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tv   Close up - Masouds List - From IS Victim to Terrorist Hunter  Deutsche Welle  October 18, 2017 5:15am-5:46am CEST

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when the history books are brought to life. maybe the stories they're in though will get a rewrite. of the story of the russian revolution. from the perspective of writers thinkers and hug artists. what did it feel like to live in times of revolution and the people. thanks tonight to the russian art revolution. nine hundred seventy the real october starting october twenty fifth d w o.
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and. the war in syria. caught up in the middle of it all is a young kurdish video journalist. spent two years documenting the atrocities committed by the so-called islamic state. until he became a victim himself. thanks
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. three something. he said. killed only just made it in early twenty sixteen he and his mother came to germany to join his sister and brothers they used the balkan route passing through turkey and southern europe shortly afterwards that route was closed i thought that the session of leaving because of some security reasons i was obliged to do that like any other person was
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a life to leave his whole city this country. it all began in syria for two years killed filmed and photographed the conflict for. the first regime of bashar al assad move to put down a popular uprising. later the so-called islamic state came on the scene setting up a brutal regime in parts of syria and iraq during this film we're using masuda kill zone footage from syria. we couldn't believe that in the twenty first century or of this time that something could happen a big a big area could be attacked by isis and thousands of people how it could be that they would be kidnapped and we made some pictures in the beginning and later we
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stopped covering and we started to help the people. in august twenty fourth team thousands of iraqi kurds most of the muzi days fled to syria they were leaving their homeland in center where i asked was carrying out a genocide our people have been killed by isis a woman lake is in the current this will it be sold in the slaves market so we are very i mean suffered from all these things so we don't want these things to happen to any other people in the world for that we are fighting these cases in the summer of twenty fourteen or kill was just twenty one years old. they were talking about the first massacre suffices here in the beginning of august how how did they attack them how did they started to cut the head off the old woman at the head of the kids to bring their kids into two pieces here and the kidnapping of a young woman to leave her so use them as a sex slaves. they blame all the world because let there be an easy target for this
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kind of wall of monsters the young syrians spent his early childhood income and now a kurdish past june in northern syria he lived with his parents and four siblings as he explains in a book about his experiences published in germany. we had a good life in coming on the border with turkey where i was born in one thousand nine hundred three in one thousand nine hundred nine lived to damascus where i completed elementary and high school. then moved to aleppo to study english literature but he could not remain untouched by political developments his family won't go. the landowner's many cards in syria and neighboring countries are calling for an independent state he began working for a kurdish underground newspaper the conflict with the regime in damascus on the one hand and the oppression of the kurds by neighboring turkey on the other dominate it is well view that the political situation is different because it is the you know
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depend. on the free syrian army and they don't listen to the kurdish people the time and the administration we found that in two thousand and fourteen they were against it because that everybody there working with turkey everybody is this is to turkey to cut that to saudi arabia. but then the kurds found themselves facing a new opponent and a new threat. in northern syria the kurdish p.k. was fighting the so-called islamic state it actually started in twenty twelve when the militants in syria were still fighting under the banner of al nusra auntie's. for twenty months massoud a kill continued working in syria for a kurdish television network based in the city of irbil in neighboring iraq.
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he worked with a kurdish reporter farhad hamas. the two of them often visited shaikh mady to harm hardy of the arab tribe of. an ally of the kurdish y p g militia. but in syria's complex war it wasn't always possible to know who was a friend and who was a phone. that must dangerous was covering the front lines the front door lies against isis at that time the kurdish forces there why p.g. and even the peshmerga they didn't have the heavy weapons at that time. and going in there with no safety it was completely dangerous. but at the end of twenty fourteen events took a different turn things started looking up for the cancer and that arab allies.
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i didn't know that this summer two thousand and fourteen would be the end for me i didn't throw that because that summer was like any other month full of dangerous it was winter cold we were going covering the nearly five kurdish cities every month and. in late twenty fourteen the united states announced it would be supplying weapons to the kurds and that arab allies in syria and iraq to assist them in fighting i.a.s. germany provided antitank rockets to the kurdish peshmerga in iraq. massoud now believed i asked could indeed be defeated. what happened next was not what he expected. going on that dangerous road at that there which we wanted to do that interview it was a dangerous road which we were driving. and i couldn't
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expect that one day that will happen the team we're going to visit to shake hands his arab colleagues as they had done so many times before my student his colleague ha ha ha my shot then lost footage together on december sixth twenty fourteen at six am. i was nine days later they walked into my trap. my workmate for had waked me up to tell me look who are these people they were nearly ten metres far away of us their car was stopping in the road and in that direction to the iceland and i get shocked to see them all wearing their masks and i as militants appear to have had a tip off they had strayed deep into kurdish territory to wait for them but had
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homo and mustard are killed were captured. the longest time was in iraq up present. it was around one hundred days it was a football star and this made city central for augusta to hear of course. the so-called islamic state appeared well organized thank you. it's like a prison i present and this paper had been formed by an isis member he was from tunisia and that was a national diety prison then came on so tara my suit was in six different ions prisons in all. thank.
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they tortured us with. with every with every instrument they can torture us. they started first of all to investigate and ask questions and during the answering they started to tortured me beating me by sticks on my legs on my back slapping me on the face pulling my hair and every day or every two day and sometimes twice a day it was depending on how much the prison guard is happy at that day or how much he is angry i can't for about their eyes the only thing i remember there i said i want to get the vitamin but them all the time i want for that in.
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the business of the word your heart both iraq and syria are known historically for using the most savage torture methods and techniques and those doing the torturing a mostly from iraq and syria. is a puzzle in common those to me in the hopes of they have served this army officers or prison guards and they know how to inflict pain on human beings. can you believe that the third joining was a routine and saw so such a kind of something should be done sometimes in the day which they didn't torture any prisoner. we're feeling that something is missing something weird is happening . yeah. so that the only the only it's. the only way you are told
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to to endure that was put to live with it. and as you know feelings change your values and the whole core of who you want to talk to seek to destroy the personality the individual had before they were captured it's very deliberate was. the i asked prisons were a living how. think you smell of the cells prisoner so and they were screaming during that cursory. some prison a small minded others were freed managed to smuggle a message on to his parents. at this point he was still together with his colleague . there was a hole in the wall and we were using this hole to talk with each other and to to
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make some fun recording this whole sky we were feeling that to that i'm not alone and he was feeling that he's not alone we are still together and the war stays as i told you it was the days in which they let us. put us anyone in each other each one of us you know in a sale so we didn't know what will happen next of that and. you know it was tough moments. all the while the kurdish t.v. broadcaster was working to locate its two john honest with us even knowing if they were still alive. in january twenty fifteen most ridicule was placed in a cell with a man who would lay. to remind him of his time in prison masood was convinced that his fellow prisoner was actually an i.a.s. supporter. he was confident he wouldn't be in prison long as he had good
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connections. he talked a lot i stayed silent i knew it would be dangerous to reveal anything to a man like that. is indeed known for locking up its own people as punishment for minor offenses. yes wanted to build a totalitarian state prisons and torture are part of the methods used in totalitarianism and it was. he was part of isis and i knew he would do his duty and immediately report back anything that might incriminate us. helpless i listen to his heroic stories until i pretended to be tired and turned away to the war. well i mean this is a very typical pattern i asked of the news is spies in the prisons. i met many tens of isis members there isis prisoners they were
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isis members who were telling miss their what they want and how do they act and they were finding all this killing and all this. torturing they were find it useful . in march twenty fifteen miles and saw his colleague fall hard for the last time he left rockhouse football stadium for other prisons fall and. he made friends with another fellow sufferer haji issa from the northern kurdish city of cobain. he did in the get afraid of isis i thought he was later.
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i had the chance although the chance to see him in a video before being cured isis published a propaganda video killing him. the militants even exploited children and their propaganda. thank. his eyes pulled me that he told me that i felt he's talking to me telling me. and here i am. and i hope one day you do something to to vanish to a story i says massoud photoshop the picture of haji is removing his captors in this image he's not a victim but a hero. thank
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you. one day quite unexpectedly light came into my life on september fifteenth twenty fifteen. and i had man called out my name along with seven y. p. g. fighters. they shoved us into the back of a van which drove down a bumpy track into the night we were thrown all over the place and i could taste the dust and sand of the desert on my lips. were there killed was exchanged for high as terrorists including four from north africa who were being held by the kurds. after two hundred eighty days in i asked captivity his parents came to collect him from the kurdish why p.j. the militia was keen to parade their success and publish the first photo of massoud in freedom. he was the first kurdish civilian to be freed from my ass captivity in
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syria. his colleague for heart was released a few weeks later it was a defeat for islamic state. change of scene but the end of twenty fifteen when hundreds of thousands of syrians were heading to europe must kill decided to join them the risk of falling into iran's hands again was just too great he chose the balkan wrote ending up in germany a journey fraught with risk now when i think about it. i feel myself stupid a little bit i still myself that. after i had another chance to leave again i put myself and i put my life again in danger. for them all better than to discover that on arriving in europe islamic state was here to. buy our supporters launched numerous attacks on european cities targeting berlin and december twenty sixth game. of course they are here where you know they are in all
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of europe otherwise what happened in the. beginning of the last new year when the man who. his card killed many people even just before many beers in paris also in france it happened and even in many places in the world it happened in belgium so many attacks from that there's now it's coming to europe with the influx of refugees from northern syria in twenty fourteen twenty fifteen brought many members of militant organizations to germany there were isis members and others to . kill says the very same supporters that hearing counted in various prisons in syria and now here in europe. he tracked down most of them through the internet. you know only twenty sixteen he passed through the process of being registered as
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a refugee in germany he was just one of hundreds of thousands no one was interested in his information on ins. you know it wasn't like you expect you know they then i thought that maybe they would be curious to know more but. it wasn't like it was just like a procedure and it should be done and they would call the next what do they do i give it to everybody in europe but that time in european nobody listen to me i say they will come back with more experience as being the people in killing they will not care about anything and this is what's happening for him into a corner and for beginners of the n.s.a. affair and questions over germany's cooperation with u.s. intelligence our main office for questioning was shut down wind and of course it's
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very difficult once you've lost that capacity you know whether you're talking about my office or the german foreign intelligence service to rebuild that oil for japan . we didn't have that ability to start from cold. and we could. so what happened to those i asked supporters from syria who came to europe finally in the autumn of twenty sixteen massoud decided to go to the police force or published his book to spread the word. for. they are not refugees they are criminals. people people who had hold people who had. radical groups. islamic radical groups over people who had their crimes against the civilians in syria or iraq. this is also said to be active in germany's refugee shelters. it is there
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a very good at what they do they act almost like social workers they take care of the people who translate for them they are there for them when they have concerns and at the same time they're indoctrinating them. and skip the corporate there is the group of i.a.s. terrorists who have come to europe with the task of conducting terror attacks. and but then there's another group of i asked fighters who perhaps just want to remove themselves from the fighting. they're so dangerous because they totally believe the ideology even if they haven't been commissioned to carry out an attack at this time the trend. in recent during long sleepless nights i must tell drew up a list of suspects it's my suits list i have a source from the kurdish forces and other members of other islamic radical groups i met in the prison including the prisoner. who was so confident that he'd soon be freed. i was shocked how could
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a radical man like him be in europe i checked his facebook account dozens of his friends were long beards and their facebook pages were full of raw. posts about jihad. initially he even posted his address on the internet the man who massoud akil believes is him by a supporter now apparently lives in switzerland we decided to find out for us sounds. weak enough for now it's just as few and firmly believe that in many cases this information from refugees is genuine and reliable and needs to be investigated so there is of course also information which we believe is incorrect or just can't be proven and really doesn't. and sure enough we find the man in switzerland the refugee that massoud says he knows from the prison in dandy we decide to question
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him. if you've ever been an isis person can do this really that. you have this. shit that should. any can you. believe there were i asked people from her saka who kidnapped me. because i used to take part in demonstrations against the regime at the end of. this week. to our surprise he claims he was first tortured by the assad regime so is the man in fact a victim i'm not a militant we confront masuda kill with our recorded interview. is that realistic at all. defines what the man says to be totally illogical and then phone not credible why would i say this punish him for opposing the regime of president assad
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. he said tell him that people are there is because i refused hold the gun in the demonstrations against isis was when the bombing we believe well over eighty percent of the tips from refugees are reliable and guns a lot of the information provided by refugees are incorrect and simply aimed at defaming others so you have to treat these accusations very carefully. so we tested massoud kills information once more. there are people saying that you gave coordinates of kurdish settlements and eye socket to isis is that true. did. he shakes his head that you were sure that he was nice this guy wasn't hope he was
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isis and that oakum that you were so sure he was talking about. my eyes don't think it's when i see him he said i just remember so i believe myself what i see and what does he tell me talk about what they need talk about. the refugee and switzerland has since deleted his profile on the internet. then he and often in. a few years ago many young i asked you how this would post photos online where they would probably talk about the violent acts they'd committed. i was very helpful for the german authorities when they were later carrying out their investigations. but the young jihad is now are much more reticent about giving out information it's indeed your decision or does it surprise god like nine four months on nobody have this kind of evidence which the authorities need. we can't as i told you we can't bring their fingerprints from there to here you know but what we have. we have the names thinks they
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did the dates of of of course they did where they were at that time when they were in syria in which radical little bit is a she and they were working for so we have this kind of information. the debate over the value of information provided by refugees is only just beginning. but one thing is clear germany urgently needs some of that information in the fight against terror in europe and will have to stop listening to the new arrivals far more closely.
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