tv Doc Film - Europes Muslims - On the Road with Nazan Gokdemir and Hamed... Deutsche Welle October 14, 2017 9:15pm-10:01pm CEST
surf league john john they're wowing the crowds of acrobatic tour and especially a series of three sixty's now watch this it's a near perfect and it could help them move back out to world number one that's right finish last year. how about that jon jon well in the crowds are you want to introduce you to a very special pair of two year olds but this it's not your usual toddler party meet jiao panpan and his sister your you up they celebrated their special day at the toronto zoo in canada they were given bamboo stuffed cakes as part of their birthday celebration. a quick reminder of our top story this hour austrian elections are on sunday and they're expecting to see an anti immigration coalition take power polls show the election is likely to result in a government coalition between the conservative and far right populist parties.
that's never news you're up to date thanks for watching. make your smart t.v. even smarter with the smart. what you want what you want to. update. extraordinary. depth. you decide what's on. sunday no more double down sports. begin to fly we're on a journey to see how europe's muslims live do muslims in belgium france and spain have the same problems and worries the same desires are europe's muslims the same everywhere are they able to reflect critically on islam. you know where does this
work especially well where doesn't it. what are their fears do they have to fear exclusion. for me that's where the conflict is distinguishing between the ideology or religion and the people in them and. that's what motivated me to go on this journey how met had a bad reputation for hating islam that shows that critics of islam aren't really welcome so you can end up in a dangerous place on that side because it's high time to eliminate this issue from the perspective of the people not bashing islam but not islamic p.r. either we can't allow right wing populists to be the only voices criticizing islam . i don't think it's badgered out and criticized on the contrary.
muslims were acting on it in these tense times he's considered germany's toughest critic of islam our journey takes us to belgium i'm curious to know whether hamad will be confronted with less reputation than in germany. and if i lived in brussels for a year ten years ago it was that even then the city was really diverse. but there are more women wearing head scarves now than back then it's like you know what does that mean islam more established in belgium than in germany. is the islamization more progressed. good question. in the debate about islam belgium was a blind spot until the attacks in paris and brussels today it's in a state of emergency the mole and they can scare big districts have been referred to as a breeding ground for terror the fact that the attackers were able to stay hidden
and scared baked for weeks in the middle of the capital indicates there's no pick network of coconspirators and accomplices we need officer hamad bin issue has been a member of the police force for more than thirty years ahmed is waiting across the way for security reasons. and you. know now that. my colleague is nearby but he's not alone he's under police protection and. he's written books critical of islam. yes he has received death threats we all have to die of something. so cynical on the contrary if you fight for something you mustn't be scared. of them having this home if you're never going to. go alone if we're curious.
what's going on in the scar big neighborhood of a body in a room that i say he began in the late eighty's that's when the problem started more and more women took to wearing veils and the men started growing beards for the defense of along the gulf and this. and there was also lots of talk about islam. if you do or don't know about the stuff ali in the remarks about the so it's wrong to politicize islam what is it exactly whether i'm a muslim a buddhist a jew or a catholic it's my business and we go in public i'm a citizen. it's nobody's business whether at home i pray or sleep on we have to learn not to put ourselves on public display like that why should i run around waving a flag saying look at me i'm a muslim what for am i not convinced of being a muslim that my parents weren't muslims why this constant need to show it all the
time you know. come on with me where does this need come from the moment i don't want to do more we monitored in memes for security purposes that he could come say on the t.v. so presumably and we learned that the muslim preachers from egypt and saudi arabia have tried to islam eyes the immigrants in europe the huge. obvious that would be is that i'm using the preachers treason of the first generation of guest workers like good for nothings. really a pretty. good thing. you're not a proper muslims you allow your women to wear skirts and so on. that brings me more with obviously wolf i'm so beyond you you know i sit down. why did belgium allow it. all the countries allowed it belgium germany
france spain why because of the money. how exactly does belgium benefit. economic relations with the saudis they buy western products the oil crisis in one hundred seventy three showed how the saudis control the oil price the oil price fell. the only thing i understand is that it's about oil and saudi arabia yes. how about taking a look around. of course let's go. to meetin issue is convinced that belgian. politicians ignored saudi arabia's and fluent on the moroccan and turkish immigrants for too long saudi arabia has funded and controlled most of the mosques in the country since the one nine hundred seventy s. . a mom supported by the saudis have preach wahhabism for
more than thirty years it's significantly more conservative than the islam of the guest workers. i spoke of are we talking about the islam of the salafist the islam of the muslim brotherhood or of the habits or the islamic practice by my mom and dad. which islam are we talking about. we won't get anywhere with sweeping judgments just one terrorist suffices to bring an entire neighborhood into disrepute it's only at second glance that i spot small mosques in some residential buildings one aspect that since the attacks is unique here the mosques only open in certain minutes before prayer you know they can't say oh all day for security reasons there was aggression. against muslims and yes in saw it.
do you know young people who've become radicalized. sometimes i talk to parents whose children have gone to syria i always tell them your children a grown up it was their own decision to leave with. you can say discrimination is to blame the teacher who put the children into a corner. no children radicalized themselves not sure where you see the prophet the future me fucking with you why they chose that option off you see this let me. offer you i tell them quite clearly if your children go away and participate in an attack then the terrorists win the housing was awful at the fact. there is no excuse for them. going on the. radicalization doesn't start in the mosque it starts in the head.
and. the process begins here when the parents of these children were still young themselves. it was their grandparents who came out here to tell their wives to him mom said no more skirts. or oh you know the emotions are partly to blame ok i'll say it as clearly as i can the responsibility lies with the mams and old a muslim institutions i tell into their faces i can't bear the things you say spiritual journey nonsense as if my mother was not on a spiritual journey that good does it do the young people who move from here to syria. also you. people did he was very they talk of liberating greater syria just as it's written in the qur'an to get to paradise with seventy two virgins times three so two hundred. a lot in any
case if you don't have two hundred forty one could you satisfy them all. we. have a bit. more common. where in your voyage just outside of brussels. it is from here that the greatest number of young people moved from europe to syria to join as law makes state. we need social worker mo lied. he does preventive work to counter radicalization. and. something i don't know what's. the best. how would you describe this place. if you were formed seems. to have evolved to
build thought is a small flemish town with a population of forty three thousand that's basically quite ordinary about in twenty twelve dozens of young people went to syria mostly from here twenty nine young people from will vote alone i knew almost all of them you were there during the time they were radicalized. yes i don't start in billboard in two thousand and nine before the war in syria. it started when the he job was banned in schools. that were they saw the young people ask themselves why and started considering their identity a year later the government banned the burka for security reasons we were told because any woman wearing a burka could rob a bank. because he had a valuable ticket but the kids believed far more bank robberies were committed by
people wearing motorbike helmets and that the ban had nothing to do with public security. it was only intended to discriminate against muslims. although presume it is. not long after that the belgian government decided to support the americans in afghanistan. gov more because this is the young people said that's going too far or. we muslims are paying taxes that fund a war against our own muslim brothers and sisters in afghanistan but if it would hoover and i get caught hold of. this one of those don't i so much. would you already call that radical thinking that you know weeks of your corner comment was those you were yes because at that point you've already pushed the young people to the edge of society to such an extent that they don't want to assimilate anymore
they use a statement by the prophet as an argument the muslim community is a body one part is hurting the whole body feels it that's why young people also feel connected to their sisters and brothers in afghanistan a good opportunity to see so that's why they said i can't say here anymore in part for humanitarian reasons i have to do something in syria turkey supportive of it was the perfect but it was also ideological in order found this islamic state. how can it be that this barbaric ideology is so attractive to them that this if either. of them because it gives them a kind of identity you're not just a number anymore all at once you've got status like you're the prison i remember one young person who learned a few words of arabic the other said wow he speaks arabic he knows something about religion. and for the positive. after you've internalized their form of islam
the natural conclusion is that you should reject non muslims and that you must be violent to us people said oh even if that's the process of life for live as it is for but. because it is going to have a purification. exactly. are you optimistic about the future. still have to contend with those who return i know how frustrated these young people were when they left they had a strong aversion to the police or example we've not yet seen the last of the attacks unfortunately. though as if. this was. the book or the cause of it.
just me i myself am out of it what grieves me the most is all the unfulfilled potential by see young people who have real potential who are friendly and kind since the initial and the screaming out to achieve something and they don't succeed . on this but in this unfulfilled potential is the central source of suffering in all civilisation just. forget about radicalization violence and terrorism those are just by products that is the. problem. yet. i'm still thinking about where this hatred comes from and how it develops we're
going to meet someone who got caught up in this trap of radicalization himself today he fights against extremism he's become a real role model for many young people in the bali years jemima does not know also known as joe dalton he became radicalized in prison and knew one of the pair. attackers personally he experienced the recent wave of extremism close up and personal. that just. another reason you know if you're in. what's changed over the past ten years you don't want to go to the mall the world becomes radicalized the more important it is to keep a level head you know. otherwise you'll go under in this system that's self-destruction. this. is what's the problem with the system.
we come from problem areas all the things the system says about us i don't affect us that's why we don't expect anything from the system either. but i have used them because what do you mean with the system is that injustice french democracy fraternity equality. there's no equality we don't live as equals. only you think that's amusing. there's no fraternity either we live in an individualistic society the rich get richer and the poor poor or there are many people living on the streets. there's no equality nothing is shared to us democracy is hypocrisy or no. who is us and. us the others
those who are excluded we struggle to integrate is not like we haven't really tried we've tried to open the doors to get in but we've always been pushed back once you accept that you're going to be on the outside the problems start you start seeing more clearly and discovering the system behind it but how to fight this monster of a system was so small. what i'm doing but yeah a system. maybe with the help of religion. religion is god and god is above the system it's. but that's no different yes no johnson i was in prison because i was accused of a murder i didn't commit. the sin not you sit there innocent but convicted even though you haven't done. and i think. i'll go to school for.
this said the only ray of hope i saw was religion you think why not become god's soldier and going to battle against the system but the real some good if you i already had children but i no longer wanted to see them. all want to stop it's always good to make fun. i was afraid i would lose my vision or become too sensitive because of the. god that was all there was for me. one day my sister came to visit me in prison even though i didn't want her to she showed me pictures of my children and said they haven't done anything to you they haven't chosen to follow a religion they feel nothing but love for you. you can i work for you but the minute they got that is it gives you think about it. later i was meditating in my cell and
suddenly i saw images of joy the joy of life that's when i realized that my love for my children was far greater than the voice in me that told me to fight a system. that was all are you now in touch with your children oh. yes and i have contact with all children i work with children from these neighborhoods here. i teach them discipline and i try to find the key to strengthen them in their vision of life. because you. have. to get a real sense that jeremy's life is shaped by extremes now he advocates the ideals of love and he gets through to young people thanks to his convincing me. but how
far would he have been willing to go during the days he felt hatred. when i hear soldier of god it scares me. of course it's scary i was consumed by hatred i was in a hole you can fall deeper than prison beyond that there's only death as soon as you cut off the life inside of yourself you become one of the living dead. you no longer have emotions you just have to do needs to be done. to feel still for the young meaning if you have to sacrifice yourself you have to sacrifice yourself so the system understands that it doesn't have any power over you and that there is only god back then i would have done that that means people like me could have become victims of your attacks even though we're innocent there was that for tony but i was innocent too. and that justifies killing people.
no it doesn't justify it but once you've cut yourself off from life you don't see people anymore just the system you have to put yourself in their place to understand it otherwise you can't understand this hatred if you've not lived the life of a homeless person and you've never felt excluded you won't understand that you could be an expert in philosophy and education but it wouldn't help. you good morning. to you cannot shatter children's dreams at that age i still believe what they're told on television is but you fool but is it is the government of stars that well but i think. but then they grow up. and even the ones you and when injustice strikes if you talk to them ten twenty years later. then no longer the same. associate he adored
in contrast to germany france maintains a strict separation of church and state the principle of secularism is meant to give all people religious freedom there are no statistics about religious affiliation there's no religious education at state schools and rang religious symbols in public is against the law. that means veils are forbidden as a result some muslims feel their religious freedom is being infringed. we want to meet a former grand mufti so hey ben cheikh we're about to find out whether the deeply religious bend. shaykh well debate with hammett so he was born in saudi arabia
seven of his uncles were the moms and his father was also an islamic scholar i'm interested in why he's convinced that secularism doesn't prevent muslims from practicing their faith in these events. it's been a social thing i think if there was something. i know of only that let's talk about islam in france. of holes is there a french islamic. over him or not really there's no french islam but that will come it's almost obligatory because islam doesn't exist in a bubble so you always have to see it within the context of the culture within which it exists a kind of intrigue. why is islam compatible with europe. there are people who claim the opposite. name in part and you don't have a choice it doesn't matter whether you're a citizen or whether you're just living here because everyone has signed the
contract of secularism in france because i'm concerned that the extremists are using secularism as a trojan horse to benefit from it as a minority it's secularism it's in the same standing as the catholicism that fundamentally shaped france is history yet it's about banned in muslim countries in those countries minorities such as christians jews and those without a religion and given the same rights as muslims those who are ideologically opposed to secularism mightn't even know what it means if there was no secularism in france only democracy meaning the will of the majority then the constitutional principle of secularism wouldn't exist because it would be kept. if you saw in a queue that i saw it we wouldn't be here anymore we'd have fallen silent it's secularism this allows me to talk about my religion. so you know ways to remote
always a party of the moment but there's no strict secularism in germany. you have freedom of religion the neutrality of the state with regard to religious denominations that means it doesn't matter if you have a faith or not there's a tacit separation between church and state so it's secular without germany calling it that. for you. so that you know. i'm not making this film alone. i'm making it with handmade abdel some odd have you heard of him yes i have is he here. he's not far from here i'll call him if you're ok with that call him i know he attended five himself as an atheist i'll call him i really want to meet him great then the three of us can talk. i don't agree with him but i do anything to ensure he exists and that is voice be
heard i know that his opinions have caused debates online and it was only thanks to the intervention of printing this in the fifteenth century people were able to liberate themselves from the dogmas of the catholic church in the loss of colossal you would like it you can see how many voices from the same thing is now happening through the internet. i don't need much faster and more intensely. right. now you can't hide the frightening bits of scripture in islam there freely accessible to everyone one museum it takes some time to expose the ottomans yes i wanted. to say that i understand what often they have been. i don't know. how to start all of it. i know. that if you will mark i don't always agree with your methods but i agree with your goal in my view your style is
sometimes too provocative. looking not looking any but i'll do anything i can to ensure your voice exists because you started an important discussion can you know. they come up with a specific didn't you how do you explain that there are muslims threatened with death. just simply because he criticizes islam so that you can. just see your vision with some of what the people who wish for his death do is justify his position. so this new. term in his death would prove him right. you have a. strange praise indeed when. your work is important to. teach. because our scriptures are sacred they don't allow any critical voice
that pathological deadly you wish death upon others those who avoid dialogue and confrontation are consumed by don't see deep within. the view. that they're muslims all muslims should try to take a detached view of their religion. right i mean this is common for them to do with and. that's exactly what i did i took a few steps back and looked at the whole thing from the outside i saw how rigid it all was they say it's the world i use a sort of shock therapy to show that it's not the world that the prophet isn't the holiest thing to have ever existed so zog and us escape missed this is this the event. that the qur'an isn't the best book to have ever been written is this just this the move to say this is and it's a book by many people. how many is a historical character with flaws and vices and all of that that's what triggers
this reaction. hours after that some people start to think others become aggressive but we can't just leave it as it is. that's. the conclusion we can draw here with him as a devout muslim and you as an xmas long i don't like the term x. muslim how would you describe yourself he doesn't like x. . no post muslim is that better. that's ok. the conclusion we can just write. is that mr ben cheikh as a practicing religious muslim and you as opposed to muslims share something. i met. and that's the premise ability of joust and the fight against radicalization.
and we agree on secularism. this. that's a. that's a good foundation. is that you know. how many doesn't force anyone to be an atheist or to be non-religious he just talks nobody should be allowed to force their beliefs on someone else. if that's your common denominator. even though you are religious and hunted isn't anymore. after listening to him i'm not so sure. that's the local it was a vocal. last night and i still have to come out i set myself up. then we're in france the country a vault it was so critical of the church and religion. supposed these thinkers hadn't been so courageous in taking on religion etc they didn't destroy religion or
christianity but they brought about the separation of church and state is that when we achieve this goal in islam namely that religion and freedom a mutually exclusive religion and democracy are not mutually exclusive then critics like me will no longer be needed there's no point in mild or gentle criticism of islam is how i used to work in construction some people are given the job is tearing down old buildings and others are there to put a new ones in the place i belong to the wrecking crew. that's been seen. oh it was. the golden age of andalusia for seven hundred years islam was the dominant
political religious social and cultural force in this part of europe it's said that muslims jews and christians live cheer and harmony with each other. quite impressive so the the arabs have better buildings in the turks so i don't know why you always do this church bashing it hurts me. that's great now you're affected to. this place represents hope i'm not thinking of this utopia of jews christians and muslims living in peace and so on i'm thinking about the idea of creating something together and being curious at first so some and so shuffle. exercise i was mostly when muslims were open minded and curious when they translated the
works of the greeks they translated huge amounts of us a few when philosophy knowledge and chemistry were as important as religion and identity they achieved so much. and that's what's missing in the islamic world today. does islam belong to europe it's a historical fact that islam was deeply rooted in this part of spain for centuries . how do muslims with spanish roots live. during my research i read that spaniards in granada. in particular have adopted the muslim faith how are they different to muslims who grew up outside of europe. what i noticed right away was the manner in which the women wear their headscarves the muslim women were predominantly young and fashion conscious almost stylish the
community which is celebrating the highest islamic festival the sacrifice feast is part of the mother of the two in world movement an islamic movement founded by a scottish actor in the one nine hundred seventy s. how do they manage to reconcile the divine order with european values. by meeting basheer custom now to find out. he's an e-mail and director of the granada mosque foundation. in your bus you write yes now i looked in the eyes of my dear nice to meet you welcome to another thank you it was not hard to find the mosque because i still really would be here great and very grand mosque like it's presented in the newspaper but it's very discreet and very actually all the building has to go with the rest of the houses of the neighborhood so it has to be discreet but it is big and significance it's
the first mosque built by spanish muslims after five centers so who is coming to the mosque actually i mean what kind of muslims are these all kinds really it's an open mosque of course it's it's an open place of worship and prayer and so all muslims are welcome. mainly the muslims living in other which are partly spanish muslims and partly in the rooms mainly from morocco in north africa and europe and then of course we have many many visitors because of the location you've seen the views that we have here that's incredible view so from yeah we're looking into the islamic heritage of along with rightly i like to say this is a past of islam you know londoners and this is the present for seventy five nineteen seventy five there were no muslims in spain whatsoever it was only after the death of franco general franco that muslims started to come to spain and spanish people started to embrace islam is there
a possibility of european islam of course there is there there is already you opinion islam. i think i am a proof of european islam on there are many many like me i'm already second generation my children or third generation of european muslims i think muslims in europe need a strong european muslim identity european and muslim some people find it very difficult. to have to unite these two things so they think you are either european which means you have to eat or can go to parties have sex with as many girls as you can otherwise you have to be a muslim god long beard to go to the mosque every day and night is. in your head and just be very pious and pray a lot i think you can combine the two things without going to an extreme. you have you can have a good relation with your god believe in your god pray every day be a good muslim and at the same time you don't have to be trade your culture i read
spanish writers i watch spanish cinema and and i go to theater with my kids to choose his buddies plays as you maybe know i'm doing this thing on our own bandai's will have a customer i just want to know why he couldn't be here actually today with me we tried to be very open this is this is not the thing the thing is to criticize islam to be honest it is not acceptable for us if someone criticizes islam we would do not accept it because we believe it's it's the last form of worship that god revealed to the human beings you can criticize muslims or actions of the muslims or way of life or a way of understanding islam which we even criticize we muslims say these particular people have a wrong understanding of islam they have a wrong understanding or of doing things in their way the prophet you wanted them to do it. you can we can accept these kind of critics but not to criticize someone
criticize islam. as such. so he's allowed to criticize other muslims for their stance and incorrect interpretations but nobody is allowed to criticize him for what might be is incorrect interpretations i think in his view he's not interpreting the religion in . correctly because he is convinced he has the true religion in his heart and you will have as i told him you have sympathies towards sufism and that you emphasize the spiritual component a lot of what is it really confident and also the other two ones this is i miss the still out that's the sad thing is that the spiritual people we place our hopes in a closed off or not really open to dialogue. oh i missed this if i can't using counters for their own propaganda and they prefer not to talk and not start. this is the hour.
so that's it have we become wiser how mad i feel i have. just gone what do you think. i kept hearing the phrase the true islamic i can't say what the true islam is to me it's just words. what's a good muslim how often did we ask back question is it someone who prays five times a day even if it's not just the fundamentalists who say that ordinary muslims use the phrase is good muslim and the true islam. a good muslim true islam they're not liberating themselves from these expressions that's the problem that's why i still don't believe islam can be reformed but i do believe many muslims can
become a man's a patriot i believe in change and hope that this change will take place with very few victims but then again. start to. think about i ask myself how our form of islam could even happen would that require a muslim arch in the water the thing that needs changing is the attitude to religion that brings us back to the people. a person cannot reform god or his word but a person can change their attitude to the scriptures and i think it's important to permit doubt. how can these doubts be accepted if critics aren't permitted from the outset once when i am going to colonise i know and witness that they should make peace with their critics everyone should talk first and thus yes quite criticism must be allowed you don't have to agree but you have to be able to disagree here.
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