tv Intelligence Leaders Testify on Mission and Priorities CSPAN March 25, 2022 7:24pm-8:02pm EDT
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>> -- members may use the chat feature came with staff or for support issues. i have designated a staff member to mute unnecessary members microphones and cancel any background noise that may disrupt proceedings. thank you. i would like to welcome today's witnesses, under the secretary of intelligent security. the director of the national security agency, chief of the central security -- and lieutenant general scott, director of the defense intelligence agency. i'm pleased to see each of you. this hearing takes place during a perilous time. russia's invasion of ukraine shows how crucial it is to maintain strong democratic alliances. it reinforces the work being
done by the enterprise from exposing information, to working with allies and partners to share critical intelligence and ensuring our intelligence apparatus is agile so we can response to the needs of each combat commander. russia's assault on ukraine's sovereignty threatens the world order and present -- presents a dangerous level of aggression. as it unfolds, i'm concerned about china's posture toward taiwan, are on -- iran and its proxies and north korea's ballistic missiles. we faced extremist groups who would given the opportunity to strike is on our homeland. we can only effectively combat huge challenges with close collaboration allies and partners, especially intelligence partnerships. i'm with the dutch the subcommittee to make sure that we are better postured to provide -- to support this
information and influence operations. in the interest of time, i asked the witnesses to keep opening remarks brief so we will have more time for the closed session. that, i will tarnish it over to ranking member kelly for any opening remarks. >> in the interest of brevity, we to the general, secretary, thank you for being here and for what you do for america every day. this is one of the most important posture hearings i think that we have. i won't have a lot to say in the open session. i think the things we need to say are not for political purposes. i look forward to the closed session where you can tell us what you need to do the things america needs to do, thank you
and all the men and women who serve under you for their service. >> thank you, ranking never kelly. we will hear from our witnesses and move to questions, following one round we will reconvene for a classified session which will take place in rehberg 22-12. i recognize miserable tree -- mister moultrie. >> thank you. in addressing the threats facing the united states, its allies and partners, the department of defense's intelligence and security officials -- professionals work every day to address current and future threats facing our nation. on their behalf, i wish to thank the members of the subcommittee for their support and partnership. i'm joined in testimony today by these generals. they will provide you a more comprehensive picture of how we support us and characterize challenges we face. the department of defense trusts
the intelligence community to respond to the threats we hear about. gen. berrier: i do have a statement, i can for grow the statement if you would like to get to questions. >> we will skip to questions. >> i will forgo my statement as well. >> i appreciate it. all right. thank you. i'm interested in hearing about progress made for the reforms to support a combat commanders need for intelligence. given the situation in ukraine, i will ask two sets of questions. could you share specific examples of intelligence sharing to combat disinformation, such as exposing russians false flags and intelligence sharing they could save lives? second, i would like to learn more about
our intelligence sharing of ukraine. are we able to share it with ukrainians and are they able to commune kate with the u.s., and what do those channels look like? you can answer is much as possible now and we can also go into greater detail in the classified session. sec. moultrie: i would prefer to answer questions on the intelligence we are sharing in terms of false flag and what we are doing in terms of intelligence and close session. i would say the intelligence we are sharing and the work we are doing in support of the ukrainian government is making a difference. it is accurate, timely and actionable. so we think that we are supporting them in such a way that they are pleased with what we are providing and i will forgo the rest of my comments until we get into closed sessions. >> chairman, if i might, i will
defer specifics to close session, but when we consider what the intelligence community writ large and our defense intelligence establishment has been able to do here, our ability to share intelligence is for a number of different consumers. first, sharing of intelligence to build a coalition. second leg, the sharing of intelligence to ensure that we shine a light on disinformation operations, which you referred to before. the third piece is how do we share information that is relevant, actionable, able to be utilized by the ukrainians? all three of those areas, i have never seen a better and the 35 years i've spent in uniform. >> i would say where we are at is revolutionary in terms of what we have been able to do. i can provide great detail in terms of the how and what we are sharing in the closed session. chair gallego: thank you. how are you ensuring efforts are synchronized and gourmet to
avoid get data purchases? >> the open source intelligence center assigned to dia is working hard with the intelligence community. as you probably know, the cia is the community manager for open source, dia has been designated as the defense intelligence enterprise open source functional manager. you're taking the role on that now and we are devising our way through how we organize ourselves for the sharing of the information, the tools we will use, the training and the tradecraft, and a big part of this is making sure that across the defense intelligence enterprise we are not getting ripped off for data we are purchasing and putting a structure in place to allow us to understand what the data is, catalogue it and be able to understand it. >> as you know, the nda requires certain conditions be prior to this.
there seems to be a natural partnership between organizations, i want your view on the future of the dual hot relationship. is it -- pat relationship. it is realistic to expect each to operate independent a question mark >> i'm approaching four years in the job and i will reflect on my experience is. this is a policy decision made by others, my best military advice as it was when i first came into the job and after three plus years and it is the fact that through elections, robbins with ron, ransomware iran -- iran, ukraine, being able to focus efforts from the national security agency and u.s. cyber command on difficult problems, influence, ransomware, strategic repetition in one domain in cyberspace, we both operate their and being able to have action, unity effort and agility is what this has allowed me to do over the past three
less years. >> sounds like a good endorsement for me. ranking never kelly? >> chairman, i asked this question, but it's more of a comment as you answer the question. but open source is really important. sometimes we don't want to disclose how we know stuff and if it is open-source source we don't have to. and a lot of times if it comes from the u.s. government, people tend to doubt it. if it is from a source other than the u.s. government, it adds more credibility. there are a lot of open source -- i have talked to several of those. what i would like for you guys to do is rather than contracting with a company to do certain things, can we not by what we need when we need it, i.e. are there satellite companies that could tell us how many bushels of corn are in ukraine? can they tell us the refugee flow, can we do other things that we don't
have to do, especially with some of the false flag information russia has been putting out, can we go to those and say we want to buy this information and have them put it out? >> that is a great question. as we try to organize ourselves within the defense intelligence enterprise inside of this, those are the questions we need to ask ourselves and pursue those strategies to be smarter, better and faster. >> i say open source, a lot of times it adds credibility. i guess the second question is, i would've said in my opening comments, what extent are we able to connect -- collect meaningful intelligence over the horizon in afghanistan and also are there open-source things that can help us with that information that we can also use? >> ranking member, i would prefer to discuss the over the horizon should into closed session and there are open-source is that we can use to help us in afghanistan.
>> the final question, a general sense, we will discuss more in the closed hearing, but overall for the public to see that -- they have to know we are going to closed session to talk about the important things. overall, what does our budget look like, what is your request going to look like and what things in a general sense can you talk about here? >> ranking member kelly, our budget is going to reflect the president's priorities. our focus on how we are focusing the enterprises on integrated deterrence. we are still campaigning against our challenge, china. we are trying to build what i will call it if i a decisive information advantage to ensure that our policymakers and war fighters have the information they need to do the mission required of them everyday. folks i would add to that, for us at the national security agency, as we look at a budget
that is going to be able to support us in competition and in crisis, conflict, because as a global power, we will be in many phases of this drought the next many years -- many years to come. >> i yield back. >> scott is next. >> i'm sorry. i assumed it would go back to a democrat. i do want to tell you i personally believe the intelligence back in december was the best collection job that i have seen in my 10 years in congress regard to russia's plans for the ukraine. and i do think and i know it was a big decision to declassify and share it with the world, i do think that the world has benefited from the declassify and sharing of information so
that they were prepared for at least -- at least they expected it. you be if we were not prepared for it. under the secretary, we have asked our different commanders for various areas of response ability to look at, what a 5% and 10% production -- reduction means for the applicable stability around the world. i want to point out to you particularly that the ukraine is responsive over putting 50 million metric tons of corn and wheat into the markets. they're the largest supplier of food to the world food program. if you look at what is happening , there is tremendous civil unrest in sri lanka today, which is 4000 miles away from ukraine. i do think the defense intelligence agency needs to do an analysis of what a 5% or 10% duction of the global food
supply looks like in the different areas of responsibility. russia is saying they are not going to export. they're the second largest exporter of wheat in the world if i'm not mistaken behind ukraine. and you look at the whole blocks e*trade area. the food supply that comes to that area is effectively shut down. belarus and russia are the number two and number three suppliers of a fertilizer for the world's crops. i kind of feel like putin has started world war iii with regard to the global food supply and for geopolitical unrest that is going to come from that, and certainly much respect for president zelenskyy and the ukrainian people for the fight there putting up and i hope they keep fighting and we keep giving them all of the intel a need and the weapons they need for the fight. but i'm worried about what this means for other areas of the world as well.
so we will be looking for that information as time pushes forward, but i do think the u.n. is expecting tremendous political instability because of the food supply. with that, i will save the remainder of my questions for closed door. i look forward to seeing that. >> thank you. resident bacon. >> i had questions about the cost of sharing this intelligence but i will wait until the closed thing. but i have a question for general sony -- for the general. i know we have things like -- is there a bigger role for cyber command and nsa to help in the private sector? we had jbs attacked, the colonial pipeline attacked, and these folks can go up against the intelligence services of russia.
they need your expertise. >> in terms of our role at the national security agency, you are well aware that one of our two missions is cybersecurity. our focus has been outside the united states foreign intelligence, and being able to bring the insights of what cyber adversaries are doing outside of our country to inform what is going on inside of our country, we have a responsibility as part of the defense industrial base to ensure the protection of that. 16 different sectors in critical info structure, that is the one dod is focused on. russ in general, the secret sauce that we bring at nasa is clearly what our adversaries are doing outside of the country and being able to share it more broadly with the interagency and the private sector. >> and i don't to 33 seconds? >> no. >> something happened. i like to bring up another thing that was a big issue when i got
elected in 2003 and there was a push to make two different four-star headquarters. they opposed it because being an old air force guy, i know how important nsa is to the cyber command missions. they are very much integrated. if you had 24-star is going different directions, you have a dysfunctional situation. so is that off the table? i like the way it is set up now. >> commerce meant, that is a discussion on the policy level that does come up at times and i know that i have answered questions before a number of committees on that. but that is still something that is being considered. >> for what it's worth i will pose it and i hope -- we need unified direction and i think your leadership of both organizations provided that unified direction. so i don't know if we have asked him that question, but do you have any comments? sec. moultrie: from a department of defense perspective, we
recognize the value of the dual had role that the general has played for the past four years and the role of cyber command and nsa over the last 12 years. plus, i believe that the dual hat will be looked at again just by this administration, just to ensure that we understand what the value added is, but also what the impacts are. so that discussion is still ongoing with the department today. we understand that there is sentiment on both sides to relate not do any harm, but i believe it will be looked at. i think it will be an objective look and will make sure we briefing out to you. >> let me elaborate more. the cyber teams, the core of them are nsa folks. if you have 24 stars with different directions, -- if you have four stars with different directions, i don't see how you separate them.
when i -- one last question is for both generals. i flew traditional isr aircraft. all kinds of collection capabilities, penetrating isr, we know we do not penetrate china's airspace or russia's airspace. so we still need some of that traditional isr. that is the bulk of our collection. my question is, are we keeping the right balance between the traditional isr and penetrating, and you see a need to change this? >> with my army had on, there is a balance -- hats on, there's a balance between isr in competition and in conflict. as we are seeing this play out inside ukraine, we would never
fly those platforms into an envelope they could get shot down or engaged. but certainly in competition, i think there is value for isr platforms that can collect on periphery and analyze and process that information. >> i would officer -- offer as the manager for that intelligence, we need a variety of platforms, whether from space, airborne, terrestrial. all of these stitched together for an important look on what our adversaries are doing in many parts of the world. i know the chief of staff at the air force was looking at a number of platforms, but from my perspective, having a wide variety of platforms is important for us to do have -- for us to have air ration -- our mission. >> still have a minute left. >> preserved from your last one. >> thank you.
>> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you to the witnesses for being here with us. one of the areas i have been particularly interested in during my time in congress deepfakes. we see them used domestically and by our adversaries overseas. i requested -- i secured some report language in the fy 20 and tell authorization act on just getting a sense of power -- how our adversaries have weaponized these as a tool to shape the environment. even recently, i saw that the russians produced a deepfake video of president zelenskyy ordering ukrainians to stop fighting and that was broadcast on ukrainian television yesterday. so we are seeing the use of it and deployment of it quite broadly. my question for you, how have
you seen the time involved, where it is headed, and do you feel like our intelligence community is prepared and how are you preparing. craig's dusty like >> we are looking at the growth of influence by adversaries. deepfakes are the ability to use video that is intended to send a message and it is one of the ways. at the national security agency we are working closely with our research directorate to understand technology, the key pieces of what we can determine that is real and what is fake. the other point is to ranking number kelly's point, we are partnering closely with the private sector that has done some work we have been able to have discussions with them on that.
so this is an area that we continue to watch carefully, act rapidly and i think we will have a number of different areas probably can discuss in closed sessions as well. >> thank you, general. i'm a polyglot myself and when i was in the private sector i often read open-source information in languages to get a full sense of what is going on and get the context of what is going on any country or conflict. i was wondering, foreign language skills are clearly a tool that is important to the defense intelligence community. and it is going to be increasingly harder, especially
as we look at high-power competition, so we are not just talking about mandarin but also to garlic -- -- title log -- tag alog, indonesian. it will help understand adversaries. i was wondering, do you consider the defense intelligence enterprise and existing foreleg which give abilities to be sufficient for today's competition, and if not, what are some areas in which we need to invest more, how do we get more analysts and operators who are proficient in foreign language? >> in terms of linkages, it is one of the more important things that we do. i will talk more about it or would like to talk more about it in closed sessions. we look at the capabilities that we talk about here, regardless of the domain we are talking about, whether it be space, browned, isr or cyber, hourly which capabilities are essential.
so we actually are looking at it and as he said, the variously which is, the competition line which is, whether it be mandarin, russian or other leg which is, those link witches are all important to us. there are some things we are doing that are underway right now to help us to not only gauge what we will need today but what we will need for the future. i would like to talk about that in more depth in closed session. >> thank you and i yelled back. >> thank you mr. chair. maybe this can be answered in the session, this question. i understand the sensitivity around all of the other things. the last, secretary moultrie, your office please a critical role in the defense intelligence enterprise. i understand the growth in your office in recent years.
-- can you dismiss what is being that the gao identified to provide more active and effective oversight of the defense intelligence overflight -- ? >> yes. we have decided we need to move aggressively. we are looking at the roles, responsibilities and functions of our organization, ensuring that we understand clearly what those components are. then we are trying to match what our people are actually doing to the roles that they should be doing to ensure that they are doing what we need to do to measure what is occurring within the defense intelligence and security. we need to make sure we have metrics to see if we are adding
value in terms of oversight and governance, and lastly, for the people piece of this, ensuring we have the right skill level, right backgrounds and focus on so that we are doing, we are being assisted in this by some independent analysis being done by others, independent analysis coming out of princeton and we hope to have something back to you and this committee and follow -- in full by the fall. >> thanks. related to the questions about the kind of folks that you need, you mentioned language and maybe you can answer in closed sessions. but in terms of subject matter and certain expertise maybe on the technical side, what kind of work do you need to do to recruit folks into that part of the enterprise? >> that skill sets that our
individuals need on the leg and analytics side run the gamut from being able to understand military operations, economic issues, diplomatic issues. you can imagine everything that we talk about, whether it be in our government, how we are moving economically, how we are looking at research, you have to understand that in some hundred plus leg which is around the world. we have to understand it to the extent that our adversaries may talk about it. it's a daunting challenge and finding those skills is something to compete for. that's a big week our focus on. it is a top priority so we are working that jointly. >> thankfully -- thank you. finally, for general, i've been
tracking some of that -- cyber warfare, arrests and so on. maybe this is an answer for the next session, but since it has been reorganized, we have stood up over the last several hours, but more traction over the last couple of years. whether or not you have seen an increased sophistication as opposed to increase investment from the pla. >> as you can imagine, we track this carefully and closely. i would like to take this up in closed session to talk about scope, scale, sophistication and what we are seeing. i think it probably can answer your question more fully. >> thank you, i yelled back. >> thank you. >> thank you for being here. pivoting on telling which is, can you explain what role the defense language institute plays in some of this training you talked about please?
>> as a graduate 40 plus years ago, and my wife is also a graduate, both emotionally which i might add, it plays a critical role. so we see it more so today than we ever have. when you look at what is going on in the ukraine, having those individuals, one of the challenges we appear to have is focusing on the problem of today and not the problem we might have tomorrow. so the defense language institute foreign-language center has played a key role. and as a place i have tried to visit every year. i plan to go there again this year. they are that training ground for defense intelligence and security, where we get the nation's best, most trained language and i'm proud to say as a person has gone back there frequently, it is light-years away -- ahead of where it was when i was there. individuals are doing 12 weeks but i was doing and 36.
we want to make sure we are supporting it, we will do that across the enterprise, not just within the intelligence enterprise but personal readiness and both with national security agency, the defense intelligence agencies and others in the department of defense. >> outstanding. and did i mention it's in my congressional district. >> absolutely. >> thank you, i look forward to hope gush posting you. -- hosting you. general, it seems that the information operation subcomponents seem to be fractured across the apparatus and despite the doctrine for operations in the environment, there does not seem to be a jointly recognized idea on what information operations should prioritize. do you believe that establishing this within u.s. cybercom
could help? >> i'm not sure it is a solution built to a sub unified command. and every cyber mission that we do, it is important to be able to communicate a message to an adversary. what i would say is we need more information operations trained personnel that come to our command. that is one of the areas and working very closely with the services. i know my own service and other services have taken is on seriously, i think that is what we have to get to first, let's get more trained information operation specialists, that's integrate them into our teams, and incentive building a separate command, let's make sure we understand that information operations spans an entire spectrum of what we need to do. >> it sounds like you have a good idea. do you have more information on that plan as to what you can do, how you can improve trading are -- training our forces to
jointly operate in this environment? >> i would like to give you specific examples in closed session. i think this will indicate the importance of what we are applying to it and what the services have been providing and what we need more of. >> thank you. >> i yelled back. >> thank you, this concludes the open session. will be moving over to 22-12 for classified session. thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]
>> tonight on c-span, next, five ohio republicans vying for the party's nomination in the 2022 senate race bait in cleveland. -- a debate in cleveland. then, president biden in poland. after that, the chief of staff to ukraine's president talks about the russian invasion, the global response, and what ukraine needs going forward. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, funded by these television companies and
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