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tv   Campaign 2022 Wyoming U.S. House Republican Debate  CSPAN  July 1, 2022 6:28pm-8:02pm EDT

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>> congresswoman liz cheney and four of her republican challengers take part in a debate ahead of the gop primary in the race for wyoming's at large house seat. hosted by wyoming pbs, this is over 90 minutes. >> good evening i am craig blumenstein, you will hear from all five republican candidates seeking the at large seat in the
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u.s. house of representatives. i will introduce the candidates to you. to my immediate left is harriet hagemann, to her left is miss robin belinsky, then representative liz cheney, senator anthony bouchard, colonel denton knapp. we are all very pleased that you are here.
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craig: i hope we can have a thoughtful discussion tonight. i hope we can have a mutual airing abuse without rancor -- mutual airing of views without anchor -- rancor. if the panelists are already, let's begin the debate tonight.
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asking the first question is steve peck. >> last night, and the appearance at the presidential library of ronald reagan, she got a standing ovation there. another circle she has become an outcast. you all are running for wyoming's only seat in the house. what does this emergence of use mean for this race and what does it mean about the state of the republican party in wyoming? ms. hageman: thank you for the question. we are not a democracy, we are a republic. at us and ends extremely important distinction. we are not -- our republic is not in danger because of president trump. he was an excellent president.
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the threat to our republic comes from other sources, including the fact that right now we are seeing we have two different systems of justice. one where you have people like hunter biden or hillary clinton or even joe biden who are not held accountable for the decisions and the bad acts they undertake. we have a situation like in portland where you have rioters attacking the courthouse and federal agents who have billions of dollars of damage being done by rioting and people are not being held accountable. yet it is republicans who are being punished for exercising their first amendment right. i do not believe the republican party is at an impasse where we are splitting. i think the republican party is very united in the fact that the
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current administration is a disaster. we need to retake the house and senate so that we can block his agenda and we need to further the concern of the agenda. ms. belinsky: i did see that last night. i believe we are republic. we have the right to express our disdain of what happened on that day. anyway, the fact of the matter is we have a system of government that is divided come up where we cannot have actual, oh gosh, anyway. where we do not get justice for
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the people who are actually innocent in some of these situations. we have people who have destroyed cities. i used to walk downtown portland , where they were they destroyed everything. those people have gone away unpunished, yet we have people stuck in jail with no due process and that to me is a travesty. as far as the republican party goes, we need to stand firm, yes, but we are divided unfortunately. we need to take care of making sure we have the right representation. >> thank you. representative cheney. rep. cheney: thank you. wonderful as always to be here. these are serious issues. i think absolutely there is no question that what we saw happen on january 6 was clearly an
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attempt to delay the count of the electoral votes. anybody who was there understands the violence that was involved. i am frankly stunned that one of my opponents on the stage who was a member of the wyoming bar, who swore an oath to the constitution, would be in a position where she is suggesting that what happened on january 6 was justified, or that what happened that day that people have the right to ignore the rulings of the court. we are a nation of laws and we are a nation of laws only if we defend our republic. as i made clear last night, we have to put our oath to the constitution above party. the republican party has a long history of embracing historical -- conservative values that i
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believe very strongly in. but we are now embracing a cult of personality and i will not be a part of that. i will always stand for my oath and the truth. mr. bouchard: it is a lot of distraction because we are not talking about the real issues that the people of wyoming care about, like putting fuel in their gas tanks. we are focused on something that happened that people disagree on. certainly my opponent has a view she has stuck to. republicans as a whole are tired of the rhetoric. in 2000 7 -- in 2017, she did not care about repealing obama care. i think i am one of the most unique candidates here because i
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started out as a grassroots activist. the issues that are important to the voters are what is happening to our country right now. we have not heard from congress any talk about stopping the printing presses. -- inflation crisis. both parties spend money like drunken sailors and that is a real problem. we have people who are trying to figure out how to put fuel in their tank so they can get to work. craig: thank you, senator. colonel knapp. col. knapp: i came in because of what i saw happen with the federal government and the fact i can do something.
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we have devolved into a two-party system for the most part. if you are not on those party lines yourself to the site. i've been a republican all my life. i believe in the platform for wyoming. right now, the rule of law has been brought up. we have court interpretation of laws, executive orders issued massively to open our borders, a lot of things on the monetary flow from the world bank, all of those things are executive orders that were signed on the first day of president biden's presidency. the fact that the congress needs
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to take control to ensure that legislation is made and followed. we have to support our police. our election process needs to get better. craig: thank you. ms. hickman, you have an opportunity for rebuttal. ms. hageman: the department of justice, the fbi, the other things that have happened over the last couple of years. we have a committee in congress right now focusing on something that happened 18 months ago. they not focusing on the issues important to the people in wyoming and they are ignoring the corruption that is destroying washington, d.c. and as a result, taken down the rest of the country. craig: the second question will be asked by bob. >> i am hearing many of you
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downplayed the events of january 6. i am hearing from people who have a different concern. why are you not more concerned about those events and that people from the trump administration said his goal was to overturn the election. ms. hageman: because i have watched several hours of video myself and done my own due diligence on this. i believe then this is a distraction from what is actually going on in our country right now. we do not need to be spending this time and money on a situation when we have lawlessness in our country. instead of dealing with that, we are dealing with something that happened a while ago and was a set up from the beginning for the election situation. we the people are stifled.
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to me, this is a waste of time and our resources to go after something. we should be going after the lawlessness first. rep. cheney: there is a real tragedy that is occurring. there are politicians in this country beginning with donald trump who have lied to the american people. people have been betrayed. he consistently has sent the election was stolen when it wasn't. it is absolutely clear the courts determined the outcome, may be entirely republican witnesses from the former attorney general, the former deputy attorney general, from the head of the trump campaign,
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including one individual from new jersey who is now advising one of my opponents in this race, who said that he believes the election was not stolen. that those people who said the election was stolen was not part of team normal. i would be interested to know if my opponent would say the election was stolen? i think she cannot say it was stolen because she is completely beholden to donald trump. we have to be honest, we have to be truthful, elected officials in particular. craig: senator bouchard. mr. bouchard: it is kangaroo court. that is not the job of congress. they have continually made this circus on television.
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if it is a church then -- charge of, then why don't we let law enforcement deal with that? congress has a bone to pick. they do not want president trump and they are pushing back and the american public is sick and tired of it. to say that elections are always square, we know in several states they use covid and the ballot process. what about facebook? facebook using the system to steer people. we know for a fact all the major internets do that. we know things that happen because of covid in several states.
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georgia does not purge the list. a lot of ballots got mailed out. we know this. we know it happened in colorado. ballots got mailed out consistently to people who are not voting. col. knapp: our nation is based on the constitution. i take that very seriously. we should have a peaceful transition of power. it has been that way for over 250 years. i had time in iraq where i had to support their elections. there was lack of transparency and other things that occurred. so people ask if the election
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was stolen, not to give a couple out answer, i think most americans do not know. the problem is we have lost trust and confidence in our election process. we have to change our government and the representatives we send. until we fix that, what we have trust and confidence in our system? we have to take a hard look at that as far as how we do business. one of their things we -- one of the things we do is look at lessons learned. it is important we have audits and investigations to find out what happened and what was the cause of it. the initial suggestions was denied by the speaker of the house. you talk about equal treatment, we have to start there. ms. hageman: i think this is an
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example about how the press and certain people have obsessed over january 6. i have traveled over 30,000 miles through the state of wyoming since i started this. the only time the january 6 situation comes up is one people talk about how unfair the committee is. they are concerned about the fact there is no ability to cross-examine witnesses. they also recognize you might have 15 hours of videotaped depositions and the committee shows two minutes of something. what people are concerned about in terms of the january 6 committee is that it is unfair. and contrary to what our country stands for. i think the press and the people
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associated with that, the democrats who want to deflect attention from the failures of the biden administration, they talk about january 6. but that is not what the people in wyoming are talking about. they are talking about food and gas prices. in addition, we have questions about the 2020 election. time magazine described mark zuckerberg's $500 million as a game changer in terms of what happened in that election. >> in my travels in wyoming, the people that are here in wyoming could care less about the january 6 situation. they are more concerned about their farms and ranches and businesses. being able to put gas in the car, pay rent or mortgages.
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the january 6 has been turned off completely. craig: our next question will be asked by stephen to representative cheney. rep. cheney: thank you for the question. when you look at the challenges our nation is facing, they are serious. the threats we are facing from russia, north korea, china. look at the challenges we face at home. the economic challenges, the policies of the biden administration, which are causing inflation that is higher than we have seen in 40 years. the kind of energy policies and tax policies that are hurting our families. we also have toxicity and of the
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trio -- the trio that is terror in our country apart. we have to elect serious leaders. we have to elect leaders who will not simply say what they think people want to hear. there are some people who have been betrayed, there are people who may actually believe the election was stolen despite in each case in the audits, republican officials from those states made clear the audits and recounts were done. we need to be clear that we will abide by the rulings of the courts. mr. bouchard: if you follow my races, you will see they were pretty brutal.
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you see liberal republicans come after me. then you will see the democrats came after me and spent three times as much money. it was conservative republicans that voted them out for me. -- voted for me. everybody wants to say we have to get along. it is all about bipartisanship. no it is not. the people who elected me wanted me to go do a job. i understand the other side does not like my voting record. but that is not how the system works. the one part we have democracy in is in the election. i go to the wyoming senate to
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represent the people that put me there. that is why i had a tough reelection, but i made it through it. i won. and i do not bunch. -- budge. and the other side does not like it and it is ok. col. knapp: as far as bipartisan cooperation, it is about leadership. the job description is representative. it is about what the voters want. one thing that is missing now is the art of negotiation. especially when you have the separation of two major parties in the same room. who in the room will make sure
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to represent their people by doing negotiation. as the speaker of the house set, let's pass it even though we do not know what is in it. that is what is wrong right now and it drives division between our lawmakers. this idea of rino. i have been a republican. not a republican in name only. the division within our own party is detrimental to what we are trying to do, and that is remove president joe biden's administration. ms. hageman: it has been interesting to me being involved in politics as long as i have.
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typically when people talk about bipartisanship in congress, they are usually talking about when will the republicans cave. i do not see bipartisanship on the democrats side. i see the moving forward of an agenda that has been destructive. that is why we are $30 trillion in debt. that is why we have the disaster on the southern border. it is why we are seen as weak by the international stage and the situation with russia invading ukraine. what i see is for a long time there has been a uni party. but they are not moving forward with the agenda that are of concern to the american people. the last 30 years have been
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terribly destructive to the united states because congressional representatives abdicated the responsibility of actually legislating. they turned it over to bureaucrats and agencies. when i get back there and if i am elected, we are going to have work to rollback 30 years of really bad policies. ms. belinsky: what we actually would need is some term limits for some of these people who are so entrenched. bipartisanship is important only if you have two recognizable parties. in speaking with democrats in my travels, people are willing but they are stuck. if we are going to move forward
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on anything, we need to work together. i am hoping we wouldn't be able to do that. but for now, it is important we try to make away where there does it seem to be one. we need to make sure we can take back our country. it is not happening by what is going on right now. all the distractions, all the things that people are concerned about are being shoved under the carpet. we need to have those addressed immediately. rep. cheney: i think we all would agree the issues we face are big issues and that the way we make sure the solutions are those we believe in is
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republicans is we convince people to vote for republicans. we do that by treating voters with respect and by making sure we stand for principle and we realize at the end of the day we are all americans. >> wyoming's delegation all opposed a huge federal infrastructure project that passed. what are your feelings about federal dollars coming to wyoming? col. knapp: we talked about bipartisanship. the state senate only has two democrats. it is a republican majority. you talk about federal money. the american rescue plan would be one of those. i can talk about that for a
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second. you look at the votes in the wyoming senate and you will see a republican majority voted for that. to be fair, many republicans voted against that in congress. i am one of the guys who said no. because they did not talk about, it is a carrot that has a stick. i am talking about all the ties to the money and what you have to do as a state. that is one of the things sandra day o'connor said in the 90's. we are doing bad. i worked on the inside of the senate. i know where the money comes from. it falls on deaf ears. we need somebody who knows how it works on this side and go on
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that side of the fence and say no there and come back and tell the senate and the house in wyoming why we should be a no. as far as infrastructure -- col. knapp: as far as infrastructure, you have to look at states rights. right now we are going through land management, land swap and other things within the counties in wyoming. we also have nuclear plants that we plan to build with federal money. we also have electric vehicle charging money coming to the state. we have a lot of tourism here. so there are some things federal money will help.
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the federal bill coming out also contains things about illegal immigrants and other things that they snuck in. the more money we print, initially people have more money, and because that federal money that is coming in subsidies, right now farmers are paying double the fuel price to send their products out to market. a cousin of mine had to send his cows down to nebraska for lack of hay here in wyoming. we have to watch states rights. ms. hageman: the infrastructure bill as part of the reason we are seeing the inflationary pressures. the federal government printed a lot of money. the other thing is it is a
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complete misnomer to describe it as an infrastructure bill. the vast rate we have real infrastructure needs in the state of wyoming including our rural water systems. the money they would be able to receive from the spell is infant to small in relation to what they actually need to take care of and maintain the water infrastructure that we need here in wyoming. this is the example of what i talk about when i talk about the unit party and destruction of what washington, d.c. does. they name something and then put all kinds of goodies in there that have to do with the green new deal. a lot of the infrastructure will go, the money will actually go to things that are very destructive of our fossil fuel industries right here in wyoming. in the long run, while the questions seem to presuppose the infrastructure bill would be beneficial to wyoming, in reality, it is going to cost us
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because it is going to go to states and entities and organizations that are absolutely hell-bent on destroying our fossil fuel industry. we need our fossil fuel industry a lot more than we need money from washington, d.c. for things that are not related to infrastructure. ms. belinsky: this is another overreach of the federal government. they can give us money as an enticement, but there again, there is strings attached to everything that we get from the federal government. wyoming is pretty self-sufficient if we are allowed to be self-sufficient by the way, this is not prudence fault and surly not the oil and gas companies faults. this is our current administration and the powers that be that are in power at this moment. if we said no, some of the stuff -- we should be able to say no
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and not have to be beholden to this. i think is a lot more bureaucrats actually said no to some of this, we would be in better shape. rep. cheney: i think all of my opponents on the states have made really important points. the infrastructure bill, and it is not just the infrastructure bill, it is much of the additional spending we have seen in the biden administration is clearly irresponsible, has clearly led to inflation. not just predictable but we actually predicted that it would. when the biden administration first came into office, i spent time talking to them and saying to them, aren't you worried if you inject this much money into the economy this past that you're going to get runaway inflation? the response that we got back was don't worry, it takes so long that the inflation will really be an issue. they were wrong. the inflation is an issue and that is one example among many of a federal government that is
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too big and of a turn toward solutions that are not solutions. we know that the best thing we can do to grow our economy is to help the private sector grow jobs, create policies that let people keep more of what they earn and to ensure that our communities themselves are able to have a kind of economic growth and job creation that we know is possible and we ought to be accomplishing here in wyoming. i think across the board, when you look at the policies this administration has put in place whether environmental or energy policies for the spending, the tax policies, they are bad for the country and bad for wyoming and we have got to be in a position where we can get people to support republican and conservatives who are going to put the right policies. bob: senator bouchard, you have rebuttal time. mr. bouchard: i want to be clear people understand the process
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because if you are in the state legislature, you get to hear your representatives from congress come in and talk and they never really tell you how bad things are that they are voting on. in other words, they don't come in and say this is bad because they don't want to make enemies with the people that are here. bob: thank you. colonel knapp, we now have a question from bob beck. bob: what are two or three concrete solutions that would help fix inflation? col. knapp: inflation was caused by executive orders and policies are past through the house that actually put those out. right now, we have people that do not have jobs because they choose not to. the jobs are out there in the united states. people are making more money by not working and receiving subsidies from the government.
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one of the things with inflation is let the states do what makes them honey and pays their people. i grew up in gillette where 40% of the coal supplies the nation. what we are getting from the government right now is restrictive versus innovative. the co2 capture for call which means zero admissions -- emissions, 90% of minerals from china right now which also takes care of our weapon systems and a lot of our electronic products, it is on committees and i know representative cheney has served on them. the courts have their own interpretation.
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make sure they have checks and balances and they are executed. ms. hageman: i think very clearly, obviously it has to do with energy development. the foundation of what we are dealing with in terms of inflation is that this administration has absolutely the worst energy policy that has ever come out of washington, d.c. when you have jennifer granholm as the person who is supposed to be addressing these things, buttigieg on transportation. the people that joe biden has surrounded himself with no absolutely nothing about monetary policy, nothing about economics and nothing about how our country really works. it is really rather surprising how completely sheltered they have been coming into the kind of power they have and we are all suffering the consequences from it. the fact is, we need to be using our energy resources. we need to be developing energy
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here. under president trump, we had a 4% surplus. in one year, we went to a 4% deficit. we have had an 8% swing in terms of energy. i come from an agriculture family. i've represented farmers and ranchers and irrigation districts and different folks at the aggie industry. we cannot grow food at six dollar gallon diesel. we cannot do it. we are facing serious food shortages because of what this administration has done, because of the inflation related to energy policy. ms. belinsky: right now, it looks like the current administration is encouraging this socialist agenda. where the workers are needed, they are unavailable. as a small business owner myself, i have a hard time finding anybody to help me. there should be incentives to work and the bible says if you
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don't work, you don't eat. we don't need dependent on foreign entities. we have everything we need here in our own state of wyoming. for some of these folks on the biden administration to actually believe that they can buy their bees at the grocery store and it does not come from a ranch is appalling to me. and then also, just the food sources that we see most recently are being destroyed. in the news, you hear plants being destroyed at every part of the country and you were like, they are attacking our food sources. we have need of getting back to business here in wyoming. rep. cheney: i think part of what we have to do and part of what we have to demand is honesty from the administration. when you look at how long the
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administration, the biden administration talked about inflation is transitory, how long they told us it is just transitory, we heard the same thing unfortunately from the chairman of the federal reserve. and they waited so long with the problem got worse and worse as they injected more and more federal dollars, printed more money and have created this problem. i think the combination of the policies, the accommodation of the spending and supply chain issues we are seeing and hearing about all across the state and country, we have to get back to a recognition and understanding that the private sectors, that is the engine of growth in our economy and that means you have to unshackle american energy, unleash american energy. we were energy independent. we have the opportunity to be the arsenal of energy for the whole world. that improves our economy, the world economy and also improves our natural security -- national
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security and we certainly know that here in wyoming that if we are in a position where we are able to develop and produce the fossil fuels, the energy that we have here, use the technology that we have here, the cleanest in the world, we will see economic growth and we will be able to dig ourselves out of this but it was -- it will require significant policy changes. sen. bouchard: this conversation is all on the premise but somehow they don't know what they are doing. they know darn well what they are doing. i will say it is not biden pulling the strings because he has to be led off of stage and i don't think he works very well without a teleprompter. he cannot put a sentence together half the time. but somebody knows. somebody knows exactly what they are doing. this is a planned attack on america. they are not just doing this by accident. i also want to talk about something about the co2. that is something we have consistently voted in the
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wyoming legislature to advance with federal money. it gets voted on here. people are not watching. republicans here are taking the federal money and that is why i have said we need to send somebody back there that knows what is going on here. because if our representatives that go to congress do not talk to the people here about even how their state legislature is taking money, in all fairness, republicans have voted against a lot of this, but nobody comes back here. they just keep telling you they go back to washington and they tell you how they do things in wyoming. that is not really true because in wyoming, they are taking the federal dollars and spending them. col. knapp: this is about accountability of elected officials.
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you look at the station right now and the qualification of those individuals chosen to lead major departments. it is at the point of being ridiculous. as a result, our border is wide open. how do you shut it? we have a president that opened it. where's the other part for the legislative and judicial to shut that border which we are violating u.s. code? mr. blumenshine: candidates, we are about halfway through tonight's debate. we are going to continue on. stephen has the next question. >> what is the danger of wyoming residents losing faith in the election process and what would you do as a representative to restore faith in that process? ms. hageman: i have talked about election integrity quite extensively as i have traveled around the state visiting with literally thousands of people and this is an issue at the forefront of their minds. one of the things i have done is i have sat down with our secretary of state and gone
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through great detail in terms of finding out how our elections are run, who is responsible for what, what kind of machines, what kind of audits are done after the fact. i've educated myself about the election process. i've also encouraged other people to do the same. i've encouraged our citizens to get involved, become election judges, poll watchers. i think that if they know what is going on in their county, they will have more confidence in addition to which understanding better what wyoming law is in terms of our elections. i think it is a matter of getting involved and knowledge. knowledge is definitely power in this kind of circumstance. what i think you see in terms of the election integrity issues are what we see more on the national level that has a lot of people concerned including me. the 2000 meals movie is something i think we have great concern about in terms of the use of the drop boxes. what happened in pennsylvania. the pennsylvania supreme court has concluded that the changes
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in the absentee voting violated their constitution. again, going back to the zuckerberg money, allowing a private individual to capture our county clerks was devastating in our swing states. election integrity comes back to actually enforcing the laws. ms. belinsky: in regards to voter integrity, we do need to remove those ballot boxes. we have them even in this town. we need to get rid of them. there is one vote, one idea and that is the way we should conduct ourselves. if there is a need for an absentee ballot, that needs to be addressed in the beginning. military always need to have a special circumstance. but there should be no reason for us to have this type of fraud in our elections. i understand when i talked to mike lindau, he did say there was a wall portion of voter
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fraud in the state, but that is alarming anyway. when you think about just watching all of the poll workers that were in the 2020 election and what they went through. that should never happen. we need to have our judges there, the people are watching on both sides to keep each other accountable and there should be no reason for this. there was a definite set up for the whole 2020 election. we need to make sure that we have people involved that have integrity, that want to make sure that vote count because all of our votes count. and i tell people, get involved. don't just it. let's get something going. make sure you are accountable as well. rep. cheney: i think election integrity is critical. i believe it voter id laws. i think in wyoming, we have tremendously secure elections. i also know the truth matters.
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the claims that ms. hageman are making are the same claims to which rudy giuliani was disbarred. the same for which sidney powell has had her law license suspended. they are simply not true. it is not true there was sufficient fraud to change the results of that 20 election. the president's own attorney general has said that, deputy attorney general and i mean president trump. president trump's campaign manager said that, white house counsel said that, on family said that. there was not sufficient fraud to overturn the results of the 2020 election. we have to either decide that we are going to abide by the rulings of the court, president trump and his associates brought 61 lawsuits. state and federal court and a number of those lawsuits, the evidence was heard. they were not simply dismissed based on standing.
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the president lost everyone. on december 14 when the electoral college means and votes, that is the end. if she is standing appear claiming the election was stolen or there was fraud sufficient to overturn the election, she ought to say it. otherwise, she needs to stop making claims that are not true and ought to tell the people of wyoming the truth. sen. bouchard: i think that people do have a right to have a concern. what i just heard was there was not enough. that almost sounds like there was some. interesting. that is the problem here. that is the problem, that there is fraud happening. and we know it. that is where we are going to have to fix it. i want to tell the voters of wyoming that i am one of the few people that show up in the county. there are two of us that show up to canvassing and we ask questions. whatever number they catch, people need to go and be part of
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canvassing. the part of election judges -- election judging and be involved. but i will tell you, wyoming is on a good track. we have a gold standard and a lot of things we do. georgia did not get voters out of the system that have been there for 20 years, that has to do a lot with federal laws that have been placed on the books and we don't follow some of the federal law and that is why we don't do that here and we purge the list. that is what keeps our list clean. that said, people need to know that we are on the right track here in wyoming but i will tell you, there is a race coming up and they need to be concerned on that race. i am supporting chuck ray. col. knapp: america demanding the truth and this non-transparency of what is going on in the election system needs fixed and until we do
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that, confidence is lost. the prosecution for violation for folks that vote once, twice, three or four times, those voting under a dead person's name, what is happening are states following their own laws and audits being done correctly. we have to follow rules. as probably the most technologically developed nation in the world, we can't do that. everything from hanging chats to voting machines that are suspected fraud. american people don't trust our system right now and that has got to be fixed. i talked to somebody driving through taco john's drive-through to get my food and said, are you going to vote this year. he says i am 18. i said are you going to vote? he said i don't know right i said you should. he said how you do it. starting with our youth and education, teaching them the
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process that their vote does count and they need to vote. and getting that process done for our high schools and even younger has to take place. mr. blumenshine: you have a chance for about all time. ms. hageman: thank you. one of the things you will notice representative cheney never addresses is a $500 million that zuckerberg invested in capturing county clerks in these swing states. approximately 90% to 95% of that money was used in democrat counties to get out the democrat vote. time magazine believes it change the outcome of the election. i don't have a reason to disbelieve that in light of the information i have seen she also ignores the decisions that have been issued in pennsylvania and wisconsin. mr. blumenshine: thank you very much. we are going to change the format just a little bit and go to what we call a lightning round rate panelists will suggest one word or short phrase questions and you will have 20 seconds to respond. there will be no rebuttal time. it will go quick.
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be on your toes. >> wind river indian reservation. >> arapaho indians. i did get a hold of them. i had some people actually track me down to actually be able to talk with their tribal leaders. rep. cheney: we have an obligation to the tribes on reservation. we have treaty obligations that we have got to ensure that we fulfill. we have got to make sure that we are representing their interests. i'm incredibly honored to represent both the arapaho and the shoshone tribe and the leaders of those tribes and make sure we do everything we can so there is opportunity for economic growth and that we respect the traditions and culture. sen. bouchard: i was going to use one word, americans.
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col. knapp: second-largest reservation in the united states, shoshone reppo. the transfer of some of the younger women, indigenous that are there, they are americans, they are first americans and we ought to honor them as such. we started with 11 tribes and are down to twwo. ms. hageman: we need to ensure we have all of the education opportunities they should have. one of the things we are seeing with the direct flooding across our border is it is affecting our indigenous people as much as everybody else we read about it every day. also addressing the missing women and girls is something we should all be terribly concerned about and make sure we are addressing that. mr. blumenshine: bob beck throws out the next topic. rep. cheney: school safety is
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important. i'm a mother of five children. when i see what happened in places like uvalde, our children need to be able to go to school and we need to know they are going to be safe when they go to school and that is something we need to invest in great sen. bouchard: this is an issue i have talked a lot about. we see one state that has taken the lead in this area and that is utah. utah follows federal law and allow all citizens to carry in their schools that have a concealed carry permit. we don't see these issues in utah but in places that have strong gun free zones. col. knapp: we have to get serious about security. we cannot do it tomorrow because the shooting will happen today. we need to harden our schools and ensure that within law that we have provided safety for our children to go there. after two grandkids. what happens when you walk in
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the front door of their school? ms. hageman: hardening our schools is imperative, providing better security. we can do it and we know how to do and we are failing. we have to get rid of gun free zones. we are creating sitting ducks for the people in those areas and it is wrong and we have to do better. ms. belinsky: we have the safest schools in wyoming. actually, they are glass and checks and balance systems when you walk in the door. it is really hard to get in to actually even see your own child in some instances. we need to actually confront the criminal elements. it is not the guns that are the problem. it is the criminals that are behind us. mr. blumenshine: the next topic from stephen for senator bouchard. >> ukraine. sen. bouchard: that is a good question for me. we need to stop getting involved
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in everything and the rest of the world. ukraine is corrupt. we started it, we got involved, we push them into being against the russian government and that we are not there to help them now? we need to stay out of all this nationbuilding. col. knapp: my last 10 years, i served with nato, u.n., special operations command, unified commands and one thing that is important is we have to do it together. america does not need to be the police force nor do we need to put boots on the ground for everywhere that takes place. this could have been prevented. when you look at the elements of power, diplomacy and trade could have been instituted a lot earlier. ms. hageman: putin would not have invaded ukraine if president trump was still the president. energy security is national security and the radical environmental policies that the western law has been -- western
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world has been pursuing and adopting has made all of us unsafe and all of us dependent on dictators like putin. ms. belinsky: money laundering. i think that is the biggest ticket for ukraine and the biden administration and everyone else involved with the ukraine situation. if america was not as weak as it is right now with the current administration, this would not have been a situation that we would even be dealing with. rep. cheney: it is the frontline in the battle for freedom. we have to ensure vladimir putin does not gain, does not benefit from the fact that he has conducted this war and it is a tremendously positive thing that we now have sweden and finland joining nato. mr. blumenshine: the next lightning round topic from steve for colonel mapp. >> coronavirus vaccine policy.
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col. knapp: coronavirus happened. i think it was made to kill people and made its way over to the united states and it just that. i lost a brother lot to covid in august at the eight years old and the military, we did our shots. when you raise your hands and take the oath, you give up rights unless it is at the -- unethical or immoral or illegal. ms. hageman: i think mr. fouts he is one of the most corrupt individuals in washington dc. i think his vaccine policy has been terrible. i am absolutely opposed to vaccine mandates and filed one of the first lawsuits in the united states challenging such mandates because they violate the law and constitution. i think this administration has been a complete failure when it comes to the vaccine rate ms. belinsky: the coronavirus was engineered to attack what we are susceptible to. it has been a sham and we are to
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oppose any vaccines and any mandated situations that have been forced upon the american people. rep. cheney: everybody should get vaccinated. the federal government does not have a constitutional authority to impose a federal mandate but everybody ought to get vaccinated and do everything we can to protect ourselves from future viruses like this one that clearly was unleased -- unleashed by the government of china. sen. bouchard: fauci had awards for his work inside achaeans. that was the biggest killer, not the virus, but the body's reaction. they knew and they shut down everything that was out there that could stop people from dying and they refused to tell people. it is a travesty. mr. blumenshine: this will be the last lightning round topic thrown out from bob beck.
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>> cryptocurrency. ms. hageman: i actually had the good fortune of visiting a bitcoin mind last week in gillette. i'm definitely learning about that. i think it is something we need to be exploring but we want to keep the federal government out of it. we need to make sure the fcc is not involved. i think this is another important state rights issue. ms. belinsky: i have actually been in so -- in touch with folks about the bitcoin mining out of cheyenne. just being able to utilize it in replacement of gold because there is no way you can haul gold to the grocery store. it is a way for us to actually be able to keep our income and not have it taken. rep. cheney: i think cryptocurrency has some fascinating and important possible uses for the future.
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i think we need to be very careful about the kind of cryptocurrency we are seeing for example the government of china as surveillance currency and people need to understand what is happening with their data when they participate in and use cryptocurrency like the surveillance currency that the chinese government has got. sen. bouchard: i would like the government to stay out of it. i think that is the biggest problem we have right now is there is legislation even moving forward in congress to make our regulations. we really need to talk about honest money. our dollar is not even backed by gold anymore. we need to have more conversations about that. col. knapp: on that point also, it is a bigger picture of what does our world consider currency? at one point, the dollar was it and everything was based on the dollar. backed by gold and then it switched to oil. as a means of measuring wealth for a country.
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we need to take a look at where the cyber money fits in. mr. blumenshine: thank you very much. we are going to resume our normal question and a bottle format here right now and the next question will be for ms. belinsky. ms. belinsky: should parents be allowed to influence what is taught in the classroom? ms. belinsky: by all means, they need to be involved in their kids education. i tell people all the time, as a mom of four, had two twins that were into separate classes. i still made a way to get to the classroom and make sure they were getting taught properly. it is very important that parents are involved in any school situation. does not matter if it is public, private or otherwise and if they are not, that is a sad because these people are entrusted with your kids all day long. you need to know what they are being taught. rep. cheney: i think that the
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family is the fundamental building block of our society and i think that parents rights with respect to the education of their children should never be infringed. i think ultimately at the end of the day, what you line across the dinner table, we learn from your parents, we learned from home are the important lessons and i think one of the things we saw during coronavirus was a lot of kid who were at home who were doing classes online where the parents had more insight suddenly into what was happening and some of our classrooms. i think it is crucially important for parents to be the leading authority with respect to the education of their own children and i think parents ought to have choices. i don't think we should ever be in a situation where it is only people with a certain amount of economic means that can make choices about where the kids go to school. need to value our teachers and make sure our teachers understand how important their job is in society.
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parents need to have the opportunity and ability to decide where their kids are going to go to school. also to the side with the curriculum is going to be and what we are teaching our kids. one of the most important things we need to do is improve the way we teach american history. if you look at what has happened over the course of the last 18 months, we have a real deficit when it comes to an understanding and recognition of what the constitution and what our duties are as american citizens to uphold and defend the constitution sen. bouchard: this is a very important issue for congress because somebody republicans talk about school choice but they never talk about doing anything about it. we have a federal government that is just overrun with every alphabet agency that is now involved in our schools, not just the department of education. they all need to be abolished. i'm not saying all at once, but we need to start raining and the money going to these agent fees
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that are telling schools what to do, what to do in bathrooms, holding school lunch hostage. but we need real school choice. we need to start raining and where this federal money is coming from and they are doing it on headcounts. they are doing on head count per student and it is a big money game. they have turned into a money game. how many kids are in that school? how much money we are going to get and it is all beholden to what they are telling you are those federal dollars and we need to audit what they are telling you because that is what is going on. they are saying you are going to do this if you give us this money. again, even the legislature in the state is not a thing what is going on and how that money is being appropriated. we need to fix it. it needs to stop. we need to have real choices in schools. col. knapp: does paraphrase what president reagan said, we are one generation away from freedom going away. by what is going on in our
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schools right now, including my, modern at westbrook, their teaching pronouns. who is teaching and what is accountability? the school boards are supposed to be servants. calling parents domestic terrorists, i thought al qaeda and isis. parents are not domestic terrorists. people having prosecuted and thrown out of city hall meeting is ridiculous. we have to get back to accountability for those that are supposed to serve our nation. ms. hageman: my father was on our school board for goshen county and also the chairman of the education committee and the legislature for many years. education has always been a big part of my family. my mother was a teacher, our -- my sister-in-law's. what was the most significant aspect of education was the parents involvement.
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both our parents as well as our friends and relatives. all of their parents were involved in education. the federal department of education was created by jimmy carter in 1980 and that is when everything started going downhill. we don't need a federal department of education. we have one in every state in this nation. the federal the part of education has been so disruptive and is pursuing an agenda that is so anti-american. what we read on what we have heard about over the last couple of years i think has been incredibly shocking to find out that you do have the union and you do have the department of education pursuing radical gender ideology and pursuing things that again are so anti-american. i agree with several of the folks up here, school choice is absolutely paramount. it is paramount and i just read the other day that betsy devos put together a plan to actually address the problems within the department of education.
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when i'm in congress, i want to sit down with her and talk to her what that plan was because i do believe school choice and homeschooling and other options are paramount and so important. mr. blumenshine: you have an opportunity to rebut. ms. belinsky: not all of our families are mom and dad sitting around the table. there is a lot of folks who actually have to get away from their jobs and have to make a point of getting in there and making sure their kids are being taught properly. i also encourage people to participate at school board level or whatever it takes to read with the kids or whatever but getting back to reading and writing and arithmetic, let's get back to cursive. nobody knows how to read cursive. mr. blumenshine: we will move onto the next question for representative tenney. >> driving to sheridan earlier today, we paid $5.04 per gallon of gasoline. it has come to signify rising
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inflation in wyoming and the nation but higher petroleum prices also have been something of a boom for wyoming's economy which now has a big budget surplus. this dichotomy for the non-economist can be a little confusing. five dollar gallon gas, is a good or bad for wyoming? rep. cheney: i think when you're in a situation where people have got to pay more than they can afford simply to be able to do their job, a situation where our ranchers cannot afford the diesel to get where they have got to get, whether it is our aggie industry, our communities, small businesses, the price of gas really impacts people and hurts people. as you pointed out, it also is tremendously beneficial for our fossil fuel industry. for me, the solution to all of this is to unleash the fossil fuel industry. when you look at what the biden ministration has done, they were absolutely right to stop the import of russian oil and gas. that was a very important thing they did.
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but they should have followed that up with unleashing american development of our fossil fuel industry. they have not, they have done things like move to release oil from the strategic petroleum reserve. it makes no sense at all that we are going to look to be dependent upon nations like venezuela for example for our fossil fuel needs when we have this national treasure here in the united states and here in wyoming. when you're talking about what do we need to do to both get our in g industry -- energy industry back to place it needs to be and also make sure our price of a gallon of gas is affordable, we need to unleash our energy industry so it is able to produce a people are able to make the kind of revenue they need but so we also have affordable fuel at the gas pump. sen. bouchard: one of the biggest problems we have in wyoming is the federal government owns so much of it. even when they drill on the private piece of land, the adjoining land effects that.
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they can control it. because of the proximity of where the build side is. it has been a problem all along and obviously, it has gotten worse. we have got a refinery that closed down in cheyenne and changed over to biofuel. that should not even be happening. it is regulations galore. price of fuel, half of it is the inflationary factor. if you had a silver dollar in your hand, if you are to those, 1950 silver dollar, you can fill up your tank with that. that is the inflation index. that is what our money has done. the other part is we are controlling so much of industry, it does not matter if it is led or alloys, everything that is being controlled, look at the price of fuel now. everything we have done to regulate has caused the problem we are in now. it is not just oil.
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the price of steel is over $400. you cannot even build anything. it is regulations. we have got to put a stop to it. we have to defund these federal agencies. col. knapp: right now, federal policies are destroying our economy. let the states do what they are good at and to use the resources that we have. wyoming is not rising as far as coal and oil because those elements still exist. there is a high demand for it now but what people don't see are the ones that are shut down. in campbell county, one line shut down in one day and according to the federal government, they are supposed to go and learn how to use when turbines now. -- wind turbines now. people have to choose between food and gas right now.
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i know all of us drove 22 counties. our farmers are getting hit hard. there fuel has doubled to move product to market. especially in southwestern wyoming where a lot of agriculture occurs, it is hitting hard. ms. hageman: filling the government coffers should not be our priority and the increased tax revenue does not mean the economy is healthy. we have an incredible supreme court decision reading and the epa and saying that the epa is not -- does not have the legal authority to control greenhouse gases. that is a huge win for wyoming but it is just part of the battle. congress needs to step up and actually start addressing these issues because what i'm going to say is that i truly believe there is a special place in hell for people who will adopt policies that are intended to increase the cost of energy, housing and food. that is exactly what the current administration is doing. the five dollars 40 say gasoline is because of the failures of
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the biden administration on every single thing that they have touched. the cancellation of the xo pop line -- pipeline -- xl pipeline. and what it is doing is it is going to be devastating to the middle class and the lower income among us. we sadly cannot grow food as farmers and ranchers in this state or nebraska or utah or colorado or montana when we have five dollars and six dollar a gallon diesel. this is really a horrifically regressive tax that all goes back to joe biden's policies. he has a horrible president. the people he is put in positions of power are causing serious damage to wyoming and while the state may have increased revenue, the citizens are the poor for it. ms. belinsky: our middle class and lower income folks are definitely feeling the pinch. with all of the bureaucracy going on in our government right
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now and the agenda of biden and company, this is the stage we are being destroyed from within and this is what was -- it is not a surprise. we need to make sure that we keep our oil royalties here. we need to make sure that -- the gas is only part of this problem. it is so far-reaching. there are so many people that are trying to make ends meet just by going to the gas station. i hear people make comments every time they fell out. if we can take back our energy here in wyoming, that is going to be our ticket. rep. cheney: one of the things i do in washington as i serve as the vice chair of the western caucus. in a position i've been able to make sure we are educating people both by bringing people
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from wyoming to testify at the hearings but to make sure people understand the realities of the fossil fuel industry, to understand it is a national treasure, the federal government needs to stop policies like those we have seen that would prevent drilling on our public lands and i will continue to fight every day for those policies and dues legislations that prohibit those and ensure congress has to act before any of those prohibitions can be put in place. mr. blumenshine: we have time for one more question but in order for me to give you your full time, we are going to reduce the time that you are allowed to answer this question to just one minute. if our time i can take that into a -- into account, this final question will come from bob beck. >> affordable health care continues to be a challenge for many in wyoming. are there federal solutions that you have for this problem at all? sen. bouchard: the feds caused the problem. they said it was going to be the
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affordable health care act. it has been everything but that. it seems everything the federal government touches, they break it. we now have one insurance company in wyoming. we have no more competition. this is where i have worked heavily in health and labor. i know where these policies are affected and we certainly need someone in congress that knows how it affects the states. we were actually making doctors do things they don't normally do. they will see medicaid patients twice a week. because they will go broke. they cannot afford the staff and what they're doing with medicaid. and then you have other ones that say let's pass it. they are doing all the medicaid and there habit medicaid fraud in this state to discuss that, it would take more time than i have but we are not fighting that medicaid fraud like we should. col. knapp: in our economy of
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mixed capitalism, it depends on the competition and that ensures all the of service as well as driving prices down. to limit that through federal policy is wrong. we need to have a good mix of public and private partnership spurns some of our health care and especially for our elderly and those with low income. obamacare was a mess and i was shoved down our throats and we are still trying to recover from that. hopefully we can take that lead in wyoming and get some competition here from good insurance, good doctors, medical centers that will take care of people and the best ones will be the ones that succeed. ms. hageman: as i have traveled the state, one of the industry groups i wanted to spend time with our health care providers. i've spent quite a bit of time with doctors and other folks that provide health care in our state and i don't think there is any better example of the old adage that government is always trying to fix its last solution than obamacare.
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since the moment that went into effect, we have been trying to fix the disaster it created and the problem is that it is obamacare itself. i've sat with doctors who are literally in tears because of what has happened to their profession because of the federal involvement and meddling in our medical system. we have to get the federal government out of this. if we are going to reduce costs and improve the medical care and treatment we can provide, we have got to scroll -- roll on the regulations. these folks are begging me when i get into congress to rollback the regulations. that are preventing them from being able to treat their patients and exercise their rights as adequate providers and doctors. ms. belinsky: in addressing this situation, we need to go back to actual preventative health care. it has become such a big business with the health care situation.
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i see people every day that have bottles of pills everywhere. the situations with even the pharmacist -- there was a situation i was working on that was called the ppos and it was about preferred provider organizations where these doctors could actually get involved and you have to go through them for your care but you also had health care but you could actually utilize for preventative services instead of just when i'm sick and i'm really bad, having to go to these providers. we are in a situation where we have pas. we are not even getting to see a doctor. rep. cheney: we need to adopt policies that put patients in the drivers. patients and their families ought to be making these decisions, not the federal
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government. i've been honored to be able to introduce legislation in congress to do things like expand telehealth. we saw during the pandemic how important that was for people all across wyoming and to make sure we expand the access to that, that we continue the kind of reimbursements that are necessary now that the pandemic is over is really important. i also think it is crucially important to stop surprise billing. people need to now they are not going to be faced with huge out-of-network costs and charges after they have to go to the hospital for any sort of treatment. i also think it is critically important we allow insurance competition across state lines. people need to be able to choose the insurance that makes sense for them and we should not be limited to only the insurance provider we have in wyoming. people out to be able to force the insurance companies to compete for our business. sen. bouchard: representative
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cheney has had her chance to appeal obamacare and did not take it. as far as telling that, we handle that in the state. that is just hollow talk. we need to start taking it back away from the federal government. it is too much, they passed it and said let's pass it so we can see what's in it. we have seen what is in it. it is not working. mr. blumenshine: candidates, it is time for your closing statements. by debate procedure, we go in reverse order. col. knapp: this is a great opportunity to have all five of us here, the first time we have all been together in this room and hear each other's ideas. what sets us apart? everybody is talking about the same issues. we are all republicans and for the most part, pro-life, pro-second amendment, pro-states rights so it makes us different? you have some great experience here to include people that have been in state and federal government for a long time and a
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lot of different things. i and a servant all my life and that is what i do. i saw what is happening with the federal government and i know i can make a difference. i got mad. part of that running is ensuring that i'm representing our state here and those that elected me and i make ethical and moral decisions in their benefit and if i cannot do that, i leave. leadership, i have done that all my life starting 18 years old. i went to westport for four years in my last 10 years of leading a strategic level in the army and that is working and negotiating and coming to solutions have to have an into state to be educated -- executed. bills or acquisition, i can make a difference. people ask why did you start at state or local? there is no time. i can get in and out into two years and make a difference. sen. bouchard: i have said that
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before. i'm a different candidate because i started out in conservative grassroots politics. i was effective. if you like our gun laws in our state, constitutional to carry, i was the driving force behind that. and i'm proud to have the senator that sponsored it the audience. it was because we spent a decade trying to pass that policy and we could not get -- get it done and we had to get people involved on the outside. we need more people who know how to get people in the fight in congress. incident just giving great speeches and becoming actors and saying all the right things and then going back there and doing nothing. if you some music congress, i will use the resources of the office, the budget, the staff to do just that. to bring the fight back because the problem is republicans will
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get control. i think they will, but will we have the right republicans there? will we have people that will actually fight? and that means standing up to leadership. that is something i have done. i have the battle scars. when they call me in the office, i tell them i don't work for them and that is what we need more of in congress. rep. cheney: it has been a tremendous honor, the highest honor of my professional life to represent the people of wyoming for the last 5.5 years. i am a conservative republican and will work hard to earn the vote of every wyomingite in this election and i think it is important for people to know that i believe the most conservative of conservative principles is fidelity to our constitution. we ride for the brand and our brand is the united states constitution. i'm going to ask people for their vote, work hard to earn it but people need to know something about me. i will never put party above my
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duty to the country. i will never put party above my duty to the constitution i soar nose under god and i will abide by that oath. i will say something was wrong sibley to earn the votes of people to earn political support. that is what the voters of wyoming deserve and demand and the kind of respect we owe the voters of this great state. we need to recognize if we are not faithful to the constitution, and break the lies of donald trump, tell the people of wyoming something that is not true, we will soon find ourselves without the structure and the bases and framework of our constitutional republic. if we don't abide by the constitution when it is politically inconvenient then we will not have a constitution as our shield when we need to defend our first amendment and second amendment right. i asking for your vote and ask you to understand i will never violate my oath of office, and if you are voting for someone who will, you need about for someone else. i will always put my oath first. ms. belinsky: the constitution
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is used a lot. it is about being the relatable candidate. the actual one who is standing up for people who are just ordinary like myself. this is not rocket science. we don't need anymore politicians or attorneys to keep telling us what to do. this is important for wyoming. we need a voice, someone who is actually relatable and knows what goes on in the state. at whatever level. i have been around wyoming and seen everything i need to know to be a representative of this state. i have been doing some of the work already. to me, that is important because i'm not waiting to be elected. i want to make sure i am doing the work for the people here in wyoming.
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this is an important race and i am doing this on my own. i'm the grassroots republican candidate that is hellbent to make sure we have a voice in d.c. i have been there, i know what it is like and we have to take back our state. ms. hageman: it is wonderful to be here tonight and i want to you for sponsoring this and the audience being here. it is wonderful to see new faces on stage. i've been traveling the state, over 35,000 miles now and one of the words i hear over and over and over again is accountability. the people of wyoming do not believe they are being represented in congress right now because our representative does not come to wyoming. she does not come here to talk to us to explain her vote or defend the decisions that she is making. she focuses a lot of time on the january 6 mehdi but is not addressing the issues that are important to wyoming.
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i'm the only real proven success up here on this stage. i have been fighting the issues for wyoming for over 25 years. i have been fighting to protect our water rights, property rights and constitutional rights. i been representing our municipalities, counties, the state of wyoming, farmers and ranchers, oil and gas companies, irrigation districts, small businesses. i have been representing them and fighting against the federal overreach we have talked about over and over again tonight. i have fought back and beat the epa, the usda, u.s. fish and wildlife service. i actually on the one person who has done something to get more access to federal lands in the state of wyoming. i know how these agencies work. i have the experience to go back there and actually fight against them and i'm asking for your vote on august 16. thank you. mr. blumenshine: candidates, thank you so much for attending tonight's debate.
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this is the first time you have all been on the stage together. i'm here to tell the state and country, this is how you discuss a civil discussion on the issues that are important to our state and country. so thank you very much for participating with us this evening. the audience can applaud now if they so choose. and for the audience as well, i think it is important to say this was very important for you to see you. we do wish more people could be here, but thank you very much for conducting ourselves in a civil manner as well. absentee voting begins tomorrow in the state of wyoming, and if you are not voting via absentee ballot, we encourage you to vote in the primary election on tuesday, august 16. i want to thank our panel this evening for serving. thank you very much and tower timer, thank you very much. we appreciate our simulcasting partner and you can see this debate again on the wyoming pbs
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youtube page. we encourage you to stay tune for more debates to come. the next i believe is july 28. from all of us from the wyoming public media and the media here in wyoming, thank you very much. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. comcast is partnering with a thousand community centers so students from low income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. comcast support c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> coming up on c-span, we
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continue to look at the u.s. capitol attack investigation from the january 6 committee. and then the republican primary debate for wyoming's at large house seat. >> the january 6 committee is expected to resume public hearings when congress returns from their recess. all week, we have been showing you each hearing that has aired so far. tonight, the fifth hearing.


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