tv January 6 Hearings Sixth Hearing on U.S. Capitol Attack CSPAN July 2, 2022 8:59pm-9:46pm EDT
glad to offer my resignation and he pounded the table and said accept it. rep. cheney: deserve. chair. thompson: chairwoman reserves. we ask that you remain seated until the capitol police have escorted the witness of -- out of the room. you will have a. -- we will have a period of he says for approximately 10 minutes. -- tests -- recess for approximately 10 minutes. [applause]
rep. thompson: the committee will be in order. the chair recognizes that gentlemen from wyoming -- gentlewoman from wyoming. rep. cheney: before return to what ms. hutchison saw and heard -- let's discuss certain communications white house chief of staff's -- metals had on january 6. roger stone attended rallies during the afternoon and evening of january 6 in washington dc. on january 5 and six, mr. stone was photographed with multiple
members of the of teachers -- of the both teacher -- of the oath keepers. multiple members of that organization will charged with or played guilty to crimes related to january 6. mr. talk -- general michael flynn has also taken the bit before this committee. mr. stone previously had been convicted of other federal clients -- president jump --president trump pardoned general fund just after the election. and in july 2020, he commuted the sentence. the night before january 6, president trump instructed his staff to contact both roger
stone and michael flynn regarding what would play out the next day. ms. hutchinson, is it your understanding that president trump asked mark meadows to speak with general flynn and mark meadows on january 5. ? >> i am under the question that mr. mentos didam under the imprt mr. meadows completed both called to them on the evening of the fifth. rep. cheney: do you know what they talked about that evening? ms. hutchinson: not sure. rep. cheney: -- war room at the willard hotel? ms. hutchinson: i was aware of that. rep. cheney: do you know mr. meadows ever intended to go to the hotel on that night? ms. hutchinson: he had a
conversation with me where he wanted to work with the secret service -- with mr. giuliani in the associates in the war room. rep. cheney: what was your view on that on whether mr. meadows should go or not? ms. hutchinson: i made it clear to him that i don't think it was a smart idea for him to go to the hotel. i was unsure on everything that was going on their although i knew enough that -- on everything mr. giuliani and his associates were pushing during this period. i did not think it was appropriate for the white house chief of staff to attend or involved in that. i made that clear to him. he mentioned a few more times going to the hotel that evening and eventually dropped the subject the night of the bit and
said he would dial in instead. rep. cheney: general flynn has appeared before this committee and when he appeared, he took the fifth. let's view a clip of general michael flynn taking the fifth amendment. >> do you believe the violence on january was justified? -- january 6 was justified? yes. >> could you are a peep question please? -- repeat the question? rep. cheney: do you believe the violence was justified?
i am asking both. >> i plead the fifth. rep. cheney: you believe the balance on january 6 was justified morally? -- the violence on january 6 was justified morally? >> i plead the fifth. rep. cheney: do you believe the violence on january 6 was justified legally? >> the fit. rep. cheney: do you believe the balance of power was justified -- transfer other -- power is justified in america? >> the fifth. rep. cheney: are context and
this clip you describe the timeframe starting at 2 p.m.. >> was at his office for quite some time -- mark was at his office for quite some time -- i don't doubt that he had gone in but i remember him being gone for most of the after new. -- after no. -- afternoon. we were watching the tv and accuracy the rioters were closer to the capital. he hadn't said anything about it and i went to his office and saw he was sitting on his couch on his cell phone and he was calling and typing -- scrolling typing -- and typing.
you can see it but i didn't know he was paying attention. he goes, yeah. -- still looking at his phone. i start to get frustrated because i felt like i was watching -- a bad car accident about to happen where you cannot stop it but if you want to be able to do something and i remember thinking in that moment mark needs to snap out of it and i don't know how to snap them out. he needs to clear and i blurted out, do you know where jim is out and he looked up at me and said, jeff?
-- yes. do you know where he is at? he said i hadn't heard for -- from him. i say that you might want to check in. the rioters are getting close and they might get in. he said something to be upset -- effective i will give him a call -- the affect of i will give him a call. rep. cheney: you describe what happened to pass it along --pat -- >> i see him barreling down the hallway towards our office and he ruptured and look at me and said his mark in his office and he said yes -- i said yes. he shook his head and open
mark's's and stood there at the door open and mark was sitting on his phone and i remember tax same to him something to the affect of the rioters have got into the capital and we need to go see the president now and mark looked up and said he doesn't want to do anything and pat said something to the effect of and very clearly said said this to mark -- mark, something needs to be done or people -- are going to die in the blood will be on your effing hands. mark got off his phone and left his phone on my desk and said let me know if jim calls and they walked out of the dime -- and they walked out of the room.
a couple minutes later, likely around between 2:15 -- 225. -- 2:25. jim called and i answer the phone and it said one second and i guess he knew it was me and i introduced myself and i don't remember if he call myself or someone else but -- he says ok and i went down and i asked the valet if mark was in the dining room and he said yes and i opened the door to the van will -- dining room and briefly stepped in to get mark's attention and i showed him the phone and flipped the phone's wake to see who it was. he took the phone talking to jim
with the door propped open so i took a few steps back so i was two feet from mark and he was standing in the doorway to the oval office room. they had a brief conversation and in the crossfire i heard in the background, i heard conversations in the old dining room at that point talking about the hang mike pence chance. --chamt. rep. cheney: backlit ended that you heard -- with what you heard -- that's clip ended with what you heard. you describe what happened next. ms. hutchinson: i went back to my desk and a couple minutes later him and pat came back and maybe another desk eric person
was there -- and eric person was there but i am confident he was there. i remember pat saying something to the effect of mark, you need to do something the -- more. they are calling for the vice president to be effing h -- hung. -- we need to be doing something more. mark had said something to the effect of a don't think they are doing anything wrong. knowing what i had heard briefly in the dining room, coupled with pat discussing the hang of mike pence chance in the lobby of our office, i understood there to be the rioters at the capital that
were chanting for the vice president to be hung. rep. cheney: let me pause at this point. the rioters chanted hang mike pence. the president of the united states, donald trump, said that, calls, mike deserves it and that rioters -- those rioters were not doing anything wrong. in an interview with nbc correspondent jonathan carle, president trump was asked about the supportive chanted hang mike pence. instead of condemning them, the former president commanded them -- defended them. >> it is common sense that you are supposed to protect -- if you know april is fraudulent, how can you pass on a fraudulent to congress? rep. cheney: president viewed
that the writers were not doing anything wrong. also to understand why the president did not ask the rioters to leave the capital for multiple hours. he put this tweet out at 2:24 p.m. ms. hutchison, do you recall seeing this between -- this tweet? ms. hutchinson: i do. rep. cheney: what was your reaction? ms. hutchinson: as a staffer that worked to always represent the administration to the best of my ability and to showcase the good things he has done for the country, i remember feeling frustrated, disappointed and it
felt personal. it was said. --sad. as an american, i was disgusted. it was unpatriotic and un-american and we were watching the capitol building get defaced over a life --lie and it was hard in that moment to digest knowing what i had been hearing down the hall and the conversations, seeing that sweet coming up and knowing what was happening on the hill. struggle to work through the emotions of that. rep. cheney: we have spoken to other white house staff about their staff to donald trump's
suite condemning mike pence for not having the courage to condemn the electoral votes. matthew passenger served in the white house for four years including as deputy national security advisor and was in bed big city the mobile office at various points throughout the day and when he saw this week, he decided to resign his position. let's watch him describe his reaction. >> one of my staff brought me -- print out of eight suite --a t weet by the president and the tweet had something of the effect that devices president in happy courage to do what should have been done -- did not have encouraged to do what should have been done will stop i read that sweet -- been done.
i have read this week's and made the decision to resign. i knew i was leaving that day was i read it. -- once i read it. rep. cheney: several people resign as well. here is secretary devos's resignation letter. in resign on january 6, secretary devos said that, quote, " there is no mistaking the empire of your words had -- impacts your words had" -- as i am sure is the case with many of you, this is troubled me in a way that i cannot satisfy".
we have asked you about what the presidential advisers were urging him to do during the attack. you describe three different caps off thoughts. can you tell us about those? ms. hutchinson: there groups that were strongly urging him to take immediate action. mr. ivanka trump in that category of -- miss vodka -- about ivanka trump in that category of pleading him to take action. there was a neutral group where advisors were trying to tell the line, knowing that president trump didn't want to take immediate action and condemn the rights --riots. they needed it to be done in there was the last group that
was stuck letting blame -- was deflecting blame. it is my understanding that mr. meadows was in the deflecting category but he was seeking a neutral rest knowing that there were several advisors urging him to take more action. it was reflected in the rhetoric released later that day. rep. cheney: you taught us that the white house office was in the camp encouraging the president to tell the rioters to stop the attack. >> white house counsel office when it him to condemn the rioters. i am confident in that. rep. cheney: let's look at one example at what advisors were urging. could you look at the exhibit that we are showing on the screen now?
have you seen this note before? ms. hutchinson: i wrote that note at the direction of the chief of staff at january 6 around 3:00 time -- 3:00. >> that is your handwriting? ms. hutchinson: that is my handwriting. rep. cheney: why did you write it? ms. hutchinson: the chief of staff was in a meeting with others and they rushed out of the office and mark handed me the note card with one of his pant and dictating a statement for the president to potentially put out. there were two phrases -- a bear. one was illegal and one was proper authority. the illegal phrase was something that was dictated to me will stop -- b. -- if the president had opted to
put one of those statements out. he got from the oval dining room and put the car on my desk with illegal crossed out and said we didn't need to take further action on that statement. rep. cheney: to your knowledge, this statement was never issued. ms. hutchinson: to my knowledge. rep. cheney: did you understand me ivanka trump when it her father to send people home? ms. hutchinson: that is my understanding. rep. cheney: let's play a cliff. >> i remember her saying at this point, no. she wants her dad to send them home and told him to go home peacefully -- rep. cheney: you will hear more
about this in our labor hearings -- clear appearance. here is some of that evidence. text messages sent to mark meadows during the attack. the president needs to tell people at the capitol to go home. the next message, this is hurting all of us and then he is destroying his legacy and playing into every stereotype and we lose all credibility against the blm and ansi live craft if things go south. the president's son don jr. urgently contacted mark meadows. he wrote, he has to condemn this shit asap. these are two examples of truck supporters and allies urging the president to tell his supporters
to leave the capital. it will not -- would not have been hard for the president to walk down to be meeting room. a reporter -- but harvey said he believed the attack was -- mccarthy said he believed the attack was -- >> i condemned the violence in the capital. what we are watching unfold is on america. i am disappointed and sad. this is out of the country should look like. this is not -- the first amendment. >> the cameras are higher 24/7.
why has that he walked out and said that now? >> conveyed to the president what i think is best to do. i am hopeful the president will do that. >> mike gallagher employ the president to call off the attack. -- implored the president to call attack. >> you are the only person who can call this off. call it off. the election is over. call it off. this is bigger than you. it is bigger than any member of congress. it is about the united states of america which is more important than any politician. call it off. it is over. rep. cheney: despite the fact that many people close to donald trump were urging him to send people home, he did not sue --
do so until much later. at 417 -- 4:17, donald trump told the rioters to go home and he let -- left out. -- left them. pres. trump: we have to have each -- peace. go home. you have seen the way others of -- have been treated. i know how you feel. go home in peace. rep. cheney: asked we will show in greater detail, donald trump was reluctant to put this message out and he still could not bring himself to condemn the attack. ms. hutchison excellent as this. -- castel estes. -- has told us this. ms. hutchinson: i recall him
being reluctant to some of the video of the sixth of what involves -- i remember seeing the video go out. rep. cheney: on the evening of january 6 and the day after, the president's family and his senior staff and others try to encourage the president to condemn the violence and commit to peaceful transition of power. at 3:31 p.m. at january 6, sean hannity texas -- texted mark meadows. sean hannity, called -- quotes -- sean hannity sent another text to mark meadows. he shared a link to the suite. the suite reported --tweet
reported -- as you can see on the screen, 26 -- 25th amendment to the constitution creates the process of a transition of power if the president is on switch -- unfit or unable to reserve -- sir. the committee has learned that this was being discussed by members of the cabinet. president trump supporters were worried. in addition to the suite that -- one him about what could happen. we understand that this text message sean hannity sent to --
no more stolen elections. second, impeachment and 25th amendment are real. many people will quit. ms. hutchison, you told us that you were hearing about discussions related to the 25th amendment. here is part of what you said. ms. hutchinson: mr. meadows was having -- and what i just spent understand it was more -- and what i understand, it was more of what i am hearing. we want you to be to -- aware of it. you are the chief of staff and -- conversations -- you should be ready to take action on this. i am concerned with you and your positioning. reach out to me if you have
questions or if i can be helpful. rep. cheney: inside the white house, the president advisors including members of this family wanted delivered -- these delivered to the country. -- delivered by a pretaped video on january 7. when he arrived at the white house on the seventh, mr. fielding believed that more needed to be set so he started writing. he shared the draft to someone who believed the president needed to say more. mr. pallone agree with the concept -- context. the committee has learned that the president did not agree to the draft and resisted giving a speech. do you recall discussions about the president's speech on january 7? [applause] i do --ms. hutchinson: do -- i
do. but from the conversations -- i learned from the conversations -- that trump didn't think he needed to do anything more on the seventh than what he had done. on the six. when he was convinced to put out a video on the seventh, i understand that he had a lot of opinions on what the context of that with detail. i had original drafts and there were several lines that didn't make it about prosecuting the rioters are calling them violence. -- violence. --violent. there was an increased emphasis
of his mindset which was he did not think he did anything wrong. the people who did something wrong that day -- was mike pence not standing with him. rep. cheney: the president's advisers urged him to give a speech. >> who convinced him to do the video on the seventh? ms. hutchinson: i am not sure who convinced him. >> who was in the group? ms. hutchinson: mark, about that, -- about the trump -- ivanka trump, jared kushner -- those are the people i am aware of. >> do you know why that group of people that it was necessary to release this statement? ms. hutchinson: from what i
understood and from what the reports were coming in, there was a large concern of the 25th amendment being evoked and there were concerns or what would happen in this -- in the senate. the primary reason i have heard other than we did not do enough on the sixth and we need to get a message out there to condemn them. the secondary reason was what would happen in the final 15 days of your presidency if you do not do this. rep. cheney: the president delivered the remarks. unlike many of these other speeches, he did not ad lib.. he recited. even on january 7, the day after
the attack, the president could not bring himself to say, ", "this election is now over." did you hear mr. trump at one point went to add language about targeting those who took place -- part in the rights --riots? ms. hutchinson: i did hear that. >> said he was instructed not to include? who said that? ms. hutchinson: -- they said they did not think that was a good idea to include that. they encouraged him. >> is, did rudy giuliani ever suggest that he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6? ms. hutchinson: he did.
rep. cheney: did white house chief of staff mark meadows indicated that he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6? ms. hutchinson: yes ma'am. rep. cheney: thank you. i yelled back. --yeild back. rep. thompson: wants to thank my witness. -- i want to thank my witness. objection, members will be permitted to 10 business days to submit statements on the record, including opening remarks and additional questions to the witness. without objection, the chair recognizes the vice chair recognizes the vice chair for a closing statement. rep. cheney: also begin by thanking ms. hutchison for her testimony today. we are all in her death.
our nation -- is preserved by those in their all caps --oaths. i once all americans to know that what ms. hutchison has done today is not easy. the easy course is too high from the spotlight -- to hide from the spotlight and to deny what happened. that brings me to a different topic. while our committee has seen many witnesses, including many republicans testify fully and forthrightly, this has not been true of every witness. we have received evidence of one particular practice that raises significant concern. our committee commonly asks witness is connected to mr. trump's administration or campaign, whether they have been contacted by any of their former colleagues or anyone else who
attempted to influence or impact their testimony. without identifying any of the individuals involved, let me show you a couple of examples of answers we seek to this question. first, here is how one witness described paul krause -- phone calls from people interested in the witnesses testimony. " but they said to me is as long as i am a team player, i am on the right team. i am protecting what i need to protect. i will continue to stay in good graces in trump's role and they have reminded me that trump's reads -- trump reads transcripts and keep that in mind." here is a another sample. this is a call received by one of our witnesses.
" the person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know that they are thinking about you and he knows that you are loyal and you will do the right thing. i think most americans know that influencing witnesses to testify falsely raise concerns. i yield back. rep. thompson: the gentlewoman deals back. ms. hutchison, thank you for doing your patriotic duty helping the american people getting a plea -- complete understanding of january 6. thank you for your courage in testifying here today. you have gratitude of this committee and the country.
i know it was not easy to sit here today and answer the questions but after hearing testimony in all candor and detail, i want to speak to the witnesses who have been out lives in -- outliers in our investigation. the small number that have divided us all right. those whose memories have failed them again and again on the most important details and to those who fear donald trump and his enablers because of this courageous woman and others like her, your attempt to hide the true -- truth will fail. and to the rule of witnesses, if you heard this testimony today and you remember things you could previously recall, or there is some details you would like to clarify, or you discover some courage you had hidden
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