaukee. work at the lab is to look beyond their and at what the prevalence of eviction is across the country, what's the factors are that are driving and what
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consequences it has on individuals and families. host: how long has the eviction lab been in existence in where do you get your funding from guest:? -- from? guest: the funding is from philanthropic sources. host: you helped develop the lab here how did you start the lab in what is it used for? guest: we started the eviction tracking system in march of 2020 in the early weeks of the covid 19 pandemic. what the eviction lab had established to that point was a database, fiction filing, judgment from around the country between 2000 and 2016 and we had a good sense of where it was under normal circumstances but did not have the means of monitoring what was happening in
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real-time. with the numbers people -- number of people losing their jobs and a lot of people experience economic distress in the early weeks of the pandemic were likely to be -- and we wanted to get a sense whether eviction filings were spiking. we developed a way collecting fiction filing data from court systems around the country to monitor what was happening in real time. at this point we collect those data from six states and 31 cities across the country, one in every four renter households in the u.s.. i think it has been a very useful way, knowing what's actually happening in the market. host: looking at your numbers for the eviction lab right now, we see there has been 670,725
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evictions since mid-march 20 20 and more than 4000 evictions in the last week. are these evictions because of what happened during the pandemic, or do you think these are normal numbers for evictions in the united states? guest: these are lower than what we would normally see. in 2016, under normal circumstances and unemployment rates below 5%, there was 3.7 million eviction cases filed in the year. in the 22 months since the covid 19 pandemic started, we have been able to track the 670,000 eviction filing on the sites we monitor. that is about 44% average for those. a lot fury eviction cases then we would normally see.
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host: why is it fewer? you would think there was more with fewer people working because of the pandemic, you would think there would be fewer people able to pay the rent. guest: i think the lower numbers we have seen over the course of the last almost two years are a testament to the capacity of state intervention. looking at eviction moratoria established by the cares act and the cdc moratorium as well as moratoria established by 43 states and the district of columbia, those protections helped to keep people in their homes. there are also other interventions, things like stimulus payments, expanded unemployment insurance, the extended child tax credit, and emergency rental assistance that have allowed to prevent it fiction cases from being filed. host: that brings us to my next
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question -- the federal eviction moratorium ended last fall. how has that affected evictions in the united states and what has happened since that moratorium ended? guest: the supreme court struck down the cdc's eviction moratorium last year. since that time, eviction filings have increased, but they still remain well below historical average and almost all of the sites track. overall, eviction filings across sites since the cdc order was struck down are still about 40% below historical average. host: while we continue our conversation, let me remind our viewers that they can't take part in this conversation. we will open up special lines, first of all, we want to hear from renters. if you are renting right now and you face eviction or if you are
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renting and worried about eviction, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. if you are a landlord, if you own property and thinking about evicting someone or you have had to evict someone in the past, we want to know what your process is. your number will be (202) 748-8001. if you don't fit in either one of those categories but still want to join the conversation, we are opening up a line for everyone else. that line will be (202) 748-8002 . renters, (202) 748-8000. landlords, (202) 748-8001. everyone else, (202) 748-8002. you can always text, and we are always reading on twitter and facebook.
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peter, is the lower number of evictions because of the backup in the court system, or is it because of a lower number of filings? guest: it is possible -- there are jurisdictions where there has been a backup, and that may be a disincentive to landlords who are considering if they know the case won't be heard quickly. but that is not true everywhere, certainly, and we are tracking those filings. there are a few jurisdictions where we started to see them increase above historical average, that is the exception rather than the law. host: we know about the federal moratorium going away last fall. are there many states or cities who still have moratoriums on evictions and can states and cities do anything about people
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being evicted? guest: at this point, there are very few state eviction moratoria still in place. i am hearing in new york city, new york has an eviction moratorium that will remain in effect for another week. new mexico has an eviction moratorium in place, but aside from those two states, that is pretty much it. there are a number of jurisdictions that have restrictions on eviction filings so landlords have to go through the process of applying for emergency rental assistance before they can file with the courts. host: and the argument for keeping the federal eviction moratorium and the argument for keeping state and local moratoriums is that if the moratoriums go away, we will see a huge glut of evictions kicking people out of their apartments, just as winter has started.
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do we see those predictions come true? guest: we have not seen it as a large spike after the end of the cdc eviction moratorium, what is concerning is that we are getting to a point where a lot of programs, especially in larger estates, are starting to run out of emergency funds. as those sources of funding dry out -- dry up, the maybe less incentive for tenants and renters to work through the issues. host: talk about the assistance that people are getting from state, local, and federal governments on staying there -- staying in their apartments. there still may be assistance going to renters and maybe even landlords to keep people from being evicted. guest: between the appropriations act of 2021 and
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the american rescue plan in march of last year, congress appropriated $46.5 billion in emergency rental, more than the annual budget of the housing and urban development. there was reporting, especially through the first half of last year about how those funds were slow to be rolled out. they were this to be did by the state level, county level, city level, and tribal level across the country. they were trying to figure out how to make these operations work. as the year progressed, they got better, to the point that in november of last year, there were 655,000 households helped by programs and $2.9 billion was distributed. by the end of last year, the
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treasury estimates between $25 billion and $30 billion of that emergency rental assistance money has been spent or allocated to renters and landlords. host: lets let some of our viewers join in this conversation. let's start with john, who is calling from wisconsin. john is a landlord. good morning. caller: good morning. inc. you for taking my call. -- thank you for taking my call. i have been a landlord for 30 years now. i feel that it is steered that landlords like to evict people, and that is the last thing you generally want to do. i think especially at the beginning, the state was slow at helping the owners of properties and expected you to cover all of
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the expenses without any help. guest: thank you for calling. i think you are right that there was actually a slow rollout of assistance to landlords, and in some cases we have only seen that pickup in the last few months. i am not sure off of the top of my head whether waukesha is in the state program or if there is a county program for emergency rental assistance. i know the state program in wisconsin voluntarily reallocated money to the larger cities and counties within the state that have been much more effective at getting them on the -- the money out the door. host: let's talk to another john, this one from madison, alabama. this john is a renter.
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john, good morning. john, are you there? caller: i am here. host: go ahead, john. caller: i am incorporate living, and i think there is a form of eviction/extortion that my rent has gone up 40% in five years. it seems like they have a form of extortion where i started out at 1285 four years ago and i met 1600 now and i know they will jacket up to 1775. how do you prevent -- jack it up to 1775. how you prevent this? how do they get away with that? guest: i think that is a serious
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issue, especially as we see rental markets heating up in parts of the country. there are jurisdictions that do limit the ability of landlords to raise rent as a form of rent control, that is relatively uncommon. most parts of the country, the landlord decides what they want -- where they want to set rent and how you increase the year-to-year if you are on an annual rate. in new york, we are seeing a push for a bill to introduce some rent controls more generally, even in parts of rental markets not covered by traditional rent control. and that is a model of how that could be funded at the state level. host: let's talk to kathy from bloomington, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to say that i have lived in a subsidy for 19 years, and i
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have seen these people that are getting all this help, and i mean big help, bigger help than anybody has ever gotten. they come in here with a cane and act like they are almost dead. as soon they get in and getting their subsidy and everything and got their apartment, the parties, the drugs, the alcohol, the cigarettes, all of that goes on. if the government wants to save money, i think they need to check in to these avenues. it doesn't seem like management can put a handle on it. it is mandatory that there is no smoking in the building. they don't listen to no authority. something has to be done about this. it is getting bad. and for us older people, which i
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am 75 years old, what we are doing is getting out because we can't handle living situations like this. at one time it used to be wonderful, beautiful, but i don't know what has happened. if you are giving out money to the newer ones coming in, you better check here i think most of them can work and you should check into that. one person is 18 years old who got in there. guest: i think it is important to draw a distinction between housing subsidies in the form of public housing and emergency rental assistance, which are very different and state programs. emergency rental assistance is available to people who have experienced economic hardship or employment loss as a result of the covid-19 pandemic and having difficulty paying rent currently. the vast majority of them will be paying that toward landlords
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on the private market. subsidized housing is entirely different. generally, that sort of housing either in public housing authorities is, a lot of restrictions on tenants and their behavior. i am sorry that kathy has had this experience but i don't know that is generalized to the entire population. host: i wanted to play for you a clip of senator sherrod brown talking on the senate floor talking about the rental assistance the government has given out during the pandemic, and then i want you to react. here is senator sherrod brown of ohio. [video clip] sen. brown: they work with us on help for eviction and emergency rental assistant, cutting red
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tape and encouraging them to move past that to get help. it has delivered impressive results. within 520,000 renters received emergency rental assistance in october alone, meaning the families kept their homes and kept their lights on and worked to get back on their feet. in total, more than 2.5 million payments have gone out to tenants and landlords. with the end of the year, we need the final push to get funding to renters and landlords who need it. host: congress has approved $47 billion in federal rental assistance last year. how much of that has been distributed, and where is it going? guest: as of the end of 2021, treasury expects that between $25 billion and $30 billion of those overall funds will either have been spent or obligated to
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landlords. there have been, these funds were distributed by programs at the state double, county level, city, and tribal level across the country. there are programs that have done a better job of others and gotten at out the door quickly. in new york, they have either spent or obligated all of the funds they initially received. there is money that is being reallocated from other programs that have spent less funds and that may divide additional money to the states that have exhausted available rental assistance, but it remains to be seen how much overall that is going to be able to be moved around. host: for landlords who are watching, is there an easy place they can go to to access or apply for some of this when he, and for the renters watching, is there an easy place where they
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can go to apply for and access this money as allocated by congress? guest: it depends on where they live. i would recommend the national low income housing maintains a directory of all the programs operational. if you are a renter or a landlord, you can look up the programs operating where you live, and that may mean that you are essentially applying to a county level program or a state-level program, and you need to figure out which one applies to you. once you get to that stage, the application process for each program is a little different. what the administration has been trying to do over the course of the last year is to streamline the process so those applications are as simple and straightforward for tenants and for landlords. host: let's go back to our phone lines. let's talk to jim who is calling
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from prairie farm, wisconsin. and jim is a landlord. jim, good morning. caller: hello? host: you are on, jim. go ahead. caller: them getting everything they can get from the government and they haven't even tried to get a job. they were working before the pandemic. they are not even trying to find a job. they are just sitting there gathering money. host: go ahead and respond, peter. guest: it is hard to me to comment on a situation i don't know much about, but sounds like it must be difficult for jim. host: so the evictions that we are seeing happen around the united states, what will happen in courts with these eviction
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processes right now? guest: yeah, that's a good question. so what we are keeping track of on our end are eviction filings. this is when the cases are initially filed with courts. after that court -- point, the courts have a hearing and judges will issue some judgment on these cases and not all of the cases that are filed will result in eviction judgments for a share of putting someone out of their home. usually it is about 40% of cases that are filed actually result in a judgment. that varies from place to place. we also know that in some places , cases are being filed and applications for emergency rental assistance are going and simultaneously.
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hopefully more of these cases get dismissed and don't result in families actually removed from their homes. the other thing to keep in mind is eviction filings have a lasting effect on peoples' credit score and ability to find housing in the future. if you are a landlord and considering which tenet to take, you can screen there rental history and cfa have had any filings previously -- and see if they have any filings previously. that is a serious red flag, even if it never resulted in an eviction. as the numbers decrease, we see a growing number of people whose opportunities for stable housing moving forward end up being constrained. host: that serve answers the questions that one of our social media followers was about to ask, but i will ask and you can get more into that answer.
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the question is -- if people cannot be evicted because of the decree, doesn't that incentivize them to run up massive arrears and then seek new lodging once the moratorium expires? guest: it is hard to imagine that being an attractive option for anyone. that is a meaningful dent that will follow you for years. you can be sued in small claims court for those arrears even after you are evicted and your wages could be garnished moving forward. and as i said, you are going to have a harder time finding housing in the future. that will seriously restrict your ability to find subsidized housing and even on the open market, your options will be much more limited. host: i want to read a paragraph or the associated press story on evictions, because it comes from the other side of the issue, the landlord side. among the concerns is that some
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landlords who got federal assistance are still evicting tenants. a survey of merely 120 attorneys nationwide from the national housing law project found 86% had seen cases like this. they also saw increasing instances of landlords lying in court to evict tenants and illegally locking out tenants. are you seeing things like that as well? guest: so we don't have a good way of actually tracking that at this point. there are two separate issues here. the first one is landlords who have received emergency assistance and go on to evict tenants. in some cases, there are stipulations when landlords agree to receive rental assistance that say they cannot evict that tenant for some period of time, whether that be a couple months or up to a year. that is not true everywhere.
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there are programs where money can be deceived and a landlord can turn around and evict that tenant two months later, and that would be entirely legal and within their rights. we don't know how often that has happened. we hope that in the coming months as treasury makes available data on who is actually receiving these payments, that we can start to match them up with the eviction filing records and start to build that linkage and see where these cases are happening and if they are happening at a high rate. the other issue is illegal evictions happening throughout the pandemic period. what we are able to monitor and track our eviction filings with the courts. these are cases that are preceding to -- through former -- formal -- are preceding
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through formal processes. so we have a relative -- it is hard to see those cases, hard to track how many cases there are like that through normal consequences and there has not been a good way to do that to the pandemic. we do not know whether that is becoming more common or staying the same over the last 22 months. host: do we know what commonly happens to people once they are evicted from their apartment? is there an average of what normally happens to you once you are evicted? guest: one of the challenges is it is hard to follow people after they are evicted. we know that people generally experience that they are more likely to experience -- be in double housing, living with friends or relatives or to experience periods of
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homelessness. when you go back to the cdc eviction moratorium, that was explicitly a public health measure to reduce the spread of covid-19, the justification that being in those doubled up housing situations, those are things that will increase the spread of a respiratory virus, and we wanted to do and she still should be doing everything to prevent that. we also know that people, after they are evicted, have reported a wide variety of medical issues, they are more likely -- those who are pregnant and going through the eviction process are more likely to give birth to preterm or underweight babies, more likely to report depression and suicidal ideation, and there
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is a clear, negative effect. host: is there a negative effect to evictions for landlords? guest: there is absolutely a cost of replacing a tenant. right now, vacancy rates are in many places very low, but that doesn't necessarily translate into the neighborhoods where most evictions happen. there is a cost to having an apartment taken for a month or two that landlords have to weigh when they are considering whether to evict someone. host: let's talk to kenny, who is calling from byron, georgia. kenny, good morning. caller: good morning. i got a case on wednesday. and eviction and the tenant
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comes back and says i want to be put on a payment plan. i am thinking to myself, you are on a payment plan, a monthly plan. i don't think the judge can force me to accept less money per month because as the month ticks on, she is just going to go further in the whole. so we are going to have a trial about it. so thank you. guest: there have been a number of jurisdictions around the country who have tried to institute eviction diversion programs, in some cases very successfully. payment plans can be a useful step for tenants who have fallen a few months behind and trying to build back to being back in the black. that will not be the case everywhere but it does work in a lot of cases. i hope that kenny and his tenant can work things out or if they can get emergency rental
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assistance. host: let's go to felicia, who is calling from virginia. caller: i live in charlottesville, virginia, and i want to talk about what happens to the tenants who are paying rent. this past year, i struggled like you wouldn't believe. i had to tighten my belt and tighten my belt in live within my means. i lived in a duplex, and i watched the other tenant, it was obvious she wasn't working, but many people working down there put a strain on me because of the shared water bill, and then she had a new furniture delivered. we saw a car out there with new tags. this past year as i struggled, she was living large with bringing her family member into live with her.
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you most feel bad for the landlord because they couldn't do anything about it. and she hasn't been paying her rent and got kicked out, and left all kinds of debris in the yard and left a mess. the landlord had to clean that up. last year my rent was raised. i am sure it will be raised again because the landlord will have to make that up somewhere. so the people who have been working hard and paying bills and tightening their belts and living within their budget, they are the ones who paid the price while others have been sitting, buying cars, getting furniture, moving relatives income not paying rent, and leaving everybody else with the mess. this system is broken. in charlottesville, the system is definitely broken. we have an absolute mess here in
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charlottesville. we haven't open door policy, let illegal's come in. we don't have housing for half of the people who live here. host: go ahead and respond, peter. guest: that sounds very challenging. my heart goes out to you, felicia. i think those situations where tenants have moved in family are not always -- that can be a sign of hardship and hard times affecting a lot of people. the doubled up and more crowded situations are often a challenge , both for the people living in them and the people living nearby. i do hope that your landlord was able to access rental assistance funds to help make up any loss they suffered. virginia has one -- has been one of as a leader in making sure
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funds have been distributed. host: looking at your eviction lab numbers and especially the filings since arch of 2020, we have seen cities like new york -- since march of 20/20, we have cities like new york, las vegas, dallas, with a high number of filings. are there certain areas, certain cities in the united states where we are seeing more evictions than other areas? guest: there has been a lot of variation across the country. that is something we have continued to see after the moratorium ended last summer. in new york city, where we continue to have a moratorium on the books, filings are extremely low. we are talking about 85% less than historical average right now in new york city. by contrast, places like columbus, ohio, milwaukee, wisconsin, houston, texas, these areas'filings are at historical
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average or above average. host: let's go to kevin in ocean city, maryland. caller: i am from new jersey come in the moratorium has been lifted, but it really has not been lifted. we can file, but we cannot evict the tenants. so how is that moratorium being lifted? guest: there are number of states that had state-level moratoria in place that as those listed, there were a series of off ramps that occurred. there were restrictions on filings and hearings and over the next few months, each of
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those start to lift and the process will return to business as usual. host: let's talk to lisa, who is calling from laurel, maryland. this is a renter. lisa, good morning. caller: good morning. i am in a high-end senior building and since covid, you know, all of the amenities and things we pay for have been kind of suspended, including like the bathrooms in the lobby, the laundry room, you can only have two people at a time. but i am hearing a lot from many of your callers today, it is almost like the welfare queen scenario. there are some of us who pay a lot of money to live where we live, regardless of our race and
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background. i just want folks there to know, nobody is living high on the hog on the government. if the government is giving you money, you are not doing too well. the government is not giving me money because i work every day. when i listen sometimes to c-span, it seems like it is us against them, and everybody is struggling. thank you. guest: that is a great point. i think is worth emphasizing that when we talk about emergency rental assistance and the almost $47 billion made available, this is money that is ultimately going to landlords, not renters, and it will help to payoff debts, but it is not as though renters are walking away pocketing huge amounts of cash. host: i want to read to you a
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statement from the national association -- the national apartment association on the eviction moratorium and get you to respond to it. the long-term effects of the pandemic induced rental crisis extend beyond renters and landlords. when rent goes unpaid, owners can't for property taxes, which fund everything from schools to firefighters, or routine maintenance. we need to see swift distribution of the rental assistance that congress has allocated. just over $10 billion of the $47 billion allocated for emergency assistance funds has reached renters and housing providers as of september 30, meaning countless households have not received the help they need. programs must be streamlined and meet the intentions of congress without adding unnecessary red tape to the application progress -- process for owners and
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renters. that came from the national apartment association. what should congress be doing now? guest: congress could very well consider appropriating further emergency rental assistance funds. i think there was concern earlier last year that perhaps they had overspent on this program, the $47 billion was more than what was necessary. as the programs got better at moving money out, we are starting to see more and more of them run out and the level of need is really significant, and this money is now moving very quickly, being distributed and getting to landlords. it may well be that the $47 billion may end up not being sufficient, and there are, as the statement suggested, there are terms that are done longer-term.
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host: let's talk to richard who is calling from worktime heights, new york. richard is a landlord. good morning. caller: my question is, why does anyone believe that the landlord should absorb this cost of tenants not paying their rent? the landlords have expenses and when tenants aren't paying, there is a risk of them losing their property, and nobody ever considers that, where they believe the tenant has the right to stay there and not pay rent and we are exhorting -- we are absorbing these costs? how is this fair? guest: i think it is important to emphasize that the vast majority of renters, by all data, the vast majority have continued to pay rent and the vast majority of landlords have continued to collect something approaching full rent over the entire course of the pandemic. if you look at rent collection
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levels in 2019, 2020, 2021, they look relatively similar across the board. have actually been tenants who have fallen significantly in arrears and landlords who have suffered because of that, but that is not the median case for renters in this country. richard' is question was why do we expect landlords to absorb this loss? the answer is that we don't come and that is why congress appropriated this $47 billion in emergency rental assistance. that is money that is being paid out to landlords to reimburse them for their patience throughout the course of the first almost two years of this pandemic. host: let's talk to anthony who is calling from edison, new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. it seems to me like a lot of things with government, it seems like things happen too little, too late.
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this could have been a win from the start -- a win-win from that start if it was paid directly to the landlord. the landlord gets money and the people don't get a chance to take the money and squander it. if they needed food or other assistance, they could always get ebt or welfare or the food banks. at least you have a roof over your head. i am either -- neither a renter or landlord but i have been both and i know both sides of the coin and i also work for social services in the transportation vision. i know that in a state like new jersey, even before covid, we had 10,000 on this people on a given day. it seems like when people go to welfare, they will set them up in these seedy hotels that are flea bitten with bedbugs and all kinds of problems, and the state will pay all kinds of money to put these people in these
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hotels. i am proposing that there should be a new program. if you say low income housing, that always gets done a bad name. host: go ahead and respond before we run out of time. guest: vast majority of emergency rental funds have been paid directly to landlords. there were exemptions that allow payments to be paid for renters if landlords refused to participate. the default was always to make payments directly to landlords. to the broader point about affordable housing and the lack of affordable housing, that is a serious and pervasive issue across the country. we see reports he or after year that the number of people who are rent burdened in this country, meaning that they spend more than 30% of their income on housing, we are talking about half of renters in the country who meet that threshold. for lower income households, the vast majority spent up to 50% of their income on rental housing.
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host: well, we would like to thank peter hepburn, an assistant professor of sociology at records university newark and a senior fellow at princeton university's eviction lab for being with us and talking us through the eviction rices and covid-19. peter, thank you so much for your time. guest: thanks for having me on. host: coming up, more of your calls and comments as we move to our open form segment, where you get to talk about the most important political topic on your minds this morning. after that we will talk to conservative political commentator, michael knowles, from the daily wire. stick with us. we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv, every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors
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discussing their latest nonfiction books. at 9:00 p.m. eastern, seeking educational excellence, charles love discusses his book. and at 10:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards, law professors discuss their book, the original meaning of the 14th amendment about the post-civil war change to the constitution, interviewed by a yale law professor. watch tv and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org. >> c-span shop.org is c-span's online store browse our latest products, apparel, books, home to court, and assessor's. there is something for every -- and assessor rees. -- and assessories.
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there is something for every fan. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are bad for our open form segment, where you can call in and talk about what you think is the most important political topic of the day. we will open our regular lines, democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. and you can always text to (202) 748-8003. let's start with gary who is calling from cherry valley, massachusetts, on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would like to go back to the eviction moratorium issue. the government advised people
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not to pay their rent on their mortgages, and i just want to understand, no one has explained the rationale behind that when you are getting enhanced unemployment, child tax credits. you are taking more money to sit home and not go to work, why would you not be able to pay rent? host: when did the government tell anyone not to pay their rent on their apartment? caller: they advised that right from the start of the pandemic. host: the federal government -- i should ask which government you are talking about. i'm pretty sure the government didn't say to anyone do not pay your rent. caller: i guess you are implying don't pay your rent when you are saying you can't be evicted. there is an application there. host: ok, all right. let's go to kathy calling from maryland on the republican line.
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kathy, good morning. caller: warm. thanks -- good morning. thanks for taking my call. the most important issue is the hearing of yesterday to the supreme court on the mandates at the workplace. i hope and pray that the supreme court rejects the mandates. i have worked this entire time, every single day throughout this pandemic, and i don't think it's fair to mandate anyone to get a shot in their arm. host: kathy, would it make a difference to you if the corporation or business mandated the vaccine rather than the federal government? caller: yes, it would, because i have been very careful. i wear my mask wherever i go.
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we wear it at our job. our job has been excellent in providing sanitizer, and they wipe everything down every day. everyone is very careful, and i work for a huge company with a lot of people, and we have been very, very good about not spreading covid. we still worked every day. i work in a huge warehouse, so i don't believe that the government should make us get a shot. host: all right. let's go to rob who is calling from phoenix, arizona, on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. thank you for taking my call. i would like to say something about something that is taking a larger view on what has been happening over the past few years with this rebellion and division in the country, and
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that is that i have noticed our society is kind of putting a mindnumbing atmosphere into the public with the media. if i turn on the cable television, which we pay a lot of money for, there is just a real absence of human programs and things that occupy people's minds. if i drive in the car and listen to the radio, i noticed 30 years ago that the classic rock stations had just been taken over and complete repetitiveness of music that just stopped everything. so i just think that we have to look at a larger view of what has happened over the longer
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term, how are our -- how our popularity has been numbed. i just wanted to bring out from my observation. it really needs somebody to pay attention to these things. host: let's go to john, who is calling from massachusetts on the independent line. john, good morning. caller: i would just like to find out why there is such pushback against anybody who is a republican or pushback but never any questions for the liberals or democrats when they start saying all sorts of crazy thing about donald trump and what he has done. host: ok. let's go to james, who is calling from central florida on the democrat line. james, good morning.
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caller: i could go over everything, but we will talk about being vaccinated. i am and my wife is from the very beginning. this last summer, my wife did get covid and she has had some underlying health, asthma. she came down with a fever but was moderate, where i could take care of her at home. i did not catch it at all, and i did not where my mask, either. however, i believe the vaccine did do exactly what it is supposed to do. it prevented her from being put in the hospital. she is 61 years old and i am 67 years old, and i hope they do mandate it, the vaccine, because
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it protects everybody. and this will really stop this nightmare for the last two years. host: one of the things i want to bring up during this segment is that the funeral for former senate majority leader harry reid will be -- former president barack obama will deliver the eulogy for a majority leader harry reid. according to a story in the nevada independent and i will bring you a little of the story. former president barack obama will deliver the eulogy for harry reid, the family confirmed wednesday. other speakers will include president joe biden, nancy pelosi, and chuck schumer. reid family members are also expected to speak as well as
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elder russell ballard, president of the quorum of 12 apostles of the jesus christ of latter-day saints. two of reid's former artists will perform as well. harry reid is lying in state in the rotunda of the u.s. capitol on wednesday. coverage of the saturday funeral will begin at 2:00 p.m. on our homepage at c-span.org and on our app. highlights of the funeral will air on c-span at 8:00 p.m. on saturday night. if you want to see it, you can turn to c-span or go to our app, c-span now, to see the funeral for former senate majority leader harry reid. let's go back to our phone lines and let's talk to donna, who is calling from orlando, florida, on the democrat line.
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donna, good morning. caller: good morning read thank -- good morning, and thank you for c-span. my concern on my mind this morning is the disinformation problem that we have in this country. since the former president him on the scene, i have had breaks and breaches with friends and family because we get our news and our information from different sources, and we seem to be locked in. i would love to see what other colors have to say about how we could possibly find a solution to this problem, because it just seems to be deadlocked, gridlock, with the division in the country. so that is all i have to say, and thank you for c-span. i wish everyone would watch. host: yesterday in colorado, president biden toured the area
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damaged by the fire and will meet with some families impacted. here is some of what he said about the situation during a news conference on yesterday. [video clip] pres. biden: working closely with government to ensure colorado has every single resource available to help keep people safe. i want to think the governor and his team, and i mean this sincerely, and the congressional delegation for their leadership. members of the delegation rode out with me and i would say i am proud. you're laughing, mary, but i don't think you want me. when i come, 20 cars come with me and i don't think you needed. [laughter] all kidding aside, we cannot
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thank them enough. their commitment to you a strong, deep, and real. the situation is a blinking code red for our nation because a combination of extreme drought, the driest period from june to december ever recorded, ever recorded. unusually high winds, no snow on the ground, created a tinderbox, a literal tinderbox. even though it was in your backyard, you could feel the ripple effects of what happened. think about when the grizzly creek fire hit colorado in 2020, helping trigger the massive mudslide and massive mudslide that washed out an entire section of i-70. we cannot ignore the reality. that these fires are being supercharged.
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there being supercharged by changing the weather. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to jane calling from stafford, virginia on the republican lines. good morning. sorry, james. there we go. good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: yes we can. go ahead, james. caller: i basically wanted to talk about the vaccine mandate. i do not think there should be one, and i'm not republican. i am a middle-of-the-road kind of guy. i am definitely independent but right-leaning. so i kind of go back and forth on what i think is the right position when it comes to democrat and republican. i am probably on i guess the republican side of the mask mandate. i do not have a problem with the
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masks so much but i do not think anybody should be able to tell us that we have to have a vaccine. the flu is a very dangerous virus. it is not going anywhere. many people die from it every single year, but there is no mandate for the flu virus. there should not be a mandate for this, because this flu -- excuse me, this pandemic has dealt with people differently across every single region there is. different people deal with it and live with it or die with it or whatever in different ways. the majority of people who are dying have underlying issues and therefore i think mandating this just makes it a hotspot of contention between the democrats and republicans that are not supposed to be there. there are two sides that are
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basically supposed to work together whatever and ideas to make the country better. host: let's go to pam calling from clearwater, florida on the republican lines. good morning. caller: yes good morning. i was calling about january 6. are you there? host: yes, go ahead, pam. caller: ok. the media only showed the an hour just violent things over and over, breaking windows. i never saw the peaceful demonstrators interviewed. i know the majority of the people there were demonstrating how the election turned out. why didn't the media ever interview those people. that is what i'm wondering. i never did see an interview of
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someone who was not a violent person. something is wrong there. host: let's go to nick calling from louisiana on the democrat line. nick, good morning. caller: thanks for c-span. i have three things i want to say. wine, when y'all was talking about [indiscernible] we have a pandemic going on here. people sometimes have to double up just to make it. the other thing i want to say is remember the united states is supposed to be one person under god. and we are not doing that this particular time. the pandemic is dividing. all of our children, all of us have been getting vaccines for many years. i'm 58 years old.
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this has been going all the time. how do you get to a point where you see the ongoing pandemic, you should not take a vaccine? i know you have rights, but when it even -- when it affects everybody, you should be able to understand these tools we put in place should be used. i understand your rights, but the right of the majority should be looked at. the other thing i want to say is these things we are doing, the united states [indiscernible] it is going to go on. you can keep going the same route. i'm speaking of the legislation going on in the capitol right now and those two democrats.
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host: let's go to karen calling from florida on the republican lines. karen, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to change the topic right now about college tuition. there's plenty of students that are not able to attend campus. i would like to want to have education paid for, at least two years of college, which is probably about $50,000, and to reimburse students that have graduated from college. $50,000, i think that would help the economy and help them get ahead. host: i know some states offer free community college for their graduating students. does florida do that for its graduating students? caller: no. they have high school they offer two years in high school if you can cope complete -- can
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complete an associates degree in high school, they will give it to you for free. and also the tests you take for the courses, a place to take a test. host: ok. let's go to lawrence calling from jacksonville florida on the democrat line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am under retired military, and there is a big difference in our country. we can blame about the government mandating people getting their shots, but at the same time, we do not complain about people not serving in the military and doing something for this country, right? they want to stand up and scream, whether they are democrats or republican. they want to scream with the government should do.
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my question is, what should you do? thank you. host: the schedule has been set for president joe biden's first state of the union address. i will bring you the story that was published on fox news -- foxnews.com. president union will deliver his first-aid state of the union address march 1 the white house confirmed friday after nancy pelosi sent the president a formal invitation to speak to congress and the american public one year into his term. it will mark the latest any president has delivered a state of the union address. the speech is normally timed for january or occasionally february. the delay is driven by a busy legislative calendar, a winter spike in covid-19 cases from the omicron variant, and the upcoming winter olympics. which ties a broadcast network time.
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the last date of the union address was delivered by then president donald trump on the eve of his acquittal by the senate in his first impeachment trial. so president joe biden will deliver his first state of the union address on march 1, and of course he will be -- of course you will be able to watch here on c-span and on our c-span now app. let's go back to the phone lines and talk to our next caller on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. thank you. i think more people would be into getting the vaccine if companies were liable if their product did not do it it said it would do. it sounds like a lot of people are having a lot of adverse reaction to the shop. why aren't the pharmaceutical companies liable if their product is not what it says it is? host: i think right now all of
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the vaccines are under emergency use orders because of the pandemic. say that again? caller: how long will this emergency last where they are not liable for their product? host: good question. i guess the assumption is that it will last as long as the pandemic. caller: i think everyone would get on board if they were liable for their product like everyone else in the world. it seems that there are issues if they're not liable when there are issues with their product. if they were, i think people would take it so people would get reassurance that it is what it say it is. so i just want them to tell me how long and why it isn't liable? host: let's go to janet on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm talking about the news media, how biased they are. i have subscribed to four
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newspapers that i love to read, and they are so biased. they talk about the charm campaign lying but they never wrote a thing about the biden affairs. so i've canceled three of my newspapers. it was the most wonderful newspaper. host: ro don't know where vine mond, alabama as but i used to work for the birmingham post terrell. what are the other newspapers you are subscribed to? caller: the blunt county newspaper, and i love to read the newspapers but there so biased now with their left-wing dogma. the everett times is the paper you should read. it's wonderful. host: let's go to eric calling
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on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning, america. i would like to talk about the 2020 elections, about the individual that, we had an election and there were thousands of individual names on ballots and different issues regarding the election. there is one person, for some reason, they were cheated out of the names put on ballots across america and all of the different issues, there was just one person that claimed he was cheating. even the media, why do you let this person get away with something so stupid? even the people calling in. out of america, all the names on the ballot, there was one person that is claiming somehow he got cheated. that is ridiculous. even as i listen to people call in, they say we go to the same place we go where our ids from to register to vote.
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we register to vote at the state where we get our ids from. most people i know, since they have left at a high school, the majority of people have not left a 75 mile radius from their homes where they went to heise klein register to vote. most people have been in the same spot for over 50 years in their residence. explain to me, people, if you go to the place where you put your stay id and register to vote, and you want to require people to have an id to vote, that is crazy. host: let's take on one more story before the end of the segment and that is the story from the washington times talking about the supreme court's hearing of the vaccine mandate on friday. with an i on omicron and a surge number of coronavirus cases and hospitalizations, the supreme
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court struggled friday with whether the biden administration cap -- administration kept trying to slow the virus through unprecedented vaccine mandates. the majority schemes skeptical from the occupational safe and healthy administration covering every company with more than 100 employees requiring the demand vaccine compliance or compel weekly testing. "this is something the federal government has never done before, right? mandated vaccine coverage?" john jeter roberts junior challenged the government's lawyers. justices are racing toward a monday deadline for the end limitation of the mandate and must decide on whether to issue a delay or let the case developing course. for any of you interested in hearing what the supreme court justices said, you can hear the arguments and see the arguments by going to c-span.org where you
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can hear a recording of the arguments from the supreme court. let's go back to our phone lines and talk to george calling from whitehall, new york on the independent line. george, good morning. caller: good morning. people keep referring to taking 10 years for the vaccine to be developed. actually, the development and testing and technology has increased so much the time for developing it has been shortened so much so they don't have to do 10 years worth of developing and three years worth of testing. the testing is still going on, but the development -- technology brought that forth. even the lady before was an i.t. but she has a medical degree.
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thank you. host: we would like to thank all of our viewers for those calls during our open form segment. up next, conservative commentator michael knowles, host of the the michael knowles show at the daily buyer will discuss his podcast and news of the day. stick with us. we will be back. . ♪ ♪ >> exploring the people and events that tells the american story on american history tv. scholars discuss the history of the mayflower compact, rules for governance established by the mayflower passengers. things that can be learned from it today. on the presidency, the book the moralist. woodrow wilson and the world he made. it recounts the struggles between woodrow wilson and senate majority leader lodge
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over the 1919 versailles treaty which ended world war i and created the league of nations. watch american history tv every weekend and find a full schedule on your program guide. then watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. ♪ >> can human genes be patented and owned? george contrary stack -- tackles that sentence. sunday, the professor tells a story of the 2013 supreme court chase that challenged biotech company's rights to patent human genes. >> i didn't think the case had a huge chance of success when it was first brought, but as it rolled on year after years through different appeals and machinations, it became increasingly clear there was something important going on here. by the time and got to the
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supreme court, i knew this was going to be a very important landmark case and one that i definitely wanted to tell the story of. >> the author of the genome defense, sunday night on q and a. you can listen to all of our q&a and other podcasts on our c-span now a -- app. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with our spotlight on podcast segment and today we have conservative political commentator michael knowles, the host of the the michael knowles show at the daily wire. he is here today with us to talk about his podcast and take us through the news of the day. good morning. guest: it's wonderful to be with you. thanks for having me. host: first of all, tell us about your podcast. what is it about and where can people find it? guest: i actually have three
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podcasts at the moment. it seems like everybody has a podcast these days so i am doing three of them. i have the michael knowles daily wire, i have a weekly show, then i have a book club, month -- monthly show divorce from politics and we talk about great books people should be reading. the michael knowles show takes on news and politics and culture from a conservative perspective. there are a lot of shows like that. i think what differentiates my show is that i focus on not just owning the libs or the problems of the biden administration or democratic party or leftist movement or generally, it also where i think conservatives have gone wrong. i think a lot of what is presented today as a conservative voice is really more the brit terry and where it it -- libritarian, and what i
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offer is an alternative to that. i will spend a fair bit of time criticizing my fellow conservatives if i believe they're not on the right foot. the book i came out with this past year spends probably most of the time criticizing what i think have and failures among conservatives to offer people a choice rather than echo then the prevailing liberal establishments. that delves into everything, politics, culture, and religion too. though a lot of people want to deny it these days, all political questions ultimately come back to religious and moral principles. so we dig into that as well. host: tell us where people can find your michael knowles show. guest: you can get it at the daily wire, the easiest way to do it. it is the best way to do it if you do not want censorship from
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the big tech platforms. if you want a cheap ad and do not want to subscribe with your while they, you can head over to youtube. you can go to spotify, apple podcast, google play, anywhere you get your podcast you can subscribe for free. that is five days a week and it is broadcast on terrestrial radio. i don't have the list of the stations right now. the shortest way to get it, go to subscribe in your podcast. host: he got into this earlier but described for us what your politics are. you say you'd are taking on -- say you are taking on everybody, conservatives, liberals, independents. describe what you say your politics are. guest: i would say my politics are slightly to the right of genghis khan. before that scares off viewers who are may be democrats or liberals or independent or whatever, i think that when one has a clear review of one's politics, it makes not only for
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a more interesting show but for a much more fruitful discussion about politics. so often i hear from democrats and republicans that it feels we are just trapped in this game where the left has its talking points in the right has its talking points, and you elect democrats and republicans, and somehow the political system never seems to get anywhere. [laughter] there never seems to be any productive conversation or policy to come out of that. i think that is in part because our political system is something of a rigged game where both sides are really helping one another to maintain the status quo. what i try to offer is a view that is i think a little more authentically conservative. it does not share the premises of the dominant liberal establishment, and it tries to avoid what i think far too many conservatives and republicans fall into, which is they end up being nothing more than the court gestures in the kingdom of liberalism. they do nothing more than putting up some meek, mild show
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of opposition that's really merely justifies and legitimizes the dominant liberal regime. two seconds later, they adopt the talking points that there leftist talking opponent told a few years prior. we want to get back to principles, why do we believe what we believe? the men that built our country, what did they believe? what does the history of our country look like? how do we get back to a more flourishing, prosperous, equitable, just country? host:host: your show is based out of -- is not based out of washington. what are the benefits? guest: reduces my heart -- we fled california last year.
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a lot of people are fleeing the state, not just conservative republicans but a lot of people who want to flee the taxes and onerous regulations and perpetual lockdowns. being in nashville i think is a wonderful opportunity because nashville is a blue city. you are surrounded by democratic views and policies, lots of eccentric people of all political stripes. it is in red states where you get strong protections for not just business but for a more normal, traditional way of life, protections against some of the politicians who have upended our way of life, especially over the past two years. and you are close to washington. i fly into d.c. frequently. it's an hour or hour and a half lie. i host a podcast with senator cruz. we go there, i get my fill of three to four hours of washington, d.c., the madness going out, then i return to real america.
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host: since you brought him up, senator ted cruz has been in the news lately about his interview with tucker carlsen on fox news and january 6. talk to us a little bit about what your perspectives are of the january 6 anniversary in washington, and the controversy that senator cruz seems to have stepped into. guest: i will start with january 6 first before i get to senator cruz. i think that the january 6 celebrations, the commemorations, the national handling is a lot of political theater. i think the democrats are taking what is in the grand scheme of american politics a relatively trivial political event and trying to turn it into the most sacred and somber day in our liberal calendar. not only was january 6 not the worst insurrection in american
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history, it wasn't even the worst insurrection of the year. that title would go to the blm and nt for rides. whatever you think january 6, it is a fact the capitol riot tears did not kill anybody. blm killed dozens of people. the january 6 capital event lasted for couple hours and mostly amounted to a man dancing around the capitol rotunda and a smiley florida man trying to steal nancy pelosi lecture. the blm brides persisted for eight months in city after safety -- city. they attacked temples of our democracy we are now supposed to call them. i do not think it's comparable that the handling over january 6 is disingenuous for people like nancy pelosi and joe biden. so much of what we were told that day that police officers were killed, that aoc was nearly raped and attacked, it was a lie. even the new york times had that.
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that is where we begin on this issue. i think it was really ugly political theater. i think kamala harris comparing it to september 11 is not only absurd but deeply offensive to those of us who died in the terrorist attack. to compare a horned man dancing around the capitol where the rioters did not kill anybody to an attack that killed three dozen americans is disgusting and kamala harris should be ashamed of herself. then you bring on my friend senator cruz. i have not talked to him since he made his comments and there was this whole hullabaloo about it. i'm sure we will be talking about it on our next episode of this podcast. it seems to me what happens is he made a dumb comment, he recognized it was a dumb comment, and he acknowledged it was a dumb comment. that seems to me the sort of thing that people should do when they make a mistake. that seems perfectly right. i know tensions are high on this now and senator cruz said it
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might not survive for some people but i think it is important to look not just for one event or one headline or one twitter trend but to look at someone's career. it is simply the case, and i say this not only because the man is a friend of mine but i say this as a long-standing member of the conservative movement that senator cruz has been one of if not the most stall word conservative republican senator we have gods. he stood up on difficult, important issues, including objecting to the irregularities of the 2020 presidential election when most of his colleagues would not. he has a good record on that. i judge a man by his actions more than his work and i judge a man by patterns and behavior more than one or two events. if a guy will admit he did something wrong, i'm willing to extend grace on that. as a practical matter, even if you do not like the guy, if conservatives are going to throw
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their senators and their leaders underneath the bus every time they say something wrong and admit it, we will not get anything done in the conservative movement. if that is the new standard, you will not be able to effectively organize. i thing more than ever it is urgent for conservatives to close rank, organize, and push back against the liberal establishment. i would recommend as a general rule but specifically this instance a little grace. host: sticking with january 6, there was criticism from former vice president dick cheney of republicans not showing up for the january 6 commemoration inside of the capital. we have a tweet from representative liz cheney where she quotes her father saying "i am deeply disappointed at the failure of many members of my party to recognize the grave nature of the january 6 attack and ongoing threats to our nation."
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that quote comes from former vice president dick cheney. is there a rift happening in the republican over january 6, or are they the outliers, out there by themselves with their appearance and the comment? guest: i think you can look at the numbers. there are only two republicans on the january 6 committee that would be -- committee, and both of whom have been exiled from the party. liz cheney was voted out of the party by her own state. they have no support among conservatives and republicans. feeling news networks they gone our left-wing news networks. the only political activity they seem to undertake these days is defend democrats and attack republicans. i mentioned earlier there is a phenomenon on the american right of the court jester conservatives, people who
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pretend to be republican and maybe they vote the right way. but on crucial matters, they always side with the prevailing liberal establishment. that i think sums up liz cheney 280. i hope she enjoys her msnbc gig she gets after congress. it's understandable dick cheney wants to support his daughter but it is disingenuous. after a year of blm and nt for rides that were less than forget encouraged and some cases funded by top members of the democrat party, including staffers for joe biden and kamala harris herself yelled out rioters, raised money to bail out rioters for blm after an actual insurrection which went on for months and months, where some of the rioters declared autonomous zones within the country. let's not forget the capitol hill autonomies on the said we are separating ourselves from the country.
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it is simply absurd. it is to the point of being clearly disingenuous to say that the riot that took place at the capitol was some grave threat to democracy. it wasn't even close, especially compared to the events that preceded by a few months. host: one lax question getting to our caller, former president trump had planned a news conference for january 6 and then canceled it. was that the right call for him? guest: it was absolutely the right call. this is the important thing. donald trump, whatever you think of the man, he knows a lot about politics and perhaps more about stagecraft. but he recognized was january 6 was a loser for conservatives and republicans. there is no way to get a political win out of focusing on january 6.
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this is why i object to the liberals who lament january 6 as the worst day in american history. but i also object to conservatives who spend all of their time defending the capitol riot. either way, you are granting the liberals premise january 6 is some extraordinarily important day, that the horn had guy dancing around the capital was world significance when it was not. in the grand scheme of history, it does not matter. it may end up matter because the liberals are doing everything they can to enshrine that day in myth, so they are inventing certain details about the day such as the idea officer brian sicknick was killed by the rioters, fabricated. they are suggesting members of congress were almost raped, made up. they are suggesting the government nearly fell, not even close. the rioters could declared a new government and they did not. they took some photos and went
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to prison in many cases are went home. the left is trying to focus on this, and i think the best strategy for conservatives is ignore it on focus -- and focus on events that matter to american history. trump i -- trunk on that right and i think it was wise to cancel oppressor. host: let's let our viewers take part in the discussion. democrats lines are (202) 748-8000. republicans, your lines are (202) 748-8001. independents, you can call (202) 748-8002. keep in mind, you can text us at (202) 748-8003. we are always reading on social media, on twitter @cspanwj and on facebook, facebook.com/cspan. let's start with james calling from aberdeen, south dakota on the republican line. james, good morning. caller: how are you doing? thanks for having me.
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i will only had one question for him. can you define what the difference is between the constitutional republican democracy? that's all i have to say. guest: i can, but we might be here all day because while there is a distinction to be had, it is a little confusing. the founding fathers made a point, especially in the federalist papers come on distinguishing between a republican democracy. the confusing is the ancient examples they cite. it is not exactly a neat distinction. the way our government is supposed to work is that we the people elect our representatives and the states have their own representatives, or they use to before the 17th amendment, and they go to washington, d.c. and participate in the federal government. there is a difference between
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the federal government, state government, and local government, separation of powers between the legislature, executive, and judiciary. there are different rights for each. a direct democracy would be where all the people go in and vote on every issue. the way our government is increasingly run is closer to an oligarchy where a ruling class that finds itself in government but also private business but also in nonprofits but also in the media, they all kind of work together to say nothing of the unaccountable bureaucrats that work in the administrative state. they work together but you don't see it in the constitution but that is the way the government is run. this leads to something the ancients recognized as the cycle of regimes. such that one regime will decay and turn into another and they will transform over time. so you can see democracy decay into mob rule, sort of like
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democracy but really bad version of it. you can see democracy decay into oligarchy. there is a good version of oligarchy which is aristocracy. there have been fine aristocracies in history and there have been find monarchies. there is a bad version of that which is a tear and. regimes change over time and they decay with the ability of the people to govern themselves or ability of the people to preserve their way of life. when john adams says our constitution is built for morally religious people, it is not fit to the governments of any kind of other people. he is not being a bible thumper or superstitious, far from it. he is stating a fact about how our government is set up. it is inevitable our form of government is going to change. i think looking around us, most of us would have to agree it has not changed for the better. host: in what ways do you see our government has changed in
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the last 20, 50, 100, 250 years? guest: i will give you an even nearer description, i will describe the way our government has changed in the past two years. today, the most powerful politician in america is not joe biden. the most powerful politician is not chuck schumer or nancy pelosi. we all know who it is, it is dr. fauci. he is ailing man who cannot be fired. [laughter] joe biden was asked will you ever -- is there any sort of situation in which she would fire dr. fauci and he said no, dr. fauci is the highest paid member of the federal government. and dr. fauci has been crafting national, frankly international policy, based on his own whims and caprices, many of which contradict her child there -- contradict each other, over the past years. it was set up a long time where the early progressives such as woodrow wilson crafted what
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would become the administrative state. fdr enshrines that. you have unelected technocrats crafting most of our policy. today, congress is not really passing most of our laws. i know we were taught in schoolhouse rock that i'm a bill on capitol hill, but that is not really the way our laws are made. most of the laws that affect our lives are crafted by the unaccountable bureaucrats in selected agents. if you like that or if you hate that and you want to change that, either way, you have got to acknowledge that is the way our government works now. seven presidents have come a long, six of them have gone. dr. fauci remains. it is not just about the man, though he is an important figure, it is about the way our government is structured. host: to be clear, are you saying dr. fauci cannot be fired or he will not be fired? are you saying he is in a position where no one in the government can fire him if they want to? guest: while the only person who
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would fire him would be joe biden and he said he will not. host: so that is little difference between can't three fired and will not be fired. guest: perhaps. i think the reason that joe biden says he won't fire dr. fauci is politically he knows he cannot. donald trump to the same thing. donald trump has no love for dr. fauci or vice versa yet dr. fauci was able to amass an extraordinary amount of power, even what would have been during a hostile administration. i grant your point that theoretically the man could be fired, but in terms of practical politics, kind of what we are talking about, in terms of not just the way the country is supposed to work on paper but the way it works in practice, i do not see any world in which dr. fauci is fired. host: let's go to jail calling from woodward, iowa on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. and have a great day today. my big question is, i resent him
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using the word trivial related to january 6 i don't think if you are talking to brian six nick -- brian sicknick's family would not be using the word trivial. guest: i think i would. caller: and there are injuries including ptsd's for the capitol police officer, that is trivial? guest: i will use your first example because i think it highlights the huge disconnect between americans on this issue of january 6. you said you were talking to the parents of brian sicknick, the officer allegedly killed by the capital rioters. you would not be able to call it trivial. the idea the capital rioters killed officer brian sicknick is a complete live. it was totally made up. even the left-wing newspaper such as the new york times had to admit that. it did not happen. the capital rioters did not kill anybody. there was one person killed in the violence of january 6. her name was ashli babbitt, one
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of the capital rioters, killed by a trigger-happy cop. i don't mean to obscure your motives or many americans who are clutching their pearls and believe the capitol riot was the worst attack in our nations history. it simply was not. you have been fed propaganda that even many of the propagandists have corrected but they run the story brian sicknick was killed by the capital rioters on page one of the newspaper and then they run the retraction on page 1000 so no one sees that. especially if you are only tuned into cnn or msnbc or reading left-wing papers. this is why i would say that. this is why i bring up the comparison of blm. you don't need to look back at the many other attacks on the u.s. capitol. almost all of which have been more significant than the january 6 capital ride. you don't even have to go that far back. you can go back to the blm riots
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when propagandists from the less when cable news outlets were saying that buildings on fire were mostly peaceful protests. last time i checked, when you are firebombing buildings, that is not mostly peaceful. if you compare the numbers, capital riots killed nobody and blm kills dozens. it is quite clear that the blm insurrection, if you want to use that because they were attacking federal buildings, led to far more policy changes and was defended by actual elected democrats. now people who are the vice president and president of the united states. that will not only matter in itself but it will have a much longer-term effect on american history. where is the significance of the january 6 capital ride is only going to matter in the mythology that the left creates about it and already has created about it to justify further incursions into our way of life and liberty erie the clearest example of that would be the democrats in
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washington right now trying to federalize elections, take elections away from states and local governments, have it run directly out of congress. they're using their mythology about january 6 as an excuse. that would be a major overhaul of the way the democracy works. host: i'm going to assume you would disagree with u.s. capitol police and their descriptions of what happened to officer brian sicknick. i will read with u.s. capitol police have said about his death. the u.s. capitol police excepts the finding from the district of columbia's office of the chief medical examiner that officer brian sicknick died of natural causes. this does not change the fact that officer sicknick died in the line of duty courageously defending congress and the capital. the department continues to mourn the loss of our colleague, the attack on our officers including brian was an attack on our democracy. do you disagree with the with that statement? guest: obviously not because the
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u.s. capitol police admitted the medical examiner said he died of natural causes. so we agree on that. furthermore, we agree officer brian sicknick was a good, faithful servant and defended his country and that is a wonderful thing and ought to be applauded. the owning place i would disagree is the notion that the capitol riot was some sort of singular attack on democracy when you've seen far more agrees as attacks from the left, from elected -- not just people in horn has but who are now the vice president and president of the united states, maxine waters saying get up in the face of republicans and go to their homes where their children sleep and push back on them and say you are not welcome here. 2% and that is not an assault -- to pretend that is not an assault on democracy by someone cracking a coors light in the capitol rotunda, that nearly took down the constitution. give me a break. host: let's go to jace calling on the independent line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my
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call. mr. knowles, i listen to you quite often. guest: thank you. caller: i believe you are right on point. when it comes to the january 6 deal, the left loves to preach how bad of a situation it was. i'm 63 years old. i've seen a lot of things happened in this country. january 6 was nowhere near as bad as what is happening in this country. we got a lot more years left in this country to see what really happens. what i believe will be a whole lot worse than when january 6 ever was.
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my question is, what was nancy pelosi doing? what was chuck schumer doing? people who are supposed to be in the top echelons of our government and supposed to be protecting us, what were they doing that did not prevent january 6 from happening? guest: i think you've raised the central question here, which is over the nature of this event. the way the left presents the capitol riot was our government was nearly toppled and lots of people were killed and this was armed violent insurrection or terrorists that went in. as the details of january 6 come out, that was obviously not the case. what you really find is all
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of the political benefits of the capitol riot has gone to the left. it has justified their attempts to take more power, notably through the federal takeover of elections they have been pushing, as hr one, the first priority they took up in the new congress. it has created this idea that anyone to the right of hillary clinton is a terrorist that hates this country and it is whitewashed the blm and anti-for riots that took place for months at a time. i don't want to read the mind of nancy pelosi or chuck schumer but i would imagine as a political matter, they are grateful for the capitol riot, because nobody was killed, other than ashli babbitt killed by a cop. nobody on their side of things was killed. it was over within a few hours. i suspect nancy pelosi got her electorate back and it provided
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the excuse to take a lot more power. as mr. emanuel famously popularized the phrase, never let a crisis go to waste. host: let's call from stephen calling on the republican line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i'm so excited. three things. one, how come topics that have been ignored, and to me that says a lot especially with biden being president, they have held back billions of dollars. a similar situation when you have an impeachment of the president and this topic is done by the wayside. the next topic i think they would talk about -- i wish they would talk about is voter fraud. we have been door-to-door knocking and they found 465 fraudulent votes in manatee
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county. this is just in a few days. there is no reason to do it. we are testing to see how legitimate our voting is. we have discovered that there are problems. the election is over. trump won hands down but we are still checking our own systems and we are finding out there's a lot of fraud going on. i would like to hear what you have to say and what are we going to do about the propaganda stations. they are not held accountable for their lies and that is the quickest way to have socialism. host: michael before you answer and, stephen, tell us how are you checking voting after the election was over? how did you find this fraud you are talking about? and who was doing this? caller: there are groups that get the registration records and they go door-to-door to find out how many people live there. let's say for example you knocked on the door in a
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community and you have 10 people living in a residence and only one person has ever been there living in 20 years in the property is for sale. how did 10 people vote from that location? that is a brief example. go ahead and ansell, michael. -- and answer, michael. guest: there are few points in there so i will focus first on the voter fraud. in terms of election fraud, we know it happens. i will take you back not just to follow 2020 but to 1948, 1948 lbj is running for a senate seat in texas and he wins the senate seat. how? because he stole it. there were a lot of corrupt election officials any stuffed the ballot box in texas and won this race by something like i think 200 ballots. everyone knew he stole it. lbj had been stealing elections since he was in college. the case made it to the supreme court and the supreme court did not want to deal with deciding a senate race in texas.
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lbj becomes senator. lbj becomes the vice president of the united states, kennedy's killed and he becomes one of the president of the united states and he becomes one of the most transformative presidents. and then later on, his definitive biographer lays out the case an undeniable detail that lbj stole the sea. it didn't matter because lbj had his entire political career. after he had lost an election, fdr told him that he forgot to set on the ballot box. he did a good job of stuffing the ballot box but he forgot to sit on it. this is why we have poll watchers on election day. one day to further erode election integrity is extend electioneering, an election week
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or month, have all sorts of unsupervised ballot drop boxes all over the place, unsolicited widespread mail-in ballots where people who do not request a ballot received one. many of my friends who left california moved to tennessee still receive ballots from california. even friends who requested the ballots not be sent out. even barack obama, six or seven years ago, was describing how these sorts of election measures can erode voter integrity. now we are not even permitted to request people prove they are who they say they are before they cast a vote. you need to show your entire medical history before you can have a beer at a bar but you are not required to prove you are a citizen of the united states before you going cast a vote. that is a big problem. the extent to which that occurred in 2020 is being debated but there were extraordinary irregularities. just in pennsylvania. the state constitution prohibits the use of widespread mail-in ballots. the supreme court of
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pennsylvania overruled that the election was conducted in an obviously unconstitutional way. that is just one issue. the fact the ballots cannot be counted within a day or two but it dragged on for days and days and weeks and weeks, the fact you saw double counting in certain audits. those were big problems that will be debated for a long time to come. are we going to go back in 50 years and decide actually we found a, we proved joe biden didn't win? fine, he will be long gone by then. i think we need to do is focus on what we need to do to ensure election integrity is the law the land. because don't forget, for the democrats now who are claiming republicans want to suppress the vote and they usually attribute some racial motive to this because they call republicans racist every time they blow their nose, let's not forget when someone casts a vote, illegitimately, that suppresses a vote from an eligible voter.
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democrats have been all but open about their desire for an eligible to vote. he saw this in hr one and s1, we are calling the corrupt politicians act, the federal takeover of elections. in that law, they are saying there is no way illegal aliens are going to vote as a result of the selection takeover, but in the same breath, they give immunity to illegal aliens to vote because they will be registered because of the law. it is disingenuous and the left thinks they can win elections like lbj did by stuffing the ballot box. it is incumbent upon us, regardless of what we litigate about 2020, it is more important to focus on how to stop that moving forward. host: you live in tennessee so you know the south as well as i do. how do you differentiate between poll watching and pole intimidation, especially since we know how elections used to happen in the south where minority voters were encouraged
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and threatened not to vote? how do you differentiate between the two? guest: there is election intimidation or voter intimidation that goes on every single year. in some eras american history it is worse but it has happened recently. in the obama administration, you had the new black panther party showing up to paul's with guns strapped to their chest. a clear example of voter intimidation. that is awful. that is why we have systems in this country for campaigns through organized process to send their watches to the post to make sure there is no funny business. one of the big issues in 2020 was there were reports of poll watchers not being permitted to oversee accounting a ballots. ticket lily because the way the election was going to be conducted was changed dramatically in the weeks and months before that election. there were so much chaos and so much confusion, that if you had
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the further problem of poll watchers not being able to see the count happen, you would lose all sorts of ability. this is a problem not just for republicans are people that think trump one but a problem for the whole country because while it is true there are a good number of republicans that do not believe the results of the 2020 election, there is a higher portion of democrats who do not believe the 26 a let -- 26 election. there are still people that don't accept the bush race. there was one asked if bush lost in 2000 and he refused to answer the question in the affirmative. so i like to spare the sanctimony that we are hearing from people like nancy pelosi and joe biden. furthermore, i want people to recognize that not having faith in our elections as a bipartisan issue right now. the only way the country is
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going to improve and we will be able to stabilize this government is if both sides can agree to some very basic election integrity measures. otherwise, no matter who wins the election, the problem of political discord and illegitimacy will only get worse. host: let's talk to larry calling from 29 palms, california on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. i served 20 years in the united states marine corps. january 6 will go down in history. the problem was we sign on tv. i know you're not a patriotic person. you are like tron, talk out both sides of your mouth, never served this country. he bowed down to russia, the congressman, the senators, the governors, they all want their seats on the same ballots. trump made a full -- guest: can i ask a question? how did trump bow down to russia? caller: yeah, he bowed down to
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russia. guest: how? caller: used january 6 to make russia be happy. guest: how would january 6 make russia be happy? caller: right people are not from america. here from europe, asia, england. guest: white people are not from america? what? host: he hung up, so go ahead and respond. guest: those the most interesting call i have had in a long time. thank you for your service though. this is something really difficult because the caller calls and says i served in the marine corps, which is a wonderful thing, thanks for doing that. but then to use that and to say as a result half of this country is traitorous and treasonous, that is a really ugly thing. we are not going to be able to have a good, flourishing, stable country of one half thinks the
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other side is a bunch of traitors and terrorist to want to be expelled to the outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth. it is not a good way to start a political dialogue. host: one thing you talk about on your show is getting covid. how are you? guest: i recovered, thankfully. it is not as bad as some people said it would be but i do not want to downplay it. it is a deeply upsetting virus. my family got it. my baby got it worse than any of us. he was fine and did not have to go to the doctor but it was unpleasant. that said, for us, we are relatively young, healthy people , it was on the order of a moderate to severe cold or flu, so the question becomes should
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we lock down the whole country to prevent people from getting something with those symptoms? there are horrible, negative effects you see in terms of drug overdose, depression, other public health issues. for a lot of americans getting covid now, who have gotten covid in the past, they are recognizing that maybe the response does not fit the sickness itself, but i'm glad to say we are recovered and feeling good. host: you answered my question without me even having to ask it. we have to stop there. we would like to thank michael knoll, the host of the michael knoll show, editor of the daily wire, for being here. guest: my pleasure. thank you. host: we would like to thank our viewers and callers for another great edition of washington journal. wash your hands and stay safe.

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